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  1. #1
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    Testosterone Replacement Therapy (TRT)

    So how many of my fellow riders are on TRT?

    I have been on TRT four years and it has changed my life as my levels were crashing low before treatment.

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    I am taking androgel right now. I am not taking any other testosterone. androgel needs to be taken regularly to feel great.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Picard View Post
    I am taking androgel right now. I am not taking any other testosterone. androgel needs to be taken regularly to feel great.
    Injections for me. The gel costs too much as I can buy a vial that lasts 12 weeks for $80....plus syringes and needles which are very inexpensive.

    Does your insurance cover the cost of Androgel or do you pay a lot out of pocket?

  4. #4
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    how does injection work? how many syringes is in 1 prescription?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Picard View Post
    how does injection work? how many syringes is in 1 prescription?
    I buy the vial of testosterone (test) at the pharmacy and purchase needles and syringes online like at Amazon, MedSupply, AndroUSA or GPZ.com.

    One thing about the gel, only a small percentage is actually absorbed as where injection is mostly utilized.

    Your doctor would probably want to start all over if you were to switch and get lab results to confirm which dose of injectable test is working correctly.

  6. #6
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    do you need to go to doctor to get injection?

    I have to ask my doctor about injection.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Picard View Post
    do you need to go to doctor to get injection?

    I have to ask my doctor about injection.
    No, I administer my own injections. I take them twice a week to keep blood levels even throughout the week.

    Lots of different opinions by doctors on what they are willing to do. Some don't care if you do injections others want nothing to do with it, some will let you take injections if their nurse administers the shot.

    I am on the most economical and effective plan as the gel I was not interested in based on cost. I think if I bought the gel today it would be over $560 today as that is what I would have paids years ago.

  8. #8
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    how long does injection last?
    do you need to carry along doctor note in case cops ask you about injection?

    how many injection do you use a month?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Picard View Post
    how long does injection last?
    do you need to carry along doctor note in case cops ask you about injection?

    how many injection do you use a month?
    Some doctors will have you take one shot once a week but for me I inject twice a week. So an injection can last from 3.5-7 days and that equals 4-8 shots a month.

    I guess you should take prescription paperwork with you if you travel a lot but not been an issue for me.

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    if you forget an injection a few days, would it cause health problem

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Picard View Post
    if you forget an injection a few days, would it cause health problem
    No, once blood levels are raised you should be fine missing a couple of days. I have forgotten before and no ill effects.

  12. #12
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    I self-inject testosterone once per week. Been using it for 2 - 3 years now. Feel better than before and lost some weight and 3 inches waist size. Age 71. I recommend it, FWIW.

  13. #13
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    How is your energy level after taking injection for 2 months? Do feel young again? Do you regain more energy?

    Sent from my F3213 using Tapatalk

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by elder_mtber View Post
    I self-inject testosterone once per week. Been using it for 2 - 3 years now. Feel better than before and lost some weight and 3 inches waist size. Age 71. I recommend it, FWIW.
    Yes, more energy, fat loss and my cognition improved.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Picard View Post
    How is your energy level after taking injection for 2 months? Do feel young again? Do you regain more energy?

    Sent from my F3213 using Tapatalk
    Yes, I felt the effects after one month. I was feeling really run down and loss of interest in activities. In my early 50s I just racked it up to getting older but after lab test my test levels were really low.

  16. #16
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    Picard - my experience is just like GeoDon's. Except I started in my upper 60's.

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    This is very interesting to me, but I'd like to get some very specific details.

    I was on injections every other week. I think my doctor is too conservative with dosages. I got some benefits, but not life changing.

    So, the details I am really interested in are:


    What was your T level before injections?
    After injections?
    How often do you inject?
    Where do you inject?
    What size needle are you injecting with?
    What exactly are you injecting? (brand name)
    What dosage are you injecting?



    The stuff I was injecting (I need to get the name of it) was thick like maple syrup. I had to use a 21guage needle. And I only injected every other week.

    I'm going back to the doctor soon for a follow up. So any info is appreciated.

  18. #18
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    Testo questions

    What was your T level before injections? 90 - 220 ng/dL
    After injections? 450 ng/dL
    How often do you inject? Once per week
    Where do you inject? Alternate left and right legs into the quad
    What size needle are you injecting with? 23 g
    What exactly are you injecting? (brand name)Watson Testosterone Cypionate 2000mg/10mL (200mg/mL)
    What dosage are you injecting? 0.5cc According to my calculation this dose is 100mg per injection

    Testosterone Replacement Therapy (TRT)-img_0002.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by elder_mtber View Post
    What was your T level before injections? 90 - 220 ng/dL
    After injections? 450 ng/dL
    How often do you inject? Once per week
    Where do you inject? Alternate left and right legs into the quad
    What size needle are you injecting with? 23 g
    What exactly are you injecting? (brand name)Watson Testosterone Cypionate 2000mg/10mL (200mg/mL)
    What dosage are you injecting? 0.5cc According to my calculation this dose is 100mg per injection

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I appreciate the info. This is a different brand than I was using. I couldn't even get my stuff through a 23guage needle. I had problems with a 21. Maybe I should be looking at a different brand.

  20. #20
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    Killed my friend at 52. Previously while supplementing he never looked better, healthier and happier. It's called getting old - deal with it or roll the dice.

    Cheers!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsnowut View Post
    Killed my friend at 52. Previously while supplementing he never looked better, healthier and happier. It's called getting old - deal with it or roll the dice.

    Cheers!
    That's a huge turd to toss into the punch bowl with no context or details. Think I'll just ignore this and confer with my doctor instead.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsnowut View Post
    Killed my friend at 52. Previously while supplementing he never looked better, healthier and happier. It's called getting old - deal with it or roll the dice.

    Cheers!
    Worthless post.
    Super snowflake = when an avatar offends you so much you have to cry about it and report it to admin. Life must suck for you.

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    Fair criticisms. Just sharing my limited experience. My friend was under the care of a very good doctor the whole time he was supplementing. I was with him when he died doing what we all love to do.

    Just FYI.

    carry on and cheers again!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsnowut View Post
    Fair criticisms. Just sharing my limited experience. My friend was under the care of a very good doctor the whole time he was supplementing. I was with him when he died doing what we all love to do.

    Just FYI.

    carry on and cheers again!
    I'm sorry for your loss, but from the details you've provided, your friend could have died from a bee sting, or hereditary heart disease, or about a million other things. There's no need to try to create a scare about testosterone replacement therapy and spontaneous deaths without some data that shows a link.

    Remember, correlation does not prove causation.

  25. #25
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    So what killed him? Any proof it had anything to with TRT? Sorry you lost your friend but don't jump into a conversation about something, claim it killed your friend, then leave without providing any information or proof. How do we know that your friend was on TRT but died after falling off a cliff?
    Super snowflake = when an avatar offends you so much you have to cry about it and report it to admin. Life must suck for you.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsnowut View Post
    Fair criticisms. Just sharing my limited experience. My friend was under the care of a very good doctor the whole time he was supplementing. I was with him when he died doing what we all love to do.

    Just FYI.

    carry on and cheers again!
    Could not be that good of a doctor if he killed your friend.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_bo View Post
    This is very interesting to me, but I'd like to get some very specific details.

    I was on injections every other week. I think my doctor is too conservative with dosages. I got some benefits, but not life changing.

    So, the details I am really interested in are:


    What was your T level before injections?
    205ng/dl
    After injections?
    800-900ng/dl
    How often do you inject?
    Twice a week
    Where do you inject?
    Outter quads, glutes, ventro glutes, deltoids
    What size needle are you injecting with?
    Draw with a 20 gauge, inject with a 25 gauge
    What exactly are you injecting? (brand name)
    Various brands, either test cypionate or test enanthate
    What dosage are you injecting?
    250mg a week, 125mg Tuesday and Friday
    The stuff I was injecting (I need to get the name of it) was thick like maple syrup. I had to use a 21guage needle. And I only injected every other week.
    Warm the vial with hot water for 5 minutes then draw and inject, thins the oil out nicely. I know Watson uses cotton seed oil which is very viscous, not sure why.

    I'm going back to the doctor soon for a follow up. So any info is appreciated.
    ````
    Additional note regarding frequency of injections, cypionate and enanthate both have approximately 3.5-4 day half life, getting an injection every other week is a roller coaster ride.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    So what killed him? Any proof it had anything to with TRT? Sorry you lost your friend but don't jump into a conversation about something, claim it killed your friend, then leave without providing any information or proof. How do we know that your friend was on TRT but died after falling off a cliff?
    Is it possible that he contracted a horrendous STD after obtaining some solid, long-lasting wood?
    The only important thing these days, is rhythm and melody. Rhythm...and melody.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crankout View Post
    Is it possible that he contracted a horrendous STD after obtaining some solid, long-lasting wood?
    Quite possible.
    Super snowflake = when an avatar offends you so much you have to cry about it and report it to admin. Life must suck for you.

  30. #30
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    The more often you inject the more stable you are, and the less estrogen conversion will happen. Twice a week is optional. Once every 2 weeks is terrible. If your doctor won let you do it yourself. Or insist on infrequent shots. Find another doctor.

  31. #31
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    My doctor won't prescribe testosterone injection but he gave me gel

    Sent from my F3213 using Tapatalk

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    The more often you inject the more stable you are, and the less estrogen conversion will happen. Twice a week is optional. Once every 2 weeks is terrible. If your doctor won let you do it yourself. Or insist on infrequent shots. Find another doctor.
    I'm assuming this is all based on medical need vs a desire to juice up?
    The only important thing these days, is rhythm and melody. Rhythm...and melody.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crankout View Post
    I'm assuming this is all based on medical need vs a desire to juice up?
    Yes, testosterone that would be given is attached to an ester. This gives it a time released effect. But half of the testosterone will be released within the first 48hours. So if the doctor wants give you the shot every 2 weeks than for the first 4 days you're going to have muchildren higher than normal levels, which will be converted into estrogen. Then by the end of 2 weeks you have low levels of test aND high estrogen. Most feel worse than when the started.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Picard View Post
    My doctor won't prescribe testosterone injection but he gave me gel

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    Gel is fine, if you rotate where you put it...and if you understand that the rate of absorbtion isn't the best

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    Gel is fine, if you rotate where you put it...and if you understand that the rate of absorbtion isn't the best
    With gel you also have to be careful about the possibility the hormone could be transferred to other individuals via skin contact. Personally if a doc would only prescribe gel, I'd find another doc. I like my usual family doc for most things, but for this I went to one who specializes in bio-identical HRT.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBaldBlur View Post
    With gel you also have to be careful about the possibility the hormone could be transferred to other individuals via skin contact. Personally if a doc would only prescribe gel, I'd find another doc. I like my usual family doc for most things, but for this I went to one who specializes in bio-identical HRT.
    Yes, I agree. And finding a doctor that goes by how you feel, vs if you're in range is important as well.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Picard View Post
    My doctor won't prescribe testosterone injection but he gave me gel

    Sent from my F3213 using Tapatalk
    Gel can be hit or miss as some guys do not do well on the gel. From what I have read free testosterone can be low even though total testosterone is at prefered levels.

    If you feel good on the gel then no issues.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    Yes, I agree. And finding a doctor that goes by how you feel, vs if you're in range is important as well.
    This is 100% correct. I am a testosterone sponge at 250mg a week. I do not know what that says about me but anything less and I do not feel as good.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeoDon View Post
    This is 100% correct. I am a testosterone sponge at 250mg a week. I do not know what that says about me but anything less and I do not feel as good.

    Yeah, I noticed your post. Most doctors won't go over 150 a week you're lucky. My levels are 800- 900 at 175mg a week. This is where I feel best.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    Yes, I agree. And finding a doctor that goes by how you feel, vs if you're in range is important as well.
    Exactly! Thanks for adding that as I meant to do so. My doc tested me and shrugged his shoulders because I was "in range". The HRT specialist put that "range" in context and has been a big help to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsnowut View Post
    Killed my friend at 52. Previously while supplementing he never looked better, healthier and happier. It's called getting old - deal with it or roll the dice.

    Cheers!
    It's worth mentioning that low testosterone is not going to speed your death, however, adding testosterone may increase risks for heart disease, prostate cancer, BPH, breast cancer, sleep apnea, stroke, etc...

    There is no such thing as a magic bullet. All things come with a price tag.

    My experience is mostly with young to middle aged males, many of whom struggled with agitation, anger, and anxiety after starting TRT.

    In general, risk if harm increases with the number of risk factors, age, and the dose.

    A male taking TRT is not much different from a woman taking ERT.

    As Jsnowut suggested, good luck.

  42. #42
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    Yes, there are risk with low test as well. But if your friend was in good car with his doctor. This would mean he would have had estrogen control and monitoring lipids, blood pressure and red blood cell count. If his doctor did this, than your friends death was sad, but may be unrelated.

    I have a friend that died from liver cancer, (technically rejection of transplant) his new doctor believe that the reluctance to put him on HRT kept him estrogen dominant too long and feed the cancer.

  43. #43
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    Why?

    I made a big change in my lifestyle. Mainly what I eat, sleep habits, & getting off the couch. Replaced the Oreo Doublestuffs with strawberries, apples, & more fruit. Stopped buying ready made food from the freezer section and ate fresh ingredients. Sleep 7 hours a night instead of 5. Started riding a bike, then hitting the gym a couple times a week.

    Didn't take long- maybe 2-3 months and I felt like a younger man! But doctors & pharmaceutical companies will argue with you. They will go broke depending on me to support them.

    My back no longer aches as long as I keep up with the core exercises. Knees started feeling a little sore when I switched from a 26" wheel bike to 29"

    Pardon me if you think I'm trying to hijack this thread. That's not my intentions.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    It's worth mentioning that low testosterone is not going to speed your death, however, adding testosterone may increase risks for heart disease, prostate cancer, BPH, breast cancer, sleep apnea, stroke, etc...
    Monitoring a person on TRT can help avoid these issues. There are guys that are low-T that are not in good physical condition or have a pre-existing condition that warrant not getting the treatment.
    There is no such thing as a magic bullet. All things come with a price tag.
    True!
    My experience is mostly with young to middle aged males, many of whom struggled with agitation, anger, and anxiety after starting TRT.
    Pre-existing mental conditions can exacerbated by TRT but a patient that does not have a mental condition TRT would not be an issue.

    In general, risk if harm increases with the number of risk factors, age, and the dose.

    A male taking TRT is not much different from a woman taking ERT.

    As Jsnowut suggested, good luck.
    ...

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by pitdaddy View Post
    Why?

    I made a big change in my lifestyle. Mainly what I eat, sleep habits, & getting off the couch. Replaced the Oreo Doublestuffs with strawberries, apples, & more fruit. Stopped buying ready made food from the freezer section and ate fresh ingredients. Sleep 7 hours a night instead of 5. Started riding a bike, then hitting the gym a couple times a week.

    Didn't take long- maybe 2-3 months and I felt like a younger man! But doctors & pharmaceutical companies will argue with you. They will go broke depending on me to support them.

    My back no longer aches as long as I keep up with the core exercises. Knees started feeling a little sore when I switched from a 26" wheel bike to 29"

    Pardon me if you think I'm trying to hijack this thread. That's not my intentions.
    Do you know your testosterone levels?

    If they are in a healthy range then I totally agree. But until you are low-T I don't think you will have the same opinion.

  46. #46
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    I don't know my testosterone levels. I also don't have much faith in doctors. Pardon me for coming across cynical or pessimistic. That's not my intentions. Guess I'm just curious as to why one would go for testosterone injections, etc. instead of seeking an easier way to up one's levels.

    My hearing is bad in my right ear, my vision is poor without contacts or glasses, I'm balding, etc.. Physically I can say I'm far from perfect.

    Please go on with your story. I do appreciate learning from others.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by pitdaddy View Post
    I don't know my testosterone levels. I also don't have much faith in doctors. Pardon me for coming across cynical or pessimistic. That's not my intentions. Guess I'm just curious as to why one would go for testosterone injections, etc. instead of seeking an easier way to up one's levels.

    My hearing is bad in my right ear, my vision is poor without contacts or glasses, I'm balding, etc.. Physically I can say I'm far from perfect.

    Please go on with your story. I do appreciate learning from others.

    I also don't put much faith in doctors. To be honest, Male TRT is pretty low on the list of priorities in the medical community. Many men are told to deal with it, it's part of getting old....because you can't patent a hormone so there's little money to be made.

    Men's testosterone levels are falling with each generation. For a lot of reasons we cannot control. When I was younger I knew men that worked hard, stayed fit, and still interested in sex at 80yrs old. This is becoming rare. Cancer thives in a estrogen dominate environment. TRT isn't a reason not to eat and exercise well. But it will help you use those tools to recover if yours are low.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pitdaddy View Post
    Why?

    I made a big change in my lifestyle. Mainly what I eat, sleep habits, & getting off the couch. Replaced the Oreo Doublestuffs with strawberries, apples, & more fruit. Stopped buying ready made food from the freezer section and ate fresh ingredients. Sleep 7 hours a night instead of 5. Started riding a bike, then hitting the gym a couple times a week.

    Didn't take long- maybe 2-3 months and I felt like a younger man! But doctors & pharmaceutical companies will argue with you. They will go broke depending on me to support them.

    My back no longer aches as long as I keep up with the core exercises. Knees started feeling a little sore when I switched from a 26" wheel bike to 29"

    Pardon me if you think I'm trying to hijack this thread. That's not my intentions.
    I think that you were just treating your body like crap. A lot of guys here do all those things already. Stop Eating cookies and frozen dinners and sitting on the couch all day, thank you doctor.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfgiantsfan View Post
    I think that you were just treating your body like crap. A lot of guys here do all those things already. Stop Eating cookies and frozen dinners and sitting on the couch all day, thank you doctor.
    You are correct! And instead of taking a pill and continuing down the wrong path I made a simple lifestyle change.

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    ... and you have more faith in the internet and uneducated opinions? Really?

    I find it interesting how often people thnk that medical providers are somehow getting rich on the medications they prescribe. So let me illustrate a providers perspective:

    A patient comes in, they have multiple medical conditions, they take a lot of medications, I have 3-4 minutes to talk with them, another couple minutues for chart review, a couple minutes for assessment, and now I'm over the time alloted to treat the patient, so I will chart after my clinical hours and work late for the same pay.

    The average provider is working 10 to 12 hours a day, but only sees patients 6-8 hours a day; the overage is unpaid charting, consults, research, and chart review.

    So, do I want to increase the number of medications and the complexity with which I treat this patient? HELL NO!

    My goal as a medical provider is to do the least possible to keep that person safe, which means pushing lifestyle solutions, minimizing polypharmacy, and resisting the patient's constant requests to give them the magic bullet.

    You think you, as a patient, that you are cycnical, you should see if from the provider's perspective!

    I would love it if all of my patients would lead healthy lives, what a joy it would be to only treat conditions that were not resolved with health living, now that would be a true miracle!

    People, there is no magic bullet, all things come with a price.

    My only suggestion to those seeking the magic elixir that will relieve you of your well earned old age woes is to beware of people bearing gifts. If it seems to good to be true, it probably is.

    I'm a medical provider, I can get any medication I want, but I do not use testosterone, and my T is not high.

    Just think about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by pitdaddy View Post
    I don't know my testosterone levels. I also don't have much faith in doctors. Pardon me for coming across cynical or pessimistic. That's not my intentions. Guess I'm just curious as to why one would go for testosterone injections, etc. instead of seeking an easier way to up one's levels.

    My hearing is bad in my right ear, my vision is poor without contacts or glasses, I'm balding, etc.. Physically I can say I'm far from perfect.

    Please go on with your story. I do appreciate learning from others.

  51. #51
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    .....
    Last edited by MSU Alum; 09-14-2017 at 07:24 PM.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    ... and you have more faith in the internet and uneducated opinions? Really?

    No.

    I find it interesting how often people thnk that medical providers are somehow getting rich on the medications they prescribe. So let me illustrate a providers perspective:

    Medical providers are at the mercy of the accountants and lawyers that own them. Show me a doctor that runs a one man show and isn't in a "group".


    A patient comes in, they have multiple medical conditions, they take a lot of medications, I have 3-4 minutes to talk with them, another couple minutues for chart review, a couple minutes for assessment, and now I'm over the time alloted to treat the patient, so I will chart after my clinical hours and work late for the same pay.

    Exactly my point. You aren't allowed to do your job. Obviously you care so you don't take the easy way out.


    The average provider is working 10 to 12 hours a day, but only sees patients 6-8 hours a day; the overage is unpaid charting, consults, research, and chart review.

    So, do I want to increase the number of medications and the complexity with which I treat this patient? HELL NO!

    My goal as a medical provider is to do the least possible to keep that person safe, which means pushing lifestyle solutions, minimizing polypharmacy, and resisting the patient's constant requests to give them the magic bullet.

    I want you for my doctor.

    You think you, as a patient, that you are cycnical, you should see if from the provider's perspective!

    Don't need to. The view is bad enough from my perspective. Again, because the doctor isn't allowed to run the show. He is at the mercy of the bean counter that has no clue what a doctor does. Yet tells him what he can & cannot do (in the 7 minutes allotted to each patient).


    I would love it if all of my patients would lead healthy lives, what a joy it would be to only treat conditions that were not resolved with health living, now that would be a true miracle!

    People, there is no magic bullet, all things come with a price.

    My only suggestion to those seeking the magic elixir that will relieve you of your well earned old age woes is to beware of people bearing gifts. If it seems to good to be true, it probably is.

    I'm a medical provider, I can get any medication I want, but I do not use testosterone, and my T is not high.

    Just think about it.
    Thank you for your input. I would love to visit with you sometime. There are a lot of things you and I would agree on when it comes to medicine & health. It's the business side of how health care is run that raises my blood pressure.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    ... and you have more faith in the internet and uneducated opinions? Really?

    I find it interesting how often people thnk that medical providers are somehow getting rich on the medications they prescribe. So let me illustrate a providers perspective:

    A patient comes in, they have multiple medical conditions, they take a lot of medications, I have 3-4 minutes to talk with them, another couple minutues for chart review, a couple minutes for assessment, and now I'm over the time alloted to treat the patient, so I will chart after my clinical hours and work late for the same pay.

    The average provider is working 10 to 12 hours a day, but only sees patients 6-8 hours a day; the overage is unpaid charting, consults, research, and chart review.

    So, do I want to increase the number of medications and the complexity with which I treat this patient? HELL NO!

    My goal as a medical provider is to do the least possible to keep that person safe, which means pushing lifestyle solutions, minimizing polypharmacy, and resisting the patient's constant requests to give them the magic bullet.

    You think you, as a patient, that you are cycnical, you should see if from the provider's perspective!

    I would love it if all of my patients would lead healthy lives, what a joy it would be to only treat conditions that were not resolved with health living, now that would be a true miracle!

    People, there is no magic bullet, all things come with a price.

    My only suggestion to those seeking the magic elixir that will relieve you of your well earned old age woes is to beware of people bearing gifts. If it seems to good to be true, it probably is.

    I'm a medical provider, I can get any medication I want, but I do not use testosterone, and my T is not high.

    Just think about it.
    I agree 100% with everything you said, not one argument and that is based on my experience with the health professionals I have dealt with over the years.

    I feel healthcare providers are top notch and have nothing negative to say. But the administrative side sucks. Both from the medical and insurance side so much money is wasted on bureaucracy I wonder how much money is actually spent on the service and how much goes to indirect or overhead expenses.

    And don't get me started on the cost of frivolous lawsuits.

    As to people that rail against medicine, I find it funny, odd and irritating how with modern medicine we live longer lives DESPITE that fact we are the fattest, eating the worst and most sedentary ever in history. Yet people talk crap about the very medicine that keeps us living.

    In other words, we try and kill ourselves while modern medicine keeps us living longer and yet complain about it!


    SMH!

  54. #54
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    The biggest time suck for a provider is charting, which has increased exponentially with use of electronic medical records.

    Insurance companies and Medicaid/Medicare add more and more requirements for specificity to approve payment for services; not for medications.

    Ten years ago I charted with paper and pen, very simple note taking. Most of my time was spent on patient care.

    I'm fortunate to work in an ED styled setting, I can dictate, my billing is simple, I can spend most of my time with the patients. My wife is in out patient, she's stuck with the "new medical model".

    In order for medical care to be efficient, we need a universal system, tiered/triaged, that provides basic health care to all, no questions asked.

    This system would need to be streamlined so providers can work more and chart less. Providers need to be free of the "proof" of appropriate treatment.

    We are incredibly short on medical providers, burn out is high, suicide is high, substance abuse is high. Some of the brightest folks choose medicine, I can't tell you how many I've met who wish they'd chosen differently.

    It's a tough gig.

    I love my job, but what I do after work is what keeps me sane... mountain biking!

  55. #55
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    I do 200mg cypionate every two weeks. My wife's a nurse and is the one who shoots me up. I was only marginally low, age 66, but I needed to build muscle mass after bilateral knee replacement surgery. Works well for me, levels work out fine.

    The most recent studies have shown no link between TRT and heart disease or MI risk, including men 65 and older, and at least two have shown a decreased risk. Likewise, no evidence to support an increased risk of prostate cancer. Data on exacerbating an existing prostate cancer is not clear. BPH as a result of TRT is unlikely. Sleep apnea can be a problem in some men, but low testosterone can contribute to or cause sleep apnea too.

    Aggressive behavior and anxiety are rare, even in younger males, unless the dosing is supratherapeutic.

    Breast cancer? Any link is pretty much speculative and theoretical. No good evidence, but there are a few case reports. Jury is still out on male breast cancer risk with TRT.

    TRT for appropriate indications and with appropriate monitoring, based on what we know so far, probably does far more good than harm, if it does any harm at all.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_bo View Post
    This is very interesting to me, but I'd like to get some very specific details.

    I was on injections every other week. I think my doctor is too conservative with dosages. I got some benefits, but not life changing.

    So, the details I am really interested in are:


    What was your T level before injections? 108

    After injections? 1000

    How often do you inject? Three times weekly

    Where do you inject? Outer thighs or shoulders

    What size needle are you injecting with? 26 g

    What exactly are you injecting? (brand name) T Cypionate, compounded

    What dosage are you injecting? 60mg (180 weekly)



    The stuff I was injecting (I need to get the name of it) was thick like maple syrup. I had to use a 21guage needle. And I only injected every other week.

    I'm going back to the doctor soon for a follow up. So any info is appreciated.
    I'll add my two cents:

  57. #57
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    I'm 56 years old and currently on my second round of Bio-TE pellets. My testosterone levels were 266 total and 39 free pre-implant. The pellets last around 6 months for me and slowly return the levels down to around 300 from a peak of 1260. My doctor is also monitoring my Estradiol and PSA levels. All appears normal and honestly I can say I've had little to no side effects. Positive effects however are very substantial. Aside from generally feeling much more energy, mental clarity is really enhanced. Prior to treatments, I would sometimes struggle pulling things out of the memory bank. I knew they were there, and given time, could recall what I was searching for. Post treatments, that has completely disappeared.

    I monitor BP and resting heart rate regularly and have seen a slight increase in resting heart rate (from high 50's to low 60's) but a fairly significant lowering of BP from 130/80 down to 110/70. Cholesterol levels went from 185+ down to 155. I donate blood a couple of times a year and have no increase in Hematocrit levels. Another huge plus is body composition. My weight has stayed level, but I've lost two to three inches from my waist and hips and gained upper and lower body muscle.

    I swim two to three days a week, bike two, and run one or two. I don't lift weights at all. So far I'm very happy with my results. Your results may vary...

    https://www.biotemedical.com/

  58. #58
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    So, I just started with an injectible (once every two weeks). What should I expect? A month before noticeable results, or sooner? Going into this kind blind. My numbers were in the 250 range...
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    Seems like it will take months to have an effect? I don't think it's immediate at all.
    The only important thing these days, is rhythm and melody. Rhythm...and melody.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    So, I just started with an injectible (once every two weeks). What should I expect? A month before noticeable results, or sooner? Going into this kind blind. My numbers were in the 250 range...
    What is your dosage? Is your doctor monitoring your estrogen levels or giving you an antiestrogen?
    I personally feel every 2 weeks is too long. Most of the time you have too high levels in the first 4 days. You can feel great, or terrible depending on how much is converted to estrogen. Then the second week your levels can be below where you started.

  61. #61
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    I'm 67 and suspect that I may have low T levels, but haven't been tested. I'd have to pay out of the pocket for that, since Medicare won't cover it. So I'm just winging it, by how I feel.
    I have AFIB (irregular heartbeat) and am on a blood thinner, a blood pressure regulator, and a med that softens my heart tissue and lowers my heart rate. This surfaced back in early 2014. I was told that I was in higher risk of having a stroke, and I had to avoid the possibility of developing any blood clots. The return circulation in my calves isn't what it used to be.
    Right off the bat, my doctor gave me a list of foods that he wanted me to avoid, since they would likely interact with the blood thinner (warfarin) in such a way that it would be difficult to maintain a consistent level of it in my blood. I always wear compression socks when I head out, since the anti-gravity valves inside the veins in my calves seem to have worn out some.
    Once I got my "INR level" stabilized, I began to experiment with adding back some of the vegetables, herbs, and healthy foods that had been blacklisted for me. I do my own blood test to check my own INR level whenever I need to know what it reads, so I know what the results of my experimentation are.
    My doc doesn't want me to mess with testosterone supplements. He says I'm not supposed to eat oysters, because of the zinc content, but I eat 'em anyway, since a couple of my friends are oyster growers.

    So, I try to get plenty of bike rides, walks, and some regular light weight training in. I'm not satisfied to just let my good doctors treat my symptoms. There's only so much recovery that I canmuster, since my AFIB is due to a messed-up nerve cluster and valve on my left atrium, which makes my heart rate irregular, and doesn't even fully load the ventricle.
    My doc told me that he expected me to recover to about 85% of my former healthy heart strength. Three months or so ago, the last time I had a checkup, my heart had recovered to about 92%, based on their same metrics. My doc was happy, and so am I. I'm still working at improving, despite having suffered two serious accidents, which set me back a bit.
    Life is still good!

  62. #62
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    Forgot to mention that men concerned about low testosterone levels probably should not eat any soy products other than naturally fermented soy sauce (tamari), or occasional small amounts of tofu. I've read that theres a high amount of an estrogen-like compound in soy, which I now avoid.
    I have quit eating Cliff Bars due to having read the ingredient label and seeing that they contain soy products. I take a Laara Bar along with me on my rides now. They have a simple ingredient list of organic dates, nuts, and coconut. They are my favorite trail bar, and my local grocer carries them!

  63. #63
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    So, I am one month in. I have lost some weight, have a bit more energy, and my wife is happy. I will post more observations as time passes.
    I hate the shots, my leg is sore for about three days, which makes it a bit harder to work out/ride.
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  64. #64
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    The research does not support your conclusion.

    Eating soy DOES NOT make a significant different in testosterone nor does it make a significant difference in estrogen levels.

    Eat your soy, it's good for you, and it has much fewer side effects than eating meat (cholesterol, fat).

    However, smoking cigarettes can cause erectile dysfunction and drinking ETOH can reduce testosterone and diminish libido

    Quote Originally Posted by PlutonicPlague View Post
    Forgot to mention that men concerned about low testosterone levels probably should not eat any soy products other than naturally fermented soy sauce (tamari), or occasional small amounts of tofu. I've read that theres a high amount of an estrogen-like compound in soy, which I now avoid.
    I have quit eating Cliff Bars due to having read the ingredient label and seeing that they contain soy products. I take a Laara Bar along with me on my rides now. They have a simple ingredient list of organic dates, nuts, and coconut. They are my favorite trail bar, and my local grocer carries them!

  65. #65
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    I am still having the challenge to get my doctor to refer me to an endocrinologist. She did give me a lecture for 7 of the 10-minute appointment about how dangerous getting male hormone replacement is and that all modern doctors no longer look at that option. But I did finally get her to agree to get the blood work done.

    I am not sure how I am doing. My results were:

    Testosterone 14.2 (8.4 - 28.8) nmol/L

    Testosterone Free 269 (196-636) pmol/L
    I
    So, I am not fallen off the bottom of the expected range, but I don't know what an acceptable level for me should be. I have a friend who also ended up having a fight with his female doctor who eventually gave up and referred him, and when he got his bloodwork done was at 198 Testosterone Free, so I am not as bad as he is, but he hasn't got any results back now that he is on a cream.

    I know that I am overweight and could do to lose a good 40lbs even though the doctor seems to think that number should be closer to 90lbs. It's not that I don't eat healthily, and have cut out almost all sugars and starches. I workout 5 times a week with 30min on the treadmill and 15min vigorous free weight training. But I can't seem to lose the padding around the gut and flab man-boobs. I don't know if there are some better keywords that I need to use to get on the radar.

  66. #66
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    Clomiphene 1x a week for me and it works well. None of the side effects of injections but honestly, I can't really notice any difference from the lower T count before I was taking it.

  67. #67
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    Some interesting reading. Thanks.

  68. #68
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    https://medlineplus.gov/druginfo/meds/a682704.html

    Might want to read this, regarding Clomiphene.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadkill401 View Post
    I am still having the challenge to get my doctor to refer me to an endocrinologist. She did give me a lecture for 7 of the 10-minute appointment about how dangerous getting male hormone replacement is and that all modern doctors no longer look at that option. But I did finally get her to agree to get the blood work done.

    I am not sure how I am doing. My results were:

    Testosterone 14.2 (8.4 - 28.8) nmol/L

    Testosterone Free 269 (196-636) pmol/L
    I
    So, I am not fallen off the bottom of the expected range, but I don't know what an acceptable level for me should be. I have a friend who also ended up having a fight with his female doctor who eventually gave up and referred him, and when he got his bloodwork done was at 198 Testosterone Free, so I am not as bad as he is, but he hasn't got any results back now that he is on a cream.

    I know that I am overweight and could do to lose a good 40lbs even though the doctor seems to think that number should be closer to 90lbs. It's not that I don't eat healthily, and have cut out almost all sugars and starches. I workout 5 times a week with 30min on the treadmill and 15min vigorous free weight training. But I can't seem to lose the padding around the gut and flab man-boobs. I don't know if there are some better keywords that I need to use to get on the radar.
    The range is an average of people 16-80 years of age. If your doctor is lecturing you about TRT. Time for a new doctor. Did she have your estrogen checked? High estrogen and low androgens are worse for your prostate than TRT

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadkill401 View Post
    I am still having the challenge to get my doctor to refer me to an endocrinologist. She did give me a lecture for 7 of the 10-minute appointment about how dangerous getting male hormone replacement is and that all modern doctors no longer look at that option. But I did finally get her to agree to get the blood work done.

    I am not sure how I am doing. My results were:

    Testosterone 14.2 (8.4 - 28.8) nmol/L

    Testosterone Free 269 (196-636) pmol/L
    I
    So, I am not fallen off the bottom of the expected range, but I don't know what an acceptable level for me should be. I have a friend who also ended up having a fight with his female doctor who eventually gave up and referred him, and when he got his bloodwork done was at 198 Testosterone Free, so I am not as bad as he is, but he hasn't got any results back now that he is on a cream.

    I know that I am overweight and could do to lose a good 40lbs even though the doctor seems to think that number should be closer to 90lbs. It's not that I don't eat healthily, and have cut out almost all sugars and starches. I workout 5 times a week with 30min on the treadmill and 15min vigorous free weight training. But I can't seem to lose the padding around the gut and flab man-boobs. I don't know if there are some better keywords that I need to use to get on the radar.
    Visit the local "Low T" business if one is available.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadkill401 View Post
    I am still having the challenge to get my doctor to refer me to an endocrinologist. She did give me a lecture for 7 of the 10-minute appointment about how dangerous getting male hormone replacement is and that all modern doctors no longer look at that option. But I did finally get her to agree to get the blood work done.

    I am not sure how I am doing. My results were:

    Testosterone 14.2 (8.4 - 28.8) nmol/L

    Testosterone Free 269 (196-636) pmol/L
    I
    So, I am not fallen off the bottom of the expected range, but I don't know what an acceptable level for me should be. I have a friend who also ended up having a fight with his female doctor who eventually gave up and referred him, and when he got his bloodwork done was at 198 Testosterone Free, so I am not as bad as he is, but he hasn't got any results back now that he is on a cream.

    I know that I am overweight and could do to lose a good 40lbs even though the doctor seems to think that number should be closer to 90lbs. It's not that I don't eat healthily, and have cut out almost all sugars and starches. I workout 5 times a week with 30min on the treadmill and 15min vigorous free weight training. But I can't seem to lose the padding around the gut and flab man-boobs. I don't know if there are some better keywords that I need to use to get on the radar.
    Unfortunately, your experience is all too common. Most physicians don't know squat about TRT and generally speaking, you have to seek out a specialist (in TRT...NOT an endocrinologist).

    There are options online if you have the financial means. I use Defy and although it's not inexpensive, it is less than half what I was paying a local Low T Center.

  72. #72
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    I would start calling around other doctors in your area/network it's unfortunately better to call male doctors. If your state requiers a recomendation to a specialist. Most the time they will talk with you if they are looking for more patients. Find on that understands(this is why I said a male dr.) Or at least understands they work for you since your the one paying.

    Unfortunately there are a lot of hoops to jump through, if you don't want to pay clinic prices

  73. #73
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    Anyone here heard of Clomiphene ? 62 year old here been dealing with low T for a while I talked with my endrocrinologist (sp) about this and he prescribed 50mg 3 times a week. He said it would take a month or so to get into your system. Well the following blood test came back in a positive way
    Worked for me. Somehow this script fools your body into producing more T.
    Good luck everyone

  74. #74
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    Clomiphene blocks you estrogen receptors, this triggers your body to produce testosterone, since the body thinks it doesn't have any estrogen and to get estrogen you need to make testosterone to be converted into estrogen first. Clomiphene help but a lot of time it's temporary, and the emotional side effects are not tolerated.

    I tried this and it worked for 6 months (I have been on TRT since I was 32 the doctor wanted to see if we could restart my system since I was so young) it quite working and I didn't like the side effects at high doses, still use it at 25mg a week because I like it better than HGC for testicular size retention, libido and sememal volume. Sorry if TMI

  75. #75
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    Testosterone replacement therapy works to supplement a shortage of natural testosterone in the body. The treatment has different phases to it, and you will start to notice different benefits at different stages while the injections are being administered weekly. It will take a few months for you to achieve the full spectrum of benefits that TRT offers. We understand you may be someone who has been suffering from testosterone deficiency for a while now, and you might be eager to see the results right away. Do not worry. You can expect to start seeing some of the results not long after your first treatment. This is good news for men who want to start looking and feeling great as soon as possible!

    https://www.getyourtup.com/testoster...e-therapy-work

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by getyourtup View Post
    Testosterone replacement therapy works to supplement a shortage of natural testosterone in the body. The treatment has different phases to it, and you will start to notice different benefits at different stages while the injections are being administered weekly. It will take a few months for you to achieve the full spectrum of benefits that TRT offers. We understand you may be someone who has been suffering from testosterone deficiency for a while now, and you might be eager to see the results right away. Do not worry. You can expect to start seeing some of the results not long after your first treatment. This is good news for men who want to start looking and feeling great as soon as possible!

    https://www.getyourtup.com/testoster...e-therapy-work
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  77. #77
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    I have found a testosterone replacement therapy

    Been in a testosterone therapy for almost 2 years now. Thanks to the testosterone replacement therapy clinic in Fort Lauderdale.

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    Hello,I am newbie here!

    Testosterone enanthate powder can build my body very well,I have been using it.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by aasraw View Post
    Testosterone enanthate powder can build my body very well,I have been using it.
    Assraw doing some quality spamming...


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  80. #80
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    Hey,man,have you ever tried aasraw's Testosterone enanthate powder? What about it?

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    Started Testosterone 2 days ago as first injection. Should I feel sluggish and have insomnia already? Or am I just stressing myself out?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chako4031 View Post
    Started Testosterone 2 days ago as first injection. Should I feel sluggish and have insomnia already? Or am I just stressing myself out?
    How much? Do you have any estrogen control?

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by chako4031 View Post
    Started Testosterone 2 days ago as first injection. Should I feel sluggish and have insomnia already? Or am I just stressing myself out?
    Probably stressing yourself. Hang in there for a while, everything will be OK, if not better.

    Terry

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by virility View Post
    Been in a testosterone therapy for almost 2 years now. Thanks to the testosterone replacement therapy clinic in Fort Lauderdale.
    Must be a lot of $$$.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    How much? Do you have any estrogen control?
    Should feel the opposite. However, how much are you taking?

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsnowut View Post
    Fair criticisms. Just sharing my limited experience. My friend was under the care of a very good doctor the whole time he was supplementing. I was with him when he died doing what we all love to do.

    Just FYI.

    carry on and cheers again!
    Testosterone is converted to estrogens in the body by a process known as aromatization. Estrogens can cause blood clots. Blood clots can cause death. The remedy for this is using a small dose of testosterone or using anti-aromatization drugs.

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    I've been on testosterone for many years, and it has been fantastic. I attribute a lot of the health and vitality I enjoy to it. I self-inject it once every 4 days. I work with a holistic/natural doctor (Holtorf Medical), and the test is just part of an overall balance including thyroid, DHEA and other hormones. I think having someone who can fine tune these things to achieve balance rather than the typical MD who just treats symptoms is key. It's really important to be on bio-identical hormones. Also important to keep a close eye on your prostate as testosterone can increase the progression of prostate cancer if you have it.

    Quote Originally Posted by chako4031 View Post
    Started Testosterone 2 days ago as first injection. Should I feel sluggish and have insomnia already? Or am I just stressing myself out?
    Sometimes it can produce mild flu-like symptoms a day or two later. I used to get that, but it seems to have gone away. I guess I've achieved some kind of equilibrium.

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    Quote Originally Posted by funkle View Post
    ... overall balance including thyroid, DHEA and other hormones.
    Nice to read this! I still struggle with my thyroid switching from Hyper- to Hypothyroidism and back. Just now I know there is a direct connection between the levels of Testesteron, Serotonin, Dopamin and levels of Thyroid hormons.
    @funkle : have you got some charts with your blood values that show Testesteron and Thyroid hormon levels?

  89. #89
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    4 weeks in. So far I think I'm getting some benefit but the day after my injection I get a lot of fluid retention. Day 2 after it's less but still noticeable. Mostly gone by day 3. I'm hoping this isn't going to be how it is always and maybe just my body adjusting/adapting. I go back in a couple weeks for my first follow-up blood work and I'll talk to the doctor about it then. So far that's the only complaint.
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  90. #90
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    Almost 50 here. Been practicing medicine for over 20 years, so I sort of make my living giving people the pills they want. Though anecdotally I will say most men would be better off with real strength training. Squats, deadlifts, etc, with heavy weight. Start low, go slow, but get strong and you'll likely increase your T level.

    Yes, some men likely benefit from supplements, and when used properly they can help. I'm not against that. But going that route without first giving it a go the way your body intended may not be the best in the long run.
    Last edited by Miker J; 04-08-2019 at 10:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by quite.right View Post
    @funkle : have you got some charts with your blood values that show Testesteron and Thyroid hormon levels?
    Are you asking to see the results?. They are multi page reports with several different panels.

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by tl1 View Post
    Testosterone is converted to estrogens in the body by a process known as aromatization. Estrogens can cause blood clots. Blood clots can cause death. The remedy for this is using a small dose of testosterone or using anti-aromatization drugs.
    A doctor that won't monitor and address estrogen is dangerous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    4 weeks in. So far I think I'm getting some benefit but the day after my injection I get a lot of fluid retention. Day 2 after it's less but still noticeable. Mostly gone by day 3. I'm hoping this isn't going to be how it is always and maybe just my body adjusting/adapting. I go back in a couple weeks for my first follow-up blood work and I'll talk to the doctor about it then. So far that's the only complaint.
    How often do you inject? An injection schedule that is more often with lower doses is ideal. Half of whatever you inject is released 24hr later. This can be converted into estrogen and you should be on an AI. I'm on an EOD schedule and don't need to take much AI to keep estrogen in the 30s

  94. #94
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    Yeah...just getting started I'm once per week, 200mg cyp. I was thinking about going to 2x week instead to see how that works. Not sure I want to do EOD. No AI right now but that might change once I get my first post therapy blood work done. My estrogen was only 20 pre-TRT so that was good. Interested to see what it will be in a couple weeks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    Yeah...just getting started I'm once per week, 200mg cyp. I was thinking about going to 2x week instead to see how that works. Not sure I want to do EOD. No AI right now but that might change once I get my first post therapy blood work done. My estrogen was only 20 pre-TRT so that was good. Interested to see what it will be in a couple weeks.
    2x a week is fine. Make sure your appointment is the day after a shot so you'll have an idea how high your estrogen can get.

  96. #96
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    Yeah...they advised me of the same.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post

    I like it better than HGC for testicular size retention, libido and sememal volume. Sorry if TMI
    Dude, are you in the “movies”? 😆

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyAsheville View Post
    Dude, are you in the “movies”? 😆
    LMFAO! No but my wife says i could be a stunt double lol.

  99. #99
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    6 week follow up. My test level 6 days AFTER an injection was 1349! Needless to say...doc. bumped me down from 200mg a week to 150mg. When they did labs something happened and they didn't do estrogen levels so they had to do another blood draw today and I'll get that result tomorrow to see where that number is at. Not ideal since today is 4 days after my last injection. Still experiencing a fair amount of water retention. Maybe the lower dose will help. I do plan to start doing more injections as much as I hate to.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeoDon View Post
    So how many of my fellow riders are on TRT?

    I have been on TRT four years and it has changed my life as my levels were crashing low before treatment.
    what is your testosterone level before treatment and after treatment? did doctor prescribe injection or androgel? I am curious.

  101. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    6 week follow up. My test level 6 days AFTER an injection was 1349! Needless to say...doc. bumped me down from 200mg a week to 150mg. When they did labs something happened and they didn't do estrogen levels so they had to do another blood draw today and I'll get that result tomorrow to see where that number is at. Not ideal since today is 4 days after my last injection. Still experiencing a fair amount of water retention. Maybe the lower dose will help. I do plan to start doing more injections as much as I hate to.
    75mg Monday evening and Thursday morning is easy and you'll be pretty level then

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    My T level was really low, so my doc rx'd me Androgel, which brought my T level up well. But after 1 year the discount on the Androgel cut out so I discontinued that and went with a compounding pharmacy. It seems to do the trick, and it's only 50 bucks a month.
    Doable. anybody who has issues with the cost of Androgel might/should give a compounding pharmacy a shot. It just might do the trick.

  103. #103
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    I'm borderline low levels at age 57. Just curious but when supplementing does your body stop producing T all together or is that a myth?

    I apologize if that info is buried somewhere way back in this thread and I'm too lazy to find it.

  104. #104
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    My understanding is that it does stop producing test since the body is getting all it needs extraneously. This is why testicle atrophy is a possible side effect. Stopping TRT it can take many months to start producing again or you may not ever regain natural production.
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    TRT can indeed cause atrophy and is why some bHRT docs prescribe clomiphene in some cases. It works by stimulating the natural production of the body's own T - basically tells the boys to "get back to work".

    YMMV but I tried it and couldn't FEEL a difference like I could on TRT even though my labs showed an increase.
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  106. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBaldBlur View Post
    TRT can indeed cause atrophy and is why some bHRT docs prescribe clomiphene in some cases. It works by stimulating the natural production of the body's own T - basically tells the boys to "get back to work".

    YMMV but I tried it and couldn't FEEL a difference like I could on TRT even though my labs showed an increase.
    Your avocados will shrink when on TRT.

    1000ius a week of HCG is much better than clomid for testicular size.....for me.

    Not trying to sway anybody, just my experience.

    HCG works great to bring back semen volume, pumps the boys back up and makes orgasms much more rewarding....if you get my drift

  107. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    My understanding is that it does stop producing test since the body is getting all it needs extraneously. This is why testicle atrophy is a possible side effect. Stopping TRT it can take many months to start producing again or you may not ever regain natural production.
    Yes, any amount of exogenous testosterone will shut down your natural production.

    If you are older it is a lifetime commitment, as your production most likely be shutdown permanently.

  108. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    I'm borderline low levels at age 57. Just curious but when supplementing does your body stop producing T all together or is that a myth?

    I apologize if that info is buried somewhere way back in this thread and I'm too lazy to find it.
    Everyone is different, in more extreme cases it can happen in early 20s.

    When you are 40 or so is when it is more common and I am guessing when in your 50s my more guys need TRT than those that do not.

    Millions of men suffer through this and are never treated due to lack of knowledge or resources. Most doctors know nothing about TRT and many endos and urologists prescribe little to no testosterone if they can.

    I use a concierge service that is based in Florida and everything is handled via internet or phone call. Local lab services for analysis are all over the country. Fairly inexpensive and they are way more aggressive treating TRT than most endos.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeoDon View Post

    1000ius a week of HCG is much better than clomid for testicular size.....for me.
    I was going to look into HCG when I resume treatment so thanks for the review on that. Retaining or losing testicular size doesn't bother me one way or another, but I was not impressed with Clomid at all ... for me. My doc suggested it for a couple reasons: I'd maxed out on the sublingual TRT and Clomid is very cheap compared to injections. He's my age and said that if I was much younger he'd stress the "shrinkage" issue but that I probably won't care (I don't).
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  110. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBaldBlur View Post
    I was going to look into HCG when I resume treatment so thanks for the review on that. Retaining or losing testicular size doesn't bother me one way or another, but I was not impressed with Clomid at all ... for me. My doc suggested it for a couple reasons: I'd maxed out on the sublingual TRT and Clomid is very cheap compared to injections. He's my age and said that if I was much younger he'd stress the "shrinkage" issue but that I probably won't care (I don't).
    Yeah this gets tough because my endo says you need HCG for testicular health. My guess is there is a downside to shrinkage but I do not know what that is.

    And I am with you, I could care less if they turned into a pair of raisins.

    But organisms are much better with HCG with good ejaculations. Think about it, what makes a better orgasm, high or low volume semen?

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    My doc attributed the concern about shrinkage to having an effect on ones self image and being worried about "how they look naked" I think he said. That's not me though. Heck as a cyclist, that could be an advantage ... as long as the shrinkage is limited only to the berries and not the tree trunk.

    I do agree on the volume point though and noticed a sharp drop in that area. So again thanks for the feedback, I'll look back into HCG some more when I resume treatment since I'm between insurance plans at the moment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by elder_mtber View Post
    I self-inject testosterone once per week. Been using it for 2 - 3 years now. Feel better than before and lost some weight and 3 inches waist size. Age 71. I recommend it, FWIW.
    where do you inject the needle on the body?

  113. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Picard View Post
    where do you inject the needle on the body?
    Thigh and glutes are the most common. Delt is not a bad place to inject either. Just use a shorter needle.
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  114. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBaldBlur View Post
    My doc attributed the concern about shrinkage to having an effect on ones self image and being worried about "how they look naked" I think he said. That's not me though. Heck as a cyclist, that could be an advantage ... as long as the shrinkage is limited only to the berries and not the tree trunk.

    I do agree on the volume point though and noticed a sharp drop in that area. So again thanks for the feedback, I'll look back into HCG some more when I resume treatment since I'm between insurance plans at the moment.
    Size of my balls are the least of my worries as far as how good I look naked...lol
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  115. #115
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    Estrogen is 59.2. Blah. My general doc put me on Lasix today. Hopefully that will help cut the water retention. Urologist told me to stop injecting until I see them on Thursday to talk about options. So I did a half dose this past Thursday and was supposed to do the other yesterday...so I'll be a week on only 75mg of test. Hopefully they get it sorted out then so I can get back on the program!
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    I've been off T therapy for a couple of months now, and my rebuilding of my shoulder back and arm muscles has been slow as molasses. I think my PTs kept it that way on purpose and for a good reason, but now I'm going back on the T therapy just to give me that little anabolic boost that I need. I'm hoping that's the ticket!

  117. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radium View Post
    I've been off T therapy for a couple of months now, and my rebuilding of my shoulder back and arm muscles has been slow as molasses. I think my PTs kept it that way on purpose and for a good reason, but now I'm going back on the T therapy just to give me that little anabolic boost that I need. I'm hoping that's the ticket!
    How do you feel emotionally?

    I would be a mess if I stopped treatment.

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    Thanks to everyone who posted on this topic--regardless of your opinion. Hopefully some of you who use TRT might have some feedback for a new user like myself.

    I've had an odd start to TRT. I got the first injection of 125 three weeks ago but came down with bronchitis the next day so I have no idea if it had any effect or not. I felt a bit jittery the night after the injection but also had a fever so hard to tell. I waited until I was healthy enough to get another injection of 125 this week. I ended up getting the injection on the morning of what turned into a 15-hour day from hell at work so when I couldn't sleep last night and still felt wired today I wasn't sure if it was work-related or TRT. I tend to to be really sensitive medications so I'm thinking I'll talk to the Doc about 2 shots a week of 50-60, and since I give the shots to myself I could do Mon/Thur. I'm thinking this might keep me more level based on what I have read. Even after little sleep I felt really strong at the gym today and had less pain in my shoulder than normal. Perhaps a placebo, but I'll see how I do on a ride tomorrow.

  119. #119
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    I’m confused, will TRT give me the balls to do that road gap or not?

  120. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haggis View Post
    I’m confused, will TRT give me the balls to do that road gap or not?
    Haha!

    Not the skill but the balls to do the gap.

    Except your balls will be shrunken, if that makes sense

  121. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeoDon View Post
    Haha!

    Not the skill but the balls to do the gap.

    Except your balls will be shrunken, if that makes sense
    Bigger virtual balls, but smaller physical?

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  122. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haggis View Post
    Bigger virtual balls, but smaller physical?
    The benefit is that if you case the jump and slam your crotch into the top tube...smaller balls = less likely to smash them.
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  123. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    Estrogen is 59.2. Blah. My general doc put me on Lasix today. Hopefully that will help cut the water retention. Urologist told me to stop injecting until I see them on Thursday to talk about options. So I did a half dose this past Thursday and was supposed to do the other yesterday...so I'll be a week on only 75mg of test. Hopefully they get it sorted out then so I can get back on the program!
    Stopped Laxis myself after reading how nasty it can be. Urologist put me back on about 4 weeks ago on a lower dose (100mg weekly) thinking that I just needed to allow my body to adjust. Water retention is still a thing but it's quite a bit less. I was also in the last 4 weeks diagnosed with a kidney stone...so now I'm dealing with that. Urologist did some blood work last week because of that to check some things related to kidney function as well as a 4 week checkup to see where my T levels were. They called friday and said my hematocrit was a bit high which I understand is a possible side affect of TRT and I forgot to ask how my T levels were. I'll call tomorrow to check on that. I had actually scheduled a blood donation locally for end of the month and the doctor suggested that I did do a blood donation and also said to stop therapy again until I got that down. I found a place not too far away that was actually doing a drive the same day so i got my donation done Friday so I'll go in Tuesday to have the level checked again...hoping it's lowered enough I don't have to stop therapy. Next injection is Thursday. I do plan to continue giving blood every 2 months for health benefits and of course...to help out with blood needs. So...this whole TRT experience has been a PITA but at least I for the most part do feel better. Just need to get these last wrinkles ironed out.
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    Slept much better last night but still think I’ll switch to twice weekly injections. Rode for the first time today after being sick for 2 weeks. No doubt that the trt made an impact. I usually start each ride tight and with muscle aches from injuries but today I felt no pain. I also cleared some long climbs where I usually struggle—and this was after being off the bike for a few weeks.


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    Has anyone had their blood thicken (as a result of TRT) to the point where performance has suffered? I guess this can be one of the side effects?

  126. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocdog View Post
    Has anyone had their blood thicken (as a result of TRT) to the point where performance has suffered? I guess this can be one of the side effects?
    Mine hasn't thickened but my hematocrit increased from 46 to 54. So I'm just out of range. Did a blood donation Friday. Had blood drawn yesterday. Should have results later today to see if the donation lowered it so I can continue TRT. Doctor wanted me to stop injections as of last Friday but if my hematocrit is lower I'm going to do my injection this week and then I see the doctor next week and I'll talk about further options and treatment.
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    I just started. Shots twice weekly subcutaneous, .8 test a week, 1.0 HCG per week. So cut numbers in half twice a week. My total free testosterone per blood test was 212. So far pretty good.

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