"Handmade Bicycle" designation based on what criteria?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    "Handmade Bicycle" designation based on what criteria?

    Obviously the products of a little shop where one person does all the work from tube selection to painting can be considerded handmade, I guess. What about somebody like Jeff Jones, who is now outsourcing to Merlin? Are the Merlin made Jones frames not just as much "handmade" as a Jones frames where Jones himself held the torch?

    Is it the willingness to customize for a client that makes one manufacturers products "handmade" as opposed to...as opposed to what? They are all handmade are they not?

    Do the NAHBS organizers publish their criteria? I am not trying to be a smartass, I am just curious about what their definition is.
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  2. #2
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    Do you mean industry definition, or NAHBS definition?
    No longer member of the bike industry nor society, so don't hassle me.

  3. #3
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    I think that Don Walker is the only one that seems to know. I've tried to make sence of it, but it makes no sence.

    The show is full of foreign spec, mass produced stuff mixed in with everything else. I started asking questions, so he had me banned from the other forum.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    I think that Don Walker is the only one that seems to know. I've tried to make sence of it, but it makes no sence.

    The show is full of foreign spec, mass produced stuff mixed in with everything else. I started asking questions, so he had me banned from the other forum.
    Who is Don Walker, and what other forum are you referring to? Will I be banned just for asking?
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by disease
    Who is Don Walker
    This is the question I'm still trying to figure out , from what I understnad he doesnt even build his own bikes .
    He previously asked me to build some cross frame for him
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  6. #6
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    I went to NAHBS a couple years ago and Merlin had a booth.

    If it is made by hand, it is "handmade". If it is made by a robot or some other machinery, it is not "handmade".

    If it is not made by hand or made in North America, that doesn't mean that people won't want to see it at NAHBS.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeanutButterBreath
    If it is made by hand, it is "handmade". If it is made by a robot or some other machinery, it is not "handmade".
    I was so confused until you provided your succinct answer to my question. Handmade means people made it without use of any machinery whatsoever. I get it now. Tubes are mitered with flint tools and joined with clay lugs fired over coals.
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  8. #8
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    Ah, fer cryin` out loud- what`s the record for number of posts in a row on this forum with no conflicts, flaming, or sarcasm? Two?

  9. #9
    DWF
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    You guys need to reconsider this. Regardless of anybody's personal feelings about Don Walker, NAHBs is one of the best things to ever happen to small and custom builders and he made it happen. A lot of people talked about making it happen, but HE actually did more than talk. The interest was so high in small builders that the fire marshal had to stop letting people in the building today due to overcrowding. You guys who want to make a living framebuilding should THINK about that.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by disease
    I was so confused until you provided your succinct answer to my question. Handmade means people made it without use of any machinery whatsoever. I get it now. Tubes are mitered with flint tools and joined with clay lugs fired over coals.
    Exactly. You should be quite at home here on the MTBR Flame Building board.

  11. #11
    pvd
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWF
    Regardless of anybody's personal feelings about Don Walker, NAHBs is one of the best things to ever happen to small and custom builders and he made it happen.
    I aggree.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by disease
    Obviously the products of a little shop where one person does all the work from tube selection to painting can be considerded handmade, I guess. What about somebody like Jeff Jones, who is now outsourcing to Merlin? Are the Merlin made Jones frames not just as much "handmade" as a Jones frames where Jones himself held the torch?

    Is it the willingness to customize for a client that makes one manufacturers products "handmade" as opposed to...as opposed to what? They are all handmade are they not?

    Do the NAHBS organizers publish their criteria? I am not trying to be a smartass, I am just curious about what their definition is.
    The short answer is the name of the shop that made it is the same as the same as the name on the frame. The fabrication is not outsourced and/or automated. There are many exceptions.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy
    The short answer is the name of the shop that made it is the same as the same as the name on the frame. The fabrication is not outsourced and/or automated. There are many exceptions.
    Please refer to my post above

    POST EDITED: I totally assumed that DWF ment Don Walker Fab not Don Farris , MY MISTAKE
    Please accept my applogies , now please move the show back to Portland !
    To the best of my knolage INDY diesnt have a VooDoo doughnut

    Portland is the perfect city to hold the hand-built bike show , you just need a venue that can handle the demand .

    With 1/2 of the frame builder at the show all residing in less than a 12 HR drive from P-town and the wealth of other companies located in Portland like Weiden Keenedy, Nike's AD agency who held a pre showing the night before the bike show opened .
    I can't see how this could get any better !

    I'm just bummed i didn't finish my concept bike for the Weiden Keenedy opening in time .. Damm mill failuer !
    Last edited by Evil4bc; 02-11-2008 at 11:19 AM.
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  14. #14
    DWF
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil4bc
    Please refer to my post above

    Don nice to see you post kind words for yourself , but choosing a smaller venue to save money in a city populated by bicycle freaks might seem like a good idea up until the point the fire Marshall tells you to stop letting people in .

    Portland is the perfect city to hold the hand-built bike show , you just need a venue that can handle the demand .

    With 1/2 of the frame builder at the show all residing in less than a 12 HR drive from P-town and the wealth of other companies located in Portland like Weiden Keenedy, Nike's AD agency who held a pre showing the night before the bike show opened .
    I can't see how this could get any better !

    I'm just bummed i didn't finish my concept bike for the Weiden Keenedy opening in time .. Damm mill failuer !
    Go easy, Brad. DWF = Don Ferris not Don Walker.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWF
    Go easy, Brad. DWF = Don Ferris not Don Walker.
    Post edited : totally my mistake , sorry Don
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy
    The short answer is the name of the shop that made it is the same as the same as the name on the frame. The fabrication is not outsourced and/or automated. There are many exceptions.
    I've asked DW for a selection criteria and manifesto for the show. I don't expect a reply because the show doesn't seem to have one short of "Does Don like you? Y/N", but we'll see.

    NAHBS is like a building and construction show, where the people running it don't understand what an Architect is and are afraid to let them in lest their heads explode.
    No longer member of the bike industry nor society, so don't hassle me.

  17. #17
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    I don't think there is any hard and fast criteria for showing at the show. My take on it is that it is a venue for custom built bicycles. There were several exhibitors from other countries (Dario Pegoretti, Rene Herse, Llewelyn to name a few).

    SRAM was there as was Continental Tires, Cane Creek, Brooks Saddles, Kore, Syncros/Ritchey, Shimano. Sure, those parts are often found on the bikes and that is probably how their attendance is viewed.

    Ellesworth and Ventana were there, I don't know how much they do in-house.

    I don't see why Thylacine designs shouldn't be able to show.

  18. #18
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    ha

    all the carbon on my soloist was hand laid so is that hand made?

  19. #19
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    Depends if Phil buys the right bottle of Scotch.
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