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  1. #1
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    best way to prevent ticks?

    I just moved to Pennsylvania from Wyoming. We didn't have ticks out there. From what I understand illnesses from ticks are quite bad in this part of the northeast particularly lyme disease. I found a tick on me today after my ride. Seeing how I don't want to totally cover myself up when its hot out. I'm looking for a way to repel ticks when I'm riding. All i have been able to find is soaking my clothes in chemicals. I am a little afraid to try this because I am afraid I'm going to have a reaction to it. But if its the only way I might have to.

  2. #2
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    Whatever solution you may find, always check yourself whenever you've been out in the wild.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Train Wreck View Post
    Whatever solution you may find, always check yourself whenever you've been out in the wild.
    And always check your girlfriend for ticks too.

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    I don't know if it works as well as claimed but I'm fixin' to try Cedarcide. My riding buddy says it works. It's also supposed to work for chiggers as well. I sure hope so! I can't stand them.
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    Hands down best option is to treat your clothing with permethrin.

    If you buy the pre-diluted stuff, you're pretty unlikely to have any sort of reaction. Not impossible, though.

    I diluted a concentrated permethrin to soak a bunch of clothes last year for work, and that tingled until I washed them a couple times. Probably should have diluted it more.

    Get into the habit of checking yourself after spending time in the woods, too. I've caught many ticks this way. A few times, I've even FELT larger ticks like dog ticks and lone star ticks bite me while I was on my way home.

    Also be aware, that most people who get lyme disease and other tick-borne diseases aren't getting it from ticks they get while out hiking or mountain biking. Nope. They pick those ticks up while doing yard work. For your yard, use "tick tubes". You can buy them as-is. But they're just permethrin-treated cotton balls shoved into tp tubes. Put them out in your garden, and the local field mice will take the cotton balls for nest material. Now, you're killing the ticks that feed on the mice. Since the mice are a reservoir for lyme disease, you break the life cycle of the disease and there are fewer ticks in your yard as well as fewer disease-transmitting ticks in your yard.

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    Load of info on the NorCal board, here's a few threads to start with: https://www.google.com/search?q=mtbr...+ticks&ie=&oe=

    And more: https://www.google.com/search?q=mtbr...+ticks&ie=&oe=
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  7. #7
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    Permethrin's the shit. Just be super careful applying it when pets are present, especially cats.
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    Quote Originally Posted by the one ring View Post
    Permethrin's the shit. Just be super careful applying it when pets are present, especially cats.
    Or if you have fish tanks, especially saltwater or reef tanks. It is incredibly toxic to aquatic life.
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  11. #11
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    Thereís really only one surefire way... horse semen.. gallons and gallons of horse semen. Cover every inch of expose skin and reapply liberally as needed.
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    Spray yourself/clothing with vinegar. Ticks hate it. You will smell like s_it but beats getting ticks on ya'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shartist View Post
    Thereís really only one surefire way... horse semen.. gallons and gallons of horse semen. Cover every inch of expose skin and reapply liberally as needed.
    Yikes. No thanks.....

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    As Harold stated, permethrin treated clothing. 3 oz of 38% to a gallon of water (a little higher than the pre-mix) and spray on your riding clothes and gear every month, pending on how much ya ride and wash clothes. They say its good for 6-8 machine washings. I ride 3x a week or more and treat 4 sets of riding clothes once a month. I spray my shoes and camelback also (no not the hose or bite valve)

    Avoid (if possible) tall grassy fields and hike-a-bike thru the woods. Ticks DO NOT jump like fleas you need to brush up against the stuff they're hanging out on. Always check yourself after a ride and then check again. Nothing you put on your body will work if you sweat, in 20 minutes it will be useless. DEET does nothing against ticks regardless of what the can says.

    Take this with a grain of salt, this is what works for me and some others in SWPa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stixxs View Post
    Spray yourself/clothing with vinegar. Ticks hate it. You will smell like s_it but beats getting ticks on ya'.
    Care to share any peer-reviewed scientific evidence that this does anything OTHER than make you smell like ass? You know, because when major diseases are a concern, I'm not going to rely on hippie voodoo. I'm going to use what actually works.

    Google Scholar turns up 6800 scientific papers about the effectiveness of permethrin-impregnated clothing against ticks.

    https://scholar.google.com/scholar?h...in+ticks&btnG=

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    I wonder if vinegar will help wash off the horse semen.
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    As others have recommended, Permethrin is the stuff. I used that and DEET on bare skin, though it's not very effective against ticks. I've gone on hikes in winter when it was barely above freezing and found ticks on myself and the dog. Some hikes in spring I'd pick a dozen or more off the dog, stopping every 15 minutes to pick more off. It was ludicrous at times. I've found ticks on myself or the dog after going for a walk in a suburban residential neighborhood.

    Even with using Permethrin and DEET, I still would strip down and do a full body inspection after a hike or ride.

    With a mosquitoes, I found permethrin to be effective on clothing with DEET on bare skin.
    Do the math.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    Care to share any peer-reviewed scientific evidence that this does anything OTHER than make you smell like ass? You know, because when major diseases are a concern, I'm not going to rely on hippie voodoo. I'm going to use what actually works.

    Google Scholar turns up 6800 scientific papers about the effectiveness of permethrin-impregnated clothing against ticks.

    https://scholar.google.com/scholar?h...in+ticks&btnG=
    Let the record show that Harold did not dispute the validity of the horse semen method which is as good as a tacit endorsement.

    Quote Originally Posted by the one ring View Post
    I wonder if vinegar will help wash off the horse semen.
    That seems counterproductive. I can only imagine the looks youíd get at a post-ride watering hole if using both of these methods. ďBro, you smell like sweat, c*$, and boardwalk fries, Iím going not going to judge you, but Iím gonna to have to ask you to sit outside...Ē
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shartist View Post
    Let the record show that Harold did not dispute the validity of the horse semen method which is as good as a tacit endorsement
    how can I argue with the horse semen method?

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    I say, put bacon on your legs! I hear that works pretty well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by the one ring View Post
    Permethrin's the shit. Just be super careful applying it when pets are present, especially cats.
    Long term effects? Who knows. I treated my clothes before going to OK and AK in tick season. Didn't get any ticks on me. Also used a bit of deet. I f-ing hate ticks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcd46 View Post
    I say, put bacon on your legs! I hear that works pretty well.
    The theory here of course is that dogs will chase you and the ticks will jump on the dogs.
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  24. #24
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    Where I live the woods around my house are full of ticks and chiggers. I treat my clothes really well with sawyers permethrin spray and it works really well, even after a few washes. Spray it on everything you're going to wear into the woods, even your shoes, the night before you head into the woods and let it dry out over night. Spray it onto your clothes good enough so that they feel damp to the touch. I wasn't a believer at first, but it does work really well. I've never had a reaction to it if the clothes were dry from application when I put them on. It even keeps ticks off of me when crawling though the woods/tall grass and sitting in the leaves while I was turkey hunting. I won't go in the woods without applying it to my clothes during warmer weather.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Train Wreck View Post
    Whatever solution you may find, always check yourself whenever you've been out in the wild.
    Came to say this. Prevention is great, but for ticks/lyme I'd never assume it's working... Nothing is for certain and the consequences are severe.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    Care to share any peer-reviewed scientific evidence that this does anything OTHER than make you smell like ass? You know, because when major diseases are a concern, I'm not going to rely on hippie voodoo. I'm going to use what actually works.

    Google Scholar turns up 6800 scientific papers about the effectiveness of permethrin-impregnated clothing against ticks.

    https://scholar.google.com/scholar?h...in+ticks&btnG=
    Rely on whatever you want.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by toadmeister View Post
    And always check your girlfriend for ticks too.
    That's sound advice, right there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Long term effects? Who knows. I treated my clothes before going to OK and AK in tick season. Didn't get any ticks on me. Also used a bit of deet. I f-ing hate ticks.
    If it's dry, the leaching to a person is little to none from what I've read of Permethrin. Deet has clear neurological effects if you use too much over a long period of time, which can be permanent. Permethrin is a really safe long term alternative IMO. It might cause cancer in 30 years but at least it doesn't cause brain damage next month...
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    Quote Originally Posted by jestep View Post
    If it's dry, the leaching to a person is little to none from what I've read of Permethrin. Deet has clear neurological effects if you use too much over a long period of time, which can be permanent. Permethrin is a really safe long term alternative IMO. It might cause cancer in 30 years but at least it doesn't cause brain damage next month...
    not to mention, the effects of some of the tick-borne diseases out there aren't exactly pleasant. I'd rather take the effects of most repellents.

    More or less, wherever you find ticks, there's going to be at least one possible tick-borne disease.

    Here's a handy map showing the distribution of a few notable tick-borne diseases from 2015.



    There are a number of them that aren't included. For example, the newly emerging/discovered diseases that aren't well classified yet, for one, which includes the meat allergy people can develop after being bitten by the Lone Star tick.

  30. #30
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    Previous dog tested positive for Lyme but evidently wasn't an issue for him. Dog before that died from kidney failure brought on by Ehrlichiosis.
    Do the math.

  31. #31
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    Alright, so as much as I like to make light of all of this, Iíve lived in Eastern Pa all of my life. I grew up in a rural area and spent most of my time as a kid exploring/building forts/playing/hiking/camping/dirt biking/fishing/shooting etc in the woods, fields, and orchards of the area. Through my teens and college not much changed other than adding backcountry backpacking and crawling around in those fields paintballing.

    Iím a pragmatist by nature and a scientist by profession working in the chemical industry, but in all that time, Iíve never dowsed myself in bug sprays or chemicals. Iíve found dog ticks and even deer ticks in places you canít even imagine. Put quite simply, the key is finding them. After all, youíve got between 36 hours and 48 hours before any disease is transmitted, and just because the critter had it doesnít necessarily mean youíll get it. In the case of Lymeís disease there are antibiotics if you spot the bullseye and get the right antibiotics soon enough (doxycycline IIRC). Personally, Iíve never let one of the little bastards stay attached that long. When you shower, use your finger tips to scrub your hair and scrub in all directions being sure to massage the entire surface area of you scalp. If you feel a little bump or what feels like a little scab, check it out when you get out and be good with a set of tweezers. When you scrub the rest of your body be similarly sensitive as youíre scrubbing away.

    If you have a dog, keep him ďadvantixedĒ and be wary about inviting he/she into your bed after a long day roaming around on the trails or in the woodsó or at the very least keep an eye out for ticks in your bed. Similarly, keep an eye out in your car the week following a particularly ďbackcountryĒ outing if itís a bad tick year. Thatís probably the biggest factoróif itís a bad tick year or not. Some years youíll barely see any, other years youíll be picking them off yourself and your pets by the half dozen per hike. Practice good hygiene and honestly, you donít have much to worry about. Even on backcountry backpacking trips where it may be a few days between showers Iíd kind of run my hands over my body/scalp with a little bit of water to monitor. YMMV, but I wouldnít be insanely concerned.
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shartist View Post
    Alright, so as much as I like to make light of all of this, Iíve lived in Eastern Pa all of my life. I grew up in a rural area and spent most of my time as a kid exploring/building forts/playing/hiking/camping/dirt biking/fishing/shooting etc in the woods, fields, and orchards of the area. Through my teens and college not much changed other than adding backcountry backpacking and crawling around in those fields paintballing.

    Iím a pragmatist by nature and a scientist by profession working in the chemical industry, but in all that time, Iíve never dowsed myself in bug sprays or chemicals. Iíve found dog ticks and even deer ticks in places you canít even imagine. Put quite simply, the key is finding them. After all, youíve got between 36 hours and 48 hours before any disease is transmitted, and just because the critter had it doesnít necessarily mean youíll get it. In the case of Lymeís disease there are antibiotics if you spot the bullseye and get the right antibiotics soon enough (doxycycline IIRC). Personally, Iíve never let one of the little bastards stay attached that long. When you shower, use your finger tips to scrub your hair and scrub in all directions being sure to massage the entire surface area of you scalp. If you feel a little bump or what feels like a little scab, check it out when you get out and be good with a set of tweezers. When you scrub the rest of your body be similarly sensitive as youíre scrubbing away.

    If you have a dog, keep him ďadvantixedĒ and be wary about inviting he/she into your bed after a long day roaming around on the trails or in the woodsó or at the very least keep an eye out for ticks in your bed. Similarly, keep an eye out in your car the week following a particularly ďbackcountryĒ outing if itís a bad tick year. Thatís probably the biggest factoróif itís a bad tick year or not. Some years youíll barely see any, other years youíll be picking them off yourself and your pets by the half dozen per hike. Practice good hygiene and honestly, you donít have much to worry about. Even on backcountry backpacking trips where it may be a few days between showers Iíd kind of run my hands over my body/scalp with a little bit of water to monitor. YMMV, but I wouldnít be insanely concerned.
    Yup, no sense in taking preventive measures.


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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbmb65 View Post
    Yup, no sense in taking preventive measures.


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    Read carefully, young grasshoppa. I never said donít take any preventative measures. I simply offered my first hand experience over years being outside in the region of which the OP inquired about. Even if using preventative measures, the advice I offered is valid as none of them are 100% effective and may lull you into thinking you donít need to give yourself a solid once over at the end of the day. A number of posters offered preventative measures already, myself included in an earlier post

    The fact is, sometimes we arenít wearing the ideal colored clothes or itís just not comfortable to wear long pants or we donít want to avoid an awesome stretch of singletrack with long grass tight on either side. I wanted to offer some perspective as reading this thread might be enough might create a disproportionate amount reticence in some people reading it to go out and just enjoy the outdoors if they arenít wearing the right colored shirt with the right spray and only if said areas have been manicured to remove undergrowth. Does tickborne illness exist? yes. Are the effects potentially serious? Yes. Should it prevent someone reading this from going out and enjoying the outdoors if they are out of spray? No!

    Just look at the info that comes up in a google search. Some articles advise wearing dark colors as ticks are not as attracted to them. While others advise wearing light colored clothing because it makes an early instars easier to spot given their small size. Combined with reading potential effects of tickborne illness and browsing distribution maps gives the impression we shouldnít venture into the woods without head to toe bug netting and a permethrin mister strapped on and running.

    What Iím ultimately trying to say is the risk is out there, but thereís risk in everything we do, especially mountain biking. Preventative measures arenít 100%, coating yourself in horse semen will earn you weird looks, but checking yourself closely after a ride, being mindful of where ticks may have fallen off you or your pets (car, or anywhere else you or Rex the dog sits post ride) prior to checking yourself are your strongest means of reducing the most undesirable outcome- infection with tickborne illness.

    Mbmb, what advice do you have to offer, or did you just pop in to jump to a few conclusions based on an unthorough skim of the information I took the time to provide?
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shartist View Post
    Read carefully, young grasshoppa. I never said donít take any preventative measures. I simply offered my first hand experience over years being outside in the region of which the OP inquired about. Even if using preventative measures, the advice I offered is valid as none of them are 100% effective and may lull you into thinking you donít need to give yourself a solid once over at the end of the day. A number of posters offered preventative measures already, myself included in an earlier post

    The fact is, sometimes we arenít wearing the ideal colored clothes or itís just not comfortable to wear long pants or we donít want to avoid an awesome stretch of singletrack with long grass tight on either side. I wanted to offer some perspective as reading this thread might be enough might create a disproportionate amount reticence in some people reading it to go out and just enjoy the outdoors if they arenít wearing the right colored shirt with the right spray and only if said areas have been manicured to remove undergrowth. Does tickborne illness exist? yes. Are the effects potentially serious? Yes. Should it prevent someone reading this from going out and enjoying the outdoors if they are out of spray? No!

    Just look at the info that comes up in a google search. Some articles advise wearing dark colors as ticks are not as attracted to them. While others advise wearing light colored clothing because it makes an early instars easier to spot given their small size. Combined with reading potential effects of tickborne illness and browsing distribution maps gives the impression we shouldnít venture into the woods without head to toe bug netting and a permethrin mister strapped on and running.

    What Iím ultimately trying to say is the risk is out there, but thereís risk in everything we do, especially mountain biking. Preventative measures arenít 100%, coating yourself in horse semen will earn you weird looks, but checking yourself closely after a ride, being mindful of where ticks may have fallen off you or your pets (car, or anywhere else you or Rex the dog sits post ride) prior to checking yourself are your strongest means of reducing the most undesirable outcome- infection with tickborne illness.

    Mbmb, what advice do you have to offer, or did you just pop in to jump to a few conclusions based on an unthorough skim of the information I took the time to provide?
    As has been said many times already, permethrin. And I use deet on exposed skin. What you said was, youíve never lathered up with chemicals, which is forgoing preventative measures. I think diligence is the key. Preventative measures, and physical checks for ticks. In other words, do everything you can do to prevent disease.


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  36. #36
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    I saw it with my own two eyes: a tick jumped 8 inches or so from a manzanita branch onto my wife's pure white blouse (like a man's white dress shirt). I just happened to be walking close behind her on a sunny day, and while I couldn't see the little devil on the branch, I absolutely spotted it the instant it showed up on her. She did not brush against the branch, not even close.

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    Quote Originally Posted by venturi95 View Post
    I saw it with my own two eyes: a tick jumped 8 inches or so from a manzanita branch onto my wife's pure white blouse (like a man's white dress shirt). I just happened to be walking close behind her on a sunny day, and while I couldn't see the little devil on the branch, I absolutely spotted it the instant it showed up on her. She did not brush against the branch, not even close.
    show me the anatomical structures and biological features of a tick that allow it to actually jump. Jumping is not the same as falling from a branch or leaf onto a person.

    let me give you a hint. you did not see what you think you saw.

  38. #38
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    Now we have Drop Ticks?

    We're doomed!
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    One thing to note is that ticks don't move much unless they hitch a ride on someone. One time I saw a tick on my front tire between the knobbies seconds after taking my bike off the rack. A lot of ticks can be found at the trail head because when folks are out in the woods and then get back to the car they'll typically check/remove any ticks from themselves and also their dogs. That's why anytime I encounter a tick its burned to death with a lighter (the only time I feel good about killing something). Its always good to have a lighter handy.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornfield View Post
    Now we have Drop Ticks?

    We're doomed!
    Mexican jumping ticks.


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  41. #41
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    Peppermint oil and water mix. Seems to work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcs View Post
    Peppermint oil and water mix. Seems to work.
    Also good to have a peppermint plant around the house, to prevent ticks and mice in your home.

  43. #43
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    I've heard of tick removal tools, but not this one: https://www.amazon.com/ZenPet-Tick-T.../dp/B010NU1V1I

    Similar: https://www.ticktwister.com/info.html

    We don't take our dogs where ticks are common, but I should get one for my rides & hikes where they are.
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    Quote Originally Posted by the one ring View Post
    I've heard of tick removal tools, but not this one: https://www.amazon.com/ZenPet-Tick-T.../dp/B010NU1V1I

    Similar: https://www.ticktwister.com/info.html

    We don't take our dogs where ticks are common, but I should get one for my rides & hikes where they are.
    I have one of these in my first aid kit.

    https://tickkey.com/

  45. #45
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    I'll take my chances with rattlesnakes and scorpions thank you....

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    That's sound advice, right there.
    Dude, have you seen his girlfriend?

    Eugh. *shudder*
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  47. #47
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    Somewhat OT, but it's rodents that are the principle reservoir of the Lyme organism. Here's a scheme one biologist has to genetically engineer mice to be resistant and so break the chain. I make no comment or assertion as to the viability of this idea.

    https://www.media.mit.edu/articles/m...-on-nantucket/
    Do the math.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    I have one of these in my first aid kit.

    https://tickkey.com/
    Yeah, that's another one I was thinking of, couldn't remember the name.
    "It's such a fine line between stupid and, uh Ö yeah, and clever."
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    OK, I may have been wrong about the whole jumping thing. But I know what I saw that day, perhaps the white clothing attracted the tick from higher up, but I know it did not slowly crawl from where ever to the middle of her back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    Somewhat OT, but it's rodents that are the principle reservoir of the Lyme organism. Here's a scheme one biologist has to genetically engineer mice to be resistant and so break the chain. I make no comment or assertion as to the viability of this idea.

    https://www.media.mit.edu/articles/m...-on-nantucket/
    It's an interesting concept, but the concept of "flooding the area" with these modified mice simply in hopes that they pass their immunity genes to the next generation is a bit of a long shot.

    Success kinda depends on a couple of things.

    First off, is the immunity gene that gets developed recessive or dominant? That'll have a major impact on how quickly it moves through the population. Second, it's reasonable to assume that the gene will confer some improvements in fitness to the mice simply because they don't have to deal with tick parasite loads. But I think that's a dangerous thing to assume. Will that increased fitness all of a sudden mean that the white-footed mouse population explodes? Release something like that on an uninhabited island and they WILL get off of it eventually. Or will these new genes have a secondary effect that reduces overall fitness of the organism, preventing the immunity from taking hold in the population?

    I think responsible experimentation should involve more lab experimentation before moving on to testing on the uninhabited island. And should mean a good bit more than 7yrs before releasing on Nantucket.

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    Quote Originally Posted by venturi95 View Post
    OK, I may have been wrong about the whole jumping thing. But I know what I saw that day, perhaps the white clothing attracted the tick from higher up, but I know it did not slowly crawl from where ever to the middle of her back.
    The most parsimonious explanation is that the tick did, in fact, crawl from some other location on her body and you just didn't notice it until you did.

    Just because I didn't notice a tick until it bit me on the inside of my elbow doesn't mean it didn't crawl there from somewhere else. That's exactly what ticks do. When they grab on, they start searching for exactly that sort of warm, secluded spot where skin is thinner and blood vessels are closer to the surface. If they grab onto clothes first, they might have to crawl around for quite some time before they find any exposed skin at all.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    ... I make no comment or assertion as to the viability of this idea...
    I knew I could reliably leave that up to Harold.

    Hey, maybe we could get that MIT guy to genetically engineer jumping ticks!
    Do the math.

  53. #53
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    Ticks crawl up brush and weeds to the very top, then they sit there and dangle their hook-arms to latch onto whatever happens to come by. That's how they get "up", besides crawling.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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    For a fun activity, flip them over onto their back on your index finger. Then press on their corpse with your thumbnail. They will reach their arms out to maximum extension. In the right rythm you can make them do the macarena.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbmb65 View Post
    Mexican jumping ticks.
    Maybe they are just nervous...
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    Here on the Central Coast of CA, Lyme isn't as big a problem as the east but Ticks are everywhere in the wild. I just finished about a 2.5 year process of building a new trail in our local State Park and in doing that experienced about every phase and season of ticks from when we first started busting unexplored territory, then flagging corridor in heavy brush, and then all the steps that ultimately lead to a finished trail that traversed heavy brush areas as well as meadow grasslands. The grasslands are by far the most prevalent for tick for the most part but the absolute heaviest location was along a fireroad that has a gate. There is a little path intentionally created that alows horses, hikers, and bikers to go around the gate to use the road. We had an entourage of State Park officials amongst many of us from our advocacy group that met at that spot one morning and the guy that got out of the truck to unlock that gate right where the little go around is came walking back towards us and in the matter of seconds, had picked up at least 20 ticks on his pants! Myself and the State Park's Biologist started scanning the grasses along the trailside at this choke point and what appeared to be seed pods at the tip of every single stem from the grass like you would see on barley or wheat actually turned out to be ticks stacked up on one another waiting for a passer-by. It as quite amazing to see. The cool thing was if you held the tip of your finger close to the top tick, it would extend it's appendages frantically reaching for you. When it would go, the next would step up into that spot and do the same. It was quite an orderly operation. So, of all the places we encountered during the build, aside from one grassy meadow that was frequented by deer on the game trails we could see burned into the earth, those man-made choke points had evolved into the best location for ticks to congregate to continue their lifecycle.

    I also ended up doing a permethrin test during this entire process. Most of the group working on this project initially hadn't used the Sawyer product I had recommended. They were ALL constantly picking off active ticks as we'd move through the project. We were doing regular tick checks on one another as we'd pass through grass and brush. I started letting the few I would pick up just crawl while the others that would have tons more on their pants would be picking them off. Pretty quickly, the ticks on me would stop moving. If they stuck, it was because they were stuck in the fiber of the clothing but they would appear dead. Most would just fall off. Obviously, not the case for those that were untreated. The bonus I read was if the tick comes in contact with permethrin treated clothing, they're going to croak soon. That's a good thing.

    All my trailwork clothing is treated, including my knee high compression socks I usually wear when I'm wearing my Danner 8" work boots just in case a tick finds its way under my pant cuff. For riding, I spray my knee pads and my elbow pads, camelbak, usually my shorts, and the sleeves of my jerseys since I usually wear long sleeves even in summer. It's working. The only ONE I have ever been bit by got me this year during the build by getting under my Garmin watch when I was wearing gloves and long sleeves. He embedded fast but I got him out entirely with tick pliers and put him in a tiny plastic zip bag just in case the bite site showed indications of infection later on. Considering how many I have intentionally been through, I'd say the Sawyer or any Permethrin product used on your clothing is likely the most effective and easiest way to go short of staying home.

  57. #57
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    ^^^ I can say that in 6 years of frequent riding/hiking/hunting excursions in western NoCal I found one tick on me. In the Northeast, I could pull off a couple of dozen or more on a 4 mile hike...easy.
    Do the math.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    what appeared to be seed pods at the tip of every single stem from the grass like you would see on barley or wheat actually turned out to be ticks stacked up on one another waiting for a passer-by.
    This.
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  59. #59
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    Kinda reminds me of the time I showed a picture I took of of a tiny poppy seed sized tick next to a dime to a co-worker and he said, "That's nothing, I've seen them way bigger than that."
    Do the math.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by lone rager View Post
    kinda reminds me of the time i showed a picture i took of of a tiny poppy seed sized tick next to a dime to a co-worker and he said, "that's nothing, i've seen them way bigger than that."
    SWOOSH!

    Right over their head

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by pulser View Post
    I just moved to Pennsylvania from Wyoming. We didn't have ticks out there. From what I understand illnesses from ticks are quite bad in this part of the northeast particularly lyme disease. I found a tick on me today after my ride. Seeing how I don't want to totally cover myself up when its hot out. I'm looking for a way to repel ticks when I'm riding. All i have been able to find is soaking my clothes in chemicals. I am a little afraid to try this because I am afraid I'm going to have a reaction to it. But if its the only way I might have to.
    Huh? Granted Wyoming doesnít have near the tick problem than the north east does but, huh?

    Thereís still a problem in Wyoming.

    https://www.wyomingpublicmedia.org/p...-risk#stream/0

    best way to prevent ticks?-d314dba6-c223-4b1f-99fb-7aa13beddd29.jpg
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    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  62. #62
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    All this tick talk make me itch...

    Anyone use Sawer's Permethrin repellent?
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  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by fredcook View Post
    All this tick talk make me itch...

    Anyone use Sawer's Permethrin repellent?
    See above. Mentioned a few times.

  64. #64
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    is it a good idea to put the permetherin on tents as well? Will it ruin tent material? We are camping in Michigan this summer and I want to be prepared for sure
    Go practice. Figure it out. - Fleas

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    Quote Originally Posted by sXeXBMXer View Post
    is it a good idea to put the permetherin on tents as well? Will it ruin tent material? We are camping in Michigan this summer and I want to be prepared for sure
    It won't ruin the tent fabric like deet might. I have never treated my shelter, but I suppose it wouldn't hurt.

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  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    It won't ruin the tent fabric like deet might. I have never treated my shelter, but I suppose it wouldn't hurt.

    Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk
    cool. I thought I had heard that DEET will eat away the nylon. I figured they probably hang around the shelters just seeking heat if nothing else...and figured that if I was going to be spraying every thing else and letting it dry, should probably hit the tent as well
    Go practice. Figure it out. - Fleas

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  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by sXeXBMXer View Post
    cool. I thought I had heard that DEET will eat away the nylon. I figured they probably hang around the shelters just seeking heat if nothing else...and figured that if I was going to be spraying every thing else and letting it dry, should probably hit the tent as well
    I haven't had issues with ticks on my shelter (ever), but treating it with permethrin will probably help with the mossies.

    Deet and synthetic fabrics don't play nice together. Different plastics react a little differently to it, but none are inert.

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  68. #68
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    It's listed use is for tents and gear. The photo on their advertising shows it being used on a tent. I've sprayed many different fabrics with the Sawyer brand and have yet to see any issues whatsoever with fabric or colorfastness.

    Question for Harold or whomever has bought bulk permethrin. Ya'll mention utilizing a specific concentration mixed with water for soaking. Where did you source this?

    And DEET is caustic shit! I've seen ruin a number of things painted or coated as well as disfiguring synthetic fabrics. Commonly seen destroying expensive water-dip coatings on shotguns used for waterfowling where mosquitoes are prevalent as is the use of such firearms.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    It's listed use is for tents and gear. The photo on their advertising shows it being used on a tent. I've sprayed many different fabrics with the Sawyer brand and have yet to see any issues whatsoever with fabric or colorfastness.

    Question for Harold or whomever has bought bulk permethrin. Ya'll mention utilizing a specific concentration mixed with water for soaking. Where did you source this?
    I will have to search for the info again. If I was smart, I bookmarked the source.

    IIRC, it is simply doing dilutions. Take the concentration of the bulk stuff for livestock at the feed store and reduce it to the concentration of the stuff you buy for your gear from sawyer and other companies.

    Which, I'm pretty sure, farmers have to do for the livestock stuff, anyway. Otherwise, they'd be wasting money on the concentrate.

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  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    It's listed use is for tents and gear. The photo on their advertising shows it being used on a tent. I've sprayed many different fabrics with the Sawyer brand and have yet to see any issues whatsoever with fabric or colorfastness.
    good to know!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Question for Harold or whomever has bought bulk permethrin. Ya'll mention utilizing a specific concentration mixed with water for soaking. Where did you source this?

    And DEET is caustic shit! I've seen ruin a number of things painted or coated as well as disfiguring synthetic fabrics. Commonly seen destroying expensive water-dip coatings on shotguns used for waterfowling where mosquitoes are prevalent as is the use of such firearms.
    honestly, I have never used DEET on my body b/c I burns my skin. I put it on clothes sometimes, but generally stay away from it. Usually regular repellent is good enough for me (must be my natural stink that helps...)...I try to avoid repellent altogether b/c I hate the gross, sticky feeling I have with it on. Same with sunscreen.
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  71. #71
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    Bug spray on my legs with Deet. This brand called Benís they sell at Cabelas is amazing.


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  72. #72
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    Shave your arms and legs, and give the tick nothing to hold on to. Ditch the moto-inspired clown suit.

    Lived in GA, upstate NY and VA for 8 years. Thousands of miles pedaled and hiked, many weeks of my life spent living outside, no application of bug repellant, and zero ticks. Coworkers, neighbors and their dogs regularly got plenty of them (I'd regularly pull half a dozen off their dogs), so they were around en masse.
    Death from Below.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Ticks crawl up brush and weeds to the very top, then they sit there and dangle their hook-arms to latch onto whatever happens to come by. That's how they get "up", besides crawling.
    100% correct, thank you. They DO NOT jump, hop or fly.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    See above. Mentioned a few times.
    I know permethrin itself was mentioned in the thread, but was interested specifically in the Sawyer's (I spelled it wrong in my post) brand version of it (didn't see it mentioned).

    Sawyers indicates it can be used directly on dogs. From the Sawyer site: "Sawyer Permethrin can be applied to dogs and help control mosquitoes, and fleas for 35 days and against ticks for 6 weeks."

    Other brands I've come across don't mention use on dogs. I also saw a version from Nix that says it can be used directly on humans as a "medication" for lice. Don't need that, but other brands say not to apply directly on humans.

    In any case, I was curious about Sawyers specifically since it sounds like different brands formulate/dilute permethrin differently.

    The MSDS is interesting... "Permethrin may induce neurotoxic symptoms including diarrhea, salivation, tremors, convulsions, hyperactivity and hypersensitivity to touch or sound.". It does also state "No evidence of carcinogenicity in long term animal studies."

    Anyone use it (Sawyers) on their dogs?
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  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    It's listed use is for tents and gear. The photo on their advertising shows it being used on a tent. I've sprayed many different fabrics with the Sawyer brand and have yet to see any issues whatsoever with fabric or colorfastness.
    +1 on this, but be aware that permethrin bonds better to some fabrics (nylon) than others (polyester, fleece).

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  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    It's listed use is for tents and gear. The photo on their advertising shows it being used on a tent. I've sprayed many different fabrics with the Sawyer brand and have yet to see any issues whatsoever with fabric or colorfastness.

    Question for Harold or whomever has bought bulk permethrin. Ya'll mention utilizing a specific concentration mixed with water for soaking. Where did you source this?

    And DEET is caustic shit! I've seen ruin a number of things painted or coated as well as disfiguring synthetic fabrics. Commonly seen destroying expensive water-dip coatings on shotguns used for waterfowling where mosquitoes are prevalent as is the use of such firearms.
    Here's the link I used as a resource when setting up my dilution. I'd probably dilute it a bit more than this, honestly.

    https://sectionhiker.com/permethrin-soak-method-guide/

    Quote Originally Posted by fredcook View Post
    I know permethrin itself was mentioned in the thread, but was interested specifically in the Sawyer's (I spelled it wrong in my post) brand version of it (didn't see it mentioned).

    Sawyers indicates it can be used directly on dogs. From the Sawyer site: "Sawyer Permethrin can be applied to dogs and help control mosquitoes, and fleas for 35 days and against ticks for 6 weeks."

    Other brands I've come across don't mention use on dogs. I also saw a version from Nix that says it can be used directly on humans as a "medication" for lice. Don't need that, but other brands say not to apply directly on humans.

    In any case, I was curious about Sawyers specifically since it sounds like different brands formulate/dilute permethrin differently.

    The MSDS is interesting... "Permethrin may induce neurotoxic symptoms including diarrhea, salivation, tremors, convulsions, hyperactivity and hypersensitivity to touch or sound.". It does also state "No evidence of carcinogenicity in long term animal studies."

    Anyone use it (Sawyers) on their dogs?
    You can, and Sawyer's isn't wrong.

    https://www.vetinfo.com/permethrin-for-dogs.html
    https://www.petplace.com/article/dog...icity-in-dogs/
    Permethrin General Fact Sheet

    There are better products for dogs, in all honesty. I'm married to a veterinarian, and we use whatever she recommends these days. I can't remember her current favorite.

    further, we have two cats. when I mess with permethrin, it has to be outside. Anything I treat stays outside until it's dry.

    That's the key with permethrin, and the SDS for it doesn't address that fact. When it's dry, toxicity is low, even for cats, because it is not easy for it to get into the body. just don't let cats lick clothing or gear that's been treated with it. my cats will lick my dog incessantly, so he definitely doesn't get any topicals that will be a problem for them.

    When it's wet, though, THAT is when it can be easily absorbed by the body and cause toxic exposure problems.

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    From what I have heard the main two go-to brands are the Sawyer's and Ben's. Aside from that all the other reviews I have come across have been less stellar. That's not to say that they wont work well.

    I do happen to have a co-worker that was diagnosed with tick induced Lyme about 5yrs ago and have gone through all of the treatments, co-infections, etc. with her over the years. To say this is nasty ISHT is the understatement of the century. Your best bet is prevention if you even have the slightest chance of going into tick infest country. Too grave a risk to not take the small bit of time to help prevent.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    From what I have heard the main two go-to brands are the Sawyer's and Ben's. Aside from that all the other reviews I have come across have been less stellar. That's not to say that they wont work well.
    permethrin is permethrin. not sure what "brand" has to do with it.

    it's like saying clorox bleach is better bleach than store brand. it's the same sodium hypochlorite. so long as the concentration is the same, it's an equivalent product.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    permethrin is permethrin. not sure what "brand" has to do with it.

    it's like saying clorox bleach is better bleach than store brand. it's the same sodium hypochlorite. so long as the concentration is the same, it's an equivalent product.
    And really that is the main thing, maybe the reviews I read were that way because those two brands had a better/higher concentration in the bottles, mind you I am talking about the spray bottles (manual not aerosol) that you can purchase. Other thing I like is that Ben's, I believe, makes WIPES that you can throw in your pack.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    And really that is the main thing, maybe the reviews I read were that way because those two brands had a better/higher concentration in the bottles, mind you I am talking about the spray bottles (manual not aerosol) that you can purchase. Other thing I like is that Ben's, I believe, makes WIPES that you can throw in your pack.
    you won't find permethrin in wipes. it'll be either deet or picaridin or one of the natural/herbal repellents like citronella or oil of lemon eucalyptus.

    frankly, the reason you see negative reviews on a certain permethrin product has nothing to do with the brand producing the permethrin. for one thing, permethrin doesn't exactly come in a huge variety of concentrations, either. You have the bulk products at about 10% meant to be diluted (mostly for livestock use) and then you have the consumer level sprays that are at 0.5% (I looked at Repel, Sawyer, and Coleman brands online, all were the same).

    a HUGE number of negative online reviews are entirely due to the fact that people had unrealistic expectations about a product. many of those can be attributed to people not understanding how a product works or what it's actually supposed to do. people expecting a highly effective repellent from a permethrin product will be disappointed. It's a contact insecticide that happens to have some repellent properties. But it's not primarily a repellent, and companies that market it as such are contributing to that confusion.

    repellents like DEET and Picaridin and whatnot are totally different animals and DO come in a wider range of concentrations and formulas. With regards to DEET, at least, higher concentrations only mean the product lasts longer before needing to be reapplied (since the whole mode of action of a repellent relies on the product evaporating off of the surface on which it was applied).

    https://www.cdc.gov/malaria/toolkit/DEET.pdf

    When it comes to DEET-based repellents, I like the 3M Ultrathon lotion. Takes a lower concentration 30% DEET product and gives it a longer time release, which means you need to apply less DEET.

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    This thread reminded me to go hug my fire ants. Ok I didn't hug them, but I smiled in their direction.

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    Around here on Long Island New York Deet attracts ticks. Permethrin treated clothes are best and if you dare panty hose from the womens dept keeps even the smallest nymph ticks from getting through and biting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dropout33 View Post
    Around here on Long Island New York Deet attracts ticks.
    Source?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Source?
    doesn't have one, I'd wager.

    however, if you want a fun insect attractant scenario - I used to like oil of lemon eucalyptus-based repellents for mosquitoes...until I moved to the south. oil of lemon eucalyptus happens to attract love bugs during their mating irruptions. it must mimic their pheromones or something. still worked fine for mosquitoes, but the side-effects make it difficult to function.

  85. #85
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    Dear Abby,

    Last night, like most nights, I was checking my girlfriend for ticks. Suddenly I realized something that has upset me and I haven't told anyone about yet. She was covered in horse semen. Should I be worried or am I overreacting?

    Signed,
    Shy Guy in Duluth

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott O View Post
    Dear Penthouse,
    fify
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    When it's dry, toxicity is low, even for cats, because it is not easy for it to get into the body.

    When it's wet, though, THAT is when it can be easily absorbed by the body and cause toxic exposure problems.
    I guess interesting question is if drying up changes chemical structure of Permethrin (or anything at all).

    Because when you put on your dry treated gear and then sweat like hell on some nasty climb on a hot day, everything will be wet.

    Any thoughts?

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by borisotto View Post
    I guess interesting question is if drying up changes chemical structure of Permethrin (or anything at all).

    Because when you put on your dry treated gear and then sweat like hell on some nasty climb on a hot day, everything will be wet.

    Any thoughts?
    according to info in this link (sources cited), permethrin bonds to the substrate it's applied to (not always to the same degree).

    It does photodegrade eventually, and it does wear off/wash off over time. The reason toxicity to cats is much lower after it dries is because so little will come off after it bonds to the fabric.

    Quote Originally Posted by the one ring View Post
    +1 on this, but be aware that permethrin bonds better to some fabrics (nylon) than others (polyester, fleece).

    https://backpackinglight.com/forums/...nd-other-gear/

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    Quote Originally Posted by pulser View Post
    I just moved to Pennsylvania from Wyoming. We didn't have ticks out there.
    Tell that the f--- tons of them I pulled off myself after hanging out around Mammoth Hotsprings.

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by dir-T View Post
    Tell that the f--- tons of them I pulled off myself after hanging out around Mammoth Hotsprings.
    Ok In the 15 years i lived in Fort Collins and Cheyenne i never got a tick on me and I don't know any one that has. I mostly road trails on the front range and up around Winter Park.

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    Thanks guys I got some Permethrin in a 10% solution from Tractor Supply. I just have to figure out the right mixture to soak my riding gear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dir-T View Post
    Tell that the f--- tons of them I pulled off myself after hanging out around Mammoth Hotsprings.
    He said ticks, not crabs. This thread is about ticks.



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  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by pulser View Post
    Thanks guys I got some Permethrin in a 10% solution from Tractor Supply. I just have to figure out the right mixture to soak my riding gear.
    The Sawyer spray, as is most other "ready to use" products are .5% and work quite well if that helps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Source?
    My experience is the source and also most of the other riders here. We all stay away from Deet products.

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    Deet works on mosquitoes, but it melts my socks.

    The Sawyer Spray works on keeping the ticks from biting, but typically the ticks here in central Georgia just walk around until they find the first spot you didn't spray. During high season, through July when the spiders take over, I just Sawyer up and stop and check my legs once or twice a ride.
    How can anyone who's been riding as long as I have, be so slow???

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    Sorry if I missed it, but is anyone using this in somehting like Sawyer Pacardin on their skin in conjunction with spraying clothes with permethrin?
    https://sawyer.com/products/picaridin-insect-repellent/

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    Dang it all... I (used to) never think that much about bugs on me. Now, thanks to this thread, I swear I had stuff crawling all over me in a ride yesterday. Thanks!
    You didn't quit riding because you're old, you're old because you quit riding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott O View Post
    Sorry if I missed it, but is anyone using this in somehting like Sawyer Pacardin on their skin in conjunction with spraying clothes with permethrin?
    https://sawyer.com/products/picaridin-insect-repellent/
    I've been using picaridin since shortly after it became available in the us years ago.

    It smells marginally better than deet. Doesn't melt plastics.

    But honestly I can't tell if it's any good about repelling ticks. Seems to repel mosquitoes just as well, assuming you reapply it frequently enough. I have yet to encounter a formula that lasts as long as the 12hr 3M Ultrathon lotion (with deet in it). What it DOES do better than deet, however, is to repel deer flies. I have even sprayed it on my dog's ears to keep the deer flies from biting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    according to info in this link (sources cited), permethrin bonds to the substrate it's applied to (not always to the same degree).
    Thanks! I've got bitten by small tick last year (found and removed it within couple of hours) so was looking for safe preventive measures...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott O View Post
    Sorry if I missed it, but is anyone using this in somehting like Sawyer Pacardin on their skin in conjunction with spraying clothes with permethrin?
    https://sawyer.com/products/picaridin-insect-repellent/
    Been using picardin with deet for deep woods trail work, and between the two it does a good job of keeping most bugs away. I have yet to get a tick with it on either, and I'm central WI. Could be that I haven't run into any ticks, or maybe they work.

    I will say the picardin seems to sweat off faster than deet, but I think it feels marginally less greasy. I have some of the wipes and lotion, but haven't tried them yet

    Good discussion in this thread, I'm now much more paranoid thanks to you all!

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