COVID-19 and your riding.- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    COVID-19 and your riding.

    The other thread will be moved from here I'm sure and rightfully so. That said, I think there is a worthy discussion as it relates to our riding.

    How will your riding be impacted? At this moment I see two impacts for me:

    1. Riding will become more or less the only time I leave the house. I think the ten minute drive to the trailhead is safe enough, and the trails are of course safe if I can keep a distance from folks I see. Hoping my riding increases a bit, but it's hard to focus on that with what's at stake.

    2. This is really the reason I started the thread - we all need to re-evaluate our riding styles to make sure we don't add to what is very likely to be an overwhelmed healthcare system in the coming weeks. I don't usually say this, but I think now is NOT the time to go 'full send.'

  2. #2
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    I pretty much wrote off my training/racing for the season. Watching and waiting to see how this all plays out and hoping for a strong cyclocross season since cross country racing is pretty much out the window. I guess I'll mostly be doing long rides at a low intensity, my favorite.

  3. #3
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    My trails are more XC than full send so I don't have to adjust my riding style too much. Plus, I'm slow at this time of year anyways, just coming out of base miles and barely beginning my intervals. So yeah, it's a good time to take it easy all around.

  4. #4
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    If I hear/see that my local hospital is at max capacity then I'm not going to hit any big jumps or drops, or do anything that pushes my comfort level.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDwayyo View Post
    The other thread will be moved from here I'm sure and rightfully so. That said, I think there is a worthy discussion as it relates to our riding.

    How will your riding be impacted?
    No impact. Why would it? I am not afraid to leave my house and even biking with a group we don't get all up in each other's space. Riding Mtn bikes is not like other team sports where you 'lean' on other people. As for my riding style... Why would I adjust that? I never took risks that would land me in the hospital in the first place.
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  6. #6
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    I doubt it will affect my bike riding at all. It'll be snowboard season here for another month or two.

    As far as THAT goes, I may stop taking the free bus to the ski hill. I guess since I'm in one of a few states with no cases (yet) it's easy for me to brush it off for now.

    I am interested to see what my grocery store looks like when I go in a few hours.

  7. #7
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    Zero effect.

  8. #8
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    I might be able to ride more if I have to work from home. I drive 45 minutes each way to work and that's 1.5 hours that I can spend doing something else if they make us stay at home.

  9. #9
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    prob won't affect my social riding, but I did apply to do some guiding this summer and it will prob affect that. not sure to what extent yet.

    it's affecting other work already, though (I work in a school, and they are in contingency planning mode as other states shut down their schools). they sent kids home with laptops and music instruments in case our state closes school over the weekend and mon got turned into a staff workday to finalize those plans.

  10. #10
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    Well, breathing the air from your buddy if you follow.
    Sharing a bag of chips and a drink the parking lot after.
    Shaking hands or a high-five during/after the ride.

    I'm sort of against altering my riding, but not totally. If I ride out of my normal way I'll be sloppy and make a mistake.
    Maybe I won't hit the jump line just to remove risk of a crash. But I don't want to "slow down' just to be safer because that when it is less natural.

  11. #11
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    No high fives mean that I'll be turning down the radness. Wouldn't want any of my buddies to get too stoked and have instinct kick in.

  12. #12
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    I'm leaving to race all weekend in an hour. Life goes on.
    Ripping trails and tipping ales

  13. #13
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    Local races for the next few weeks are canceled. State has restricted gatherings of 200+ppl.

    Currently have a May trip to Moab I am reconsidering. I don't see any impact on local after work and weekend mtb rides. I'll probably avoid group road rides as there's too much risk--ever drafted off someone and had their sweat hit you?? Yeah, that stuff happens sometimes.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusBrody View Post
    No high fives mean that I'll be turning down the radness...
    I've been filling my Camelbak with hand sanitizer.
    What, me worry?

  15. #15
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    I just won't stop to lick any doorknobs on my rides....you know, play it safe.

  16. #16
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    Will not affect my riding time at all. If I'm going to die it will be riding bike or having sex and extremely happy.
    Ride

  17. #17
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    Consider the space that is needed in hospitals for people who are in mortal danger and I need of ER facilities. If you're in there with a broken leg, that's a space that an old person might need for a ventilator. If some dumbass vector visited grandma and now she's on Death's door with pneumonia, and you broke a leg because you were chasing a KOM, YOU deserve to suffer in the waiting room.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    Consider the space that is needed in hospitals for people who are in mortal danger and I need of ER facilities. If you're in there with a broken leg, that's a space that an old person might need for a ventilator. If some dumbass vector visited grandma and now she's on Death's door with pneumonia, and you broke a leg because you were chasing a KOM, YOU deserve to suffer in the waiting room.
    As a corollary to that idea, if all the beds are filled and someone ends up in the ER with severe trauma, what would normally be a more-or-less straightforward process of treatment then inpatient admission, the staff will now have to triage and decide who gets treated, grandma with pneumonia or motor vehicle accident with polytrauma. Someone won't get the acute care they normally would get.

  19. #19
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    little effect on my riding, might make less people go out to the trails but I'll still be there.

  20. #20
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    I had swine flu about ten years or so ago when it was a big deal, still here

    I'll just keep riding

  21. #21
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    I will likely ride more than normal, especially if I have extended time off work, which seems likely at this point. I can ride right from my house and not encounter a single person.

    Now, if this pesky winter would just end...

  22. #22
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    I rode this morning at daybreak and only saw one other rider.

    He seemed a little peeved when I asked if I could have a drink from his camelback.


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  23. #23
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    I'm still sticking to road riding as my broken bones still need some time to 100% heal so I"ll just stick to that, possibly longer than I had planned (another month).
    This post is a natural product. Variances in spelling & grammar should be appreciated as part of its character & beauty.

  24. #24
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    No impact for me except for closed trails due to 3 days of continual rain and more to come. My daily job hasn't changed and I still can't work if I break my leg. I leave the house daily without my bubble and went to Disneyland 3 days ago. Still no toilet paper to buy because of the idiots hoarding 676 rolls.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chicane32 View Post
    No impact for me except for closed trails due to 3 days of continual rain and more to come. My daily job hasn't changed and I still can't work if I break my leg. I leave the house daily without my bubble and went to Disneyland 3 days ago. Still no toilet paper to buy because of the idiots hoarding 676 rolls.
    I also live in SoCal and am super bummed about the rain coming at this time. I would love to be out on the trails with my kids enjoying the outdoors, but they are way to wet.
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  26. #26
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    Its -20C here, which is like -20F Id guess. Another -10C to make it -30C with windchill, probably -40F who knows. Tomorrow -10C + -5C wc. Then Monday, zero'ish.
    Got one thing to do on wed.
    Might kick it outta the house, bring bike with me, bring fishing gear with me, find me some bush by the ocean with +10C day weather, probably 0C night. MrBuddyHeater purchase.
    Need a trailer too.
    Planes a no go with all the crap Im bringing
    Bus it is, 12hr ride.

  27. #27
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    Short term my riding plans are impacted significantly.

    My wife returns from the US today and anybody who has been in the US or has been in contact with someone who has been in the US is to do a 14-day self-quarantine. So, I am going to be riding where is very few people and I am going to be doing a lot of riding indoors.

    Long term. Well I usually travel all over the world in the summer. That is probably not happening this summer, which means I will get to explore the trails of BC. Which really is that bad. And in all likelihood my work is going to be closed for months which means I will have a lot time to ride.
    "The best pace is suicide pace, and today is a good day to die." Steve Prefontaine

  28. #28
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    I ride alone, so perfect hobby for social-distancing. My other hobby is working on my bikes, also alone. All those years I thought I'm antisocial, but now the real genius of my hobbies becomes apparent :-)

    I probably have less time to ride since my 8 year old daughter has no school. My wife closed her office to clients. I'm working from home (my workplace is a cesspool with public all over and my employer so far ignores the problem) and also decided to get groceries home-delivered to avoid unnecessary crowds. I was at grocery store on Saturday when it opened. Much was already gone (at opening time!) and people stormed in. I'm sure next weekend it will be worse.

    I also have my other workout stuff (well, just some dumbbells, and yoga with no hardware needed) at home and never signed up for a gym. Another genius idea as it turns out. Except groceries i bought 99% of my things online already, which also turns out to ge good.

    The only impact on bikes is an RD I ordered from alieexpress takes forever (from china). It is just for a project bike, though. So I put in orders for Amazon/ebay with US shippers. I hope all the starving children and war-zone refugees feel sorry for my suffering to have to switch vendors. (just to clarify, this is sarcasm...)

    I'm not browsing auction/craigslist/FB for used bikes anymore since I don't want to meet people. Same goes for not selling old parts for the time being. Again, I hope the people in Yemen and Syria will feel sorry for me and my suffering in this time in crisis.

    Everyone can think of this what they want. Maybe next week we all laugh about the fools that panicked. But I err on the side of caution.

    On the upside, since I'm home with my daughter, we get to ride together more. 1 mile with my daughter is worth more than the coolest 100 mile ride alone.
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  29. #29
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    Just keep doing what I’ve been doing.....

  30. #30
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    Don’t need advice or leadership on that one it seems.
    All of the people smarter than me are telling everyone to do the things I’ve done my whole life.

  31. #31
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    We're finally getting a spell of good riding weather and I feel like crap. I highly doubt it's Covid, but this is the second bout of flu that I've had this season.

    My bikes are all tuned up and ready to go, but here I am sitting around the house watching Netflix. And posting here.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  32. #32
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  33. #33
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    Rained all night long, trails saturated.
    I’d give the new Government funded Greenway a try but it is 6 miles of paved path along a regularly and closely vented sewer main. Great design there. Horrible foul sewer gas vented where the intent of the path is to elevate respiration rate.
    I smell a shady deal between a developer, tax breaks, and Federal Green funding.
    May try riding it with a gas mask at some point.
    The genius of Central Planning.

  34. #34
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    I wonder if in countries with lock downs like Italy, do the authorities prevent you from going out riding?

    Anyone in Italy or somewhere with similar lockdowns?

    I was thinking if we get something similar, will I still be able to ride out to the TH from my house? If I'm clever I can get all the way on dirt in stealth mode. I have also been practicing extreme caution for quite some time now because I don't heal well any more, so I got that bit covered... more chance of me falling down in the bathtub...
    It's all Here. Now.

  35. #35
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    Somehow I don’t think one or a few riding bikes in the desert will be a priority.
    Circumventing any protocol probably won’t be necessary in such cases.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    I wonder if in countries with lock downs like Italy, do the authorities prevent you from going out riding?

    Anyone in Italy or somewhere with similar lockdowns?

    I was thinking if we get something similar, will I still be able to ride out to the TH from my house? If I'm clever I can get all the way on dirt in stealth mode. I have also been practicing extreme caution for quite some time now because I don't heal well any more, so I got that bit covered... more chance of me falling down in the bathtub...
    all Italians supposed to stay in their homes including bikers

  37. #37
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    No change here. Trails have been closed all winter. Trails never froze solid enough to ride anything. Never dried out either. Very aggravating.

  38. #38
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    Since they just closed down the schools here for 2 weeks. I'll be doing a lot less riding by myself and a whole lot more with my son.

  39. #39
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    Have any of you that either organize group rides or participate in group rides heard of group rides being cancelled?

    Or has participation been less in the last week or 2?
    Are you expecting to cancel or see a decline in participation?

    I'm not trying to start an argument and not asking how stupid you think it is.
    It's a serious question about the participation level of group rides that happen weekly.
    I know many of you organize/participate in group rides.

    Speaking specifically mountain bike rides.

  40. #40
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    My riding is gonna explode. Starting this week, I work Wednesday 6 am to 10 pm and Friday 6 am to 10 pm. Theyre gonna pay me for 40 hours. This is instead of working Monday thru Friday 6 am to 2 pm.
    Im gonna have three extra days to get a ride in.
    I like turtles

  41. #41
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    I haven't seen any group rides cancel out, but I've seen bike events cancel.

    I went out for a ride with a few guys today. Went to DuPont State Forest...on a dry Sunday. There were plenty of folks there, but I'd say probably half of what you'd expect to see on a dry Sunday in March. I wasn't looking at all the license plates, but I suspect that most of the people out riding were locals, and that tourist traffic has crashed. Plenty of out-of-state license plates on the interstate, but none had bikes that I could tell. I hope they were all heading home.

    A bunch of taprooms and bars/pubs/restaurants are starting to close here. Not all, but a good number. Some are just restricting capacity, only using outdoor space, or both. School closure was announced yesterday, so I'm off work for a month (~2 week state level closure brings us to spring break, which is another 2 weeks after that, and so far, the school isn't changing that schedule). The guys I was riding with today run lots of events, and they haven't made any announcements, but it seems that the event planning industry is expecting to clear out all of April and all of May, too.

  42. #42
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    COVID-19 and your riding.

    I went for a ride today and joined a couple of guys I’d just met (I’m just getting back into the sport after many years away) and got my first elbow bump when departing my newfound friends.


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  43. #43
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    Woke up at 6AM for a ski day at Stratton Vermont. 10 minutes after leaving the house my buddy called and said 'turn around'! The resort had just sent out notifications that all VT resorts had made decision this AM to close until further notice due to virus concerns.

    Turned around and unloaded ski's, loaded my bike and went for a ride. Nobody is closing the woods! Nothing's changed thankfully.
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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Train Wreck View Post
    I pretty much wrote off my training/racing for the season. Watching and waiting to see how this all plays out and hoping for a strong cyclocross season since cross country racing is pretty much out the window. I guess I'll mostly be doing long rides at a low intensity, my favorite.
    This is my philosophy too.

  45. #45
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    If they do a nationwide lockdown in Canada (supposedly going to be announced tomorrow), I don't know if that would mean no non-essential movement other than gas, grocery or medicine. If that's the case, I'm gonna go bat sh!t cray cray.

  46. #46
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    No effect. I rode through the Swine flu pandemic, we all did. Been riding 26 yrs, told myself no more chances after 55. Rarely crash hard enough to draw blood, maybe once every other year.

  47. #47
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    I usually ride by myself or with my fifteen year old son so no change for me.

    Theyre throwing around the term Social Distancing on the news this morning. I have been preparing for this all my life.
    I like turtles

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDwayyo View Post
    How will your riding be impacted?
    No impact for me. The only thing impacting my rides is the aggravating, non stop rain we're experiencing. Trails open for two days, closed for 2 weeks. Over and over. Been like this for months. SUCKS!
    You didn't quit riding because you're old, you're old because you quit riding.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYrr496 View Post
    I have been preparing for this all my life.
    Har! Me too. Check my forum name.

    Trails were crazy crowed yesterday. Way way more parents riding with kids than I've ever seen before. Kids are dirty little disease vectors. So much for social distancing.
    What, me worry?

  50. #50
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    Cough horn......

  51. #51
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    ill be riding more, they are likely going to shut my work down

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    Har! Me too. Check my forum name.
    I like turtles

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Rider View Post
    Have any of you that either organize group rides or participate in group rides heard of group rides being cancelled?

    Or has participation been less in the last week or 2?
    Are you expecting to cancel or see a decline in participation?

    I'm not trying to start an argument and not asking how stupid you think it is.
    It's a serious question about the participation level of group rides that happen weekly.
    I know many of you organize/participate in group rides.

    Speaking specifically mountain bike rides.
    Yes, Nemba for one. Chapter meetings and organized group rides, cancelled. Small meet up groups still going on.

  54. #54
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    it looks like some gravel races and the Handmade show I wanted to attend are being cancelled or postponed. that will not stop me from riding though. I'll be a little more cautious on the trail, considering how precious hospital space is going to be in the near future.

  55. #55
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    How will this impact my riding? Not at all. I'll be in the woods, usually solo. A few races have been canceled locally, but I'm optimistic the summer endurance events will go on as scheduled.

    I'm glad it's happening this time of year and not summer, fall, or even winter. It will all be over before mid summer.
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  56. #56
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    Interesting outcome of covid19

    A Surge in Biking to Avoid Crowded Trains in N.Y.C.

    COVID-19 and your riding.-13nyvirus-biking1-superjumbo.jpg

    Halimah Marcus’s bike had been collecting dust for five years.

    But as coronavirus fears exploded in New York, she pumped air into the tires and replaced the batteries in the light mounted on the handle bar.

    By Monday, she was biking daily to work instead of taking the R subway train.

    “It reduced my anxiety,” said Ms. Marcus, 34, the executive director of a nonprofit digital publisher in Downtown Brooklyn. “For me, riding is manageable, and I felt it would be beneficial to my mental health.”

    She has not been back on the subway. And she has a lot of companyin the bike lanes.

    A growing wave of New Yorkers are embracing cycling to get to work and around the city as their regular subway and bus commutes have suddenly become fraught with potential perils, from possibly virus-tainted surfaces to strangers sneezing and coughing on fellow passengers.

    sauce https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/14/n...BHrt1jaf1kQZw8
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    Eat your veggies

  57. #57
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    Rigid SS 29er
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    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  58. #58
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    I was planning on riding some more since the county I work in just got shut down.

    ... but I'm getting sick right now. Im sort of concerned.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    I was planning on riding some more since the county I work in just got shut down.

    ... but I'm getting sick right now. Im sort of concerned.
    Oh crap. Seriously? I hope it's just a cold.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    Oh crap. Seriously? I hope it's just a cold.
    Yeah! I'm hoping it's just poor timing and a run of the mill cold, but jeez. It's making me nervous. No fever, so I'm hoping all is well.

  61. #61
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    I am in the UK and have just been out to Bike Park Wales on Sunday, a venue with uplift https://www.bikeparkwales.com/ It was awesome and really enjoyed it, but visitor numbers were down and it felt like the last big day out for a while. Unfortunately I can see that closing for a period of time - they get a few hundred visitors on busy days.

    Planning to ride locally at home (lucky to have trails I can ride to right out of the house), but will try and ride within my limits and will have to cut out the coffee/cake/end of ride pub stops I suspect. Our government has just announced a recommendation to not visit (effectively forcing a close down of) pubs, clubs and larger venues.

    I have a colleague in Italy who says things are pretty bad there. Italy and Spain have stopped people running/riding for leisure; hope we don't need to do that in the UK.

    I think a lot of people on the forum are US based; stay safe and I hope you don't get it like it seems to be spreading in Europe.

  62. #62
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    Hasn't impacted my riding at all. I tend to ride quite often with one friend who is well matched to crank out anywhere from 10 - 100 miles wherever we decide to go (C&O Canal/dirt/gravel/rocks/urban). I also ride with a few small groups of riders and we keep a bit of distance between us.

    I wish everyone well and, be safe out there! Definitely not the time to get busted up on a ride and end up having to take a trip to Hospital!
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  63. #63
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    At my job They’re just instituted a new work from home policy. If you’ve been exposed or you or someone in your household has compromised immunity, or if you need to stay home to take care of your kids, you can work from home and not use leave time.

    If you’re healthy and your family is healthy, report to the the office as usual.


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  64. #64
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    I'm going to continue riding, but going to be keeping it low key, sticking to "dirt roadie" style rides, etc. Don't want to end up in the ER while all this stuff is going on.

  65. #65
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    It might be tempting to go on a MTB road trip. But PLEASE DO NOT travel. These little resort towns can not handle an outbreak and you could be a carrier bringing it into town. Stay on your local trails

    https://www.sltrib.com/news/environm...avirus-threat/

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmmUT View Post
    It might be tempting to go on a MTB road trip. But PLEASE DO NOT travel. These little resort towns can not handle an outbreak and you could be a carrier bringing it into town. Stay on your local trails

    https://www.sltrib.com/news/environm...avirus-threat/
    Tourist from NY brought it to my area late last week. And because of how cases are reported (by county of residence, not county of presence when identified), it doesn't show up as being "here" yet, even though local officials aren't screwing around.

    I got out on a ride the other day and the traffic levels were down. But we've started a rainy stretch that looks like it could last a week or so, so I'll be finding other stuff to do. Maybe some skills work in the neighborhood if we get smaller dry spells. Worked out an agreement with a friend from college to do some video conferencing guitar practice/lessons starting tomorrow, too.

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    I am going to slow down and stick to more XC and gravel type stuff plus indoor trainer and some hiking. I don't want to end up in a hospital right now for a number of reasons.

    Also put the BMX to the side for a bit. I may work on building a pump track in the backyard depending on how long this goes.
    Ragley Big Wig, Sunday Soundwave (BMX), 91 Schwinn High Plain (single speed "gravel" bike), Nashbar CXSS (on trainer)

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    It is going to impact my riding big time.
    First: I have a compromised immune system right now and probably for at least the next 6 months and so I have a pretty good chance of dying if I get it, especially since I can have some complications with receiving oxygen.

    Second: I am a teacher and we got an early Spring Break, and I was originally planning on going to St. George and then down to AZ. That most likely isn't going to happen as I assume a lockdown is coming and it is not a good idea to head to small towns etc. Actually originally originally I was supposed to be heading to Ireland.

    Third: I was also going to head to the PNW/Canada this summer to ride MTB for about 3 weeks and that is looking to be questionable.

    Fourth: End of the summer I was going to ride from Canada to Mexico with my little brother since he is finishing grad school and it might be the last time he has a summer off. Again looking dicey.

    Right now I am planning on doing some close short MTB rides away from people, road rides, and if we go into lock down ride the trainer. I have zero stamina and strength right now so my goal is just to start building back up to where I am not pushing my bike on the uphills.

  69. #69
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    I'm not sure yet. About half of the places I ride are State/County facilities, which, as of right now aren't closed per se, but are being heavily discouraged from use. That leaves the smaller trail systems. I also share the concern about getting injured while riding and needing emergency care.

    Everything just feels weird and uncertain right now. I'm in a populated area with a County on lockdown just south of me.
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    right now trails would be open..if it hadn't been raining for a week straight.. =\

    I'm getting baaaaad cabin fever (not actual fever) .... as soon as the rain stops I'm going for a ride..

    My concern is they will lock the place down more by the time the rain stops...

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    Upped my riding amidst all the covid hysteria and bad weather.. trail quarantine!

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    As a corollary to that idea, if all the beds are filled and someone ends up in the ER with severe trauma, what would normally be a more-or-less straightforward process of treatment then inpatient admission, the staff will now have to triage and decide who gets treated, grandma with pneumonia or motor vehicle accident with polytrauma. Someone won't get the acute care they normally would get.


    I'm an ER doctor. We generally have plenty of capacity in the ER and the hospital. You breaking your leg is not a major draw on resources, especially if you are young and healthy. We put you in, the orthopedic surgeon who is no busier than usual plates you up, and they discharge you to rehab or whatever. It might take longer to get seen and outpatient follow up is going to be more onerous but I wouldn't let that effect my riding.

    What really slows us down in the ER and in medicine in general is paperwork and bureaucracy, mostly driven by the byzantine complexity of billing as well as the defensive medicine (and crazy documentation requirements) that ensues in our out-of-control legal system.

    Most of my time is spent typing at a computer. I could clear the ER out easily of minor and major complaints easily if I didn't have to document every single thing I do and the folks working ICU, as an example, could take care of three times as many patients if their administrative burden weren't so ridiculous.

    I assure you, the majority of most doctor's and nurse's job is paperwork. You have to see it to believe it.

    In fact and on reflection....considering a typical shift in the ER, I'd say only about twenty percent of my time is spent on patient care. The rest is mostly filling out forms and computer work.

    Additionally, the choice is not between "Grandma with Pneumonia and motor vehicle accident with polytrauma." The choice is between these two legitimate patients and people coming in for a little tummy ache or sniffles. The majority of ER patients are very, very minor complaints, even in "high acuity" places where I work.

    Fortunately, EMTALA (look it up) has been suspended for the National Emergency and I can send these folks home with a brief look-over, minimal paperwork, and no treatment at all if they look well.

    I assure you, most people who come to the ER do not have emergencies. And we admit a lot of people who could probably go home except we are afraid of getting sued for that one in a thousand patient we are wrong about.

    The American medical system is completely insane and driven by greed, litigation, and so many perverse incentives that nothing but nuclear war could fix it. It is full of good people, and I try to be a good doctor, but it is so insane that I would quit if I could.

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    I belong to a couple of groups in the bay area, northern California. Many of the local counties are under a lockdown where it's not legal to ride or assemble in groups right now. One group is doing a ride this Saturday in Santa Cruz county, which isn't on lockdown yet, and planning to keep some semblance of social distancing in play. Not sure how that's going to work out. I'll probably pass. The rest of us are on Zwift or riding solo for now, both in the counties on lockdown (San Mateo, Santa Clara) and in Santa Cruz county.

    It's crazy times. Seems wise to heed the authorities and stay solo IMO. I have an elderly mother-in-law in poor health, and I don't want to be a carrier. If we could just get tests and I knew I was clear, I'd be a lot happier about it and could make better decisions.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailuropoda View Post
    I'm an ER doctor. We generally have plenty of capacity in the ER and the hospital. You breaking your leg is not a major draw on resources, especially if you are young and healthy. We put you in, the orthopedic surgeon who is no busier than usual plates you up, and they discharge you to rehab or whatever. It might take longer to get seen and outpatient follow up is going to be more onerous but I wouldn't let that effect my riding.

    What really slows us down in the ER and in medicine in general is paperwork and bureaucracy, mostly driven by the byzantine complexity of billing as well as the defensive medicine (and crazy documentation requirements) that ensues in our out-of-control legal system.

    Most of my time is spent typing at a computer. I could clear the ER out easily of minor and major complaints easily if I didn't have to document every single thing I do and the folks working ICU, as an example, could take care of three times as many patients if their administrative burden weren't so ridiculous.

    I assure you, the majority of most doctor's and nurse's job is paperwork. You have to see it to believe it.

    In fact and on reflection....considering a typical shift in the ER, I'd say only about twenty percent of my time is spent on patient care. The rest is mostly filling out forms and computer work.

    Additionally, the choice is not between "Grandma with Pneumonia and motor vehicle accident with polytrauma." The choice is between these two legitimate patients and people coming in for a little tummy ache or sniffles. The majority of ER patients are very, very minor complaints, even in "high acuity" places where I work.

    Fortunately, EMTALA (look it up) has been suspended for the National Emergency and I can send these folks home with a brief look-over, minimal paperwork, and no treatment at all if they look well.

    I assure you, most people who come to the ER do not have emergencies. And we admit a lot of people who could probably go home except we are afraid of getting sued for that one in a thousand patient we are wrong about.

    The American medical system is completely insane and driven by greed, litigation, and so many perverse incentives that nothing but nuclear war could fix it. It is full of good people, and I try to be a good doctor, but it is so insane that I would quit if I could.

    Great post. Thanks for sharing your perspective.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    Great post. Thanks for sharing your perspective.
    Ditto that

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  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailuropoda View Post
    I'm an ER doctor. We generally have plenty of capacity in the ER and the hospital. You breaking your leg is not a major draw on resources, especially if you are young and healthy. We put you in, the orthopedic surgeon who is no busier than usual plates you up, and they discharge you to rehab or whatever.
    Usually, when a young person breaks their leg, it's from going big or a hold my beer moment and it's not a simple plate job. More often than not it involves an IM rod.

    Oldsters get plated, nailed, canulated screws and bi polar hip replacements.

    But yeah, the red tape and insurance woes are death by a thousand cuts.
    Ripping trails and tipping ales

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    Sorry say but since today (Tuesday) Santa Cruz country is under basically the same rules as the bay area: no group activities.

    http://santacruzhealth.org/Portals/7...016%202020.pdf

  78. #78
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    Work has slowed way down due to the lack of elective joint replacements. The third local ski hill decided to close yesterday so I've been social distancing on some secret singletrack and catching up on my beer drinking. The bars, pubs and taverns are still open so St Paddys day is on for tonight.

    The one market in town has implemented senior hours before opening as a feel good move although they could get home delivery during this dempanic
    Ripping trails and tipping ales

  79. #79
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    They later revised it, removing the US as an example.
    This post is a natural product. Variances in spelling & grammar should be appreciated as part of its character & beauty.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailuropoda View Post
    I'm an ER doctor. We generally have plenty of capacity in the ER and the hospital.
    Do you foresee your facility potentially becoming swamped by COVID cases to the degree that you are at full capacity? In your opinion is your hospital and community preparing appropriately in the event of a surge?

    This is what our hospital is doing. I’m curious about how other communities are preparing.

    https://ktvz.com/news/coronavirus/20...d-19-patients/

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    Work has slowed way down due to the lack of elective joint replacements. The third local ski hill decided to close yesterday so I've been social distancing on some secret singletrack and catching up on my beer drinking. The bars, pubs and taverns are still open so St Paddys day is on for tonight.

    The one market in town has implemented senior hours before opening as a feel good move although they could get home delivery during this dempanic
    Our community has closed all ambulatory surgery centers (to not siphon supplies away from the hospital), and has canceled all elective surgeries. Restaurants and bars may not have on-site dining (curbside pickup or delivery service is permitted). Schools are closed until April 28. The ski resort is closed at least for one week. Group events of 25 or more are prohibited. Gathering in groups of 10 or more is discouraged. Our county now has 6 COVID cases, the state has 51 with 12 more confirmed since yesterday. 18 of the cases are under age 55. The sole fatality was a guy in his 70s.

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    Do you foresee your facility potentially becoming swamped by COVID cases to the degree that you are at full capacity? In your opinion is your hospital and community preparing appropriately in the event of a surge?

    This is what our hospital is doing. I’m curious about how other communities are preparing.

    https://ktvz.com/news/coronavirus/20...d-19-patients/

    If we jettison the bureaucratic shackles as well as the questionable admissions we probably have plenty of capacity. More per capita than any other country. We probably have more ventilator capacity in my little corner of Michigan than in some small European countries.

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    Our community has closed all ambulatory surgery centers (to not siphon supplies away from the hospital), and has canceled all elective surgeries. Restaurants and bars may not have on-site dining (curbside pickup or delivery service is permitted). Schools are closed until April 28. The ski resort is closed at least for one week. Group events of 25 or more are prohibited. Gathering in groups of 10 or more is discouraged. Our county now has 6 COVID cases, the state has 51 with 12 more confirmed since yesterday. 18 of the cases are under age 55. The sole fatality was a guy in his 70s.
    While I naturally take pandemics seriously, is it worth destroying the economy of the entire World for what it mostly a self-limiting illness? It would be better to quarantine those most at-risk than shutting down the entire world.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    Our community has closed all ambulatory surgery centers (to not siphon supplies away from the hospital), and has canceled all elective surgeries. Restaurants and bars may not have on-site dining (curbside pickup or delivery service is permitted). Schools are closed until April 28. The ski resort is closed at least for one week. Group events of 25 or more are prohibited. Gathering in groups of 10 or more is discouraged. Our county now has 6 COVID cases, the state has 51 with 12 more confirmed since yesterday. 18 of the cases are under age 55. The sole fatality was a guy in his 70s.
    Meanwhile: https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/20...us-mxp-vpx.hln
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
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  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailuropoda View Post
    While I naturally take pandemics seriously, is it worth destroying the economy of the entire World for what it mostly a self-limiting illness? It would be better to quarantine those most at-risk than shutting down the entire world.
    Terrific question. I have a feeling that the sequelae from economic damage will be as harmful as the virus itself.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailuropoda View Post
    While I naturally take pandemics seriously, is it worth destroying the economy of the entire World for what it mostly a self-limiting illness? It would be better to quarantine those most at-risk than shutting down the entire world.
    or we could go on as usual and let a few million people die before the virus "self limits".

    feeling lucky? you'd better be extremely lucky, because a new study has determined that in 6 out of 7 Covid19 cases, there are no or very minor symptoms. but these people who aren't "sick" are out there infecting others. its probably why all this is spreading so quickly.

    meanwhile I was told today that the hospital where my ER nurse daughter works is out of masks. but the important things is that Joe the Ragman down the street has 20 boxes of them hidden away, in case he needs them.

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    That’s where my elderly parents live. I’m hoping that they don’t die from this.

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
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    They later revised it, removing the US as an example.
    We have a highly developed infrastructure. Homeless guys off the street can go from fishing for cigarette butts in the trash to coronary artery bypass surgery in about an hour. The problem is not infrastructure or even availability. We have plenty of both despite what you read on the local propaganda channels.

    The problem is the crushing financial cost of it all, the inefficiencies, the corruption, and the perverse incentives built into the system. Not to mention our ridiculously unhealthy population (MTBR forum members excluded, or course).

    We also have the largest pool of elderly patients with so many medical problems that my colleagues in Europe (where medical care is rationed) sometimes think I'm spoofing them when I describe our patients.

    I had an 82-year-old patient last week who was bed-bound and non-verbal from a stroke six years ago. He has Atrial Fibrillation, Systolic Heart Failure, Coronary Artery Disease with a bypass and eight stents, diabetes, kidney failure now on dialysis, hypertension, peripheral vascular disease with an above knee amputation, COPD, and a couple of other things including advanced dementia and blindness.

    His chief complaint and why the ambulance brought him with lights and sirens was "weakness."

    I kid you not, oh my friends, and this patient is not unique in any way.

    Can I tell you a story?

    I once worked at and ER near an Army base. We had an injured soldier come in and their unit medic, an Army Physician Assistant, got a little butthurt when I politely asked him to stand back as he was not credentialed to provide medical care at my hospital and we had a pretty decent staff. So after we stabilized the guy and packaged him up for transfer to The Big Trauma Hospital An Hour Away the guy pulled me aside and let me know that, as he could put in a chest tube and intubate he could do "99 percent of my job."

    Silly Rabbit. Chest tubes, intubations, and other cool procedures are about 2 percent of my job as an Emergency Physician and, being physical skills, can be taught to anybody. I asked him what he'd do with a 78-year-old demented woman sent from her nursing home for "not acting right" and whose only reply to questions was, "Nyyyghhhh."

    That, minor complaints, and paperwork are the other 98 percent of my job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LanceWeaklegs View Post
    or we could go on as usual and let a few million people die before the virus "self limits".

    feeling lucky?


    meanwhile I was told today that the hospital where my ER nurse daughter works is out of masks. but the important things is that Joe the Ragman down the street has 20 boxes of them hidden away, in case he needs them.

    I think it's already everywhere anyway. My wife's entire class had a strange, upper-respiratory illness a couple of weeks ago that came and went.

    The better strategy would be to quarantine high risk people. I work in the ER. I'm not that worried about catching it. I just don't want my elderly patients with a lot of medical problems getting it.

    The risk to your health from a depression are a lot worse than your risks from the Corona virus.

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailuropoda View Post
    We have a highly developed infrastructure. Homeless guys off the street can go from fishing for cigarette butts in the trash to coronary artery bypass surgery in about an hour. The problem is not infrastructure or even availability. We have plenty of both despite what you read on the local propaganda channels.

    The problem is the crushing financial cost of it all, the inefficiencies, the corruption, and the perverse incentives built into the system. Not to mention our ridiculously unhealthy population (MTBR forum members excluded, or course).

    We also have the largest pool of elderly patients with so many medical problems that my colleagues in Europe (where medical care is rationed) sometimes think I'm spoofing them when I describe our patients.

    I had an 82-year-old patient last week who was bed-bound and non-verbal from a stroke six years ago. He has Atrial Fibrillation, Systolic Heart Failure, Coronary Artery Disease with a bypass and eight stents, diabetes, kidney failure now on dialysis, hypertension, peripheral vascular disease with an above knee amputation, COPD, and a couple of other things including advanced dementia and blindness.

    His chief complaint and why the ambulance brought him with lights and sirens was "weakness."

    I kid you not, oh my friends, and this patient is not unique in any way.

    Can I tell you a story?

    I once worked at and ER near an Army base. We had an injured soldier come in and their unit medic, an Army Physician Assistant, got a little butthurt when I politely asked him to stand back as he was not credentialed to provide medical care at my hospital and we had a pretty decent staff. So after we stabilized the guy and packaged him up for transfer to The Big Trauma Hospital An Hour Away the guy pulled me aside and let me know that, as he could put in a chest tube and intubate he could do "99 percent of my job."

    Silly Rabbit. Chest tubes, intubations, and other cool procedures are about 2 percent of my job as an Emergency Physician and, being physical skills, can be taught to anybody. I asked him what he'd do with a 78-year-old demented woman sent from her nursing home for "not acting right" and whose only reply to questions was, "Nyyyghhhh."

    That, minor complaints, and paperwork are the other 98 percent of my job.
    well you flushed that guy right down the toilet. we are all in awe of you. I am surprised that you lower yourself to treat the riffraff. I bet all, and I mean all, your friends are fellow arrogant doctors. and I don't really believe that is what actually happened.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LanceWeaklegs View Post
    well you flushed that guy right down the toilet. we are all in awe of you. I am surprised that you lower yourself to treat the riffraff. I bet all, and I mean all, your friends are fellow arrogant doctors. and I don't really believe that is what actually happened.
    You miss the point. Most of medicine is routine and not life or death, even in the ER.

    Nowhere did I say the 78-year-old was riff raff. It's just not as dramatic as all that and the real skill nowadays is not only taking care of patients but navigating the built in insanities of the modern American medical Goat Rodeo.

    And it did happen. Some paramedics and PAs have what is called the "Paragod Complex." This is essentially not knowing enough to know what you don't know. Most ER doctors, myself included, walk into every shift afraid that we will get something we can't handle; not just a critical patient but someone with a constellation of subtle symptoms that could be nothing....and yet....

    Let me give you an example. I had an otherwise healthy 31-year-old guy who smoked a little and drank a few beers but was otherwise unremarkable in any way; normal, fit-looking working guy with a wife and kids.

    He was in his deer stand and started to have some shoulder pain. It was mostly reproducible with movement but he had been to an urgent care clinic and two other ERs who diagnosed him with shoulder strain from climbing into his deer stand.

    One of the ERs even did a cardiac workup that was entirely negative.

    So he has this reproducible shoulder pain with maybe a slightly decreased pulse in the left hand (and I mean slight). I said screw it and ordered a CTA of the chest and found a huge aortic dissection. The textbooks say that this kind of thing always is associated with chest pain and other symptoms of which he had none and the guy was passed through three different facilities before he got to me. What if I had been the first ER doctor and just gave him some pain medicine?

    You have no idea what you are talking about if you think doctors are arrogant. I've been humbled more times than you can imagine.


    All my friends are lawyers.

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    Noticed more and more people out riding their bicycles as of late. A lot more walkers with their dogs too. You know the ones that have 25' leash and not just one, but two animals 25' away from them on a leash. Funny

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    Moab is officially closed to non locals.

    https://rockandice.com/climbing-news...?cn-reloaded=1

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    Because people want to head on out to remote locations to sit the virus out. Makes perfect sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailuropoda View Post
    If we jettison the bureaucratic shackles as well as the questionable admissions we probably have plenty of capacity.
    Do you foresee that happening during the course of this pandemic? The EMTALA was suspended so perhaps the bureaucratic shackles will loosen. I have my doubts that it would, but time will tell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    Work has slowed way down due to the lack of elective joint replacements. The third local ski hill decided to close yesterday so I've been social distancing on some secret singletrack and catching up on my beer drinking. The bars, pubs and taverns are still open so St Paddys day is on for tonight.

    The one market in town has implemented senior hours before opening as a feel good move although they could get home delivery during this dempanic
    Sounds like you work in healthcare Vader. I would think you would be supportive of efforts to try and slow the spread of this virus by not going to crowded bars?
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    We were supposed to go out riding in Santa Fe for spring break. We cancelled, which is fine because the local riding is great. We almost went to Santa Fe to social distance, just for the sunshine, though. In the end, we decided it wasn't worth it.

    My riding son is absolutely loving it, though, since our schools went to online schooling. He may be pushing for attending a virtual or blended school next year, because he's realized how fast he can get through his work and then have over half of the rest of the day to ride. He does say that he misses being able to hang out with his friends and have sleepovers and such, but he absolutely loves the amount of riding he's getting in. If it wasn't so wet, he'd be getting even better quality riding (it's mainly been skatepark and pumptrack so far due to wet trails). Hoping we can get out this afternoon for a trail ride on some of our weather-resistant routes.

    I usually commute an hour each way for work, so I'm finding that I have a lot more time on my hands as well.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailuropoda View Post
    While I naturally take pandemics seriously, is it worth destroying the economy of the entire World for what it mostly a self-limiting illness? It would be better to quarantine those most at-risk than shutting down the entire world.
    I'm afraid I do not share your rosy outlook for all of this, but I most certainly do share your gripe at the bureaucracy of the health system that baffles and overwhelms even those working in it. The inefficiency of my insurance provider is staggering. My wife has received over 30 letters now regarding a doctor visit she made 18 months ago, and even tho she has on numerous occasions spoken with them and to the provider, they still keep coming. That is just one example. The inequalities of billing and charges is another ridiculous area, but I won't get into my personal experiences here.
    I do wonder tho, when they are up against it, do you think medical staff are really losing time with paperwork when faced with an avalanche of people needing treatment? A minimum is necessary of course, but to the extent you mention?


    Forgot to mention, what do you mean when you say 'mostly' self limiting?
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  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    I do wonder tho, when they are up against it, do you think medical staff are really losing time with paperwork when faced with an avalanche of people needing treatment?
    It's unavoidable unless the provider wants to open themself up to huge legal liability and no reimbursement. The modern electronic health records (EHR) systems are so incredibly overkill and and a lot of people won't take the blame for their own actions that caused their health crisis. Health insurance companies are evil.

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailuropoda View Post
    I had an 82-year-old patient last week who was bed-bound and non-verbal from a stroke six years ago. He has Atrial Fibrillation, Systolic Heart Failure, Coronary Artery Disease with a bypass and eight stents, diabetes, kidney failure now on dialysis, hypertension, peripheral vascular disease with an above knee amputation, COPD, and a couple of other things including advanced dementia and blindness.

    His chief complaint and why the ambulance brought him with lights and sirens was "weakness."
    Get him a 60 day medicinal marijuana prescription (preferably purple haze) and an eBike. Next patient, please!

  101. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    Work has slowed way down due to the lack of elective joint replacements. The third local ski hill decided to close yesterday so I've been social distancing on some secret singletrack and catching up on my beer drinking. The bars, pubs and taverns are still open so St Paddys day is on for tonight.

    The one market in town has implemented senior hours before opening as a feel good move although they could get home delivery during this dempanic
    My brother is a VP at a hospital in the MSP area and they are laying folks off as they have canceled all elective surgeries. The MAYO clinic is much the same he said. He actually said that the Mayo stands to lose millions if not up to a billion dollars because of canceled elective stuff.

  102. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by LanceWeaklegs View Post
    well you flushed that guy right down the toilet. we are all in awe of you. I am surprised that you lower yourself to treat the riffraff. I bet all, and I mean all, your friends are fellow arrogant doctors. and I don't really believe that is what actually happened.
    No, it really happened and after everyone stood up and clapped at his amazing bravery

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    God Bless all the people who as a matter of Principle, live their daily lives with Character and Self Discipline as a matter of normal daily routine. They do untold service to the rest of us in times of greatest need without prodding or threat. They get little noticed until things get really bad and on reflection through the eyes of History.

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    Oh, I would be riding, but the damn rain this week in OK is putting a stop to that. My main concern is that they will shut down the "urban Wilderness" we ride in, although people stay pretty dispersed. There are other places to ride, just further away and require a bit more effort to get there. I'm on the trainer till the rain stops, but still hope to get some riding in while this is going on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LanceWeaklegs View Post
    or we could go on as usual and let a few million people die before the virus "self limits"..
    Seems like the experts and people who devoted their life to epidemiology seem to think this is serious and the world-wide efforts are effective, sensible and, in a big picture view, practical. I respect their guidance. However, apparently most epidemiologists are busy on mtb forums and giving contradictory advice and recommendations - strangely which differ from official communications - who knew there were so many among us!
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  106. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailuropoda View Post
    We have a highly developed infrastructure.
    I have heard multiple reliable people from the Medical Industry counter-dict your statement. Specifically in regards to the number of ICU Beds and Ventilators.

    The common number is there are about 100k ICU beds in the country.

    What is happening in Italy is a good indication of what happens when there are not enough ICU Beds with Ventilators.


    That said, we are straying a bit off the main topic.


    Personally I plan to get out on my bike as much as possible once the rain clears. I can practice social distancing riding solo on the trails.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    It's unavoidable unless the provider wants to open themself up to huge legal liability and no reimbursement. The modern electronic health records (EHR) systems are so incredibly overkill and and a lot of people won't take the blame for their own actions that caused their health crisis. Health insurance companies are evil.
    Exactly. I can still be sued. We still have to get paid. Billing is entirely dependent on documentation. The system is configured to make it as difficult as possible to collect money from Medicare, Medicaid, and Private insurance. If your documentation does not include every single required element they will decline or delay payment. This is done on purpose.

    Consequently, there is an escalating Cold War being fought. The government and insurance companies (who mirror the government's requirements) keep placing more detailed administrative burdens on doctors and hospitals. They respond by implementing even more detailed and time consuming Electronic Medical Record (EMR) systems. This is why a visit to the ER for a sore throat will generate a ten page chart. It forces you to document everything required for billing and many will not let you sign the chart until you do.

    Fifty years ago, when chart were hand-written, a simple paragraph sufficed for most patient visits.

    From a legal point of view, documentation serves two purposes. First, in the case of hospital-based practice (like Emergency Medicine), it is an elaborate trap to implicate the doctor for any bad outcomes. By poring over what are mostly robotically generated charts (hundreds of pages for a complicated hospitalized patient) the hospital lawyers and the plaintiff's attorney can generally find an error or two that can be magnified entirely out of proportion to their significance. Perhaps, for example, the hospitalist didn't document the time when she spoke to the neurosurgeon. Even if this was done in a timely manner, the chart will show a delay in care.

    The second purpose is, paradoxically, to protect us from being sued in the first place. Consequently the chart is full of laboriously generated boilerplate documenting things like discussions with the patient that may of may not have happened because...and this is the key...if it was documented seven or eight years on when the malpractice case goes to trial all anybody has to go on is what's in the chart.

    Additionally, medical documentation is hard to understand for other working people. For every patient I see, I essentially have to document that I know how to do my job and have considered every potential problem the patient may have related to his complaint. Suppose you were a plumber and, on entering the customers house to fix the sink you had to write a detailed treatise on the heating and cooling system of the house, the state of the other fixtures, every single step you took fixing the leak in the sink detailing every tool you used and every item down to the length of plumbers tape. Then you would have to document lengthy instructions you gave to the customer on the use of the sink, what to do if it leaked again, and general instructions on how to call a plumber if the hot water heater explodes.

    Then, the customer would review your documentation and if you left one detail out, say the kind of washer you used to actually fix the leak, he would refuse to pay or delay payment until you resubmitted the documentation. In any case he would pay you about a fifth of your invoice amount and insist you were lucky to get that amount...everybody knows plumbers are rich and drive around in Jaguars.

    People not in medicine or nursing have no idea. I would say, conservatively, that freeing us from the bureaucratic requirements and threat of litigation would effectively triple our health care capacity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    I have heard multiple reliable people from the Medical Industry counter-dict your statement. Specifically in regards to the number of ICU Beds and Ventilators.

    The common number is there are about 100k ICU beds in the country.

    What is happening in Italy is a good indication of what happens when there are not enough ICU Beds with Ventilators.


    That said, we are straying a bit off the main topic.


    Personally I plan to get out on my bike as much as possible once the rain clears. I can practice social distancing riding solo on the trails.


    The United State has more critical care beds per capita than any other country. Look it up. We have about 35 critical care beds per 100,000 people. Europe, combined, has about 12.

    So, if you say the United States doesn't have a highly developed health care infrastructure I don't know to what country you are comparing us.

    Again, the problem in the US is not capacity, it's the built in inefficiencies of the system...and these inefficiencies are staggering.

  109. #109
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    My personal family doctor opted out of the insurance system for payment.
    He operates on a cash basis.
    He keeps records but you must deal with any reimbursement based upon what he provides which is a simple single page documenting service.
    I have an $1100 month bill for insurance.
    But I pay him cash for services that cost me less than half of what they did when they were submitted to insurance. In the case of simple semi-annual bloodwork, insurance paid their required lab 4 times what he charged.
    I know this is a small example but can’t help thinking the principle is expandable.
    It’s time to move to paying farmers and doctors more than we pay “toy” makers,actors,sports figures, and lawyers.

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  110. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    My personal family doctor opted out of the insurance system for payment.
    He operates on a cash basis.
    He keeps records but you must deal with any reimbursement based upon what he provides which is a simple single page documenting service.
    I have an $1100 month bill for insurance.
    But I pay him cash for services that cost me less than half of what they did when they were submitted to insurance. In the case of simple semi-annual bloodwork, insurance paid their required lab 4 times what he charged.
    I know this is a small example but can’t help thinking the principle is expandable.
    Primary care works with the self-pay model pretty well, especially if you're relatively healthy. Anything beyond primary care visits (e.g., diagnostic imaging, procedures, surgery, emergency care, specialist care, etc.) and the bill rises markedly. Some surgery centers have moved to a self-pay model though, where they charge a single out of pocket fee that includes the surgery from start to finish rather than a la carte anesthesiology fee, surgery center fee, lab fee, pathology fee, surgeon's fee. It's not a bad deal to get an elective surgery for $5K. An unexpected hospital visit would bankrupt most Americans though. We have to stop insurance company CEO's from taking an eight-figure annual bonus while they raise rates and deny claims. American health insurance is a total racket.

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    He’s right......
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails COVID-19 and your riding.-c9e63b2b-897f-4d63-af70-7beb60d142ba.jpg  

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  112. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailuropoda View Post
    The United State has more critical care beds per capita than any other country. Look it up. We have about 35 critical care beds per 100,000 people. Europe, combined, has about 12.

    So, if you say the United States doesn't have a highly developed health care infrastructure I don't know to what country you are comparing us.

    Again, the problem in the US is not capacity, it's the built in inefficiencies of the system...and these inefficiencies are staggering.
    Err, this article would seem to contradict what you are saying:

    https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-...term=TNY_Daily

    I know some will throw up their hands and say "It's the New Yorker! It must be fake news!" but I personally do not see much reason to doubt. perhaps if all other critical care facilities were emptied of their usual complement, they might manage, but it seems there could be simply too many to be coped with properly.

    I totally respect your position, and what you do, but it would seem there is some disagreement on what the reality is right now.
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    Reading this article, the latest figure (2015) for the total number of ICU beds is around 95000 nationwide. This equates to about 2.8 per person in the country. many of these are occupied at any given time, so the actual number will be somewhat less.
    There are many more staffed beds of course, but are these of use in treatment of Covid patients in need of critical care? This I do not know and would appreciate your opinion.

    https://www.sccm.org/Communications/...are-Statistics
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    This Particular Comparison Factor is a valid point when using other countries to anticipate what is coming.

    As for the New Yorker bias thing, here is their quote of the President.

    “Respirators, ventilators, all the equipment—try getting it yourselves,”

    Here it is the actual context The New Yorker Edited out.
    “We will be backing you, but try getting it yourselves. Point of sales, much better, much more direct if you can get it yourself,” he said.

    I realize not your primary point, just responding to the detail.

    New York Governor Andrew Cuomo announced Wednesday that the U.S. Navy would be sending its 1,000-bed USNS Comfort floating hospital ship to New York in an effort to help deal with the state’s coronavirus outbreak.
    “The president — I spoke to [him] this morning — he’s going to be making arraignments to send up this hospital ship,” Cuomo announced at a press conference to update the public on New York’s efforts. He added that the ship will be stationed in New York City harbor.
    “It’s an extraordinary step, obviously, it’s literally a floating hospital, which will add capacity and the president said that he would dispatch that immediately,” Cuomo stated.
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  115. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    This Particular Comparison Factor is a valid point when using other countries to anticipate what is coming.

    As for the New Yorker bias thing, here is their quote of the President.

    “Respirators, ventilators, all the equipment—try getting it yourselves,”

    Here it is the actual context The New Yorker Edited out.
    “We will be backing you, but try getting it yourselves. Point of sales, much better, much more direct if you can get it yourself,” he said.

    I realize not your primary point, just responding to the detail.

    New York Governor Andrew Cuomo announced Wednesday that the U.S. Navy would be sending its 1,000-bed USNS Comfort floating hospital ship to New York in an effort to help deal with the state’s coronavirus outbreak.
    “The president — I spoke to [him] this morning — he’s going to be making arraignments to send up this hospital ship,” Cuomo announced at a press conference to update the public on New York’s efforts. He added that the ship will be stationed in New York City harbor.
    “It’s an extraordinary step, obviously, it’s literally a floating hospital, which will add capacity and the president said that he would dispatch that immediately,” Cuomo stated.
    Good news.
    As to the 'get it yourselves' point, I had always considered this to be advice to explore every avenue to supplement equipment. This really should not have been necessary had steps been taken to fill the gaps from the federal level much sooner. Just my biased opinion of course
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    I think the idea of "get it yourselves" comes down to self reliance. Don't wait for the federal government to do things you might be able to handle on state, county or city level. If you can't do it local then go to feds for support because the more government the longer things take. Plus the feds don't know about local conditions as well as locals. The feds are looking 330 million people over 50 states and assorted territories. It is easy to overlook things at ground level. This where we must have local governments and local business and people step-up.
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  117. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailuropoda View Post
    So he has this reproducible shoulder pain with maybe a slightly decreased pulse in the left hand (and I mean slight). I said screw it and ordered a CTA of the chest and found a huge aortic dissection. The textbooks say that this kind of thing always is associated with chest pain and other symptoms of which he had none and the guy was passed through three different facilities before he got to me. What if I had been the first ER doctor and just gave him some pain medicine?
    That is insane, minor shoulder pain....


    I felt like i had a hole blown in my chest when my Aortic Dissection started. The ER changed from treating Cardiac symptoms to a CT when the pain moved into my lower back. After the CT they changed tactics and got my BP down and saved my life. I am extremely grateful for ER doctors.

    nice call on that one!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailuropoda View Post
    The United State has more critical care beds per capita than any other country. Look it up. We have about 35 critical care beds per 100,000 people. Europe, combined, has about 12.

    So, if you say the United States doesn't have a highly developed health care infrastructure I don't know to what country you are comparing us.

    Again, the problem in the US is not capacity, it's the built in inefficiencies of the system...and these inefficiencies are staggering.
    I did not personally say the US does not have a highly developed health care infrastructure, I also did not compare the US to other countries. I just stated what I heard on the news from a Medical Professional that the number of ICU Beds and Ventilators in the US is not enough to support a mild to major outbreak of COVID19, hence the reason for the major requests for social distancing to slow the spread of the disease and allow the current system to work instead of overloading it.

    I actually work at a Hospital, I am in IT, but I am familiar with the Inpatient setups, the ICU's etc. I know what a critical care bed is.

    So based on the numbers you gave, 35 Critical Care beds per 100k people.

    327 million residents in the US
    Divided by 100k = 3,270
    3270 x 35 = 114,450 Critical Care Beds.

    So based on that, the US does not have enough Critical Care Beds in the event this becomes a mild to Major outbreak according to the report I heard. Is my math correct?

    I don't think that comment means the US is worse off than other countries, just that it is not prepared to handle a major outbreak that would require more than 100k Critical Care Beds.

    We have to remember, many of those beds are in use right now with critical care patients that have nothing to do with COIVD19. I personally spent 16 days in the ICU when my Aorta Dissected.
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  119. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    Reading this article, the latest figure (2015) for the total number of ICU beds is around 95000 nationwide. This equates to about 2.8 per person in the country. many of these are occupied at any given time, so the actual number will be somewhat less.
    There are many more staffed beds of course, but are these of use in treatment of Covid patients in need of critical care? This I do not know and would appreciate your opinion.

    https://www.sccm.org/Communications/...are-Statistics
    Duh, I just realised my math is a bit off! My apologies, I got a decimal point in the wrong place!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott O View Post
    Get him a 60 day medicinal marijuana prescription (preferably purple haze) and an eBike. Next patient, please!
    DWI is illegal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    That is insane, minor shoulder pain....


    I felt like i had a hole blown in my chest when my Aortic Dissection started. The ER changed from treating Cardiac symptoms to a CT when the pain moved into my lower back. After the CT they changed tactics and got my BP down and saved my life. I am extremely grateful for ER doctors.

    nice call on that one!
    Thanks...but honestly I only got suspicious because I was the fourth doctor he saw for the same thing. It sends chills down my spine, not particularly because I am afraid of getting sued but what if we had completely missed that and he ruptured and died?

    As a side note. When I visited in his room after his surgery his family told me that they had a history of AAA. Never mentioned it when I asked them in the ER.

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    I saw that on an episode of House once.....

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  123. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailuropoda View Post
    As a side note. When I visited in his room after his surgery his family told me that they had a history of AAA. Never mentioned it when I asked them in the ER.
    Right??? "Oh, by the way..."

  124. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailuropoda View Post
    Thanks...but honestly I only got suspicious because I was the fourth doctor he saw for the same thing. It sends chills down my spine, not particularly because I am afraid of getting sued but what if we had completely missed that and he ruptured and died?

    As a side note. When I visited in his room after his surgery his family told me that they had a history of AAA. Never mentioned it when I asked them in the ER.
    My Uncle died when he was 48 from what we are pretty sure was a ruptured Aortic aneurysm or Dissection (my aunt refused to let us have an autopsy done)

    Shortly after my other Uncle who is younger went in to get a CT just to be sure and they found an aneurysm on his Aorta right at the heart. His Doctors kept an eye on it for a few year until it started to grow. He Flew out to the Cleveland clinic and found a surgeon who was able to repair it.

    I was 34 when I experienced my Dissection, As an MTB'r I was "healthy" but suffered from Hypertension without knowing as I never went to the doctor or got physicals. I knew about my uncles issues when I went in and we did disclose that.

    Mine happened in 2012, I am scheduled for my next physical in a few weeks to prep for my semi-annual CT to check the status of my dissection.


    Okay, that is enough about that. Back on topic.

    I got this in my inbox today from SDMBA:
    To our SDMBA Community:



    We would like to send our concerns and hopes that you are all doing well in these extraordinary times. We know you are all taking the necessary precautions needed for slowing the spread of Covid-19.


    Our staff and volunteer board of directors is working remotely over the next few weeks as we navigate this new landscape but we are always reachable through our email at [email protected]


    While we love getting our community together for large and small events and rides, we also know we must be laser-focused at this time on our mission of improving trail access for mountain biking in San Diego. Our advocacy efforts and project planning and implementation will roll on without any break in momentum.


    We will continue to monitor guidelines and orders from local, state and federal authorities as we make decisions on upcoming events including the Archipelago Ride and Ride the Rancho. Additional communications will be shared soon regarding these events.


    If you are feeling well and decide to venture out on the road or trails after they dry, please avoid group rides and practice social distancing, which is easy to do on a bike. Easy does it, however, as this is not the time to impact our health care system with needless injuries. This is time to emphasize the “Be Nice, Say Hi” ethic and communicate with each other from a distance about how to proceed. As gyms and rec centers close, there may be new users on the trails. It’s a great time for all of us to practice trail etiquette and be good stewards.


    We sympathize with everyone as we all try to grasp the vast impact this situation will have. As a small non-profit, we are preparing for these impacts as best we can. Your continued support is greatly appreciated.


    We also encourage you to continue to support our amazing sponsors and local bike shops by shopping online or arranging service with the creative ways they are using to stay connected.


    Be safe and we can't wait to get out on the trail with you again soon.


    Susie Murphy

    Executive Director
    I really appreciated the text in Bold and strongly feel all of us have a role to play here. Slow down, and be polite.

    It has been raining non-stop for the last 2 weeks in SoCal (very unusual) and we have more foretasted, so our trails are mostly unridable, but once that sun is out I know people will be flocking to the many trail systems around the county.
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  125. #125
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    Glad the cycling community seems to have its shit together generally speaking. I saw a note from Specialized too about taking it easy so needless injuries don't happen. And my local club put out similar thoughts. Now is definitely not the time to chase PRs.

  126. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by tick_magnet View Post
    Now is definitely not the time to chase PRs.
    Puerto Ricans??
    I like turtles

  127. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYrr496 View Post
    Puerto Ricans??
    Okay, I chuckled.

  128. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    Okay, I chuckled.
    Actually, we shouldn't joke about things like this right now. Everyone should wait at least a minimum of 2 weeks before chasing Puerto Ricans. We're all in this together, people.

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  129. #129
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    I usually ride solo so I see little impact. I pack my bike in my car and do not have to interact with anyone. Right now, all my local parks are closed though.

    So far the only impact on me was that I was forced to end ski season early when all areas closed because of the coronavirus.

    I was staying at a house in Lake Tahoe when the sh!t really hit the fan. Being that I had the house to myself and made the trip on my own, I was "socially distant" by default. For most of the mountains I skied, I had an Epic pass and didn't have to interact with ticket sellers. I got in seven days at five areas before everything shut down so I missed two days of powder but did get the first day of a three day storm in. I spent the last two days hanging around and reading. It was pretty relaxing after an intense season.

    Where I did interact was flying and, believe me, the planes and terminals were empty.

    My wife and I are being socially responsible and avoiding contact as much as possible, washing our hands etc. as often as possible, shopping at odd hours (no shortages in my North Jersey location and none in Lake Tahoe, FYI - except TP and we have a months supply) etc.

    A bit of a ramble, but so is the scene these days.

  130. #130
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    Im actually going to see my friend, Danny tomorrow to give him a new battery for his car.
    Hes Puerto Rican. I wont chase him.
    I like turtles

  131. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    Primary care works with the self-pay model pretty well, especially if you're relatively healthy. Anything beyond primary care visits (e.g., diagnostic imaging, procedures, surgery, emergency care, specialist care, etc.) and the bill rises markedly. Some surgery centers have moved to a self-pay model though, where they charge a single out of pocket fee that includes the surgery from start to finish rather than a la carte anesthesiology fee, surgery center fee, lab fee, pathology fee, surgeon's fee. It's not a bad deal to get an elective surgery for $5K. An unexpected hospital visit would bankrupt most Americans though. We have to stop insurance company CEO's from taking an eight-figure annual bonus while they raise rates and deny claims. American health insurance is a total racket.
    Good post and absolutely spot on.

    For those of you who are interested, American medicine is also ruinously expensive because of risk aversion. Although we are dealing with an extremely unhealthy and medically non-compliant population, it is a "zero defect" profession where the cost of making a mistake is professionally and emotionally devastating to physicians. Consequently we over-order tests and imaging, consult other physicians irrationally, and generally spend money like sailors on shore leave to meet the ever expanding "standard of care," the violation of which is the basis for most malpractice lawsuits.

    When I first started in medicine twenty years ago, it was considered acceptable practice to send a young abdominal pain patient home from the ER with a minimal workup if they looked well, had a benign abdominal exam, and seemed intelligent enough to follow instructions to return if their symptoms worsened.

    Most abdominal pain patients who come to the ER end up being pretty much nothing.

    So this was pretty cost effective. It minimized expensive imaging and lab work and improved the flow of patients. If you had appendicitis and it was so early that there were no hard exam findings a one-day delay in care wouldn't effect you eventual outcome.

    I also remember a time when a surgeon would consult on a patient, examine their abdomen, and take them to the OR without imaging...and they were almost always right about their diagnosis.

    Nowadays, everybody gets a CT scan. I'm one of the few doctors who will cancel CTs pre-ordered in triage (ordered before the patient is examined) but I sometimes feel I'm taking a huge risk doing it. I had a colleague do the same thing, entirely reasonable, and the patient came back five days later with a perforated appendix and sepsis requiring extensive surgery and two week critical care stay.

    Naturally he was sued and, although he eventually won the lawsuit seven years later it was a pyrrhic victory. The emotional cost of being sued as well as the damage to his career while it dragged on was immense.

    For an ER doctor, even being named in lawsuit makes it harder to get malpractice insurance to the point where some places won't even consider you. I have been involved in three malpractice cases; they all came in one two-year period and that was literally the most stressful time of my life. I was in the Marine Corps Infantry for seven years, have five kids, and went through a ruinous divorce. These were low stress by comparison.

    On many occasions, the defense (who work for the hospital or your contract management group) will settle a case they could win to avoid the cost of trial. They literally don't care about the permanent damage to careers.

    We will never cut medical costs until there is meaningful tort reform.

  132. #132
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    My thoughts:
    Mountain biking is an easy way to get away from people and civilization. Unwind, get sanity back and explore.

    It seems with the current state of Coronavirus climate, our activity is conducive to social distancing. Stay healthy and sane, keep distance from others.

    But there are issues. There is the 'shelter in place' mandate in the SF Bay Area now. And then that can turn into a quarantine or a lockdown where no movement is allowed without permission. Hopefully, our town or city does not get to this stage as it has in many parts of the world.

    There's also the issue of rescue. If you get badly injured and/or require rescue, you could be taking away precious resources from the medical system. And then there's the big group ride issue. Spend time and hang out with friends and possibly spread the virus.

    How do we balance all these needs? What is your plan today and a month from now when it comes to riding.

    COVID-19 and your riding.-img_7935-1-.jpg
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  133. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post

    He’s right......
    Hi
    I'm living in Italy, Lombardia - Brescia. I'm a surgeon. Not enough intensive care beds for peolple with covid19 pulmonitis. Only one possibility: to avoid diffusion. The other problem is a few resources to take care in ER for people with fracture or major trauma.

    I'm used to ride my mtb or grave 3 times in a week...now I have to reduce but I need to free my mind!
    E

  134. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYrr496 View Post
    Im actually going to see my friend, Danny tomorrow to give him a new battery for his car.
    Hes Puerto Rican. I wont chase him.
    Tell Danny he has a two week head start, then it's ON.

  135. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by nat View Post
    tell danny he has a two week head start, then it's on.
    lmao!
    I like turtles

  136. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    My thoughts:
    Mountain biking is an easy way to get away from people and civilization. Unwind, get sanity back and explore.

    It seems with the current state of Coronavirus climate, our activity is conducive to social distancing. Stay healthy and sane, keep distance from others.

    But there are issues. There is the 'shelter in place' mandate in the SF Bay Area now. And then that can turn into a quarantine or a lockdown where no movement is allowed without permission. Hopefully, our town or city does not get to this stage as it has in many parts of the world.

    There's also the issue of rescue. If you get badly injured and/or require rescue, you could be taking away precious resources from the medical system. And then there's the big group ride issue. Spend time and hang out with friends and possibly spread the virus.

    How do we balance all these needs? What is your plan today and a month from now when it comes to riding.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Well, if it comes down to lockdown, then there's always night riding. Just sneak out after dark and disappear into the woods.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  137. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    My thoughts:
    Mountain biking is an easy way to get away from people and civilization. Unwind, get sanity back and explore.

    It seems with the current state of Coronavirus climate, our activity is conducive to social distancing. Stay healthy and sane, keep distance from others.

    But there are issues. There is the 'shelter in place' mandate in the SF Bay Area now. And then that can turn into a quarantine or a lockdown where no movement is allowed without permission. Hopefully, our town or city does not get to this stage as it has in many parts of the world.

    There's also the issue of rescue. If you get badly injured and/or require rescue, you could be taking away precious resources from the medical system. And then there's the big group ride issue. Spend time and hang out with friends and possibly spread the virus.

    How do we balance all these needs? What is your plan today and a month from now when it comes to riding.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    From what I heard on Newsom's order, solo exercise is OK. Hopefully those rules will remain in place, since I cannot believe the benefits of outdoor exercise would be outweighed by any danger caused by going out alone.
    I can get to my closest dirt and up into the hills in about 5 mins up a quiet cul de sac, so unless my neighbors shop me, I should be OK! If I crash heavy, I'll just crawl back down the hill
    It's all Here. Now.

  138. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    From what I heard on Newsom's order, solo exercise is OK. Hopefully those rules will remain in place, since I cannot believe the benefits of outdoor exercise would be outweighed by any danger caused by going out alone.
    I can get to my closest dirt and up into the hills in about 5 mins up a quiet cul de sac, so unless my neighbors shop me, I should be OK! If I crash heavy, I'll just crawl back down the hill
    In direct response to the POS Newsome’s order yesterday the 11:00PM Channel 5 news posted all the do’s and don’ts. On some of the do’s listed. Public transportation, walking, biking and driving are listed as okay to do. End of story. I wish my trails were this accessible. Have fun.

  139. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    From what I heard on Newsom's order, solo exercise is OK. Hopefully those rules will remain in place, since I cannot believe the benefits of outdoor exercise would be outweighed by any danger caused by going out alone.
    I can get to my closest dirt and up into the hills in about 5 mins up a quiet cul de sac, so unless my neighbors shop me, I should be OK! If I crash heavy, I'll just crawl back down the hill
    I live in a relatively small area, but if we continue to be out in groups like they have been the couple days, the 'excise' part of this will be wiped away.
    Today I saw 4 bikes on the back of a car just before a pickup with 3 dirt bikes. Maybe both situations were families.

    On the trail, across the way, there were several in a group, including 3 or 4 children.

    Heard similar about a paved trail with families and kids. Heard from a road cyclist who said the children were running around all over.

    Solo activity doesn't usually start with 4 people in a car!

    We're going to lose the option and it will be in part because of our own stupidity trying to buck the system.

  140. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Rider View Post
    I live in a relatively small area, but if we continue to be out in groups like they have been the couple days, the 'excise' part of this will be wiped away.
    Today I saw 4 bikes on the back of a car just before a pickup with 3 dirt bikes. Maybe both situations were families.

    On the trail, across the way, there were several in a group, including 3 or 4 children.

    Heard similar about a paved trail with families and kids. Heard from a road cyclist who said the children were running around all over.

    Solo activity doesn't usually start with 4 people in a car!

    We're going to lose the option and it will be in part because of our own stupidity trying to buck the system.
    Yep, Some people just don't get and you have to spell it out for them.
    Last edited by Chicane32; 03-22-2020 at 05:51 AM.

  141. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by edibetta View Post
    Hi
    I'm living in Italy, Lombardia - Brescia. I'm a surgeon. Not enough intensive care beds for peolple with covid19 pulmonitis. Only one possibility: to avoid diffusion. The other problem is a few resources to take care in ER for people with fracture or major trauma.

    I'm used to ride my mtb or grave 3 times in a week...now I have to reduce but I need to free my mind!
    E
    I work at a 400+ bed hospital. 11 bed ICU and 21 bed CCU, CVICU. 95% of these 32 ICU beds are always occupied on a regular day.

  142. #142
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    I'm a school teacher - I teach from 8:30 am - 4:00 pm with a lunch break, everything online now.......I spend Sunday front-loading my eClass website with the work students need to focus on during this time, then monitor all day until "closing time", then it's off for a ride........I have three main trails near my house, all close by, that I ride and I opt for something low-key now; at 58, no need to push it hard speed-wise (the SS is good enough for my intervals session), just ride and enjoy life......
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  143. #143
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    I dont pay anything for health care out of pocket, its free.
    I can get additional health care coverage through Blue Cross if I so wished.
    I was going to leave the province and phoned about travel insurance in country, $44/yr. International travel for the year was $800. But the insurance companies would deny just to save money and drag it out in court.

  144. #144
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    Generally, I'll be riding as normal. I don't do the really crazy stuff anymore, anyway. But, yeah, if the hospitals around here stay getting filled up with sick people, I'll be less likely to go full send. But I won't stop riding. Still gotta live.
    Stop in at Element Sports. www.elementsport.com
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  145. #145
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    COVID-19 and your riding.

    Quote Originally Posted by OzarkFathom View Post
    This Particular Comparison Factor is a valid point when using other countries to anticipate what is coming.

    As for the New Yorker bias thing, here is their quote of the President.

    “Respirators, ventilators, all the equipment—try getting it yourselves,”

    Here it is the actual context The New Yorker Edited out.
    “We will be backing you, but try getting it yourselves. Point of sales, much better, much more direct if you can get it yourself,” he said.

    I realize not your primary point, just responding to the detail.

    Some more context for this......

    Despite saying "we will be backing you", the Federal government repeatedly outbids states for these supplies. So no, they are not backing them at all in this regard, but rather competing against them.

    The whole idea of doing things this way is absurd. Having 50 states and the Feds all bidding on the same limited supplies drives up the costs, and supplied end up with the richest states (or none if the Feds out bid them), not necessarily the ones that need it most. This needs to be coordinated at the Federal level, not a survival of the fittest free for all.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  146. #146
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    This situation has effected my riding in two ways:

    1- I will only ride solo. Granted, that was what I did most of the time anyway, but I normally join a group ride every week or so.

    2- I am riding much more cautiously. My biggest concern in all of this is the awful toll this is going to have on hospitals and medical staff, and also the patients that will go without proper treatment when the system gets overwhelmed. If I do something for pure recreation that lands me in the hospital at a time like this, I will never forgive myself. Not only is it unfair to the medical staff, but It may literally cost someone else their life.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  147. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chicane32 View Post
    I work at a 400+ bed hospital. 11 bed ICU and 21 bed CCU, CVICU. 95% of these 32 ICU beds are always occupied on a regular day.
    My brother died in May 2015 at the age of 45 years old. He was in the ER waiting for a bed in an ICU in the city's largest hospital, the hospital is part of a healthcare system which the 2-3rd largest in the State (IL). Still...he was diagnosed to be put in the ICU at 7am in the ER exam room, at 3:30pm (same day) he died waiting for a bed in the same ER exam room. The hospital was not over whelmed. Just "normal" patients.

    Please take the lock-down and seek-shelter serious. The next 2-3 weeks appear to be the most vital in terms of stemming the demand on our healthcare infrastructure.

  148. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by bingemtbr View Post
    My brother died in May 2015 at the age of 45 years old. He was in the ER waiting for a bed in an ICU in the city's largest hospital, the hospital is part of a healthcare system which the 2-3rd largest in the State (IL). Still...he was diagnosed to be put in the ICU at 7am in the ER exam room, at 3:30pm (same day) he died waiting for a bed in the same ER exam room. The hospital was not over whelmed. Just "normal" patients.

    Please take the lock-down and seek-shelter serious. The next 2-3 weeks appear to be the most vital in terms of stemming the demand on our healthcare infrastructure.
    I am so very sorry to hear about your brother, that I know would have been tough. Best to you mate. Stay safe yourself.
    It's all Here. Now.

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