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  1. #101
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    So, as for boots...My boots with thinsulate 200g can get chilly depending on length of ride and air temperature (not to be confused with water temperature ). I found these toe warmers:

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    They slip over the sock and go just past the ball of your foot. They stay in place fine and the XLs do not constrict my size 12 foot at all. I do think they make my 200g boot work like a 400g boot.

    if you want to boost the warmth of your feet, something like this might be worth a shot before dumping $ into more insulated boots.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    So, as for boots...My boots with thinsulate 200g can get chilly depending on length of ride and air temperature (not to be confused with water temperature ). I found these toe warmers:

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    They slip over the sock and go just past the ball of your foot. They stay in place fine and the XLs do not constrict my size 12 foot at all. I do think they make my 200g boot work like a 400g boot.

    if you want to boost the warmth of your feet, something like this might be worth a shot before dumping $ into more insulated boots.
    I was just talking with a friend about this idea the other day, but couldn't remember where I'd seen it. Thanks for the link.
    "The only way we can truly control the outcome of a ride is not going on it, which is a choice I'm unwilling to make." -K.B.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smithhammer View Post
    I was just talking with a friend about this idea the other day, but couldn't remember where I'd seen it. Thanks for the link.
    It's especially nice to put them on over the chemical toe warmers.

  4. #104
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    [QUOTE=BlueCheesehead;13453334] I found these toe warmers:

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    They slip over the sock and go just past the ball of your foot. They stay in place fine and the XLs do not constrict my size 12 foot at all. I do think they make my 200g boot work like a 400g boot./QUOTE]

    They help, for sure, they also make it imperative that you buy the shoes a few sizes bigger, I recommend at least two, as one size bigger fits your winter socks, but you might need extra room for things like these, or to build up the insoles with sheepskins, etc. You can always build up, but when you start too small, things like this don't really work. They are a nice addition though, especially in milder conditions with regular riding shoes (not boots).
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  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by 300hp View Post
    K9 this is exactly what I wanted to hear! Did you order the same size sole as your snow boot? I ask because the kling-on is designed for wading boots, and they're usually sized different than regular boots (my Simms wading boots are an 11, but probably a 13 regular shoe)

    Thanks!!
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    The same size wader sole is used on the snow boot.

  6. #106
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    FYI for anyone still looking for boots, 20% off at ems.com today, plus 10% activejunky
    Rolling on 29", 650b, 8.3" and 23mm

  7. #107
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    I have been using Salomon Toundras for the past 2 season...never saw at the posted $280. Got them on sale for $80 in Canada no less, warm and lasting grip.

    Should point out that I sweat a lot and usually freeze hands and feet, but NEVER with these!!

    https://www.salomon.com/caus/product...article=381318

  8. #108
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    anyone ever use these? I may pull the trigger

    https://www.probikesllc.com/product/...s-307073-1.htm

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pasky 29 View Post
    I have been using Salomon Toundras for the past 2 season...never saw at the posted $280. Got them on sale for $80 in Canada no less, warm and lasting grip.

    Should point out that I sweat a lot and usually freeze hands and feet, but NEVER with these!!

    https://www.salomon.com/caus/product...article=381318
    They look interesting, specially the aerogel features.
    How cold did you ride with them ?
    Good breathability then but enough waterproof too?
    I am considering them as an alternative to the wolvhammer, for the 15 F.

    Did you need to get one or two sizes bigger for 2 pairs of socks?

  10. #110
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    I've ridden & snowshoed in -20C to -25C or -4F to -13 F.
    And toe is reinforced with rubber so yes very good waterproof...but never wore in warm weather...
    I wear a 9.5 and same size with a wicking sock and wool sock over...no issues!

  11. #111
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    I bought a set and I have a couple of rides in them. Easy to get on/off. I went up one size so I could go with thicker socks if needed, though I could fit in my normal size if I didn't need to use thicker socks. "400gram Thinsulate" claim is borderline false advertising, these are more Japanther than Wolvhammer/Wolvgar. I felt like my toes started to get cold during a 2hr ride in -7C, but I could still go up a couple levels in socks. No threads for toe spikes. I read some reviews that said the soles don't have very good grip, but they seem fine to me. Kept my feet dry and didn't overheat on a slushy ride last night.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by toadmeister View Post
    Just ordered a pair of these from Cabelas. Used a discount code I had and some Cabela's points, got a great deal: Cabela's Boaģ Snow Runnerô Max Boots

    Cabela's Boa¬ģ Snow Runner‚ĄĘ Max Boots : Cabela's
    How do they seem?

    After EMS cancelled my orders for the Merrell Thermo Vortex 8" boots I'm back hunting again.
    Rolling on 29", 650b, 8.3" and 23mm

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post

    They help, for sure, they also make it imperative that you buy the shoes a few sizes bigger, I recommend at least two, as one size bigger fits your winter socks, but you might need extra room for things like these, or to build up the insoles with sheepskins, etc. You can always build up, but when you start too small, things like this don't really work. They are a nice addition though, especially in milder conditions with regular riding shoes (not boots).
    I use them in my standard hiking boots and no issues with making my boots too tight or feeling cramped. At 1.5mm thick they are not real bulky. Granted, anything in a snug fitting shoe can turn it from snug to too tight.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6thElement View Post
    How do they seem?

    After EMS cancelled my orders for the Merrell Thermo Vortex 8" boots I'm back hunting again.
    I really like wearing them for a winter boot but still haven't made it on rhe bike with them.

    That Boa tightening/un-tightening system is fantastic!

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  15. #115
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    Anyone tried snowboarding boots? -just a thought as I have at least 2 pairs of defunct SB boots laying around that I've never tried for riding.


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  16. #116
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    Adidas outdoor is having a sale with some decent looking winter boot options Shop Now

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronhextall View Post
    Attachment 1171167

    Bought a pair of Mickey Mouse army surplus boots a couple years ago. Rate for 40 below zero.

    Not going to lie they are very bulky and heavy but damn my feet are warm and that is saying a lot with my feet.
    I wore those outside in -25į F temps when stationed in upstate NY.

    Pretty amazing.

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  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokee300 View Post
    Adidas outdoor is having a sale with some decent looking winter boot options Shop Now
    Thanks for posting! What an insanely good sale. Also didnít know that Adidas uses the same stealth rubber as FiveTen. Should be great for riding on flat pedals.


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  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by mn_biker View Post
    Thanks for posting! What an insanely good sale. Also didnít know that Adidas uses the same stealth rubber as FiveTen. Should be great for riding on flat pedals.


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    Im fairly certain that Adidas owns 5-10 now.

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by mn_biker View Post
    Thanks for posting! What an insanely good sale. Also didnít know that Adidas uses the same stealth rubber as FiveTen. Should be great for riding on flat pedals.


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    Looks a bit like a Kohls "sale" , over priced to start and then marked down to a reasonable cost.

    The Cabela's boots with 400g Thinsulate and Boa system are in the $100 range if I recall.

  22. #122
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    Those Addidas look to be the ultimate winter flat pedal boot if the Stealth rubber is still grippy in the cold!

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockiesRipper View Post
    Those Addidas look to be the ultimate winter flat pedal boot if the Stealth rubber is still grippy in the cold!
    I plan on finding out. Put a pair on order for $110 after they gave me an additional $20 welcome discount.


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  24. #124
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    FWIW, I have a pair of Specialized Defrosters. https://www.specialized.com/ca/en/de...=211112-117599

    I find they work for me down to about -14įC (7įF) with a liner sock, and thin wool sock. My buddies with the Wolvhammer seem to get cold feel at around the same temps as me.

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  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by slyfink View Post
    FWIW, I have a pair of Specialized Defrosters. https://www.specialized.com/ca/en/de...=211112-117599

    I find they work for me down to about -14įC (7įF) with a liner sock, and thin wool sock. My buddies with the Wolvhammer seem to get cold feel at around the same temps as me.
    Thanks, that should be good enough for me!

  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by monts View Post
    Thanks, that should be good enough for me!
    There is no way to tell, those minimalist "cold weather" boots like the specializeds where the cleat is very close to the ball of your foot are extremely cold for me and don't work in temps anywhere near 7, everyone is different here. You can do some things to give them the best chance of working for you, but it's far from a "sure shot". I hope it works for you.
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  27. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    There is no way to tell, those minimalist "cold weather" boots like the specializeds where the cleat is very close to the ball of your foot are extremely cold for me and don't work in temps anywhere near 7, everyone is different here. You can do some things to give them the best chance of working for you, but it's far from a "sure shot". I hope it works for you.
    Thanks for the info, I grabbed a pair at my LBS. around here Iíve heard good things but Iím not in extreme conditions, just looking for 20-25 degrees F protection

  28. #128
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    I finally took my pair of Cabelas snow boots for a short ride today. Was. VERY pleased with these.

    Just below or at Freezing the 400g Thinsulate with a light wool sock kept my toes and feet just right (neither cold nor hot).

    Traction is light but gripped my pedals just fine for trail riding.

    The boa lacing system I am a big fan of. Easy on, easy off.



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  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by monts View Post
    Thanks for the info, I grabbed a pair at my LBS. around here Iíve heard good things but Iím not in extreme conditions, just looking for 20-25 degrees F protection

    I have the Defrosters and really like them for cooler weather. They don't have a lot of insulation so calling them a true winter shoe is a stretch. Cold feet are my Achilles heel. The Defs are only good for me to about thirty F. They do have a very big toe box, so enough room for toe warmes stuck across the top of the toes.

    They would likely be good for most riders to about twenty F for a 1 1/2hr ride, I'd guess.

    Below 30 F we have snow and I'm then hitting the trails on skis.

  30. #130
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    Vasque Arrowheads work great for me. They have flattish sole and are light. I think they are discontinued but they're still available at the REI Garage and other clearance outlets.


  31. #131
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    Those are cool looking

  32. #132
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    I have the Cabelas Boas as well. Been on half a dozen rides; awesome boot for flat pedals at that price point. I've ridden down to 12F without once feeling a bite on my feet. Very light, nimble boot that is comfortable and warm. Quick on/off was icing on the cake!

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  33. #133
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    I don't think there is any hope for my cold feet. I bought the Columbia winter boot. it's great! It has 600g thinsulate and is a very light boot. The problem is my feet. I start my day out before my ride with a foot 71į temperature. Put on nice mid weight or heavy weight wool socks, then my Columbia (600g) boots. I ride for 80 minutes in temperatures around 15į. When I return my foot temperature is around 51į and cold. I've even tried battery heated socks and find them no help either. I think the only help would be the hand/foot warmers to put inside the boot. At outdoor temperatures around 25į my foot temperature is around 58į after a ride.
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  34. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by cman8 View Post
    I use some salomon insulated boots. These keep me very warm and toasty with some gaiter. I have also used some Columbia winter boots as well with the omniheat tech on them. I have never been cold in those with some wool socks. IMHO the bike specific brands like 45nrth are way overpriced. If you think about it they are just winter hiking boots
    Those Salomon boots...

    They looked good on paper - light weight, insulated, flat soled. But, tried a pair and found the toe box to be super tight for me which is a big no-no if trying to keep feet warm.

  35. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaleidopete View Post
    I don't think there is any hope for my cold feet. I bought the Columbia winter boot. it's great! It has 600g thinsulate and is a very light boot. The problem is my feet. I start my day out before my ride with a foot 71į temperature. Put on nice mid weight or heavy weight wool socks, then my Columbia (600g) boots. I ride for 80 minutes in temperatures around 15į. When I return my foot temperature is around 51į and cold. I've even tried battery heated socks and find them no help either. I think the only help would be the hand/foot warmers to put inside the boot. At outdoor temperatures around 25į my foot temperature is around 58į after a ride.
    Literally try Reynolds oven bags. I put oven bags on, then a real thin pair of wicking style socks (not that wicking matters with your foot in an oven bag) and a medium weight wool sock.

    I probably will upgrade my shoes to a pair of 45nrth but only because the shoes I have I bought on sale at just the right size for summer use. My feet get really cold, really fast. Adding 2 pairs of thicks socks, foot warmers and a thick sock, or anything like that - doesn't create enough air movement to keep my feet warm because they are so tight in my shoe. The foot warmers don't work well or at all if they are smushed into a tight space, even if left out in the air for 10 - 15 mins prior.

    So the oven bags is the only thing that allows me to use a thinner wool sock and have some space in the shoe. It's worked great for me for the most part. My shoes aren't great in the sole and I"m clipped in, so the oven bags work really well until it gets brutally cold but I think that's more because of the shoe than the oven bags.

    Worth trying.
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  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by ak-rider View Post
    You'd be way better off ditching the non-breathable bags. Oven Bags | Reynolds Kitchens

    Gore-tex and the other membranes allow moisture to escape, with oven-bags you are just soaking your feet in moisture and that's not helping you stay warm. Basically being dry is warm, being wet is cold.

    Whatever footwear you decide to go with, just make sure it isn't too tight and don't wear cotton socks and you'll be way more comfortable and warmer than you are presently.
    Agreed on the Goretex, feet gotta breathe!

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    i replaced the insoles with fleece insoles, $10 on amazon. I remove the felt pad from the fleecepad for more room. Iíved tried them in a few different bike shoes. Does a better job Insulating the bottom of my foot from the shoe.

  39. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky Mtn View Post
    I currently use a pair of north face snow hiking boots to ride in. The boots work fine and to date I have not had an issue of my feet getting cold.

    i keep thinking iíd Like to buy a pair of biking specific boots; however, the cost makes me feel faint.

    Is is there a reasonably priced ~$250 Canadian boot out there for something in a size 10 or so. My searching tells me no way, but just thought I would ask.

    i also really like the look north wave gran canion; however, based on my searches, it seems that those boots are almost non-existent for purchase via the internet.

    i should note that I ride flat pedals and I have no intention of changing and I live in Calgary, Alberta where winter temps can range from +5 to -25 Celsius.
    If you ride flat pedals and have no intention of changing stick with the boot that keep your feet warm.

    The bike specific boots are way overpriced for what they are.

  40. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockyJo1 View Post
    An insulated winter hiking boot is all you need. Just above the ankle anything higher and you're going to chafe. One good pair of wool socks and room in the boot for your toes to move. If you jamit in there it's going to freeze. And you have to dry the boot after every ride to get the moisture out of the lining and the insulation. If you drive to your biking destination don't wear your boots and change your socks before your Gear Up.
    ^^^This.

    My boots are 200g thinsulate winter hiking boots. Paired with merino wool socks and sized up 1 notch for air space between boot and toes.

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    I bought a pair of NorthWave Arctic celsius gt last year. I still see them for sale in the $150-200 U.S price range.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ak-rider View Post
    You'd be way better off ditching the non-breathable bags. Oven Bags | Reynolds Kitchens

    Gore-tex and the other membranes allow moisture to escape, with oven-bags you are just soaking your feet in moisture and that's not helping you stay warm. Basically being dry is warm, being wet is cold.

    Whatever footwear you decide to go with, just make sure it isn't too tight and don't wear cotton socks and you'll be way more comfortable and warmer than you are presently.
    Using oven bags is what's called a Vapor Barrier Lining system and in the right conditions it will keep your feet warmer by keeping your insulation dry. It's evaporation that makes you cold when you sweat. Also some insulative materials loose a lot of their effectiveness when they get wet. It doesn't seem like it will work, but it definitely does. Many companies sell unbreathable socks, clothing, and even sleeping bag liners specifically for this.

    It's definitely worth trying since you can use any plastic bag.

    https://andrewskurka.com/2011/vapor-...y-application/

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    And don't overlook that ripe foot smell when you unwrap them...

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    Even Mike Curiak recommends a VBL bag:

    https://fat-bike.com/2012/05/warm-fe...y-mike-curiak/

    Quote Originally Posted by MC
    The point of the VBL is to keep the sweat produced by your foot from soaking and degrading your insulation. Once your insulation is wet, your feet are cold. Period.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ak-rider View Post
    Interesting article but as he mentions at the end, itís for a specialized application and likely overkill for most people. .... Iíd think if it were that simple, we all be wearing xtratuff boots and Helly Hanson rain gear for every single outdoor activity.
    Which argument are you making? Is it specialized or not?

    Several mountaineering companies (Rab, Exped, etc) make VBL socks. Lots of people use plastic bags. This isn't an urban myth - it works very well when its very cold.

    And anyone can try it for basically free, for less time investment than naysaying on the internet.

  48. #148
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    The logic of keeping the insulation as dry as possible makes complete sense. Combine that with restricting evaporative cooling and the VBL makes total sense from a heat retention perspective. However, stewing in one's own juices may not be comfortable. One individual may value warmth over sweaty grossness. In extreme situations, life and limb may literally depend on it.

    As with anything, there are compromises and what is ideal for one person and situation may be different for another person or situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ak-rider View Post
    But by all means you should try it.
    I have. That's why I'm recommending it. Bagel bags worked well.

  51. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by ak-rider View Post
    You'd be way better off ditching the non-breathable bags. Oven Bags | Reynolds Kitchens

    Gore-tex and the other membranes allow moisture to escape, with oven-bags you are just soaking your feet in moisture and that's not helping you stay warm. Basically being dry is warm, being wet is cold.

    Whatever footwear you decide to go with, just make sure it isn't too tight and don't wear cotton socks and you'll be way more comfortable and warmer than you are presently.
    No. I've tried everything for years between xc skiing and fat biking. When I decided to try the oven bags last year it was a night and day difference in how long I could keep my feet comfortable, how cold of temps I could ride in, and how long I could ride in cold temps.

    So this is what works for me. I've tried everything else, so I wouldn't be better off trying some other method I've been caught miles from my car with dangerously cold toes trying.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ak-rider View Post

    Iím kinda curious about the VLB concept. Iím skeptical because it goes against everything outdoor clothing manufacturers have produced for the past 40 years. Iíd think if it were that simple, we all be wearing xtratuff boots and Helly Hanson rain gear for every single outdoor activity.
    Except with Xtra Tuffs and Helly Hansons your insulation is on the wet side of the vapor barrier, not the ideal location.
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  53. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr.welby View Post
    Which argument are you making? Is it specialized or not?

    Several mountaineering companies (Rab, Exped, etc) make VBL socks. Lots of people use plastic bags. This isn't an urban myth - it works very well when its very cold.

    And anyone can try it for basically free, for less time investment than naysaying on the internet.
    It works for you very well when it's very cold. For me, my feet sweat, the boots cold soak, and my feet are brought down to the temp of the boots/outside. This is due to poor circulation and a sport that doesn't really force any blood to your feet/toes (unlike running, etc.), so while it may work for you, that doesn't mean it's the solution for others.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    It works for you very well when it's very cold. For me, my feet sweat, the boots cold soak, and my feet are brought down to the temp of the boots/outside. This is due to poor circulation and a sport that doesn't really force any blood to your feet/toes (unlike running, etc.), so while it may work for you, that doesn't mean it's the solution for others.
    Interestingly my feet have very poor circulation but sweat/get clammy regardless. Really weird. I think that's why the oven bags work for me personally. Every other method I still end up with moisture in the socks or interior of the boots which then gets cold and freezes my feet. Wicking socks sound great but the sweat isn't magically being wicked out of the boots. The oven bags definitely make my feet sweat and sometimes when I take my socks off and have the oven bag left on my foot, there are puddles of sweat inside. But that sweat doesn't freeze in the bags like it will off from the foot and my feet stay warm.
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  56. #156
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    hmmm...reading about the vapor barrier/bag thing made me think...When I used to do that waaayyy back in the day for cross country skiing, we would put the bag on after a sock...I have never heard of anyone putting the bag on first, then the sock over the bag....that would drive my feet absolutely bonkers...

    I also remember HATING having the bags on my feet, and only did it b/c my dad and grandpa made me. It never worked, and made my feet slide around in the boots...ugh. Iam tryign to remember if the socks got soaked with sweat as well...

    now it is just base layer type sock and my salomon hiker shoes (hoping to get the Bugaboots for C-mas...) heck,when I go ice skating on ponds, I go barefoot in the skates...I do that in the rink as well. Have always skated with no socks. My feet never get cold this way, but on skates I am not going though snow/rain like on my bike
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    My issue with getting cold feet shows up at work for me a lot. My feet sweat a lot, then I sit for long periods of time which limits circulation, then the wet boots get cold and I'm flat out miserable for 8 of my 10 hour shift. I started wearing the RBH vapor barrier socks at work. I wear them over a light wool liner sock. I had to size up my boots two sizes to get a good fit. I can feel the sweat on my feet, but my feet don't get nearly as cold as they used to. Most nights they now stay darn right toasty. I haven't felt like I was swimming in my own sweat like some people have mentioned. It worked for me.

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    I was out a few times this past week in single digits F and even doing ~900ft downhills I had warm feet in the Merrell's I picked up.

    Nice flat soles for pedals and good traction in the snow off the bike.

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    I found a Christmas Day promo for 30% off and, with much deliberation, bought a pair of Wolvhammers. I wear a size 13, but I was actually surprised how light they felt on my neighborhood street test. I should get a chance to get them out in the snow this week.


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    Quote Originally Posted by ak-rider View Post
    You'd be way better off ditching the non-breathable bags. Oven Bags | Reynolds Kitchens

    Gore-tex and the other membranes allow moisture to escape, with oven-bags you are just soaking your feet in moisture and that's not helping you stay warm. Basically being dry is warm, being wet is cold.

    Whatever footwear you decide to go with, just make sure it isn't too tight and don't wear cotton socks and you'll be way more comfortable and warmer than you are presently.
    The theory behind the bags (or any vapor barrier) is that they create a microclimate wherein once the feet are wet, they stop sweating and keeping the sweat out of the socks keeps the insulation dry and, thus, insulating.

    I've experimented with vapor barriers and have had good results... provided that the VB doesn't get even a micro hole in it... then the sweat starts moving out and the feet start sweating again and then get cold.

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    Finally got put in the snow with my Cabelas boa snow boots. Worked great! Temps were 4-deg above zero Farenheight and I kept warm with 2 layers of wool socks.

    Just the right amount of grip, not too much, not too little.


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    Not all merino wool socks are created equal look at the wool content, Socks having a 10% merino wool content claim to be merino wool but a higher wool content is needed preferably 70% or higher.

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    Good article on merino vs. "regular" wool. Seems the only advantage may be that merino is "softer":

    Wood Trekker: Merino Wool vs. Regular Wool Insulation
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Good article on merino vs. "regular" wool. Seems the only advantage may be that merino is "softer":

    Wood Trekker: Merino Wool vs. Regular Wool Insulation
    I have questions about this test. Did the experimenter validate that the fabric was actually merino wool and 100% merino at that? Alpaca wool is often sold as knock off merino, for example and far inferior. I see no validation for that.

  68. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by 101 View Post
    I have questions about this test. Did the experimenter validate that the fabric was actually merino wool and 100% merino at that? Alpaca wool is often sold as knock off merino, for example and far inferior. I see no validation for that.
    I read his article and he seems pretty knowledgeable and addressed the questions that were asked. Why not ask the question directly?

    Seems like he's cutting out a lot of BS and doing this very scientifically: Wood Trekker: Fleece vs. Wool Insulation
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    My point was more about the content % rather than wool vs merino mfg advertise Merino Wool as a catch word but you need look at the % it contains.
    To the above test yes merino is softer and thus less scratchy, And dry is warmer than wet well no shit Sherlock how about doing wet cotton vs wet wool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smithhammer View Post
    I just picked up some felted wool insoles and stuck them in between the inner and outer boots of my Old Man Winters. It's like sticking my feet inside a yak that just ate a crock pot full of habaŮero chilis.

    I do this too, for day rides where I know I can dry everything out overnight.

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    Curious if anyone has tried KEEN Men's Winterhaven Waterproof Hiking Boot and what your comments are for winter biking?

    The Winterhaven's are waterproof, ankle high and have a flat bottom, similar to something you would find on recommended 5Ten MTB style shoes for flats. Drawback on the Keen Winterhaven is the laces without a velcro securing strap but that could be easy to deal with. Not sure how rigid the soles are.

    I might move forward on these unless anyone can say differently. I'll buy them one size larger to fit my thick Sealskin waterproof winter MTB socks.

    I suppose I should mention that I'm not too interested in being out biking in temps that drop into or below single digits F.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Sloth View Post
    Curious if anyone has tried KEEN Men's Winterhaven Waterproof Hiking Boot and what your comments are for winter biking?

    The Winterhaven's are waterproof, ankle high and have a flat bottom, similar to something you would find on recommended 5Ten MTB style shoes for flats. Drawback on the Keen Winterhaven is the laces without a velcro securing strap but that could be easy to deal with. Not sure how rigid the soles are.

    I might move forward on these unless anyone can say differently. I'll buy them one size larger to fit my thick Sealskin waterproof winter MTB socks.

    The toe box looks very small. A deal breaker for me.

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    Fresh Foam 1000 Boot - Men's 1000 - Walking, Cushioning - New Balance


    These just popped up on my screen.

    Flat sole, decent size toe box, not too heavy.

    A bit pricey though.


    If we weren't having such great snow for skiing this year I might try them out.


    Addendum:

    Read some Amazon reviews and they suggest the toe box is a bit small.

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    I edited my post as I should have mentioned that intended use would be preferably in the 20s F, maybe down into the teens F but no colder. Was looking for something that wouldn't be too heavy or restrictive.

    I am well aware that cramming feet with very thick layers of socks into a boot is a recipe for getting very cold since blood has a harder time circulating and no excess air barrier. Insulation works better when it can trap more air. I've experienced that in the past with ill fitting, e.g. too small, ski boots and snowboarding boots.

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    Will take a look, thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    So, as for boots...My boots with thinsulate 200g can get chilly depending on length of ride and air temperature (not to be confused with water temperature ). I found these toe warmers:

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    They slip over the sock and go just past the ball of your foot. They stay in place fine and the XLs do not constrict my size 12 foot at all. I do think they make my 200g boot work like a 400g boot.

    if you want to boost the warmth of your feet, something like this might be worth a shot before dumping $ into more insulated boots.
    Just saw this and a FYI on neoprene. Since the internal construction of neoprene is rubber it will retain moisture. I've never worn any neoprene that "breathes". The price is certainly cheap enough to try them out and see if they work but I wouldn't be too confident your toes won't get wet.

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  78. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by ak-rider View Post
    Interesting article but as he mentions at the end, itís for a specialized application and likely overkill for most people. I suspect most people are just out for ride, come home and everything dries out. Not camping out in the cold for days at a time. Iím not sure what he has against flat pedals but most people up here use flat pedals and for as many times as Iíve fallen over on ice and on trails and also wrecked, Iíll happily stick with flats and they allow your options to greatly expand your footwear choices.

    Something he mentioned that was interesting was getting raw spots and sores from the black diamond VLBs. With your feet constantly surrounded by moisture it seems that could go from an annoyance to a real issue if you had to walk and push for a long distance.

    Iím kinda curious about the VLB concept. Iím skeptical because it goes against everything outdoor clothing manufacturers have produced for the past 40 years. Iíd think if it were that simple, we all be wearing xtratuff boots and Helly Hanson rain gear for every single outdoor activity.

    You have a knack for twisting things around to suit your agenda. That's your prerogative, but honestly -- why bother? If you don't want it to work for you, don't try it.

    What's overkill about this system is how warm they are. Nothing to do with the VBL's.

    What I have against flat pedals is that you can't pull up on the pedal. Can only push down. Push down and you're squeezing blood out of your toes. Surely you can see why this is a problem in real cold?

    Flats also don't allow me to ride as much "technical" snow as clipless. Which means I end up walking more if I'm on flats. Not the end of the world, but I bring the bike because I like riding. YMMV.

    The Black Diamond VBL's were a one-time experiment, something like 15 years ago. These days I either use a bagel bag for day rides or, more likely, effectively shrink-wrap my felt liners with a contractor grade trash bag and some spray glue. I've been across Alaska 3 times with that exact setup now, in temps as high as plus 30 and as low as -65. Same boots/socks/liners regardless. I've had to push for 100+ miles a few times on those trips. No issues with moisture (or anything else) to date.

    Your experiment with VBL's was doomed from the start, mostly because you didn't have liner socks to keep the moisture away from your feet, and to minimize the slipping/sliding of the plastic bags.

    Some people use full-body VBL's for high-exertion in cold environments. I tried it on my lower body and didn't care for it, for many reasons. Doesn't mean it doesn't work for them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Sloth View Post
    Just saw this and a FYI on neoprene. Since the internal construction of neoprene is rubber it will retain moisture. I've never worn any neoprene that "breathes". The price is certainly cheap enough to try them out and see if they work but I wouldn't be too confident your toes won't get wet.
    The point is to wear these when it is cold. My feet do not sweat when it is cold. if my toes do sweat while wearing these, then i will take that as mission accomplished.

    it should also be noted that these are not worn against the skin, but rather over socks. my wool socks provide an air barrier. Secondly, my boots are leather, so they do not breath much either.

    i went for a ride yesterday in low single digit temps (f). With my 200g Thinsulate boots ,wool mix socks, chemical toe warmers and the toe covers, i lasted about 1.5 hours before the feet really started to feel uncomfortable. Total ride time was 1:50. When i go out for a similar ride, i will opt for my 1,000g hunting boots. it was a successful test of the max limit. BTW, my base layer shirt under a Gore thermal cycling jacket had significant sweat. Neoprene covered toes were dry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post

    What I have against flat pedals is that you can't pull up on the pedal. Can only push down. Push down and you're squeezing blood out of your toes. Surely you can see why this is a problem in real cold?
    I'm going to have to disagree with that one. On any clipless pedal, your foot is in a fairly static position, your tarsals, meta-tarsals and phalanges don't flex to any real extent are are definitely not under the impact forces involved in walking/running. As an example, while running, doctors have found that your calfs sort of work as a "2nd heart", helping to pump blood while flexing, and the impact and flexing action of your foot also helps to keep circulate blood. The calfs are not nearly as engaged in biking as they are when running up a hill. It seems to be no question why my feet don't get cold when I'm running, vs. feet on pedals of any kind (flats or clipless). Riding on any kind of pedal simply doesn't engage your foot enough to push blood to the places where it needs to go to keep the feet warm like running does. The benefit with flats is that you can get off and walk much easier and most hiking boots are far more suited to flexing and re-establishing the blood flow into the toes, vs. relatively hard-sole (even the softer ones) clipless shoes that are more about power-transfer and stability. Having done this now for a few years, the "pulling up" does absolutely nothing to help circulate my blood to my toes. I do just fine with clipless, but that's because of the extreme steps I've taken to make it work for me. When I want to have warm feet and keep it simple, I just put the flats on there. You can still have some of the heat-transfer issues with standing on a heat-sink, but again, pulling up doesn't make that go away on clipless.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    I'm going to have to disagree with that one. On any clipless pedal, your foot is in a fairly static position, your tarsals, meta-tarsals and phalanges don't flex to any real extent are are definitely not under the impact forces involved in walking/running. As an example, while running, doctors have found that your calfs sort of work as a "2nd heart", helping to pump blood while flexing, and the impact and flexing action of your foot also helps to keep circulate blood. The calfs are not nearly as engaged in biking as they are when running up a hill. It seems to be no question why my feet don't get cold when I'm running, vs. feet on pedals of any kind (flats or clipless). Riding on any kind of pedal simply doesn't engage your foot enough to push blood to the places where it needs to go to keep the feet warm like running does. The benefit with flats is that you can get off and walk much easier and most hiking boots are far more suited to flexing and re-establishing the blood flow into the toes, vs. relatively hard-sole (even the softer ones) clipless shoes that are more about power-transfer and stability. Having done this now for a few years, the "pulling up" does absolutely nothing to help circulate my blood to my toes. I do just fine with clipless, but that's because of the extreme steps I've taken to make it work for me. When I want to have warm feet and keep it simple, I just put the flats on there. You can still have some of the heat-transfer issues with standing on a heat-sink, but again, pulling up doesn't make that go away on clipless.

    By your own accounting you aren't like most people WRT cold feet -- you have greater challenges and what works for many has never worked for you.

    Pulling up/back creates space between your toes and the front/bottom of the shoe. Pushing down does the opposite. I'm not suggesting that clipless are a panacea or that they create heat in any way -- merely that with clipless if I notice my feet getting chilled I can consciously pull up on the pedal and that action encourages circulation more than the push-push-push of a flat pedal setup. Chances are very good that if I consciously pull up for a few minutes I can re-establish warmth in my feet without the need to get off and walk. No such option with flats.

    As such I end up walking more with flats -- both because I can't clean as much funky snow without the firm connection to the pedal, and because my feet get colder, sooner, and walking is the only way to warm them back up.

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    It seems like more people than just me suffer from cold fingers/toes based on the responses. Anyways, time to go back into the cold now for a ride
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  83. #183
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    I'm using Lake 145s from 40F to -15F (Today) with Planet Bike toe covers from 20F to 10F, some sorta homemade toe covers made from old neoprene shoe covers from 10F to whatever adding a chemical hand warmer between the toe cover and the top of the shoe to add a little heat when temps get negative. I don't do a ton of riding cold enough to warrant the 303s. Haven't considered other brands because I wear a true 13 (48) and very few brands make an actual 48 in a winter shoe so I buy the size 15 lakes (which are a true 15) and add a thicker insole. If you're riding flats and want a stiffer sole you could always buy second-hand XC Ski boots and cut off the toe extension.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    The point is to wear these when it is cold. My feet do not sweat when it is cold. if my toes do sweat while wearing these, then i will take that as mission accomplished.

    it should also be noted that these are not worn against the skin, but rather over socks. my wool socks provide an air barrier. Secondly, my boots are leather, so they do not breath much either.

    i went for a ride yesterday in low single digit temps (f). With my 200g Thinsulate boots ,wool mix socks, chemical toe warmers and the toe covers, i lasted about 1.5 hours before the feet really started to feel uncomfortable. Total ride time was 1:50. When i go out for a similar ride, i will opt for my 1,000g hunting boots. it was a successful test of the max limit. BTW, my base layer shirt under a Gore thermal cycling jacket had significant sweat. Neoprene covered toes were dry.
    Thanks for the update on those. I do have very extensive experience with neoprene wearing wetsuits and on a lesser scale, neoprene socks on my waders. So I'm definitely aware of neoprene and how it retains heat/moisture but on a larger scale of coverage. Add that my feet have a tendency to sweat and since neoprene retains moisture, just wanted to point that out.

    I suppose it is also possible that since those Hot Sockee toe warmers only cover a limited area, they might actually "vent" too since you have them over a base layer wool sock creating an air "layer". But good to hear they are working for you. Since they are cheap, I might give them a go and see how they do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forster View Post
    I'm using Lake 145s from 40F to -15F (Today) with Planet Bike toe covers from 20F to 10F, some sorta homemade toe covers made from old neoprene shoe covers from 10F to whatever adding a chemical hand warmer between the toe cover and the top of the shoe to add a little heat when temps get negative. I don't do a ton of riding cold enough to warrant the 303s. Haven't considered other brands because I wear a true 13 (48) and very few brands make an actual 48 in a winter shoe so I buy the size 15 lakes (which are a true 15) and add a thicker insole. If you're riding flats and want a stiffer sole you could always buy second-hand XC Ski boots and cut off the toe extension.
    I find my Lake 303's too cold below mid-20's, as despite adding 45Nth aerogel insoles the cleat and the toe spike blanks act like heatsinks through the sole. I need to try and find some plastic blanks to replace the metal ones currently in place for the spike inserts...
    Rolling on 29", 650b, 8.3" and 23mm

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    Got to go out and test out the new Bugaboots today.
    Temp: 2 deg F. No wind
    Ride: about 2 hours. 6 ish miles total
    Socks: REI base layer wool; outer layer regular winter hiking sox

    The fit with the socks was great. Got a size larger than normal and there was plenty of room in the toe box. The boots griped the pedals well though they do need to soften up a bit. My feet were never cold at any point in the riding. Never!!! The worst part of the ride was my hands - so now I have to get the gloves thing figured out. Could have stayed out longer if it wasnít for the hands and my weak legs. (Havenít ridden since before Christmas).

    Cant wait to get out again tomorrow
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  87. #187
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    I've got to use my Wolvhammers a few times now. After going back and forth on them for a year and constantly looking for a deal on them, I found a 30% off coupon that was good for Christmas Day. I must say that I am really impressed with these boots. By themselves, they make a pretty good and comfortable pair of winter boots. I wore them to the doctor's office this morning since I was heading out to the trails as soon as I was done and I don't mind walking around in them one bit, even with the cleat installed. I've been using them clipless and very pleased with the results. I've broken through ice and had them fully submerged and they have stayed dry. The tread works well on hard ice, though I haven't used the studding option. I've had them out in some very cold temps -not sure of the exact temperature, but I was losing my fingers in a pair of crabclaw mitts underneath a pair of bar mitts. It's a very, very expensive boot, but seems to be a well designed and worthy product.


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    Somewhere someone asked about pogies for feet. This got me to thinking. I've been wearing an older pair of Lake 303's and they work okay for 90% of my riding conditions and temps. However, they becoming a limiting factor in single digit temps and lower.

    I replaced the insole with a felt insole and that was a definite step in the right direction. I then turned an old set of neoprene shoe covers into toe covers and that got me a few more degrees.

    Then I went into our local second-hand gear store and found what may just turn out to be the answer for those really cold days: Mountaineering overboots.

    I know a lot of folks around here use the Neo overboots with flat pedals, but I like my clipless and want a solution that works with that set up.

    And, before I hear the old saw about heatsink and blah blah blah... that has been a non-issue with these boots for me since the beginning. Or maybe the heatsink effect is what caused me to get cold so quick before putting in the felt insoles, but...whatever.

    So my set up is now a piece of cardboard taped over the clip area of the insole, a mylar insole from a pair of Baffin polar boots then a felt insole. The the mountaineering overboots on the outside.

    I've not yet gotten a chance to really test them, but in 20F with 20mph winds they were pretty dang awesome. Had to do a bit of modification, but I figured for the 20 bucks that the overboots cost me, I could experiment a bit. The idea had started to hatch a bit when I saw an old pair of Outdoor Research back county ski boot covers that had a completely open sole and bungees to keep them cinched down around the boot. I didn't like that approach too much, though, as it seemed like any hiking would cause issues with the cover filling with snow or simply getting moved about.

    Winter Biking Boots-20180113_125544.jpg
    Winter Biking Boots-20180113_125549.jpg
    Winter Biking Boots-20180113_125554.jpg

    With this set up, I use the toe spikes to help hold the cover in place, though not needed, and I can easily and quickly pull the covers off, roll them up, and stuff them in my frame bag if it gets too warm to use them.

    Again, at 20F with 20MPH winds my feet stayed nice and toasty. Not a true test, but I am hopeful.

    I've found that with pogies for my hands my forearms tend to be quite a bit warmer as well - thus resulting in needing fewer layers. I think the same may hold true with these on the lower extremities. They come up to my knees so...

    Anyway. I, for one, am hoping for a cold snap, and soon.

  89. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    As an example, while running, doctors have found that your calfs sort of work as a "2nd heart", helping to pump blood while flexing, and the impact and flexing action of your foot also helps to keep circulate blood. The calfs are not nearly as engaged in biking as they are when running up a hill.
    Being new to winter riding I've been experimenting quite a bit to find what works for me. I'm still searching for the right solution, but one thing I noticed is shoes that limit ankle movement (Lake 400) tend to not be as effective at letting my feet warm up compared to shoes that allow more articulation (Specialized Defroster). I can start with cold feet in the Defrosters and warm up (given it's warm enough outside), where with the 400s my feet will continue to get colder as I ride. The "2nd heart" theory seems like a plausible reason for the difference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by compengr View Post
    Being new to winter riding I've been experimenting quite a bit to find what works for me. I'm still searching for the right solution, but one thing I noticed is shoes that limit ankle movement (Lake 400) tend to not be as effective at letting my feet warm up compared to shoes that allow more articulation (Specialized Defroster). I can start with cold feet in the Defrosters and warm up (given it's warm enough outside), where with the 400s my feet will continue to get colder as I ride. The "2nd heart" theory seems like a plausible reason for the difference.
    +1 on the Defrosters. Whether or not they are considered actual boots, they have kept my feet warm in single digit Fahrenheit temps with wind chills well below 0. I don't even need to wear a thick sock. I don't know what is inside of those things but they work for me, you can clip in, and they are pretty nimble.

  91. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by sXeXBMXer View Post
    Got to go out and test out the new Bugaboots today.
    Temp: 2 deg F. No wind
    Ride: about 2 hours. 6 ish miles total
    Socks: REI base layer wool; outer layer regular winter hiking sox

    The fit with the socks was great. Got a size larger than normal and there was plenty of room in the toe box. The boots griped the pedals well though they do need to soften up a bit. My feet were never cold at any point in the riding. Never!!! The worst part of the ride was my hands - so now I have to get the gloves thing figured out. Could have stayed out longer if it wasnít for the hands and my weak legs. (Havenít ridden since before Christmas).

    Cant wait to get out again tomorrow
    Pogies/bar mitts for your hands.

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    https://www.rei.com/product/121535/s...ike-shoes-mens

    Anyone give these a go yet? Price is right.
    Vermonter - bikes, beers and skis.

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    A few weeks ago I came across some extra funds, so I bought some 45Nrth Wolvhammers. Mind you, I bought at wholesale, which is still more than I've ever spent on an article of clothing. Ever.

    Life changing. Being clipped in, having a more supportive sole, as well as being incredibly warm has been a whole new experience after wearing the same Keen boots for the last 7 winters of fatbiking. 15 minute commutes in -20F were no problem. 2 hours at 10 degrees were no problem. I wear a 46 mountain shoe and have a 47 Wolvhammer. Haven't used anything more than my single pair of normal Costco wool socks. So far so good. My only complaint is that I waited so long.
    Jason
    Disclaimer: www.paramountsports.net

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    Quote Originally Posted by dr.welby View Post
    Vasque Arrowheads work great for me. They have flattish sole and are light. I think they are discontinued but they're still available at the REI Garage and other clearance outlets.

    I have used them for two years and really like them but my feet do start to get cold below 5 degrees F if I'm out for an 60 minute + ride. (fine for my 30 to 45 minute commute in any temp)
    "At least I'm enjoying the ride"

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    Minneapolis MN

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    Quote Originally Posted by leeboh View Post
    Pogies/bar mitts for your hands.
    I have thought about that, but I don't think it stays cold enough around here to make the investment...I do plan on doing longer winter rides down the road (into retirement for sure) so I might do that...some times they look like they would be sort of cumbersome to ride with, but I won't know till I try right?
    " ...the moonlit swamp Krampus is a king among bikes." - geraldooka

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronhextall View Post
    Attachment 1171167

    Bought a pair of Mickey Mouse army surplus boots a couple years ago. Rate for 40 below zero.

    Not going to lie they are very bulky and heavy but damn my feet are warm and that is saying a lot with my feet.
    My girlfriend bought a pair of these and I'll be buying a pair if my wool socks and backpacking boots aren't warm enough. It was a miracle to find them in extra narrow for her feet and for the money, they are going to work perfectly for her. At $50 a pair, I can't see the point in looking elsewhere. These boots are waterproof and wool inside, what more could one ask for? I guess they're not lightweight nor modern looking, but who cares?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sXeXBMXer View Post
    I have thought about that, but I don't think it stays cold enough around here to make the investment...I do plan on doing longer winter rides down the road (into retirement for sure) so I might do that...some times they look like they would be sort of cumbersome to ride with, but I won't know till I try right?
    Pogies are a game changer. I thought they would be cumbersome as well, but nope.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blockphi View Post
    Pogies are a game changer. I thought they would be cumbersome as well, but nope.
    Couldn't agree more

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    Quote Originally Posted by blockphi View Post
    Pogies are a game changer. I thought they would be cumbersome as well, but nope.
    Quote Originally Posted by compengr View Post
    Couldn't agree more

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
    cool...looking at the 45Noth cobrafists right now on line...any other recommendations?
    " ...the moonlit swamp Krampus is a king among bikes." - geraldooka

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    Quote Originally Posted by sXeXBMXer View Post
    cool...looking at the 45Noth cobrafists right now on line...any other recommendations?
    I think those are probably overkill unless you're pretty far North. While they might have application for extremely cold days further south, you may find more versatility with something like this:

    http://www.bedrockbags.com/gear/redwall-pogies

    I use these with various glove combinations underneath depending on the weather. It gives you a pretty good range of versatility.

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