Will this work? Pugs+Rims+Tires+Hubs?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Will this work? Pugs+Rims+Tires+Hubs?

    Hiho, i want to say hello to this part of the forum, iam Tibor from germany, architect and part time custom bike designer ... i have read allmost every thread on the last 6 pages ...

    till a few weeks ago "fatbikes" where something completly unknown to me... iam building cruisers and custom bikes but i had never heard of "fatbikes"... so it came that last winter i was trying to find out which of my bikes would work best in snow and ice... and it was a steel "boardtracker"-frame with 26"x80mm rims and 26"x3.00" tires... i had a lot of fun but in deeper fresh snow i lost traction way to often...i even tried some Point Racing DH "Bigfoot" 26"x3.00" with some better results in traction but the bike was now way over 45 pounds ... last week in my LBS i was talking to the shop guy about the next winter and that i was looking forward to the first snow... so he said "maybe you should buy a pugsley!?"... "whats a pugsley?"... "a "fatbike" by surly with even fatter tires than yours so you don't sink in the snow so much."...

    ... so i did a lot of internet research, and now i know i want a pugsley, i can get a good deal on a 2011 surly pugsley frame with the offset fork in snowblind white... but i always try to build my bikes by my own... and i love internal gear hubs for commuting and XC in our region, there aren't to many mountains around... so i don't need more than 7-9 gears...

    ... so this is what i planned to (b)uy/or use from (s)tock:
    - (b) 2011 Pugsley (20" or 22") + Offset Fork - i am 192cm tall (6' 3")

    - (b) 2x robsson 26"x100mm rims (i can get them here in germany easier than the surlys)

    - (b)2x Surly Endomorphs or Larrys (not Big Fat Larrys... they won't fit... right!?)

    - (s) SRAM Spectro S7 (132mm IGH) i really like this hub and have used it often in my cruisers (with a 18 teeth extreme dished cog (20mm more offset))

    - (s) Shimano Deore hub (135mm) in the front...

    - (s) Avid Elixir 5 plus 160mm Rotor (back version)

    - (b) Truvativ Gigapipe ISIS BB + (s) Hussefelt DH 1.1 (36 tooth version)

    - (s) some KMC Halflink chain + some good old chain tensioners for horizontal dropouts

    - plattforms (odyssey), riserbar (funn, or Fuji) as well as some good ahead stems are in stock... plus a lot of the small things you need to build a bike ...

    ... we are using the Sram S7 almost every time we plan to use a 100mm rims in our cruisers so it should work in a pugsley too... but i only have the coaster break versions in stock (i know that there was also a freewheel version... but i never had one)... i am used to use my feet on the pedals for speed reduction (fixies and cruisers)...

    ...what do you think? did i forget something? are there some major problems in my list?

    i wish all of you a nice weekend...yours Tibor

  2. #2
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    I am also 6'3" and have a 22" Pug which fits great. The 20" will be on the small side. A BFL will not fit a 100mm rim on a Pugs. fork. It will fit a Pugs. fork w/ a 60mm rim. You could get a Moonlander fork or White Brothers Snowpack which will fit BFL's on 100mm rims. I ride a lot of deep snow and find the bigger the better for loft in the front is nice. (Salsa and 9 zero 7 also make super fat steel forks). you can always upgrade/modify the front end in the future. Surly makes a 40mm rise "swoopy-style" "Open Bar" which I really like-wide, and comfortable. Ragley makes an aluminum and carbon cruiser/upright bar called the "Carnegie" which is also very wide, slightly more aggressive bend than the Surly. Easton makes an excellent platform pedal called "Flatboy". Good luck in your build.
    "Go that way REAL FAST, if something gets in your way... turn".

  3. #3
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    so the 22" Frame should be my size Thanx!

  4. #4
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    Yes, at 6'3" you want a 22 unless you have short legs. If you click on my Avatar picture it will take you to my photos which has a couple shots of what a 22" Pugs. looks like and the seat post extension for someone who is your height. I also have a Surly Big Dummy 22"-fits perfect.
    "Go that way REAL FAST, if something gets in your way... turn".

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny settle View Post
    I am also 6'3" and have a 22" Pug which fits great. The 20" will be on the small side. A BFL will not fit a 100mm rim on a Pugs. fork. It will fit a Pugs. fork w/ a 60mm rim. You could get a Moonlander fork or White Brothers Snowpack which will fit BFL's on 100mm rims. I ride a lot of deep snow and find the bigger the better for loft in the front is nice. (Salsa and 9 zero 7 also make super fat steel forks). you can always upgrade/modify the front end in the future. Surly makes a 40mm rise "swoopy-style" "Open Bar" which I really like-wide, and comfortable. Ragley makes an aluminum and carbon cruiser/upright bar called the "Carnegie" which is also very wide, slightly more aggressive bend than the Surly. Easton makes an excellent platform pedal called "Flatboy". Good luck in your build.
    Actually, it will fit a pugs fork with 82mm rims too:



    BFL, RD, Pugsley offset fork and Anything Cages | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

    FYI.

    g

  6. #6
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    ...hehe... put some pics of "the last winterbike - Rohrspatz" in my album ... i like this forum...

    ...so i made my decission... i try the 26"x100mm robsson rims and some larry tires in a pugsley with the IGH SRAM Spectro 7... i calculated the spokes using the freespoke...

    ...the robsson rims have nearly the same data like the clownshoe rim ... i hope i used the offset feature right ...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Will this work? Pugs+Rims+Tires+Hubs?-srams7-100mm-offset175.jpg  


  7. #7
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    Q: do you really need a half-link chain - a regular one will weigh less and last longer(?)

  8. #8
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    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  9. #9
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    your calculation implies that i have to drill another 36 spoke holes... why dont use the existing ones? then tension on the spokes would be less strong?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tibor View Post
    your calculation implies that i have to drill another 36 spoke holes... why dont use the existing ones? then tension on the spokes would be less strong?
    I'd use the existing holes offset so you had as even a spoke tension as possible. So if we are building a wheel for a Pugsley I'd only use the holes offset to the right in the rim.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  11. #11
    That Unicycle Guy
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    Do the Robson rims have 36 or 72 holes per rim?

    You have a negative bracing angle on one side and positive on the other, that just simply won't work.

    If they have 72 holes It is a no-brainer, just use all the drive side holes.

    If there are only 36 holes I would drill 18 new holes per rim. I don't know what the spoke bead is like but if it is the same thickness all the way across I would drill the 18 holes offset 15mm to the right of centre to give the same bracing angle on both sides and the most balanced wheel build possible.

  12. #12
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    Tibor, what is the weight of these rims and how is the quality ?
    are they available in 32 loch too? (that would be the best...)

  13. #13
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    ...i think they are only available in 36 holes... the quality is superb ive been using the 24" versions and some 26" too... even for a single walled rim they are very stiff... the double walled version isn't even stiffer... but i find it harder to put a tire on the double walled one...i cant explain why but the simple single walled is easier...

    a single walled one has a weight of 918 grams (put one on scale extra for you really!!! no joke!!!)
    (i have still have a 26"x80mm and a 26"x100mm in stock .. what you can find if you clean up the basement ) so i don't have to buy two but only one 26"x100mm for this project...

    i think they are good for their price and easiser available here in germany than Surly Rims (there is one shop near who is a dealer (at least he can order from the german distributor)... but i don't like this shop... an my favourite LBS isn't able to order at the distributor .. so i have to build my own...


    ...single wall 26"x100mm


    ...double wall 26"x100mm

  14. #14
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    hi tibor,
    thanks, a lot! looks very tempting, especially for this price. think i will order a set of single wall 80mm and drill them out.

  15. #15
    Frt Range, CO
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    I have an S7 and several Alfines. I'd use an Alfine, once you have one you'll wonder what happened to Sachs/SRAM. The shifting on an Alfine is so much better.

  16. #16
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    sooo

    ...today my first official FatBike Frame arrived (only one month waiting )
    a 20" Surly Pugsley... with some part like a Truvativ Gigapipe Team DH and a Quando TX Freeweel 135mm hub for the front and sometimes back (equiped with a 13t sprocket)...

    ...my list of parts is also what i think finished...


    octane One DH1 Crank (38T)
    Robsson 80mm rims (36 holes) (cross-lateral lacing necessary)
    Shimano Alfine Premium 8
    Elixir 5 Brakes (both 160mm)
    a 450mm Seatpost (allready ordered) just for my and the frames safety
    Big Fat Larrys or normal Larrys iam still not sure


    Stems and Handlebars will be tested when the bike is rideable...








    i feel a little bit like a child on christmas eve...

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tibor View Post
    ....i feel a little bit like a child on christmas eve...
    And like one, you won't stop grinning for ages...
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

  18. #18
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    got new rims and crankset...

    sorry i know its allready in the "last fat bike part bought" thread... but i want to use this thread as my "build up" - thread so i don't open a new one for this project...











    wanted an octane one crankset but its discontinued... so i bought an NC-17 Pro which i like also...

    did some calculations again for spoke length using a "lateral" 2-cross lacing... and man i need 4 different spoke lengths for front and back?! ... fat biking can be complicated! especially if you have never laced an "offset-fat bike-lateral" wheelset...


    need to change the colour of the crankset when i have time for some fun renderings...

  19. #19
    M8 M12 M15 deez nuts
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tibor View Post
    got new rims and crankset...

    sorry i know its allready in the "last fat bike part bought" thread... but i want to use this thread as my "build up" - thread so i don't open a new one for this project...





    .
    Sorry… where did you say the red anodised fatty rims were sourced from?
    Don’t frail and blow if you’re going to Braille and Flow.

  20. #20
    nvphatty
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tibor View Post
    got new rims and crankset...

    need to change the colour of the crankset when i have time for some fun renderings...
    nicely done Tibor

  21. #21
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    These wheels are produced by Robsson, a guy i know from a german "custom bike forum"... he sells them directly as well as over a shop called SM-Parts (Salwender Marcel...not what you think!!! ) problem is like with the ChopperUS and Weinmann rims they are only available as 36holes, which is no problem if you wnat to redrill them...

    Robsson Rims only in german language but you will get it...first one is singlewalled rims second doublewalled rims

    SM-Parts Rims section also only in german language but you will get it too...

    allmost every rim is 36holes in the "custom-bikes"-scene... because wo often us older Internal gear hubs like the Torpedo by Sachs or the Shimano Nexus3 as well as the Sram i3 stuff... also the most 7gear IGH are 36 holes only... the 32holes stuff seems to be a more modern feature comming from the MTB scene...

  22. #22
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    cant see the red one rims only - how much ?

    they are begging to be drilled

  23. #23
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    at Robsson 26"x3.00"(80mm) for 65 Euros with 36holes

    i think the price is more than fair...

    and at SM-Parts they are sold out at the moment in anodized red (but had the same price)... but i think he delivers world wide... at robsson iam not too sure... maybe you should ask him...

    ... i askes Marcel from SM if he sends to the states and how much it would be...maybe more than one pair would be cheaper...

  24. #24
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    got some nice birthday presents from my parents and my wife...

    a cool red seatpost with a selle royal saddle (pretty light xc stuff) and a Spank Tweet Tweet riser handlebar with 70mm rise also in red... its cool that all the parts have nearly the same colour...

    and today i have build my third wheel in my whole life ... its lateral 3 crossed and its nearly true (not at the picture... this took some time... )

    freespoke did a really good job in helping me calculate the spoke length... and i saw that the Quando TX Hub is a clean copy of the Hope pro 2 SS hub... same dimensions ...






  25. #25
    nvphatty
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tibor View Post
    got some nice birthday presents from my parents and my wife...
    very nice

  26. #26
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    thats what i did today... i think not to bad for my third and fourth wheel build...











    soo 3 cross lateral lacing... trueing did take longer than i expected...

  27. #27
    ouch....
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    Hey Tibor
    I really like your idea and setup, especially the colour matching of the parts.
    I´m looking forward seeing that one in real life,maybe..

    good luck with your ride !

    girgl
    ????

  28. #28
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    i still have problems with trueing the wheels... tomorrow i'll try some nipplewashers OR some countersinking the spoke holes (last try)

    ...i allready trashed 10 nipples while trueing the wheel and than there is the point where the nipplehead tries to cut itself into the rim...so i need some washers or countersinking... ...

    for my first offset wheelset i did expect some trouble but not that much

  29. #29
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    My sollutions... NIPPLE WASHERs... now its possible to true the wheel...

  30. #30
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    I found with crossover spoking that it's really important to get everything trued up while the spokes are finger tight. It is very difficult to pull the wheel into true after that.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

  31. #31
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    I'll second that. Also true with a wheel I just built up where the hub flange separation was less than the spoke bed offset, so the spokes traveled outward from hub to rim.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjbrubaker View Post
    I'll second that. Also true with a wheel I just built up where the hub flange separation was less than the spoke bed offset, so the spokes traveled outward from hub to rim.
    You can't just throw that out there. Pictures or at least some more information for the inquireing minds that want to know. Without more information that just sounds wrong.
    Latitude 61

  33. #33
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    got my wheel true...nearly ... and put on some "poor mans Nate" a Duro Wildlife 26"x3.00" using my loved motorcycle tubes, a little bit heavier but i never killed one!



    i also installed my bashguard and the 38 tooth chainwheel... looks heavier than it is!







    ... so next week, i'll be finishing it for its first ride... i can't sleep already...

    happy easter everyone!

  34. #34
    M8 M12 M15 deez nuts
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    Those huge-ass red anodised beauties look totally tits!!! Eagerly awaiting build completion pictures.
    Don’t frail and blow if you’re going to Braille and Flow.

  35. #35
    A Surly Maverick
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    Keep going Tibor

    Pug is looking great so far
    Life IS a Beach and then you Corrode :)

  36. #36
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    the Pug had its first "roll-out" a few minutes ago... brakeless but it was FUN!!! ... i need the other washers for the alfine... and the for will stay uncuted until i found my perfekt riding position, iam 6'3"/ 192cm tall...and took the 20" frame...because of the shorter effective toptube length... and the 19tooth cog in the back and the front will be changed for 22 tooth cogs






  37. #37
    nvphatty
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    very nice!!

  38. #38
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    soooo..... tested the drivetrain with 38:22 today... and i think its way too easy for me in summer...so i went back to 38:19... feels way better especially in first 3 gears...today i went up a very steep hill in 4th... ... i think in Winter i will go back to 38:22... installed a temporary mech. disc brake in the front, to get to my LBS and getting my AVID Elixirs installed... so till tomorrow...

  39. #39
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    Looks great nice job

  40. #40
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    ...tomorrow my Pug will get his final parts.. a set of Avid Elixir 5 Discbrakes... and we will esperiment with the washers for the alfine hub... at the moment iam using the brown ones from an nexus7... and the shifting mechanism is following the chainstay... maybe i should try the alfine blue ones so the shifting mechanism shoul dbe tilted upwards following the seatstay...

    ...by the way... the Hayes MX4 is definitly not my favourite piece of brake ... now i know why it was laying around for so many years in my basement...


  41. #41
    ouch....
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    keep going,Tibor.
    what size of rotors will you use?

    girgl
    ????

  42. #42
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    ... i stay with 160mm... in my eyes more than enough for me... i won't go on a downhill race... in a few minutes iam of for new brakes

  43. #43
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    yesterday it was Pugs first day out in the "wilderness" of Halles Saale-Delta... and it performed GREAT ... i was running up hills...i would normaly not drive down (45° angle with loose gravel)... with this bike its possible i LOVE fatbikes since yesterday... and the member who said i will have a fat grin on my face was SO RIGHT!!!... Thanx for all the help in this Forum... i even had the "stupid" idea to sell all my other bikes...









    ... iam still waiting for my Larrys (i hope they are better on asphalt than those Duro Leopard tires!...and lighter... those leopards on my Pug are around 2500 grams EACH!)... they will arrive next week, at least i hope so!

  44. #44
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    Bike looks great! Nice job.
    Your going to love what fat can do.

  45. #45
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    Tibor, are you still interested in thse BFLs?

  46. #46
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    Interessted : yes! but after the ordering of the larry 3.7 broke till next month (i have a strict "bike budget"!...and a wife controlling it!

  47. #47
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    ...finaly the Larrys came in from the Netherlands today... day fit fine... especially if i remeber the Point Racing Bigfoot (Duro Leopard) disaster... i HAD to drive through the next sandbox ... AND I WAS SMILING!!! FINE TIRES (my first fat tires!... so maybe someone has a different opinion ) ... i think there is enough space left for trying the BFLs...










  48. #48
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    how is the lateral lace holding up? i want to do something similar with an alfine on a clownshoe. i know the regular lacing works fine, but i just don't like the idea of the wheel being so far off the center spoke line. plus i don't mind the challenge of a tricky, temperamental wheel build. and if the moonlander is coming with an offset fork fork next year, i would do the lateral lacing on the front too.

  49. #49
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    I don't even like the color RED but man Tibor does rims look amazing

    Congratulations on the new bike.

  50. #50
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    The lacing seems to work very good... at first i was very carefull with the rims because i didn't trust them at the first drive ... but i went harder on them over the past few months... and they are still solid as a rock... i will have the recentered next week by a professional wheelbuilder...

    i did 1-1.5m drops with this wheelset and the still runs good (it was a suprise drop behind a bush in the woods i went through )

    for me was the problem the different spoke length for all sides... and the useage of "nipple-washers... without them its pretty hard centering the rims (like the us-Choppers Rims)

    ...Edit...
    ...sometimes i do smaller trips (30km) with my daughter... so i had to install a child-carrier system... looks horrible but drives still fair...

    Last edited by Tibor; 09-01-2012 at 01:41 AM.

  51. #51
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    good to hear! the bike looks amazing with the carrier, i love that!!! i pull a chariot trailer with my wee one (20x3.0 tires)

  52. #52
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    That is one sexy bike. What front rack is that?

  53. #53
    nvphatty
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    Quote Originally Posted by willzager View Post
    that is one sexy bike. What front rack is that?
    44dd

  54. #54
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    You've done a stellar job with your Pugs

    Thanks for sharing your experience...

  55. #55
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    the front rack is a "Basil Front Carrier" for holland "dutch" Bikes... steel frame, powdercoated, adjustable for 26" and 28" ... weight is acceptable...


  56. #56
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    tibor, could i trouble you for some more pictures of the igh wheel? i'm still thinking of doing an alfine 8 on a clownshoe, but its a bigger offset, and wide rim with farther spread spoke holes. just trying to picture it, and if the driveside spokes can make the angle with the high flanges.

  57. #57
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    sorry that i post pictures a little bit late... but my bike was in a bike shop i never will be again... they said that they will center my wheels better tham i did... and i took them 2 months with a not very better result (a slight left/right wobble in the front)

    ...today i took my chance to grab the last sunbeams of autumn...









    and a closer look to my lateral laced wheels (simply go from the left side hub hole to the right side hub flange and vice versa...)




  58. #58
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    still working on my fatfront 135mm offset suspension fork project...

    here are some drawings from the last month... maybe i get it finished till spring...

    frame is a Surly Pugsley L size...(the one i own...)




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    By bigjimsixten in forum Clydesdales/Tall Riders
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 03-05-2005, 05:53 PM
  5. would Sun rims and Hope XC hubs work for me?
    By sbek in forum Wheels and Tires
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 05-27-2004, 05:04 PM

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