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  1. #1
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    Where is 29 fat?

    Anyone making like 29x65mm rims and 29x3.5-3.8” tires yet?


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  2. #2
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    While I'd be curious to ride one I wouldn't buy one, and I would want 4.5" tires at least.

    26x6" on the other hand.... nah, jk.
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  3. #3
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    My carbon farley with 27.5x3.8 is like a hot dog down a hallway.

    29x3.5 fat would be like 27.5x4.5 for height?


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  4. #4
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    There is no reason to use 29” tall tires. You need stand over clearance riding in snow and taller wheels make that difficult.

  5. #5
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    Holy shit, here it is.


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  6. #6
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    By the look of the thread i found that on they are as wide at 3.0 knards.

    Those rims with 3” xr4s would be slick....


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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowfat View Post
    There is no reason to use 29” tall tires. You need stand over clearance riding in snow and taller wheels make that difficult.
    Here we go again. When the progression goes to 29 fat, there will be a 26er forum in the stall wart curmudgeon section of the forums for you to hang out with the other 26er fans.

    Just like there is now with the 26er nonfat Fanboys who are all still preaching that 26 is all that's necessary.

    Believe it or not, there are ways to build bikes around 29 fat that give adequate standover.
    And there are people taller than you who have never considered standover when shopping for a bike.

    I myself have never even given it a second thought...and I ride tons of tech, skinnies, drops.

    The bigger the better.

    My 29x3 only makes me want to buy 29x4.8 all the more.

  8. #8
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    Got details on the source of that pic?

    I can't read the label, but something about that strikes me as coming from the world of Tommisea, EXTREME MEGA PHATTIE ULTRA INSANO WORLD SPEED CHAMPION ON SAND MARKETING IS ALL I DO, and I wouldn't touch anything from that whackadoo if you paid me.

    If it's legit or at least not him, I'm all in for a good project.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Got details on the source of that pic?

    I can't read the label, but something about that strikes me as coming from the world of Tommisea, EXTREME MEGA PHATTIE ULTRA INSANO WORLD SPEED CHAMPION ON SAND MARKETING IS ALL I DO, and I wouldn't touch anything from that whackadoo if you paid me.

    If it's legit or at least not him, I'm all in for a good project.
    I blew up the image. 31x3.7"

    Where is 29 fat?-screen-shot-2019-01-20-8.24.04-am.png
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Got details on the source of that pic?

    I can't read the label, but something about that strikes me as coming from the world of Tommisea, EXTREME MEGA PHATTIE ULTRA INSANO WORLD SPEED CHAMPION ON SAND MARKETING IS ALL I DO, and I wouldn't touch anything from that whackadoo if you paid me.

    If it's legit or at least not him, I'm all in for a good project.
    After ONE SPEED blew the image...only draws those inclinations in deeper.
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  11. #11
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    That's definitely Tommisea crap
    I like turtles

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    Placed a search under the title...'extreme warrior fat tire e bike'...

    then clicked on the title...'extreme fat tire bikes for extreme racing lighter bike'

    Poke around under the tire and rim design feature. (the tire shown is not the same as posted by ONE SPEED.)

    In an attempt to post a link...came up that...fatbikeparts.com...domain is for sale.

    IMO...his fingerprints are all over this.
    "Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway" John Wayne

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    No.

  14. #14
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    I can imagine the weight of a 700 wheel with a 4.8 or 5.0 tire.....
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by SADDLE TRAMP View Post
    Placed a search under the title...'extreme warrior fat tire e bike'...

    then clicked on the title...'extreme fat tire bikes for extreme racing lighter bike'

    Poke around under the tire and rim design feature. (the tire shown is not the same as posted by ONE SPEED.)

    In an attempt to post a link...came up that...fatbikeparts.com...domain is for sale.

    IMO...his fingerprints are all over this.
    Yah its from some shit e bike site. Wouldnt touch it either.

    Whats with e bikes sites and extreme! ultimate!

    There is a local guy here doing the same stuff with white label e bikes. Same looking site, same lame words.... i guess it works with Chinese white label walmart quality fatbikes customers?




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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Got details on the source of that pic?

    I can't read the label, but something about that strikes me as coming from the world of Tommisea, EXTREME MEGA PHATTIE ULTRA INSANO WORLD SPEED CHAMPION ON SAND MARKETING IS ALL I DO, and I wouldn't touch anything from that whackadoo if you paid me.

    If it's legit or at least not him, I'm all in for a good project.
    https://www.fattirebikeparts.com/ind...ire-wheel-sets

    Tire has a side shot on the hugo 52 thread and its as wide as a 3.0 knard.

    I should email nextie, last time i asked them for some single wall 27.5” rims they are now in design.

    A 65mm 29 that you put 3” tires on may be an idea.


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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by solarplex View Post
    A 65mm 29 that you put 3” tires on may be an idea.
    Unless you're talking about groomed, hard-packed snow, you're going to want wider tires on snow.

    I run 3" tires on 50mm rims on my Krampus, I wouldn't want to run a 65mm rim unless the tire was wider too.
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  18. #18
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    Where is 29 fat?

    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    Unless you're talking about groomed, hard-packed snow, you're going to want wider tires on snow.

    I run 3" tires on 50mm rims on my Krampus, I wouldn't want to run a 65mm rim unless the tire was wider too.
    Would be squarer like a 27.5x3.8 on 80mm rims

    Apparently the 3.7 is a lie.

    Here is the 3.0 knard on the same wide carbon rim which at this point im doubting the 90mm width too.

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  19. #19
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    So this is what my carbon farley looks like with 27.5x3.8 on 80mm rims looks like. Axel full back.

    4.5” gnarwhals are alot tighter.

    A 29x3.8 tire on a 65-80mm rim would fill that gap like the 4.5” have the same bb height as the 4.5”

    I think it would work well.


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  20. #20
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    Where is 29 fat?-img_20181031_091127.jpg

    Topic was pretty close to my testing so had to post. 787mm bsd rim with 65mm internal width and Bulldozers in picture. I have tested several tire sewing techniques with used fat tires and got a solution that seems to work now (daily riding for about a month and no sign of breaking). Sewing Jumbos together now for a nicer ride. Huge grip compared to same tire on original rim size.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowfat View Post
    There is no reason to use 29” tall tires. You need stand over clearance riding in snow and taller wheels make that difficult.

    You need to educate yourself on bike geometry, how it works, what the compromises are and aren't, etc...

    Not saying you have to like 29 fat. Who knows how it'll manifest. Just saying that you keep spreading "facts" that aren't.
    Last edited by mikesee; 01-20-2019 at 11:46 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fokof View Post
    I can imagine the weight of a 700 wheel with a 4.8 or 5.0 tire.....

    If it makes the difference between riding and walking when things get deep and soft, I'll gladly imagine it.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    Unless you're talking about groomed, hard-packed snow, you're going to want wider tires on snow.

    I run 3" tires on 50mm rims on my Krampus, I wouldn't want to run a 65mm rim unless the tire was wider too.
    3" tires aren't fat tires, no way, no how.

    And agreed, 100%, I started with 50mm rims for my 29x3 and am now down to 35 and 40, happily.

    So no, a wider rim and 3" tire is kinda pointless. A 3.5 or larger? Maybe that width would start to be okay.

    Oh, thanks for blowing up that image, you are a technical genius, don't let anyone tell you different...
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    Quote Originally Posted by chelboed View Post
    Here we go again. When the progression goes to 29 fat, there will be a 26er forum in the stall wart curmudgeon section of the forums for you to hang out with the other 26er fans.

    Just like there is now with the 26er nonfat Fanboys who are all still preaching that 26 is all that's necessary.

    Believe it or not, there are ways to build bikes around 29 fat that give adequate standover.
    And there are people taller than you who have never considered standover when shopping for a bike.

    I myself have never even given it a second thought...and I ride tons of tech, skinnies, drops.

    The bigger the better.

    My 29x3 only makes me want to buy 29x4.8 all the more.
    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    You ned to educate yourself on bike geometry, how it works, what the compromises are and aren't, etc...

    Not saying you have to like 29 fat. Who knows how it'll manifest. Just saying that you keep spreading "facts" that aren't.
    Let’s see some images of just what a fat 29er would look like. This size is will Eliminate the market for everyone under 6’ tall, brilliant idea. Create a lineup of low profile tires that don’t work for shit anywhere except on hard packed groomed roads.

    I think the ski industry is all set to go back to long, skinny DH boards for powder skiiing, the fat bike industry should follow suit and go with long, skinny contact patch tires. Not because they’ll work better, but because they are different.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowfat View Post
    Let’s see some images of just what a fat 29er would look like. This size is will Eliminate the market for everyone under 6’ tall, brilliant idea. Create a lineup of low profile tires that don’t work for shit anywhere except on hard packed groomed roads.
    Y'ought put down the crack pipe. You're lowering the collective IQ of this place singlehandedly.

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    IMO any man under 6' tall is kinda short around here. ;0)

    So yeah...29+ isn't ideally for a little guy. Neither would be 29 fat.

    But hey, just cause it doesn't work for everyone doesn't mean it wouldn't be ideal for us fellas over 6 feet tall. And there's a lot of tall riders out there.

    You also need to understand how frustrating it can be for someone 6'2" to buy a size large or extra large frame that had a stack height that's only an inch or so higher than a size medium frame.

    You got a little short dude like 5'8"-5'9" compared to someone 5 or 6 inches taller...but we only get 25mm more stack height? Now we gotta run Goofy looking stems and bars to get our grips to the level of the saddle.

    So an overall taller wheelset with taller fork and head tube makes sense for me.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    I started with 50mm rims for my 29x3 and am now down to 35 and 40, happily.

    So no, a wider rim and 3" tire is kinda pointless. A 3.5 or larger? Maybe that width would start to be okay.
    Interesting. I know your previous bike setups and I think we should clarify (for the purposes of this thread) summer bike vs. winter bike. I understand your comment is about the 29+ Lenz, I'm curious which rims you switched to though?

    I've had good luck with the Sun Ringle Duroc 50mm rims, (on my Krampus currently) but also like Raceface Arc rims on other bikes. WTB rims have their merits too, just curious what you decided to rebuild your wheels with?

    Did you stagger your tires to match the rims? I know in the early days (you were certainly one of the first in the area on 29+) the Knard tires were the only option. I remember you saying you desired a bit more grip. What tires are you running now-a-days on the staggered rims? I'll hazard a guess that you have a DW in front, what's on the back?

    Oh, thanks for blowing up that image, you are a technical genius, don't let anyone tell you different...
    Nah, it comes free when you own a Mac. All I did was ZOOM.
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  28. #28
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    Where is 29 fat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowfat View Post
    Let’s see some images of just what a fat 29er would look like. This size is will Eliminate the market for everyone under 6’ tall, brilliant idea. Create a lineup of low profile tires that don’t work for shit anywhere except on hard packed groomed roads.

    I think the ski industry is all set to go back to long, skinny DH boards for powder skiiing, the fat bike industry should follow suit and go with long, skinny contact patch tires. Not because they’ll work better, but because they are different.


    Imagine same tire OD, narrower, larger rim... boom 15.5 and 17.5 farleys fit 27.5x4.5 terrene cake eaters.


    Or kink the top tube like the old spec helga for the small...

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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    3" tires aren't fat tires, no way, no how.

    And agreed, 100%, I started with 50mm rims for my 29x3 and am now down to 35 and 40, happily.

    So no, a wider rim and 3" tire is kinda pointless. A 3.5 or larger? Maybe that width would start to be okay.

    Oh, thanks for blowing up that image, you are a technical genius, don't let anyone tell you different...
    Whats the surface area of a 26x3.8 on a 65mm rim which is “legal” to a 29x3.5 on 65mm rims?

    Yes i agree 3” is narrow. But 3.5-3.8 rear world like the hodag 3.8x27.5 is on a 65-80 mm rim.

    More float than 27.5x3.8... same bb height as 5.05 or 27.5x4.5


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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by solarplex View Post
    Whats the surface area of a 26x3.8 on a 65mm rim which is “legal” to a 29x3.5 on 65mm rims?

    Yes i agree 3” is narrow. But 3.5-3.8 rear world like the hodag 3.8x27.5 is on a 65-80 mm rim.

    More float than 27.5x3.8... same bb height as 5.05 or 27.5x4.5
    You must live and ride in a different environment than I do. You seem to be motivated to ride a barely "fat" tire. 3.5" tires won't get it done in snowy conditions, even if you weigh 125 lbs.

    My current fatbike will only fit a 4.6" tire in the back (Dunderbeast on an 80mm rim) with a 4.8 Bud in the front. If my frame would fit more I would go wider for a winter, fatbike specific setup. Since it won't, I'm pretty happy with the way it performs.

    A fatbike is supposed to be fat. You seem like you're asking about chubby plus tires. If you ride in conditions that require fat tires you wouldn't be asking about downsizing your tires.
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    If it makes the difference between riding and walking when things get deep and soft, I'll gladly imagine it.
    You really think that a 150mm difference in circumferences will make a difference worth the 400g more on deep/soft snow ?

    You must not have the same snow in your part of the earth than I have here......
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

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    Quote Originally Posted by fokof View Post
    You really think that a 150mm difference in circumferences will make a difference worth the 400g more on deep/soft snow ?

    You must not have the same snow in your part of the earth than I have here......

    I didn't see where anyone had discussed specific dimensions.

    In general, I'll take an improvement in float in soft conditions over a loss of weight on any part of the bike. Riding is usually faster, more efficient, and more gratifying than walking.

    I don't know where you live, but the snow I ride is usually deep, soft, wind affected, and almost never groomed.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    Nah, it comes free when you own a Mac. All I did was ZOOM.
    Magic!

    So, Lenz has a 50 in front, 40 in back after I toasted the original 50 I had out back. Just thought I'd experiment, see what a bit less rim width did.

    End of the day, nothing, it just weighed less.

    So when I sold my OG Krampus and built up a new purple one, I wanted to use Velocity since they're doing custom ano now, and I wanted to 3DV the crap outta this thing.

    So I got a Dually and a Blunt 35.

    Apologies, Dually is 45mm.

    Again, what did I notice? Nothing, just lighter.

    3DV Krampus is also running Maxxis DHR/F 29x3.

    Mikesee has mentioned a few times that narrower rims don't seem to impact 3" tire performance much till you get below 35 mm, and I'd agree. I did run a Knard on a Stans Arch a few years ago, it was *okay* but as a front, I had to run it pretty hard, and thus, lost the benefits of that nice gooey contact patch out front, that didn't last long, as it was an experiment, anyway.
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post

    So when I sold my OG Krampus and built up a new purple one, I wanted to use Velocity since they're doing custom ano now, and I wanted to 3DV the crap outta this thing.
    Yeah, I'm going to need to see pics of that.
    Last edited by *OneSpeed*; 01-21-2019 at 09:24 AM.
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    I didn't see where anyone had discussed specific dimensions..
    The thread title is "Where is 29 fat"
    Below 4.5 isn't fat IMHO

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    In general, I'll take an improvement in float in soft conditions over a loss of weight on any part of the bike. Riding is usually faster, more efficient, and more gratifying than walking.
    Agreed that riding is faster than walking.

    But since riding in soft snow you have to run low pressure , the "patch" dimension or surface difference between a deflated 700 X 4,8 wouldn't be much bigger than a 26er with a deflated 4,8.
    The 150mm circumference more for a 700 wheel will not give you 150mm more contact surface.
    The hight of the casing tire could have a bigger impact on the surface contact than the wheel size.

    And add that the 700 wheels will have at least a pound more
    ( they always have a 10% more in weight )

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    I don't know where you live, but the snow I ride is usually deep, soft, wind affected, and almost never groomed.
    I'm in eastern Canada
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    Yeah, I'm going to need to see pics of that.
    Sigh, okay....
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Where is 29 fat?-gopr0195.jpg  

    Where is 29 fat?-gopr0196.jpg  

    Where is 29 fat?-gopr0197.jpg  

    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  37. #37
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    Sweeeeet! I'd say you win the Purple Prize!

    I've been doing more Purple lately too, but nothing that compares to that.

    Here's my Krampus wheels if you haven't seen them.

    Where is 29 fat?-img_5879-1-.jpg

    Where is 29 fat?-img_5820.jpg

    Where is 29 fat?-img_5890.jpg
    Rigid SS 29er
    SS 29+
    Fat Lefty
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    Full Sus 29er (Yuck)

    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  38. #38
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    NOICE!

    Now if we could just get some damn fat 29er, or at least convince the industry to NOT kill 29x3, we'd be getting somewhere...
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by solarplex View Post


    Imagine same tire OD, narrower, larger rim... boom 15.5 and 17.5 farleys fit 27.5x4.5 terrene cake eaters.


    Or kink the top tube like the old spec helga for the small...

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    Those tires fill the Farly frame, the bike will start looking ridiculous and possess some odd geometry with even bigger wheels.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    You need to educate yourself on bike geometry, how it works, what the compromises are and aren't, etc...

    Not saying you have to like 29 fat. Who knows how it'll manifest. Just saying that you keep spreading "facts" that aren't.
    They are called opinions and unfortunately for you, everyone on this site is entitled to make their own.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Y'ought put down the crack pipe. You're lowering the collective IQ of this place singlehandedly.
    I’m reporting you yet AGAIN for being abusive towards other users.

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    Abusive? Stretch. Toughen up sweetheart.

  41. #41
    Hybrid Leftys aren't real Moderator
    Reputation: MendonCycleSmith's Avatar
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    Snowfat, welcome to the game, plainly, you're new.

    Opinions are like, well, you know.

    Knowledge however, is a whole different ballgame, and it's earned, by experience, trial, error, and being around people who know more than us.

    Mike has earned his knowledge (and opinions) by working with a number of companies you've likely heard of, on product development, design, testing, etc. Though he's generally too modest to list his accomplishments in that department, he just freely shares his knowledge, so others may learn too. It's a pretty good deal, if you're willing to let it happen.

    Which is not to say that he, and I, have never disagreed on things, or that I've never been on the same side of his acerbic whit as you are now. He doesn't suffer fools, but, no one should if I'm being honest. I think both he and I have learned that, truly, there's local "ground truths" that everyone has, and that no one can know everything, 100%. What you're defending, isn't that.

    I respect him deeply, and would suggest, if only for your own learning purposes, that you might adopt a different approach involving some listening, and questioning, rather than just spouting *facts* when challenged (spoiler alert, you're wrong about a lot of things). If you can, you might be exposed to a world of information, and nuance, you hadn't previously been aware of.

    Or, just keep tilting at windmills and shouting to hear yourself think.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  42. #42
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
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    There are threads where you just sit back and watch the world burn...
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  43. #43
    mtbr member
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    I remember my first 29 plus demo on an xl frame stache. Felt like bikes had finally grown to my size, feel the same way about 27.5 x 4.5 it almost looks ok on an xl frame, could maybe squeeze a bit more actually.

    Like so many parts of life fat bike extremes only benefit a small base for a rather large cost. But even a small difference helps at the ragged edge, then the trickle down effect of what works benefits the masses. At speedway cycles the walls are lined with the literal evolution of fatbike trial and error, culminating to what we currently take for granted. Namely 5 inch tired low standover highly capable bikes that are reasonably light and relatively cheap.

    Espens 3xl prototype tires, and Mike's 217 rear end custom snow bikes might not float the boat of the hobbit legged rider. But trust me, they do represent iterations of what is likely to be the next generation of fatties.

  44. #44
    Hybrid Leftys aren't real Moderator
    Reputation: MendonCycleSmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    There are threads where you just sit back and watch the world burn...


    I was just done watching the guy not be able to get a match lit....
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

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