Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst 12345
Results 401 to 423 of 423
  1. #401
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    30,013
    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    The truth is that a defensive encounter is a low probability, high impact event. It's in the same class as a high speed car wreck, catastrophic home damage, or cancer diagnosis. For those we have seatbelts and airbags, homeowners insurance, and health insurance. I agree it's not good to be obsessed with self defense but carrying a pistol is not out of line with any of the other risk management strategies.
    Like fire extinguishers in your frame-bag.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  2. #402
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    1,203
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Like fire extinguishers in your frame-bag.
    I vote for the fire extinguisher.
    We're much more likely to encounter a fire than a bike jacker on the trail.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

  3. #403
    Self Appointed Judge&Jury
    Reputation: DIRTJUNKIE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Posts
    32,683
    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    I find it amusing how the story morphed from a crazy guy with a pistol to a general smear with the "2nd amendment type" comment.
    Itís becoming the norm.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  4. #404
    turtles make me hot
    Reputation: NYrr496's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    9,915
    Back a few posts, the phrase sketchy people with a gun rang a bell in my head.
    Years ago, I was at this crappy hospital in Brooklyn, NY doing preventive maintenance on the emergency generators. One of the guys who worked there, I think he was a painter, walked to a nearby park during his lunch break. He encountered a group of kids that I think were around thirteen or fourteen. They had a gun and kept daring one of the kids to shoot him in the ass. The kid did it.
    I remember thinking man, there is nothing scarier than someone with a gun who doesn't have the mindset to handle it responsibly.
    I like turtles

  5. #405
    Nat
    Nat is online now
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Nat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    13,023
    Quote Originally Posted by NYrr496 View Post
    there is nothing scarier than someone with a gun who doesn't have the mindset to handle it responsibly.
    I wonder if itís possible to find any gun owner who doesnít believe he has the mindset to handle his firearms? Can you imagine some guy saying, ďIím really not responsible enough to carry my gun?Ē

  6. #406
    turtles make me hot
    Reputation: NYrr496's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    9,915
    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    I wonder if itís possible to find any gun owner who doesnít believe he has the mindset to handle his firearms? Can you imagine some guy saying, ďIím really not responsible enough to carry my gun?Ē
    That's an excellent point. I can't imagine anyone saying that. I can say this, however...
    I know/knew a whole bunch of people who were business owners who all carried guns and you would have never known. No one ever pulled theirs out and waved it around. The few of us that were close would show each other a new gun or holster that made a better or safer carry. I even had a range in my shop. To this day I'm not sure if it was legal to do that or not but it was only for us inside a locked building on private property. No one ever knew it was there.
    I like turtles

  7. #407
    mtbr member
    Reputation: SingleSpeedSteven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    337
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Like fire extinguishers in your frame-bag.
    Better throw a welder in there too. Never know when your frame is going to break... You may run into a situation where your frame breaks right as some guy is trying to steal your bike. You'd have to shoot him, then weld your frame up real quick and get out of the woods. IT COULD HAPPEN.

  8. #408
    Barely in control
    Reputation: Schulze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    1,842
    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    I wonder if itís possible to find any gun owner who doesnít believe he has the mindset to handle his firearms? Can you imagine some guy saying, ďIím really not responsible enough to carry my gun?Ē
    Freedom is scary.

  9. #409
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    30,013
    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    I wonder if itís possible to find any gun owner who doesnít believe he has the mindset to handle his firearms? Can you imagine some guy saying, ďIím really not responsible enough to carry my gun?Ē
    Everyone thinks they are an excellent driver too.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  10. #410
    755872
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    I wonder if itís possible to find any gun owner who doesnít believe he has the mindset to handle his firearms? Can you imagine some guy saying, ďIím really not responsible enough to carry my gun?Ē
    I'll tack this on to Le Duke's comments. The most difficult students in CCW classes (back when I taught) were 1. Former or current military who weren't firearms instructors and 2. Old good-ole boys. The first because they "already know" what you're trying to teach them and the second because they're planning on pointing a gun at anything threatening. My rules were pretty simple and specific but at least once a class I'd have someone explain "the law" to me and about once every three classes I'd pull someone off the range for a safety violation. I did have several students complete the class but indicate they didn't feel they could carry and meet all the letter of the law requirements so they weren't getting their permit. I'd also usually have someone who I "disqualified from class" for some reason prior to the class who threatened to sue me. (i.e. you can't bring two .45s strapped to your ankles, you can't shoot a 10" barreled magnum from concealment, you can't openly state you won't follow the law once you have your permit...) The latter is really why I quit teaching the course, but if I could teach firearms safety from "never held a pistol" to "CCW" I'd probably go back and try again. It's too unpredictable to start every class with 10 strangers and hope they don't shoot you in the back by accident.

  11. #411
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    30,013
    Quote Originally Posted by NYrr496 View Post
    That's an excellent point. I can't imagine anyone saying that. I can say this, however...
    I know/knew a whole bunch of people who were business owners who all carried guns and you would have never known. No one ever pulled theirs out and waved it around. The few of us that were close would show each other a new gun or holster that made a better or safer carry. I even had a range in my shop. To this day I'm not sure if it was legal to do that or not but it was only for us inside a locked building on private property. No one ever knew it was there.
    If you think about it, our biggest problem is our total saturation with guns, if it was like regulating something where you had to prove your mental capacity to do it, we might have much less in circulation, but all of these guns used to do bad things are generally bought legally and either used illegally, stolen, given away, sold, etc. It's the legal "law abiding gun owners" who have introduced them into the system.

    That said, I have no problems with responsible people owning/carrying, I just think the requirements should be much higher. I can't go and rent an airplane and go kill a bunch of passengers with no certificates, I have to prove that I can fly to both the FAA and the rental place, pass checkrides, etc. When I have met the requirements, I can go fly a plane. This doesn't completely stop people from being killed, but it puts barriers in place that make it much harder to do so.

    The idea that "I need to carry a gun when I ride because I'd much rather have one..blah blah" is just ridiculous rationalization for your Diehard complex. There are so many more likely scenarios you would encounter that I'd expect you to be towing a Bob trailer full of "stuff" before a gun. I do recognize there are some sketchy places to ride where IF you ride, it wouldn't be a bad idea to be or have a responsible gun owner with you. That gets into the whole risk vs. reward thing though. At some point the "I'm not going to be scared of riding here" gives way to the "It's just not a good idea to push my luck" mindset.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  12. #412
    Barely in control
    Reputation: Schulze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    1,842
    The bad guys aren't going to follow any restrictions, so why are you trying to make it hard on the good guys? Education would be a better strategy.

  13. #413
    Self Appointed Judge&Jury
    Reputation: DIRTJUNKIE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Posts
    32,683
    Because all first world problems get solved and fixed on mtbr.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  14. #414
    Barely in control
    Reputation: Schulze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    1,842
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post

    That said, I have no problems with responsible people owning/carrying, I just think the requirements should be much higher. I can't go and rent an airplane and go kill a bunch of passengers with no certificates, I have to prove that I can fly to both the FAA and the rental place, pass checkrides, etc.
    Actually anyone can buy a plane, rent a spot at a small airfield, and fly it away. You seem to think that papers and documents are some sort of deterrent to someone intent on murder. Mohamed Lahouaiej-Bouhlel didn't need a driver's license to kill or injure 300 people with a truck, either.

    Here are some facts:

    Everyone who is not in prison can buy or create technology that can kill others.

    Yes, even felons. I know you know this.

    There is nothing you, any government, or any org can do about it except in very small, specific areas such as a courthouse.

  15. #415
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Cuyuna's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    1,028
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    That said, I have no problems with responsible people owning/carrying, I just think the requirements should be much higher. I can't go and rent an airplane and go kill a bunch of passengers with no certificates, I have to prove that I can fly to both the FAA and the rental place, pass checkrides, etc. When I have met the requirements, I can go fly a plane. This doesn't completely stop people from being killed, but it puts barriers in place that make it much harder to do so.
    The difference is, you don't have a constitutional right to fly an airplane.

  16. #416
    Nat
    Nat is online now
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Nat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    13,023
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Everyone thinks they are an excellent driver too.
    Yeah, totally. I had actually typed out something about how all car guys think they're incredible drivers but then deleted it from my post.

  17. #417
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Curveball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    2,573
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Everyone thinks they are an excellent driver too.
    I actually think I'm a pretty mediocre driver. Although my record indicates that I'm excellent.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  18. #418
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Curveball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    2,573
    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    I wonder if itís possible to find any gun owner who doesnít believe he has the mindset to handle his firearms? Can you imagine some guy saying, ďIím really not responsible enough to carry my gun?Ē
    I'm really not motivated enough to carry the extra weight of my gun.


    My guns are fairly useless because I often forget that I even have them since I don't have the time to hunt birds anymore.


    And yes, they are locked away.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  19. #419
    Nat
    Nat is online now
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Nat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    13,023
    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    I'm really not motivated enough to carry the extra weight of my gun.


    My guns are fairly useless because I often forget that I even have them since I don't have the time to hunt birds anymore.


    And yes, they are locked away.
    Same here (except for the hunting part -- I've only gone hunting once. Didn't care for it). I haven't even felt like shooting in years.

    Schulze, I'm wondering where you ride that you feel the need to wear your sidearm? Do you carry on every ride?

  20. #420
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    30,013
    Quote Originally Posted by Cuyuna View Post
    The difference is, you don't have a constitutional right to fly an airplane.
    Well regulated, I seem to remember thatís in the constitution too...
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  21. #421
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Cuyuna's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    1,028
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Well regulated, I seem to remember thatís in the constitution too...
    The operative phrase is "the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed". The intent of the amendment as it was written by Madison is described by him in the Federalist Papers. The Supreme Court appears to be generally inclined to respect Madison's intent.

  22. #422
    Formerly of Kent
    Reputation: Le Duke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    9,912

    Bike hijackers on trails

    Quote Originally Posted by Forster View Post
    I'll tack this on to Le Duke's comments. The most difficult students in CCW classes (back when I taught) were 1. Former or current military who weren't firearms instructors and 2. Old good-ole boys. The first because they "already know" what you're trying to teach them and the second because they're planning on pointing a gun at anything threatening. My rules were pretty simple and specific but at least once a class I'd have someone explain "the law" to me and about once every three classes I'd pull someone off the range for a safety violation. I did have several students complete the class but indicate they didn't feel they could carry and meet all the letter of the law requirements so they weren't getting their permit. I'd also usually have someone who I "disqualified from class" for some reason prior to the class who threatened to sue me. (i.e. you can't bring two .45s strapped to your ankles, you can't shoot a 10" barreled magnum from concealment, you can't openly state you won't follow the law once you have your permit...) The latter is really why I quit teaching the course, but if I could teach firearms safety from "never held a pistol" to "CCW" I'd probably go back and try again. It's too unpredictable to start every class with 10 strangers and hope they don't shoot you in the back by accident.
    One of my former NCOs, before he became a platoon sergeant in a line company, was the lead sniper for our battalion. We had another SFC who was Presidentís 100, Army Marksmanship Unit instructor, etc. Heís a 1SG somewhere else now.

    Both preferred to work with people who had no real experience with firearms prior to entering the military. People who were ďfreshĒ and had no bad habits or preconceived notions about shooting. And smart people. Itís a lot easier to teach a smart kid ballistics than a dumb one.

    I think I fired less than 1000rds, total, during my time in the military. Of course, my job was to design, resource and facilitate training, not necessarily to do it. Iíd zero my weapon, qual, and then Iíd be done for the year. Maybe a stress shoot range, and I always test fired 249s and 240s with my SLs and PSG before letting soldiers on the range. I may be an ďExpertĒ shooter, but I am hardly an expert, and have a healthy respect for firearms.

    Iíve seen some wild shit during and after ranges. Saw a kid shooting a good 30 degrees off target during a live fire. Luckily it was 30 degrees off target in the direction away from the maneuvering element. Multiple negligent discharges inside buildings in sister companies.Machine gun fire (7.62 and .50) from another range flying directly over me and 100+ other people in our adjacent range. Range control made everyone (dozens of ranges) go black, but they kept firing until we got someone over there; a battalion was shooting with no one minding the range tower radio. Nuts. I always had at least three other people with me up there. Many officers and NCOs relieved.

    I guess what Iím trying to say is that, even with (ostensibly) well trained people, I plan for the worst and hope for the best.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Death from Below.

  23. #423
    Į\_(ツ)_/Į SuperModerator
    Reputation: Klurejr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    6,218
    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    There is nothing you, any government, or any org can do about it except in very small, specific areas such as a courthouse.
    well, Australia did something about it, and it seems to be working:
    https://nbcnews.com/health/health-ne...s-show-n855946

    However that would never happen in the US.

    Anyway, this thread has gone off-topic now and will probably end up like the other gun threads, so lets just close it here. The OP never came back and I am beginning to think they were trolling everyone.
    Ride Bikes, Drink Craft Beer, Repeat.

    Know these before you post:
    MTBR Posting Guidelines
    e-bike sub-forum rules

Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst 12345

Similar Threads

  1. Southeast FL natural trails, but not mountain bike trails
    By shappy in forum Southeast/Midsouth - GA, TN, AL, FL, MS, LA, AR
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 02-26-2015, 12:02 PM
  2. Replies: 16
    Last Post: 07-13-2014, 08:25 AM
  3. Replies: 10
    Last Post: 02-21-2014, 11:53 PM
  4. Wildcat trails? (Not "those" types of trails)
    By Backcountry Medic in forum Oregon
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-11-2011, 11:18 AM
  5. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 03-31-2011, 12:45 PM

Members who have read this thread: 783

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2018 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.