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  1. #1
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    Anabolic Steroids in Mountain Biking

    Curious... I have some friends I ride with here and there that use Anabolics for MTBing. They don't use them to get big like body builders but they use the ones that provide greatest endurance to strength benefits. I think I'm in pretty good shape but I can never keep up with these guys. I mean they are on fire and I'm just surprised at how fast they are and I'm talking about on climbs and slight inclines. We're not talking down hill.

    We've talked about this several times. They tell me that many people are now using anabolics in XC racing and Enduro racing. They don't look like body builders but they said there are all kinds of different anabolics. Some get you ripped, some get you big (Testosterone), some are great for endurance, some are great for strenght and some do a little of everything. I used to have college buddies who used for NCAA swimming and they didn't look like body builders either.

    I told my friends that I was gong to ask this question in here so I'm making good on that. Do many people use steroids on the trail? I was thinking of doing my first race soon too but I was a little deflated in thinking man, if all these people are using sauce they why even bother. I'll get taken to the woodshed in a race. I know in just about every competitive sport most are using something but I guess I never thought of it in MTBing.

    I supplement with creatine and a carbohydrate/caffine blend that I can really feel works well on the trail. I use a protein drink post ride but thats about all she wrote. It pales in comparison. Just curious if anabolics are used as much as I've been told, and if its just sort of hush hush at the moment.

  2. #2
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    If you, OP , want to go do a race then go do it. In my experience everyone is there for a good time and the encouragement is always well intentioned..

    If your friends juice to win a local races then they're very sad people with bigger self esteem issues to deal with.

    Oh... find other people to ride with who actually are there to enjoy themselves as well.

  3. #3
    Ride Fast Take Chances :)
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    Drugs are bad mkay.
    Not worth taking steroids as the long term repercussions can be pretty bad.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  4. #4
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    They're good if you want smaller balls!
    Heart problems, acne, etc. just make them more fun.

  5. #5
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    Using performance enhancing substances recognized as such by anti doping organizations is widely viewed as cheating. These organizations conduct random and systematic testing to detect doping, though it's very rare until you get up to higher level races. On occasion, amateurs test positive and get penalized. If you're not engaging in sanctioned races where doping is prohibited, there's nothing to stop you from doping as long as you obtain the substances legally.

    I kinda doubt your doping acquaintances aren't enjoying themselves, despite what driver bob implies.
    Do the math.

  6. #6
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    I have to wonder which anabolic would help with MTBs. Iím no expert on either, but Iím coming back to MTBs after several years in powerlifting where anabolics are quite common. I never used myself (Iím fine being genetically mediocre and would be embarrassed to lift my numbers if I was juicing) but know many people that do. Most are candid about the positives (of which there are many) and negatives (plenty there too). Granted these are elite lifters at the absolute pinnacle of the sport, and they simply wouldnít be there if they didnít cycle through various drugs.

    My two cents: if you want to be the best of the best, it may be necessary to supplement. For everyone else, it isnít worth the downsides when there are other things you could do (training, sleep, diet, coaching) that would give you better results.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by driver bob View Post
    If you, OP , want to go do a race then go do it. In my experience everyone is there for a good time and the encouragement is always well intentioned..

    If your friends juice to win a local races then they're very sad people with bigger self esteem issues to deal with.

    Oh... find other people to ride with who actually are there to enjoy themselves as well
    .
    ^^^ This. ^^^

    Can't believe anyone would risk the possible health side-effects, sad indeed.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    Not worth taking steroids as the long term repercussions can be pretty bad.
    This. There will be physiological consequences, no way around it.

    Why are we out in the woods riding bikes again?
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  9. #9
    I have Flat Pedal shame.
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    I am sure there are many benefits to steroids and/or epo and/or ebikes when trying to climb faster, but I usually just do Kodiak Cakes and a coconut water before a ride. If you really want to become a better rider (faster =/= better), then a skills clinic would be a better investment in the long run.
    We don't ride to add days to our life, we ride to add life to the days we have left here.

  10. #10
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    Your so called friends have lost the reason why we bike.

    I would stay away from them or you may be grouped with them by association.

  11. #11
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    Are you sure theyíre not messing with you? Anyone using drugs doesnít freely talk about it. I have a lot of cycling friends and donít know anyone using and bragging about it.


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  12. #12
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    It sounds like you are riding with a bunch of dirt-roadies
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  13. #13
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    What if we juiced....then hopped on our ebikes? Would we be even faster?
    Bicycles donít have motors or batteries.

    Ebikes are not bicycles

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbikej View Post
    What if we juiced....then hopped on our ebikes? Would we be even faster?
    And we can hack the ebikes and make them even faster.

    Harsh thread. As it should be.
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  15. #15
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    and to think, he originally posted it in the 29er bikes forum.

    I am perfectly happy with my mediocre self. dopers - sad.

  16. #16
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    Taking steroids is stupid.

  17. #17
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    Shouldn't this be in the "Nutrition" forum?
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  18. #18
    No known cure
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    I heard two sport class racers asking each other if they felt the effects of the T during the race (Ashland 12 Mile Super D) at the finish as the last racers were coming in. It was one of the most pathetic things I've heard while racing.
    Ripping trails and tipping ales

  19. #19
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    This might be the most pathetic thing I have read on this forum.

    EVER.

    In any event, in before the move...

  20. #20
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    The quest of something for nothing is pathetic and sad.

    Maybe the roids will shrivel their stones before they have the chance to reproduce and pass the mindset to the next generation....
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post
    This might be the most pathetic thing I have read on this forum.

    EVER.

    In any event, in before the move...
    too late it's already been moved once, out of 29ers...
    All the gear and no idea.

  22. #22
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    My $0.02...Not worth the health risks and so pathetic for someone to feel the need to resort to such things instead of good, old fashioned hard work and effort. But in this day and age of entitlement, where more and more people are wanting things easier and quicker, not surprised. I'd just find some new friends to be honest, just doesn't stand in my morals. What really pissed me off is when they start to dumb down trails so they can go faster racing for KOMs.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  23. #23
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    Phuck dopers. They ruin sports.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSU Alum View Post
    They're good if you want smaller balls!


    Faster and more comfy in the saddle? I'm in!
    I brake for stinkbugs

  25. #25
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    Save your balls and buy an ebike, the safe alternative to doping.
    By continuing to browse my posts, you agree to accept my use of cookies.

  26. #26
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    To win amateur races? But why?

  27. #27
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    I have no moral problem with it unless you are in a money paying/ Professional competition, I just know that it has real health consequences and imo isn't worth it for amateur sports where having fun is the name of the game. Understand that the results are temporary, but the effects on your endocrine system are usually permanent. Everyone I know that juiced, can no longer make their own T and has to be 'on' for the rest of their life.
    Also if you have a genetic predisposition for baldness lt will greatly accelerate hair loss.
    Good luck.

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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornfield View Post
    Save your balls and buy an ebike, the safe alternative to doping.
    You're recommending eDoping? I think that makes your balls smaller as well.

    jk guys, jk.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Remember, there's always quilting and knitting if pedalling becomes too tough.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcd46 View Post
    Shouldn't this be in the "Nutrition" forum?
    I'm thinking the Riding Passion forum, but it seems nobody can find it.
    Do the math.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    I'm thinking the Riding Passion forum, but it seems nobody can find it.
    that's only DJ

  31. #31
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    Anabolic Steroids do not offer any benefit in endurance, unless you're dieting to loose weight and trying to hold in to muscle tissue. They can give a slight improvement to sprinting.
    There are non hormonal drugs that can increase endurance but they are more dangerous than anabolics.

    Drug use is rampant in professional sports. Removing morality and opinion from the equation. Performance enhancing drugs only improve ability by 10% so if you choose to take them make sure you have maxed out your natural ability first and weight out the risk. Outside of a paycheck and having a appointed doctor monitor you. The risk is dumb IMHO.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by the-one1 View Post
    To win amateur races? But why?



    Bragging rights and free schwag of course, duh
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  33. #33
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    Who are they trying to impress? I mean, what must your self esteem be like, if YOU know you gained an advantage (over what or whom, I don't know), by doping?

    I just don't understand the mentality.
    "And crawling on the planet's face, some insects called, The Human Race..."

  34. #34
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    part of the reason I don't enjoy competition much as an adult. Too many people lose their minds in the drive to win.

    I'll sign up for the odd event here or there, but actual competition is never the goal. Just completion. Probably more often, I'll set up a ride myself or with a few other people that we do just for the sake of doing it. The experience is what drives it. "Competing" with a bunch of doped up middle aged men in lycra with insecurity problems isn't my idea of fun.

  35. #35
    U sayin' Bolt ?
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    Lance and those guys slept with heart monitors, so they could get up and spin before the junk killed them in their sleep. Even with specialist doctors and an unlimited budget, that stuff fudges you. Amateur dopers have to be the stupidest SOBs out there.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Bragging rights and free schwag of course, duh
    I mostly just go online to do my bragging about my race results and all the free schwag. I supplement with beer....the more I drink, the better I've been
    MERCY! MERCY! MERCY!

  37. #37
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    Steroids (T) will certainly help your friends; that's what the pro's were using and getting busted for not that long ago.

    Yup, it's cheating.
    Don't say what you mean, you might spoil your face...

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by mik_git View Post
    too late it's already been moved once, out of 29ers...
    Guilty... the EPO made me do it.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by driver bob View Post
    Guilty... the EPO made me do it.


    Well if you're going to dope to improve your cycling performance you might as well go for the good stuff.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Well if you're going to dope to improve your cycling performance you might as well go for the good stuff.
    Cycling be damned, I'm in it for the interwebs glory... got me from "mod" to "supermod" already.. My response times to reported posts are significantly faster than they used to be.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by driver bob View Post
    If you, OP , want to go do a race then go do it. In my experience everyone is there for a good time and the encouragement is always well intentioned..

    If your friends juice to win a local races then they're very sad people with bigger self esteem issues to deal with.

    Oh... find other people to ride with who actually are there to enjoy themselves as well.

    What he said and thank you for saying it!
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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    Anabolic Steroids do not offer any benefit in endurance, unless you're dieting to loose weight and trying to hold in to muscle tissue. They can give a slight improvement to sprinting.
    There are non hormonal drugs that can increase endurance but they are more dangerous than anabolics.

    Drug use is rampant in professional sports. Removing morality and opinion from the equation. Performance enhancing drugs only improve ability by 10% so if you choose to take them make sure you have maxed out your natural ability first and weight out the risk. Outside of a paycheck and having a appointed doctor monitor you. The risk is dumb IMHO.
    The statement about anabolics not offering any benefit to endurance isn't so, at all.

    Anabolics cover a wide range of substances. Some inflate your muscles, explosive strenth, cause acne, rage, etc... Every Pro bodybuilder uses D-Bal and things like that to look the way they do. This is one end of the spectrum. The other end of the steriod spectrum makes you lean, strong, high endurance, things like Winstrol. Celebrity men/ models use these to get their BF around 4-7% for that 'Brad Pitt' lean look. MMA fighters use something right in the middle for some explosive strength AND endurance.

    10% improvement might be accurate for someone highly trained. For someone with a job and kids but well trained, he difference can be huge, subjectively I'd say 30%.

    My knowledge on the topic is outdated. In the mid-90s I nearly died in a motorcycle accident and when I finally was released from the hospital I was skin and bones. I had always been skinny but now I just looked sickly. I was a poor college student with a small quantity of nutricious food available to me. I did 2 cautious cycles at a very low dose and gained about 35#s of muscle and kept all of it putting me at a healthy 175# 6' tall (at the time). It transformed my body, in a good way. However I was diagnosed with endocrine issues in my late 30s. Maybe it's related, or maybe it's just my genetics. I suspect the latter.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by the-one1 View Post
    To win amateur races? But why?
    The big picture is if you need to dope to win amature anything you'll never excel past that. Its just dumb.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    "Competing" with a bunch of doped up middle aged men in lycra with insecurity problems isn't my idea of fun.
    Lol!
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  45. #45
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    If you do juice use the suppository one's. They work better while riding.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  46. #46
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    So lame.
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  47. #47
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    I know a doper who rails against ebikers. The irony.....

  48. #48
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    Steroids + eBike = Strava Glory
    Use it, use it, use it while you still have it.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    Who are they trying to impress? I mean, what must your self esteem be like, if YOU know you gained an advantage (over what or whom, I don't know), by doping?

    I just don't understand the mentality.
    Playing Devil's Advocate here: What if you are not trying to impress anyone but to just be your physical best, particularly as you age? I don't dope but know plenty that do (none in cycling) and the fact is that it can allow a middle aged man, with proper training, to perform and recover like one much younger. Do you think that those that exercise for improvement are just 'doing it to impress people'? People's motivations are different obviously.

    Surely you should understand that getting your hormone levels back to a more youthful place is MORE healthy than the depressed hormone levels of the typical aging male? I at least hope that you do.

    My prediction is that in 30 years all males over about 50 will be given optimized hormones (which are just steroids) to ward off heat disease and other age related illnesses.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gasp4Air View Post
    Steroids + eBike = Strava Glory
    LOL. Can spot 'em a mile away with the lycra shorts and the shrunk testicles ehh?

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    Playing Devil's Advocate here: What if you are not trying to impress anyone but to just be your physical best, particularly as you age? I don't dope but know plenty that do (none in cycling) and the fact is that it can allow a middle aged man, with proper training, to perform and recover like one much younger. Do you think that those that exercise for improvement are just 'doing it to impress people'? People's motivations are different obviously.

    Surely you should understand that getting your hormone levels back to a more youthful place is MORE healthy than the depressed hormone levels of the typical aging male? I at least hope that you do.

    My prediction is that in 30 years all males over about 50 will be given optimized hormones (which are just steroids) to ward off heat disease and other age related illnesses.
    If our society continues to let the pharmaceutical companies sell us pills to try to fix the unhealthy living so many people partake in, you may be right. But people who live healthy lives instead of trying to fix what they have broken with a quick and easy cure won't go that route.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Remember, there's always quilting and knitting if pedalling becomes too tough.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    Playing Devil's Advocate here: What if you are not trying to impress anyone but to just be your physical best, particularly as you age? I don't dope but know plenty that do (none in cycling) and the fact is that it can allow a middle aged man, with proper training, to perform and recover like one much younger. Do you think that those that exercise for improvement are just 'doing it to impress people'? People's motivations are different obviously.

    In this case, sounds like the motivation is to cheat at racing.
    OP made it clear that race results are the reason he's considering it.

    Again: lame.
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  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    Playing Devil's Advocate here: What if you are not trying to impress anyone but to just be your physical best, particularly as you age? I don't dope but know plenty that do (none in cycling) and the fact is that it can allow a middle aged man, with proper training, to perform and recover like one much younger. Do you think that those that exercise for improvement are just 'doing it to impress people'? People's motivations are different obviously.
    Doesn't that go back to my point? Doesn't matter who else knows you gained an unnatural advantage. YOU'LL know. Does personal integrity, the sense of accomplishment and satisfaction for persevering not count for anything anymore?

    I'm trying NOT to make the eBike comparison, but I had a conversation with a long time friend over the weekend. I'm 57 and we have been friends since we were ten years old, so a long time...

    He and I have ridden bikes together off and on for years and he was telling me how he and another friend have been getting in 35 miles on weekdays after work. I'm going, "WTF???" and he grinned and told me he bought an ebike.
    "And crawling on the planet's face, some insects called, The Human Race..."

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    Playing Devil's Advocate here: What if you are not trying to impress anyone but to just be your physical best, particularly as you age? I don't dope but know plenty that do (none in cycling) and the fact is that it can allow a middle aged man, with proper training, to perform and recover like one much younger. Do you think that those that exercise for improvement are just 'doing it to impress people'? People's motivations are different obviously.

    Surely you should understand that getting your hormone levels back to a more youthful place is MORE healthy than the depressed hormone levels of the typical aging male? I at least hope that you do.

    My prediction is that in 30 years all males over about 50 will be given optimized hormones (which are just steroids) to ward off heat disease and other age related illnesses.




    I don't remember the details but a few years back I heard an interview with a doctor talking about performance enhancing drugs and how when administered correctly they can have several positive benefits and potentially no downsides, particularly for older people and certain diseases but also just in general.

    People do and take lots of legal things that make them feel and perform better, where do you draw the line? I'm not advocating anything at all but it was an interesting philosophical discussion.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    I don't remember the details but a few years back I heard an interview with a doctor talking about performance enhancing drugs and how when administered correctly they can have several positive benefits and potentially no downsides, particularly for older people and certain diseases but also just in general.

    People do and take lots of legal things that make them feel and perform better, where do you draw the line? I'm not advocating anything at all but it was an interesting philosophical discussion.
    My personal view is if you are doing it for yourself and there is no harm to somebody else, then more power to you.

    The problem is if you enter races or compete in anyway, then you are cheating. It would be no different than playing cards with a loaded deck or stealing someone's money in a game of Monopoly when they go use the bathroom.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by midwestmtb View Post
    It would be no different than playing cards with a loaded deck or stealing someone's money in a game of Monopoly when they go use the bathroom.
    it's less obvious if everybody raids the Monopoly bank for a few hundred dollars.... according to the interweb.

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    Well I think if everyone is doing it and the rules are explicit, then fine. It's problematic when people are doing it under the table under the assumption that "everyone else is doing" so I have to do it to compete that is problematic. Because the rules say you are not supposed to dope. So the race is a lie.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by midwestmtb View Post
    My personal view is if you are doing it for yourself and there is no harm to somebody else, then more power to you.

    The problem is if you enter races or compete in anyway, then you are cheating. It would be no different than playing cards with a loaded deck or stealing someone's money in a game of Monopoly when they go use the bathroom.


    I agree, unless "cheating" is standard fare (professional sports) and then it's not really cheating.

    And whether someone is cheating or not is just a matter of the law, funny how so many pro athletes have asthma now eh?

    Again not advocating, just musing. The guy on the show I heard was way smarter, more knowledgeable, and a much better communicator than me and raised a lot of interesting points that I can't convey. I wish I could link it.

    Even more contriversal was that he predicted that performance enhancing drugs, and drugs in general will become less and less relevant if/when genetic engineering becomes more commonplace.
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  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    You're recommending eDoping? I think that makes your balls smaller as well.

    jk guys, jk.
    If you're on an ebike they are probably already small or missing.
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    I suspect that at that point, we will have more information to create more nuanced racing classes. Just like in Motorsports, there are restrictions on the size of the engine, etc. I don't have a problem with drug or genetic manipulation if we know what the game is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    The statement about anabolics not offering any benefit to endurance isn't so, at all.

    Anabolics cover a wide range of substances. Some inflate your muscles, explosive strenth, cause acne, rage, etc... Every Pro bodybuilder uses D-Bal and things like that to look the way they do. This is one end of the spectrum. The other end of the steriod spectrum makes you lean, strong, high endurance, things like Winstrol. Celebrity men/ models use these to get their BF around 4-7% for that 'Brad Pitt' lean look. MMA fighters use something right in the middle for some explosive strength AND endurance.

    10% improvement might be accurate for someone highly trained. For someone with a job and kids but well trained, he difference can be huge, subjectively I'd say 30%.

    My knowledge on the topic is outdated. In the mid-90s I nearly died in a motorcycle accident and when I finally was released from the hospital I was skin and bones. I had always been skinny but now I just looked sickly. I was a poor college student with a small quantity of nutricious food available to me. I did 2 cautious cycles at a very low dose and gained about 35#s of muscle and kept all of it putting me at a healthy 175# 6' tall (at the time). It transformed my body, in a good way. However I was diagnosed with endocrine issues in my late 30s. Maybe it's related, or maybe it's just my genetics. I suspect the latter.
    I was in the Bodybuilding, power lifter world for years. And hung out in a gym that had a wide range of athletes. You're correct if you want strength, power or mass. Power and strength (sprints)anabolics give you an edge. EPO gw1516 and amphetamines are used for endurance, anabolics use is low dosage to maintain muscle. Too much and your going to have muscle that wont relax and this drains energy.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    Doesn't that go back to my point? Doesn't matter who else knows you gained an unnatural advantage. YOU'LL know. Does personal integrity, the sense of accomplishment and satisfaction for persevering not count for anything anymore?

    I'm trying NOT to make the eBike comparison, but I had a conversation with a long time friend over the weekend. I'm 57 and we have been friends since we were ten years old, so a long time...

    He and I have ridden bikes together off and on for years and he was telling me how he and another friend have been getting in 35 miles on weekdays after work. I'm going, "WTF???" and he grinned and told me he bought an ebike.

    We finally have a doping topic that's more universally condemned than e-bikes, woohoo!
    I thought for a while e-bikes were the worst hated topic but now we have anabolic doping in first place.

    Some of these Strava segment data leaderboards make me really wonder what the rider is taking before they climb a 10% dirt grade at 8.2 mph. A lot of e-bikers can't even climb it that fast.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    If our society continues to let the pharmaceutical companies sell us pills to try to fix the unhealthy living so many people partake in, you may be right. But people who live healthy lives instead of trying to fix what they have broken with a quick and easy cure won't go that route.
    Regardless of the actions of some Pharmaceutical Companies that are certainly behaving in an immoral manner, no matter how well you maintain your physical health, all of our bodies experience a significant decrease in health, commonly seen as reduced performance. This is fact and I assure you, Father Time waits for no one. We evolved to reach reproduction age and get our offspring going and simply weren't built to live the years that modern medicine and lifestyles permit now.

    Furthermore some unhealthy aspects of the world are just unescapable, such as long work hours in front of a computer.


    The reality is that 'juicing' in a controlled environment under a doctor's supervision is a healthier choice than just aging naturally. The goal is to to get your body to a natural healthy level. Understand that the healthy amounts of hormones that doctors aim for, are nothing but a fraction of what Bodybuilders use.

    The 'friends' mentioned in the 1st post at a bike race, were they middle aged men? Cause if so, they very well might be enjoying and talking about the benefits of a proper HRT (Hormone Replacement Therapy) program which is nothing but Testosterone prescribed by a doctor with the goal of obtaining around the 'average T levels for a 30ish age male'. I would not consider that 'cheating' personally but just maintaining your body.

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    BTW, Caffeine combined with aspirin provides an incredible athletic performance enhancement.

    Legally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    I don't remember the details but a few years back I heard an interview with a doctor talking about performance enhancing drugs and how when administered correctly they can have several positive benefits and potentially no downsides, particularly for older people and certain diseases but also just in general.

    People do and take lots of legal things that make them feel and perform better, where do you draw the line? I'm not advocating anything at all but it was an interesting philosophical discussion.

    Steroids increase the risk of cancer, especially prostate cancer. Cancer is a major downside. They also inhibit the immune system.

    When you are young, your cells are growing and renewing themselves much faster than when you are older. There is a reason why this process slows down: because if it kept up forever like it did when you were young, tissues would keep growing out of control and you'd have cancer all over the place. It's good that endurance and recovery are not as robust as when you were young, because that also lowers the cancer incidence. It's a good trade-off. Look at all the professional athletes that are dead before age 50, they pushed things too far and abused their bodies.
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  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    We finally have a doping topic that's more universally condemned than e-bikes, woohoo!
    I thought for a while e-bikes were the worst hated topic but now we have anabolic doping in first place.

    Some of these Strava segment data leaderboards make me really wonder what the rider is taking before they climb a 10% dirt grade at 8.2 mph. A lot of e-bikers can't even climb it that fast.


    Click on that riders profile, you'll probably see that they rode about 10,000 miles last year. I've ridden 10 minute climbs close to that grade @ 8mph and I'm pretty ancient and definitely no pro. Also I can't afford ped's.


    Anyway, nothing at all to do with silly electric bikes
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  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by the-one1 View Post
    To win amateur races? But why?
    Doping in Cat 2/Sport class. A race that you paid to enter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    BTW, Caffeine combined with aspirin provides an incredible athletic performance enhancement.

    Legally.

    You forgot Ephedrine. That's what a lot of runners use (not sure about cyclists): caffeine, aspirin, ephedrine. Personally I just use it for hayfever; I briefly tried it for biking and it didn't seem to do anything.
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  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    Playing Devil's Advocate here: What if you are not trying to impress anyone but to just be your physical best, particularly as you age? I don't dope but know plenty that do (none in cycling) and the fact is that it can allow a middle aged man, with proper training, to perform and recover like one much younger. Do you think that those that exercise for improvement are just 'doing it to impress people'? People's motivations are different obviously.

    Surely you should understand that getting your hormone levels back to a more youthful place is MORE healthy than the depressed hormone levels of the typical aging male? I at least hope that you do.

    My prediction is that in 30 years all males over about 50 will be given optimized hormones (which are just steroids) to ward off heat disease and other age related illnesses.
    Unless you're in an open class, like in many single speed classes, you line up with peers in your own age group. The last open class single speed race I raced, I pulled second. First place was an 18 year old; I was 43.
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  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    BTW, Caffeine combined with aspirin provides an incredible athletic performance enhancement.

    Legally.
    I never drink coffee or soda, but half a cup of coffee before a morning race makes me feel like Superman. I mainly drink it because I'm not a morning person. I have to be drug to the starting line. Same thing with surfing. I hate the morning session.
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  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post


    Anyway, nothing at all to do with silly electric bikes
    You're right, but my buddy on the eBike's attitude was that if no one could tell he was on an E, then it shouldn't be an issue.

    Sorry, I forgot to finish the tie in.
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    Oh crap, I've been doing this all wrong. I've been downing a couple stouts before the ride to load up on carbs while I should have been juicing with steroids. Well, this explains a lot.
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  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    BTW, Caffeine combined with aspirin provides an incredible athletic performance enhancement.

    Legally.
    + ephedrine = an ECA stack. That's horrible for you too.

    One of my best friends' younger brother is a former Mr. Junior Canada. He now has no left pec. Coincidence? Same as the endocrine issues diagnosed in your 30s (which, by the way, I am truly sad to hear about and hope things are okay with you).

    It's not about cheating to me (although I am not saying this is NOT an issue as well). It's more about living as long a life as I can to enjoy it with my loved ones. Being at the head of the pack of my biking buddies to brag about it over post-ride beers is about the most effed up justification I can think of for assuming the associated risks.

    To me at least.

    This is obviously a very controversial topic among the lifters. But for non-professional mountain biking? For real? It's shocking to me this discussion is even taking place.

    PS - not to be melodramatic, and I obviously appreciate that not all PEDs are the same, but the guys I know who have entered the fray all say the same thing - there is never any turning back...

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    I agree, unless "cheating" is standard fare (professional sports) and then it's not really cheating.

    And whether someone is cheating or not is just a matter of the law, funny how so many pro athletes have asthma now eh?

    Again not advocating, just musing. The guy on the show I heard was way smarter, more knowledgeable, and a much better communicator than me and raised a lot of interesting points that I can't convey. I wish I could link it.

    Even more contriversal was that he predicted that performance enhancing drugs, and drugs in general will become less and less relevant if/when genetic engineering becomes more commonplace.
    Is this guy part of the mainstream medical community?

    Is he even a real doctor?

    Unless there are verifiable and repeatable studies, then I'd be very wary of such claims.
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  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    Is this guy part of the mainstream medical community?

    Is he even a real doctor?

    Unless there are verifiable and repeatable studies, then I'd be very wary of such claims.



    Yeah, he had credentials and I'm sure if I could remember or find a link many would agree that the guy made a lot of sense. Like I said I'm not representing him well.

    I'm not saying ped's are a good thing in most circumstances and as used now most have many dangerous side effects, but what if they could be safely used to cure certain diseases, or midigate detrimental aging effects, or enhance a person's quality of life while at the same time improving their athletic performance? Many legal and thus respectable substances are used for those purposes now.
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  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Yeah, he had credentials and I'm sure if I could remember or find a link many would agree that the guy made a lot of sense. Like I said I'm not representing him well.

    I'm not saying ped's are a good thing in most circumstances and as used now most have many dangerous side effects, but what if they could be safely used to cure certain diseases, or midigate detrimental aging effects, or enhance a person's quality of life while at the same time improving their athletic performance? Many legal and thus respectable substances are used for those purposes now.
    Using PEDs to give someone a competitive advantage is bull schitt, period. Using the same substance for legitimate medical purposes is a different discussion. The whole argument that is okay if "everyone else in the era was doing it" is bogus.

    Athletic achievements attained with PEDs are fraud. Lance Armstrong may very well have been the most gifted road cyclist, but thanks to his doping we will never really know. Pretty sad. All we really know is that guy is a royal dick.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    I have to be "drug" to the starting line.

    A fun bit of phraseology for this thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    In this case, sounds like the motivation is to cheat at racing.
    OP made it clear that race results are the reason he's considering it.

    Again: lame.
    Great responses by everyone.

    But, just to set the record straight, I (op) never said I was "considering" using drugs to race. What I said, or rather meant was: what is the point to enter my first race if several people are using gear. My motivation is to see where I would stack up against people. My intention is not to win because I know I'm not the best climber, but I would like to know just how bad or how good I would do. However, if many are using then will I get an accurate picture, no way. I might just enter anyway just to see how I would do.

    I ride because I love to ride and I love nature. My original question was asked just to see if its really prevelant as I've heard it is. I know its being used by hollywood actors, MMA, NFL, NBA, boxing, Swimning, cycling but MTBing? I was a bit taken back by that.

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    You need to find other people to ride with, since your 'friends' sound like total douchebags. Some people just need to feel superior to others in any way possible--doesn't matter if it's weightlifting, biking, running, etc.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    Using PEDs to give someone a competitive advantage is bull schitt, period. Using the same substance for legitimate medical purposes is a different discussion. The whole argument that is okay if "everyone else in the era was doing it" is bogus.

    Athletic achievements attained with PEDs are fraud. Lance Armstrong may very well have been the most gifted road cyclist, but thanks to his doping we will never really know. Pretty sad. All we really know is that guy is a royal dick.


    You think Lance was alone? For every superstar busted for cheating there are dozens of others who are still heros to millions.


    I'm not condoning cheating or ped's as they are now known and currently used in any way, you misunderstood me if that's what you think.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    Doesn't that go back to my point? Doesn't matter who else knows you gained an unnatural advantage. YOU'LL know. Does personal integrity, the sense of accomplishment and satisfaction for persevering not count for anything anymore?
    Unfortunately, these days, not a lot of any of that. Just seeing what people post to FB or Strava, context doesn't matter. Posting race results is the worst. Get a Cat3 3rd out of 3 people? Don't put it in context and it ends up being the same as getting a Cat1 1st out of 30.

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. 14 View Post
    Great responses by everyone.

    But, just to set the record straight, I (op) never said I was "considering" using drugs to race. What I said, or rather meant was: what is the point to enter my first race if several people are using gear. My motivation is to see where I would stack up against people. My intention is not to win because I know I'm not the best climber, but I would like to know just how bad or how good I would do. However, if many are using then will I get an accurate picture, no way. I might just enter anyway just to see how I would do.

    I ride because I love to ride and I love nature. My original question was asked just to see if its really prevelant as I've heard it is. I know its being used by hollywood actors, MMA, NFL, NBA, boxing, Swimning, cycling but MTBing? I was a bit taken back by that.



    Just ride and enter races as you please, I think you're way overestimating how many amateurs are using ped's. You'll have fun and see how you stack up just fine without juicing. More training is the best way to improve.
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  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    Regardless of the actions of some Pharmaceutical Companies that are certainly behaving in an immoral manner, no matter how well you maintain your physical health, all of our bodies experience a significant decrease in health, commonly seen as reduced performance. This is fact and I assure you, Father Time waits for no one. We evolved to reach reproduction age and get our offspring going and simply weren't built to live the years that modern medicine and lifestyles permit now.

    Furthermore some unhealthy aspects of the world are just unescapable, such as long work hours in front of a computer.


    The reality is that 'juicing' in a controlled environment under a doctor's supervision is a healthier choice than just aging naturally. The goal is to to get your body to a natural healthy level. Understand that the healthy amounts of hormones that doctors aim for, are nothing but a fraction of what Bodybuilders use.

    The 'friends' mentioned in the 1st post at a bike race, were they middle aged men? Cause if so, they very well might be enjoying and talking about the benefits of a proper HRT (Hormone Replacement Therapy) program which is nothing but Testosterone prescribed by a doctor with the goal of obtaining around the 'average T levels for a 30ish age male'. I would not consider that 'cheating' personally but just maintaining your body.
    Yes, as we age we see a significant decrease in health and reduced performance but I'm not sure I believe "that 'juicing' in a controlled environment under a doctor's supervision is a healthier choice than just aging naturally". Is it worth the tradeoff for whatever the downside is? Maybe, but maybe not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    part of the reason I don't enjoy competition much as an adult. Too many people lose their minds in the drive to win.
    Agreed!!! This is part of the reason I thought about not entering a race. It's like what the... We're supposed to have a good time, good clean and fun competition is my idea for a race. The accomplishement, but it seems people get all crazy to win.

    Seeing the comments about caffeine and Ephedrine and asperine sounds pretty messed up and just as dumb as using Lance Anavarstrong. That sounds like a heart attack. Oh I know, let me get my heart rate going at 180 bpm with this "eca" stack standing still and then get my heart running faster while I pedal up this incline. Ok... said the heart that exploded. What genius came up this dumb idea? Might as well use meth on the trail.

    I see some guys that are not on eBikes that I see racing hills like a cheetah and how I have to ask, "Is this dude getting by with a little help with his friend Stan?" Stanozonal, or whatever its called. I remember this steroid name because it was the one Ben Johnson was caught cheating with at the Olympics in track.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    The 'friends' mentioned in the 1st post at a bike race, were they middle aged men? Cause if so, they very well might be enjoying and talking about the benefits of a proper HRT (Hormone Replacement Therapy) program which is nothing but Testosterone prescribed by a doctor with the goal of obtaining around the 'average T levels for a 30ish age male'. I would not consider that 'cheating' personally but just maintaining your body.
    If these are middle aged men and on testosterone prescribed by a doctor, it's still cheating. There is a reason there are age groups in most race series. It's a way to level the playing field and race people with similar disadvantages that happen with age. One of those disadvantages is lower testosterone levels. Now if your middle aged and on testosterone treatment and want to race, race in the open class. That might even be borderline not moral, but at a minimum don't enter age specific race groups.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. 14 View Post
    Agreed!!! This is part of the reason I thought about not entering a race. It's like what the... We're supposed to have a good time, good clean and fun competition is my idea for a race. The accomplishement, but it seems people get all crazy to win.


    Again, this is almost exclusively on internet forums. At actual races I've been in the people are friendly, helpful, and usually enjoy healthy lifestyles. The really fast guys (mostly pros) are fast because they train smart with a lot of volume.
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  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gasp4Air View Post
    Steroids + eBike = Strava Glory
    I load up on beer and cheetos to get an advantage on Strava.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. 14 View Post
    Great responses by everyone.

    But, just to set the record straight, I (op) never said I was "considering" using drugs to race. What I said, or rather meant was: what is the point to enter my first race if several people are using gear. My motivation is to see where I would stack up against people. My intention is not to win because I know I'm not the best climber, but I would like to know just how bad or how good I would do. However, if many are using then will I get an accurate picture, no way. I might just enter anyway just to see how I would do.

    I ride because I love to ride and I love nature. My original question was asked just to see if its really prevelant as I've heard it is. I know its being used by hollywood actors, MMA, NFL, NBA, boxing, Swimning, cycling but MTBing? I was a bit taken back by that.
    Dig it - thanks for clarifying!
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  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    I load up on beer and cheetos to get an advantage on Strava.
    Wanna race?
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
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  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post

    My prediction is that in 30 years all males over about 50 will be given optimized hormones (which are just steroids) to ward off heat disease and other age related illnesses.
    According to some, it will be that, and ebikes, pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain.



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    You can't let the choices that others make color your decision to race or not. Training and racing is about the process and also self-exploration.

    That said, I am sure some do dope. Even at lower categories.
    They dope in the same percentage that the general population does.
    We take medication for blood pressure, diabetes, etc.- Instead of choosing to eat right.
    We take testosterone because we are getting old and our doc tells us it is the way to go.
    We take pain meds long term instead of healing the root cause of our pain.
    We are a drug society.
    Docs, insurance companies, and big pharma want it that way.

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    I've wondered about taking some anabolic steroids to offset the muscle wasting that comes with age (70). I would like more strength and endurance than I seem to be getting with a pretty aggressive exercise program.

    I talked to a friend who is an MD with a PhD in pharmacology about this. She says that some steroids would indeed restore some muscle mass and improve fitness. But, it comes with a big risk. Almost everyone of us has protocancers and even indolent unnoticed cancers by my age. Many of them are "hormone mediated" and can be triggered big time by steroid supplements. I already have an indolent but destructive non-Hodgkins lymphoma and don't need another death sentence.

    By the way, I've taken corticosteriods too many times dealing with lymphoma driven asthma and the side effects are pretty bad.
    My mantra: Hike, Bike, Paddle, Ski

  93. #93
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    TRT for those over 35. The next cyclists....

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by knutso View Post
    Lance and those guys slept with heart monitors, so they could get up and spin before the junk killed them in their sleep. Even with specialist doctors and an unlimited budget, that stuff fudges you. Amateur dopers have to be the stupidest SOBs out there.
    The rumors are just as stupid. Dumping blood (blood donation) is what you do when RBC gets too high. There's no drug the antidote is to wake up in the middle of the night to exercise.

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post

    The 'friends' mentioned in the 1st post at a bike race, were they middle aged men? Cause if so, they very well might be enjoying and talking about the benefits of a proper HRT (Hormone Replacement Therapy) program which is nothing but Testosterone prescribed by a doctor with the goal of obtaining around the 'average T levels for a 30ish age male'. I would not consider that 'cheating' personally but just maintaining your body.
    That's fine if you're a 30ish age male and actually have low T, but if you're in the mid 50's and racing in the 50+ age group I consider it cheating. Most of us in our 40's and 50's don't have the same amount of testosterone as we did when we were younger, like someone else mentioned that's why we have age groups in the first place.
    Niner Jet 9 RDO, Scalpel 29, XTC 650b, 04 Stumpjumper FSR Pro, Trek Rigid SS - No suspension, no gears....no problem

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    Quote Originally Posted by joshtee View Post
    If these are middle aged men and on testosterone prescribed by a doctor, it's still cheating. There is a reason there are age groups in most race series. It's a way to level the playing field and race people with similar disadvantages that happen with age. One of those disadvantages is lower testosterone levels. Now if your middle aged and on testosterone treatment and want to race, race in the open class. That might even be borderline not moral, but at a minimum don't enter age specific race groups.
    This is how lance "got away" with HRT having one testicle. Not all men have low testosterone in their 50s, some have higher levels. Only some men drop due to other health factors. . The argument isnt is having natural levels cheating. But naturally if you overtrain you tank your natural production. This doesn't happen on TRT.

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbmb65 View Post
    According to some, it will be that, and ebikes, pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain.



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    Did you just throw a Butthole Surfers line in there?
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Remember, there's always quilting and knitting if pedalling becomes too tough.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    Did you just throw a Butthole Surfers line in there?

    And my time is a piece of wax falling on a termite
    And it's choking on the splinters.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

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    You guys just won the internet!

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    Did you just throw a Butthole Surfers line in there?
    Lol. I wondered if anybody would catch it. Good call.


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