Does reach take into account stem?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Does reach take into account stem?

    For the reach measurement, does this take into account the stem that's on the bike?

  2. #2
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    It shouldn’t.


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  3. #3
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    No reach is a fixed dimension-middle of crank to middle of head tube--parallel to head tube.
    Stem certainly affects bike fit both standing and sitting but not reach

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  5. #5
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    no, a frame's reach is for the frame only. when you buy a bare frame with no parts on it, the reach is listed because the frame has its own reach. stem has nothing to do with it.

    I've long used the term "effective reach" (and the complimentary effective stack), which is the horizontal distance from the BB to the grips. this takes into account frame's reach plus the parts you put on the bike and how you set them up. no complete retail bike can list this because it's highly dependent on how each individual bike is set up, including handlebar roll.

  6. #6
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    there is a big diff between a bike with 665 stack and 480 reach vs a stack of 600 and 480 reach. more so as the head angle gets slacker

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuse6F View Post
    there is a big diff between a bike with 665 stack and 480 reach vs a stack of 600 and 480 reach. more so as the head angle gets slacker
    Can you please write out what the big difference is, so we aren't left trying to mind read what you mean?

    Bike with 480mm reach and 665mm stack would be different from 480mm reach and 600mm stack:
    - grip will be far further from BB, but closer to the body
    - front wheel will be far further ahead of the BB

    What else?
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  8. #8
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    He’s saying the span is different, and that slacker bikes “shrink” their effective reach when you account for headset /spacers and stem height (because the forks steerer tube is pointed more at you the slacker it gets).

    If reach is the “X” measurement, and stack is the “Y” measurement, then span is the hypotenuse, or the actual distance “As the crow flies” between the center of the bottom bracket and the top of the head tube.

    So bikes with identical reach measurements, but wildly different stack measurements, won’t feel the same “size”.
    Last edited by ocnLogan; 3 Weeks Ago at 03:42 PM.

  9. #9
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    no, reach doesnt include the stem. reach is measured from the top and center of the headtube, to the center of the bottom bracket, parallel to the ground


  10. #10
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    Does reach take into account stem?

    Quote Originally Posted by Varaxis View Post
    Can you please write out what the big difference is, so we aren't left trying to mind read what you mean?

    Bike with 480mm reach and 665mm stack would be different from 480mm reach and 600mm stack:
    - grip will be far further from BB, but closer to the body
    - front wheel will be far further ahead of the BB

    What else?
    Here is the difference for any given rider: If two frames have the same reach but different stacks, then in order to run the bars at the same height, you will need to run more spacers for the one with the lower stack. Since the head tube (steering axis) is angled back, you end up effectively shortening the frame’s reach and you will need to run a longer stem to get the same reach to the bars.

    We measure reach to the center of the top of the head tube, but the significance of that location is that it is along the steering axis. And as you go up that axis, you also move back.

    This may just be another version of what you were saying, I had trouble following.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  11. #11
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    agree with all. but if all you can get is a 480 reach on two bikes, same hta but diff stack, there is more wheelbase out front on the higher stack bike.

  12. #12
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    Does reach take into account stem?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fuse6F View Post
    agree with all. but if all you can get is a 480 reach on two bikes, same hta but diff stack, there is more wheelbase out front on the higher stack bike.
    Sure, the one with the taller stack fits longer than the other, and requires a shorter stem. That may be good of may be bad, depending on whether you need a longer or shorter bike.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  13. #13
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    im super tall.

    my bike has 686 stack and 67 degree hta

    a bike with 646 stack requires 17mm longer reach to have an equivalent front center.

    even if you compensate with a longer stem on a taller steerer tube, you will never move the front wheel out. the bike will always feel short.

    so keep front center in mind when making your final choice between two bikes.

  14. #14
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    I'll say it again: effective downtube length. this is the hypotenuse of the triangle created by the frame's reach and stack. it is the best reference point that tells you how far your feet will be from your hands, which is what determines how a bike really fits you. it's the first part of determining your bike's RAD measurement.

  15. #15
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    Does reach take into account stem?

    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    I'll say it again: effective downtube length. this is the hypotenuse of the triangle created by the frame's reach and stack. it is the best reference point that tells you how far your feet will be from your hands, which is what determines how a bike really fits you. it's the first part of determining your bike's RAD measurement.
    It tells you how far apart they are, but not in what direction. Two frames can have the same measurement, but one be bolt upright and the other one super ling and low.

    Stack and reach together gives you a single point.

    I have a somewhat hard time fitting bikes, especially road bikes. There are many frames out there with the same “effective down tube length” as my bikes that will never fit me because the reach is just too long.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    It tells you how far apart they are, but not in one direction. Two frames can have the same measurement, but one be bolt upright and the other one super ling and low.
    yes, that's why it's a reference point, not a definitive one. you can start with EDT and know that the bike CAN fit you. then you have to look at the reach/stack ratio and see if you can reasonably get a stem and handlebar to put things where you want them for the bike to handle the way you want it.

    for most mountain bikes, EDT would be close enough that it could be made to work within reason with a tweak to stem length, angle, spacer stack, handlebar dimensions, etc. if you have a princess-and-the-pea situation where everything has to be within 1 mm of your whole world falls apart, yeah, EDT is not enough. if you're comparing a super entry-level bike path beach cruiser to a track bike, EDT does not mean the same thing.

    I have a MASSIVE spreadsheet of frame reach/stack measurements that I used to find EDT and the angle. the only bikes that could not be made to work because of the excessive reach/stack ratio, even though they have the same EDT, are EXTREMELY long bikes that are way outside the norm (think Pole and the like).

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