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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    My point is that the uk has such a long history of intense human use that there is no such place there.
    Agree, but who cares? The world changes, with or without our help, and it seems crazy to want to stop that. I can think of trails I rode years ago that are now gone, claimed back by the trees, but I'm not short of trails.

    It's like the selfie generation you see taking videos at rock concerts. Just enjoy the moment rather than trying to hold onto it.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuyuna View Post
    All true. I’m sure I could ride trails in the US just like what Pig is picturing in Scotland but I’d likely have to drive a thousand miles or more to do it. “Wild and unspoiled” in Scotland is apparently far more accessible and convenient than it is in the US.
    Actually, millions upon millions (upon millions) of people in the US live in places with easy access to much more 'wild and unspoiled' terrain than that. Hell, I'm an hour from Boston and we've got a documented 220 acre stand of old growth forest on one of our local hills.
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  3. #103
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    This thread about Scotland or jerks riding a thawed out trail that probably was never marked as a closed trail to begin with? Mr. Pig, you got a target on your back?

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Actually, millions upon millions (upon millions) of people in the US live in places with easy access to much more 'wild and unspoiled' terrain than that. Hell, I'm an hour from Boston and we've got a documented 220 acre stand of old growth forest on one of our local hills.
    My point was the deforested rolling hills of Scotland..I've seen places in the US that look very much like what Pig posted. But not anywhere around here and frankly that kind of terrain isn't appealing to me for riding a bicycle. A)...I don't want to drive even 100 miles to go mountain biking and B) the 30-50 miles of groomed and maintained purpose-built mountain bike trails local to me are all that I aspire to. I can admire to beauty of the Scottish highlands, but really, I'd rather hike it than ride a bicycle on it.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuyuna View Post
    My point was the deforested rolling hills of Scotland..I've seen places in the US that look very much like what Pig posted. But not anywhere around here and frankly that kind of terrain isn't appealing to me for riding a bicycle. A)...I don't want to drive even 100 miles to go mountain biking and B) the 30-50 miles of groomed and maintained purpose-built mountain bike trails local to me are all that I aspire to. I can admire to beauty of the Scottish highlands, but really, I'd rather hike it than ride a bicycle on it.
    Groomed and maintained can be fun, but it's also really cool to ride things beyond the 'packaged' MTB experience IMO. I could never just ride the same 30-50 miles over and over and over. Luckily, that's not an issue around here.
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  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Groomed and maintained can be fun, but it's also really cool to ride things beyond the 'packaged' MTB experience IMO. I could never just ride the same 30-50 miles over and over and over. Luckily, that's not an issue around here.
    Luckily for me, those 30-50 miles completely fulfill my mountain biking expectations.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Ha ha, you got me ;0) But here's the thing. Absolute size doesn't matter beyond a certain point as there is only so much you can see or access in a reasonable time frame. When you stand on top of a hill and can only see other hills in all directions it doesn't really matter what's beyond that.

    I doubt you have anywhere that is the size of Scotland and has more trails? You could spend your life on the trails in Scotland and not cover them all. And, we will let you spend your life on them, even in the winter if you want to! And if you want to make new lines or trails, that's fine too.
    I like your optimism on this subject, but you really just don't seem to be able to relate to anything that isn't Scotland. You also don't seem to grasp the ways in which Scotland is unlike the US.

    The state of Virginia (we can drop off the coastal parts to make it Scotland sized) alone has so many trails some don't see use basically ever, you could definitely spend a lifetime and not see them all. Same goes for most states. Hell, Rocky Mountain National Park is only 800 square miles and has enough trail to keep one busy for many, many years if not a lifetime.

    Again I appreciate your optimistic outlook and it sounds like it works great for Scotland (which makes me very curious to someday visit) but you'd be well served to better recognize the ways in which Scotland is unique and the ways in which it is not before stating your personal experiences as universal.

    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    You needn't worry, there are endless outdoor spaces available in the US. The internet blows everything out of proportion. I could roam the mountains for weeks and not see another soul if I wanted, and walk wherever I please. You just have to get more than a couple miles in from any trailhead. Some people enjoy b!tching and moaning.
    I think this highlights part of the disconnect here... Walking/riding off trail isn't the issue we are discussing, at least initially, it was originally creating new trails or sections of trail. My local land manager (to my absolute shock) once told me that they cannot stop people from walking/riding off trail. They can only limit creation of trails.

    If you are off trail completely then that's one thing, but if you're on a trail yet choosing to walk/ride new lines every now and again that's very different. The first is very unlikely to leave any disturbance unless you use the same exact path regularly, while the other is almost certain to create a significant disturbance as others notice your path and start to use it as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Agree, but who cares? The world changes, with or without our help, and it seems crazy to want to stop that. I can think of trails I rode years ago that are now gone, claimed back by the trees, but I'm not short of trails.


    It's like the selfie generation you see taking videos at rock concerts. Just enjoy the moment rather than trying to hold onto it.

    That's a pretty dangerous way to see things and if that's really how you feel then I can see why we don't see eye to eye. Man has a unique ability to demolish natural landscapes that no other species can match... I know shortcutting a trail is a far cry from clear cutting a forest, but if that's your attitude then you probably don't care much about either.

    (Though I totally agree on concerts... The videos people take are only 'useful' to try and brag to people how great of a time they're having, but they aren't - they're too busy taking video. I think that falls under the 'bragging on the internet is more important than actually doing stuff' category more than any conservation discussion.)

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDwayyo View Post
    I know shortcutting a trail is a far cry from clear cutting a forest, but if that's your attitude then you probably don't care much about either.
    Do you swat flies? I assume that if you do you would happily murder humans too?

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Do you swat flies? I assume that if you do you would happily murder humans too?
    You broadly stated 'the world changes, with or without our help, and it seems crazy to want to stop that' then went on to provide an incredibly off-topic example with the concert goers bit... So whatever assumptions I made are your fault, not mine.

    I stand behind my statement, though. If you don't think trying to limit disturbance when we are out in the woods is important (if for no other reason than self-serving motivation related to advocacy at least) then we won't see eye to eye on a great many things.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDwayyo View Post
    ... So whatever assumptions I made are your fault, not mine.
    That's brilliant! :0) Very, very special.

  11. #111
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    Alright boys, let’s just agree to disagree. In other words Pig, TheDwayyo is right. LOL
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    who cares? The world changes, with or without our help.
    The age old freeze/thaw existential conundrum. I like it.

    With that reasoning why get out of bed in the morning? Eventually the sun will expand engulfing the earth and nothing will have ever mattered. At all.

    Setting has significance because it's all we know. I view place and time as the culmination of everything that ever happened leading to this moment. What we do matters observable or not. Insignificance is not possible.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    With that reasoning why get out of bed in the morning? Eventually the sun will expand engulfing the earth and nothing will have ever mattered. At all.

    Just read today that now the fear is we will collide with another galaxy, get launched into space, reactivate the Milkyway's blackhole and get sucked into that. Granted that's in 2 billion years give or take a few million.


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  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    That's brilliant! :0) Very, very special.
    Is the smiley face a pig? If so, that's adorable!

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    Insignificance is not possible.
    You've never heard of Justin Bieber?

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    You've never heard of Justin Bieber?
    Touche
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    You've never heard of Justin Bieber?
    What's your name? I'm guessing it isn't nearly as recognizable as his, which even you apparently know. Funny to call him insignificant given that fact.

    What's this thread about again?

  18. #118
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    I will say having spent time in the highlands of Scotland it does feel like wilderness despite the amount of human interaction and to be honest feels more natural and wild then anywhere I have been in my corner of the US (the southeast or up and down the east coast). And I am extremely jealous of the land access that I have seen in the UK when I have visited (my dad is from there originally and so I have been quite a few times to visit family).

    But that being said, I am pretty sure Mr. Pig has never dealt with southeastern clay and seen how hard it dries.
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  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93EXCivic View Post
    But that being said, I am pretty sure Mr. Pig has never dealt with southeastern clay and seen how hard it dries.
    That is obvious. Cement like with ruts going in all directional angles is no fun keeping your front wheel from following one. Peat moss is a bit softer.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  20. #120
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    The '64 Skylark had a regular differential, which, anyone who's been stuck in the mud in Alabama knows, you step on the gas, one tire spins, the other tire does nothing.
    ITMFA

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by the one ring View Post
    The '64 Skylark had a regular differential, which, anyone who's been stuck in the mud in Alabama knows, you step on the gas, one tire spins, the other tire does nothing.
    That's why you learn to use the brake pedal.

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  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by the one ring View Post
    The '64 Skylark had a regular differential, which, anyone who's been stuck in the mud in Alabama knows, you step on the gas, one tire spins, the other tire does nothing.
    Is that it?

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctxcrossx View Post
    Is that it?
    No there's more!

    (Man, I loved her in that scene.)
    ITMFA

  24. #124
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    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

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