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Thread: Head tube rings

  1. #1
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    Head tube rings

    Do you attach head tube rings prior to welding the head tube into the frame, or do you ever do it after the fact?

    If I silver braze the rings on first, how much room do I need between the ring and the nearest tig weld to keep from re-melting the silver? Should I just tig weld the rings on instead of brazing them? I plan to experiment on scrap before doing the real frame, but I'm curious to get yall's advice too.

    Thanks,
    Trevor

  2. #2
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    I put them on last, with silver.

    I prefer Paragon head tubes for mtb frames. They're faster, barely cost more, and come out really nice.
    "Things that are complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple."
    Mikhail Kalashnikov

  3. #3
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    Yeah, I've used the Paragon head tubes on all my frames until now, but this new frame has a 340mm head tube, which is way longer than anything they stock.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor Schweald View Post
    Yeah, I've used the Paragon head tubes on all my frames until now, but this new frame has a 340mm head tube, which is way longer than anything they stock.
    Wow, that's a lot of head tube!

    Road bike for a >6'6 dude?

    My road bikes are built around 405mm CX length forks to help keep the head tube more reasonable... But that extra inch doesn't mean much in your situation I guess.
    "Things that are complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple."
    Mikhail Kalashnikov

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    Yeah, I'm 6'8" with disproportionately long legs. It's going to be good to experiment with bikes that actually fit me.

  6. #6
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    At that length, you don't actually need the ring anyway! Head tube is almost as long as the fork!

    Definitely post some pictures of this monster when you're done!

    -Walt

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    At that length, you don't actually need the ring anyway! Head tube is almost as long as the fork!

    Definitely post some pictures of this monster when you're done!

    -Walt
    Just to confirm- you would still install a reinforcement ring at the bottom, right?


    I'm interested in what trevor creates too. My own dabbling with building unusually large/small road bikes has lead me to believe that there's a lot of shitty road bikes running around. Riding (mostly unremarkable) road geo that really fits me has been an eye-opener.
    "Things that are complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple."
    Mikhail Kalashnikov

  8. #8
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    No, I wouldn't use a ring at all. In the era of big head tubes, ovalizing one is pretty much impossible. Unless the rider is 400 pounds or it's a tandem or something, there's no reason to bother. I only use rings for decoration if a customer requests them.

    I guess it does depend on the head tube. I typically use 1.25mm wall 44mm ID head treated stuff that is pretty much unkillable. If you're using those old S3 headtubes that True Temper used to make that are like 0.8mm or something, different story.

    -Walt

    -W

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    I typically use 1.25mm wall 44mm ID head treated stuff that is pretty much unkillable.
    Ahh that makes sense. I've only done thin wall 1.125 head tubes on road bikes.
    "Things that are complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple."
    Mikhail Kalashnikov

  10. #10
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    As requested: photos

    Here's a picture of the finished frame, complete with super-duper long head tube:
    Head tube rings-055.jpg

    Unfortunately, the draw screw on my Park head tube reamer handle isn't long enough, so I'm trying to figure out how to extend it. I think I'm going to make a angle-iron fixture to carefully weld an extension onto the end.

    Here's the bikecad if you're curious
    Head tube rings-runabout-doodeedoo.jpg

  11. #11
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    The threaded part is some goofy threading but you *might* be able to find a coupling nut that would fit?

    I think that beats anything I've ever built on head tube length.

    -Walt

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    I have an acme threaded coupling nut and some threaded rod on order from McMaster, and that's definitely going to be my first method before I try butt-welding a couple of rods together.

  13. #13
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    Downtube "decal" in the drawing = win.
    I make bikes. www.feldybikes.com

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    That thing is awesome! Can you even call it a front "triangle"?

    I also really hope you make that downtube decal for real on the frame.

    Nice work on making a bike too, btw.

    Do you have access to a lathe? It only took me about an hour to make an arbor and bull nose dead center so that I could ream/face the head tube on the lathe using the Park cutters. If the lathe has more than about 18" between centers it should be a go.
    Myth Cycles handbuilt bike frames
    Durango, CO
    http://www.mythcycles.com

  15. #15
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    Your head tube is almost as long as your chainstays!!!


    I hope you'll post up some impressions on the completed bike. I find that stuff fascinating.
    "Things that are complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple."
    Mikhail Kalashnikov

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    I definitely plan to follow up with impressions on the ride! It'll definitely be unlike anything I've ever ridden. Here's my current, maxed-out XXL Surly Ogre (they don't make the XXL any more):
    Head tube rings-ogre-capture.jpg

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor Schweald View Post
    Here's a picture of the finished frame, complete with super-duper long head tube:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	055.jpg 
Views:	27 
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ID:	1235767

    Unfortunately, the draw screw on my Park head tube reamer handle isn't long enough, so I'm trying to figure out how to extend it. I think I'm going to make a angle-iron fixture to carefully weld an extension onto the end.

    Here's the bikecad if you're curious
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	runabout doodeedoo.JPG 
Views:	22 
Size:	44.0 KB 
ID:	1235775
    You're going to put a water bottle on the Head Tube - right?

    Eric
    If I don't make an attempt, how will I know if it will work?

  18. #18
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    Yes, a water bottle on the head tube would be the finishing touch.

    As an aside, why such crazy short chainstays? You're practically sitting on the rear axle.

    -Walt

  19. #19
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    Good excuse to build tooling for reaming/facing head tubes on the lathe if you've got one.
    Best hour I've ever spent getting that stuff set up.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    Yes, a water bottle on the head tube would be the finishing touch.

    As an aside, why such crazy short chainstays? You're practically sitting on the rear axle.

    -Walt
    Ignorance, I guess. Also, that's the chainstay length with the dropouts all the way forward. This frame is a geometry experiment/practice project, so if it's a little bit too much of a wheelie machine, oh well. I need to practice my wheelies anyway.

  21. #21
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    Anything particular I need to know about setting up a lathe to ream head tubes? Could someone share pictures of their setup? I'm not a great machinist, but working on it.

    I'm imagining I just need a live center on the tailstock end with a large enough cone to support the tube. Do I need any kind of pilot for the cutter on the headstock end, or is the cutter itself sufficiently self-centering? What about the rest of the bike? do I just brace it against the bed of the lathe while the reaming operation is happening?

    Cool. I'll do some head scratching and some drawing and see what I come up with.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor Schweald View Post
    Anything particular I need to know about setting up a lathe to ream head tubes? Could someone share pictures of their setup? I'm not a great machinist, but working on it.

    I'm imagining I just need a live center on the tailstock end with a large enough cone to support the tube. Do I need any kind of pilot for the cutter on the headstock end, or is the cutter itself sufficiently self-centering? What about the rest of the bike? do I just brace it against the bed of the lathe while the reaming operation is happening?

    Cool. I'll do some head scratching and some drawing and see what I come up with.
    Use a drawbar if you install the reamer in the cone of the headstock
    Use a centering cone on the tailstock, could be a drillchuck
    Use a slow speed obviously and lubricant
    Some tape around the headtube to protect paint isn't a bad idea
    It's not always necessary to ream the ID, so a two piece cutter is preferable, then you can use an arbor instead of the cutter and just square the end
    If you retract the headtube never ever let the frame loose contact with the cone on the tailstock or you'll loose the frame

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