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  1. #1
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    Being honest about your needs/Being happy with what you have

    I was in a fairly local bike shop yesterday and I was waiting on a guy who was trying to decide between one bike and another. He obviously had enough cash for it not to be a concern, but had no idea what he was getting.

    He asked what alloy was, and whether the carbon version was faster than it... The guy who runs the store was sheepishly agreeing that carbon was indeed faster than the alloy version, but snuck an embarrassed side eye at me as he said that. I agreed whole-heartedly, and the customer immediately dropped over 6k on his carbon FS thing, all blinged up...

    This got me thinking...

    I don't care that someone chooses to drop his cash on an expensive bike, that's his prerogative, but he is just the tip of an iceberg of people that are equipped way beyond their capabilities. I would hazard an educated guess, an opinion formed by seeing many people out on the trail, that most of us are incapable of using all our bikes' possibilities. Many fall into the 'bling trap' and don't have a clue what they have between their legs, and, as the actress said to the Bishop, they wouldn't know what to do with it if they did...

    Personally I am lucky enough to have 2 bikes, both with 5.5" travel front and back, altho one has a Lefty, and the other a Fox. Both were bought as great deals: the one of them I bought piecemeal online and put together gradually, saving a good 2.5k over full price overall; the second was a shop demo bike that had never seen dirt that I got at about half the ticket price. I have had them for nearly 3 years each and they do all I could want. When they break, I replace parts I get deals on online... I am very happy with them both, and if one is temporarily off the road, I have the backup. I like to ride them both equally, and they are all I need for the riding I like to do.

    I suggest we all look at exactly what kind of riding we do, be honest about it, and make a comprehensive list of what we don't really need...

    Then send it all to me
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  2. #2
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    Good post.

    My guess is that 6K Carbon bike is going to get used a dozen times then sit in the garage for a few years before being sold to someone else. I say this because you mentioned the customer "had no idea what he was getting" meaning he was probably a novice and was giving the sport a try. Over the years I have seen this pattern: novice buys high end bike, rides it a few times then sells it in a few years. Not always, of course, but 80%-90% of the time.

    Me? I agree. Been riding for over 20yrs. Got a FS bike five years ago and this year I question the need for rear suspension-for Me. I just enjoy my steel HT more than the FS bike. I do admit the FS is a bit more capable, but for the type of riding I do, rear suspension is not what I need-or want.

  3. #3
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    I agree and no, I'm not sending you anything..........

  4. #4
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    Being honest about your needs/Being happy with what you have

    I've got one 425 dollar Giant Revel and it whoops the crap outta me on the trail still. Happy to have what I have and some spare time to use it.

  5. #5
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    Dude, you are going to cause the collapse of the upgrades market with all this crazy talk.

  6. #6
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    Being honest about your needs/Being happy with what you have

    Well I do need some new pedals. Maybe that will make me faster.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by bfletch1310 View Post
    Well I do need some new pedals. Maybe that will make me faster.
    Flats or clipless?
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  8. #8
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    Being honest about your needs/Being happy with what you have

    Sticking with the flats. I'm a cheap a** and don't want to buy new shoes. LOL

  9. #9
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    most of the time its not what I need, its what i want...
    pretty much the same with everything else, why some people drive brand new BMW, and civic is almost always reliable..
    why OP has 2 bikes? do you need 2 bikes? oh no, you want to have 2...and me too! but I only have 1 for now.
    I guess it is all good after all.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    I would hazard an educated guess, an opinion formed by seeing many people out on the trail, that most of us are incapable of using all our bikes' possibilities. Many fall into the 'bling trap' and don't have a clue what they have between their legs, and, as the actress said to the Bishop, they wouldn't know what to do with it if they did...
    To put it bluntly, unless you're a pro or you have a starring role in a bike video such as New World Disorder, it's pretty safe to say that you're not using your bike to its full potential. I once traded bikes with Ryan Leech, he did things with my bike that I didn't think were possible and I couldn't even imagine. I kinda stood there with my mouth open going "WTF?? How is that possible?!" Then there was the time I got schooled by Chrissy Redden, it was embarrassing.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post

    I suggest we all look at exactly what kind of riding we do, be honest about it, and make a comprehensive list of what we don't really need...

    Then send it all to me
    What we don't need is people passing judgement Sometime it's fun and make life easy to descend with more bike than we have, and sometime is even more fun to ride technical stuffs with less bike we are on. That's what make it fun. Though I do own exactly the bikes for each type of riding I do. At times, I just like to ride my SS HT the same line as my 6.5" FS trail bike.

    I'm sure the person knew that the bike could easily out perform the rider when he bought the bike too. There are many reasons why people buy their equipments. If they are in another sport or hobby at enthusiast level they would certainly appreciate better equipments. There's no rule saying that a noob has to start with cheap entry level bike and upgrade. If noobs can afford better bikes, I'm happy for them and for me. They are spending to boost economy, what's not to like.

    I would not care if he knows what to do with what he got between his legs as long as he's trying I'm sure you have good intention, but your post came across as Sour grapes.

  12. #12
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    I think this is true for life. I have a Trek 3500 disc it is probably for a better skill level then I perform at. I'm in decent shape but I don't have the endurance for xc really. I get winded easy. What I love about riding for me is being at a good pace (fast enough) and good turns. Maybe I'm not meant for xc at all. Maybe I'm a downhill guy, but no matter what, I had to start somewhere. I usally read about stuff a ton before getting into it, try to understand it more before jumping in, I spent about 4 months online reading and watching before even getting a mtb (besides a target bike.) I do the same with electronics and cars and most things that I will buy that interest me. The problem is when I make a quick decision like buying 2 Blackberry tours from craigslist, they sit on my shelf as we speech because I did not do my research. I think that if you are going to spend the money, you should understand what you are really spending it on. I know the difference between Aluminum allow frame and a carbon frame but it still does not mean I will get a carbon one.

    Here is what I do:
    -Understand the purpose
    -Understand the product
    -Understand the price points
    -Understand where I apply to the price points
    -Make a decision

    example:
    I want to start biking so I learn the basics of bikes, the parts and different types of biking. Now I will look at specific models of bikes from different companies and how they apply. Then I decide what type of style I will ride. Then I will look at prices for the models of the style I like. Then decide where MY skill level applies to the products. If I learn quick and will dedicate myself to this then I will maybe spend more for a high level bike. If I'm unsure then I should go with a entry level or mid range bike. Then buy it.

    This process can be applied for any consumer good really.

    But yet I still will buy more then I need. I already plan to get a Raidon Fork. But I have my reasons for getting that since I'm a light person and that fork I have now is not great. I only really want to buy things that I can justify getting.
    Like the Evoc FR Trail Pack, I'm not a enduro rider but I looks like a great bag and It would support my back well. Or a new derailleur, mine has not been shifting very smooth. Or gloves because I recently crashed and scrapped my hands up bad.

    Now I have a good process of buying a product but I still wonder if any of the justifications for wanting one of the above products is just an excuse to buy something new. But luckly I dont make much money so all those wants stay wants (other then the fork which I do plan to get in sept.)

    Sorry if I blow anyones mind or If my post was just winded itself.

  13. #13
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    We could apply this theory to everything in life . I get what your saying OP but i buy things that i am not capable of using it to its full capacity . Moral of the story is , why hate ? My last bike i built up ran me around 7-8k , but i could of easily bought a 2k bike and done the same type of riding or trails . Why did i spend that money ? Cuz i can and wanted too , i buy what i like and want . I work hard for my money so we all spend it the way we want .

    Point is , who cares lol .

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    "My bike is too awesome"....said no one ever.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by aedubber View Post
    We could apply this theory to everything in life . I get what your saying OP but i buy things that i am not capable of using it to its full capacity . Moral of the story is , why hate ? My last bike i built up ran me around 7-8k , but i could of easily bought a 2k bike and done the same type of riding or trails . Why did i spend that money ? Cuz i can and wanted too , i buy what i like and want . I work hard for my money so we all spend it the way we want .

    Point is , who cares lol .
    Like I said, it is not for me to judge anyone for how they want to spend their money, and there is no hate in what I posted, so please do not accuse me of that! I am just pointing out that it seems a little silly to me to see people out on bikes that are so out of place where they are: like riding a Ducati Desmosedici down to get the groceries... I do like what Mimi said about 'as long as he's trying', and I heartily agree with that, but all too often, this is not the case. Still, I suppose it fills the classified ad sections with good deals on used bikes...
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    Like I said, it is not for me to judge anyone for how they want to spend their money, and there is no hate in what I posted, so please do not accuse me of that! I am just pointing out that it seems a little silly to me to see people out on bikes that are so out of place where they are: like riding a Ducati Desmosedici down to get the groceries... I do like what Mimi said about 'as long as he's trying', and I heartily agree with that, but all too often, this is not the case. Still, I suppose it fills the classified ad sections with good deals on used bikes...
    EXACTLY , then we can get a sick deal on a bike lol so just let it be ... Well thats like saying its useless taking a 1500hp car to buy groceries .You can easily ride around a way over powered drag car daily if you wanted to . Why do people drive ferraris or lambos daily or out on the streets ?

    You are judging tho , read your words . Who are you to say whats out of place and whats right or wrong on what to ride where and how . Why does it bother you enough to care or make a thread about it ? Maybe cuz he has the 6k bike that YOU dont have or cant afford ? But hey your not judging right ? lol . Rather then thinking hey your not good enough for that bike or hey you dont need that bike , i would of told the guy thats one BADAAASSSS bike man and enjoy that shit !

    I can say about 95% of the people on these forums probably dont ride their bikes to what its capable of unless your a pro or sponsored rider .

  17. #17
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    what really irks me is when some kid half my age on a bike costing a fraction of mine, rips by and makes me look bad. I mean really, if my bike cost more that his car.....shouldn't I be faster?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ElwoodT View Post
    what really irks me is when some kid half my age on a bike costing a fraction of mine, rips by and makes me look bad. I mean really, if my bike cost more that his car.....shouldn't I be faster?
    Now that's funny right there. 20 yrs ago that kid was me. Now I'm the old fart with the brand new bike that hasn't ridden in 10 yrs loafing in the granny gear

  19. #19
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    I NEED air, water, food, a roof over my head and monkey sex. EVERYTHING else is a WANT.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by aedubber View Post
    EXACTLY , then we can get a sick deal on a bike lol so just let it be ... Well thats like saying its useless taking a 1500hp car to buy groceries .You can easily ride around a way over powered drag car daily if you wanted to . Why do people drive ferraris or lambos daily or out on the streets ?

    You are judging tho , read your words . Who are you to say whats out of place and whats right or wrong on what to ride where and how . Why does it bother you enough to care or make a thread about it ? Maybe cuz he has the 6k bike that YOU dont have or cant afford ? But hey your not judging right ? lol . Rather then thinking hey your not good enough for that bike or hey you dont need that bike , i would of told the guy thats one BADAAASSSS bike man and enjoy that shit !

    I can say about 95% of the people on these forums probably dont ride their bikes to what its capable of unless your a pro or sponsored rider .

    Hmmm, a little guilt perhaps?!? My post was intended to provoke thought, not as a damning judgement! I also do not see a personal need to buy a 7k bike myself, even tho I could afford one. I would rather spend money on other things than throw surplus cash down the rocky trails.

    I do actually think people who drive Ferraris and Lamborghinis out on the streets are a little silly, they are a complete waste of money to my mind unless you are going to use them as the tool for which they are intended, not as a way of showing off your wealth. Around here it is mostly old guys driving brand new Corvettes slowly... If that is judgmental, I make no apology, I think it's a bit sad.
    I also think your assessment on the percentage of riders who don't use their bikes to full potential is way off... I believe any serious recreational rider, not necessarily a competitive rider as you mention, will use their bike's capabilities fully. What I was saying is that there are a lot of people who do not...
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  21. #21
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    Being honest about your needs/Being happy with what you have

    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    Hmmm, a little guilt perhaps?!? My post was intended to provoke thought, not as a damning judgement! I also do not see a personal need to buy a 7k bike myself, even tho I could afford one. I would rather spend money on other things than throw surplus cash down the rocky trails.

    I do actually think people who drive Ferraris and Lamborghinis out on the streets are a little silly, they are a complete waste of money to my mind unless you are going to use them as the tool for which they are intended, not as a way of showing off your wealth. Around here it is mostly old guys driving brand new Corvettes slowly... If that is judgmental, I make no apology, I think it's a bit sad.
    I also think your assessment on the percentage of riders who don't use their bikes to full potential is way off... I believe any serious recreational rider, not necessarily a competitive rider as you mention, will use their bike's capabilities fully. What I was saying is that there are a lot of people who do not...
    To its fully? I doubt that. Your Cannondale prophet/rize( I assumed140mm lefty) is hardly being utilized to its fully regardless of how hard you ride it. Mtb are over designed for their intended used, most failures occur by freak accidents for example high speed g out.

    The great thing about this country is that we tolerate our differences, most people exercise inner thoughts. Living in SoCal, I've seen many things I would not do like parking a maybach on a narrow streets, or parking a uber expensive on a no parking zone on purpose because a $75 ticket is cheaper than fixing the dings on the car or have valet guys take out for a joyride no matter how short it is.

    I just hope that you don't work for government because, you should not have any ability to regulate what you see as silly, or "no more than one's need". If you said that you were jealous then it would be normal as we all have experienced that one time or another but that's not the case here.

    You went so far as to suggested that we should make a lists of things we want in a bike and get only what we need. who make you bike police. That's the message I've got from your posts. The problem with good intention sometime is the unintended consequences.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mimi1885 View Post
    To its fully? I doubt that. Your Cannondale prophet/rize( I assumed140mm lefty) is hardly being utilized to its fully regardless of how hard you ride it. Mtb are over designed for their intended used, most failures occur by freak accidents for example high speed g out.

    The great thing about this country is that we tolerate our differences, most people exercise inner thoughts. Living in SoCal, I've seen many things I would not do like parking a maybach on a narrow streets, or parking a uber expensive on a no parking zone on purpose because a $75 ticket is cheaper than fixing the dings on the car or have valet guys take out for a joyride no matter how short it is.

    I just hope that you don't work for government because, you should not have any ability to regulate what you see as silly, or "no more than one's need". If you said that you were jealous then it would be normal as we all have experienced that one time or another but that's not the case here.

    You went so far as to suggested that we should make a lists of things we want in a bike and get only what we need. who make you bike police. That's the message I've got from your posts. The problem with good intention sometime is the unintended consequences.
    Got some thoughts going, and it is interesting that the most vociferous are pillorying me for bringing this up! Seems I have touched some nerves... I am not setting myself up as some sort of 'fit for usage' enforcer here. If you read what I am saying, you will see that I am saying it is sad some people feel the need for ostentation, not that they are sad themselves. It is not my place to sit in judgment on anyone, please do not accuse me of doing that.
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  23. #23
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    You didnt touch anyones nerves , its just stupid that you feel the need to think its sad that people want to buy whatever they want but yet you say your not judging but you really are so maybe you need to go reread what you posted sir. I find it silly that your so worried about what others are riding , while you should worry about what works for you and your budget .

    I have a $450 helmet but i also have a $100 helmet that does the same thing , are you going to look at me and think its sad that i need such a helmet? Its fine , cuz i have it and you dont and WE all mountain bikers should buy whatever we want without being judged on whats too much and whats needed . Your thread comes across as ignorant , foolish, and jealous .. Just sayin , no need to justify yourself to me . Peace

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    My primary bike is a 2003 KHS hardtail I built myself. There are newer bike ou there these days that a very nice, but they are all over priced. I can still ride this bike anywhere my legs and skills will take me. Even on the racing circuit it will do just fine.

    I could spend a lot on a new bike, but I really would not be having any more fun. I believe the people that think they need a 5k bike to have fun are misguided. I belive theat those that think a 5k bike make them super riders better that anyone else are elistist losers.

    I have most respect for those that ride what they have and enjoy it. A fit and technically strong rider is good on anything.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    My primary bike is a 2003 KHS hardtail I built myself. There are newer bike ou there these days that a very nice, but they are all over priced. I can still ride this bike anywhere my legs and skills will take me. Even on the racing circuit it will do just fine.

    I could spend a lot on a new bike, but I really would not be having any more fun. I believe the people that think they need a 5k bike to have fun are misguided. I belive theat those that think a 5k bike make them super riders better that anyone else are elistist losers.

    I have most respect for those that ride what they have and enjoy it. A fit and technically strong rider is good on anything.
    Overpriced is about it. As long as people are willing to spend that much on a bike, the companies are going to charge that much. People buy into the 'it's expensive so it must be good' thing.
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    I could spend a lot on a new bike, but I really would not be having any more fun. I believe the people that think they need a 5k bike to have fun are misguided. I belive theat those that think a 5k bike make them super riders better that anyone else are elistist losers.
    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    Overpriced is about it. As long as people are willing to spend that much on a bike, the companies are going to charge that much. People buy into the 'it's expensive so it must be good' thing.
    If that's what you have to tell yourself to sleep better at night then by all mean it's all good. If you think that you only require a minimum investment on equipments to have fun then it's misguided. People can buy whatever they want and have any kind of fun they want without your approval. I'm sure you think it's all the same but it's not, if it is all of the grassroot racers would have been on a stock whatever, but they are not.

    I think it's funny how if one buy an uber expensive bike you feel like it's ok to call them elitist losers or misguidedly thinking "it's expensive so it must be good". what's the connection? It could be as superficial as the bling factor, and so the hell what? Buying cheaper bikes does not make anyone smart with their money, it may simply means that's what they can afford or think it's enough for their intended use. Stop boosting your ego by justifying your lack of spending as a smart thing. It is what it is. Some like to have bike that cost more and some like ones that cost less, some riders have more biking skills than others there's not necessary any connections. It's impossible to know all of the variables.

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    Its funny, I go through phases where I drool and lust after an expensive new bike (this year it was a road bike, since I LOVE my current MTB). Then, I go for a great 100+km rambling road ride on my ancient (ok, 7 year old) 'cross bike and realize that dropping $4k would not enhance my experience at all. Then, the cycle continues - lust, ride, lust...

    ** disclaimer - I do not care at all how much or how little anyone else spends on a bike, for any reason.

  28. #28
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    I bought my Bronson for two reasons...because I wanted it and because I can...I am not any faster or better but I must say I sure look good on it...

  29. #29
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    Fun factor "11" is possible on a 400 dollar monocog, can we all agree on that? what happens when that same dude wins the lottery and has an unlimited budget? my guess is fun factor 11 on more trails, more often, and on more bikes. (that's how I'd do it).

  30. #30
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    Nothing wrong with buying an expensive bike. Just realize you are spending it because you want to not because you need such bike to simply ride the trails.
    Joe
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    Re: Being honest about your needs/Being happy with what you have

    Its an economic issue. If we were all rich none of this would matter.

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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by mimi1885 View Post
    If that's what you have to tell yourself to sleep better at night then by all mean it's all good. If you think that you only require a minimum investment on equipments to have fun then it's misguided. People can buy whatever they want and have any kind of fun they want without your approval. I'm sure you think it's all the same but it's not, if it is all of the grassroot racers would have been on a stock whatever, but they are not.

    I think it's funny how if one buy an uber expensive bike you feel like it's ok to call them elitist losers or misguidedly thinking "it's expensive so it must be good". what's the connection? It could be as superficial as the bling factor, and so the hell what? Buying cheaper bikes does not make anyone smart with their money, it may simply means that's what they can afford or think it's enough for their intended use. Stop boosting your ego by justifying your lack of spending as a smart thing. It is what it is. Some like to have bike that cost more and some like ones that cost less, some riders have more biking skills than others there's not necessary any connections. It's impossible to know all of the variables.
    - I sleep fine thanks! I still think much of what we see is overpriced.
    - I do think that we only need a minimum investment on equipment to have fun. I think I said that already? You don't agree it seems.
    - If grassroot racers are not on 'stock', what are they on? prototype gear? I think not... Perhaps things have changed, but when I used to race in the UK many years ago, most grassroot racers were struggling on bikes and equipment pieced together however they could. It did not seem to matter to their results too much.
    - I never actually called anyone an 'elitist loser', you made that up! and I did not claim 'it's expensive so it must be good'... you just misinterpreted what I was saying.
    - You say "buying cheaper bikes does not make anyone smart with their money". Huh? You may want to reread that and have a think about it. I think it does?

    I do agree that it is impossible to know all the variations at play, I just pointed out one set of 'variables' Not trying to boost my ego, just trying to provoke thought and perhaps show someone that it is not necessary to drop a bunch of cash to enjoy mountain biking as much as you can. Is that so very bad? You seem to think so, and it just makes me wonder why you feel that way? The sour grapes you mentioned earlier seem to not be from me!
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    I bought a 2013 rumblefish elite in jan. As i was walking out of the store another guy was buying same bike.

    I blew a spoke out a few rides ago, when picking my bike up from the shop there was a twin bike hanging next to mine in the service area. The bike was perfect still, not a scratch. My poor bike looked like it had been through a war in comparison. At the register paying, that guy from back in January walks in and recognizes me and my bike. We get to talking and the guy raves about how much fun the bike is, and how much he has enjoyed it.

    Am i "using" the potential of my bike more than him? Yes of course! To hear that man tell it, he was getting every penny worth out of what he was using and couldn't be happier.

    Enjoyment, value, need, and appreciation are all relative to the individual. Parking lot envy is about as silly as parking lot posturing.

  34. #34
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    rockerc - you must not really follow much downhill , as many new products not released to the public aka prototypes are given to PRO riders to test out and get feedback. So i dunno what era your living in. Also , NO many racers are on VERY expensive top of the line equipment and sometimes are sponsored by companies too . Who are you to say we only need a minimum investment tho ? Thats your opinion or judgement . I could careless if a new rider paid 10k for a bike or 1k , his money and his choice , big deal .

    Okay so you see a bike you like , but it costs 4k cuz thats the way the market is what do you do ? Not buy it cuz its marked up too high and buy something you dont like ? Such a stupid logic . Every single bike is overpriced, even the ones you guys are riding . Your talking about market pricing . You dont have to drop massive amounts of money into this sport but you can , there is new technology , stronger and better parts .You can buy different parts to customize the look and feel of your bike . You can keep a decent fork on your bike or pay for a better one. This is the point some of you guys are not seeing . Hey you might be fine riding your bikes on the same trails and not upgrading cuz thats YOU. You dont know if someone is riding hard or not , maybe someone is a racer and needs the lighter weight parts .

    Ive ridden lower specd bikes and higher end bikes and there is a difference . I dont know what type of riding you guys do but all i know is for downhill i cant accept cheap low end parts . I know quality and proven parts that will provide results and will hold up to the abuse and i will pay the price for it as well . Its all about demand in the market and what companies can get away with. Your paying for R&D , marketing , advertisement , overhead costs, employees , etc .. Too many variables ....

  35. #35
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    Being honest about your needs/Being happy with what you have

    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    Nothing wrong with buying an expensive bike. Just realize you are spending it because you want to not because you need such bike to simply ride the trails.
    That I agree. I can have as much fun with any one if my bikes on the same trails regardless of the type and price.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRingGrinder View Post
    Am i "using" the potential of my bike more than him? Yes of course! To hear that man tell it, he was getting every penny worth out of what he was using and couldn't be happier.

    Enjoyment, value, need, and appreciation are all relative to the individual. Parking lot envy is about as silly as parking lot posturing.
    Totally agree!

    I was on a local fire road and this guy is descending like an old lady on a pretty expensive bike. (Bare in mind I am NOT an aggressive rider, so he was going really slow for me to say this...) We stop and talk. I ask if he took the single track thru the woods on the way down. And he says 'What trail?' You'd have to dead not to see the turn off on the climb - it's like 3 feet wide where it meets the road..

    Anyway -> How do you like your bike?

    "Oh I just love this bike - I ride here all the time and really pound the crap out of it - blah - blah"
    The bike looked factory fresh...

    I didn't have a bit of ill will for the guy. The way I look at it, is he is on his trip and I'm on mine.

    At least he is out doing something instead of watching Chumly!

    Who am I do say my trip is better than yours?

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    I always seem to find that the fun ends when something breaks.
    And there is no real cost relationship when something breaks.

    Expensive or cheap, when it breaks, it breaks.

    See Sig Line for what I agree with.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by aedubber View Post
    rockerc - you must not really follow much downhill , as many new products not released to the public aka prototypes are given to PRO riders to test out and get feedback. So i dunno what era your living in. Also , NO many racers are on VERY expensive top of the line equipment and sometimes are sponsored by companies too . Who are you to say we only need a minimum investment tho ? Thats your opinion or judgement . I could careless if a new rider paid 10k for a bike or 1k , his money and his choice , big deal .

    Okay so you see a bike you like , but it costs 4k cuz thats the way the market is what do you do ? Not buy it cuz its marked up too high and buy something you dont like ? Such a stupid logic . Every single bike is overpriced, even the ones you guys are riding . Your talking about market pricing . You dont have to drop massive amounts of money into this sport but you can , there is new technology , stronger and better parts .You can buy different parts to customize the look and feel of your bike . You can keep a decent fork on your bike or pay for a better one. This is the point some of you guys are not seeing . Hey you might be fine riding your bikes on the same trails and not upgrading cuz thats YOU. You dont know if someone is riding hard or not , maybe someone is a racer and needs the lighter weight parts .

    Ive ridden lower specd bikes and higher end bikes and there is a difference . I dont know what type of riding you guys do but all i know is for downhill i cant accept cheap low end parts . I know quality and proven parts that will provide results and will hold up to the abuse and i will pay the price for it as well . Its all about demand in the market and what companies can get away with. Your paying for R&D , marketing , advertisement , overhead costs, employees , etc .. Too many variables ....
    You are missing pretty much everything I have been saying, and agreeing with some of it. You ask who I am to say we only need a minimum investment? I am someone who has ridden bikes all my life, and I believe I have got pretty much all I can out of the bikes and parts I have been lucky enough at any time to afford, high end or not so high end. I have been in the enviable position in my life to have stood in a bike shop with the ability to buy whatever I wanted to kit out a new bike, and yes it was fun to do, but not really necessary. At least I went into that with some knowledge of what I could actually use and get benefit from spending the extra money.
    I also have never bought something I didn't like because I could not afford something I did like, but you are making up that I do or have done?!? And that my (made up by you) logic is unsound? You are completely missing my point, but then you demonstrate that you agree with me by saying things like: "you don't have to drop massive amounts of money into this sport..." and "what companies can get away with"...

    Sheesh!
    It's all Here. Now.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post

    I suggest we all look at exactly what kind of riding we do, be honest about it, and make a comprehensive list of what we don't really need...
    Poor Rocker, everyone's bustin' your balls!

    I kind of get your point, but don't entirely agree either.

    There's only two performance things going on with a bike that are rider related; fitness, skills. A skilled fit rider will rail corners like a mad man, bunny hop at warp speed, possibly do huge drops and jumps (discipline dependent) and climb, accelerate, sprint, and generally all out hammer all the time.

    An expensive well equipped bike will just make him faster, as it would do for a slower less skilled rider to a lesser extent.

    This stuff isn't like motorcycle racing where some amateur shows up at a race with an RC 30 and can't ride it. I saw this happen when I was racing.

    We are talking bicycles here, and a reasonably well equipped MTB of $2000 isn't going to perform that much worse than a $7000 bike.

    I'm guessing that your beef is with an unskilled rider who can't ride anything well showing up at the trail head with an expensive bike?

    I see this all the time, and the reason it doesn't bother me is the fact that skills and speed can't be bought with a bank account.

    Now, for the quoted portion above, and things I don't need:

    full suspension. (maintenance)
    lockout. (I have it on one bike and use it on the road only, meaning almost never)
    big ring (almost never ride the road)
    carbon fibre (had it and worried about damage all the time)
    tubeless (I don't want the mess)
    10 speed (I just ditched my 8 speed last year)
    external BB (square taper FTW!)
    light wheels (I'm less than graceful)

    Drew
    occasional cyclist

  40. #40
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    Just so you guys know, my bikes ALL look factory fresh..
    I take care of them, paint chips get fixed, bikes cleaned after every ride, maintenance
    done constantly.
    Then again, I am ocd so that could explain alot.
    Don't give a crap what someone rides, as long as they ride.
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    I actually have a pretty good job and can, within reason, afford any bike I want. I happen to really like the more high end bikes as they are better than the cheaper bikes; how much better and whether the extra quality is worth the money is impossible to debate because there are so many variables to consider the most important of which is how much disposable income you have. Back when I was a resident paying 4000 bucks for a bike would have been irresponsible and unjustifiable-financial suicide. Now? No big deal.

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    And yes, sometimes I take my high tech full-suspension mountain bike to the local park for a leisurely ride on paved trails with my girlfriend who rides my 2011 Specialized Enduro that I modified for her use. (Replaced the Hammerschmidt with a 1x9 setup with only the small chainring, big cushy sprung saddle, flat pedals, and a nice little bell. )

    I'm sure if the OP saw us he'd mark us as poseurs.

    On the same note, sometimes when I blow by a group of young, fit guys struggling on crappy second-rate bikes (usually going up hills) I am glad I can afford nice bikes. Why should I apologize? I worked hard to get where I am.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailuropoda View Post

    I'm sure if the OP saw us he'd mark us as poseurs.

    On the same note, sometimes when I blow by a group of young, fit guys struggling on crappy second-rate bikes (usually going up hills) I am glad I can afford nice bikes. Why should I apologize? I worked hard to get where I am.
    Again, you are making stuff up about what I would think! My post was intended to highlight something completely different to what you and others are fingering me for! Appreciation of a good piece of machinery is a whole different kettle of fish to someone who gets it because they have the income, but don't have a clue what they are actually getting... THAT was what I was talking about... I have never said anything about poseurs, altho, now you mention it
    It's all Here. Now.

  44. #44
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    Part of the fun is buying all the cool stuff and piecing it together. That's really how I started learning about bike parts too. So in a sense me spending $$$$ = getting a bike education. I encourage people to buy the raddest stuff they can even if they have no idea what it is or what it does. There isn't any harm in owning cool stuff. People that scoff at the dude with the $8k+ need to not worry about and just be stoked for the guy.

    Originally you wrote that the bike sales guy told the dude that the carbon was faster than the alloy frame then he gave you one of those "looks". He should have take the opportunity to educate the dude and been stoked for him that he was even interested in spending the absurd amount of money that we spend on bikes.

    So my advice is, evaluate your riding style, level and goals then blow as much cash as you can on the raddest, lightest, stiffest shit you can bolt on to the sickest frame you can find. This way you know where you're at and where you can go on your super baller machine.

  45. #45
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    Re: Being honest about your needs/Being happy with what you have

    I don't see why so many people are bashing at rockerc's post so much. I don't think he was judging specific members on the forum. I think he was making more of a social comment. We live in a society where bling is everything. We have one bike but we want the other and I'm surely no exception . We all lust at material possessions but why do we need to satisfy our materialistic envies so much. I guess it's human nature and I think that's the question this post is asking.

    Sent from Samsung Galaxy using Tapatalk.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryan_daugherty View Post
    Part of the fun is buying all the cool stuff and piecing it together. That's really how I started learning about bike parts too. So in a sense me spending $$$$ = getting a bike education. I encourage people to buy the raddest stuff they can even if they have no idea what it is or what it does. There isn't any harm in owning cool stuff. People that scoff at the dude with the $8k+ need to not worry about and just be stoked for the guy.

    Originally you wrote that the bike sales guy told the dude that the carbon was faster than the alloy frame then he gave you one of those "looks". He should have take the opportunity to educate the dude and been stoked for him that he was even interested in spending the absurd amount of money that we spend on bikes.

    So my advice is, evaluate your riding style, level and goals then blow as much cash as you can on the raddest, lightest, stiffest shit you can bolt on to the sickest frame you can find. This way you know where you're at and where you can go on your super baller machine.
    First you say you encourage people to buy the raddest stuff they can even if they don't know what it is or what it does, but then advise people to evaluate their riding style, level and goals and then blow as much cash as they can? That doesn't really compute. I love high end components, and do all I can to get what I need, but, as you said, some of the prices for the top end stuff are indeed absurd. I will spend time in search af a great deal if it can be found, and usually have some flexibility in what I end up deciding on. The raddest and sickest is not always the most suitable, but whatever floats your boat
    It's all Here. Now.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imasphere View Post
    I don't see why so many people are bashing at rockerc's post so much. I don't think he was judging specific members on the forum. I think he was making more of a social comment. We live in a society where bling is everything. We have one bike but we want the other and I'm surely no exception . We all lust at material possessions but why do we need to satisfy our materialistic envies so much. I guess it's human nature and I think that's the question this post is asking.

    Sent from Samsung Galaxy using Tapatalk.
    This is what I am talking about Makes a change to have someone agree on one of my opinions! Where do you stand on handlebar position and leverage relative to bike handling?!? Heheh!
    It's all Here. Now.

  49. #49
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    if he dropped that much money on a bike without researching it, I doubt his bank account took much of a hit.

    its probably like a middle class noob picking a between a 400 and 600 dollar bike.

    I advise to buy the best you can afford so you don't buy twice. do some research and test ride as much as possible. even if you don't test the exact bike you end up ordering, at least try similar geo, wheel size etc.

  50. #50
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    People would save a lot of money if they just bought what they would actually notice and would increase their enjoyment rather than buying something because everybody says it's "better". Sure, a single speed rigid bike is all any non-racer type really "needs", but most riders will have more fun with other features. Personally, I really enjoy having full-suspension and a dropper post. I also enjoy having a 36 tooth cog for the steep climbs around here. I enjoy not having to get off of my bike to lower my seat or pass on all the jumps and technical lines. If people would do some research and be honest with their "needs", people would likely have lighter, simpler, more reliable, and cheaper bikes and equipment. Most people don't need and probably wouldn't even notice a 50 gram weight difference on the trail unless they're racing competitively. Be an intelligent buyer if you want to maximize your potential. Spend the money you saved on more important things. However, if you want to overspend on things that you won't even notice, then go ahead. The bike industry needs you, too!

  51. #51
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    The only guy I have ever despised because of his bike was the dude on the singlespeed that smoked me and my buddy on the buckhorn climb! We thought we were moving good and he blew by us. Of course it was only motivation to work harder because no bike, short of one with a motor, will make me climb like he did. Why should we care about what someone rides, if they ride it and like it, perfect. If they ride it and don't like it, someone who does ride picks up a killer deal off of craigslist! And if he bought it at your LBS, that business helps keep them open. Hmmm.... don't see a loser in this situation.
    Just circles turning circles....

  52. #52
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    I think I see what the OP is saying. It's one thing to spend big $ on something because that's the only way to get exactly what you want. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. It is another thing all together to not know what you want and throw a big pile of money away in the hope that you end up wanting what you have. I know too many people that do this and they all seem to be very dissatisfied all of the time. That's what makes it sad, they are so unhappy.


    Rockerc, I've rummaged about in the attic and found a pair of '90s bar ends that I could send your way.
    Last edited by skullcap; 05-31-2013 at 07:12 AM.
    I'm enjoying my childhood way too much to ever give it up.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by skullcap View Post

    Rockerc, I've rummaged about in the attic and found a pair of '90s bar ends that I could send your way.
    Already got some thanks! Every time I open the 'old and medium sized bike parts' drawer, I see them sitting there, taunting me... They are titanium tho...
    It's all Here. Now.

  54. #54
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    Oh, well mine are only aluminum anyway.



    You know I keep trying to give those things away and I never can get any takers...
    I'm enjoying my childhood way too much to ever give it up.

  55. #55
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    BUT, better to buy what you want/like/need the first time than saying; I'll just get this for now and buy that later, thinking you will save some coin, when in a month or two you'll go back and buy what you wanted anyway…buy right the first time…I.E. I bought the Prodeco Phantom thinking I could road and trail…wrong…got the Neo Jumper now and super satisfied!…anyone want to buy a good used Prodeco Phantom?…lol...

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by LTZ470 View Post
    BUT, better to buy what you want/like/need the first time than saying; I'll just get this for now and buy that later, thinking you will save some coin, when in a month or two you'll go back and buy what you wanted anyway…buy right the first time…I.E. I bought the Prodeco Phantom thinking I could road and trail…wrong…got the Neo Jumper now and super satisfied!…anyone want to buy a good used Prodeco Phantom?…lol...
    Those darn 'lectrick bikes... they'se VOODOO I tell 'eee!
    It's all Here. Now.

  57. #57
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    No matter the skill level of the rider, having better equipment enhances the riding experience. High end/low weight components, high quality shocks and forks, all on a light weight frame that is super stiff, is better for any level of rider compared to lesser equipment.

    I do not agree there is or should be a link between the bike a rider should consider buying and the amount of the bikes ultimate potential a rider can realistically expect to use. To a lot of people, buying a $6,000 bike does essentially nothing to their bank account, so why would they even think about saving a couple grand? They want what they want and they are buying it and that's good for them and the end of it as far as I'm concerned.

    My spare bike is a low end FS rig with mediocre components which I still ride on occasion. My newer bike is a high end carbon FS rig that is an absolute pleasure to ride. No way I get everything out of this bike that an expert rider could get, but I sure as heck try. I can afford it, and I'm really glad that I can, because riding my high end bike without question enhances the riding experience. All I need to do to remind myself of that is go for a spin on the old bike.

  58. #58
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    Getting schooled by Chrissy Redden probably isn't anything to be embarrassed about.



    Quote Originally Posted by aerius View Post
    To put it bluntly, unless you're a pro or you have a starring role in a bike video such as New World Disorder, it's pretty safe to say that you're not using your bike to its full potential. I once traded bikes with Ryan Leech, he did things with my bike that I didn't think were possible and I couldn't even imagine. I kinda stood there with my mouth open going "WTF?? How is that possible?!" Then there was the time I got schooled by Chrissy Redden, it was embarrassing.
    "Chancho. When you are a man sometimes you wear stretchy pants... Its for fun..."

  59. #59
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    Would love to be able to go back to the multi bike days, would be nice to have a long travel 27.5, short travel 29 and a carbon hard tail 29 plus a Ti and a carbon roadie.

    Currently have a beat down rattle can painted Al/Carbon roadie and an Al 29er, happy with what I have and honesty don't need anything else.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by freakybro View Post
    No matter the skill level of the rider, having better equipment enhances the riding experience. High end/low weight components, high quality shocks and forks, all on a light weight frame that is super stiff, is better for any level of rider compared to lesser equipment.

    I do not agree there is or should be a link between the bike a rider should consider buying and the amount of the bikes ultimate potential a rider can realistically expect to use. To a lot of people, buying a $6,000 bike does essentially nothing to their bank account, so why would they even think about saving a couple grand? They want what they want and they are buying it and that's good for them and the end of it as far as I'm concerned.

    My spare bike is a low end FS rig with mediocre components which I still ride on occasion. My newer bike is a high end carbon FS rig that is an absolute pleasure to ride. No way I get everything out of this bike that an expert rider could get, but I sure as heck try. I can afford it, and I'm really glad that I can, because riding my high end bike without question enhances the riding experience. All I need to do to remind myself of that is go for a spin on the old bike.
    You are a lucky guy that 6k does not dent the bank balance. The majority of people in this country, and in all other countries except perhaps that small island in the Pacific where everyone is a millionaire, are not living in this world...
    It's all Here. Now.

  61. #61
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    That is the point. Don't lust after a 6k bike when you have no way to afford one. If you earn enough that you can drop 10k on bike and not worry then just go do it. However it like most people you have to watch your spending and buying a really expensive bike will require cutting back other areas then really consider if you need that bike or want that bike. You can be just as happy on much much cheaper bike.
    Joe
    '18 Specialized Epic 29", Vassago Verhauen SS 29", '19 Ibis Ripmo, XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  62. #62
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    Joepaz - how do you know who can afford what ? The OP said some guy wanted to buy a 6k bike but had no idea what he was buying so obviously he can afford it . The point is nothing , it shouldn't be a concern on how people spend their money . People will buy what they want to buy if they know anything about it or not . Every hobby can be cheap or expensive depending which path you take , there is no right or wrong on personal opinion and preference.

    Rockerc- dunno what world you live in but I see plenty of 6k bikes from mountain to road. Maybe you need to change hobbies if your going to be a baby about it . Be happy for what you have and im sure others are happy about what they have no matter what the price is . People have different disposable monies available for whatever they want . Ill tell you one thing tho , this biking hobby is a lot cheaper then when I was building up cars in my own garage .

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    Be happy with what you have? I love my 99 corolla with 128 K on the odometer. It doesn't cost me anything, so I can spend it on bikes. All 9 of them. Some free, some winter beaters, some nice. He who dies with the most toys wins. :0) Just got a new 29er enduro, trying to use as much fun as it will let me. My 05 Kona Dawg Supreme keeps on taking a beating, without fail. YRMV

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by aedubber View Post
    Joepaz - how do you know who can afford what ? The OP said some guy wanted to buy a 6k bike but had no idea what he was buying so obviously he can afford it . The point is nothing , it shouldn't be a concern on how people spend their money . ..
    You seem so defenisive about this. Really if you want to spend 8k on a bike be my guest. I don't really care. However I have seen it number of areas in (mtn bike are just one) where people think that they need to spend big bucks to get in on the action. I have seen people spend 130k on new Porsche Factory race car that could not drive their way out of a paper bag. Heck I remember some guy with a brand new Ferrari 360 challenge car with pro racing slicks on cold day at the track. He was in a beginner run group and in about 5 laps crashed his car in the wall. He might have been rich, but not the brightest bulb out there either. Then there are guys really fast cars are just slow. So slow they try to race a guy with 300 less hp than they have. Well dude not only are we in different classes and therefore not cool to race each other, but do you think it even close to fair fight to rocket away on the straights only to hold up the slower car in the turns where it takes driving skill?

    Point a lot of people lose sight that activity like this are not about spending money to be fast or cool. They are about getting out and doing it and giving it your all. Speed comes with skills and cannot be bought. Those of us with smaller budgets need remember that just because some guy has a 6k or 8k bike it does not make them a better rider. The only thing you can assume is that they choose to spend alot of $$$$ on a bike.

    Also you can look at the new bikes out there and all the marketing hype about how this new feature is so much better and so much of a must have, but at the end of the day the rider still needs get it done. The idea that any 2013 bike is so much better than the 2012 version is crazy. They have to feed you these lines to con you into buying more.

    Best to buy bike and ride it into the ground. Enjoy it for what it is and when it worn out get new one.
    Joe
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  65. #65
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    Not defensive but I dont think its right for someone to dictate how or what someone should do with their money. There are many reasons why people drop big money on a bike , I just dont see why its such a big deal to the OP since he created a thread about it . I agree that the bike doesn't make the rider but people just wanna buy what they want . The OP was being judgmental about it , rather then worry about how much a person spent on a bike or if he/she cant take full advantage of it , why not just not worry about it and let people be . Im sure we all have bigger issues then worry about people's spending habits.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    You are a lucky guy that 6k does not dent the bank balance. The majority of people in this country, and in all other countries except perhaps that small island in the Pacific where everyone is a millionaire, are not living in this world...
    The point is that better equipment benefits all skill levels, so linking amount people should spend to ability makes no sense.

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    If by "being honest about your needs" you mean buying the right bike for the job (ie; not buying a $4000 carbon mtb if you just need a bike for casual rides on the bike paths) then I agree with you.

    I also agree that most of us probably buy more bike than we need- but if it gets you out on the trails and keeps you coming back, then it's a good thing. And we can all aspire to eventually be as good as our bike.
    Last edited by MtbRN; 05-31-2013 at 07:49 PM. Reason: oops
    I drank the 29er koolaid- turns out it was POWERade :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by aedubber View Post

    Rockerc- dunno what world you live in but I see plenty of 6k bikes from mountain to road. Maybe you need to change hobbies if your going to be a baby about it . Be happy for what you have and im sure others are happy about what they have no matter what the price is . People have different disposable monies available for whatever they want . Ill tell you one thing tho , this biking hobby is a lot cheaper then when I was building up cars in my own garage .
    Yup, I see plenty of those expensive bikes too, but I would guess that most people riding them had to either scrimp to pay for them, or are still paying for them. No matter, as I said before, I couldn't give a rat's ass how people spend their money, but I find it silly that people feel a need to drop a bunch of cash in the vain hope it will buy them entry into the good rider club... much the same as the guy who buys a quarter mill car without the ability to get it around a road like it is meant to be taken. That is not being judgmental, it is voicing my opinion that you have every right to disagree with. Oh, and mountain biking is hardly a 'hobby' for me, it is a lifelong commitment to peace of mind, good health and mental stability. I am a long way from being a baby too, almost 6 decades...
    It's all Here. Now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    Yup,as I said before, I couldn't give a rat's ass how people spend their money, but I find it silly that people feel a need to drop a bunch of cash in the vain hope it will buy them entry into the good rider club... much the same as the guy who buys a quarter mill car without the ability to get it around a road like it is meant to be taken. That is not being judgmental, it is voicing my opinion that you have every right to disagree with. Oh, and mountain biking is hardly a 'hobby' for me, it is a lifelong commitment to peace of mind, good health and mental stability. I am a long way from being a baby too, almost 6 decades...
    All evidence to the contrary

    If you don't give a rat's ass about it keep it to yourself. I don't give a rat's ass about what people spend but I like to voice my opinion against people who judge others on how they spend their money on bike or components. I may voice my opinion on the selection and intended use. If someone want to use an XC bike for downhill, or vice versa I'd let them know. As far as the trim line, who cares.

    Nice things cost money, top of the line things cost even more money without the people who's spending on top shelf stuffs, there will be no cheaper trickle down components for the rest of us to enjoy. Do they get a thank you? e'FF no, they got this thread.

    I'm quite careful with my spending so a few years ago, before I gave up $4k on a custom ti frame, I made sure to research about the design. So I bought 2 Alu version one from Maverick and another from Klein rode it for a year, learning everything about it. Then I went ahead and ordered my bike. So I spent $7k extra on two test bikes to make sure that my $7k+ custom bike investment was a good one. I was quite happy about it, I didn't take the plunge before I was absolutely sure.

    The same thing happened when it comes to trail bikes I'm between small and med on the Ibis Mojo so I got me one of each, as well as the Intense 5.5 and Spider, I just had to be sure, I didn't spend foolishly on different brands/model

  70. #70
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    I find it silly that people feel a need to drop a bunch of cash in the vain hope it will buy them entry into the good rider club...
    I essentially agreed with this earlier on, but as others said, it is the buyers prerogative....however, most of you folks are needlessly busting the poor guy's balls and none of you have offered up one iota of 'what you actually need' to paraphrase Rocker...

    I listed off a few things I can live without in my earlier post; what about the rest of you?

    Drew
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  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by dru View Post
    I essentially agreed with this earlier on, but as others said, it is the buyers prerogative....however, most of you folks are needlessly busting the poor guy's balls and none of you have offered up one iota of 'what you actually need' to paraphrase Rocker...

    I listed off a few things I can live without in my earlier post; what about the rest of you?

    Drew
    Like many other sports, more expensive equipments are usually more forgiving. For example, golf, more expensive clubs would allow you to hit further and straighter, and if you are a beginner it's a good thing. There's nothing wrong with buying skills of wider margin of errors.

    Mountain bikes and components are pretty much the same. I found that top of the line components bail you out more times than entry level. XTR will shift underload, XX front derailleur would shift under almost full load on the climb, and of course the Hammerschmidt would shift anywhere, anytime. Experienced riders usually would not make a rookie mistakes and shift under full load in the middle of the hill. Good shifters would allow for more precise and crisp shifting.

    Better components would offer more control, like suspension and brake, cheapy ones are grabby and offer no or little modulations.

    On the suspension front or rear, the more expensive models offers more ways to tune the suspension for better compression and rebound, you can have a good sets of suspension that would allow you to climb aggressively and yet allow for fully active action too.

    Most important components for any noobs would be the adjustable seatpost, it would allow for optimum climbing saddle height and the ability to drop the height all the way down for maximum control.

    Wheelset, it's not about having the lightest wheel but good balance of weight and strength, some would also like higher point of engagement as well. Some companies are so slick they can do all of that with added bling factor as well.

    Tires, expensive tires offer balance of light weight, traction, and protection against punctures better than cheaper tires, you don't think it's important? Think again.

    Then there's the question of the frame. Hardtail, well you can't really screw it up even if you try, they have been around for a long time now so it's very difficult to build one up poorly. Let's just talk about Full Suspension. I will concede that many if not most of the name brands are exceptionally good for trail riding. The cheapy ones are just terrible offer very little efficiency because the lack of proper design.

    All of these add up to higher price. Any experienced riders can ride a hardtail or rigid bike on our home trail or any trails, we just have to use our body and experience to compensate for the lack of margin of error. Many of us who own more than one type of bikes have done this, it's actually very refreshing to challenge yourself like that, of course most of us would not do that full time. I enjoy riding my SS softtail but I would not do that all the time.

    So to answer the op's op, noobs would greatly benefit better bike with better components than any other group, yes it's more expensive but if money is not the issue then go for it. Just like golf, the better you are the cheaper your equipments require to perform average task, just add skills.

    This is nothing more than a sour grape rant on the original post. It's ok for him to have a carbon bike with carbon fork but not for some noobs's first bike? Please

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    Exactly, I find that the people who ***** and moan just like the OP did with this thread are the jealous type. Look at the words your using, your saying that most the people are still paying for it or had to scrimp for the money ?.How do you know that from someone you dont know ?

    Hate jealousy or envy ? Which one lol

  73. #73
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    Yeah, yeah, I get where you might construe Rocker's post as being jealousy or envy, although I don't actually think he feels that way.

    However, he and I had asked what you might need or not need.

    JSYN, I have a couple of nice bikes with stuff like XTR, Thomson, Middleburn etc. on them. They are fine machines but not ostentatious by any means

    I have about 4 K into one and maybe 3 into the other but it has a custom frame too. Neither bike is new anymore and I am the kind of person that hold onto bikes for a long time.

    I really like the high end stuff, but also shy away from upgrading every season. Some things like the new 2x cranks aren't an improvement imho.

    I have already listed things I can do without, what about you?

    Drew
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  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by dru View Post
    Yeah, yeah, I get where you might construe Rocker's post as being jealousy or envy, although I don't actually think he feels that way.

    However, he and I had asked what you might need or not need.

    JSYN, I have a couple of nice bikes with stuff like XTR, Thomson, Middleburn etc. on them. They are fine machines but not ostentatious by any means

    I have about 4 K into one and maybe 3 into the other but it has a custom frame too. Neither bike is new anymore and I am the kind of person that hold onto bikes for a long time.

    I really like the high end stuff, but also shy away from upgrading every season. Some things like the new 2x cranks aren't an improvement imho.

    I have already listed things I can do without, what about you?

    Drew

    I just buy what i need or want ... Why is that so hard to understand ? What i might need is different from what you might need . I enjoy quality products and i will pay the price for quality . Some products are a bunch of hype while some actually do make a change .

    I have a mini studio setup in my room , i dont Dj or create music but i enjoy music . I dont need the setup i have for just listening to music but i can afford it and i enjoy the high end quality of it . Gives you a better listening experience and more enjoyable .

    Thats how i live my lifestyle , i work VERY hard running my own business so i like to enjoy life the way i want to . I pay my bills , put some money away , and buy things that i want to buy . I dont live with any regret , as you might not wake up to see the next day and money dont come with you when your not here so enjoy life .

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by aedubber View Post
    I just buy what i need or want ... Why is that so hard to understand ? What i might need is different from what you might need . I enjoy quality products and i will pay the price for quality . Some products are a bunch of hype while some actually do make a change .

    I have a mini studio setup in my room , i dont Dj or create music but i enjoy music . I dont need the setup i have for just listening to music but i can afford it and i enjoy the high end quality of it . Gives you a better listening experience and more enjoyable .

    Thats how i live my lifestyle , i work VERY hard running my own business so i like to enjoy life the way i want to . I pay my bills , put some money away , and buy things that i want to buy . I dont live with any regret , as you might not wake up to see the next day and money dont come with you when your not here so enjoy life .

    I don't understand why you guys are trying to justify yourselves? I am not knocking your choices, and many seem to tally with my own, but it seems you have an element of guilt to feel the need to defend yourselves so vehemently. Aedubber, I applaud your hard work to pay for what you need/want, but you fall so far outside the description of the person I originally described, it makes me wonder. There is zero hatred or jealousy from me, I am more than happy with my lot, please quit making sh*t up about me. BTW, you don't own a Hummer do you?!? No... just wondering...
    Mimi, you make a very good case for everyone starting out in the sport to go buy the most expensive stuff they can regardless of skill or knowledge, and advocate buying 2 of everything just to make sure you get the right thing eventually. I commend your consumerism, and desire to support a vibrant economy! Maybe take that tongue out of your cheek next time?

    Ooops, I forgot to add this:
    It's all Here. Now.

  76. #76
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    Rocker, these two need it all....... I was hoping that they'd list some things they don't need, but they won't......

    Mimi, my custom frame is a 'need' only because I don't want to look like a dork, as store bought 26er frames don't fit my 6'5" proportions.......

    Drew
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    Rockerc - No guilt or justification , just trying to give you some examples from a different perspective. The way i see it is , if you can afford it or want it , then buy it if it makes you happy . We all have our differences and opinions . We are given choices and options to spend a small amount or splurge and that would be applied to everything in life . Have a good day man !

    Dru- Are you a life therapist ? What i dont need , i dont buy . Again , what i might need or dont need is probably different from your needs . If your too busy wondering what people need and dont need in life then i think you might need to get yourself checked out lol . Who cares ?

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by mimi1885 View Post
    Like many other sports, more expensive equipments are usually more forgiving. For example, golf, more expensive clubs would allow you to hit further and straighter, and if you are a beginner it's a good thing. There's nothing wrong with buying skills of wider margin of errors.

    For the most part I agree with that, however "buying skills" can also mask deficiencies and hamper development. For example, a driver designed to straighten a slice may keep a golfer in the fairway while allowing him/her to continue using a flawed swing instead of fixing the core problem. An XTR drivetrain may allow you to shift under the heaviest loads but that's not necessarily a good habit to get into unless you enjoy breaking chains.

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    Apparently, every form of leisure activity now has to have an alibi. We're either "Racing for the Cure," Doing it For the Children, wearing Livestrong bracelets, or trying to convince people that we are emotionally pure and environmentally low impact because we ride the cheapest bike we possibly can.

    The urge to ride a cheap bike for the sake of riding a cheap bike is a perverse form of zealotry and a completely irrational one at that. The people over at BBB are the worst but this puritanical urge regularly finds its way to this forum. I get that many of you either can't afford nice bikes or don't want to sacrifice a lot of your disposable income but buying an expensive bike doesn't hurt anybody or have any effect on anybody else's life. Rather the contrary it provides the impetus for bike companies to make routine on low end bikes what was once exotic, top-of-the line stuff.

    So it's kind of silly in a retrogrouch way to call the faithful to their frugal prayers on a forum that celebrates all aspects of mountain biking including the practice of upgrading your bikes every now and then. There's more to it than just riding.

    Jeez.

  80. #80
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    Many folks will buy a small car this year and realize they needed a larger one, same with bikes, research, research, research, then buy...it will save you some coin, time, and also you'll be happier...I can fully understand folks that have a bike already paid for that works perfectly not upgrading...we have been doing the same with our vehicles for the past 10,000 miles, once something is paid for it's hard to part from it...I also have a rule, ALL toys pay cash/payoff soonest...ALL our toys are paid for from RV's to ATV's to UTV's to Bikes...that should be a factor as well...

  81. #81
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    Totally know where the OP is coming from and I was "that guy"once. I've learned it's not the 6000 dollar bike, it's did you buy the bike that works for your skill level and where you ride?

    I hadn't ridden a bike in at least 20 years and went into a shop looking for a bike. I wanted a road bike and walked out with a Trek Madone..2000 dollar one. Totally wrong bike for me as a newbie but wanted "cool", "fancy", "fast" and figured expensive meant that. The bike was too fast, too responsive for an unskilled rider and skinny tires didn't help with crappy roads. The bike actually hurt to ride but I didn't know enough to know that wasn't normal. Best thing I did was sell the bike.

    My first mountain bike was a Trek Mamba. Crashed on the second or third ride when the brakes failed and never trusted the brakes after that. Sold the bike and no regrets. It wasn't too much bike with this, just lack of skills.

    Now I'm on a fat bike that I love with better (not great) skills and just picked up a Ridley X-Bow that I absolutely adore. The other cross bike I was looking at was better equipped but this fit better. No regrets and I ride it everywhere.

    Cost is relative, but having the right bike for you and the conditions you ride in make all the difference in the world in respect to fun and enjoying the ride. I've put 125 miles on my cross bike in the short time I've had it and ridden more times per week than ever.

    Don't be too hard on the the guy that buys an expensive bike only to ride it a few times and sell it later claiming he didn't like it. Not all of us pick up riding a bike that easily especially if you haven't ridden in years and don't realize it takes time to learn those skills. They give up claiming the bike wasn't for them and walk away.

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailuropoda View Post
    Apparently, every form of leisure activity now has to have an alibi. We're either "Racing for the Cure," Doing it For the Children, wearing Livestrong bracelets, or trying to convince people that we are emotionally pure and environmentally low impact because we ride the cheapest bike we possibly can.

    The urge to ride a cheap bike for the sake of riding a cheap bike is a perverse form of zealotry and a completely irrational one at that. The people over at BBB are the worst but this puritanical urge regularly finds its way to this forum. I get that many of you either can't afford nice bikes or don't want to sacrifice a lot of your disposable income but buying an expensive bike doesn't hurt anybody or have any effect on anybody else's life. Rather the contrary it provides the impetus for bike companies to make routine on low end bikes what was once exotic, top-of-the line stuff.

    So it's kind of silly in a retrogrouch way to call the faithful to their frugal prayers on a forum that celebrates all aspects of mountain biking including the practice of upgrading your bikes every now and then. There's more to it than just riding.

    Jeez.

    There you go! Making stuff up about what I said! "The urge to ride a cheap bike for the sake of riding a cheap bike..." is nothing to do with what I said. How you get that I am a perverse zealot is the irrational part in this!
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    To me the OP is more about the silliness involved when people spend a ton of money and don't even know what they're buying, many times to the detriment of their goals. Like a beginner dropping $12,000 for an exact replica of Nino Schurter's race bike to use on paved bike paths.

    Reading this thread it's hard not to notice the defensiveness and justifications from those who own multiple high dollar bikes. It's unnecessary in my opinion, and I highly doubt anyone really spends much time dwelling on what kind of bike someone else rides, but when you're in mixed company and you casually mention that it's no biggie to drop 8 grand on a bike that you don't even need, realize that someone who works 40 hour weeks for 6 months to earn that much cash may resent that notion some, whether they want to or not. That is human nature.

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    Who cares how much money one spends on anything. everyone's circumstances are different, and what might be expensive for one, might be cheap for another. IF everyone only purchased things that were necessities, then none of us would be mountain biking. if you say that its a necessity, then racing must be your occupation and your only form of income. Otherwise none of us need bikes, of what ever cost unless it is solely for transport.

    So moral of the story, Let it be, and go and ride your bike.

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    I guess I was brought up with the idea that I should see the inherent value in something, and to try to use it to its full intended purpose. I do not hold with the argument that more bucks = more better, I feel that if we are honest about it, and as was touched on above, learning to ride around equipment limitations makes us more complete riders. Personally I find great satisfaction in using something to its fullest where I can, and identifying where I would benefit from upgrading to a better tool for the job. I am in no way advocating that we should all ride crap because we are not worth better.
    There is some truth to the argument that I am little more than a blood sucking leech feeding off the soft underbelly of rampant consumerism () when I get cheap deals on ebay for instance. If there was not this upgraditis so prevalent, these deals might not exist, but the majority of deals that I get are in clearance items from big internet retailers that reflect more the true worth of an item. If I buy last years model for a great price, then all good by me, there is very little difference in the parts, at least not enough to make an appreciable difference mostly... the big manufacturers will price things according to what they can get for them, which puts them out of most peoples' reach without some scrimping and saving. I usually ride something until it wears out or breaks, or until I find a need to upgrade to suit a riding style. I know several others that I ride with who feel the same way.
    Bottom line is, I do feel it is silly for people to drop so much cash on something they have no idea how to use, but that is their prerogative, as I said originally.
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    Being honest about your needs/Being happy with what you have

    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    For the most part I agree with that, however "buying skills" can also mask deficiencies and hamper development. For example, a driver designed to straighten a slice may keep a golfer in the fairway while allowing him/her to continue using a flawed swing instead of fixing the core problem. An XTR drivetrain may allow you to shift under the heaviest loads but that's not necessarily a good habit to get into unless you enjoy breaking chains.
    Agree in both points. It just proves that we can buy result, dropper post, high end components will give you much wider margin of errors. More experienced user can get away with less or cheaper parts because they have developed better timing and skills.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mimi1885 View Post
    Agree in both points. It just proves that we can buy result, dropper post, high end components will give you much wider margin of errors. More experienced user can get away with less or cheaper parts because they have developed better timing and skills.
    And how do they get those skills? Maybe by learning to ride around equipment deficiencies?!?
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    And how do they get those skills? Maybe by learning to ride around equipment deficiencies?!?
    Finally, thank you. That's the point. People would have the choice. If they want to save money now just buy entry level, spend a little more for mid range or max it out to high end. There's no rule that you must start with the entry level bike and not everyone need to start with entry level bike in order to get into the sport. There's no shame in buying more expensive bike, it's not silly for that individual. It may be silly for you to spend that kind of money but that does not make you cheap, it makes you frugal which is a good thing.

    I'd say that high end bikes and race bikes are different they may be at the same price point but they are different. Race bikes usually not very comfortable or suit for everyday trail riding for average riders especially noobs. That's why if the question come up in the beginners forum I'd advice against the idea. It's not wrong to spend the money on the high end stuff but it's not a good idea to buy the wrong bike. New riders may not know that and it's not their fault that's why we are all here posting comments, suggestion and opinions as the way to give back to the community.

    If your thread is about doing inventory of one's skill and determine what one's need, it'd be fine. There's no need to put a negative spin on that. I read your posts a few times, you seem to show good commonsense but unfortunately on most posts on this thread you've managed to slip in your disapproval of people spending their money as well as the assumption that people who buy expensive first bikes are not skilled and don't know what they are doing, these two points, I just don't agree.

    If I'm a new rider who just spent $6000 on my first bike, who are you to tell me that it's silly thing for me to do. I'm not your relative, BFF, or someone you ride with, you have no other ideas beside the fact that I don't know the difference in materials performance.

    Heck according to your op, you even gave the agreeing gesture to help seal the deal. To your credit, it was your trust worthy approval not the salesman trying to make a buck. You could have stood up to the lbs and told the guy hey, all you need is the $3000 bike or even less why spend extra on features he could not appreciate right now. I'd have more respect for you.

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by aedubber View Post

    Dru- Are you a life therapist ? What i dont need , i dont buy . Again , what i might need or dont need is probably different from your needs . If your too busy wondering what people need and dont need in life then i think you might need to get yourself checked out lol . Who cares ?
    You are being a nasty and unkind person. Why?

    As you know from my posts, I think that both sides of this have merit.

    Rocker asked us a question, about things we do or don't need.

    I answered because I am playing along.

    You, clearly, are not playing along.

    You have been hammering the guy mercilessly.

    Not cool.
    occasional cyclist

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    Quote Originally Posted by dru View Post
    You are being a nasty and unkind person. Why?

    As you know from my posts, I think that both sides of this have merit.

    Rocker asked us a question, about things we do or don't need.

    I answered because I am playing along.

    You, clearly, are not playing along.

    You have been hammering the guy mercilessly.

    Not cool.

    Thanks Drew, I appreciate the support I am happy in my opinions, and anyone's merciless hammering is fine, they are entitled to their views. What puckers my puckerer is when people make up their own opinions about what they think I am saying, and flame on that... that is a measure of some sort of insecurity as far as I am concerned...

    And to Mimi, I don't think I am wrong in my assumption that no one buying a first bike, no matter what the cost, can possibly know what they have between their legs! How could they know without some experience? However, you are correct that I played my part in sealing the deal at the bike shop by agreeing that carbon was indeed faster than alloy, and my bad for that. I rather thought that the guy was going to get the expensive one no matter what anyone said, and there was a misplaced element of wry humor in my actions... the bling factor was high and had bitten deep.
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  91. #91
    RideDirt
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    Thanks Drew, I appreciate the support I am happy in my opinions, and anyone's merciless hammering is fine, they are entitled to their views. What puckers my puckerer is when people make up their own opinions about what they think I am saying, and flame on that... that is a measure of some sort of insecurity as far as I am concerned...

    And to Mimi, I don't think I am wrong in my assumption that no one buying a first bike, no matter what the cost, can possibly know what they have between their legs! How could they know without some experience? However, you are correct that I played my part in sealing the deal at the bike shop by agreeing that carbon was indeed faster than alloy, and my bad for that. I rather thought that the guy was going to get the expensive one no matter what anyone said, and there was a misplaced element of wry humor in my actions... the bling factor was high and had bitten deep.
    Yes , im very insecure about something . YOU WIN

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