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  1. #101
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    Doh!

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    what is really he the difference between e-bike/e-motorcycle/and gas powered dirtbike/motocycle? I mean really. All of them have motors that power the wheels. The fact that "e-bike" are sitting on a bicycle frame and have only 250w of power is not really a barrier. Over 100 years ago the first motorcycles were simply modificed bicycle frames with small motors and pedals. In time the realized the pedals were pointless when you have a nearly limitless supply of mechanical power from the motor. E-bikes are just the same. Their evolution can only lead to more power and greater range requiring more deviation from the tradition bicycle frame.

    What separates bicycles (dirt or road) from motorcycles is in fact the motor. One class is human powered where the max power output is limited by the human body. The other is power in part or whole by a motor (gas or electric) and there is no absolute limit to the power. This is why e-bikes are not really bicycles because they are not solely human powered. The are in fact light, quite low powered motorcycles. Their may be a place for these things in the world, but they are NOT bicycles despite how their manufactures try to push them. The sky is blue not red despite how much some folks my try to say otherwise. The fact is we all know this because we can use our own eyes.

    What needs to be done ASAP (but the MFG won't do it since they just want to sell crap) is clearly state e-bikes are NOT bicycles. They are new class of silent, low powered motor bike. They should advocate on their own for access and to create the distinction, but would rather take the easy way to just ride coat tails of bicycles and try to "sneak in" as just the same thing when they clearly are not.
    The only reason there is any debate at all is because, by their nature, ebikes can be sold at bike shops and can be merchandised through the same channels. Naturally your local bike store is going to sell them because they are profitable and there is a demand. Just as naturally the cycling industry is going to sell them because there is money to be made and everybody involved, including their sponsored athletes, are going to sing the praises of eBikes as slightly modified bicycles and not motorcycles.

    This is natural and proper. I want my local bike store to stay in business and if selling mopeds helps them do that I'm all for it.

    For what you want to happen to come to pass, eBikes would have to be so radically different from bicycles in size and complexity that they would be sold like motorcycles or cars.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by langster831 View Post
    I'm just curious, because I've never seen an e-bike that you don't pedal, and I know there electric motorcycles out there but that's not what were talking about.

    If you did a 30 minute effort on a 10 mile climb with an average grade of 9%, other than how far you made it up the climb would there be any difference in the physical output your body produced between an e-bike and mechanical bike?

    I just don't see any con's when it comes to e-bikes, but a lot of pros


    I bet the number of people who need an eBike who can do a ten-mile climb or even want to is close to zero. I saw some people on motorcycles on the Tour Divide roughly following the same route but there's nobody going to buy an eBike to help them get to the top of Indiana Pass for recreational purposes.

    It's just not going to happen. If you're the kind of guy who likes to climb (I do) then you don't want any help. Ten mile climbs with an average 9 percent grade are the realm of dedicated amateurs or serious endurance athletes.

    For the record, a nine percent grade is pretty steep. I often have to get off the bike and walk, especially above 8000 feet at grades that steep. I have the low gears on my race bike (SRAM GX eagle with a 30-tooth chainring...I have some low, low gears) but I can pedal at 1 MPH or walk at 2MPH. My goal for 2020 is to lose weight, lighten my gear, shave some weight off my bike, increase my FTP, and conquer some of those places I had to hike-a-bike.

    I have never, ever, considered motorized assist. There's no point to it for recreational cycling...certainly not for racing.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    15 years from now e-bikes will be the predominant mountain bike.
    For better or worse, possibly. I hope to continue to challenge myself physically at that time via bike.
    You can't get a suntan on the moon...

  5. #105
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    The only people that donít enjoy their class 1 emtb are the ones that donít own them.
    ďAs a top contributor to the Sierra Club, I can honestly say, the next time you wipe, thank a logger.Ē

  6. #106
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    I'm coming out and saying that those who ride e-bikes and think they
    are mountain bikers are a bunch of posers.

  7. #107
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    e-mopeds and the tubbies who ride them are here to stay. I mean everything else in the USA is turning to crap so why not the trails, too?

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
    The only people that donít enjoy their class 1 emtb are the ones that donít own them.
    i think you are quite right. While I was against assist bikes before I rode one, no more. Most fun on a bike with a class 3 cruising at 28 mph for more than an hour. I have yet to purchase one, at some point I will. Class 1 is cool to but that extra 8 mph is great. Not really a mountain bike but I road a Specialized Turbo S on a trail and it was a super blast.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalon2018 View Post
    i think you are quite right. While I was against assist bikes before I rode one, no more. Most fun on a bike with a class 3 cruising at 28 mph for more than an hour. I have yet to purchase one, at some point I will. Class 1 is cool to but that extra 8 mph is great. Not really a mountain bike but I road a Specialized Turbo S on a trail and it was a super blast.
    Well, this wimpy non mtbr also owns a turbo S. In fact my whole family rides them. Anyrate, I will no longer ride a Mtb. Iíve been riding emtbs for the last 3 years and mtbs my entire life. Iím not fat, old, or out of shape. I value my free time and am going to squeeze the most fun out of it I can and the ebikes do it for me. Just my opinion. People that donít like them, idc, they are entitled to their opinion also. As emtbrs even though 95% of us (just guessing) are current or past mtbrs, we need to set an example and stand for ourselves.
    Last edited by Gutch; 1 Week Ago at 07:32 AM.
    ďAs a top contributor to the Sierra Club, I can honestly say, the next time you wipe, thank a logger.Ē

  10. #110
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    Cycling isn't for everyone, it's always been a fringe sport mostly comprised of hardcore and/or eccentric individuals. E-bikes will help bring it back to it's roots.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    E-bikes will help bring back cycling to it's roots.
    Roots as in it will die ?
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by fokof View Post
    Roots as in it will die ?



    Close, it will dwindle down to a few weirdos like it used to be.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Close, it will dwindle down to a few weirdos like it used to be.
    Much preferred! I'm not a fan of the 'everyone on bikes' movement. The fewer the better.
    You can't get a suntan on the moon...

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Kuhl View Post
    I'm coming out and saying that those who ride e-bikes and think they
    are mountain bikers are a bunch of posers.
    Joe
    '18 Specialized Epic 29", Vassago Verhauen SS 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5", XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Kuhl View Post
    I'm coming out and saying that those who ride e-bikes and think they
    are mountain bikers are a bunch of posers.

    This is so true, there are no motors in cycling.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  16. #116
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    Why is there all this hate for ebikes? Its not pure enough for you? Too easy? Your strava times are in jeopardy?

    But shuttling is cool? Would you rather spend half your day riding a chair lift, or ebiking to the summit?

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalon2018 View Post
    ..Most fun on a bike with a class 3 cruising at 28 mph for more than an hour. ..
    Might want to get a moto. Looks like fun at more than 28 mph. And no pedaling.

    2019 CRF230F Overview - Honda Powersports




    At $4354 this cheaper than an e-bike too.
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    '18 Specialized Epic 29", Vassago Verhauen SS 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5", XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  18. #118
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    Really? I guess that you may not have ridden one. At the end of a 28 mile ride in just over a hour, I was mostly spent. Dirt motorcycles do take a lot of effort but nothing like the energy I put out to maintain max speed of the bike. Do not buy one if you dislike them. I donít own one but I am sure at one point I will. One of my goals in life to maximize fun. These machines allow that while you get life saving exercise. So wtf.

  19. #119
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    You don't need an e-bike to get a good workout for just over 1 hour. You won't got 28 miles (not even on a road bike), but if you just want the workout do miles make a difference?
    Joe
    '18 Specialized Epic 29", Vassago Verhauen SS 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5", XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalon2018 View Post
    Dirt motorcycles do take a lot of effort but nothing like the energy I put out to maintain max speed of the bike.
    You may want to research that a little. If you're trying to maintain max speed, why use a motor? Are you using the motor at max speed? And where did you ride that you could average 28mph?
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Remember, there's always quilting and knitting if pedalling becomes too tough.

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    You don't need an e-bike to get a good workout for just over 1 hour. You won't got 28 miles (not even on a road bike), but if you just want the workout do miles make a difference?
    Sure, you could even do a treadmill in your warm and cozy home but..... it is boring. So I ride eTap and Di2 to keep it fresh, fast and fun. I love speed in any form. So sure I can and do ride my bikes as hard as I dare. And need recovery time at my age. So blowing through the woods at speeds I could never maintain very long on my own was exelerating. That experience would make it much easier to get out of a warm bed to ride in the cold. I only did it once on a loaned bike but I see owning one in the next couple of years. Not today however. As I said, I ride for the fun and life saving exercise. Ebike checks both boxes Just like my other bikes.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    You don't need an e-bike to get a good workout for just over 1 hour. You won't got 28 miles (not even on a road bike), but if you just want the workout do miles make a difference?
    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    You may want to research that a little. If you're trying to maintain max speed, why use a motor? Are you using the motor at max speed? And where did you ride that you could average 28mph?
    The motor allowed me to go faster than I can pedal without assist. Class 3 ebikes are limited to 28 mph and then only if you pedal your butt off. There is no throttle. Just your legs and a switch to select boast or none. Then select how much boast you desire. I was really tired after trying to keep the bike at max speed for a hour. And if I have to say this, for me it is more speed, more fun. And if I can get my desired workout on an ebike, why not if it more fun. Mostly I do not own one cause there are few places to ride within the law except on the road which I gave up.

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Kuhl View Post
    I'm coming out and saying that those who ride e-bikes and think they
    are mountain bikers are a bunch of posers.
    You just ruined my life....

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailuropoda View Post
    I bet the number of people who need an eBike who can do a ten-mile climb or even want to is close to zero. I saw some people on motorcycles on the Tour Divide roughly following the same route but there's nobody going to buy an eBike to help them get to the top of Indiana Pass for recreational purposes.

    It's just not going to happen. If you're the kind of guy who likes to climb (I do) then you don't want any help. Ten mile climbs with an average 9 percent grade are the realm of dedicated amateurs or serious endurance athletes.

    For the record, a nine percent grade is pretty steep. I often have to get off the bike and walk, especially above 8000 feet at grades that steep. I have the low gears on my race bike (SRAM GX eagle with a 30-tooth chainring...I have some low, low gears) but I can pedal at 1 MPH or walk at 2MPH. My goal for 2020 is to lose weight, lighten my gear, shave some weight off my bike, increase my FTP, and conquer some of those places I had to hike-a-bike.

    I have never, ever, considered motorized assist. There's no point to it for recreational cycling...certainly not for racing.

    Let's see. I've ridden over 100 MTB races, including XC, enduro, DH and Leadville over a dozen times. I've also ridden over 100,000 miles on the road and road raced for decades. I also have ridden randonees up to 600km several times and a couple of 24 hour time trials.

    Tell me again about "serious endurance athletes"?

    I built a hubmotor eMTB over 15 years ago. It was fun, but the weight of the hubmotor affected the handling too much. A couple of years ago I bought a Class 1 eMTB, and six months ago I bought another. They are freaking awesome.

    You are ego-saddled and projecting YOUR mode of enjoyment on to others as the only way.

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    Let's see. I've ridden over 100 MTB races, including XC, enduro, DH and Leadville over a dozen times. I've also ridden over 100,000 miles on the road and road raced for decades. I also have ridden randonees up to 600km several times and a couple of 24 hour time trials.

    Tell me again about "serious endurance athletes"?

    I built a hubmotor eMTB over 15 years ago. It was fun, but the weight of the hubmotor affected the handling too much. A couple of years ago I bought a Class 1 eMTB, and six months ago I bought another. They are freaking awesome.

    You are ego-saddled and projecting YOUR mode of enjoyment on to others as the only way.
    What motivated you to get an e-bike, and what do you enjoy about them compared to normal bikes?

  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    e-mopeds and the tubbies who ride them are here to stay. I mean everything else in the USA is turning to crap so why not the trails, too?
    And not one made by a E-BIKE........So who's turning the trails to crap??
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails E-Bikes & Strava controversy hits WSJ-20190110_212823.jpg  

    I Pity The Fool That Can't Ride A Bike Without A Dropper!!

  27. #127
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    I'm all for e-bikes, but what's wrong with that trail? We used to just call that a technical section.

  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
    The only people that donít enjoy their class 1 emtb are the ones that donít own them.
    Or don't have legal places to ride them? I demo'd one, the front end was way heavy to loft over logs and short ledges. IMHO. Serious question, problem for you with this? Maybe your trails are less chunky?

  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by dundermifflin View Post
    What motivated you to get an e-bike, and what do you enjoy about them compared to normal bikes?
    I just like to have fun. I have 25 bikes of all kinds. If I'm not racing, I don't care how fast I'm going, I don't care about my heart rate, I'm just out enjoying cycling, whether it is on the road, or on an MTB on a trail or Forest Service road, or on gravel.

    I live in Colorado so I have all of these options open to an eMTB. I actually converted one of my eMTBs to be a commuter that can handle gravel. I can commute to work "the back way" and get in 3000 feet of climbing in 25 miles each way. Trust me, even on a Class 1 ebike you feel that ride, but the eMTB makes that commute a joy instead of a chore. I can ride my 27.5+ eMTB out of my driveway to the trailheads at Golden Gate State Park which has awesome trails, but it is 2000 feet of *steep* climbing in five miles on pavement and gravel to get there. I can ride to the trailhead on the eMTB, ride singletrack for two hours, and ride home, all on one battery charge. I can take my extra battery and ride all the way to the top of Kingston Peak road and back, a ride I *never* did on an MTB because it is mostly gravel leading to 4x4 roads and it didn't seem like a fun grind. On the eMTB it is completely awesome and fun. I can go down and hit White Ranch, North Table, Apex or I can drive to Staunton State Park and ride. They are just a fun bikes, and I can do a great ride before work without having to spend the entire work day trying to recover.

    What a *lot* of younger people don't understand is that as you age, you can still do occasional epic rides, but to do them day after day is *much* more difficult. It takes a lot longer to recover. If you are in your late-50's and do one big ride a week, you can recover over a couple of days, but if you want to ride every day, even medium intensity rides day after day will grind you down. It is impossible to do an easy ride on an MTB on some trails around here, especially at higher altitudes. Non-ebike owners simply don't realize that you can ride just as hard on an ebike as you do on a regular MTB, and in fact I sometimes way over do it, but if you want to take a great ride but make it easy enough that you don't have to spend three days recovering, the ebike can do that as well. It is an awesome tool for optimizing your fitness.

    I am generally staying out of these discussions these days, because I frankly don't really give a fuk what some 20-something testosterone poisoned bro who has never even ridden one thinks about ebikes. "Duuude, you are such a POSER!" LMAO. They'll come around eventually.

  30. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by leeboh View Post
    Or don't have legal places to ride them? I demo'd one, the front end was way heavy to loft over logs and short ledges. IMHO. Serious question, problem for you with this? Maybe your trails are less chunky?
    You demo'ed ONE. A Levo/Shuttle are as good as just about any enduro bike.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpS7JpOHQbY
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbXdoN4xcyM

  31. #131
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    Dude,
    I am 44 years old. I did Breck Epic in 2018 and was stronger after having done it than before I started training. When I was 22 I could not have even finished 1 day of it. As for speed.. well Mid pack, but I would have podiumed with the 60+ plus guys, but would not have won. The top guy is just superfast. So I am not super slow either. I am doing Breck Epic again in 2019, but plan to take a few years off and will go again for 50th birthday. As for 60? Well lets just see.
    Joe
    '18 Specialized Epic 29", Vassago Verhauen SS 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5", XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  32. #132
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    When you buy an ebike, are you obligated to turn in your testicles, or is that optional?

    57 here and still climbing with a singlespeed. An e-bike is not an option. That's like giving up and that's just not gonna happen.
    Why Johnny Ringo, you look like someone just walked over your grave.

  33. #133
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    First world problems aye?

    Imagine the starving African kid looking for some food in the dust. I'm sure his heart bleeds for your E-bike ursurped KOM.

  34. #134
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    Did I miss the part that the guy could flag the e bike Strava post?
    Holy crap.

    If you are that competitive, you should go out and race your bike at an organized event.

    Strava is good for keeping track of your activities, staying for, and having fun with friends. If you are overly concerned with how fast you are compared to strangers, well...
    Go ride a bike lol, it's supposed to be about having fun and staying active.

  35. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    Dude,
    I am 44 years old. I did Breck Epic in 2018 and was stronger after having done it than before I started training. When I was 22 I could not have even finished 1 day of it. As for speed.. well Mid pack, but I would have podiumed with the 60+ plus guys, but would not have won. The top guy is just superfast. So I am not super slow either. I am doing Breck Epic again in 2019, but plan to take a few years off and will go again for 50th birthday. As for 60? Well lets just see.
    Do you think you are immortal or something? Wait until you hit more and more job/kid/financial pressures, occasional injuries, random sickness, etc. I have news for you. Those unicorns you see kicking ass over age 60 are just that, unicorns, and for the most part when they were in their 40's they would have smoked you by hours. If you aren't *killing" their times in your early 40's, you'll be struggling by your 60's like everyone else.

    There is a big difference between athletic ability between 40 and 50, but the difference between 50 and 60 is ten times more. I didn't believe that at age 50, but I do at nearly 59.

    Look at Leadville for 60+. Yes, the top guy did an 8:40 but look at number 11. 10:40. Every single rider who finishes is awesome, over-60? Incredible. But the people who can go under 9 hours over age 60 are not even 1%er, we're talking a much more exclusive group relative to the population. More like one in a million. Why aren't there hundreds of over-60 riders at Leadville? Twenty years ago there were hundreds of over-40's, and the race has become exponentially more popular since then. Where are they?

    A good friend of mine is a strong road racer who is 50. He laughed at my ebikes when I got them. He always bragged about how he had never had any kind of injury more serious that road rash from bike racing. Last summer he crashed and ended up with some pretty major surgery. He isn't laughing at my ebikes now, he is trying to recover, trying to maintain some semblance of fitness. It takes *way* longer to recover from injuries in your 50's. A lot of people never get back to form. I had major neck surgery at 48 and I've never been the same. I have a couple other injuries since and they take forever to heal. There is nothing wrong with me, that is just they way it works.

    I hope you are an immortal unicorn, but don't count on it.

  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    Do you think you are immortal or something? Wait until you hit more and more job/kid/financial pressures, occasional injuries, random sickness, etc. I have news for you. Those unicorns you see kicking ass over age 60 are just that, unicorns, and for the most part when they were in their 40's they would have smoked you by hours. If you aren't *killing" their times in your early 40's, you'll be struggling by your 60's like everyone else. ..
    I never said I was that fast. Just a slightly better than average mid 40's rider. I just hope to be riding in my late 50/60's and have no desire to e-bike. That is simply cheating. If I can't pedal a bike I probably can risk a crash either. Yeah one day I will get old and frail as it happens to everyone and when it does I will just sit back and drink beer. My father is 82 and skill going strong. He was never a bike rider except for his 20's, but he is still pretty active at home.
    Joe
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  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalon2018 View Post
    Sure, you could even do a treadmill in your warm and cozy home but..... it is boring. So I ride eTap and Di2 to keep it fresh, fast and fun. I love speed in any form. So sure I can and do ride my bikes as hard as I dare. And need recovery time at my age. So blowing through the woods at speeds I could never maintain very long on my own was exelerating. That experience would make it much easier to get out of a warm bed to ride in the cold. I only did it once on a loaned bike but I see owning one in the next couple of years. Not today however. As I said, I ride for the fun and life saving exercise. Ebike checks both boxes Just like my other bikes.
    It sure seems like you're trolling, and trolling without understanding what eTap and Di2 do and how they don't relate to ebike usage as discussed here.

  38. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by og-mtb View Post
    It sure seems like you're trolling, and trolling without understanding what eTap and Di2 do and how they don't relate to ebike usage as discussed here.
    I did not make my point very clear. Electric shifting help keeps the riding fresh and fun and mostly eliminated any derailure adjustments I did for 50 years. So I only mentioned shifting cause I need to always keep the experience new. I am not trolling and have time for that. So if you burned as much energy or more that your pedal bike but went faster, had more fun and saw a lot more of the countryside, and you are still opposed to the things, vote with your cash. I would buy one today but I am heavily invested in my pedal bikes and there are few places to ride them except the streets. I am done with that. Safe Travels,

  39. #139
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    I wanted a fresh new experience so I bought a 27.5+ rigid SS. Mission accomplished!

    55 btw.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Remember, there's always quilting and knitting if pedalling becomes too tough.

  40. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    I wanted a fresh new experience so I bought a 27.5+ rigid SS. Mission accomplished!

    55 btw.
    Now, we need to get you on Strava!!
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  41. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    I wanted a fresh new experience so I bought a 27.5+ rigid SS. Mission accomplished!

    55 btw.
    Congratulations, you have arrived. My last single speed came in 1966. Enjoy that speed monster.

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    ugh.. just because in a sample size of 1 (i.e. you) can still get out on the trails /crush a climb at age X.. doesn't mean that everyone is as fortunate .. aging is perhaps a universal experience but not experienced the same by everyone..

    there is no reason why a person that can't otherwise enjoy mtb due to physical limitations should be blocked from doing so by people that are offended by an e-bike..

    the government says ebikes are bikes.. not mopeds , not motorbikes.. etc.. that is why they have battery limits / pedal assist limits.. etc..

    they are bikes.. they require you to pedal.. they should be allowed where bikes are allowed.. if you want your local bike shop to keep it's doors open ... e-bikes are greatly helping to keep the lights on.

  43. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by atarione View Post
    the government says ebikes are bikes..
    The government also says marijuana is a schedule 1 controlled substance, so we should all stop smoking pot, right?

    I personally don't care what ebikes are called, in fact I've come up with a name that should satisfy all those in favor of ebikes for the folks who are too old or have issues with riding normal pedal bikes: Mobility Assist Cycles
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  44. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornfield View Post
    The government also says marijuana is a schedule 1 controlled substance, so we should all stop smoking pot, right?

    I personally don't care what ebikes are called, in fact I've come up with a name that should satisfy all those in favor of ebikes for the folks who are too old or have issues with riding normal pedal bikes: Mobility Assist Cycles
    I thought its been proven that you in fact did not come up with that term, and that it originated nearly 5 years ago. I quit smoking marijuana and pot, now I just smoke weed.

  45. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornfield View Post
    so we should all stop smoking pot, right?
    Reported
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    Quote Originally Posted by langster831 View Post
    I thought its been proven that you in fact did not come up with that term, and that it originated nearly 5 years ago. I quit smoking marijuana and pot, now I just smoke weed.
    That was an unreliable source.

    Quote Originally Posted by jcd46 View Post
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  47. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by atarione View Post
    there is no reason why a person that can't otherwise enjoy mtb due to physical limitations should be blocked from doing so by people that are offended by an e-bike..
    There are many reasons. Those reasons are known as "laws" and "regulations."

    Those reasons have nothing to do with people being offended.

    You really should educate yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by atarione View Post
    the government says ebikes are bikes.. not mopeds , not motorbikes.. etc.. that is why they have battery limits / pedal assist limits.. etc..
    Nope. You're wrong.

    Many governments at the federal, state, and locals levels consider ebikes to be motor vehicles and ban them from many trails, or even entire parks.

  48. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shark View Post
    Did I miss the part that the guy could flag the e bike Strava post?
    Holy crap.

    If you are that competitive, you should go out and race your bike at an organized event.

    Strava is good for keeping track of your activities, staying for, and having fun with friends. If you are overly concerned with how fast you are compared to strangers, well...
    Go ride a bike lol, it's supposed to be about having fun and staying active.



    Some people like chasing virtual trophies, that's why strava awards them (duh!) and that's why strava is so successful.

    Yes it's dumb, so what? Don't like it? Don't play. Seems pretty simple.
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  49. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Some people like chasing virtual trophies, that's why strava awards them (duh!) and that's why strava is so successful.

    Yes it's dumb, so what? Don't like it? Don't play. Seems pretty simple.
    I didn't say I didn't like it, I use it in the manner above.

    I said the guy complaining that someone took his kom was silly.

  50. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by og-mtb View Post
    Many governments at the federal, state, and locals levels consider ebikes to be motor vehicles and ban them from many trails, or even entire parks.
    Especially in liberal statesÖ..
    I Pity The Fool That Can't Ride A Bike Without A Dropper!!

  51. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shark View Post
    I didn't say I didn't like it, I use it in the manner above.

    I said the guy complaining that someone took his kom was silly.
    Itís not really silly to get upset if someone cheats specifically to beat you in a competition / game / sport. Whatís to stop someone from using their garmin in their car to get KOMs, it just ruins it for everybody.

  52. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by dundermifflin View Post
    Itís not really silly to get upset if someone cheats specifically to beat you in a competition / game / sport. Whatís to stop someone from using their garmin in their car to get KOMs, it just ruins it for everybody.
    Itís not really silly to get upset when hiking or riding your horse when someone comes flying by at top speed trying to get his KOM................it just ruins it for everybody.
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  53. #153
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    A woman was killed in Central Park NYC 2-3 years ago when a deranged rider was well above 20 mph when he struck her as he blasting through the park. Busted with his Strava data. I always slow when passing hikers even though it buggers up my average speed on the computer, not Strava. I save every ride and sometimes look back at the metric to see if I am improving but......when I forget my GPS, I often have more fun knowing I am not competing against myself. It feels liberating.

  54. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by dundermifflin View Post
    Itís not really silly to get upset if someone cheats specifically to beat you in a competition / game / sport. Whatís to stop someone from using their garmin in their car to get KOMs, it just ruins it for everybody.
    That's why you can flag an activity.

  55. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by tom tom View Post
    Itís not really silly to get upset when hiking or riding your horse when someone comes flying by at top speed trying to get his KOM................it just ruins it for everybody.
    Thatís true but not everyone on strava does that and it has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

  56. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shark View Post
    That's why you can flag an activity.
    True too but you donít always know who is on an e bike or not if they donít say what theyíre riding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    Do you think you are immortal or something? Wait until you hit more and more job/kid/financial pressures, occasional injuries, random sickness, etc. I have news for you. Those unicorns you see kicking ass over age 60 are just that, unicorns, and for the most part when they were in their 40's they would have smoked you by hours. If you aren't *killing" their times in your early 40's, you'll be struggling by your 60's like everyone else.

    There is a big difference between athletic ability between 40 and 50, but the difference between 50 and 60 is ten times more. I didn't believe that at age 50, but I do at nearly 59.

    Look at Leadville for 60+. Yes, the top guy did an 8:40 but look at number 11. 10:40. Every single rider who finishes is awesome, over-60? Incredible. But the people who can go under 9 hours over age 60 are not even 1%er, we're talking a much more exclusive group relative to the population. More like one in a million. Why aren't there hundreds of over-60 riders at Leadville? Twenty years ago there were hundreds of over-40's, and the race has become exponentially more popular since then. Where are they?

    A good friend of mine is a strong road racer who is 50. He laughed at my ebikes when I got them. He always bragged about how he had never had any kind of injury more serious that road rash from bike racing. Last summer he crashed and ended up with some pretty major surgery. He isn't laughing at my ebikes now, he is trying to recover, trying to maintain some semblance of fitness. It takes *way* longer to recover from injuries in your 50's. A lot of people never get back to form. I had major neck surgery at 48 and I've never been the same. I have a couple other injuries since and they take forever to heal. There is nothing wrong with me, that is just they way it works.

    I hope you are an immortal unicorn, but don't count on it.
    Thanks for the insight, all good points

  58. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcd46 View Post
    Now, we need to get you on Strava!!
    I actually went to sign up the other day and it said my email was already registered. So I did register, just never used it. But I recorded my last ride and my runs this week and I was able to import my ride/run earlier this year from runkeeper.

    Er, where are the rankings? Does that cost extra? I did get a KOT on my first ride!
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Remember, there's always quilting and knitting if pedalling becomes too tough.

  59. #159
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    People that use skilifts and shuttles to go uphill complain about people using ebikes to go up.
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  60. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalon2018 View Post
    Congratulations, you have arrived. My last single speed came in 1966. Enjoy that speed monster.
    I bought my previous mtb SS around 2008. Previous rigid in 1994. Current road SS 2014ish. I'm not trying to be the fastest, btw.

    Look, this is a mountain bike site so if you come on here and post about ebikes, you shouldn't expect the warmest welcome. Most all of us are bicycle riders. Just like a Ford fan posting on a Chevy fan website. Sure, they may have a forum for it, but it's about Chevys, not Fords. And if you're riding an ebike on the road, we really don't care, it's just not what most of us are interested in doing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Remember, there's always quilting and knitting if pedalling becomes too tough.

  61. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    I actually went to sign up the other day and it said my email was already registered. So I did register, just never used it. But I recorded my last ride and my runs this week and I was able to import my ride/run earlier this year from runkeeper.

    Er, where are the rankings? Does that cost extra? I did get a KOT on my first ride!
    Click on a segment and they will be to your right. I think its available for free but not sure. I pay $6/month, but as I've said I'm usually 799 of 803
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  62. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by tom tom View Post
    Especially in liberal statesÖ..
    You make no sense.

  63. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    Let's see. I've ridden over 100 MTB races, including XC, enduro, DH and Leadville over a dozen times. I've also ridden over 100,000 miles on the road and road raced for decades. I also have ridden randonees up to 600km several times and a couple of 24 hour time trials.

    Tell me again about "serious endurance athletes"?

    I built a hubmotor eMTB over 15 years ago. It was fun, but the weight of the hubmotor affected the handling too much. A couple of years ago I bought a Class 1 eMTB, and six months ago I bought another. They are freaking awesome.

    You are ego-saddled and projecting YOUR mode of enjoyment on to others as the only way.
    Damn you poser!!😀
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  64. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by leeboh View Post
    Or don't have legal places to ride them? I demo'd one, the front end was way heavy to loft over logs and short ledges. IMHO. Serious question, problem for you with this? Maybe your trails are less chunky?
    My trails are probably less chunky than NE trails and with more flow. I can lift and manual my Focus. Maybe my stays are shorter and my emtb weighs 46#.
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  65. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcd46 View Post
    Click on a segment and they will be to your right. I think its available for free but not sure. I pay $6/month, but as I've said I'm usually 799 of 803
    Well, doesn't look very useful around me. First segment I clicked on was a beginner trail right out of the parking lot. It's very flat and pretty twisty:

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    I'd say #5 & 6 are a maybe but still questionable. And probably too fast to be riding on a beginner trail that very often has other users and isn't directional.

    Here's a downhill run with jumps. Still rather twisty, not straight at all and not really that big of a hill (I mostly ride with my tires on the ground):

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    So not sure what's going on with these, maybe just bad gps? There's not really ways to short cut these segments. I've had Runkeeper come up with some ridiculous numbers at times.


    Looked at my road ride a couple of weeks ago on the rails to trails. The speeds look a lot more reasonable. I notice a lot of the segments are titled with the word "sprint". So I guess people ride with the plan of hitting certain segments hard. I'd rather just ride than trying to conserve energy on sections and then sprint on segments trying to move up the ladder. When I ride, I may alternate between riding hard and riding easy, but I don't want to have to keep up a schedule of when to do so, that starts to be work. This is one reason I've stayed off of Strava in the past, I don't want to get caught up in it where it detracts from my riding.

    But it will work well for tracking my rides per bike; something I couldn't do in Runkeeper.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
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  66. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalon2018 View Post
    The motor allowed me to go faster than I can pedal without assist. Class 3 ebikes are limited to 28 mph and then only if you pedal your butt off.
    And with a little knowledge (or Google) , you can easily bypass these limitations.

    On a real bicycle , the motor (meaning a human being) will always have limitation : yourself.
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  67. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
    My trails are probably less chunky than NE trails and with more flow. I can lift and manual my Focus. Maybe my stays are shorter and my emtb weighs 46#.
    Still weighs a lot. Just not my cup of tea, cheers.

  68. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    Well it doesn't look very useful around me.

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    Dang, I've never seen anything like that around here. Segment times always seem consistent and accurate for me, and numbers like the ones on the leaderboard you posted would have been flagged for sure.

    Anyway, you can ignore the rest and just concentrate on your own times if that's your thing. I do use certain segments for intervals sometimes and hit them hard, and usually I can guess my time within a few seconds before I upload the ride.

    Trying to improve my times on segments doesn't distract from my rides, it enhances them, but that's just my style. For those who find the competitive aspect annoying I think there are at least a few tracking apps that do about everything strava does except the leaderboards.
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    I personally have no interest in an ebike but I don't see what the big deal is for people who want them. Aside from some of the hardcore fitness folks on the pointy end of the distribution (I'm one of them btw), most casual mountain bikers are doing it for fun not to crush climbs in record time. This is why trail bikes sell much more than XC bikes and lift assisted parks are popular. Even many of the regulars in my area would prefer to use rotating trucks serving as "lifts" at trails with lots of elevation rather than climb them.
    Seems that ebikes solve a lot of these problems.

    My only concern is land access and how park managers view ebikes, but if that is solved, then I'd say more power to people who want them.

  70. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    But it will work well for tracking my rides per bike; something I couldn't do in Runkeeper.
    That's the secret, no need to get trapped on competing with others. If I was younger or simply a better rider it maybe tempting.

    Riding is to reboot, and be outside with nature for me.

    Maybe those are ebike speeds??
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  71. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    Once you have a motor you are not looking at human achievement. You are looking at motor output.

    You are looking at human achievement with motor assistance. It takes more than just a motor to beat a KOM.

  72. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by plummet View Post
    You are looking at human achievement with motor assistance. It takes more than just a motor to beat a KOM.
    All I want to do is have fun and get plenty of life saving exercise. Faster the better.

  73. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by plummet View Post
    You are looking at human achievement with motor assistance. It takes more than just a motor to beat a KOM.


    Half of kom's are climbs and I think I could probably take all of them around here if I had a few hundred extra watts on hand.
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  74. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  75. #175
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    Avid Strava user here. I have zero KOM's for climbing or descending and when I check the leaderboards I am generally in the top 50% and that makes me happy enough. I don't have any aspirations to get a virtual trophy.

    I agree it is pathetic for someone with an eBike to purposely take away a KOM from someone who earned it with only human power. That is just petty and hurtful for no reason.

    That said I am sure some Strava eBike users are just clueless and don't even see the eBike designation for the ride.

    If you see a KOM that is obviously done via Motor, flag it and move on with your life.

    The part I love about strava is tracking my mileage each month and trying to improve each month. For now and the next few years of my life I have no hope of even beating my own personal bests because I constantly have a passenger:

    E-Bikes & Strava controversy hits WSJ-mk-jak-tehachapi.jpg


    Also, thank you to everyone for keeping this discussion civil, these sorts of topics have a tendency to go off the rails.
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  76. #176
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    Riding against your own times should be all itís used for anyway. With todayís technology who knows what others are doing to get better times. Maybe some 15 year old is hacking in and boosting times just for the fun of it, who knows. An eBike cheater is just one side of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  77. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by hesitationpoint View Post
    I personally have no interest in an ebike but I don't see what the big deal is for people who want them. Aside from some of the hardcore fitness folks on the pointy end of the distribution (I'm one of them btw), most casual mountain bikers are doing it for fun not to crush climbs in record time. This is why trail bikes sell much more than XC bikes and lift assisted parks are popular. Even many of the regulars in my area would prefer to use rotating trucks serving as "lifts" at trails with lots of elevation rather than climb them.
    Seems that ebikes solve a lot of these problems.

    My only concern is land access and how park managers view ebikes, but if that is solved, then I'd say more power to people who want them.
    This is how I feel. As long as e-bikes aren't affecting trail access (or if they were shown to be much more detrimental to trails), I have very little problem with them despite not having any real desire for one myself. I don't really care about Strava or the sanctity of it's records.

    I enjoy riding ski lifts to the top of hills and I can imagine a new wave of bike parks enabled by ebikes that don't need an expensive lift infrastructure. Whether the extra weight would make the down less fun, though, I don't know.

  78. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Riding against your own times should be all itís used for anyway. With todayís technology who knows what others are doing to get better times. Maybe some 15 year old is hacking in and boosting times just for the fun of it, who knows. An eBike cheater is just one side of it.



    I think people should do with it what they want as long as they're not bothering anyone else. You're right, there are 100 ways to cheat but thankfully no one seems to in the areas where I've used it, everyone near the top is legit. If someone wants to chase a virtual trophy I say have at it, why not?
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  79. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Riding against your own times should be all itís used for anyway. With todayís technology who knows what others are doing to get better times. Maybe some 15 year old is hacking in and boosting times just for the fun of it, who knows. An eBike cheater is just one side of it.
    There could be some sock accounts on there too!
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  80. #180
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    A top ebiker on Strava is kinda like valedictorian in summer school. JMO.
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  81. #181
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    Time to load Strava and go snipe MTB trails. I'll throw on the bluetooth speaker to boot.

  82. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    I think people should do with it what they want as long as they're not bothering anyone else. You're right, there are 100 ways to cheat but thankfully no one seems to in the areas where I've used it, everyone near the top is legit. If someone wants to chase a virtual trophy I say have at it, why not?
    True, I was wrong saying there is only one way it should be used. But there is that pesky competition thing that tends to keep ďsomeĒ from following trail etiquette rules and slowing down for other trail users just to keep on pace with the kom holder. So yes, for those that abuse it this way it does hurt our sport by pissing off other trail users. And yes there are those out there that need the high of beating the kom and will ride this way.
    Last edited by DIRTJUNKIE; 1 Week Ago at 08:16 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  83. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutch View Post
    Well, this wimpy non mtbr also owns a turbo S. In fact my whole family rides them. Anyrate, I will no longer ride a Mtb. Iíve been riding emtbs for the last 3 years and mtbs my entire life. Iím not fat, old, or out of shape. I value my free time and am going to squeeze the most fun out of it I can and the ebikes do it for me. Just my opinion. People that donít like them, idc, they are entitled to their opinion also. As emtbrs even though 95% of us (just guessing) are current or past mtbrs, we need to set an example and stand for ourselves.
    Well...hell yeah! Do what you find fun. But you're exactly right. You've given up mountain biking, an entirely human-powered recreational activity, for a different activity.

    If mountain biking is a chore that keeps you from squeezing any fun out of it then by all means switch to motor-biking. I don't even mind if you ride on trails. Most of the ones I have ridden on are multi-use anyway and I have had nothing but good encounters with dirt-bikers and ATV riders.

    But it's not the future of mountain biking. The future is technological advancement with the limitation that the bike is entirely human powered. The future is not lazy fat people too tired to pedal up a hill.

  84. #184
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    I have yet to see a disabled or old person riding a e-mtb The last 2 I saw were very fit 20-somethings crushing the Klondike trails in Moab. We were having a snack and as he passed the no ebike sign the leader said to his friend "turn it to turbo mode, it gets steep here."
    That is the problem. It isn't the responsible trail user, it is the strava headed cheating dill hole.
    Back at home we have areas that can have bikes, horses, dirt bikes, and dog walkers. If we respect each other than there is no problem.
    If you want to use the uplift debate, think about it. I don't want these dill holes riding max speed on any multi use trail.

  85. #185
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    Just an observation that I have made before: I don't understand the hate people have for mountain biking while they are doing it. Last fall I was on the Holdridge Trail in Holly, Michigan which is pretty steep and technical (in places). I passed a guy who had stopped by the side of the trail and he seemed angry that the trail was so difficult. The natural question would be, "So why are you out here, buddy?"

    Same with mud and bad weather. It's a hobby. If you hate it so much that you avoid doing it than get another hobby. That goes double for deciding you need a motor to make it easier.

    The corollary to this are the people who get mad at new bike technology and new standards. Again, it's a hobby, not a job. I enjoy spending money on bike stuff. I do pretty well but almost everybody at any level can afford some disposable income towards their bikes.

  86. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by tom tom View Post
    And not one made by a E-BIKE........So who's turning the trails to crap??
    That's not damage. My trails get like that but after a little dry weather those spots disappear. It's just some ruts in a muddy area.

  87. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by rlee View Post
    I have yet to see a disabled or old person riding a e-mtb The last 2 I saw were very fit 20-somethings crushing the Klondike trails in Moab. We were having a snack and as he passed the no ebike sign the leader said to his friend "turn it to turbo mode, it gets steep here."
    That is the problem. It isn't the responsible trail user, it is the strava headed cheating dill hole.
    Back at home we have areas that can have bikes, horses, dirt bikes, and dog walkers. If we respect each other than there is no problem.
    If you want to use the uplift debate, think about it. I don't want these dill holes riding max speed on any multi use trail.
    Letís coin a phrase here: dillholeoEassisted butt munches.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  88. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    When you buy an ebike, are you obligated to turn in your testicles, or is that optional?

    57 here and still climbing with a singlespeed. An e-bike is not an option. That's like giving up and that's just not gonna happen.
    I'm a better rider in my mid-fifties than I was at 30 or 40. And I can ride everyday and don't need a week to recover.

    Yes, age is real but some of the younger guys don't understand that, barring some catastrophe (like cancer or a ridiculously severe heart attack), you can stay fit and athletic into your sixties at least if not the seventies.

    Would I rather be younger? Sure. But aging isn't that bad. I'm not a professional athlete so if I slow down a bit there's no penalty.

    I also have to say that the "utes" of today are not exactly paragons of physical fitness. I'm an ER doctor. I would not trade bodies with many of my patients who are half my age but basically just sit around, get fat, and smoke weed.

  89. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    Well, doesn't look very useful around me. First segment I clicked on was a beginner trail right out of the parking lot. It's very flat and pretty twisty:

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    I'd say #5 & 6 are a maybe but still questionable. And probably too fast to be riding on a beginner trail that very often has other users and isn't directional.

    Here's a downhill run with jumps. Still rather twisty, not straight at all and not really that big of a hill (I mostly ride with my tires on the ground):

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    So not sure what's going on with these, maybe just bad gps? There's not really ways to short cut these segments. I've had Runkeeper come up with some ridiculous numbers at times.


    Looked at my road ride a couple of weeks ago on the rails to trails. The speeds look a lot more reasonable. I notice a lot of the segments are titled with the word "sprint". So I guess people ride with the plan of hitting certain segments hard. I'd rather just ride than trying to conserve energy on sections and then sprint on segments trying to move up the ladder. When I ride, I may alternate between riding hard and riding easy, but I don't want to have to keep up a schedule of when to do so, that starts to be work. This is one reason I've stayed off of Strava in the past, I don't want to get caught up in it where it detracts from my riding.

    But it will work well for tracking my rides per bike; something I couldn't do in Runkeeper.
    Is there a road or highway that runs near those trails? One of my favorite segments of local singletrack parallels a fire road. All the top times are around 25mph, something that is physically impossible on this trail. When you look at their Strava runs they were hammering down the fireroad and Strava just assumed they were riding the segment that is some 10-20yds away.
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  90. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    Do you think you are immortal or something? Wait until you hit more and more job/kid/financial pressures, occasional injuries, random sickness, etc. I have news for you. Those unicorns you see kicking ass over age 60 are just that, unicorns, and for the most part when they were in their 40's they would have smoked you by hours. If you aren't *killing" their times in your early 40's, you'll be struggling by your 60's like everyone else.

    There is a big difference between athletic ability between 40 and 50, but the difference between 50 and 60 is ten times more. I didn't believe that at age 50, but I do at nearly 59.

    Look at Leadville for 60+. Yes, the top guy did an 8:40 but look at number 11. 10:40. Every single rider who finishes is awesome, over-60? Incredible. But the people who can go under 9 hours over age 60 are not even 1%er, we're talking a much more exclusive group relative to the population. More like one in a million. Why aren't there hundreds of over-60 riders at Leadville? Twenty years ago there were hundreds of over-40's, and the race has become exponentially more popular since then. Where are they?

    A good friend of mine is a strong road racer who is 50. He laughed at my ebikes when I got them. He always bragged about how he had never had any kind of injury more serious that road rash from bike racing. Last summer he crashed and ended up with some pretty major surgery. He isn't laughing at my ebikes now, he is trying to recover, trying to maintain some semblance of fitness. It takes *way* longer to recover from injuries in your 50's. A lot of people never get back to form. I had major neck surgery at 48 and I've never been the same. I have a couple other injuries since and they take forever to heal. There is nothing wrong with me, that is just they way it works.

    I hope you are an immortal unicorn, but don't count on it.

    Most people are not very fit. If I took a random sample of 100 60-year-olds I would have a motley collection of obese, out-of-shape, smokers who can barely walk up a flight of stairs without having a heart attack. Most of these people were never very fit, had no interest in physical activity, and hardly did any.

    But if I took a sample of 100 60-year-old dedicated mountain bikers (or runners or road riders), while it's true that some would have been waylaid by cancer, arthritis, and other afflictions of an aging body, many of them would still be pretty fit. Not necessarily fit enough to win Leadville but still very capable and fast.

    You cannot possible have more job, financial, kid, and other pressures than I do. And I work a lot. But I still make time to stay fit and at 55, barring some catastrophe, I am planning to stay that way for many more years.

  91. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailuropoda View Post
    ....... That goes double for deciding you need a motor to make it easier.

    The corollary to this are the people who get mad at new bike technology and new standards. ........
    Uh,....ok. So people who don't like new technology suck, but people who buy e-bikes (new technology) suck too.
    Gotcha.

    Personally I have a regular bike and an e-bike. The e-bike is excellent for those days when I've only got an hour to ride. Instead of spending half of that time on one climb, I can get several runs in. It's also great for getting my wife out an on a bike again.
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  92. #192
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    Everybody just ride and do what you want. Who are we to judge? Itís been my experience that the real hard core riders - racers, never talk about how bad ass they are and will ride with anyone. Maybe the ones I know just arenít bike snobs?
    ďAs a top contributor to the Sierra Club, I can honestly say, the next time you wipe, thank a logger.Ē

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    Quote Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun View Post
    People that use skilifts and shuttles to go uphill complain about people using ebikes to go up.
    Most brilliant post in this thread.

    Around me, ebikers are poeple the could be fit enough, but choose not to be.
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  94. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by J_Westy View Post

    Around me, ebikers are people that could be fit enough, but choose not to be.
    Yep

    And we could apply that to society in general : people choosing not to be in shape.
    We can see it in stats about obesity too.
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

  95. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLYINW View Post
    Time to load Strava and go snipe MTB trails. I'll throw on the bluetooth speaker to boot.
    Cranking maroon 5 or nickel back?

  96. #196
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    I still have the KOM for going to get my mail and I did it without an E-bike.
    Dont make me go all Jonathan Winters on this gas station.

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