Sudar's Second Frame-- Gravel/Commuter- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Sudar's Second Frame-- Gravel/Commuter

    Just about ready to cut tube on my second frame. It's a gravel/commuter/hooligan bike. This bike needs to go to work, to the grocery store, ride paved trails with the kids, do an all day ride and bunny hop curbs. If I'm honest, all my bikes get ridden like a trials bike on occasion. Stuff happens. I've found myself in the vert bowl at the skatepark on my Litespeed road bike, clipped in, in full spandex (mostly because the skater kids said I wouldn't do it.)

    My commute is around ten miles (one way) of pavement, but often turns into thirty miles on the way home if the weather is nice. I also have lots of options for dirt that will get me home as well.

    It's got to fit two full size water bottles, but still have crotch clearance, so that's the reason for the bent DT. It also needs to clear fenders. That's why the chainstays are a little longer and the fork A to C is a little higher.

    I kind of know my way around mountain bike geometry, but I don't know much about road bikes. I only road bike when it's too muddy to mountain bike. I have only ever owned one road bike (early 2000's LiteSpeed) so my fit is based loosely on that riding position. I haven't ridden as many road or gravel bikes as I would have liked, but I don't have any friends that road bike to borrow bikes from, so let me know if my geometry is way off base. One frame building friend looked at my print (he is very old school is his building approach) and described it as not very snappy. Feedback is welcome.
    TT is 28.6mm. DT and ST are 34.9mm. All are 9/6/9 Construction is fillet brazed.
    I never really had the $$$ to start this build, so the components are mostly from my parts bin or the local classifieds. With the exception of the dropper post. It's the single most expensive part on the bike.
    I needed a 150mm KS external post to work with a shift cable because I modified the left Tiagra hydro brifter to actuate the dropper. Drivetrain is 1x10. I'm running a Deore 9 speed rear derailleur, which I think should work with the ten speed road shifter. The cable pull ratios are the same, so we'll see. Print is attached.
    OrangeCremeCycle.pdfSudar's Second Frame-- Gravel/Commuter-orangecremecycle.jpg

  2. #2
    pvd
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    1. The front end is 20mm short given your fit.

    2. You're bending the down tube because you are over driving the top tube and want water bottles. This is silly. Raise the top tube slightly to eliminate the down tube bend.

    3. The chainstays are enormous. It's going to drive like a truck. Most bikes in this catagory would have a 420mm stay at most. Bend or offset your seat tube and you will find more room.

    4. If it were me, I'd bump up the DT diameter and shrink the top tube diameter.

    5. 110mm fork on this is nice to see on other's bikes. https://www.peterverdone.com/100x12-...-have-existed/

    6. The seat tube is too long.

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    Tiagra 10 speed hydro shifters are actually on the 11 speed pull so you'll need the matching Tiagra "10" or any 11 speed road derailleur.

    74 seat angle with a zero-offset dropper might be rough on your arms if you're covering distance and staying seated.

    In general I think the stays are fine, but with your head angle and described use I think shorter might be better. What width bars are planning to run?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pvd View Post
    Most bikes in this catagory would have a 420mm stay at most.
    Definitely not true.

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    The bars are 440mm Salsa Cow Chippers.

    Thanks for the tip on the Tiagra shifters. They were one of my classified ad used purchases because that was the only way I could afford hydro brifters. I guess if I had gotten any other 10 speed road shifter it would have worked with the 9 speed mountain derailleur.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pvd View Post
    1. The front end is 20mm short given your fit.
    Just to make sure I'm understanding correctly: You are suggesting to move the front center out another 20mm and them bring the bars back with a shorter stem?

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    Sudar's Second Frame-- Gravel/Commuter-slolo.jpg

    Your design is pretty close to my last gravel frame so you should be able to fit two bottles on the down tube.

    (70 ha, 74 sa, 38 fo, 91 trail, 91 bb drop, 452 stays (42-18 magic gear), 614 stack, 436 reach)

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    pvd
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsudar View Post
    Just to make sure I'm understanding correctly: You are suggesting to move the front center out another 20mm and them bring the bars back with a shorter stem?
    The bars are positioned relative to your fit from the bottom bracket. Based on what you've said, you have some real work to do to arrive at a fit worth building around.

    Yes, I'm saying that your front center is at least 20mm short if you're compensating with such a long stem. A well fit bike shouldn't have over a 50mm stem without a very special reason.

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    That seems like a tight fit for fenders, and with the extra low seat stays you're going to need to rig up an extra set of fender stays.

    The usual warnings about fenders and knobbies apply too.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by pvd View Post
    1. The front end is 20mm short given your fit.

    2. You're bending the down tube because you are over driving the top tube and want water bottles. This is silly. Raise the top tube slightly to eliminate the down tube bend.

    3. The chainstays are enormous. It's going to drive like a truck. Most bikes in this catagory would have a 420mm stay at most. Bend or offset your seat tube and you will find more room.

    4. If it were me, I'd bump up the DT diameter and shrink the top tube diameter.

    5. 110mm fork on this is nice to see on other's bikes. https://www.peterverdone.com/100x12-...-have-existed/

    6. The seat tube is too long.
    I like this advice, and generally agree.
    I'd get rid of the seat mast, too.

    This looks like roadie fit dropped on top of mtb geo. Your weight distribution and steering might not be quite what you'd want. The drops position has your weight more forward than i'd prefer for the geo (maybe shorten the chainstays or raise the bars?), and it's going to want to be paired with a wider handlebar and/or something with some flare, thanks to the high-ish trail.

    What tires do you intend to run? What chainline?


    Commuter/gravel/road combo frames are the wild west. There's lots of ways to do it right (or wrong), depending on where your priorities lie.



    Sudar's Second Frame-- Gravel/Commuter-3e3133fb84882bfb8b012365cf39276c.jpg
    "Things that are complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple."
    Mikhail Kalashnikov

  11. #11
    pvd
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    This is one of my recent bikes, bleeding edge all-road. It may have a bit more of a dirt bias than what you are looking for but if you're running drop bars, everything will suck. I tripically run it with flat bars and commute across the city of SF on it and it dominates everything.

    Bi-planes are the future | Peter Verdone Designs

    Airspeeder! | Peter Verdone Designs


  12. #12
    pvd
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    Commuter/gravel/road combo frames are the wild west. There's lots of ways to do it right (or wrong), depending on where your priorities lie.
    Disagree. Bike design is bike design but most commercial and custom builders are totally clueless about that. Almost everything I see in this segment is novice work.

  13. #13
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    now this is the kind of road bike i could be down with.

    Sudar's Second Frame-- Gravel/Commuter-pvd_1898.jpg

    the new evil (that sports somewhat similar numbers) also intrigues:

    Sudar's Second Frame-- Gravel/Commuter-evil-bikes-chamois-hagar-release-8.jpg

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by pvd View Post
    Disagree. Bike design is bike design but most commercial and custom builders are totally clueless about that. Almost everything I see in this segment is novice work.
    ???

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