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  1. #1
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    Permanent insomnia

    Has nothing to do with the virus or anything like that. Has always been an issue, very light sleep anything wakes me up then I can't go back to sleep. At least 20-30' at night before I doze off.

    I tried over the counter stuff, all I get is dizzy. Any natural or prescription stuff. I never tired enough to fall sleep, even riding 20+hrs per week and work, actually makes it worst.
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  2. #2
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    This has been a lifelong issue for me as well.

    I'm sure you've read the usual, no caffeine after a certain point in the day, no TV/computer so many hours before bed, no alcohol as a sleep aid, etc...

    Now with that out of the way - I've tried OTC sleep aids like Advil PM and others with Diphenhydramine (active ingredient in benadryl) and while it works, I don't like the foggy feeling the next morning. Look into valerian root (I like it as a tea before bed in winter) and melatonin (I prefer low dosage taken sub-lingual). Lately I've been very pleased with the results of Ashwagandha herb made as a tincture. CBD also produces some of the best sleep I've had in years. You'll just have to experiment with what works best for you particularly.

    ETA: I considered Ambien and Xanax at one point out of desperation, but as long as these others are working for me I don't see the point of a prescription med.

  3. #3
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    I dealt with prolonged severe insomnia at times and one thing which helped me is not trying to go to sleep and keep myself busy until I am tiered.
    If I now wake up during the night I listen to podcasts until I fall asleep.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBaldBlur View Post
    melatonin (I prefer low dosage taken sub-lingual).
    This works. 0.75-1.5 grams max, more than that can have the opposite affect. I use NOW brand with b6 and peppermint.

    No caffeine, at all, ever.
    No alcohol

    Meditate. Write down what's bothering you, on your mind, or stressing you before you go sleep. This may sound very simple but also works.

    Don't eat for hours before you go to sleep. No screen time/blue light before you go to sleep. Get blocking glasses if you can't avoid that. Make sure your bedroom is 100% void of light, also very important. Also the cooler the temp the deeper you'll sleep.

    You may be mineral deficient, especially zink, magnesium, and calcium. Try a multimineral supplement for a bit, can't hurt. I like sleepy time tea by traditional medicinals. It contains valerian root which was mentioned.

    If your using supplements now pay attention if they're adding to the problem. As a long time user of protein powder, bcaa's etc. it took me a long long time to figure out they caused me horrible bouts of relentless insomnia.

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  5. #5
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    My Mom has it and so do I...sucks. Wasn't so bad when I worked graveyard shift but now on dayshift I feel the effects. Seemed like it got worse for me when I turned 50 or so also since I HAVE to get up and pee about 3x night and going back to sleep is rough.
    I'm a big coffee drinker but have a final cup no later than 4:30 in the afternoon.
    10mg Melatonin before I go to bed but most nights half of that.
    Evening beers are out the window unless I don't have to be up early.
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  6. #6
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    I'm all kinds of F'd up if I have any caffeine after about noon.

    Melatonin has worked for me.
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  7. #7
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    I've been half insomniac since I quit being a daily pot smoker in my 20s. Getting to sleep isn't usually the problem, staying asleep is. The less alcohol the better, but when I can't get to sleep it sometimes helps. It just doesnt help me sleep through the night, so I try to avoid it.

    no coffee after noon (4:30 is way too late!)
    1 hour of meditative Yoga 2 hours before bed
    no computer two hours before bed. Use a (forget what they're called) program that reduces blue in the evening.
    little or no alcohol after dinner
    reading before bed. Books. Not computer things.
    consider becoming a pothead again.

  8. #8
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    Get checked out by a sleep expert.
    Get the sleep apnea test.
    Go see your doctor.

    Herbals like
    - Valerian
    - Saint Johns Wart

    Countless prescription sleeping pills the docs push.

  9. #9
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    2/3 of the people I see I treat for insomnia.

    Meditation, sleep hygiene, sleep restriction, herbal remedies, these are all fine, but when someone is reporting chronic insomnia, they have almost always tried everything ďnaturalĒ.

    In order of preference:

    Natural remedies
    Melatonin
    Benadryl
    Hydroxyzine
    Clonidine/guanfacine
    Trazadone/mirtazapine
    TCA
    Lunesta
    Sonata
    Ambien
    Benzodiazepines

    There are some newer medications worth trying if you have good insurance and/or donít mind a higher copay.

    Keep in mind that some folks have reasons for being unable to sleep, specifically sleep apnea.

    Also consider whether the problem is falling asleep, staying asleep, getting back to sleep., etc

    So yeah, if you ran the gamut for natural remedies then see a medical provider.

    Not sleeping is bad for you in many ways.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by upstateSC-rider View Post
    My Mom has it and so do I...sucks. Wasn't so bad when I worked graveyard shift but now on dayshift I feel the effects. Seemed like it got worse for me when I turned 50 or so also since I HAVE to get up and pee about 3x night and going back to sleep is rough.
    I'm a big coffee drinker but have a final cup no later than 4:30 in the afternoon.
    10mg Melatonin before I go to bed but most nights half of that.
    Evening beers are out the window unless I don't have to be up early.
    4:30 pm really?
    Try a couple cups in the morning and then nothing else....

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  11. #11
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    Iíve long had an issue with waking at 3am or so with a general feeling of anxiety and hard to sleep afterwards. I quit coffee altogether a few months ago, that helped some. About a week ago I started using cbd and holy crap! It really works...not only do I sleep better, I feel better all day.

    This is the one that I tried.
    https://www.lazarusnaturals.com/shop...g-cbd-capsules
    whatever...

  12. #12
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    I had a prolonged period last year of waking up at 2am and being unable to sleep again. For me putting on a pair of IEM to block out external noises and then playing a loop of whale sounds at very low volumes worked. Focusing on the sound really helped switch the brain off.

    I also used Brian Eno's "Ambient 1: Music for Airports." with success. Again, super low volume, focused on the sound, closed eyes, slowed breathing.

  13. #13
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    I've slept with white noise for roughly 27 years now. Usually a fan with a towel over it.

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  14. #14
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    I do that too. Had to start that when the effing neighbor wouldn't shut their dog up. Now its hard to sleep without it if I'm inside. Oddly I don't miss it if I'm sleeping outside.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shark View Post
    4:30 pm really?
    Try a couple cups in the morning and then nothing else....

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  16. #16
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    430p for a stimulant is kinda late in the day if you want to sleep well less than six hours later.

    Iíd knock off the stimulants at least eight hours before bedtime; ten to twelve hours is better.

    Some of us are lucky though, I drink coffee before bed and it knocks me out. True story.

    Quote Originally Posted by upstateSC-rider View Post
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    430p for a stimulant is kinda late in the day if you want to sleep well less than six hours later.

    Iíd knock off the stimulants at least eight hours before bedtime; ten to twelve hours is better.

    Some of us are lucky though, I drink coffee before bed and it knocks me out. True story.
    So, my wife is a curious soul by nature (university professor) and has always been intrigued by the fact that I can and will drink coffee within minutes of getting into bed. Whereas she can't have any after about 2pm if she wants to be able to sleep after getting into bed at 10pm.

    She did a bunch of reading well outside her chosen field and determined that it basically boils down to genetics. Basically some people have a gene or series of genes that allow them to process caffeine at a significantly faster rate than most others.

    I'll see if I can get her to dig up the paper. IIRC it was a meta analysis of a bunch of other papers. I specifically remember one thing: AA genotype = fast metabolizers, and the AC and CC genotypes = slow metabolizers.
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  18. #18
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    Michael Pollan's latest book on caffeine is an excellent read in an interesting Michael Pollan sort of way. Though I do think some of the studies and conclusions are sloppy for a journalistic take. Either way it's very comprehensive while engaging.

    For myself even if I cut off coffee at 9 AM it can have a cumulative effect on my sleep quality over the course of several days vs abstaining. I think the affect on one's brain stem is universal. What I find interesting is caffeine in nature including the green coffee bean is almost always paired with Theanine which effects it's interplay with adenosine in the brain.

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  19. #19
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    Interesting thread with good information to consider.
    Especially genics as posted by Le Duke - new to me.
    Always appreciate the insights of a nurse too, Ben.

    I've been a late watch employee for just shy of 20 years, 10p to 6a.
    Drink coffee most of the night usually backing of by 4am. Food or snacks on shift is willy-nilly but always something. I like some daylight and mid week rides trails etc.... and always have /had reason (or want) to be awake mid day. Typical is bedtime of 730 or 8 am, sleep til I wake on my own at times- often that's 1130 a to 1 pm. Go back to bed around 7 pm to 8 pm to top off my sleep with a nap before going back to work. This is the way it's been for most of my night career and seems to work fine for me. There were times I felt the need to go crash for whatever duration and those were likely related to grampa daycare when I went a little thin on sleep over a few days. 9 to 12 hours was a good boost and I'd feel top of my game.
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  20. #20
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    white noise generator
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  21. #21
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    I've been challenged with bouts of it for maybe the past 15 years. The type of work I do is definitely a factor as it involved many years of 24x7 on call.

    When I was younger, I could sleep until 2pm no problem. I still fall asleep no problem but tend to wake up somewhere in the ~3-4 am range. More often I can fall back asleep in an hour or less but sometimes I get up (like this morning).

    Low dose melatonin helps sometimes. I've tried completely cutting out alcohol, caffeine, screen time ~2 hours before bed, etc. and nothing brings consistency to my ability to stay asleep.

    Also, I sleep worse after heavy exertion/exercise like all day bike rides/races, etc.

    I don't stress over it anymore... just get what I can and take a short power nap as often as possible.
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  22. #22
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    Ever had a sleep study?
    I've been on pause, but I'm shaking off the rust...

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crankout View Post
    Ever had a sleep study?
    I did... findings were that I have a very mild sleep apnea condition. They recommended I give a CPAP a try which I did for a few months. It was no help and quite unwieldy/uncomfortable. My wife worked in sleep medicine for a number of years and had me try different routines, etc.

    Her sleep quality has diminished in recent years as well. At this point we are chalking it up to being over 50 with a good helping of work/life stress that comes from living in a major metropolitan area.

    We definitely want to get the heck out of Dodge at some point and I'm thinking Missoula, MT would be an awesome downshift from East Coast frenetic pace BS
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  24. #24
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    One of my long-term girlfriends was narcoleptic with cataplexy. She got a sleep study every year of which I sat in on to glean as much info as I could. My impression was professional wishful thinking passed off as science. The adderal was fun though.

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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by edubfromktown View Post
    I did... findings were that I have a very mild sleep apnea condition. They recommended I give a CPAP a try which I did for a few months. It was no help and quite unwieldy/uncomfortable. My wife worked in sleep medicine for a number of years and had me try different routines, etc.

    Her sleep quality has diminished in recent years as well. At this point we are chalking it up to being over 50 with a good helping of work/life stress that comes from living in a major metropolitan area.

    We definitely want to get the heck out of Dodge at some point and I'm thinking Missoula, MT would be an awesome downshift from East Coast frenetic pace BS
    ... and then there's the old person sleep thing which is real and can be a problem.

    Racing thoughts, whatever the cause, are the single biggest cause of sleep delays as well as problems with falling back to sleep.

    How to avoid racing thoughts ... um, try not to think about things you can't change, and avoid exposure to things that trigger your thinking about things you can't change. So avoid stressful encounters, avoid stressful social media, avoid stress.

    For folks who have a "touch of obstructive apnea":

    Put 2x4 blocks under the legs at the head of the bed
    Use a thinner pillow
    Stay hydrated
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  26. #26
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    I know i have some amount of apnea because I've woken up with heart racing and one time I had a very frightening nightmare that I was being strangled by Mr. Death. But only once. Sometimes I can feel in my throat the next day where my soft palate was choking off my airway. Nevertheless i would have to be dragged sedated, kicking and screaming to a sleep test, and there's no way I could sleep during one lol. When I stay active and don't drink much and sleep on my stomach I don't think the apnea is my problem. My SO might beg to differ, if I had one. My problem is major life stress, major financial stress, coming off a years long legal retaliation battle against a former employer and not winning, and being too old to do much about any of this except be more monkish.

    I watched my mom have apnea in her 80's and it was kind of scary. I saw her go for 30-60 seconds without a breath.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    So, my wife is a curious soul by nature (university professor) and has always been intrigued by the fact that I can and will drink coffee within minutes of getting into bed. Whereas she can't have any after about 2pm if she wants to be able to sleep after getting into bed at 10pm.

    She did a bunch of reading well outside her chosen field and determined that it basically boils down to genetics. Basically some people have a gene or series of genes that allow them to process caffeine at a significantly faster rate than most others.

    I'll see if I can get her to dig up the paper. IIRC it was a meta analysis of a bunch of other papers. I specifically remember one thing: AA genotype = fast metabolizers, and the AC and CC genotypes = slow metabolizers.
    or you can be as hyper as all get out and stimulants make you relax

    It was a newer thing, I struggled more with sleep as a younger person, twenty years ago I had a rash of insomnia, couldn't falla sleep, tried everything under the sun, then one day I started sleep again.

    These days I sleep pretty good, occasional problems with racing thoughts, sometimes heavy exercise keeps me awake.

    The coffee thing occurred to me a year ago when I noticed that if I had coffee at dinner, I was ready to hit the snooze button; I don't drink alcohol so when I went out with my wife she's drink beer and coffee was my treat

    So yeah, I'll have a coffee on nights when I want to sleep better, not more than once a week, and my sleep is much better with very little dreaming and I wake feeling great.

    Most of the time, people are sleeping poorly because they can't divert their thoughts, often these folks have problems with anxiety and struggle with letting things go.

    Being able to let things go is very important for mental health.
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  28. #28
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    I have no problem getting to sleep. But wake up between 4 and 5 and cant get back to sleep. Brain starts ticking over and thats it. No more sleep. I'm not an anxious person. I'm not thinking about things i cant change. I'm just generally thinking about interesting stuff.

    EG Should i get some max grip 2.6 minions and try them on my slayer? maybe 2.5's would be better..... I cant afford both..... but which one?

    Maybe i need to try some white noise?

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by plummet View Post
    I have no problem getting to sleep. But wake up between 4 and 5 and cant get back to sleep. Brain starts ticking over and thats it. No more sleep. I'm not an anxious person. I'm not thinking about things i cant change. I'm just generally thinking about interesting stuff.

    EG Should i get some max grip 2.6 minions and try them on my slayer? maybe 2.5's would be better..... I cant afford both..... but which one?

    Maybe i need to try some white noise?
    This is me to a T. Sometimes it's work stuff, other times it is normal day to day things, I just roll with it. Generally I sleep well to that point but if I wake up after about 330, I can forget about going back to sleep (get up at 5am anyway). I set my alarm for 530 as a fallback but have probably woken up to it once in the last 5 years.

  30. #30
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    I am a life long insomniac, I now try to avoid caffeine entirely

    I had a prescription for Ambien for awhile.. it is bad news at least for me... I took a ambein while staying in a hotel during a work event, apparently (as I do not remember really) I needed to use the restroom and slipped and fell, shoulder checking the toilet upper reservoir tank, shattered it into 100s of tiny fragments.. I would have been fine (small bruise on shoulder) except one of the fragments cut the artery in my right ring finger and blood started spraying all over the place.. looked like a murder scene.

    My wife was with me and called 911 I got rushed to the ER.... I could have died... I was super in and out with the ambulance ride and in the ER... Funny story .. I got to make an Archer (best cartoon ever) reference in the ER as the EMT's sent a photo of the accident scene to the ER doctor who said: "you really destroyed that toilet" to which I replied "PHRASING"!

    I have a big scar on that finger and basically no feeling in it now... it is annoying..




    I'd personally not recommend ambien / be VERY careful seeing how it affects you if you must.
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  31. #31
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    Avoid caffeine
    Avoid sugar
    Avoid screens like your TV and your cell phone and your computer after 5 or 6pm
    Turn the lights down at night
    Keep your bedroom cool
    Leave your cell phone out of the bedroom
    Working out in the morning helps
    Routine is important
    If you have racing thoughts, then get checked out by a doctor for anxiety, or a.d.d. or a.d.h.d.

  32. #32
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    For every horror story about Ambien there are hundreds of successes.

    I don't generally start with Ambien as there are so many other choices, but when I do prescribe it I start it at a lower dose.

    In terms of people who have a negative response, think of it this way:

    What medication(s) has the greatest likelihood of a serious side effect?

    Antibiotics.

    So yeah, bucket of salt and all that ... Ambien works great for some folks.

    Quote Originally Posted by atarione View Post

    I had a prescription for Ambien for awhile.. it is bad news at least for me...
    I'd personally not recommend ambien / be VERY careful seeing how it affects you if you must.
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by plummet View Post
    I have no problem getting to sleep. But wake up between 4 and 5 and cant get back to sleep. Brain starts ticking over and thats it. No more sleep. I'm not an anxious person. I'm not thinking about things i cant change. I'm just generally thinking about interesting stuff.

    EG Should i get some max grip 2.6 minions and try them on my slayer? maybe 2.5's would be better..... I cant afford both..... but which one?

    Maybe i need to try some white noise?
    Yes, Maxx 2.6 Minion DHF, just got one that I'll use on the front, regular 2.6 DHF out back, so excited to get them out and push it a bit!

    So check it out, I have some 2.5 WT that measured as wide as the 2.6, so is it advertising or is the mold different??

    Depends on the rim choice too .... so much to think about at 4am
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  34. #34
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    Obviously this is just a guess but maybe your diaphram is jammed.
    When we look at most cats and babies it is obvious their breathing is located in their belley. Try to relearn that wich is our normal.
    I would go on youtube, search yoga deep breathing. Practice about 5 min 4-5 times daily and let me know if it is easy or if it is not natural for you.
    You can also simply lay flat on the floor, preheat the room if needed or put a blanket on the floor to avoid feeling cold. Just put a small light book on your belley just lower than your belley button and breathe using only your nose, push the book up and let the air out and repeat for a few minutes. You could also practice in a warm bath, heath is a relaxing factor.

    Also your Ph might be too acid, just eat tons of fresh veggies to reverse that toxicity. Anything you can find celery, cucombers etc.. but fresh. It can be raw but not cold or steamed. So when your blood and breating is correct i bet you will sleep like a child just naturaly. Use no restriction for the first month, you feel sleepy = you sleep, no watch, no alarm manages your body. You need it just like all human but you are stuck on a bad pattern.

  35. #35
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    Ya, I was going to mention that before, greens make me sleep. The more, the better/deeper I sleep. I believe it's the chlorophyll but not sure.

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  36. #36
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    A low testosterone level can cause sleep problems. Have it checked.

  37. #37
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    No I haven't, as I write this I'm sleepy haha how ironic.
    Forgot the quote, it was the sleep study.
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuse6F View Post
    A low testosterone level can cause sleep problems. Have it checked.
    Well, I'm the right age so maybe I'll do that as well.
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by 33red View Post
    Obviously this is just a guess but maybe your diaphram is jammed.
    When we look at most cats and babies it is obvious their breathing is located in their belley. Try to relearn that wich is our normal.
    I would go on youtube, search yoga deep breathing. Practice about 5 min 4-5 times daily and let me know if it is easy or if it is not natural for you.
    You can also simply lay flat on the floor, preheat the room if needed or put a blanket on the floor to avoid feeling cold. Just put a small light book on your belley just lower than your belley button and breathe using only your nose, push the book up and let the air out and repeat for a few minutes. You could also practice in a warm bath, heath is a relaxing factor.

    Also your Ph might be too acid, just eat tons of fresh veggies to reverse that toxicity. Anything you can find celery, cucombers etc.. but fresh. It can be raw but not cold or steamed. So when your blood and breating is correct i bet you will sleep like a child just naturaly. Use no restriction for the first month, you feel sleepy = you sleep, no watch, no alarm manages your body. You need it just like all human but you are stuck on a bad pattern.
    How appropriate I'm a cat person, sounds like something I could try. Thanks
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    Thanks guys

    Well in a way, I don't feel as bad thinking I'm the only one. I tried man things on here but several are new and interesting. The most ironic thing about this, is that my wife sleeps like a hibernating bear.

    She is out cold, doesn't hear or feel you, can wake up and go back to sleep on the blink of an eye, is almost like magic so freaking jealous of her. She has a stressful job, but it doesn't matter.

    I do have a fear of drugs, habit forming stuff so I'll keep trying with natural, breathing not whatever foods and see what happens. Got some big races coming up, need to get it sorted out.
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    I can't sleep right now....lol

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    This is no joke, my dad slept with a thermos filled with coffee so when he woke up in the middle of the night he will drink it. His whole life.
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    Quote Originally Posted by moab63 View Post
    This is no joke, my dad slept with a thermos filled with coffee so when he woke up in the middle of the night he will drink it. His whole life.
    Well, that may not be a joke but it's damn funny !

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    Quote Originally Posted by edubfromktown View Post
    I did... findings were that I have a very mild sleep apnea condition. They recommended I give a CPAP a try which I did for a few months. It was no help and quite unwieldy/uncomfortable. My wife worked in sleep medicine for a number of years and had me try different routines, etc.

    Her sleep quality has diminished in recent years as well. At this point we are chalking it up to being over 50 with a good helping of work/life stress that comes from living in a major metropolitan area.

    We definitely want to get the heck out of Dodge at some point and I'm thinking Missoula, MT would be an awesome downshift from East Coast frenetic pace BS
    Seems worse than 'mild' but I'm no sleep doc.
    I've been on pause, but I'm shaking off the rust...

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Yes, Maxx 2.6 Minion DHF, just got one that I'll use on the front, regular 2.6 DHF out back, so excited to get them out and push it a bit!

    So check it out, I have some 2.5 WT that measured as wide as the 2.6, so is it advertising or is the mold different??

    Depends on the rim choice too .... so much to think about at 4am
    Indeed.

    Maxterra or max grip? I'm thinking maxgrip for the next tire trial.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt4x4 View Post
    Avoid caffeine
    Avoid sugar
    Avoid screens like your TV and your cell phone and your computer after 5 or 6pm
    Turn the lights down at night
    Keep your bedroom cool
    Leave your cell phone out of the bedroom
    Working out in the morning helps
    Routine is important
    If you have racing thoughts, then get checked out by a doctor for anxiety, or a.d.d. or a.d.h.d.
    Plus no screen time for hours before bed etc. I can see how this helps getting to sleep.

    But what about the dude like me who easily gets to sleep and then wakes up too early?
    Does stuff like screen time before bed affect waking up early?

    what can specifically help the early waker?

    PS I dont do refined sugar or caffiene. I wake up early regardless of screens or not.

    Or am I just a morning person with nothing wrong with me? Maybe 10.30-11 to 4-5 is my lot in life?

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    As mentioned...see a doctor or sleep specialist.

    My mother had problems sleeping, but those went away when she started taking a Dramamine (motion sickness - not the non-sleepy formula) before bed and it never seemed to have side effects. The times I've taken Benadryl (diphenhydramine) for allergies, or Nytol (doxylamine) for a cold, after a couple of days I started to get depressed and "dopey" from it.

    When I add any natural supplement, I talk to my pharmacist first, just to see if it's safe. Sometimes, you can get unpleasant interactions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by plummet View Post
    Plus no screen time for hours before bed etc. I can see how this helps getting to sleep.

    But what about the dude like me who easily gets to sleep and then wakes up too early?
    Does stuff like screen time before bed affect waking up early?

    what can specifically help the early waker?

    PS I dont do refined sugar or caffiene. I wake up early regardless of screens or not.

    Or am I just a morning person with nothing wrong with me? Maybe 10.30-11 to 4-5 is my lot in life?
    In my opinion i see things quite simply.
    Society trains us from 3 years old to be regular because it makes us managable.
    If you wake up to pee, pee get in bed, close your eyes.
    If your brain is alert, do stuff. If you are tired later, sleep, nap, do not focus on your watch or what is ***standard***. Others animals rest as needed, be smart do the same. I am energized by the sun, often i am up pedaling and enjoying the sunrise, even the moon some minutes earlier. Your needs are your needs, period.

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    Quote Originally Posted by plummet View Post
    Indeed.

    Maxterra or max grip? I'm thinking maxgrip for the next tire trial.
    The one Mikesee sent me is MaxxTerra, the MaxxGrip would be cool but I'd wear it out too fast. Out back I'm running the EXO TR for durability. I wore out a DHR and HR waaay too fast when riding Moab kinda stuff.
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    Blue light from the screens really messes with ya.
    Waking up in the middle of the night, could very well be sleep apnea, or some other medical condition. There are sleep institutes that can analyze your pysiologicals while sleeping. Sleep apnea test is easy to do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    Ya, I was going to mention that before, greens make me sleep. The more, the better/deeper I sleep.
    The green helps me sleep too, especially a good Indica.

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    Quote Originally Posted by andytiedye View Post
    The green helps me sleep too, especially a good Indica.
    I am in Canada and a doctor was saying each year he spends a month up north and works with our amerindiens. The older ones are the healthier because they live 5 months in nature. No stores to buy food they eat what they catch.
    When we eat from boxes and cans we generate all kinds of problems. Just look any city in north america is full of pharmacies, clinics, general doctors, some for the back, the eyes and so on. I try to buy items(no ingredients listed) like potatoes, carots, onions, beans, lentils so i sleep like a baby. I generaly wake up with a smile. Often we create our problems until we realize stopping something is the solution.
    Happy trails

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    ... and then there's the old person sleep thing which is real and can be a problem.

    Racing thoughts, whatever the cause, are the single biggest cause of sleep delays as well as problems with falling back to sleep.

    How to avoid racing thoughts ... um, try not to think about things you can't change, and avoid exposure to things that trigger your thinking about things you can't change. So avoid stressful encounters, avoid stressful social media, avoid stress.

    For folks who have a "touch of obstructive apnea":

    Put 2x4 blocks under the legs at the head of the bed
    Use a thinner pillow
    Stay hydrated
    Great suggestions- thanks...

    Racing thoughts are definitely a problem in my line of work... corp cloud and IT security field

    I've read books about putting things a way in a box and other sorts of compartmentalization strategies. Some have been helpful but there are certain times I just wake up.

    Some of my colleagues do not sleep more than a few hours per night like for YEARS. I don't know how they do it. If I'm running on less than 5 hours for a few days, it gets ugly real quick. Thankfully that hasn't been the case for quite some time.
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    Yes, eating pure foods instead of any processed foods help in sleeping. That is common sense. Most don't do it, if they even know the chemical problem in processed foods. Most will just put it to the wayside and munch down on them Oreo's.

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    So about racing thoughts, really any thoughts, there comes a point at which thinking about something is not beneficial, which leads to them being harmful.

    So thinking about a work related issue: Have you already thought about it at work? Is thinking about it at home going to solve it? Probably not, but what it will do is increase stress, reduce relaxation, and possibly disturb your sleep. Racing thoughts that keep you awake are a huge problem because it increases your stress and reduces your stress relief (sleep).

    In a typical day, we put aside certain thoughts; the vast majority of the things we think about fall into this category. What is unique about the thoughts we don't put aside is that we stay "interested" in these thoughts.

    So what would interest someone in thinking about the past? Maybe it's a unresolved issue, something that you regret, or maybe something you would like to do over.

    The key to putting aside these thoughts is coming to a closure with them and allowing them to be what they are: history.

    It may seem like it's helpful to relieve the past, at times it can even be fun, but the majority of the time it is harmful because these thoughts are often associated with negative feelings.

    So yeah, avoid thinking about things that make you feel bad, take control of your thoughts.

    And yes, it's easier said than done, but if you learn how to put away negative thoughts then you will be more relaxed and be happier

    Quote Originally Posted by edubfromktown View Post
    Great suggestions- thanks...

    Racing thoughts are definitely a problem in my line of work... corp cloud and IT security field

    I've read books about putting things a way in a box and other sorts of compartmentalization strategies. Some have been helpful but there are certain times I just wake up.

    Some of my colleagues do not sleep more than a few hours per night like for YEARS. I don't know how they do it. If I'm running on less than 5 hours for a few days, it gets ugly real quick. Thankfully that hasn't been the case for quite some time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by andytiedye View Post
    The green helps me sleep too, especially a good Indica.
    Both strains light my brain up, which is fine. I would be interested in trying the CBcheebs for sleep though most everything has a stimulating effect on me.

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    Meditation works well in decreasing anxiety, depression and racing thoughts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt4x4 View Post
    Meditation works well in decreasing anxiety, depression and racing thoughts.
    But what if you enjoy racing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    So about racing thoughts, really any thoughts, there comes a point at which thinking about something is not beneficial, which leads to them being harmful.

    So thinking about a work related issue: Have you already thought about it at work? Is thinking about it at home going to solve it? Probably not, but what it will do is increase stress, reduce relaxation, and possibly disturb your sleep. Racing thoughts that keep you awake are a huge problem because it increases your stress and reduces your stress relief (sleep).

    In a typical day, we put aside certain thoughts; the vast majority of the things we think about fall into this category. What is unique about the thoughts we don't put aside is that we stay "interested" in these thoughts.

    So what would interest someone in thinking about the past? Maybe it's a unresolved issue, something that you regret, or maybe something you would like to do over.

    The key to putting aside these thoughts is coming to a closure with them and allowing them to be what they are: history.

    It may seem like it's helpful to relieve the past, at times it can even be fun, but the majority of the time it is harmful because these thoughts are often associated with negative feelings.

    So yeah, avoid thinking about things that make you feel bad, take control of your thoughts.

    And yes, it's easier said than done, but if you learn how to put away negative thoughts then you will be more relaxed and be happier
    I hear ya... not so much negative thoughts. Biggest challenge with the day job is that all the tech stuff was made by HUMANS so there are bugs, misconfigurations, vulnerabilities, etc.

    Life stress is more about the cares that infest the day as Wadsworth so eloquently put it. Except that in my case, they do not all fold their tents
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    Do you think with all the modern technological "conveniences" we have life is less stressful?

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    Quote Originally Posted by edubfromktown View Post
    I hear ya... not so much negative thoughts. Biggest challenge with the day job is that all the tech stuff was made by HUMANS so there are bugs, misconfigurations, vulnerabilities, etc.

    Life stress is more about the cares that infest the day as Wadsworth so eloquently put it. Except that in my case, they do not all fold their tents
    A good way to control our mind is to control our body and breath.
    15 minutes of tai-chi or yoga or breathing will transform anybody.
    OK maybe not tonite but with practice it will work.
    I remember when i started taichi the class started on the ground to relax
    and most times i was napping.
    Find a good teacher or use youtube and you can improve your quality of life and sleep.

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    New question here.

    Quote Originally Posted by OldBlue950 View Post
    Do you think with all the modern technological "conveniences" we have life is less stressful?
    We, as in the more industrialized nations, yeah, I think we have more stress because we have made our lives too complicated and too expensive, so there arenít many low stress/low cost lifestyles for folks who want out.

    I see a fair number of folks who are homeless, lots of folks on disability, a handful who live off the grid. Itís hard to judge who is happier, the folks who are well off but can only remain so by working or those who have little but donít have to work to maintain it.

    I have two graduate degrees in the social sciences, my dissertation was on the social foundations of the American Dream. My premise was that the home ownership was not beneficial to the citizenry, but simply a means to grow the economy. Itís no mystery that home ownership is driving force in a political economy, whereas most other industrialized nations are focused on long term rentals and leases.

    I think humans could be satisfied with less economic wealth and greater social wealth, but Iím at a loss as to how this change would come about. I think capitalism will ultimately fail because itís based on a false premise: that the wealth of a few will trickle down to the many. Income disparity is growing while at the same it is becoming more expensive to live.

    Our economic engine is fed by cheap natural resources. What happens when the nationís resources are exhausted?

    Surprisingly, this stuff ^ no longer keeps me awake 
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    I once asked an older gentleman what his first house cost. He said 2x annual salary. I said mine was 4x annual salary. I asked if it had anything to do with having both the husband and wife working today. He replied it was not common for the wife to work when he bought his first house.

    Does it seem like we may have traded the ability to be a traditional mother and wife for more family stress and kids raised in day care.

    Adding it up = we need to work harder for the same resources.

    I should get some sleep!

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by 33red View Post
    A good way to control our mind is to control our body and breath.
    15 minutes of tai-chi or yoga or breathing will transform anybody.
    OK maybe not tonite but with practice it will work.
    I remember when i started taichi the class started on the ground to relax
    and most times i was napping.
    Find a good teacher or use youtube and you can improve your quality of life and sleep.
    Didn't work for me

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    Quote Originally Posted by NordieBoy View Post
    Didn't work for me
    I wish you luck.
    My girlfriend had some health issues so she tried improving her diet, a tai-chi class but left because he was simply a guy practicing not helpfull at all.
    Tried an other tai-chi class and it was helping her.
    Out of curiousity i went and a real teacher simply helps people.
    Her or his energy level improves the energy level of all in the class.
    I also experiencd that in Yoga.
    A real teacher made me do an advanced position/asana
    even if i was not advanced.
    The energy is invisible but it is real.
    Maybe go to a health food store, ask, look at free ads on the wall.
    They are everywhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    We, as in the more industrialized nations, yeah, I think we have more stress because we have made our lives too complicated and too expensive, so there arenít many low stress/low cost lifestyles for folks who want out.
    Fire lookout. That's my out.

    I see a fair number of folks who are homeless, lots of folks on disability, a handful who live off the grid. Itís hard to judge who is happier, the folks who are well off but can only remain so by working or those who have little but donít have to work to maintain it.
    Not saying either end has the happiness advantage, esp the homeless who don't seem very happy to me, but a lot of people in the middle definitely don't.

    I have two graduate degrees in the social sciences, my dissertation was on the social foundations of the American Dream. My premise was that the home ownership was not beneficial to the citizenry, but simply a means to grow the economy. Itís no mystery that home ownership is driving force in a political economy, whereas most other industrialized nations are focused on long term rentals and leases.
    I agree with your thesis, but would go even farther. Mortgages are the biggest scam in history. What else can a person spend 30 years of their life paying off just for the privilege of having a place to stay? I'm not sure renting is any better though...at least with ownership you aren't flushing ALL of it down the toilet like you do with rent, just a large chunk of it.

    But this is the price people convince themselves they are willing to pay, for a lifestyle they may want but don't need.

    I think humans could be satisfied with less economic wealth and greater social wealth, but Iím at a loss as to how this change would come about. I think capitalism will ultimately fail because itís based on a false premise: that the wealth of a few will trickle down to the many. Income disparity is growing while at the same it is becoming more expensive to live.
    I quoted Wendell Berry before, in this thread I think. You should read him.

    Our economic engine is fed by cheap natural resources. What happens when the nationís resources are exhausted?

    Trump signs executive order to support moon mining


    https://www.space.com/trump-moon-min...ive-order.html

    Surprisingly, this stuff ^ no longer keeps me awake 
    Me neither, but I think about all day.

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    I choosed to live simply 30 years ago. Now at 62 i never regretted it ounce.
    There is a price.
    In my opinion trying to buy happiness is too pricy.
    It is like 2 kids who want a toy.
    Always pulling never winning.
    Earning a little, having lots of free time = less stress = more health.
    No fear to loose. I enjoy more sunrises and am happier than some
    millionaires i know.
    No phone, no car, no credit last 20 years.
    Just a few bikes and an old laptop.

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    One cup of coffee in the morning and no more caffeine. Exercise and mental happiness throughout the day. No more than 1 drink in there evening, less if you don't weigh much or are a female. Go to sleep by reading, not a computer or a phone. If you wake up and can't go back to sleep, get straight up and start on your day full speed ahead.
    Was a chronic insomniac from childhood due to insecurity and inactivity but have completely corrected that as an adult and sleep like a baby now.

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    One thing about caffeine, it takes a while to work out of your system.

    Every so often, say once a month maybe, I'll skip a day of coffee drinking.
    I find it helps a lot.

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    This is definitely a fifty and over forum because not one mention of sex before bedtime! Sex is the best stress reliever I know of and I sleep like a baby afterwards. Unfortunately my wife likes to have sex in the morning so I sleep half the freaking day away! WTH!

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    Thatís because sex is better in the middle of the day, after coffee and a ride, you come home, take shower and hop in the sack, then you have the rest of the day to putter.

    Nighttime sex is for kids, I gotta work in the morning!

    Quote Originally Posted by motovet144 View Post
    This is definitely a fifty and over forum because not one mention of sex before bedtime! Sex is the best stress reliever I know of and I sleep like a baby afterwards. Unfortunately my wife likes to have sex in the morning so I sleep half the freaking day away! WTH!
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    Its all about routine and doing things that promote sleep and not hinder it.
    Drinking a Red Bull at 7pm is going to hinder sleep.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by motovet144 View Post
    This is definitely a fifty and over forum because not one mention of sex before bedtime! Sex is the best stress reliever I know of and I sleep like a baby afterwards. Unfortunately my wife likes to have sex in the morning so I sleep half the freaking day away! WTH!
    Lol so true.
    Sleep great after

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    its a 50+ forum cause we are staying up at night worried about our teenage sons and daughters having sex.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuse6F View Post
    its a 50+ forum cause we are staying up at night worried about our teenage sons and daughters having sex.
    There is hope...
    at 60 U can have lots of 65-77
    sleeping is not the focus
    we just use naps

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    https://www.caffeineinformer.com/the...fe-of-caffeine
    Caffeine is no different and takes a certain amount of time to work through your system and be metabolized by your liver. One study showed that the half-life of caffeine in healthy adults is 5.7 hours (see source). This means if you consume 200 mg of caffeine at mid-day, you would still have 100 mg in you at around 5:45 pm.

    The same study mentioned above showed that people with compromised liver function had a significantly longer half-life (a 49-year-old woman having alcoholic hepatic disease had a serum half-life of 168 hours)

    Others can have genetic factors influencing the gene responsible for caffeine metabolism. The gene CYP1A2 is needed by the liver breakdown up to 95% of the caffeine in the body. Other genes can influence how well this gene does its job (src).

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuse6F View Post
    its a 50+ forum cause we are staying up at night worried about our teenage sons and daughters having sex.
    At this age I think most of us have adult children, so if they're having sex all I can say is get me some damn grand kids or we're using up your inheritance!
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  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by motovet144 View Post
    This is definitely a fifty and over forum because not one mention of sex before bedtime!...
    In my fifties I was looked forward to turning 60.

    What a disappointment being a sexagenarian turned out to be.

    And 69 was an even bigger let down...
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  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuse6F View Post
    its a 50+ forum cause we are staying up at night worried about our teenage sons and daughters having sex.
    Damn you! I have 2 teenage daughters..... now I can't sleep!

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    .....
    Last edited by Stormwalker; 05-12-2020 at 01:15 PM.

  82. #82
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    How has the recommendations for a good nights sleep affected your sleeping pattern ?

  83. #83
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    If I doze off during the afternoon or evening, even for a millisecond, I have a helluva time trying to sleep that night. I require 8-9 hours to function at %100, always have. My understanding is a lot of tribal cultures wake up during the night/early AM for an extended period before going back to sleep. At any rate, being mindful of most things mentioned here has been plenty successful at curing my bouts of insomnia. Methinks if you're considering pharmaceutical drugs with side effects to achieve the most basic and natural biological function you may want to take some time to really evaluate your life.

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  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    If I doze off during the afternoon or evening, even for a millisecond, I have a helluva time trying to sleep that night. I require 8-9 hours to function at %100, always have. My understanding is a lot of tribal cultures wake up during the night/early AM for an extended period before going back to sleep. At any rate, being mindful of most things mentioned here has been plenty successful at curing my bouts of insomnia. Methinks if you're considering pharmaceutical drugs with side effects to achieve the most basic and natural biological function you may want to take some time to really evaluate your life.

    Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk
    There are plenty of basic and natural biological functions that don't "function" well, for example eyesight, urination, bowels, hearing, etc...

    My point: Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

    Some people; actually quite a few people, struggle with sleep and it has nothing to do with schedule, structure, hygiene, lifestyle, etc...

    Don't judge others as you would judge yourself, we are not all alike in all cases.
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  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by plummet View Post
    Damn you! I have 2 teenage daughters..... now I can't sleep!
    LOL

    I have two daughter's in their 20's now, and I still have some hair left haha

    Jokes aside, I didn't worry about them all that much during the teen years. They were generally good about coming home when they said they would which was a great stress reliever!

    Good luck to you.
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  86. #86
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    I have always had a hard time going to sleep, and it has always been hard to get out of bed in the morning and go to work. Melotonin worked for years, but lately it seems to cause extremely dry eyes.
    I retired from 8-5 a few years ago and started staying up later. I don't try to fight it, just stay up till I get tired, usually 1 or 2, sleep till 9 or 10, that seems to work. Glad I don't have a regular job anymore. Remember the 60's; Don't want no war, Don't want no war, Don't want no job either.
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  87. #87
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    Do everything thats been suggested.
    Stay away from digital screens and televisions from 5pm onwards
    Turn your cell phone off at supper time
    Dont eat at night.
    Dont drink coffee or pop or anything with sugar in it
    Stay away from sugar.
    Have 3 meals a day, with light snacks in between.
    Work out at the gym
    theres always more to do to help sleep

    If you were to go out to the boonies, you'd start to go to be early and wake up early.

    When I go to the cabin, I go to bed real early because I am working hard, cutting logs, clearing land, swimming, boating, fishing, clearing snow, mowing grass, cleaning, not looking at the tv or computer screen or cell phone. By the end of the day I am tired.

    If I am at the computer all night long, watching TV, eating junk food, looking at the cell phone and did nothing all day, yeah I'd stay up until midnight or 1am, easy.

  88. #88
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    Have you guys thought about trying any CBD products to help with your insomnia? I'm a huge rider and actually make my own CBD stuff for myself and my traildog - born out of necessity - I use my 1500mg tincture about a half hour before bed, it seems to really help. I have also noticed how restful my sleep is when I've taken a CBD bath bomb the night before. If anyone's interested, DM me on IG @trailmindandbody and I'll hook you up with a free 75mg bath bomb with any order. These are hand made, small batch goods that are crafted for mountainbikers and their traildogs. Either way it's great to see our community supporting each other as we try to be our healthiest selves. I love the focus on meditation and mental health on this thread, and taking time to develop a 'nighttime routine' will help with restful sleep. Shred on!

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  89. #89
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    CBD and THC affects people differently so its worth a try. I know people that THC makes them sleepy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt4x4 View Post
    CBD and THC affects people differently so its worth a try. I know people that THC makes them sleepy.

    It's true that everyone's physiology is different and the same substance and amount won't have the same effect on everyone. THC in high doses is known to have a sedating effect, particularly strains that are an indica variety with the terpene myrcene present, which seem to interact with your brain's receptors responsible for your sleep and wake cycle.

    However, THC can also make users feel giddy, excited, and paranoid- it can be an intense experience for the uninitiated, and you have to know your source. Some THC strains will keep me wired until the wee hours of the morning. CBD counteracts this effect, and can be utilized at any time without fear of intoxication. It's all about finding the right strain, or ratio, between cbd and thc for each particular person.

    I hope everyone finds just what they need to get a restful night's sleep.

  91. #91
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    Yes, my 23andMe analysis clearly states that I do not process caffeine quickly due to genomics. As with most 23andMe results, they are things I figured out 40 years ago.

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by moab63 View Post
    ... very light sleep anything wakes me up then I can't go back to sleep.
    I never tired enough to fall sleep, even riding 20+hrs per week and work, actually makes it worst.
    I have become much more sensitive to caffeine these past 3 years.
    I would suggest that you may have the same or a similar problem. Any caffeine after 1 pm keeps me up or makes me wake up multiple times during the night.
    I can only drink one 32 ounce iced tea, no soda and no refined sugar at all.

    Try eliminating caffeine and sugar and see if you find it helps you rest better.

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    430p for a stimulant is kinda late in the day if you want to sleep well less than six hours later.

    Iíd knock off the stimulants at least eight hours before bedtime; ten to twelve hours is better.

    Some of us are lucky though, I drink coffee before bed and it knocks me out. True story.
    I had a gf who, like you, swore coffee put her to sleep. Now that I think back, maybe that was just an excuse.
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  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt4x4 View Post
    Get checked out by a sleep expert.
    Get the sleep apnea test.
    Go see your doctor.

    Herbals like
    - Valerian
    - Saint Johns Wart

    Countless prescription sleeping pills the docs push.
    Yeah, it's wort, not wart. Jeebus. Who wants to nibble on SJ's wart?
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  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by atarione View Post
    I am a life long insomniac, I now try to avoid caffeine entirely

    I had a prescription for Ambien for awhile.. it is bad news at least for me... I took a ambein while staying in a hotel during a work event, apparently (as I do not remember really) I needed to use the restroom and slipped and fell, shoulder checking the toilet upper reservoir tank, shattered it into 100s of tiny fragments.. I would have been fine (small bruise on shoulder) except one of the fragments cut the artery in my right ring finger and blood started spraying all over the place.. looked like a murder scene.

    My wife was with me and called 911 I got rushed to the ER.... I could have died... I was super in and out with the ambulance ride and in the ER... Funny story .. I got to make an Archer (best cartoon ever) reference in the ER as the EMT's sent a photo of the accident scene to the ER doctor who said: "you really destroyed that toilet" to which I replied "PHRASING"!

    I have a big scar on that finger and basically no feeling in it now... it is annoying..



    I'd personally not recommend ambien / be VERY careful seeing how it affects you if you must.
    Weird about the fingers- I had a 'bizarre gardening incident' years ago that severed the tendon and left the pinkie on my right hand curled up and basically useless, except for carrying a water bottle with a loop, lol. Can't pick my nose with that finger. Sooo bummed.

    Permanent insomnia-pinkie.jpg
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  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by plummet View Post
    But what if you enjoy being racist?
    This is my problem. My mind is racist at night and I can't get back to sleep!
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  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    In my fifties I was looked forward to turning 60.

    What a disappointment being a sexagenarian turned out to be.

    And 69 was an even bigger let down...
    If 69 is a disappointment, you're doing it wrong.
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  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finch Platte View Post
    I had a gf who, like you, swore coffee put her to sleep. Now that I think back, maybe that was just an excuse.
    Hi Finch Platte, sorry for interrupting your lovely conversation. I always thought that headache is an good excuse

    Because of my insomnia I decided to refuse from drinking coffee in large dosage. I thought it would be so hard. But it was in opposite. My doctor recommended me to take melatonin from https://www.vitaminexpress.org/uk/melatonin-supplements. I take melatonin 5mg for several years now. It helped me with my sleep. My information was it's a very good anti-oxidant, too. The serotonin metabolism might be affected since melatonin is converted into serotonin and vice versa (under usage of other substances). At least, that is my information.

    I had the feeling that it had some positive influence on my mood, too.

    My doctor was surprised I do well with only 5mg, she commonly prescribes up to 25mg.
    I think that everyone's body is unique, for someone it works, for someone not. I also was trying Ambien, and felt so sleepy. So I stopped.

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finch Platte View Post
    I had a gf who, like you, swore coffee put her to sleep. Now that I think back, maybe that was just an excuse.
    Definitely an excuse

  100. #100
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    I just spent a week in hospital. I slept 8 hours, only that was the TOTAL amount of sleep for the entire week. Now I know what you insomniacs mean. Its tough. I feel for you.
    Just call me Ray

  101. #101
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    Iíve got some patients who really struggle with sleep, one lady is in her eighties and canít sleep longer than thirty minutes at a time; itís literally making her sick. Tried her on all the major sleep aids, best we could do is three to four hours a night on Ambien 5mg.

    I got another lady who failed everything except high dose Seroquel, so far sheís doing okay, no crazy weight gain, and she feels better.

    My current population is on the older side, so sleep is more of an issue than when I was seeing young adults and kids.

    I feel fortunate that I sleep well.
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  102. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Iíve got some patients who really struggle with sleep, one lady is in her eighties and canít sleep longer than thirty minutes at a time; itís literally making her sick. Tried her on all the major sleep aids, best we could do is three to four hours a night on Ambien 5mg.

    I got another lady who failed everything except high dose Seroquel, so far sheís doing okay, no crazy weight gain, and she feels better.

    My current population is on the older side, so sleep is more of an issue than when I was seeing young adults and kids.

    I feel fortunate that I sleep well.
    In my area cannabis was legalized about 2 years ago. I did not try it i am healthy. Is it legal in your area? Does it helps to sleep?

  103. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by 33red View Post
    In my area cannabis was legalized about 2 years ago. I did not try it i am healthy. Is it legal in your area? Does it helps to sleep?
    Legal for medical. It 100% helps me sleep, but it has its own side effects. I am not 100% sold on using it as a permanent solution. For me there are still too many unknowns.

    Steve

  104. #104
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    I bought some hemp CBD oil (no THC) for an older friend of mine (70 ish) who has trouble sleeping, when i was in Oregon this summer. She says it helps. Not cheap though.

    I also picked up some high CBD content low THC content weed for my inner teenager. It barely gives me a buzz (and that's fine, because it also doesn't make me paranoid) but 1 or 2 tokes late in the evening seems to help me sleep. I'm not too keen on becoming a daily toker again though...

    Somebody who is not experienced with cannabis should not start out with a high THC product, which most are these days. Look for something with equal or greater amounts of CBD. Of course if you're buying from Vinnie on the corner you won't know what you're getting, so don't buy from Vinnie on the corner

  105. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldBlue950 View Post
    I bought some hemp CBD oil (no THC) for an older friend of mine (70 ish) who has trouble sleeping, when i was in Oregon this summer. She says it helps. Not cheap though.

    I also picked up some high CBD content low THC content weed for my inner teenager. It barely gives me a buzz (and that's fine, because it also doesn't make me paranoid) but 1 or 2 tokes late in the evening seems to help me sleep. I'm not too keen on becoming a daily toker again though...

    Somebody who is not experienced with cannabis should not start out with a high THC product, which most are these days. Look for something with equal or greater amounts of CBD. Of course if you're buying from Vinnie on the corner you won't know what you're getting, so don't buy from Vinnie on the corner
    Thanks for sharing.
    Our governement has stores just like liquor store but for canabis. My mom, 88 years old widow takes 9 pills daily so i suggested she try some probably edibles but she prefers giving $$ to big pharma. About 5 years ago i heard an interview, the doctor in Australia said she was prescibing it for 10 years and found it a great tool that can help people with many different problems.

  106. #106
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    I know that some edibles like gummies can have a very long-lasting effect (which is why I have never tried them), so people should probably start out with small amounts and build up slowly until they are sure that effect is desirable. For some people, it isn't.

    Despite being a long time user (heavy when I was young, extremely light to not at all in recent decades) I'm wary of all the amazing claims being made about cannabis products these days. It certainly has its uses but I think some of the claims are over the top.

  107. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by 33red View Post
    In my area cannabis was legalized about 2 years ago. I did not try it i am healthy. Is it legal in your area? Does it helps to sleep?
    Legal in Nevada.

    Does it help? Some of my clients think so, but if can also cause some problems: acute psychosis, mood swings, cyclical vomiting, anxiety, depression.

    Itís a drug, itís not a cure all, people are so wierd about THC and CBD, as if these substances can cure all our ills.

    Has anyone ever wondered what drives THC and CBD research and marketing?

    $$$$$$$$$$$
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  108. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by 33red View Post
    Thanks for sharing.
    Our governement has stores just like liquor store but for canabis. My mom, 88 years old widow takes 9 pills daily so i suggested she try some probably edibles but she prefers giving $$ to big pharma. About 5 years ago i heard an interview, the doctor in Australia said she was prescibing it for 10 years and found it a great tool that can help people with many different problems.
    Your 88 yo mother doesnít give dollars to big pharmacy, sheís on Medicare, who are you fooling?

    Your mother may know something you donít know, ie cannabis is no different now than it was when we were kids, except the government and investors have figured out how to make it profitable.

    The use of pharmaceuticals is so much more controlled and well researched than cannabis, itís a joke to suggest otherwise.

    If only cannabis was like you say, then I could give it to all my clients, Iím sure it can cure psychosis as easily as it cures blindness 🙄
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  109. #109
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    If it hasn't been recommended yet, I'll offer up GABA, the main inhibitory neurotransmitter in the brain. It's done wonders to regulate my sleep. It also is helpful for people with anxiety, and is considered a godsend for some who suffer from seizure disorders.

  110. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post

    Has anyone ever wondered what drives THC and CBD research and marketing?

    $$$$$$$$$$$

    Wow, THAT sounds like a unique situation.
    Just call me Ray

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