Bought a frame with a crack- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Bought a frame with a crack

    The thing that happened is still a mystery to me.

    20 days ago I ordered a K2 Razorback 2001 frame from eDiscountBike. The price was $250. Before ordering, I emailed eDiscountBike and asked to please check the frame carefully before shipping. This is because the shipping cost to the place where I live is quite high. I got an answer from Tom who promised my frame will be taken care of.

    The frame arrived two days ago. The box was really huge. The shipping totaled $143. I found an invoice in the box. In ęSPECIAL INSTRUCTIONSĽ field Tom wrote to someone: ęThis frame is going to Russia. Please check the frame and inspect the rear shock for air leaks etc.Ľ

    That perfectly matched all the positive notes about eDiscountBike I read at MTBR.

    When I unpacked the frame I saw a crack in one of the two lugs where the shock is attached to the seatpost tube. The tubes have no dents or any other evidence of lateral impact. It looks much like a manufacture defect.

    I canít return the frame because shipping it back is cost prohibitive. I did explain it to Tom asking to check a frame for me. I canít repair the frame locally because itís Easton double butted T6 aluminum and I have no idea who can weld it over here.

    With eDiscountBike high reputation in mind, I just donít get it. I sent the photos to Tom last Saturday, but still got no reply.

    I donít know what to think. Am I in deep trouble? Did I expect too much from a frame taken from a once assembled bike? Is a crack in that place not critical?

    They give 30 days warranty on these frames, my warranty ends this Sunday, and I am worried.

    Ideas/suggestions are really very welcome.
    Attached Images Attached Images
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    • File Type: jpg 2.jpg (48.1 KB, 1469 views)
    Last edited by MegaVolt; 03-09-2004 at 12:30 PM. Reason: Forgot to attach photos

  2. #2

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    Start the Warranty...

    If the purchase is under warranty and expires on Sunday, at least make a formal request that you are not satisfied and would like to return the frame under warranty. Even if it is not feasable to send it back, don't let the warranty go by without at least requesting it. They may be obligated to pay for the return shipping......I just don't know.

    Even though you don't know how this is going to be resolved, you want as many chips in your pocket as possible and requesting the Warranty is one of them. Be sure to document all correspondence and who you talked to.

    Hopefully they are discussing how to fix your problem right now and have yet to respond to you with a solution. Good luck.

  3. #3
    tcp
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    my ediscount experiences...

    I've ordered a couple of frames and numerous other items from ediscount and have had nothing but stellar service. one of the frames came with a shock that differed from the one listed on K2's website (no fault of ediscount- k2 just delivered them to ediscount with different rear shocks). Tom gave anyone who bought the frame a choice of cash refund for the frame or a store credit for $40, even though they had nothing to do with the problem. give them a chance to respond and i'm sure you'll be satisfied with the service. have you sent them those pictures? if not, they certainly tell the story.

  4. #4
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    Oh yeah

    Quote Originally Posted by MegaVolt
    The thing that happened is still a mystery to me.

    20 days ago I ordered a K2 Razorback 2001 frame from eDiscountBike. The price was $250. Before ordering, I emailed eDiscountBike and asked to please check the frame carefully before shipping. This is because the shipping cost to the place where I live is quite high. I got an answer from Tom who promised my frame will be taken care of.

    The frame arrived two days ago. The box was really huge. The shipping totaled $143. I found an invoice in the box. In ęSPECIAL INSTRUCTIONSĽ field Tom wrote to someone: ęThis frame is going to Russia. Please check the frame and inspect the rear shock for air leaks etc.Ľ

    That perfectly matched all the positive notes about eDiscountBike I read at MTBR.

    When I unpacked the frame I saw a crack in one of the two lugs where the shock is attached to the seatpost tube. The tubes have no dents or any other evidence of lateral impact. It looks much like a manufacture defect.

    I can’t return the frame because shipping it back is cost prohibitive. I did explain it to Tom asking to check a frame for me. I can’t repair the frame locally because it’s Easton double butted T6 aluminum and I have no idea who can weld it over here.

    With eDiscountBike high reputation in mind, I just don’t get it. I sent the photos to Tom last Saturday, but still got no reply.

    I don’t know what to think. Am I in deep trouble? Did I expect too much from a frame taken from a once assembled bike? Is a crack in that place not critical?

    They give 30 days warranty on these frames, my warranty ends this Sunday, and I am worried.

    Ideas/suggestions are really very welcome.
    These cracks are a major problem and in a critical area. It's HIGHLY unlikely that it could be repaired without replacing the entire bracket. Welding the cracks would simply not do the job. I would ask them to honor the warranty and replace the frame. They should also pay for the shipping both ways. It was their choice to do business with you. They didn't have to sell to someone in Russia. By doing so they accepted the possibility of this consequence, especially so because you asked for a careful inspection.

    It could have been damaged in transit. Was there damage to the box? Did you take pictures before you opened it up? Do you still have the box? If so, take pictures now to document it's condition.

    How did you pay for the frame? Credit card, cash, check, money order, other? If you can stop payment I would do so now, just to preserve your leverage. Even though you feel you cannot afford to pay shipping I would not let the warranty expire without sending the bike back or getting written assurance that they will honor the warranty beyond the date. A broken frame, out of warranty and with no ability to recover your payment is worse than a returned frame, recovery of your payment and only out an additional $148.

    Document everything. Save emails, make a record of phone conversations with date and time. Save copies of snail mail. Pray.

  5. #5
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    2meloh1:
    I donít want to describe eDiscountBike as my enemy. Tom answered all of my questions before I placed my order, and obviously he did ask someone to take care of my frame because I see his note on the invoice.

    I am just confused about what has happened. I was really mad when I saw Tomís note to check the frame and the crack going all the way through the lug. It looked like mockery.

    No matter who covers the shipping now, itís going to be more than the $250 the frame cost initially. Ridiculous. Besides, I donít want to make them sorry for selling bike parts to Russia. I see enough U.S. based web-stores who donít sell "to Russia and other countries".

    I did email Tom at eDiscountBike, and I also attached the photos. I told Tom that I am not going to send the frame back because paying $280 for the shipping of a $250 frame to and fro is kind of an overkill for my budget now. I asked about sending a replacement without making me return the cracked frame. After all, all I need is a front triangle because the rear triangle has no cracks and the shock doesnít look damaged in any way either.

    There was no snail mail between us. I threw away the box, and I paid cash for delivery. It was a friend who was going from Boston to St.Petersburg, Russia, she brought the box with her, and it was so huge Lufthansa charged for it separately.

    Thanks for your encouragement, I was just taken aback by this situation. Facts don't tie into a consistent explanation, at least to me. Maybe TCP is right and Iím just being too impatient. I hope to have some news soon (before this Sunday, I hope!).

  6. #6
    some kind of hero...
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    Experience with ediscount

    Quote Originally Posted by MegaVolt
    The thing that happened is still a mystery to me.

    20 days ago I ordered a K2 Razorback 2001 frame from eDiscountBike. The price was $250. Before ordering, I emailed eDiscountBike and asked to please check the frame carefully before shipping. This is because the shipping cost to the place where I live is quite high. I got an answer from Tom who promised my frame will be taken care of.

    The frame arrived two days ago. The box was really huge. The shipping totaled $143. I found an invoice in the box. In ęSPECIAL INSTRUCTIONSĽ field Tom wrote to someone: ęThis frame is going to Russia. Please check the frame and inspect the rear shock for air leaks etc.Ľ

    That perfectly matched all the positive notes about eDiscountBike I read at MTBR.

    When I unpacked the frame I saw a crack in one of the two lugs where the shock is attached to the seatpost tube. The tubes have no dents or any other evidence of lateral impact. It looks much like a manufacture defect.

    I canít return the frame because shipping it back is cost prohibitive. I did explain it to Tom asking to check a frame for me. I canít repair the frame locally because itís Easton double butted T6 aluminum and I have no idea who can weld it over here.

    With eDiscountBike high reputation in mind, I just donít get it. I sent the photos to Tom last Saturday, but still got no reply.

    I donít know what to think. Am I in deep trouble? Did I expect too much from a frame taken from a once assembled bike? Is a crack in that place not critical?

    They give 30 days warranty on these frames, my warranty ends this Sunday, and I am worried.

    Ideas/suggestions are really very welcome.
    I also bought one of those frames from ediscount and had a minor problem. Tom was extremely good about it and made everything right. It took some time, but I was totally impressed with their honesty and customer service. It was the best I've experienced. This may be small comfort for you as you wonder how your problem can be resolved, but I'm thinking they will fix it up somehow. I continue to do business with them with no problems. Due to your location this is going to take time to resolve...

    Good Luck
    GEVELTERSCHMIDT RACING

  7. #7
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    Success!

    Joan from eDiscountBikes contacted me today. She said sheís sorry for the trouble and asked if I am sure itís a crack and not a paint defect because the lugs are a stamped detail and it is unlikely that they should have a crack.

    I removed the paint with a knife to clear things out, the crack was still there on the lug, and I swore to Joan it was a crack indeed. She seemed surprised that that piece would have a crack.

    However, she said she will send a new front triangle to me and asked for my mailing address in Russia.

    Thatís all folks! eDiscountBikes is sending a replacement part to me in Russia, the shipping cost is on them, and I donít have to shell out on the return shipping of the cracked part.

    Apart from the fact that they did send me a frame with a crack when they promised to check it before shipping, they certainly leave no unsolved problems behind, and thatís very nice.

  8. #8
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    sounds like a repudable buisness/

    Quote Originally Posted by MegaVolt
    Joan from eDiscountBikes contacted me today. She said sheís sorry for the trouble and asked if I am sure itís a crack and not a paint defect because the lugs are a stamped detail and it is unlikely that they should have a crack.

    I removed the paint with a knife to clear things out, the crack was still there on the lug, and I swore to Joan it was a crack indeed. She seemed surprised that that piece would have a crack.

    However, she said she will send a new front triangle to me and asked for my mailing address in Russia.

    Thatís all folks! eDiscountBikes is sending a replacement part to me in Russia, the shipping cost is on them, and I donít have to shell out on the return shipping of the cracked part.

    Apart from the fact that they did send me a frame with a crack when they promised to check it before shipping, they certainly leave no unsolved problems behind, and thatís very nice.
    good to hear they followed up on the defect; hard to believe it cracked when there is no other flaws in the area.could the shock have caused the damage-excessive upward pressure? good luck with the new frame......

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by '02 NRS
    good to hear they followed up on the defect; hard to believe it cracked when there is no other flaws in the area.could the shock have caused the damage-excessive upward pressure? good luck with the new frame......
    I would also wonder how a frame with a crack on the lug got shipped to me after a special inspection Tom did seem to require from his people at the warehouse.

    But yes, I agree the crack is very strange. These lugs would be the last thing to be damaged. Logically, tf the frame were hit in transportation, the rear triangle would have to be smashed to pieces first. It's hard to imagine a force that could cause a crack on this lug without braking other frame parts. The only thing that comes to mind is a hit directly on the lug before assembly.

    I am very happy the problem was solved and I clearly understand it could all end up not so good but for the goodwill of people at eDiscountBikes.
    ...

    BTW, does anyone know a source for Gore Ride-On Shifter Cables? They used to make them in yellow, too, and yellow would go fine with the dark blue frame. I canít wait for the rear triangle to arrive to finally build up my new bike.

  10. #10
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    Good luck with the Gore Ride on shifters....

    I have been looking for these as well but no retailers have them as they stopped making them. A set just sold on Ebay for around $45 which is crazy. @ sets sold the week before for about $25 each. Obviously I missed them.
    If you find any, please post here as I want to get a set or two!

    KMan


    Quote Originally Posted by MegaVolt
    I would also wonder how a frame with a crack on the lug got shipped to me after a special inspection Tom did seem to require from his people at the warehouse.

    But yes, I agree the crack is very strange. These lugs would be the last thing to be damaged. Logically, tf the frame were hit in transportation, the rear triangle would have to be smashed to pieces first. It's hard to imagine a force that could cause a crack on this lug without braking other frame parts. The only thing that comes to mind is a hit directly on the lug before assembly.

    I am very happy the problem was solved and I clearly understand it could all end up not so good but for the goodwill of people at eDiscountBikes.
    ...

    BTW, does anyone know a source for Gore Ride-On Shifter Cables? They used to make them in yellow, too, and yellow would go fine with the dark blue frame. I canít wait for the rear triangle to arrive to finally build up my new bike.

  11. #11
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    Be careful when you reassemble....

    If those cracks are where I think they are, it looks to me like possibly the wrong size reducers were used on the shock eyelet. When the shock is in position to be bolted in place, there should be no endplay between the reducers and the frame mounting flanges; the reducers should create a very tight fit. If there is play, when the mounting bolt is tightened down it will draw those flanges inward and put a lot of stress on them. When they are relieved of excess metal like yours are, there are going to be some weak spots, and the cracks in your photos seem to connect those spots.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by alibi
    If those cracks are where I think they are, it looks to me like possibly the wrong size reducers were used on the shock eyelet. When the shock is in position to be bolted in place, there should be no endplay between the reducers and the frame mounting flanges; the reducers should create a very tight fit. If there is play, when the mounting bolt is tightened down it will draw those flanges inward and put a lot of stress on them. When they are relieved of excess metal like yours are, there are going to be some weak spots, and the cracks in your photos seem to connect those spots.
    I've got everything covered.
    The person who brought me the frame also brought me lots of other stuff including K2 Razorback rebuild kit, Noleen rear shock rebuild kit, the reducer/bushings set you just mentioned, a rear shock pump with a no-leak valve (not sure what the difference is, but still), rear derailleur hanger for the frame, a 31.6 seatpost and some other stuff, too. All I need is a front triangle, and this precious part is probably on the way to me now.

    2KMan: I remember about you and Ride-On thing, if I find them I'll definitely let you know. What color? )

  13. #13
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    Yesss!!!

    The replacement part arrived! The front triangle, it is here!! Last time someone sent me something from abroad it took several month to make it to me. It was a X-mas gift from Great Britain, and it came here (Russia) in July. With that experience I didnít really expect much even when Joan from eDiscountbikes said the part was sent. It took only three weeks to come here. Looks like I'm lucky.

    I am very happy with my new frame. It is really nice. I weighted it and itís 2500 grams (5.51lbs) with the rear shock and its lockout thing.

  14. #14
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    A buddy of mine asked me today if it's safe to buy from eDiscountbike.com.

    I said hell yeah!!! They sent out a replacement triangle for free to me in Russia to honor the warranty that was ending the week I found that crack.

    I'd really like to take this opportunity to thank eDiscountbike again for their trust and great customer support. Thank you Tom, thank you Joan! Thank you for being there!

    By the way, the bike built on this frame is still alive and works beautifully, the only maintenance I did was I changed a couple of bearings in the frame and an o-ring in the rear shock.
    Last edited by MegaVolt; 06-18-2009 at 06:06 PM.

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