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  1. #1
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    Engineeering Decisions That Make You Shake Your Head

    Over the past two weeks I have been tinkering with cable actuated dropper posts on a couple of my bikes. I also ordered a race face aeffect dropper lever and the whole experience left me shaking my head.

    To me the cable end of the dropper post is a real head scratcher. Both posts I worked on were similar in that you had to cut the cable at the perfect length then use a small set screw to hold the cable end which all slipped into a knuckle on the bottom of the post.

    why not us the end of a shifter cable and the allow me to cut the end at the lever? I’d love to see the designer of this install one, as to me it is more difficult than it should be.

    also the race face dropper was so poorly engineered. The bracket holding the lever gap had no “ channel” for the lever to sit in, so you had to tighten it so tight I (not surprisingly) stripped the bolt. Thankfully Jensen gave me a credit, and I bought a better lever at my lbs.

    there must be other poorly engineered stuff out there.
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    The real question is why anyone is using a mechanically actuated dropper post at all. We don't actuate our brakes with a cable, so why would we want to actuate a dropper with one?

  3. #3
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    Do people modulate their dropper like they modulate their brakes? Why over-complicate it with hydraulics instead of a simple cable that performs the on-off function just fine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David R View Post
    Do people modulate their dropper like they modulate their brakes? Why over-complicate it with hydraulics instead of a simple cable that performs the on-off function just fine.
    Sure. That's why there's a speed adjust function and it isn't just a switch to raise the dropper.

    Also, a cable wears out. Fluid doesn't have any wearable parts. Certainly, all posts need maintenance, but there's no reason to create a wearable part in the activator.

    If you want to talk about innovation, mechanical activation is a dinosaur. The only real argument left is cost; you'll notice the lower end builds of virtually every bicycle will have a mechanically activated dropper, but almost all of the top builds use the same one, and it's not mechanical.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by twodownzero View Post
    The real question is why anyone is using a mechanically actuated dropper post at all. We don't actuate our brakes with a cable, so why would we want to actuate a dropper with one?

    Cable works fine for gears so why not a dropper?
    I brake for stinkbugs

  6. #6
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    I have a cable dropper for my fat bike. It gets to -25c in the winter here, and I don’t want to spend $400 plus canadian for draft my winter rig as it does not see the mileage that the summer rig does.

    I’d really love to get a magura wireless dropper.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by twodownzero View Post
    The only real argument left is cost; you'll notice the lower end builds of virtually every bicycle will have a mechanically activated dropper, but almost all of the top builds use the same one, and it's not mechanical.
    I just upgraded to a Reverb but ditched the hydraulic line for a Wolftooth cable conversion before installing it. Hydraulic is an unnecessary complication for me, even if it's only once a year I have to remove my seatpost.

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    Quote Originally Posted by twodownzero View Post
    Sure. That's why there's a speed adjust function and it isn't just a switch to raise the dropper.

    Also, a cable wears out. Fluid doesn't have any wearable parts. Certainly, all posts need maintenance, but there's no reason to create a wearable part in the activator.

    If you want to talk about innovation, mechanical activation is a dinosaur. The only real argument left is cost; you'll notice the lower end builds of virtually every bicycle will have a mechanically activated dropper, but almost all of the top builds use the same one, and it's not mechanical.
    Reliability. My current bike has a reverb dropper with the hydraulic plunger. Had to end my ride early last weekend as the plunger stuck down and the seatpost stuck mid stroke. Never had and issues with my prior cable actuated posts....

    May try a cable conversion or replacing the post with a cable driven post. Prefer simplicity and reliability...

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    Quote Originally Posted by David R View Post
    I just upgraded to a Reverb but ditched the hydraulic line for a Wolftooth cable conversion before installing it. Hydraulic is an unnecessary complication for me, even if it's only once a year I have to remove my seatpost.
    How are you liking the wolf toth cable conversion? Does the post still travel as smoothly?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky Mtn View Post
    ...Both posts I worked on were similar in that you had to cut the cable at the perfect length then use a small set screw to hold the cable end which all slipped into a knuckle on the bottom of the post...why not us the end of a shifter cable and the allow me to cut the end at the lever? ...
    The Fox Transfer and Bontrager Drop Line seatpost have the cut end at the lever and I think there are also others like that. There may be some legacy thinking in doing it the other way, as, of course, shifting and cable brakes have their cut ends at the derailleurs and calipers.

    I currently have Reverb and a Drop Line posts and have ridden others. In my experience, cables work fine, are easier to install and are more reliable. I haven't weighted them, but I'd bet they're lighter too.
    Do the math.

  11. #11
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    I think the main reason for use of hydraulics in brakes is not some reliability advantage (ultimately there are as many parts and more precision parts in an hydraulic system than cable), but because of the mechanical advantage that hydraulics supply.

    The cable end thing is fairly inexplicable though. I have to wonder if part of it is that many of these things are probably designed in Asia, and their dominant mode of design is imitation, so, like brakes and derailleurs, they put the adjustment or free end opposite the lever/actuator.

  12. #12
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    I installed a new race face dropper on my wife's bike, and agree that it took forever to get to work correctly. It was extremely frustrating. I installed a PNW Rainer on my bike and it took all of a few minutes as the fixed end was at the post. So much less insane

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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    The Fox Transfer and Bontrager Drop Line seatpost have the cut end at the lever and I think there are also others like that. There may be some legacy thinking in doing it the other way, as, of course, shifting and cable brakes have their cut ends at the derailleurs and calipers.

    I currently have Reverb and a Drop Line posts and have ridden others. In my experience, cables work fine, are easier to install and are more reliable. I haven't weighted them, but I'd bet they're lighter too.
    Wolftooth has it on the lever as well.

  14. #14
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    On my Bike Yoke Revive, the cable "head," "ferrule" or whatever it's called goes at the bottom of the seatpost while the cut end of the cable goes at the lever (I'm using a Wolftooth lever). Setup is simple & fast.

    I like my hydraulic brakes. One the things I like about them is they aren't internally routed. I don't think I'd want to own any hydraulically operated component that utilizes internal routing.

    Also I can mix or match components with a cable (as noted in my first paragraph -- Revive with Wolftooth). I imagine hydraulics would require brand/model consistency.
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    The 9point8 Fall line is also now designed to work that way (uses the wolftooth lever, just rebranded)

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Cable works fine for gears so why not a dropper?
    I can't wait for hydraulic shifting! Or pneumatic?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by twodownzero View Post
    The real question is why anyone is using a mechanically actuated dropper post at all. We don't actuate our brakes with a cable, so why would we want to actuate a dropper with one?
    Boy, talk about not listening to your mother and the advice she gave - when she told you it's better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you're a fool, than to open your mouth and prove them right

    I've been on my "low end" 9point8 FallLine, cable actuated post now for 2+ years, never had to replace the cable, was easy as pie to set it up, only ever had to do a main collar lube/service a couple times, no wiggle/wobble/play like many other posts have when brand new, especially the one you're referencing your ignorance to, could not believe the amount of play they have new, unacceptable to me.
    The reason all those pre-built bikes, from the big brands come with that dropper is because of the price the get them at, that's it. Anyone with any real knowledge about bike parts, building a custom bike from the frame up will hardly use a Reverb because of what a PITA they are in terms of bleeding and the amount of play they have new, or if they do, they switch it to be cable actuated.


    Quote Originally Posted by twodownzero View Post
    Sure. That's why there's a speed adjust function and it isn't just a switch to raise the dropper.

    Also, a cable wears out. Fluid doesn't have any wearable parts. Certainly, all posts need maintenance, but there's no reason to create a wearable part in the activator.

    If you want to talk about innovation, mechanical activation is a dinosaur. The only real argument left is cost; you'll notice the lower end builds of virtually every bicycle will have a mechanically activated dropper, but almost all of the top builds use the same one, and it's not mechanical.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    I can't wait for hydraulic shifting! Or pneumatic?
    I know this is tongue in cheek but someone should post links to those items so that others know that they actually do exist.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by twodownzero View Post
    Sure. That's why there's a speed adjust function and it isn't just a switch to raise the dropper.

    Also, a cable wears out. Fluid doesn't have any wearable parts. Certainly, all posts need maintenance, but there's no reason to create a wearable part in the activator.

    If you want to talk about innovation, mechanical activation is a dinosaur. The only real argument left is cost; you'll notice the lower end builds of virtually every bicycle will have a mechanically activated dropper, but almost all of the top builds use the same one, and it's not mechanical.
    Riiight. Take a look at any of the Reverb threads to see just how reliable those are. The top builds spec that dropper because they can get it cheaply along with the drivetrain. There is no quality consideration there.
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  20. #20
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    I bought a Brand-X dropper with external actuation. The mechanism uses a shift cable end on the post and you cut and attach the other end at the handlebar. I agree that this design makes more sense.

    There were not a lot of options for a dropper lever that allow you to clamp the cable there, and the one that came with my post sucked. Wolftooth makes a nice one with this design but it's pricey for something so simple. I ended up buying a Southpaw lever and put an Odssey Knarp on it.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    Riiight. Take a look at any of the Reverb threads to see just how reliable those are.
    I have not dealt with a Reverb, but I hear they get a lot of hate. Is this because hydraulic is the wrong application for this or is it because of RockShox poor execution of the idea?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    I have not dealt with a Reverb, but I hear they get a lot of hate. Is this because hydraulic is the wrong application for this or is it because of RockShox poor execution of the idea?
    It's a ridiculously finicky setup, with easy to leak parts, no fluid reserve, and a marginally functional plunger style actuator.
    Combine that with a questionably durable post itself, and you have a delicate balance between operation or failure. All of this on a mountain bike, which is not usually ridden or handled delicately!

    It's Rockshox, no reason to be surprised by that.


    Speaking of "engineering buffoonery", there is one on the Reverb. You know it's questionable at best when the service manual officially states the proper method to remove a part is to take 7-8 medium zip ties and jam them into the post until the wedge themselves. Then pull up on the zip ties to remove the IFP.

  23. #23
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    Another engineering bit of stupidity?
    Ever look at a Ford?
    Why do you jam the oil filter in the least accessible place in existence. Then, when you finally grow a second and third elbow to contort yourself and luckily DO get the filter removed, oil goes all over the place since the filter is horizontal and it doesn't drain, or trap itself.


    My 05 Tacoma had the filter on the top of the engine, and had a littlr catch pan built into the side to collect what little oil would drip out of the filter. The filter was open side down, so it drained most of the oil out of the filter. Then, there was a rubber plug you could pull to drain the oil catch into a container.
    Best designed thing I've ever seen.

  24. #24
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    I think the hydraulic remote on the Reverb takes the cake for engineering run amok on a bike. Totally unnecessary and nothing but pain and frustration for the end user. The Crankbros wheels spoke design is also a head scratcher.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by DethWshBkr View Post
    Another engineering bit of stupidity?
    Ever look at a Ford?
    Why do you jam the oil filter in the least accessible place in existence. ...

    Then, there was a rubber plug you could pull to drain the oil catch into a container.
    Best designed thing I've ever seen.
    My old Nissan was the same way - spilled oil all over every time the filter was changed. It fell onto the starter motor. I had a mechanic tell me he was pretty sure that was the cause of tons of other electrical problems he'd seen (although, to be fair, that 94 Pathfinder was pretty bombproof for the 20 years I drove it).

    My new Subaru has a filter that empties back into the engine block when you remove it. All cars should be that way.

    I never heard of the Wolf Tooth Remote dropper switch. I'll probably be buying one soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher View Post
    I know this is tongue in cheek but someone should post links to those items so that others know that they actually do exist.
    Good idea. Someone really needs to do this.

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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by idividebyzero View Post
    I think the hydraulic remote on the Reverb takes the cake for engineering run amok on a bike. Totally unnecessary and nothing but pain and frustration for the end user.
    Agreed. One of the best upgrades to my bike was ditching the Reverb hydro button thingy and replacing it with a wolf tooth cable actuated lever.

  29. #29
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    Suggest this be moved to the dropper post forum

  30. #30
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    I think a hydraulic shifter would be great if it doesn't have to index

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by DethWshBkr View Post

    Speaking of "engineering buffoonery", there is one on the Reverb. You know it's questionable at best when the service manual officially states the proper method to remove a part is to take 7-8 medium zip ties and jam them into the post until the wedge themselves. Then pull up on the zip ties to remove the IFP.
    Good lord.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Cable works fine for gears so why not a dropper?
    Cable works fine for brakes, too, but I bet you don't have mechanical brakes. I do on one bike and they certainly do the job, probably well enough for me to tolerate them on a mountain bike. I do agree with the above posters though, hydro is more powerful in that it creates more friction with less lever force. Many people say the primary advantage of hydro is modulation. My mech brake bike has drop bars and the mountain bikes have flat bars, so I wouldn't really say it's apples to apples, but I bet if I switched to mech brakes on the mountain bikes, as long as they were big/powerful enough, I doubt I'd care about the minute differences in modulation. In any event, I doubt many of us would bother with mech brakes on a mountain bike, and for many good reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Boy, talk about not listening to your mother and the advice she gave - when she told you it's better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you're a fool, than to open your mouth and prove them right

    I've been on my "low end" 9point8 FallLine, cable actuated post now for 2+ years, never had to replace the cable, was easy as pie to set it up, only ever had to do a main collar lube/service a couple times, no wiggle/wobble/play like many other posts have when brand new, especially the one you're referencing your ignorance to, could not believe the amount of play they have new, unacceptable to me.
    The reason all those pre-built bikes, from the big brands come with that dropper is because of the price the get them at, that's it. Anyone with any real knowledge about bike parts, building a custom bike from the frame up will hardly use a Reverb because of what a PITA they are in terms of bleeding and the amount of play they have new, or if they do, they switch it to be cable actuated.
    I'm not really hating on other dropper posts; run whatever you like. It seems like every time I post about this, everyone jumps on me, as if they have to defend their purchase to me. If you like what you're running, roll with it.

    I have to completely disagree with your latter point, though. If the Reverb haters are really right, and the post really is as unreliable as they say, why would a company risk its reputation on its highest builds, and use that product?

    I suspect all the Reverb hate is essentially related to two things:

    1. the Reverb is more popular than its competition, both because it is spec'ed OEM on many bikes and because it is a popular upgrade where it isn't

    and

    2. all the happy Reverb users aren't posting about how great it is.

    Certainly, older generations weren't as reliable as newer ones, but the same could be said about any consumer product with varying degrees of legitimacy.

    No company that is selling $5k+ mountain bikes would risk its reputation to save a few bucks. There are at least three or four "high end" dropper posts on the market from which they could realistically choose. There can't be a huge difference in wholesale price on them. Wholesale has to be in the $200 range. You really think they'd risk angering customers who spent $5k or more over a $20 price difference on a component they're going to advertise as a selling point and important feature? If you really believe that, fine, but I don't. And I don't have any $5k+ mountain bikes, either.

    Obviously I have my preference for the hydro actuation, especially with a 1x lever as it gives more leverage over the hydro part and makes for sweet activation up and down. I have to bleed mine and you have to maintain/lube/set up/replace your cable when it wears. Fortunately we have options and you can pick your poison.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by twodownzero View Post
    The real question is why anyone is using a mechanically actuated dropper post at all. We don't actuate our brakes with a cable, so why would we want to actuate a dropper with one?
    I want an e-dropper.
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwiceHorn View Post
    I think the main reason for use of hydraulics in brakes is not some reliability advantage (ultimately there are as many parts and more precision parts in an hydraulic system than cable), but because of the mechanical advantage that hydraulics supply...
    There's no fundamental difference between a mechanical advantage implemented with levers, gears, pulleys or hydraulics. You can get the same mechanical advantage by any of these means. What's different between them and depending on the implementation is friction, slop, hysteresis, flexibility/range of motion, etc..
    Do the math.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    I have not dealt with a Reverb, but I hear they get a lot of hate. Is this because hydraulic is the wrong application for this or is it because of RockShox poor execution of the idea?
    I've never owned a Reverb. I've only read the multiple horror stories on this forum and so it's hard to say what the real problem is.
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  36. #36
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    I've been using Reverbs for a few years now and so far...I've had no issues with the three I've owned. I sold one...but my oldest at six years old...still functions just fine. It returns a bit slow now...but it's never been serviced. I picked up a second hand B1 earlier this year along with a new 1x lever. Pretty happy with it. I did have some issues with bleeding the B1...but it turned out to the the fitting at the post. Replaced it and it's been good since. The thing with the 1x or plunger lever feel, it does take more pressure to activate the post. I've got a Command Post on another bike and the lever takes a lot less pressure to raise and lower the post...but the way the Reverb extends and lowers feels better than the Command Post.

    If anyone that has a Reverb and are still using the plunger remote...I suggest getting the 1x lever...it's worth it to do so. Ergonomically...it's a huge improvement. It's also Matchmaker compatible. I've got it integrated into my Magura brake lever for a super clean look.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by dir-T View Post
    My old Nissan was the same way - spilled oil all over every time the filter was changed. It fell onto the starter motor. I had a mechanic tell me he was pretty sure that was the cause of tons of other electrical problems he'd seen (although, to be fair, that 94 Pathfinder was pretty bombproof for the 20 years I drove it).

    My new Subaru has a filter that empties back into the engine block when you remove it. All cars should be that way.

    I never heard of the Wolf Tooth Remote dropper switch. I'll probably be buying one soon.
    My wife's forester, open the hood, there is the oil filter. Right on top. Seem like cheating.
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    My wife's forester, open the hood, there is the oil filter. Right on top. Seem like cheating.
    Same with my Tacoma. Problem is it faces down, when you take the oil filter off the oil in the filter dumps out. There is a metal funnel like catch all, but come on Toyota, really? It doesn’t matter how fast you do it, there’s always some oil that dumps.

    Not my truck but one like it.

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    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    My wife's forester, open the hood, there is the oil filter. Right on top. Seem like cheating.
    Same with my GTI. The filter in on top of the motor towards the front of the car. It uses a big socket to remove the filter housing. I'm going to get an oil extractor so I don't have to get under the car to drain the oil.

    Engineeering Decisions That Make You Shake Your Head-img_20181009_222124568.jpg

    I remember on some of my 90's Hondas where the oil filter is in the side of the block. Those were always a mess when the oil would run down the side of the engine.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS VR6 View Post
    Same with my GTI. The filter in on top of the motor towards the front of the car. It uses a big socket to remove the filter housing. I'm going to get an oil extractor so I don't have to get under the car to drain the oil.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I remember on some of my 90's Hondas where the oil filter is in the side of the block. Those were always a mess when the oil would run down the side of the engine.
    Well, then there are the audi/vw cars like the A4 and A6 from years past where if you wanted to change the starter or something else fairly simple, you have to take off the ENTIRE FRONT END of the car to do so. The germans make cars that usually work well, but they tend to do this through complexity, not a lack of it, so once you have to start working on them things can get complex rather fast. The more complex the model, the worse it gets. Those audis/vws from those years were notorious.
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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Well, then there are the audi/vw cars like the A4 and A6 from years past where if you wanted to change the starter or something else fairly simple, you have to take off the ENTIRE FRONT END of the car to do so. The germans make cars that usually work well, but they tend to do this through complexity, not a lack of it, so once you have to start working on them things can get complex rather fast. The more complex the model, the worse it gets. Those audis/vws from those years were notorious.
    I had a B5 S4. There was no room in the engine bar to do anything. It took me a couple hours just to change the spark plugs for the first time. To do the timing chains, you had to remove the entire front end. The dealer wanted 1500 to do the job. A friend of mines dad is a retired VW tech...he did the whole job for me for 600 including parts. That particular car was a huge pain in the ass to work on. Actually installing the coilovers on the B5 S4 was less work than installing them on the Mk7 GTI.

    My 2.0T 4 cyl GTI makes just about the same power as the 2.7TT 6 cyl in the S4. The oil filter on the 2.7TT is on the driver front of the engine...oil change was the easiest thing to do on the car.

    It does seem that the Germans tend to over engineer their cars. I remember a VW mechanic saying that there is someone over at VW that walks around telling their engineers "That's not complicated enough!".

  42. #42
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    I worked on a lot of German cars. I liked mercedes the best. for the most part they are very easy to work on well at least the AMG cars. Audi/vw/Porsche on the other had... Porsche is not too bad but dont get me started on BMW.

    I think all engineers/architects need to have some time in the field before actually engineering something.
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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by azimiut View Post
    I worked on a lot of German cars. I liked mercedes the best. for the most part they are very easy to work on well at least the AMG cars. Audi/vw/Porsche on the other had... Porsche is not too bad but dont get me started on BMW.

    I think all engineers/architects need to have some time in the field before actually engineering something.
    It's all a matter of the complexity Some of these have gotten way out of control.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Same with my Tacoma. Problem is it faces down, when you take the oil filter off the oil in the filter dumps out. There is a metal funnel like catch all, but come on Toyota, really? It doesn’t matter how fast you do it, there’s always some oil that dumps.

    Not my truck but one like it.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Loosen the filter, remove the plug on the botton of the drip lip, and put a plastic cup underneath to catch the oil. Simple and you will not get oil anywhere. Give the filter enough time to drain or punch a hole it in to drain faster. It's been by far one of the less messy filter set ups on cars that I've owned. On my wife's Altima, the filter is on the side of the block so you always end up dumping oil all over the side of the block and the crossmember that sits just below the oil filter--completely stupid configuration.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Same with my Tacoma. Problem is it faces down, when you take the oil filter off the oil in the filter dumps out. There is a metal funnel like catch all, but come on Toyota, really? It doesn’t matter how fast you do it, there’s always some oil that dumps.

    Not my truck but one like it.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    That is the design that I thought was actually really nice! The majority of the oil drains out of the filter, and what does not drain out gets caught by little catch pan. that little catch pan has a rubber plug on the bottom then so you can drain the oil out of that.

    Far far better than the design on my F150.
    I miss my Tacoma. 200,000 miles and only took a left front wheel bearing, tires and brakes. Oil changed every 35,000 miles.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by DethWshBkr View Post
    Oil changed every 35,000 miles.
    Really?
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Remember, there's always quilting and knitting if pedalling becomes too tough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DethWshBkr View Post
    That is the design that I thought was actually really nice! The majority of the oil drains out of the filter, and what does not drain out gets caught by little catch pan. that little catch pan has a rubber plug on the bottom then so you can drain the oil out of that.

    Far far better than the design on my F150.
    I miss my Tacoma. 200,000 miles and only took a left front wheel bearing, tires and brakes. Oil changed every 35,000 miles.
    My F-150 with the 5.4 isn't great, but it's not overly bad. I had a 3.4 4Runner where you needed to remove the skid plate to get to the filter. What a PITA that was.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    Really?
    Yep. Thirty five thousand.

    She finally got traded in when a deer hit me, and the 6 speed manual transmission failed. 05 Tacoma with 210k on it. I was going to fix it, but I was offered $2500 trade in on a truck I had to tow, so I took it.
    The shop I took it to said the engine was fine. He actually thought it would be smart to pull it and sell the engine. The oil never dropped in the entire 35,000 mile span.

    My old 01 Tacoma, I had to loosen the skid plate, remove the fender well cover, turn the wheel the whole way to the left, and still struggled to get to the filter!

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Same with my Tacoma. Problem is it faces down, when you take the oil filter off the oil in the filter dumps out. There is a metal funnel like catch all, but come on Toyota, really? It doesn’t matter how fast you do it, there’s always some oil that dumps.

    Not my truck but one like it.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by matadorCE View Post
    Loosen the filter, remove the plug on the botton of the drip lip, and put a plastic cup underneath to catch the oil. Simple and you will not get oil anywhere. Give the filter enough time to drain or punch a hole it in to drain faster. It's been by far one of the less messy filter set ups on cars that I've owned. On my wife's Altima, the filter is on the side of the block so you always end up dumping oil all over the side of the block and the crossmember that sits just below the oil filter--completely stupid configuration.
    Quote Originally Posted by DethWshBkr View Post
    That is the design that I thought was actually really nice! The majority of the oil drains out of the filter, and what does not drain out gets caught by little catch pan. that little catch pan has a rubber plug on the bottom then so you can drain the oil out of that.

    Far far better than the design on my F150.
    I miss my Tacoma. 200,000 miles and only took a left front wheel bearing, tires and brakes. Oil changed every 35,000 miles.
    Amazing, I’ve had this truck since new. That’s 12 years of many do it yourself oil changes and I never knew that at the bottom of the metal funnel catch all there was a hidden rubber drain plug. Doh! Man do I feel like an idiot. Many an oil clean up mess because of my ignorance. Thank you gentlemen, I take back this bad design and call it an ingenious design by Toyota and it shouldn’t have been introduced into this thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  50. #50
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    I'd like to suggest a sub forum for Oil Changes.
    Trying to navigate around people's safe-spaces is a fruitless endeavor.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by GKelley View Post
    I'd like to suggest a sub forum for Oil Changes.
    Try it, I bet in no time the thread will get moved to Passion.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    It's all a matter of the complexity Some of these have gotten way out of control.

    I was well versed in the SLS AMG because they are just not fast enough without a supercharger. Actually they are very easy to work on. I would say as far as what I did it is not much different than working on a LS motor. only difference is everything is Torx screws.

    Engineeering Decisions That Make You Shake Your Head-1400787718_zps90c7a175.jpgEngineeering Decisions That Make You Shake Your Head-1400787737_zpsdf3117f5.jpg
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  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by azimiut View Post
    I was well versed in the SLS AMG because they are just not fast enough without a supercharger.
    Not fast enough for what?

    Getting groceries wicked fast?

    Racing Honda Civics at red lights?

    Using as much gasoline as possible?
    Scarlett Johansson loves my hummus.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Amazing, I’ve had this truck since new. That’s 12 years of many do it yourself oil changes and I never knew that at the bottom of the metal funnel catch all there was a hidden rubber drain plug. Doh! Man do I feel like an idiot. Many an oil clean up mess because of my ignorance. Thank you gentlemen, I take back this bad design and call it an ingenious design by Toyota and it shouldn’t have been introduced into this thread.
    Now if only changing the oil in our forks was so easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Remember, there's always quilting and knitting if pedalling becomes too tough.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    Now if only changing the oil in our forks was so easy.
    If it was I suspect I’d have new oil in my fork.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  56. #56
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    Its really not that difficult to change oil and seals in a fork. I've got the tools to do a seal job on my forks. Takes about 30 mins to do it. Changing travel is a pain.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by juan_speeder View Post
    Not fast enough for what?

    Getting groceries wicked fast?

    Racing Honda Civics at red lights?

    Using as much gasoline as possible?
    all of the above.
    Study nature, love nature, stay close to nature. It will never fail you.
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  58. #58
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    Going back to threaded bb's, dumb.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    Now if only changing the oil in our forks was so easy.
    Im waiting for the same 35,000 miles I changed it on my Tacoma!
    "Go soothingly in the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon"

  60. #60
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    I think engineers and draftspeople are in cahoots and intentionally design things to be ignorant sometimes...like "HAHAHA! Have fun welding this, @$$HOLE!""

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    Quote Originally Posted by DethWshBkr View Post
    Another engineering bit of stupidity?
    Ever look at a Ford?
    Why do you jam the oil filter in the least accessible place in existence. Then, when you finally grow a second and third elbow to contort yourself and luckily DO get the filter removed, oil goes all over the place since the filter is horizontal and it doesn't drain, or trap itself.


    My 05 Tacoma had the filter on the top of the engine, and had a littlr catch pan built into the side to collect what little oil would drip out of the filter. The filter was open side down, so it drained most of the oil out of the filter. Then, there was a rubber plug you could pull to drain the oil catch into a container.
    Best designed thing I've ever seen.
    Current second gen Tacoma owner here. I concur, oil changes are easy peasy.

    I had a 2000 dodge intrepid that to get to the battery, you had to jack up the front end, remove the passenger wheel, and remove the battery from the wheel well. Not only was it terribly inaccessibale, but the battery life was dramatically shortened because of terrible road salt corrosion (new england car). I don't know who designs these engines, but they are terrible.
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    on my bronco 5.8 motor I have to loosen the filter from the bottom however it will not fit from below. I have to climb on top of the engine and remove it from above. after all this the entire front axle is covered in oil. I hate cars. that is one reason why I quit being a mechanic.
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