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  1. #1
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    Bike weight curiosity - what are you comfortable with?

    Browsed through a lot of "super bikes" on VitalMTB's bike checks out of random curiosity today and saw 34 lbs come up quite often for 140-160mm FS bikes. My lightest all-rounder bike was a bit over 29 lbs, a Enduro 29 with carbon frame and rims, but I'm on 42+ lbs today (added heavyweight parts on purpose).

    I think the lightest bike I ever had was a bit over 23 lbs, an Air 9 RDO with Reverb dropper post. I didn't put too miles on that one, opting for a more capable bike.

    I know people are going to come in here claiming to not weigh stuff, and that's who I'm really wanting to ask here. What weight is your bike, going with such an attitude?

  2. #2
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    32 pounds banshee prime 130-140 trail bike, feel super light weight compared to my electric bike

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    My 120/130mm trail bikes are 28.2 and 29.8 lb ready to ride. I'd like to stay under 30lb for any similar bike but ~32 wouldn't be a show stopper.
    Do the math.

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    SS Jones Spaceframe is 27# with 29's F&R, 29# with the fat front.
    Pugsley, is 31-33 depending on rim/wheel/fork setup, plus all the trailer shit..
    Those are my only two complete bikes at the moment, so couldn't say on the rest, but imagine nothing will be under 27#
    Silly bike things happening.

  5. #5
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    Bike weight curiosity - what are you comfortable with?

    My next 120/120mm bike will be under 24lbs. Durable enough to hit 10-20ft tables and ride CO terrain at pace.


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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    My next 120/120mm bike will be under 24lbs. Durable enough to hit 10-20ft tables and ride CO terrain at pace.
    Details? My imagination might be biased, but I'm thinking Tallboy or Ripley, but those aren't 120/120. What kind of longevity do you get out of your bikes? I'm imagining from the Ranger patch, you're like one of them Spartan Warrior types, whose profession is to be fit? How do you even get FS that light? No dropper?

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    Bike weight curiosity - what are you comfortable with?

    Since I ride XC HTs Iím comfortable with anything below 10kg (roughly 22lbs).


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  8. #8
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    I think suspension characteristics and tire tread pattern matter more than weight, but 42 lbs seems really excessive, unless it's a DH bike. My 140/130 5010 is 31+ lbs with 2.6 tires. It pedals really well, and feels light on its feet, even though it's 4 lbs heavier than my last xc bike. It doesn't bother me one bit.

    IMO 30 - 35 lbs is acceptable for a mid-travel, all rounder. Over 35 lbs, and I don't think I'd want to pedal that all day, but getting under 30lbs can get really expensive.

  9. #9
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    Steel SS hardtail with a 140mm fork- I don't know what it weighs and I don't care. Probably close to 30 pounds or 13.5 kg. I can't think of any "lightweight" parts I would consider putting on it because I would not trust them and/ or I don't feel like spending the $$.

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    42 lbs because 1500g rear tire, added Abus Bordo Granit folding lock to underside of downtube (4 lbs), 9 lb frame without shock (custom geo steel), coil...

    I did multiple 50 mi rides on it. I was doing 50 mile rides regularly before it, on a less burdensome bike. People seem surprised, but it just takes me slightly longer to complete the same distance, since they're both geared and I choose according to what intensity level suits my comfort zone.

  11. #11
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    Many lightweight parts hold up just as well as heavier parts.
    Through careful selection and by spending some coin you can really get a great weight on a full on enduro bike.
    I'm comfortable taking my 30# 150/ 160 ready to ride Enduro bike to the Bike Park and sending it. The only part I desire to change for that day are my tires.

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  12. #12
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    I'd never weighed my bikes, but this thread made me curious so I just stepped into the garage to check their weights. I have 3 complete MTBs right now, all 3 of which are hardtail XC frames built up inexpensively with a mish-mash of parts bin parts. They weigh 26.6 lbs, 27.0 lbs, and 27.3 lbs respectively for the carbon, steel, and aluminum bikes.

    Based solely on that, I think I'd probably prefer my bikes didn't go much over 30#. I like long rides that also include plenty of climbing with big descents as rewards, so I don't want to grind a bunch of extra weight up the hills. I am only 160lbs and am more of a finesse rider than a point and shoot rider, so I don't need something burly to hold up underneath me.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    Many lightweight parts hold up just as well as heavier parts.
    Through careful selection and by spending some coin you can really get a great weight on a full on enduro bike.
    I'm comfortable taking my 30# 150/ 160 ready to ride Enduro bike to the Bike Park and sending it. The only part I desire to change for that day are my tires.
    Contradicts self in back to back sentences.
    Rigid SS 29er
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    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  14. #14
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    Next question: How many people reading this don't have a clue what their bike weighs because they've never put it on a scale?
    Rigid SS 29er
    SS 29+
    Fat Lefty
    SS cyclocross
    Full Sus 29er (Yuck)

    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

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    140/130 FS all carbon mtb at 26.5 lbs

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    Next question: How many people reading this don't have a clue what their bike weighs because they've never put it on a scale?
    Me.

    By feel maybe 30lbs, but I don't lift my bike, I ride it.
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  17. #17
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    Steel 1x10 HT 29er with 140mm Yari: 33.5 lbs.

    Steel SS rigid 29er : 30.3 lbs.

    Steel road bike (vintage with flat bar conversion): 28.0 lbs.

    I could lose a pound or 3 off each one with some better component selections, but need to get 20 lbs. off my fat arse first.
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  18. #18
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    Clearly there is no one weight for a bike that is ideal and there is probably not a lot of difference in the usual normal weight range of the kinds of bikes that people on MTBR either own or would like to own.

    But heavy is heavy. I had one of the original Surly Pugsly fat bikes and it weighed 45 pounds. I was like pedaling a boat anchor (although it was a fun bike). I have a Salsa Beargrease fat bike that weighs 22 pounds (after repalcing the alloy stem, handlebars, and seatpost with carbon fiber) and there is a huge difference in the riding experience.

    If you have to strain to pick the bike up to get it over fallen trees it's probably too heavy.

    As for weight not mattering, when I take all of my gear off my bikepacking bike the weight immediately drops from 50 pounds to 25 pounds and it feels like a different bike.

    I had the Pugsly in a box, disassembled (after moving) and had planned to put it back together as a grocery-getter but lost interest and sold it "as is" for 300 bucks

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    Contradicts self in back to back sentences.
    Have no idea what you think is contradictory unless you don't think a 30# ready to shred with tire inserts, Avy cartridges, DH rear rim Large Enduro bike is light? That's about 4# lighter than similar builds and it shreds.

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  21. #21
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    You said you would take your 30lb bike to the bike park as-is, then said you would want to swap tires. That's all.
    Rigid SS 29er
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    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  22. #22
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    Lol, just weighed my aluminum rigid with a carbon fork, and got ~25lbs with an empty bottle. Not sure how you would get a FS under that, but I bet it feels rad when you do.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    You said you would take your 30lb bike to the bike park as-is, then said you would want to swap tires. That's all.
    Ah, I see.
    Yes I prefer different tires for trail riding than I do for park riding.

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  24. #24
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    My bike is an XL, and weighs 32.3 lbs. with a water bottle and tool bag. My gfís bike is a medium 5010, it weighs 26.7 lbs. I would love to drop a couple pounds off the bike.

  25. #25
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    This Singlespeed titanium is 25.4lbs. As shown. I have no regrets:



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  26. #26
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    My 150/130 alloy 27.5" trailbike is a touch under 14kg, or a little over 30lbs, with a 170mm dropper, carbon rims (Nextie) and bars. I wouldn't be unhappy if it was lighter, but I wouldn't cry if it were a touch heavier either so long as the weight wasn't on the wheels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    My next 120/120mm bike will be under 24lbs. Durable enough to hit 10-20ft tables and ride CO terrain at pace.
    You forgot to include "for guys who ride smooth and weigh 150lbs".

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    Details? My imagination might be biased, but I'm thinking Tallboy or Ripley, but those aren't 120/120. What kind of longevity do you get out of your bikes? I'm imagining from the Ranger patch, you're like one of them Spartan Warrior types, whose profession is to be fit? How do you even get FS that light? No dropper?
    My former profession was Army infantry officer (11A 5S), and being fit was a part of my job, sure. Hard to run for your life through the mountains of Afghanistan if you're a slow, weak fatty.

    In terms of bike weight, I'd go with something like:

    Orbea OIZ TR
    120mm 34 SC
    1400g carbon wheelset + Tubolight liners
    XX1 11s drivetrain w/Hollowgram crank
    XTR brakes
    Ikon 2.35/Rekon Race 2.35
    Fizik Antares 00 saddle
    BikeYoke Divine SL dropper
    XTR pedals

    My current bike is a 120mm/100mm Yeti ASRc, which I've had since October 2015.
    Quote Originally Posted by David R View Post
    My 150/130 alloy 27.5" trailbike is a touch under 14kg, or a little over 30lbs, with a 170mm dropper, carbon rims (Nextie) and bars. I wouldn't be unhappy if it was lighter, but I wouldn't cry if it were a touch heavier either so long as the weight wasn't on the wheels.



    You forgot to include "for guys who ride smooth and weigh 150lbs".
    Yeah. I can get away with a lighter bike than many people because I'm 150lbs or less fully dressed and ride very smoothly.
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  28. #28
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    Within reason, bike weight means very little to me. It took me numerous bikes and large amounts of money to realize that. Apart from internet bragging rights, not a very good return on investment. At least not for me.

    In my view, staying in the 30 lb range without skimping on rubber (e.g.; Minions) is a very reasonable weight for an aggressive trail bike. That said, I would have zero issues riding one a few pounds more.
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    Next question: How many people reading this don't have a clue what their bike weighs because they've never put it on a scale?
    I admit I have never put my bike on scale. I tend to believe it is 11.95kg based on manufacturer spec, and one component I have replaced so far. I am aware that there are tolerances, but the thing is - I like my bike to feel light and nimble, and I'm not strictly obsessed with overall weight. But I do plan to upgrade wheels and tires, cause I can really feel difference in that rotational mass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    42 lbs because 1500g rear tire, added Abus Bordo Granit folding lock to underside of downtube (4 lbs), 9 lb frame without shock (custom geo steel), coil...

    I did multiple 50 mi rides on it. I was doing 50 mile rides regularly before it, on a less burdensome bike. People seem surprised, but it just takes me slightly longer to complete the same distance, since they're both geared and I choose according to what intensity level suits my comfort zone.
    So if you build your bike the way you want it, and are happy with the way it rides, why does the weight matter? Why obsessively weigh each component when clearly you're not making decisions based on that? It's just a number and yet people get so hung up on weight.

    Example: Anyone visit the Salsa Spearfish thread lately? No? Oh, that's probably because the only thing people wanted to talk about in that thread is the weight of the new frame. There's no stoke, no fun, no pics, no cool stories, no nothing, just repeated inquiries about how much it weighs. It's a shame.
    Rigid SS 29er
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    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyrmxd View Post
    I admit I have never put my bike on scale. I like my bike to feel light and nimble, and I'm not strictly obsessed with overall weight. But I do plan to upgrade wheels and tires, cause I can really feel difference in that rotational mass.
    Agreed, good wheels are a good investment.
    Rigid SS 29er
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    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  32. #32
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    I know how much each of my bikes weigh. I've owned many bikes, heavy and light and in between. Weight makes a difference. Not a little difference. Weight makes all the difference. The question is always the same. How light can I afford?
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  33. #33
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    My full suspension bike weighs around 36 pounds. I wish it were lighter, but I canít do much about it. Itís getting pretty old now, but the 180mm of travel at both ends is superb in quality and the geometry is modern enough. I would have to spend 6 grand+ to get a bike that descends the gnarly terrain as well, and that ainít gonna happen any time soon.

    My XC hardtail is not that light; probably around 29 pounds. Iím way faster on it in *most* conditions locally, when looking at overall trail times. I borrowed a friends 24 pound carbon hardtail for about 6 months a while back and I actually prefer mine even though itís heavier. I have a bit more travel up front, wide bars, a dropper, and tires that can actually handle rocks and roots.

    I spent this season trying to drop my own body weight more, since I live on a very tight budget. I weighed 220 about 4 years ago, and now Iím at 185 without giving up any strength. I got a lot of KOMs this season, mostly on descents, with my heavier bikes. I donít doubt Iíd be faster if either bike lost a few pounds.

    When Iím not racing or Strava chasing it doesnít matter a bit. Most of the time itís about choosing the right bike for the job. If itís going to be short in distance but with a lot of technical vert, then I donít mind my heavy enduro bike. But when the miles start to exceed 20 and the angles are low, I like my efficient XC bike.

    I think the perfect do-it-all bike for me would be in the neighborhood of 28 pounds, 130mm FS 29er, running 2.3 Minions.

  34. #34
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    I think wheelbase makes more difference than weight, IMO.

    A 1150mm wheelbase bike will be easy to bunnyhop and throw around. It gets pinballed left-and-right by the trail at higher speeds though.

    A 1250mm wheelbase bike will be a struggle manhandle, and your bunnyhops will be a bit lower (compared to something like a XC/trail hardtail). It carries itself in a straighter and more composed manner at higher speeds though.

    Was just questioning if people finally dropped the weight obsession, coming up with weird prejudice about how heavier things would handle. Like I bet people would find a 50 lb ebike unbearable to pedal without assist, without trying it. They just claim to know.

    Regarding lighter parts holding up just as well as heavier parts: I once tried to explain the concept of material fatigue life, and people thought I was talking nonsense and angry-mobbed me out. I was saying stuff like it explains JRA failures; circumstances in which you feel less confident in your bike due to it feeling wonky, checking things over to see if there's anything wrong with the bike but not finding anything. As a result you might take it easy for awhile, until it fails on you on something low impact like a modest climb. Get outraged by how component can fail on a tame trail, and how dangerous it could've been if they were riding something more advanced. Long story short, the lightweight parts are suspect in terms of longevity.

  35. #35
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    Turner Flux is right at 26 pounds.

    GF Superfly 100 is 25 pounds.

  36. #36
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    my hightower is 28+lbs (don't remember the exact weight when I picked it up a the shop) and feels great to me, my transition scout is probably about 32+lbs and does feel heavier but is still fun and my hardtail is probably about 26lbs+/- a bit and feels light. Regardless they all are fun and put a smile on my face.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Yeah. I can get away with a lighter bike than many people because I'm 150lbs or less fully dressed and ride very smoothly.
    Ha, did I get your weight right? I remembered you being light but took a total guess at the actual number!

    Rider weight and rider skill definitely both make a big difference as to how strong/heavy your bikes need to be, and in that regard I feel many people on longer travel bikes are totally over-biked (just looking at the punishment some of those parts can take at EWS pro level competition). But that's probably better than regularly breaking stuff like back in the good old days...

    It's been a long time since I rode a bike as light as yours, aside from one brief moment when a friend and I swapped bikes for a climb and I rode his 100mm carbon Jamis full-XC thing. Yeah it made a little difference to how I climbed, but not enough to make me want to dump a ton of money into my own bike to try lighten it up. I think there are a bunch of other factors like tyre choice and suspension design that would effect climbing/pedalling efficiency over weight. I just thought about it, my hardtail (Kona Explosif) is only a pound or so (ish)lighter than my FS bike but I'm considerably faster climbing on that than the FS (at least on gravel, road and more mellow trails).

  38. #38
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    28 to 32 lbs within the 4 bikes I have. 3 steel and one alu. The 32 lb bike gets most use, is on 3.0 tires and gets loaded with camping gear now and then hauling another 30# of gear.
    None were bought by a weight spec, mostly just shopped by local availability and some bike reviews that fit the upper tier of reviews for the respective budget and type of riding.

    I'm just now thinking the next test ride and consideration if proven worthwhile will be something in the 24 to 26 lb cf h/t. I'm anxious to feel the difference in 4 to 6# but not hell-bent for speed or competition. I won't ever be a weight weenie but if I got a 24 / 26 lb bike, I'd keep it bare bones and not a lot of add-on's. My steel bikercamper looks like a rolling yard sale sometimes.
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lopaka View Post
    I know how much each of my bikes weigh. I've owned many bikes, heavy and light and in between. Weight makes a difference. Not a little difference. Weight makes all the difference. The question is always the same. How light can I afford?
    I sort of hate that you verified my experiences. I actually feel the same, I just go faster overall, when I lighten my bike in a meaningful manner.

    It's really all about the wheels and tires and what a balance it is when it comes to tires. Light and fast rolling, or sturdy with high traction but quite slow.

    Ninjachor expressed that there is a direct correlation between reliability and weight but that often isn't so. I.e. Onyx hubs are quite heavy, and there are many hubs that are equal or even more reliable that are much lighter. And Onyx isn't even cheap. You can buy Aluminum bars, or CF bars with no discernable difference in reliability but save 100+grams easily. Many times it just takes money to get the weight off. Light seats are another example of this, no change in real world reliability just a change in weight in exchange for money. Stems, cassettes, droppers, brakes (the best Enduro brakes are also the lightest), wheels, spokes, cranks (once again the strongest are actually the lightest as well) etc... can all often be lighter AND stronger.

    I'm certifiable WW but don't skip reliability (although I flirt with the edge when it comes to tires). Still run the best suspension I can get, tire inserts F & R, aggressive tires, DH rear rim, etc. Still saving weight where I can, really adds up over several parts.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    I sort of hate that you verified my experiences. I actually feel the same, I just go faster overall, when I lighten my bike in a meaningful manner.

    It's really all about the wheels and tires and what a balance it is when it comes to tires. Light and fast rolling, or sturdy with high traction but quite slow.

    Ninjachor expressed that there is a direct correlation between reliability and weight but that often isn't so. I.e. Onyx hubs are quite heavy, and there are many hubs that are equal or even more reliable that are much lighter. And Onyx isn't even cheap. You can buy Aluminum bars, or CF bars with no discernable difference in reliability but save 100+grams easily. Many times it just takes money to get the weight off. Light seats are another example of this, no change in real world reliability just a change in weight in exchange for money. Stems, cassettes, droppers, brakes (the best Enduro brakes are also the lightest), wheels, spokes, cranks (once again the strongest are actually the lightest as well) etc... can all often be lighter AND stronger.

    I'm certifiable WW but don't skip reliability (although I flirt with the edge when it comes to tires). Still run the best suspension I can get, tire inserts F & R, aggressive tires, DH rear rim, etc. Still saving weight where I can, really adds up over several parts.
    You nailed it here.

    I build my bikes up to be exactly as durable as they need to be. The only time I've broken a light weight part was when a piece of sharp, 1/2" rebar poking up out of concrete killed a carbon rim. Tire went flat instantly, and I heard the distinctive sound of the impact of steel on carbon rim, yet I still rode it down the very rocky trail, then rode home.
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  41. #41
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    For me its not about total weight but where the weight is distributed. So my wheelset is reasonbly light, as is my fork. But my shock is a coil boat anchor, yet it doesn't bother me at all while riding, nor does my heavy-ish aluminum frame.

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  42. #42
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    Depends on the intended usage, generally speaking, as light as I can go without breaking things. For something I'm not going to beat on too much, 24-25lbs or so is fine. For an all-round trail bike, about 27-28lbs or so. A long travel bike that's going to be ridden recklessly, abused, and crashed? About 32lbs.

  43. #43
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    Haven't weighted my bikes either, but my guesstimate would be 31 for the en intense carbine (heavy tires, cushcores) and 24.5 xc (not the lightest xc tires either)
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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    My former profession was Army infantry officer (11A 5S), and being fit was a part of my job, sure. Hard to run for your life through the mountains of Afghanistan if you're a slow, weak fatty.

    In terms of bike weight, I'd go with something like:

    Orbea OIZ TR
    120mm 34 SC
    1400g carbon wheelset + Tubolight liners
    XX1 11s drivetrain w/Hollowgram crank
    XTR brakes
    Ikon 2.35/Rekon Race 2.35
    Fizik Antares 00 saddle
    BikeYoke Divine SL dropper
    XTR pedals

    My current bike is a 120mm/100mm Yeti ASRc, which I've had since October 2015.


    Yeah. I can get away with a lighter bike than many people because I'm 150lbs or less fully dressed and ride very smoothly.
    That's probably not going to come in under 24lbs. Probably upper 24 or lower 25.

    Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk

  45. #45
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    I think my medium Enduro is right on 30lbs with 170mm fork and coil rear shock. Could probably shave some weight still but I haven't looked into it for awhile.

  46. #46
    Formerly of Kent
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    Bike weight curiosity - what are you comfortable with?

    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    That's probably not going to come in under 24lbs. Probably upper 24 or lower 25.

    Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk
    Weíll see. Basically the same parts list as my Yeti, which is 23.3lbs. New dropper (Fall Line R or BikeYoke Divine SL) should take some weight off compared to my Specialized Command Post IRCC.

    Frame weight should be a wash, from what I can tell.


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    Death from Below.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Weíll see. Basically the same parts list as my Yeti, which is 23.3lbs. New dropper (Fall Line R or BikeYoke Divine SL) should take some weight off compared to my Specialized Command Post IRCC.

    Frame weight should be a wash, from what I can tell.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I'm not built much differently and am at 26. Getting the XT cranks off and some Next Rs on may get me under that. I'll probably end up running the Berd wheels which will be about a pound so high 24. My Deity cockpit, other than pedals isn't that much heavier and I'm running a FallLine R 150mm which would make the wheel difference a wash most likely. If you go for the shortest travel one, dropper, you might get there.

    Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk

  48. #48
    chasing simplicity
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    I like my xc/marathon ride to be under 22 lbs. I like my trail bike to be under 26.

    Current rides:
    2020 Santa Cruz Blur cc 100/100mm (specs on Santa Cruz Build and Picture thread) with dropper and pedals: 21.8 lbs

    2015 Santa Cruz 5010 c 130/125 (recently remodeled for my wife (but Iíll ride it more..see 5010 Picture Thread) with Fox 34, Transfer dropper, Cane Creek DB Coil IL, pedals: 25.2 lbs
    Never underestimate an old man with a mountain bike.

  49. #49
    the half breed devil
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    31.0 on the shop's scale for my highly modified marin hawk hill.

    https://www.vitalmtb.com/community/s...n=CommentAdded

    30 even for my pine mountain 29er hardtail, almost straight stock.

    27 and change for my karate monkey single speed with a carbon fork and old school rim brake wheels. last time it's been on a scale was a few years ago, with the steel fork. same for the pine mountain.

    the lightest bike i ever owned was a '99 ibis alibi i was able to get down to 23.9 with a manitou SX-TI, xtr/mavic 217s, xt/xtr drivetrain driven by race face turbine cranks, carbon easton riser and syncros seatpost. most of the time, the tires were ritchey speed max 2.0.

    boy, that bike would climb like a dickens but it didn't like the rough stuff much.

    right now, i'm wishing the HH climbed a little quicker, because it IS heavy-sh and my riding involves a lot of long fire road grinds. but then again, i know what this bike is and who i am and i'm at peace with all that. (i just screw the LSC all the way in until i get to the top)

    Bike weight curiosity - what are you comfortable with?-00000002.jpg

  50. #50
    Not a role model
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    @SunsPSD I agree with being picky with tires and specific spots for weight savings like wheels helping with lap times, but I'm questioning the importance of it for non-racers.

    I questioned it as a non-racer and found ebikes as being a solution I'd choose over cutting weight on a budget. Choose between non-assisted, and multiple assist levels to determine speed, assuming that the rider wants to put out a consistent physical effort, rather than spend less effort for similar speed.

    I specifically called out the longevity being suspect in lightweight parts, based on how people word their shopping habits. Weight conscious types seemingly balance price with weight, and gamble with strength.

    You bring up handlebars and no discernible real world difference, so attached something that suggests that you should consider fatigue life. I know people like to follow the logic of some quotes like, "definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results," but I question this enough that I believe it's falsely attributed to Einstein.

    You brought up saddles too. Plenty of evidence out there of busted saddles. I've personally witnessed carbon rails (e.g. Spec Phenom) and cheap steel (e.g. OEM Velo) fail while riding.

    Other things I avoid: lightweight pedal spindles, stems with narrowly-spaced bolt patterns (typically lightweight road ones), XC forks, tires & brakes, hollow-pin chains with plate cut-outs...

    I suppose I just overcompensate with "bombproof" stuff whenever something fails.
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  51. #51
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    I own a FS XC bike and some road/gravel bikes. 25 and under...lower weight is better in my situation.
    The only important thing these days, is rhythm and melody. Rhythm...and melody.

  52. #52
    CEO Product Failure
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    30lbs +/- 3lbs is my sweet spot for mtbs.

    My 5" travel dualie is ~31 lbs
    My fat bike is ~27 lbs (no suspsension, full rigid).
    My racing HT is ~23 lbs. Its lightweight is not worth the trade-off for handling (has a tendency to drift at speed) and twitchiness (steers and accelerates like a 5 year old eating a bag of Halloween candy).

    My roadie is 19lbs which is perfect. Bianchi steel with carbon front fork.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    @SunsPSD I agree with being picky with tires and specific spots for weight savings like wheels helping with lap times, but I'm questioning the importance of it for non-racers.

    I questioned it as a non-racer and found ebikes as being a solution I'd choose over cutting weight on a budget. Choose between non-assisted, and multiple assist levels to determine speed, assuming that the rider wants to put out a consistent physical effort, rather than spend less effort for similar speed.

    I specifically called out the longevity being suspect in lightweight parts, based on how people word their shopping habits. Weight conscious types seemingly balance price with weight, and gamble with strength.

    You bring up handlebars and no discernible real world difference, so attached something that suggests that you should consider fatigue life. I know people like to follow the logic of some quotes like, "definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results," but I question this enough that I believe it's falsely attributed to Einstein.

    You brought up saddles too. Plenty of evidence out there of busted saddles. I've personally witnessed carbon rails (e.g. Spec Phenom) and cheap steel (e.g. OEM Velo) fail while riding.

    Other things I avoid: lightweight pedal spindles, stems with narrowly-spaced bolt patterns (typically lightweight road ones), XC forks, tires & brakes, hollow-pin chains with plate cut-outs...

    I suppose I just overcompensate with "bombproof" stuff whenever something fails.
    I'd argue that lightening up the current ride is less expensive than purchasing an entirely new e-bike! That's before you get to the moral complication of riding a motorized cycle on trails labeled 'no motorized vehicles'.

    Seriously if you have the budget a nice set of XC wheels + tires and a locked out rear shock will make an Enduro bike a LOT faster on those occasions where that gear is acceptable.

    I went the route of 'build the ultimate bike of one' instead of buying an additional light duty bike. It works for me, but then I don't race XC.

  54. #54
    Life's a Garden, dig it!
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    My hardtail is slightly sub-20 and my URT Sweetspot is an ounce or two under 25. My son and I were riding awhile back and he asked me to ride his 30+ lb. Norco. I think he really wanted to try the light-ish HT. He loved it. I, on the other hand, thought I was going to die.

    I do light on a budget and it works for me.
    "And crawling on the planet's face, some insects called, The Human Race..."

  55. #55
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    I am too cheap to care. My bike is fun as it is and I have no idea how much it weights.
    Ragley Big Wig, Sunday Soundwave (BMX), Nashbar CXSS (workout)

  56. #56
    Hardtail Steel Forever
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    My 80mm SS is 16 lbs.
    My 80mm geared XC is around 21.
    My 150mm FS AM is around 27.
    My rigid CX bike is around 18.5.

    IME, wheel weight will make a much bigger difference on how the bike rides compared to static weight, but I don't care for super heavy bikes, so I tend to try and get away with as light as possible in all areas.
    WTB: Med Bontrager Ti Lite, PM Me...

  57. #57
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    Honestly have no idea. I'd guess in the 30lb range. Pivot Mach 5.5 carbon with the X01 build. I am running I9 Enduro S Wheels, but honestly don't know, don't care.

    Feels a bit lighter than my SC Heckler 5. I had the SC weighed when I had it built 15 years ago and it was 31.7 with a full coil suspension. I added components that lightened it over the years, converted to 1x, and air spring in the rear, etc... So I would guess it ended up around 30 as well. but honestly don't know.

    I have people ask me all the time how much the Pivot weighs...no idea, but it rides good.

    Situation is analogous to archery. Everyone wants to know how fast the bow is. I have an idea(+or - 10 fps) on mine but never chronographed it.

    Backpacking is the same way....I buy light components when I can, but I don't count grams, or even lbs, like some do.

    Way too many variables, just like with the bike. That said I am running cushcore inserts and want to take them out just to see how it feels. Ive never ridden the current bike without them.

  58. #58
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    My 1st MTB was rigid steel and 32#, and I did a lot of silly things on that bike.

    I try to stay under that. Under 30# is better. At 27.5# now. Anything lighter will probly fail.

    -F
    It's never easier - you just go faster.

  59. #59
    Rides all the bikes!
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    First ride, my E29 was 35 pounds. Plus 2 pounds of stuff in the SWAT box, and I always ride with a full water bottle even if I don't need it.

    I've since swapped out the stock carbon wheels (cracked the rear) and replaced with aluminum wheels I built, probably added a little weight. Put on an XO1 cassette recently after destroying another GX, that dropped some.

    Ready to ride, I would call it 38 pounds. But I haven't weighed it, and I don't care. It is strong enough for most of my riding. Not much more I can do with it to make it stronger, really. And I don't want a DH rig since I like to climb too much.

    XC hardtail is another story. Last weigh in was 21 pounds, without water and spares (otherwise race ready). But I only use that for races.

  60. #60
    Raleigh
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    Never weighed my modified TB3. Running a carbon wheelset and other goodies.

    I'm 6' and 170lbs on an XL, and ride mostly rooted and rocky trails.
    2017 Santa Cruz TB3 CS
    2019 Salsa Cutthroat Rival 1

  61. #61
    Wanna ride bikes?
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    This guy gets it. If you just want the short version start at the 3 min mark, you can stop by 4:30. By then he's done making fun of people (and the bike industry) who lift a bike to determine if it's any good. "are you going to carry it?"

    https://www.vitalmtb.com/videos/memb.../iceman2058,94

    We would be friends in real life.

    He mentions it again towards the end of the video, but the whole thing is interesting and worth watching.
    Rigid SS 29er
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    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  62. #62
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    I've stopped caring, to be honest. My current bike was just a hair under 32# but that was before I added slightly heavier tires and swapped clips for flats. I'm sure it's over that now. I've resigned to the fact that I like tires that are tough and grip the trail. I like wheels that don't require a lot of maintenance, and I'm just not going to spend $1000 to save a pound.

    To add to that, manufactures are getting wise to our antics. They now know that people like us take a 120 "trail" bike and see how big of a double we can clear with it. Carbon frames and wheels are built with durability in mind and the average $4.5k bike is now pushing right past the 30# line.
    The cake is a lie.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattMay View Post
    Current rides:
    2020 Santa Cruz Blur cc 100/100mm (specs on Santa Cruz Build and Picture thread) with dropper and pedals: 21.8 lbs

    Are you loving this? I owned a few Blur XC's some time ago and loved them. Light and responsive...the VPP seemed to work well.
    The only important thing these days, is rhythm and melody. Rhythm...and melody.

  64. #64
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    My Trance adv 2 (XL) 27.5 is right about 29.8~lbs with 2.6 Minion DHF and 2.5 aggressor on the back..and deity highside 50mm riser bars.

    it is fine... in my case the weight of the rider is a much bigger concern than the weight of the bike.. ~270lbs 6'3"

    I quite like this bike

    Bike weight curiosity - what are you comfortable with?-trance.jpg
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  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    Next question: How many people reading this don't have a clue what their bike weighs because they've never put it on a scale?
    this is me

    ...until I joined this forum 6 years ago, I didn't realize non pro racers worried about bike weight...

    I have a 2014 Krampus...all stock parts minus the tires, which are newer Knards...I am guessing 35lbs (?)

    I do know that it feels heavier on top of me after a crash than under me while riding....
    Go practice. Figure it out. - Fleas

    15 Surly Krampus - King Amongst Bikes
    LET IT SNOW!

  66. #66
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    3 bikes, all have dual ply/enduro/tough casing rear tires, and 1 has dual ply/enduro/tough casing front and rear.

    Yeti SB100 Turq XO1 Race - 27.5lbs changes made are carbon wheels, Double Down rear tire, Guide Ultimate Brakes, 180mm rear rotor.

    Yeti SB130 Turq T1 Shimano XT 12S - 32.5lbs changes made are carbon wheels, WTB Tough Casing front and rear, 203 rotors front and rear, MRP Chain Guide/Bash Guard.

    Chameleon C Hardtail Custom - 29lbs aluminum wheels, XT/XTR 11S drivetrain, XT 2-piston brakes, 203/180 rotors, 140mm Fox 36, WTB Tough Casing rear tire.

    SB100 is the fastest pedaling bike because it's so light. The Chameleon is a fun and fast burly hardtail but not as fast as the SB100 unless the trail is smooth. The SB130 is my mid travel 'trail-duro' bike for chunkier terrain. Climbs and descends through chunk exceptionally well. Weights are all over the place. But the lightest bike is obviously the easiest to pedal around. I definitely feel the weight of my SB130, which takes more effort to get up to speed, and climbing steeps can be very tiring. The hardtail is a hardtail. Nothing special about it. It has all the advantages and disadvantages of a hardtail, except mine is carbon. Each bike handles and rides very, very differently from the other. Luckily, Yeti's SI makes for a very stiff and efficient pedaling platform.

    My bikes tend to be a little heavier than average. That's because I refuse to save weight on tires and brakes. Cut and slash protection is a must around my local trails. Lots of sharp limestone everywhere. You just never know when you'll get a cut. Thin tires are fine, until you slash the sidewall of a brand new one and are shelling out another $70-80. I'm a firm believer in that my brakes are my throttle. I'll put the strongest brakes on(within reason) for a particular type of bike.

    If I want a light bike, I'll get a light bike(which I already have) and run a heavy rear tire for insurance. I won't turn a big burly bike in to a weight-weenie version of itself by running thin tires.
    I no longer like to party. But I like the idea of it.

  67. #67
    always licking the glass
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    For me, the tires make the difference more than the overall weight. All my builds are on the stronger side and not the weight weenie side, but Iím not a small rider.

    Trail bike (carbon Shred Dogg) 32 lbs full coil. Rides faster with 2.6 (DHR2 and Rekon) than 2.5 DHFs but weighs the same. Convertible to an enduro bike (megatrail) with the same weight. Gonna try DHR2 2.6s front and rear next year.

    Hardtail is steel (Pedalhead) is 27-30 lbs, depending on if Iím running standard 2.8 tires (HR2 and rekons) or 3.0 studded wrathchilds for snow and ice.

    DH bike is a TR11 that is 38 lbs I think. It goes downhill and is also full coil. Runs DHF or maybe Assagais next year with 2.5 WT DD casing. This is the one Iíve spent a lot of time lightening up, but the place itís made the most difference is the tiresógoing from DH casing to DD has made a huge difference even though itís the same tire (2.5 DHFs).
    Guerrilla Gravity BAMF, Colorado Front Range
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  68. #68
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    Depends. For riding in the west where you are grinding up fire roads for most of your ride just to get to the descent, weight doesn't really matter. Just give me a lot of suspension and an Eagle drivetrain.

    For riding east of Missouri, where it's punchy singletrack with techy uphills and tight switch backs, the lighter the better.

  69. #69
    Keep on Rockin...
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    Next question: How many people reading this don't have a clue what their bike weighs because they've never put it on a scale?
    Me.

    But I have an uncanny ability to gauge the weight of things, like bikes and people. I think I worked in a circus in my prior life.

    So...

    My aluminum, coil shocked AM bike is probably about 33#

    My CF trail bike is probably about 27.5#

    DH bike, hmmm - maybe 37#

  70. #70
    Wanna ride bikes?
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    3:00 mark

    Rigid SS 29er
    SS 29+
    Fat Lefty
    SS cyclocross
    Full Sus 29er (Yuck)

    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    I think the lightest bike I ever had was a bit over 23 lbs, an Air 9 RDO with Reverb dropper post. I didn't put too miles on that one, opting for a more capable bike.

    I know people are going to come in here claiming to not weigh stuff, and that's who I'm really wanting to ask here. What weight is your bike, going with such an attitude?
    I'm the the 'don't weigh my bike' camp. I know what they are/were advertised to weigh, but never weighed them to verify that, or as time goes on and parts are replaced, etc.

    I'm also more keen to what the bikes does, its capability, etc., than about what it weighs. Just a lower priority for me. I've had, and have, bikes that weigh less than what I ride on a daily bases. Yet, I'm most comfortable, and more capable, and faster, on the heavier bike. Weight is just one variable of so many others. Design, function, and fit far outweigh weight for me.
    You didn't quit riding because you're old, you're old because you quit riding.

  72. #72
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    I've never weighed any bike or component in 30 years of riding. I'm 6'4" / 220 lbs so my bikes have always been huge. After breaking a few over the years a bulletproof burly design and components are way more important than weight. I don't even look at weight when replacing components so spending an extra $100 for a cassette that weighs 50g less isn't even a consideration. Never had a carbon bike but I did have a carbon chainstay on a Trek Fuel that broke and cost me $600 to replace around 2008. I'm sure it's nice but carbon anything is just not worth the cost to me.

    Current bike is 2018 Kona Process 153 alu frame (27.5). I think it's about 34lbs and probably heavier than anything I've ever owned. It climbs better, is solid as a rock through technical terrain and is by far the most fun ride I've ever had. It came with DHF's front (2.5) and rear (2.3) and that's what I've stayed with (on my 3rd set). Traction and tough durable sidewalls are way more important to me than weight or rolling resistance.

    WTB asym i29 wheels are tough and have stayed true but after 2500+ singletrack miles they are getting tired. I'm looking into options and will be focused on better hubs, 32 spokes and tough rims...may consider lacing my own.
    12 Santa Cruz Heckler
    18 Kona Process 153 AL/DL (27.5)...:thumbsup:

  73. #73
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    Love the Geometron video!
    12 Santa Cruz Heckler
    18 Kona Process 153 AL/DL (27.5)...:thumbsup:

  74. #74
    Rides all the bikes!
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    Quote Originally Posted by hesitationpoint View Post
    Depends. For riding in the west where you are grinding up fire roads for most of your ride just to get to the descent, weight doesn't really matter. Just give me a lot of suspension and an Eagle drivetrain.

    For riding east of Missouri, where it's punchy singletrack with techy uphills and tight switch backs, the lighter the better.
    I guess you have never ridden out west if you don't think we climb tech singletrack

    Yes, we have a lot of fireroad options too. But...yeah, I like the ST climbs when I ride. I only do the fireroad options if I am on a time restraint.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidewalk View Post
    I guess you have never ridden out west if you don't think we climb tech singletrack

    Yes, we have a lot of fireroad options too. But...yeah, I like the ST climbs when I ride. I only do the fireroad options if I am on a time restraint.
    I should have worded it differently. Didn't mean to imply that there is not technical climbing out there.

    It's just that out here, all you have are punchy singletracks with lots of uphill switchbacks, roots and rocks. The kinds where you have to have bursts of acceleration to clear obstacles while you are already climbing. I'm sure that exists in the West too, but it's not all you have.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by hesitationpoint View Post
    Depends. For riding in the west where you are grinding up fire roads for most of your ride just to get to the descent, weight doesn't really matter. Just give me a lot of suspension and an Eagle drivetrain.

    For riding east of Missouri, where it's punchy singletrack with techy uphills and tight switch backs, the lighter the better.
    I ride in KC and NWA. And for the majority for aggressive riders here, dual ply and/or Cush Core is a necessity. If they want to save their wheels and tires. I don't run a Cush Core because I run higher pressures to begin with. But there are a lot of sharp rocks here. And with this year's rainy season, all trails just got a little more gnarly due to erosion. NWA has a LOT of loose arrowhead shaped gravel. People regularly puncture tires in certain sections of Slaughter Pen and even Hobbs(happened to me).
    I no longer like to party. But I like the idea of it.

  77. #77
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    I've ridden Slaughter Pen and although it's a blast, rough and covered with sharp rocks it is not. Darn near a sidewalk compared to my local trails.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    I've ridden Slaughter Pen and although it's a blast, rough and covered with sharp rocks it is not. Darn near a sidewalk compared to my local trails.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
    I said certain sections, not its entirety. Notably, Hillbilly Highway Trail and thereabouts. I pulled 2 arrow shaped rocks out of my tires there in one day.
    I no longer like to party. But I like the idea of it.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    I've ridden Slaughter Pen and although it's a blast, rough and covered with sharp rocks it is not. Darn near a sidewalk compared to my local trails.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
    I'm assuming you didn't ride Master Plan or a lot of the hidden stuff in Phase 2.

    That said most of us run that stuff for Coler for Cush Core and the Back 40 for sidewall protection.

    Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk

  80. #80
    the half breed devil
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    Quote Originally Posted by hesitationpoint View Post
    Depends. For riding in the west where you are grinding up fire roads for most of your ride just to get to the descent, weight doesn't really matter. Just give me a lot of suspension and an Eagle drivetrain.

    For riding east of Missouri, where it's punchy singletrack with techy uphills and tight switch backs, the lighter the better.
    i live in the west.

    i grind up long fire roads on most of my rides, or the steep assed streets of san francisco.

    i would prefer to grind up long fire roads all day on a 25 pound bike than a 30 pound bike.

    i don't get how "weight doesn't matter".

    please explain your position...

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    Quote Originally Posted by shekky View Post
    i live in the west.

    i grind up long fire roads on most of my rides, or the steep assed streets of san francisco.

    i would prefer to grind up long fire roads all day on a 25 pound bike than a 30 pound bike.

    i don't get how "weight doesn't matter".

    please explain your position...
    I think part of what he was trying to say is that the greater mechanical advantage of the wider range drivetrain was a perfectly comfortable way to get to the top of a gravel road climb so you could party on the way back down on singletrack. So long as you're not in a race on the way up, you'll get there comfortably.

    Steeper/more technical climbs require a more responsive/better pedaling bike on the way up singletrack.

    At least that's my interpretation of his comments.
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    I think part of what he was trying to say is that the greater mechanical advantage of the wider range drivetrain was a perfectly comfortable way to get to the top of a gravel road climb so you could party on the way back down on singletrack. So long as you're not in a race on the way up, you'll get there comfortably.

    Steeper/more technical climbs require a more responsive/better pedaling bike on the way up singletrack.

    At least that's my interpretation of his comments.
    That and there was a little stereotyping towards the endurobro viewpoint, which I'm wholly guilty of on 90% of my rides, of not caring about the climbs at all other than as a mechanism to get to the descent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    That and there was a little stereotyping towards the endurobro viewpoint, which I'm wholly guilty of on 90% of my rides, of not caring about the climbs at all other than as a mechanism to get to the descent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    I think part of what he was trying to say is that the greater mechanical advantage of the wider range drivetrain was a perfectly comfortable way to get to the top of a gravel road climb so you could party on the way back down on singletrack. So long as you're not in a race on the way up, you'll get there comfortably.

    Steeper/more technical climbs require a more responsive/better pedaling bike on the way up singletrack.

    At least that's my interpretation of his comments.
    Yep that's exactly what I was trying to say. Thanks.

    But to shekky's point, sure I'd rather have a lighter bike all else equal even for fireroad climbs, but not if it comes at a cost of a less capable bike for the descent. I don't find fireroad climbs interesting. So I am not going to optimize my bike for that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shekky View Post
    does this mean i'm old?
    Not at all because I'm getting to the point where that number is coming down, used to be 100%.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hesitationpoint View Post
    Yep that's exactly what I was trying to say. Thanks.

    But to shekky's point, sure I'd rather have a lighter bike all else equal even for fireroad climbs, but not if it comes at a cost of a less capable bike for the descent. I don't find fireroad climbs interesting. So I am not going to optimize my bike for that.
    fair enough.

    as a matter of fact, my HH as i've got it set up isn't the best for long fire road climbs--which is pretty much how i get to any good stuff in marin county.

    my current level of fitness often reduces me to a pitiful snail-like crawl up these fire roads.

    i just deal with it and have fun on the way down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hesitationpoint View Post
    Depends. For riding in the west where you are grinding up fire roads for most of your ride just to get to the descent, weight doesn't really matter. Just give me a lot of suspension and an Eagle drivetrain.

    For riding east of Missouri, where it's punchy singletrack with techy uphills and tight switch backs, the lighter the better.
    Believe it or not, there are trails in many other places in the West besides So-cal and fireroads. The idea that you aren't climbing up a multi-thousand vertical singletrack with challenges and technical bits in the West is ridiculous. CO, WA, OR, NorCal, AZ, lots of places with technical climbing and punchy stuff.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shekky View Post
    fair enough.

    as a matter of fact, my HH as i've got it set up isn't the best for long fire road climbs--which is pretty much how i get to any good stuff in marin county.

    my current level of fitness often reduces me to a pitiful snail-like crawl up these fire roads.

    i just deal with it and have fun on the way down.
    I ride with others and am a talker.
    Only sometimes do I realize what the uphill trails or fire road climbs do to me about midway when most start at 6800 or 7000.
    Halfway through my discussion, story or testimony ie; blab-a-thon, I begin the perilous assessment of conserved breathage and focus on the easy lines, pedaling and shut-mouthedness. Sometimes, I even catch up or keep up with the others.
    Never was a strong climber and always shied away from going full sus because I'm pretty sure I'd be laying on the ground next to pretty nice, expensive bike that stole every last bit of my reserve. If I ever replace talking with 100% riding and breathing, I could probably make one of them fancy bikes work or at least try one uphill.

    As for scales to weight the bike, I've done so on the occasions of bike camp loading and reference info for packing and weight distribution.
    Maybe my answer to those questioning weight of my bike should be; "30# less than my last camping trip."
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    3:00 mark

    [video=youhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpAQwZhTLek[/vdeo]
    I have a lot of respect for that guy within his area of expertise.

    As a downhill guy, his making fun of people concerned about weight carries no water in my estimation.

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    Since I was bored I weighed my two heaviest bikes

    No compromise 160/160 bike is 30.4 lbs. That's with dropper, heavy tires, lots of sealant.
    120/130 trail bike with carbon seatpost is 26.6 lbs


    The apparent difference in nimbleness between the 160 and 120 bike is very noticeable.

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    Complete and total indifference. Awesome.

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    There's the saying, "don't go full enduro."

    People think they need to reach a certain level to even consider doing that. I, more or less, wanted to minimize excuses, and that led to my bikes getting heavy.

    It does make me wonder how many would reduce weight on their bike, by simply moving that weight to a backpack, like water, tools, and spares, believing that it's better that way.

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    Itís a matter of priorities and compromises.

    If you take a lift to the top for five of your six enduro stages, weight might not be of much or any concern for you. Makes sense.

    If you have to move under your own power, covering large amounts of distance in a given amount of time, inefficiency starts to matter. Slow rubber, heavy bike, carrying way too much shit on your bike for a given ride, etc. Do you want to do 20 miles in two hours, or 10?


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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    Complete and total indifference. Awesome.

    They literally get paid to go down fast, and are very fit so can climb through a lot. The very first rider said (paraphrasing here) 'we give up climbing for descending...'
    So it's not that they are indifferent to how the bike performs on the climbs (weight is just 1 factor in that) it's just way down the list of priorities for them.
    If that matches with your priorities, plan your build accordingly. Just be aware that riders of a similar skill/ fitness level are going to smoke you on a ride where they go all out both up and down with no lifts.

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  95. #95
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    All depends on who you are riding with and your relative fitness. If I am the fittest guy in the riding group I have no issues riding a heavy bike. But if I am one who is sucking wind then I want the lightest bike possible.

    My general rule of thumb is every pound of weight equals about a heart beat a minute. This doesn't sound like a lot but 10lbs is the difference between 160bpm and 170bpm. 160bpm is feel good hard, 170bpm is feel bad hard.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMN View Post
    All depends on who you are riding with and your relative fitness. If I am the fittest guy in the riding group I have no issues riding a heavy bike. But if I am one who is sucking wind then I want the lightest bike possible.

    My general rule of thumb is every pound of weight equals about a heart beat a minute. This doesn't sound like a lot but 10lbs is the difference between 160bpm and 170bpm. 160bpm is feel good hard, 170bpm is feel bad hard.
    That's odd. I get that higher heart rate effect, but believed it was from riding a cro-mo framed bike. I get that feel good hard feeling, digging deeper, while riding a cro-mo bike, while trying the same on a less expensive aluminum one (I find basic quality cro-mo is more expensive than even big name brand aluminum) will have me testing my willpower to keep up that intensity. Carbon is somewhere between, often more like aluminum, but it's easier than aluminum simply because of the motivation of easier handling with momentum/speed, compared to picking my way while going up slow.

    I figure it's because steel bikes wind up under pedaling and spring it back efficiently, while aluminum bikes seem to resist it. Feels like steel just keeps chugging along, no matter how inconsistent my power output is, while the aluminum seems to demand me to smooth it out by spinning circles in order to respond well to pedaling.

    I tend to stick to my comfort zone, so I end up pedaling in the saddle on an alloy bike most often. I'd love to build up my stamina specifically for being out-of-the-saddle, but I only seem comfortable doing this on certain bikes. Which ones allow thing tend to be a combination of well-balanced geo & well-balanced suspension, with good pedaling response. I've learned this all from years of switching between bikes, that the bikes that you have to adapt to the least, tend to be the one you are more likely to go all out on--it just feels kind of boring to be perfected like that though, and I don't know why. If I were to settle with one bike...

  97. #97
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    Gravel Bike Raleigh Roker Comp(full carbon) fully landen with tools/pump/water bottles is 20.5

    My SS Kona Honzo is 28.5

    My 160/140 Trance SX is 29.4lb

    What crazy is how much money id have to spend to get lighter bike that my Trance and my Trance is AL, Flow EX wheel, really nothing noteworthy light on it.

    My next bike is most likely a new Optic and I am not sure if it will be lighter than my Trance despite being carbon framed.

  98. #98
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    Frame material affects heartrate?
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    indirectly yes...

    If you want to go let say 9 mph up a climb and one bike weighs 32lb and the other weighs 28lb holding 9 mph on the 28lb bike will be less.....

    Or if you have the same heart rate the lighter bike will be going faster.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post
    indirectly yes...

    If you want to go let say 9 mph up a climb and one bike weighs 32lb and the other weighs 28lb holding 9 mph on the 28lb bike will be less.....

    Or if you have the same heart rate the lighter bike will be going faster.



    Right, but frame material doesn't necessarily affect weight. That's beside the point though, ninjichor didn't seem to be talking about weight.
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  101. #101
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    indirectly frame materail does.

    Carbon is stronger per gram than Al.

  102. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post
    indirectly frame materail does.

    Carbon is stronger per gram than Al.


    So a pound of feathers is lighter than a pound of rocks?

    My original comment on this had nothing to do with science or logic.
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    So then why post it?

    A lb of rocks can hold up a ton more than a lb of feathers...

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    Uncle, I give.
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  105. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post
    So then why post it?

    A lb of rocks can hold up a ton more than a lb of feathers...
    If you want to get scientific with it, no, that is not correct.

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    I'm pretty obsessive about my bike's performance. I make sure my parts are up to the task but I definitely search for light weight and am always toying with tires trying to find the ideal balance between RR and outright grip.
    Yesterday I attended the RPR Enduro with some friends. I didn't compete but did all the lines along with them in prep for my first Enduro race in another 2 weeks.
    As a 48 year old business owner however I'm not as obsessive about my own fitness. Besides some stretching in the evenings my only exercise is riding my bike about 2x/ week. I also have a very damaged knee and hamstring that doesn't have full output and never will.
    Yet somehow, on the transfer sections at the Enduro event I was comfortably able to go much faster for longer than the other riders with just a couple of exceptions. Like MUCH faster. At one point, I grinded out a long transfer with 3 E-bikes and only 1 was in front of me.
    I just can't help but feel that my obsession with dialing in my bike is in large part responsible for that. Glad my Enduro bike is light with low RR.

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  107. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    That's odd. I get that higher heart rate effect, but believed it was from riding a cro-mo framed bike. I get that feel good hard feeling, digging deeper, while riding a cro-mo bike, while trying the same on a less expensive aluminum one (I find basic quality cro-mo is more expensive than even big name brand aluminum) will have me testing my willpower to keep up that intensity. Carbon is somewhere between, often more like aluminum, but it's easier than aluminum simply because of the motivation of easier handling with momentum/speed, compared to picking my way while going up slow.
    On a modern FS I don't think there exist a rider who in a blind test could distinguish between frame materials. With modern soft tire pressures, pivot flex, wheel flex and suspension movement there is too much noice to notice the subtle characteristics of how a the frame material reacts to forces.
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    This guy gets it. If you just want the short version start at the 3 min mark, you can stop by 4:30. By then he's done making fun of people (and the bike industry) who lift a bike to determine if it's any good. "are you going to carry it?"

    https://www.vitalmtb.com/videos/memb.../iceman2058,94

    We would be friends in real life.

    He mentions it again towards the end of the video, but the whole thing is interesting and worth watching.
    Meh...he's just on the extreme end of the other side. In a sense, if you ride uphill at all, you ARE going to carry your bike. Light weight and good performance are not mutually exclusive. If you're an enduro racer, your results only count on the DH portions. So of course they're only concerned with performance and durability. But in the real world, where most of us ride, we try to find the right balance of weight and performance. Going UP fast is fun too for some of us.
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    My FS 140/130 bike weighed 33# before a set of Hunt Trail Wide's dropped it to 31.8. 2 lbs on a bike isn't much and I agree with that, but 2 lbs in your wheels is a pretty amazing difference. Factory wheels were ridiculous...

  110. #110
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    I have 2 Rocky Slayers. One set up park descending build15.5 kg (34lbs) 180mm, 165mm strong wheels, dh casing tyres. The other at 13.5 kg everyday ride build(29.7 lbs) (depending on pedals selected)165/170mm light wheels 2.35 exi minions some carbon bars and some ti bolts.

    For all but the chunkiest of steepest madness I much prefer the light slayer. Its playful, fun, climbs well accelerates well. Is faster on the down unless it gets offcamber steep and rooty/rocky. The overall experience is better.

    Heavy slayer by comparison is not fun on the up and you can definitely feel the slower acceleration on the flat and down. I can also feel the stiffer wheels are better in burns and when I'm tracking across/down some silly offcamber I revel in the super tack dh casing tyres ability to track across the roots. There's definately some sections I can clean on the heavy slayer that I can't on light slayer.

    My riding group forms a pretty good datum for what works better. Several buddies of mine are very similar speeds to me. I can tell by how easily I am beating them or how hard I am having to go to keep up which set up is working better on the day. We have some datum tracks that we ride regularly to. Light slayer takes the win in most instances.

  111. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by plummet View Post
    I have 2 Rocky Slayers. One set up park descending build15.5 kg (34lbs) 180mm, 165mm strong wheels, dh casing tyres. The other at 13.5 kg everyday ride build(29.7 lbs) (depending on pedals selected)165/170mm light wheels 2.35 exi minions some carbon bars and some ti bolts.

    For all but the chunkiest of steepest madness I much prefer the light slayer. Its playful, fun, climbs well accelerates well. Is faster on the down unless it gets offcamber steep and rooty/rocky. The overall experience is better.

    Heavy slayer by comparison is not fun on the up and you can definitely feel the slower acceleration on the flat and down. I can also feel the stiffer wheels are better in burns and when I'm tracking across/down some silly offcamber I revel in the super tack dh casing tyres ability to track across the roots. There's definately some sections I can clean on the heavy slayer that I can't on light slayer.

    My riding group forms a pretty good datum for what works better. Several buddies of mine are very similar speeds to me. I can tell by how easily I am beating them or how hard I am having to go to keep up which set up is working better on the day. We have some datum tracks that we ride regularly to. Light slayer takes the win in most instances.
    you could try to put the same tires on both bikes, I would think that that is where most of the difference comes from, not weight
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    Quote Originally Posted by nya View Post
    you could try to put the same tires on both bikes, I would think that that is where most of the difference comes from, not weight
    I did that as a first test. Had 3c exo 2.35 minions on both bikes. They were a lot closer in performance. Still there is more weight in the stronger wheels. So you can still feel the difference in acceleration.

  113. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMN View Post
    On a modern FS I don't think there exist a rider who in a blind test could distinguish between frame materials. With modern soft tire pressures, pivot flex, wheel flex and suspension movement there is too much noice to notice the subtle characteristics of how a the frame material reacts to forces.
    People notice with rims and handlebars. People notice small things like the difference between one 36 POE hub and another, or even the same hub serviced with different grease. Or if a tire is running 18 psi instead of 22 psi...

    There's people who even notice the difference between different steel tubesets, like one in 853 and another in Zona.

    My frame's especially noticeable probably since the seat tube's not connected to the BB; it's welded forward of it, so the BB has more twist to it. That wind-up smooths out my power delivery. It's not responsive, scooting in spurts, but instead goes up with consistent resistance making me need much less finesse in modulating my torque in case my bike starts to stall and risk rear tire slip.

    Demonstrated in this video: https://youtu.be/BH_AL4rxrp8?t=190

  114. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Right, but frame material doesn't necessarily affect weight. That's beside the point though, ninjichor didn't seem to be talking about weight.
    True. Currently looking at limestone as the ideal material for my next bike frame.

  115. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    True. Currently looking at limestone as the ideal material for my next bike frame.

    Great idea! If you only use 1/2 pound of the stuff it will be lighter than my carbon hardtail! Not sure about the ride quality though.

    I've weighed steel bikes that were lighter than my carbon one.
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  116. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post

    I've weighed steel bikes that were lighter than my carbon one.
    No, you didn't.

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    Weight is massively overblown.

    I'd only ride steel bikes if the good ones in some categories didn't cost a fortune.

    As it is now, I just *mostly* ride steel bikes.

    If you don't believe me, put a brick in your pack and go set some PRs on Strava and repeat.

  118. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    No, you didn't.


    Not sure if you're being silly or just want to argue about something.
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    My Scalpel was originally 23 with pedals. It bumped up to 24.3 when I added a 185 dropper, 29/39 wheels, and 2.4 XR2/2.6 XR4 tires.

    And I definitely care about weight. I demo bikes all the time. A lot of them (most of them) have better suspension, but even the ones nearing five figures still feel muted under acceleration. They're more entertaining when the downhills get steep and rough, though, so I'm resigned to the fact that my next ride (probably 130ish travel) will be at least a couple pounds heavier.

  120. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Not sure if you're being silly or just want to argue about something.
    He's 3/4 roadie, steel=lead in his mind. And he loves to argue.
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  121. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post

    I've weighed steel bikes that were lighter than my carbon one.
    I'll play, ever weighed a steel bike that's under 34lbs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    No, you didn't.


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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    I'll play, ever weighed a steel bike that's under 34lbs?
    Yup, I own 6 or 7. All size XL.

    Ever weighed a cheap aluminum bike that was over 34 lbs? There's lots of them.

    Here's some quick math for you. Carbon hardtail frame- 3-3.5lbs. Steel hardtail frame 5-6 lbs. Difference in frame weight ~2.5lbs.

    Total bike weight- 22-28lbs. Meaning the components account for 75-80% of the total bike weight.

    Where do you think the greater weight savings potential is?
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    I built a GT pantera last year which is a $1000ish 27.5+ hardtail stock. Weight was 34lbs out of the box. Frame was 5lbs on the dot - heavier than many steel frames. I replaced every part with stuff I had in my parts bin and a few new items - reba, xtr 10 spd, race face crank and bar, hope brakes and wheels, rock razor tires, Thomson post and stem. Nothing really considered "ultralight", but not cheap either of course. Final weight was 24.1lbs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smashysmashy View Post
    I built a GT pantera last year which is a $1000ish 27.5+ hardtail stock. Weight was 34lbs out of the box. Frame was 5lbs on the dot - heavier than many steel frames. I replaced every part with stuff I had in my parts bin and a few new items - reba, xtr 10 spd, race face crank and bar, hope brakes and wheels, rock razor tires, Thomson post and stem. Nothing really considered "ultralight", but not cheap either of course. Final weight was 24.1lbs.
    Lol, nice. Are you sure though that if you had a steel frame it wouldn't still weigh 34 lbs?
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    Yup, I own 6 or 7. All size XL.

    Ever weighed a cheap aluminum bike that was over 34 lbs? There's lots of them.

    Here's some quick math for you. Carbon hardtail frame- 3-3.5lbs. Steel hardtail frame 5-6 lbs. Difference in frame weight ~2.5lbs.

    Total bike weight- 22-28lbs. Meaning the components account for 75-80% of the total bike weight.

    Where do you think the greater weight savings potential is?
    Oh ok, my steel bike will be lighter because there's no way I'm going to put nice components on my carbon frame.

    How did I not see this before?

    I should pay more attention to your wisdom.

  126. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    Yup, I own 6 or 7. All size XL.

    Ever weighed a cheap aluminum bike that was over 34 lbs? There's lots of them.

    Here's some quick math for you. Carbon hardtail frame- 3-3.5lbs. Steel hardtail frame 5-6 lbs. Difference in frame weight ~2.5lbs.

    Total bike weight- 22-28lbs. Meaning the components account for 75-80% of the total bike weight.

    Where do you think the greater weight savings potential is?
    Thanks for the unneeded math. My carbon everything Rallon weighs 34lbs. I OWN a steel bike that weighs less than that. That was a lot of energy wasted on a pointless rant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    Thanks for the unneeded math. My carbon everything Rallon weighs 34lbs. I OWN a steel bike that weighs less than that. That was a lot of energy wasted on a pointless rant.
    Uh, you asked the question? The math is pretty simple, I didn't even need to use my slide rule.
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    Uh, you asked the question? The math is pretty simple, I didn't even need to use my slide rule.
    Well I didn't ask you the question so I'm not sure you get to be the judge of what's simple.

    To help you understand what is actually going on here. Someone said they have weighed carbon bikes that were heavier than steel ones. Someone else made the ludicrous "no you didn't" claim. Having an extremely heavy, in this case 34lbs., carbon bars, cranks, wheels and frame bike I decided to help highlight the ludicrousness of the claim, especially considering my own steel bike weighs less. I'm not sure why that set you off on a pointless rant but it's obvious you were a bit confused.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    Well I didn't ask you the question so I'm not sure you get to be the judge of what's simple.

    To help you understand what is actually going on here. Someone said they have weighed carbon bikes that were heavier than steel ones. Someone else made the ludicrous "no you didn't" claim. Having an extremely heavy, in this case 34lbs., carbon bars, cranks, wheels and frame bike I decided to help highlight the ludicrousness of the claim, especially considering my own steel bike weighs less. I'm not sure why that set you off on a pointless rant but it's obvious you were a bit confused.
    The way you wrote it is not how I read it at all. Still doesn't read the way you meant it, apparently.

    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    I'll play, ever weighed a steel bike that's under 34lbs?
    Sounds like you were challenging JB who said he's seen steel bikes that were lighter than carbon ones.

    Sorry about all your wasted energy explaining your own post. Perhaps you should go on a rant about it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    The way you wrote it is not how I read it at all. Still doesn't read the way you meant it, apparently.



    Sounds like you were challenging JB who said he's seen steel bikes that were lighter than carbon ones.

    Sorry about all your wasted energy explaining your own post. Perhaps you should go on a rant about it.
    Ask yourself why I would have picked such an extraordinarily high number if what you thought were my intentions were my intentions?

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  131. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    Ask yourself why I would have picked such an extraordinarily high number if what you thought were my intentions were my intentions?

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    I'll be honest, I have zero interest in continuing this conversation.

    Enjoy your heavy steel bike, and your heavy carbon one too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    I'll be honest, I have zero interest in continuing this conversation.
    Completely understandable...

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    Well I didn't ask you the question so I'm not sure you get to be the judge of what's simple.

    To help you understand what is actually going on here. Someone said they have weighed carbon bikes that were heavier than steel ones. Someone else made the ludicrous "no you didn't" claim. Having an extremely heavy, in this case 34lbs., carbon bars, cranks, wheels and frame bike I decided to help highlight the ludicrousness of the claim, especially considering my own steel bike weighs less. I'm not sure why that set you off on a pointless rant but it's obvious you were a bit confused.

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    You didn't, either. You use steel, you're doubling the mass of your frame for zero benefit. That's your choice, but let's not kid ourselves. Carbon is king.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    You didn't, either.
    I didn't what? I made no claim that your choice of words makes sense in response to.

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    You're fast, tucker.

  136. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    You didn't, either. You use steel, you're doubling the mass of your frame for zero benefit. That's your choice, but let's not kid ourselves. Carbon is king.


    I like carbon frames too but your claim "no you didn't" was kind of silly and definitely wrong. No big deal, just admit it and lets move on. #stopthebickering
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  137. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    You use steel, you're doubling the mass of your frame for zero benefit. That's your choice, but let's not kid ourselves. Carbon is king.
    Au contriaire mon ami. It's probably the ideal material for a DJ. Small diameter tubes, great impact resistance and just a tad easier to repair.



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  138. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    Carbon is king.
    Carbon sucks.
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  139. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    Well I didn't ask you the question so I'm not sure you get to be the judge of what's simple.

    To help you understand what is actually going on here. Someone said they have weighed carbon bikes that were heavier than steel ones. Someone else made the ludicrous "no you didn't" claim. Having an extremely heavy, in this case 34lbs., carbon bars, cranks, wheels and frame bike I decided to help highlight the ludicrousness of the claim, especially considering my own steel bike weighs less. I'm not sure why that set you off on a pointless rant but it's obvious you were a bit confused.

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    So you see this as being extremely heavy, instead of being an acceptable weight that it happened to end up at in order to not be too underbuilt?

  140. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    So you see this as being extremely heavy, instead of being an acceptable weight that it happened to end up at in order to not be too underbuilt?
    Relative to a sub 20lbs hard tail, yes. If I'd have been going for what he assumed I was 34lbs is at the extremely heavy end of the spectrum.

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  141. #141
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    I've ridden rental bikes that exceed 30 lbs. in weight which don't bother me at all. Part of the reason may be that I click off ~3,500 miles pedaling bikes each year...

    Something under 25 lbs. is typically what I aim for. If it is over that, no big deal. Here is what is in my stable at the moment:

    FS (Scott 930) 29er 24 lbs
    Gravel (Soma Wolverine rigid steel w/dyno front hub and other heavy stuff LOL) 30 lbs
    SS (Chris King Cielo w/rigid carbon fork) 29er 21 lbs
    SS (TwinSix Ti w/rigid carbon fork) 27.5 with beefy 2.8 and 2.6 tires 23 lbs

    A few of my spare/other wheel sets vary in weight by 1-2 lbs. I swap them in with some regularity on the bikes above. I do not notice much difference when I'm running a slightly heavier wheel set over 10+ (very technical) up to ~90 (trail and/or maybe hilly gravel) miles in a day.
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  142. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    I like carbon frames too but your claim "no you didn't" was kind of silly and definitely wrong. No big deal, just admit it and lets move on. #stopthebickering
    How much did this steel frame weigh compared to one made with the superior material?

  143. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93EXCivic View Post
    Carbon sucks.
    Yeah, my girlfriend sucks too, that's why I keep her around. The market is shifting to carbon faster than it's shifting from small wheels to big wheels.

  144. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    How much did this steel frame weigh compared to one made with the superior material?


    Is a 7.5 lb. Trek Session carbon frame lighter than a 4.8 lb Ritchey 853 hardtail? Is a burly carbon enduro bike lighter than a ww steel xc build with 400 gram tires?

    That's all I was trying to say, sorry for any confusion.
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  145. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    Yeah, my girlfriend sucks too, that's why I keep her around.
    Classy.
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  146. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    So you see this as being extremely heavy, instead of being an acceptable weight that it happened to end up at in order to not be too underbuilt?
    Again, everything depends on perspective.

    A guy racing pro Enduro will place different demands on a bike than the same guy puttering around on green and blue trails at half the speed.

    Also, another thing many people donít consider is that heavy =/= strong in many cases. It just means under engineered, often times.

    My Syntace parts are lighter than some and heavier than others, for example. But Iíd bet the farm on a Syntace stem outlasting many much heavier parts in any kind of test.


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  147. #147
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    My main ride, a 2015 SC 5010, weighted 29 lbs. without pedals when I picked it up from the dealer. I've not done anything to increase that except pedals, of course, so that's a good goal for me.

    Before that, my Giant Trance, which was built up from a frame, weighted 34 lbs. when I finished and I had no trouble with that either.

    I also ride a 26" steel hardtail that weighs 25 lbs and my new aluminum road bike weighs 16.6 lbs.

    Whatever bike I am riding, weight never seems to be an issue but for sake of argument, I think 32 lbs. is enough for something like the new SC Tallboy 4 which is what their aluminum R build is supposed to weigh.

  148. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    What weight is your bike, going with such an attitude?
    Have a 14 lb road bike (Fuji Team), weight includes old school pedals and saddle. Like it for the ride quality and geometry, and the climbing doesn't hurt. My trail bike is 33 lbs (Process 111) and never thought too much about the weight because it is so good. Have a beater hard tail (Dawes Deadeye) that weighs in at 40+ lbs, and oddly enough it gets most of the miles. Building a 22 lb xc (mostly carbon) bike now just for fun. So I think I've experienced the full spectrum. Truth is I'm way to heavy for weight to make any tangible difference, but arguably way too heavy to be riding some of these bikes.

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    My new Ripmo in size XL is 31.4lbs w/ platform pedals. GX build. Upgrades to Descendant carbon crank and Ibis carbon handlebar.

    I feel okay about it. The 2.5" Assegai Exo+ tires weigh 1150g each, don't roll too badly. But you do feel them climbing - climbing at a given speed demands more constant, flat out strength. The rotational mass needs to be spinning pretty fast before you can lighten up the power and maintain momentum by spinning the crank. Any decent incline and you don't get to that point.

    But goddamn are they gnarly stable grippy tires. Just finished a sopping wet and slimy PNWet ride and it may as well have been dry.

    So no free lunch I guess. On the way up I mentally buy lighter tires, down I'm vowing to never change them.

    But the single Exo Assegai ... Those might be the call ... I'd prefer more compliant sidewalls molding around isht a little better and wouldn't miss the extra weight ... Always something new to buy I guess ....

  150. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    Yeah, my girlfriend sucks too, that's why I keep her around. The market is shifting to carbon faster than it's shifting from small wheels to big wheels.
    I mean it environmentally unfriendly as it isn't really recyclable.

    I'll stick to my steal lumps thank you very much.

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  151. #151
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    So, if I was going to pick up a light hardtail frame in either Ti or Carbon, what might I expect it to weigh?

    I ask because my 2001 aluminum Homegrown frame weighs in at 2.6 lbs. I'm not sure I've seen a lighter frame in either of the more "modern" materials.
    "And crawling on the planet's face, some insects called, The Human Race..."

  152. #152
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    2.6lbs is heavy as hell. Whats it filled with, lead?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    So, if I was going to pick up a light hardtail frame in either Ti or Carbon, what might I expect it to weigh?

    I ask because my 2001 aluminum Homegrown frame weighs in at 2.6 lbs. I'm not sure I've seen a lighter frame in either of the more "modern" materials.
    I've seen Niner AIR 9 RDO XL frame weigh in at 2.8 lbs, and an Ibis DV9 pretty similar that was a L or XL. Most of my frames are more than twice that.

    Pretty sure nobody is currently building aluminum frames at that weight anymore. I feel like the scandium days are behind us. Though, there is at least one euro (I think) brand that is making frames of Magnesium now. No clue if that's a good idea or not, but it's interesting. Most aluminum frames that I'm aware of are pretty beefy lately it seems.

    Ti is not that light. You could build a Ti frame under 3 lbs but it would be like a noodle.
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  154. #154
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    I'm going to machine a frame from solid 7075 aluminium. Will it be under 34 lbs?

  155. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by smashysmashy View Post
    2.6lbs is heavy as hell. Whats it filled with, lead?
    Unobtanium.
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  156. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    Ti is not that light. You could build a Ti frame under 3 lbs but it would be like a noodle.
    Litespeed 6-4 frames were sub 3lbs and not noodles. they also cost $2354543656 of course.

    There's a handful of carbon xc race frames in the 1000 gram range.

    Most of those old sub 2.5lb easton aluminium frames had "race only, 160lb rider max, use for 1 season, you will die on this bike" stickers. There's a reason ebay is littered with 5lb GT frames from the 90's... they survived

  157. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by smashysmashy View Post
    Litespeed 6-4 frames were sub 3lbs and not noodles. they also cost $2354543656 of course.

    There's a handful of carbon xc race frames in the 1000 gram range.

    Most of those old sub 2.5lb easton aluminium frames had "race only, 160lb rider max, use for 1 season, you will die on this bike" stickers. There's a reason ebay is littered with 5lb GT frames from the 90's... they survived
    Whew! It pays to be 159 lbs, I guess.
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  158. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    So, if I was going to pick up a light hardtail frame in either Ti or Carbon, what might I expect it to weigh?

    I ask because my 2001 aluminum Homegrown frame weighs in at 2.6 lbs. I'm not sure I've seen a lighter frame in either of the more "modern" materials.
    Hard tail frame I'm building now is 980 grams. I'm 95,254 grams. Not sure how long it will last, but should at least be entertaining.

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