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  1. #1
    sh*t eater
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    We landed on the moon

    Blog

    and then some.

  2. #2
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    Holy crap... I dont even know where to begin...

  3. #3
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    Commence sell off of skinny fat bike
    2013 mongoose Fat bike
    2012 Moonlander.

    http://undergroundvelo.proboards.com/

  4. #4
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    Fantastic work Surly; come on On-One, get your finger out, you're losing the race at the moment!

  5. #5
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    Wow, lots happining in the fatbike world, nice to have tyre options! Gotta have a set of nates for winter mud!
    That moonlander does look really fat!
    Drink coffee....ride bikes....eat cake
    http://morayfatbike.blogspot.com

  6. #6
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    Rip the bring!

  7. #7
    Caveman
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    holy ****

  8. #8
    A Surly Maverick
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    26x4.7 on a 100mm rim. 120 tpi. Really really big.

    Yes, it will fit into a Pugsley frameset on a Large Marge rim. HOWEVER, You will no longer be able to use your small ring or largest three or four cogs in the rear due to tire/chain disagreements.

    Color: Tire colored

    MSRP: $140

    Due Date: Aug 2011 - like very soon

    Thanks You Surly

    Will it work with an Alfined Pug......I`m very hopeful
    Life IS a Beach and then you Corrode :)

  9. #9
    R.I.P. Pugsley.
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    ........................!!









    (virtualy speechless)

  10. #10
    a lazy pedaler
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    Geez, seeing and writing from my cr#py BB...I hate the interweb police at the office!

    Surly did an amazing job this year! Wow!...I already had a short fight on the phone with the wife!...you could hear her saying: ”why would you need another bike!?"

  11. #11
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    So my 135mm Surly non offset forks & 80mm rims will work on the front with a big fat larry....?
    Drink coffee....ride bikes....eat cake
    http://morayfatbike.blogspot.com

  12. #12
    =========
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    hokey smokes, bullwinkle...I thought this thing was a hoax, but now I find myself wanting one!

  13. #13
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    Gotta get me some nates, wooohooooo!!!

  14. #14
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    I want them all.
    Jason
    Disclaimer: www.paramountfargo.com

  15. #15
    Really I am that slow
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    dang! so want, so lust
    Read my BLOG!

    just a guy who loves bikes and exploring

  16. #16
    giddy up!
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    I had the opportunity to fondle a Moonlander/see it in action last week. Rest assured, it's legit.
    www.thepathbikeshop.com

  17. #17
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    mmmmmm marge lites, and double drilled for lacing like the darryls !

  18. #18
    Nouveau Retrogrouch SuperModerator
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    NATE! I like this tire.


    3.8"
    mtbtires.com
    The trouble with common sense is it is no longer common

  19. #19
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    Drool,,,,
    plan it...build it....ride it...love it....
    http://coastkid.blogspot.com/

  20. #20
    Most Delicious
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    Thumbshifters!

  21. #21
    Dr Gadget is IN
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    Pugs vs Moonlander

    3.8 vs 4.7



    Just wanted to see 'em next to each other.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  22. #22
    Rednose/Greenback
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    Preparing to get a fat bike, I like the all the options emerging. This fall should have some really nice builds appear given these new products. They also reflect the growing use of fat bikes in non snow or sand environments. Very cool

  23. #23
    WAWE
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    I want to go to the moooon!

  24. #24
    Cheesiest
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    Speechless! I wasn't all that excited after hearing about the Moonlander...seeing it is a different story

  25. #25
    bikeboatbrewski
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    tire and rim options, yay!


    Yes I'll have the marge lites with a side order of Nates.

  26. #26
    How much does it weigh?
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    Yessss, totally need some Black Floyd tires.

    Sounds like the Big Fat Larry will fit in the Fatback frame/fork

  27. #27
    mtbr member
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    I'm so looking forward to winter

    Now to get rid of all my skinny bikes (2 down so far)
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

  28. #28
    Geordie biker
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    i will have to have one of these to go with my pug!
    2014 milage so far - 2,485
    www.ukfatbikes.co.uk

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr.welby View Post
    Thumbshifters!
    Yeah that was the second thing I noticed!! The first being the rubber!!

    As one who still uses an Endomorph on the rear it'd be so cool to have a greater choice of tyres, the Nates win it for me, just what I need in the Scottish clay!!

  30. #30
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    I just ordered a Mukluk 2....

    Well, I'm sure I'll see if I can squeeze a 4.7 in the back with a converted 10spd cassette to 6/7spd and pull the Whirly's off my current Pug and stick the 36/22 MWOD on there.

    Also, I saw the MWOD chainrings on a Mukluk at Frostbike and was very intrigued. All they said was that it was custom.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by saltyman View Post
    i will have to have one of these to go with my pug!
    Don't worry Salty, it will still be available come Jan/Feb when you sell on your new Pug

  32. #32
    will rant for food
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadester View Post
    Just wanted to see 'em next to each other.
    http://dillerdesign.com/random/bike/...oonlander.html

    Click the picture over and over.

  33. #33
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    I might want to wait to sell the fatback. I got to try and jam one of them 4's in there. If it fits in a pugs it should fit in a 170 spaced fatback.
    2013 mongoose Fat bike
    2012 Moonlander.

    http://undergroundvelo.proboards.com/

  34. #34
    Dr Gadget is IN
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Diller View Post
    Somebody do an animated gif of this, please?
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  35. #35
    Just Ride!
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    Might just get the BFL for the front of my Pug and see how that goes... Or sell off some of my bikes...

  36. #36
    Dr Gadget is IN
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borgschulze View Post
    Yessss, totally need some Black Floyd tires.

    Sounds like the Big Fat Larry will fit in the Fatback frame/fork
    Oh, yeah! Except buh-bye 3x9, hello MWOD 2x9. Except I want 20/36, silly me.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  37. #37
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    I feel a garage sale coming on, failing that can you sell kidneys on eBay?
    "Get busy living or get busy dying, that's god damn right"

  38. #38
    bikeboatbrewski
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mantastic View Post
    can you sell kidneys on eBay?

    You will only get $500 per kidney so you might have to pony up something else.

  39. #39
    Geordie biker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnclimber View Post
    Don't worry Salty, it will still be available come Jan/Feb when you sell on your new Pug

    nah i wont be selling pugsley when that comes, i could even cancel my order, i think i can live with 2 fat bikes though. rather than get huge tires for the pug.

    bet there are loads going to have the fat larrys this winter!

    2014 milage so far - 2,485
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  40. #40
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    Where would be the best place to try and buy the Nates the soonest?

  41. #41
    giddy up!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronism View Post
    Where would be the best place to try and buy the Nates the soonest?
    If you can't find them at a shop local to you give me a call at The Path Bike Shop(Brian, 714-669-0784).

    We have an order on the way that should show up on Monday.

    B
    www.thepathbikeshop.com

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Feelygood ! View Post
    26x4.7 on a 100mm rim. 120 tpi. Really really big.

    Yes, it will fit into a Pugsley frameset on a Large Marge rim. HOWEVER, You will no longer be able to use your small ring or largest three or four cogs in the rear due to tire/chain disagreements.
    I'd suspected this would be the case, but good to get it confirmed. Fantastic news

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Feelygood ! View Post
    Will it work with an Alfined Pug......I`m very hopeful
    I'm another hopeful 'Alfinist' though there won't be much chain clearance.

  43. #43
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    OMFG! not sure what i really want....theres....too....much.

    pretty obvious choice to exploit the fat market. so many things that haven't been done before. and of course fatter is better.

    Give me your cocktail. FRUIT!

  44. #44
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    I was just about to eBay my Pug frame because I have a 9:Zero:7 now.

    Better hold on to it until I know if the 4.7" tyre fits the 9:Zero:7.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

  45. #45
    @adelorenzo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Feelygood ! View Post
    26x4.7 on a 100mm rim. 120 tpi. Really really big.

    Yes, it will fit into a Pugsley frameset on a Large Marge rim. HOWEVER, You will no longer be able to use your small ring or largest three or four cogs in the rear due to tire/chain disagreements.

    Color: Tire colored

    MSRP: $140

    Due Date: Aug 2011 - like very soon

    Thanks You Surly

    Will it work with an Alfined Pug......I`m very hopeful
    That is what I am hoping too.... Crossing my fingers that LBS can get some of the tires soon, last year the Canadian distributor ordered nothing at all and we had to wait months for the Larry tires.

  46. #46
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    anyone working on a 20 speed 170mm wide alfine?
    i think my wife would sell her scandium 9'er for this thing... (or the on one if it'll fit those 4.8's!)
    If steel is real then aluminium is supercallafragiliniun!

  47. #47
    R.I.P. Pugsley.
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    Will the BFL work on a narrower rim in a SC-32 ?

  48. #48
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    I see direct mount FD on the moonlander, I wonder what other differences there are... I see the new pug has Mr Wirly's on it which would explain the price rise
    ok im off to ring dirtworks to find an eta in Australia lol
    Josh

  49. #49
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    wondering that myself.
    2013 mongoose Fat bike
    2012 Moonlander.

    http://undergroundvelo.proboards.com/

  50. #50
    mtbr member
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    I know that they list a moonlander wheel building tool, which Im guessing is cause they are different offsets (pug vs moon)
    Josh

  51. #51
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    Wow the BFL's are nice! Too bad they won't fit on the DUC 32 but they will work on a Dorado If they will fit on the rear without too much trouble I'll be sold. The Nate will be my got to dirt tire on my "skinny" 46mm summer rim. I hope the Hammerschmidt on my Vicious is far enough out for the chainline to work on the BFL. I am still trying to wrap my brain around the fact that the BFL's are making a 100mm rim look like my 46mm/Larry combo do. I wonder how deep the snow has to be to stop one of them!

    Sorry for the complete randomness but this is too much great information for me to process at the moment.

    -Nolan

  52. #52
    Geordie biker
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    Looking forward to reading the new reviews when the new lines get trail tested
    2014 milage so far - 2,485
    www.ukfatbikes.co.uk

  53. #53
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    I suppose the Big Fat Larry will work on the front of a Mukluk 1?
    "Ride what you love, love what you ride"

  54. #54
    Harmonius Wrench
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    Quote Originally Posted by jddjirikian View Post
    I suppose the Big Fat Larry will work on the front of a Mukluk 1?
    It was hinted at by a post in the Mukluk 2 thread that Big Fat Larrys would work with a modification to a 9 speed cassette. drop two gears, spacer out the cassette, and run a 7spd rear. I would imagine a 2X set up up front as well.

    I also feel that on the Rolling Darryls the BFL should fit a Muk, but on Clownshoes? Not sure on that.

    I'm excited about the Clownshoe, where I would use an Endo rear/BFL front set up, and also for the Nate 3.8's for summertime rock crawling.

    Great stuff Surly! Can't wait till Interbike to ride a Moonlander!
    Riden' an Smilin'
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  55. #55
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    Piss! now I gotta go drop $500 just on tires...
    If Huffy made an airplane, would you fly in it?

  56. #56
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    Geez! Another $400 for rims...Baby better really like her new shoes!
    If Huffy made an airplane, would you fly in it?

  57. #57
    I'm attracted to Gravity!
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    "Houston, the Eagle has landed."


    Totally sick bike. I'd looove to try that guy out in snow :-) then again, I'd have loads of fun trying just a skinny fat bike on snow.

  58. #58
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    Surly just buried this newb

    As an aspiring fatbike owner trying to sort out equipment options, things just got wonderfully more complicated.

  59. #59
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    Oh the excitement!

    On a sidenote, the Surly blog mentions that their new "Ogre" frame will be available in a 24" size. I wonder whether they'll do the same for the Moonlander and their other frames.

  60. #60
    R.I.P. Pugsley.
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    If the tires have a color option......
    Will this also include a sexy retro looking skinwall version ?

    (crosses fingers)

  61. #61
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    i wish they had a skinwall version, but I think you will find they are just being silly and saying they are the colour of tyres, eg black lol
    Josh

  62. #62
    Harrumph
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    FYI As of this morning(26aug) Floyd and Nate can be ordered in 27/120tpi.
    Slowly slipping to retrogrouchyness

  63. #63
    Lighten up.
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    Doubting if these new super fatties will fit in my ti' Fatback, but...it's still a great week for fatbikes!

  64. #64
    bikeboatbrewski
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    ^^^ Maybe the BFL will fit up front? Probably need the fork as well as the CS.

  65. #65
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    Check out the Fork

    Anything Cage Mounts.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by berrywise View Post
    Blog

    and then some.
    But Jimmy has fancy plans!
    <iframe width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/jMZtdLra24E" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

  67. #67
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    Now that's a monster truck!

    If only I didn't need/want so many other bikes...

  68. #68
    @adelorenzo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orkje View Post
    On a sidenote, the Surly blog mentions that their new "Ogre" frame will be available in a 24" size. I wonder whether they'll do the same for the Moonlander and their other frames.
    The XL 22" Pugsleys are HUGE, especially the old ones. I'm 6'6" and if I was buying today I would go for a L. Most guys around here are riding a size down, three of my friends are 6'+ riding on M frames.

    I don't know too many guys who would ride an XXL.

  69. #69
    bikeboatbrewski
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    Just talked to my LBS and pulled trigger on a set of Nates. Surly ****in' ROCKS.


  70. #70
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    Folding Nate?

    Did anyone else see that?

  71. #71
    bikeboatbrewski
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    Quote Originally Posted by anthony.delorenzo View Post
    The XL 22" Pugsleys are HUGE, especially the old ones. I'm 6'6" and if I was buying today I would go for a L. Most guys around here are riding a size down, three of my friends are 6'+ riding on M frames.

    I don't know too many guys who would ride an XXL.

    I am 6' and ride the Large, fits me fine.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottybinwv View Post
    I am 6' and ride the Large, fits me fine.
    i am 5'11" and the med fits me perfect, BUT i have the older frame with less stand over - the clearance is rather tight and i wonder how it will be affected with the BFL.

    my fit is VERY comfy over long distances. maybe it's due to the titanico saddle + hbars. with the newer dropped TT, i would have to strongly consider the large.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by dvo1 View Post
    Folding Nate?

    Did anyone else see that?
    Yup, and a folding Black Floyd too. I didn't see a folding Larry or Endo though.
    Looks like the end of Sept. for the folders?

    I just ordered a Nate. The guy at the LBS said he also ordered a Big Fat Larry this morning, so apparently they are available now too. Let the rush for fatter fronts begin!!

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr.welby View Post
    Thumbshifters!
    That's one way to get me to buy it. I love thumbshifters and I love them even more every time my knuckles bumps the front Rapid Fire shifter and drops me into the granny bear.

  75. #75
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    Pretty cool...with all the "Surly is so awesome" commenting, lol, I can't help but complain that I am still waiting for a lightly studded "fat" tire with small carbide studs for street riding in the winter...I live in Minneapolis and our last 2 winters have been brutual. Yes...one actually could use a fat tire for snow along with a smattering of studs for ice some days, lol, it's kinda crazy...

  76. #76
    Rednose/Greenback
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    Are these the ones?
    Microshift SL-A10


    
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  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
    Pretty cool...with all the "Surly is so awesome" commenting, lol, I can't help but complain that I am still waiting for a lightly studded "fat" tire with small carbide studs for street riding in the winter...I live in Minneapolis and our last 2 winters have been brutual. Yes...one actually could use a fat tire for snow along with a smattering of studs for ice some days, lol, it's kinda crazy...
    I'd debated about offering a "I will stud your fat tire" service, but then I remembered the construction process -- "Oh, right, that was boring as hell."

    I could hook you up with some carbide studs though, I live in Saint Paul.

  78. #78
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    ok i got 2 4.5 larrys on order for my fatback lets see if they fit on my bike with the 50mm umas.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails We landed on the moon-img_2297.jpg  

    We landed on the moon-img_2293.jpg  

    We landed on the moon-img_2294.jpg  

    Last edited by bighit; 08-26-2011 at 12:47 PM.
    2013 mongoose Fat bike
    2012 Moonlander.

    http://undergroundvelo.proboards.com/

  79. #79
    Lighten up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bighit View Post
    ok i got 2 4.5 larrys on order for my fatback lets see if they fit on my bike with the 50mm umas.
    Cool of ya t' play Tester for us scaredy cats. When I look at the stays on my Fatback, I'm thinkin', No way, José...but I hope I'm wrong. Hoping it's a vertical size difference, not width. But what do I know?

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    UGV throw em up
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    Quote Originally Posted by bighit View Post
    ok i got 2 4.5 larrys on order for my fatback lets see if they fit on my bike with the 50mm umas.
    They likely will, but you may have to limit your gear range. Take the small cogs off, put some spacers behind the cassette. You might have to get the MWOD too.

    I'll order one and play with it on my Pugsley and my Mukluk when I get it.

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    called Quality and locked em in. should see them by thurs. i will start a Super Fatback thread.
    started one here already, UNDERGROUNDVELO - Super Fatback
    Last edited by bighit; 08-26-2011 at 01:16 PM.
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  83. #83
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    The BFL's measure about 104mm wide and are 108mm tall on 80mm Rolling Darryls. Average weight for 4 tires was 1433 gms.
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    Quote Originally Posted by benwitt11 View Post
    The BFL's measure about 104mm wide and are 108mm tall on 80mm Rolling Darryls. Average weight for 4 tires was 1433 gms.

    So that'll fit a Mukluk easily, I think. Great news! Thanks Ben!
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    I would think so. I'll get to testing that ASAP. I think you'll need the new offset spider on a Mr Whirly and a set up rear cassette to really make it work well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by benwitt11 View Post
    The BFL's measure about 104mm wide and are 108mm tall on 80mm Rolling Darryls.
    Do you recall the numbers for a "skinny" Larry on the same rim? I'm already running 100mm rims so I'm looking at the increase in width/height.

    I note that with 100's, my 3x9 drivetrain doesn't actually touch the tire when stationary - but does when moving. Any more width means hello 2x7.

    MWOD due end of September, or talk to Tomicog about some custom stuff. Actually, the blog writeup says that the granny bolts directly to the whirly arm w/o the extra width of the spider and the other ring bolts to the granny. Hmmmmm.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by benwitt11 View Post
    The BFL's measure about 104mm wide and are 108mm tall on 80mm Rolling Darryls.
    Do you recall the numbers for a "skinny" Larry on the same rim? I'm already running 100mm rims so I'm looking at the increase in width/height.

    I note that with 100's, my 3x9 drivetrain doesn't actually touch the tire when stationary - but does when moving. Any more width means hello 2x7.

    MWOD due end of September, or talk to Tomicog about some custom stuff. Actually, the blog writeup says that the granny bolts directly to the whirly arm w/o the extra width of the spider and the other ring bolts to the granny. Hmmmmm. $45 per custom chainring + a whirly crankset + 2 BFL= not now anyways. Sigh.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wadester View Post
    Do you recall the numbers for a "skinny" Larry on the same rim? I'm already running 100mm rims so I'm looking at the increase in width/height.
    A Larry on the same rim and pressure measures 94mm tall and 96mm wide.
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    Quote Originally Posted by benwitt11 View Post
    I would think so. I'll get to testing that ASAP. I think you'll need the new offset spider on a Mr Whirly and a set up rear cassette to really make it work well.

    Yup. I think I'll be good with that. One bike for year round fun, and the other set up specifically for ultimate float. I may need to wait to see these 45North Husker Du tires though.

    I saw your weights posted on Facebook. Man! That Nate tire is a chunk! Not sure I'd need that much knobbage.
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  90. #90
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    Close up of the Moonlander finish. I spoke with someone who has seen one up close and he kept repeating, "It's huge!"
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails We landed on the moon-sparkle.jpg  

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  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiniTrail View Post
    TIRES!
    (huge grin)
    MORE MASSSSSIVE Tyres
    Life IS a Beach and then you Corrode :)

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    in the box and ready to ship.
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  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted View Post
    Close up of the Moonlander finish. I spoke with someone who has seen one up close and he kept repeating, "It's huge!"
    I likey!

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    It is huge. Seriously. Proportionally it looks like a Pug with Larry's on RD's. Then when you see a 3.8" tire next to it it'll about knock you over. I'm not sure I need that much float but it looks good, really good.
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    How much float is too much, ya know?

    In northern Illinois the stock Mukluk I rode last year in the wintertime did fine. Not exactly sure what Surly's trying to accomplish with the Moonlander, but more power to 'em.

    Thanks also for the measurements on the BFL with RD rims. The Graceful Fat Sheba rims came stock on the Mukluk 1 so I'm sure the BFL will work fine on those.
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  96. #96
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    When you weight 260lbs and like to ride on soft sand..........

    More float = more FUN
    Life IS a Beach and then you Corrode :)

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    I'm not saying it's a bad thing to have more float, only like other's have said, I've not found the 3.8" and 80mm rim combo terribly lacking. I look forward to finding out the difference.
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    I can't wait to see the BFL all muffin topped over a Large Marge and stuffed into a Pugsley.
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    I think we are moving into a new era in Fatbiking where there will be different levels of fatness !

    We may have to start grading tyres and frames with BMI Body mass index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I suspect we will have 3 basic fun groups.

    Fat :- 50mm rims and used as all round trail bikes with Nates, Huskers and 'skinny' Larrys.

    Obese :- 65 to 80mm rims with all of the tyres inc BFL

    Morbidly obese :- 'Hundies with BFL`s

    I`ve never felt so good about getting old and fat
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    Quote Originally Posted by benwitt11 View Post
    The BFL's measure about 104mm wide and are 108mm tall on 80mm Rolling Darryls.
    104mm? I was expecting something closer to 115mm.

    The 3.8" Nate on a 65mm Marge is 96-98mm. I'm sure there is a good deal of difference in the volume, but I don't see where the 4.7" measurement comes from... footprint maybe?

  101. #101
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    ...Hundies truly make a fat bike...
    If Huffy made an airplane, would you fly in it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FTMN View Post
    104mm? I was expecting something closer to 115mm.

    The 3.8" Nate on a 65mm Marge is 96-98mm. I'm sure there is a good deal of difference in the volume, but I don't see where the 4.7" measurement comes from... footprint maybe?
    I agree, I was expecting a bit larger. That was freshly mounted at 15psi. I'll see what they measure tomorrow. I am expecting them to stretch, I don't know what to expect there.
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    It's full of stars!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted View Post
    Close up of the Moonlander finish. I spoke with someone who has seen one up close and he kept repeating, "It's huge!"

  104. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by benwitt11 View Post
    I agree, I was expecting a bit larger. That was freshly mounted at 15psi. I'll see what they measure tomorrow. I am expecting them to stretch, I don't know what to expect there.
    Have you had a chance to mount them on 100mm rims, by any chance? I'm curious how much of a difference that will make.

    Thanks for posting all the usable data and early impressions, though!. Helps me focus my scheming and daydreaming....
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  105. #105
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    I have been pretty happy with the obese LM rim Larry/Endo combo. I would certainly try the morbo Clown Shoe/BFL combo but for my uses it would probably be over kill. I may forget all about that once I start riding.

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  107. #107
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    I'll be surprised if the BFLs aren't much wider - after all Surly is talking a 28mm offset which is 10.5 mm more.

    I'm hoping that might give us a guide to a BFL size on the sort of rim it was designed for.
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  108. #108
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    I am all about muffin topping
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  109. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAGI410 View Post
    I can't wait to see the BFL all muffin topped over a Large Marge and stuffed into a Pugsley.

    Check out Mike Curiak's images of his single speed Pugs with BFL's on Marge's in this thread: http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/bi...ng-733774.html
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    Thanks GT!
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    Quote Originally Posted by iamkeith View Post
    Have you had a chance to mount them on 100mm rims, by any chance? I'm curious how much of a difference that will make.

    Thanks for posting all the usable data and early impressions, though!. Helps me focus my scheming and daydreaming....

    I've not mounted them on 100's, I don't have any. Sorry I can't shed any light on the subject there, but I would surely think they will measure greater on hundos.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojoe View Post
    It's full of stars!!!
    You gotta kill a lot of black unicorns to get that kind of sparkle...

  113. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by bighit View Post
    I am all about muffin topping
    here ya go


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    I am not scared to rock the fatties.

    Never seen my blog have you.
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  115. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by benwitt11 View Post
    The BFL's measure about 104mm wide and are 108mm tall on 80mm Rolling Darryls. Average weight for 4 tires was 1433 gms.
    I bet they will expand a bit with use/time. Most tires do. I mount and inflate tires and wait 24hours before measuring. Even a 2.2" can "grow" 2-3mm overnight.
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  116. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    I'll be surprised if the BFLs aren't much wider - after all Surly is talking a 28mm offset which is 10.5 mm more.

    I'm hoping that might give us a guide to a BFL size on the sort of rim it was designed for.
    Which = 21mm more tire width. The offset crank may allow for more increase than that.
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  117. #117
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    So I hate to beat a dead horse here but in summary the consensus right now is that:

    At least the rear wheel will be a 135mm hub with 28mm offset

    crankset can be a regular Mr. Whirly with the ring adapter (and longer spindle?)

    Thanks

  118. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Feelygood ! View Post
    When you weight 260lbs and like to ride on soft sand..........

    More float = more FUN
    These tires have my name all over em.
    I like turtles

  119. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by benwitt11 View Post
    I agree, I was expecting a bit larger. That was freshly mounted at 15psi. I'll see what they measure tomorrow. I am expecting them to stretch, I don't know what to expect there.
    Bump 'em up to 30psi and then clear the room--they stretch like nobody's bidness.


    IIRC, once they stretched I took mine back down to ~10psi and they (preproduction set) were still ~118mm. That's on choppahundies.

    MC

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    Mukluk and BFL's

    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted View Post
    It was hinted at by a post in the Mukluk 2 thread that Big Fat Larrys would work with a modification to a 9 speed cassette. drop two gears, spacer out the cassette, and run a 7spd rear. I would imagine a 2X set up up front as well.

    I also feel that on the Rolling Darryls the BFL should fit a Muk, but on Clownshoes? Not sure on that.
    Sometime this past Spring samples of the BFL arrived. I had already been testing a MWOD chainring setup since February with a set of Chain Reaction/907 100's. I was curious...and so I took to mounting the BFL's on the 100's and putting them on the Mukluk. I'll admit, there was a bit of tension in the air...I hoped they'd fit and have ample snow/mud clearance. I was surprised! They fit!

    Over the summer I've been riding the Mukluk on our River Bottoms trails and took the bike to MI for a singletrack/beach cruise. The BFL's fit the Mukluk frame and I haven't had any issues with mud packing up the frame, or tires rubbing. There is somewhere around 1/4-3/8" (6-9mm) clearance on my frame between the tire at its widest point on a 100mm rim and my chainstays. If it performs as flawlessly as it has in dirt/mud I believe it will perform even better in snow.

    The issues surrounding the BFL and a 100mm rim like the Clownshoe, revolve around the drivetrain. Since this past winter when I built a set of the Chain Reaction/907 100's I've been running a 7 speed drivetrain using a Surly Spacer kit to space out and lock the cassette down. I like the limited gearing, and I like that in snowy/slush my lower two cogs no longer pack up with ice.

    With the BFL I've moved my drivetrain out using the upper 6 cogs on a 9-speed SRAM PG990 cassette and a 14T Surly cassette cog. Behind the cog/cassette goes roughly 12mm of spacers. All of it gets locked down with a stainless steel Surly lockring. All of the necessary spacers come with the Surly singlespeed spacer kit.

    After spacing out the cassette I spent my time replacing the limit screws in a Shimano XT Shadow rear derailleur with 20mm long stainless steel bolts. The shorter, stock bolts won't do when I'm moving the upper limit in as far as necessary for a 7-speed. With this mod the derailleur is very close to having no more movement available for adjusting the limit screws. Occasionally I do get some chain rub on the arm where the cable cinches down, you'd have to see it to understand it unless you know this derailleur well.

    All that being said, I've had no issues with the rear shifting on my Mukluk using SRAM Rocket (Shimano compatible) gripshift. I like the gripshift when using pogies or big fat mitts.

    On the front end of the drivetrain I'm using the MWOD chainrings on a Surly Crankset with a Shimano XT derailleur and Problem Solvers 100mm Direct Mount Clamp. Really no modifications here, just adjust up the limits and go. The MWOD's effectively move the inner and middle chainrings to the middle and outer positions giving more clearance for the chain at the tire in the 22/32, or granny gear.

    I have a hard time considering running anything but 100's and the BFL's now. I'm thinking 80's and 4.0's would be nice in the summer or on hard pack snow trails, but the softer it gets the better the 100's and BFL's feel.

    All summer our River Bottoms Trail, my dirt route to work has been under water in many areas. As they've cleared I've dipped in to find silt settled into mini dunes, otherwise known as a Fatbike paradise. This past week the river has finally cleared up and we were able to make the full 25 mile traverse. After 2.5 hours of dune riding, bushwhacking through neddles, following deer trails, and squirming across logs to cross the creek we arrived, giddy, to work.

    Yep, the Mukluk, with some drivetrain mods, will fit the BFL's!

  121. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMKM View Post
    Yep, the Mukluk, with some drivetrain mods, will fit the BFL's!
    Hey, thanks man! That was a great, detailed answer. (But I wouldn't expect anything less from you. )

    Well, you've answered my dilemma. I will be getting the titanium Muk when it comes out, (committed to one a couple weeks ago), and if the dimensions on that frame are the same as the aluminum Muk, it will get the 100's and BFL's for rolling stock. It'll be the ultimate floatation rig. Watch out snowmobile trails!

    The aluminum Snow Dog will be my "all terrain" slayer. I am thinking Nates front and rear, or the Husker Du rear/Nate front combo there. Then.......I gotta haul that bike to El Paso Texas and kick Franklin Mountain in the teeth. That place owes me after last June!

    Thanks again. This stuff is exciting.
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  122. #122
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    Awesome! I was in the same dilemna as GT. I ordered a Mukluk 2 and started to get a little too excited about the Moonlander. I know for sure I'll be upgrading to 100mm rims and BFLs before winter. I'm going to set mine up with 10spd XT and the MWOD. I could probably run 7 spds in back like that.

  123. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMKM View Post
    Sometime this past Spring samples of the BFL arrived. I had already been testing a MWOD chainring setup since February with a set of Chain Reaction/907 100's. I was curious...and so I took to mounting the BFL's on the 100's and putting them on the Mukluk. I'll admit, there was a bit of tension in the air...I hoped they'd fit and have ample snow/mud clearance. I was surprised! They fit!
    Hey JMKM, would you be able to give us width and diameter measurements of the BFL/100 combination? I know that I (and probably a lot of other folks) want to do some measuring of frame clearances...
    Thanks.

  124. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMKM View Post
    On the front end of the drivetrain I'm using the MWOD chainrings on a Surly Crankset with a Shimano XT derailleur and Problem Solvers 100mm Direct Mount Clamp. Really no modifications here, just adjust up the limits and go. The MWOD's effectively move the inner and middle chainrings to the middle and outer positions giving more clearance for the chain at the tire in the 22/32, or granny gear.
    Thanks for the detailed report! That's exactly what I (and probably a bunch of others) have been hoping to hear.

    If you don't mind, can you clarify something about the setup at the front, as you have done it? Do I understand correctly that you eliminated the large chainring? If so, approximately how much clearance is there between the chain and tire when in your inner (previously middle) chainring / inner (previously 7th cog) combination?

    What I'm really wondering, I guess, is if it will be possible to keep and use all three front chainrings. Especially if you're losing the smallest three cogs, it would be nice to keep the larger chainring. Or is it even necessary? Does the taller tire mean I'd never miss the taller gears? I'm hoping I can simply offset my bottom bracket to the right a bit more, and make it work.

    Either way, this is all great news, and I can't wait to give it a go! I love hearing that you prefer the larger tire most of the time too. Makes it easier to pull the trigger and invest the effort. I've now rationalized that I need to buy a small Muk frame for my wife, and build it around my stock wheels and dinky 3.8 Larrys! I'm such a thoughtful husband!
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  125. #125
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    I gotta get me some moonlander..........the coast of Joisey is beggin' to be ridden!

  126. #126
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    so this thing is huge. i assume there will be a glut of the now too small pugs and mukluks on the market, so maybe i can take the plunge into the fat bike world on the cheap.
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  127. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Bump 'em up to 30psi and then clear the room--they stretch like nobody's bidness.


    IIRC, once they stretched I took mine back down to ~10psi and they (preproduction set) were still ~118mm. That's on choppahundies.

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  128. #128
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    nah, everyone will be upgrading tires and going alternative gearing i reckon
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    Any idea on what the cost of Black Ops Pugsley complete could be - perhaps on the same range (or lower?) than the Moonlander?

    And what's up with these Microshift stuff - is it any good?

  130. #130
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    I couldn't see why it would cost more than a moonlander. I'm sure it would cost the same or similar to a regular complete which is ~$1800, right?

    Microshift? no idea on the quality but I also can't see how anyone can f-up 1980's Shimano technology. Why people get wet over thumb shifters is my question.

  131. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by western high plains View Post
    I couldn't see why it would cost more than a moonlander. I'm sure it would cost the same or similar to a regular complete which is ~$1800, right?

    Microshift? no idea on the quality but I also can't see how anyone can f-up 1980's Shimano technology. Why people get wet over thumb shifters is my question.
    cuz they are pretty damn reliable in the muck, wet, ice
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    Quote Originally Posted by western high plains View Post

    Microshift? no idea on the quality but I also can't see how anyone can f-up 1980's Shimano technology. Why people get wet over thumb shifters is my question.
    Microshift makes okay stuff. Had some trigger style shifters from them in the past.

    As for thumbies...lets see...a single lever that commands up and down shifts, stays out of the way of my hands on the handlebars, no accidental shifts like twist grip style ones, ability for friction shifting if something kills the indexing action, and I seem to remember them being easily "flickable" requiring less finger muscle to operate.

    Thems is my reasons...

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    I'd venture to guess the Black Ops to be priced close to the Mukluk 2 at ~$2100.

    Start with a $1650 Pugsley complete, add in some Mr. Whirly cranks, add some Rolling Darryl's with cutouts, new fork and some other goodies, and you'll be around $2k.

  134. #134
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    Any word on the measurements for 100mm with BFL?
    I'm hoping the 907 guys made the new 2012 models with these in mind...

  135. #135
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    I would like to know if they fit in a Fatback with 80mm rims, and the Carbon Fork.

    I'll get Black Floyd's for summer, and BFL's for Winter.

  136. #136
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    I'm bettin the Black Floyds will be spec'd on that fat Trek cruiser...it just did not look right with endos.
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  137. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by crankyandy View Post
    I gotta get me some moonlander..........the coast of Joisey is beggin' to be ridden!
    Jersey fat bikes in da house.
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  138. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by wieczorek24 View Post
    Any word on the measurements for 100mm with BFL?
    I'm hoping the 907 guys made the new 2012 models with these in mind...
    Being discussed in another thread here already.

    Figure on that combo as being 118-119mm wide. And as has also been pointed out, that width will be further out from the axle than your current tires. So the widest point of a BFL/100mm rim combo will occur closer to your BB than what you've got now.
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  139. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borgschulze View Post
    I would like to know if they fit in a Fatback with 80mm rims, and the Carbon Fork.

    I'll get Black Floyd's for summer, and BFL's for Winter.
    In a few days I will have a set on some 50mm umas. I am sure I can get it to work in the rear. If it fits I will run it single speed until I figure out the drivetrain issues.

    I am not sure about the carbon fork though. All I got is the SC32, but we will know how that works wont we I most likely will be going to a carbon or steel front set up with a 100-90 front rim for winter use.
    2013 mongoose Fat bike
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  140. #140
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    Really looking forward to lots of details on fit and function.

    In particular (for me) regarding how the BFL works on the Ti (lynskey) Fatback.
    Riding: '91 Carbon Epic Stumpjumper w/1" Slicks and a Rack on the Back

  141. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by IPA Rider View Post
    Really looking forward to lots of details on fit and function.

    In particular (for me) regarding how the BFL works on the Ti (lynskey) Fatback.
    same here

  142. #142
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    I see a Moonlander non-offset 135mm fork
    Josh

  143. #143
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    A little info per Eric. Some of you may know these specs but he verified. 135mm hubs front and rear. Non offset fork. 28mm offset rear. Longer spindle to work on the ML sold separately at a later date.

  144. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by dehoff View Post
    I'd venture to guess the Black Ops to be priced close to the Mukluk 2 at ~$2100.

    Start with a $1650 Pugsley complete, add in some Mr. Whirly cranks, add some Rolling Darryl's with cutouts, new fork and some other goodies, and you'll be around $2k.
    That sounds pretty ok to me, with Microshift stuff an all (or regardless )

  145. #145
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    i know in au they only went up about $150 between the 2 bikes
    Josh

  146. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by emp? View Post
    i know in au they only went up about $150 between the 2 bikes
    Between which two bikes??

  147. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by dehoff View Post
    Between which two bikes??
    The Snowblind Pug and the Black Ops Pug.

    I was told by someone at my LBS that in fact the price was going to remain the same in the US for the two builds.

    Being my first post, I know that might not hold much weight. However, I work at said shop, and spoke with someone at QBP. Still, this bike (the black ops pug) is not available for order yet, so nothing is set in stone. I myself am skeptical, I wish we could see a full spec list of the new pugs already!

    Completely unrelated, but the reason I'm contributing; Any Pugsley owner's near Buffalo, NY? I am interested in trying one out before I pull the trigger. Even anecdotal evidence of why this bike makes sense for the Buffalo, NY area would suffice.

    Not trying to hijack OP, sorry mods if this is not the place to ask. I just recently discovered these bikes as we do not carry them, and am trying to find one to test ride!

  148. #148
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    the chubbyone is correct, between the black vs white pug
    in au RRPis $2,379.00aud for the black ops and $2,299.00aud for the White model

    moonlander is RRP $2,799.00aud
    Josh

  149. #149
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    $2,350 for a complete Moonlander? Is that correct? Wow. I can pick up 2 regular fatbikes for that... damn. Just a little too steep if you ask me...

    It does look amazing though. The paint looks dope too.

  150. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by WheelieWonka View Post
    $2,350 for a complete Moonlander? Is that correct? Wow. I can pick up 2 regular fatbikes for that... damn. Just a little too steep if you ask me...

    It does look amazing though. The paint looks dope too.
    Almost a 1/4 of that price is tire, and rim at retail level...
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  151. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by WheelieWonka View Post
    $2,350 for a complete Moonlander? Is that correct? Wow. I can pick up 2 regular fatbikes for that... damn. Just a little too steep if you ask me...
    Well, more like 1.5 stock Pugsley completes.

  152. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Diller View Post
    Well, more like 1.5 stock Pugsley completes.
    new...

    I'm hoping that a bunch of people will be dumping their pugsleys on ebay to buy the moonlander. I can't see there being a drastic difference. I'm sure more fatbike companies will be jumping on the bandwagon - MAYBE? that will bring the price down. Doubt it as the cost really is in the wheels I guess...

  153. #153
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    I think we'll see quite a few internal geared hub, 80mm rim, big fat larry conversions.

    Here's a shot of a BFL mounted to a 65mm grande margarita on my pugs. BFL is roughly the same width as my endo mounted to an 80mm GFS on the rear....but taller.

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/gomez_lakeraven/6102141094/" title="meet big fat larry by ~gomez~, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm7.static.flickr.com/6199/6102141094_702be2afb4_z.jpg" width="640" height="447" alt="meet big fat larry"></a>

  154. #154
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    Did the BFL up front change the handling much?
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  155. #155
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    Been hunting online for any Moonlander pics from Eurobike (31st August to 3rd September) but nothing yet... ah the suspense!
    plan it...build it....ride it...love it....
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  156. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by coastkid71 View Post
    Been hunting online for any Moonlander pics from Eurobike (31st August to 3rd September) but nothing yet... ah the suspense!
    Here you go, enjoy

    Moonlander:







    Black Ops:


  157. #157
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    Beautiful rig, really. I'm liking the shorter wheelbase of my pug frame w/ BFL's though.

  158. #158
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    Sweet, wonder when eurobike pics would turn up
    2014 milage so far - 2,485
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  159. #159
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    Thanks pläski
    plan it...build it....ride it...love it....
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  160. #160
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    Whoa, Surly branded Enabler forks?
    Jason
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  161. #161
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    i got my BFL today stand by for super fatback
    2013 mongoose Fat bike
    2012 Moonlander.

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  162. #162
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    Keep us posted on this please
    Quote Originally Posted by bighit View Post
    i got my BFL today stand by for super fatback

  163. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAGI410 View Post
    Whoa, Surly branded Enabler forks?
    I hope they sell the fork like this by it's self. (remove all rim brake mounts)

  164. #164
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    Do I see cleaner, sharper welds?

  165. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sand Rat View Post
    Do I see cleaner, sharper welds?
    Me thinks you've probably been looking at aluminum frames for too long.
    Jason
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  166. #166
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    Both the Black ops Pug and the Moonlander looks unbelievably good irl.

    A few pics from EB.





    Can you say offset ?


    Love it


    The Nate is a winner for sure

  167. #167
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    `No Step` sticker on the front mech, classic!
    plan it...build it....ride it...love it....
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  168. #168
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    One thing I notice is that thing has room to grow in the tire and rim dept.

    Second I do know of 120 mm rims in the Kustom bike world.

    3rd I am just saying.
    2013 mongoose Fat bike
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  169. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by bighit View Post
    ...Second I do know of 120 mm rims in the Kustom bike world...
    Got a link? BFLs + 120mm sounds like bog monster perfection
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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  170. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sverre View Post
    Both the Black ops Pug and the Moonlander looks unbelievably good irl.

    A few pics from EB.


    Looks like the problem solvers deraileur mount is extended even more than the original one that was designed for the Mukluk. And yet Surly still had no heartburn about routing the cables to use it in the top-pull configuration, instead of bottom-pull, like Salsa. Nice...

    So here's a question: Is the increased offset because the steel moonlander seat tube is smaller diameter? Or is it to increase the offset of the chainline? If it's the later, it would seem like switching to this mount, plus a longer or offset bb spindle, would be the easiest way to fit BFLs on the Mukluk.
    Last edited by iamkeith; 09-03-2011 at 09:30 AM.
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  171. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by coastkid71 View Post
    `No Step` sticker on the front mech, classic!
    I like that too! My 2011 Mukluk has it. Nice touch.
    eSpeCially CrAzy IrRegular TrailBuildin' Crew
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  172. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by iamkeith View Post
    So here's a question: Is the increased offset because the steel moonlander seat tube is smaller diameter? Or is it to increase the offset of the chainline? If it's the latter, it would seem like switching to this mount, plus a longer or offset bb spindle, would be the easiest way to fit BFLs on the Mukluk.
    The only concern with trying to offset the crankset further on a Mukluk is having sufficient BB threads engaged. I have been thinking about just using an E13 crank and putting all three spacers on one side. That would move everything closer to MWOD territory. I really would like a triple.

  173. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmucker View Post
    I have been thinking about just using an E13 crank and putting all three spacers on one side. That would move everything closer to MWOD territory. I really would like a triple.
    I did that on my Sandman, for chainstay clearance reasons, and I can't get it to stop creaking, no matter how carefully clean, grease and torque all of the parts. My guess is that there just isn't quite enough thread engagement to get a really good interface.

  174. #174
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    I will dig it up
    2013 mongoose Fat bike
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  175. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmucker View Post
    The only concern with trying to offset the crankset further on a Mukluk is having sufficient BB threads engaged. I have been thinking about just using an E13 crank and putting all three spacers on one side. That would move everything closer to MWOD territory. I really would like a triple.
    A few thoughts on this -

    I have a Fatback running 100mm rims with Larry's, and a RaceFace Atlas crankset. The Atlas uses ExtBB, but "X" type - crank axle pressed into nondrive crankarm, and has 4 1mm spacers to allow chainline adjustment. I've got all 4 on the drive side and the chain just barely touches the sidewall of the larry.

    From the various tire width measurements, I can guesstimate the BFL will be 13mm wider or 6 or 7mm further over into the chainline.

    An MWOD setup gives you an additional 5mm clearance at least, plus the supposed to be longer axle to maybe clear the sidewall. So call it clear - and running all 9 cogs in the back, maybe.

    I was in my LBS yesterday, and they happened to have a Mr.Whirley SS crankset there. We opened it up - and there does appear (we measured) to be clearance to run a triple - if you daisychain the rings together like the MWOD rings are. Granny bolts to crank w/o spider, mid bolts to granny, big bolts to mid.

    I'm also thinking that a Profile Racing crankset could do this - with a modified or no spider and Tomicogs custom chainrings.

    My BFL's should be in hand next Friday, so we'll see what we can see then. Meantime, here's a Kiloword or two:
    http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/pos...ml#post8411563
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

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  176. #176
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    Anyone from UK following this - would like to know what shops could stock the new Moonland and Black Ops Pugsley. Reading above, Australians already got their price, no news from UK though so far?

  177. #177
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    Charley the Bikemonger is taking pre orders right now for Moonlander.....

    Surly Moonlander Sand - Snow Bike 4 5 Big Fat Larry Clown shoe rims

    The price a few days ago was £2300, but I see it has dropped to £1999 for a complete moonlander. I'm tempted myself to get one for the beach & use the 907 for XC, Hmmmmm

    Any bike shop who deal with ISON should be able to source one for you by late Jan 2012 if there are no delays
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  178. #178
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    I have a 20" pre ordered from Charlie the bike monger

    Still waiting on my White 2011 pugs to come yet too

    Pugs for fun at my home, but the moonlander will be staying at my girlfriends, the huge morecambe beach and surrounding canals etc will be it's play area, can't bloody wait!

  179. #179
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    Thanks! Will contact them then.

  180. #180
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    Time for what is becoming an annual rant about tires....

    The Canadian distro for Surly are RUBBISH. You guys are all rocking the new **** again this year and our local shop is in the dark, at this point they don't even know what (if anything) they'll be able to order, nevermind being able to actually order stuff.

    Seriously.... I live in CANADA. I live NORTH OF 60, even. Winter and the start of fatbike season is one month away.

    Last year it was well into the new year before we could get Larrys... Canada got ZERO of the first run and we had to wait for the second production. Now I'm afraid we're gonna get the same deal for BFLs.

    Anyways, it's not like kittens are dying or anything, but it's still a pain.

  181. #181
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    Believe me when I say that I get the whole "think globally, spend locally" thing...but if they (the Reg.Distributor) are essentially unwilling to make things happen, order what you need online or from some other locale's LBS ( I have no doubt there are shops in Anchorage that would be willing to accept your $$). Take your receipt, write a dissatisfied customer letter and send them to the Surly and QBP person in charge of such stuff and tell them the lengths you had to go to just to get a set of tires. Emphasize what a lackluster job NRG is doing promoting and supporting their products. Get the manager of your LBS on-board and have him / her tell of all the sales that were not made through the shop because there was no product available.

    If no one tells them there is a problem, well, then there is no problem.
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  182. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmucker View Post
    The only concern with trying to offset the crankset further on a Mukluk is having sufficient BB threads engaged. I have been thinking about just using an E13 crank and putting all three spacers on one side. That would move everything closer to MWOD territory. I really would like a triple.
    Have you tried this? I was thinking of doing same on my Mukluk. I'm using a RaceFace Atlas, though. I'll post results once my BFLs arrive. It'd be nice to keep all 3 rings and hopefully 8 cogs, at least.

  183. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by cendres View Post
    Have you tried this? I was thinking of doing same on my Mukluk. I'm using a RaceFace Atlas, though. I'll post results once my BFLs arrive. It'd be nice to keep all 3 rings and hopefully 8 cogs, at least.
    As I said above, I had all three spacers on the drive side on the e.13 cranks on my Sandman, and nothing that I tried (grease, teflon tape, various torques) would keep the BB from creaking with each revolution. There just wasn't enough drive side cup threads engaged. Race Face may be a different story, however.
    Depending on the design of the frame and the crank, you may also run into non-drive-side crank arm clearance issues, ie. as you move the drive side outward, the non-drive-side will move closer to the chainstay.
    Last edited by Andy FitzGibbon; 09-24-2011 at 10:05 AM.

  184. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by cendres View Post
    Have you tried this? I was thinking of doing same on my Mukluk. I'm using a RaceFace Atlas, though. I'll post results once my BFLs arrive. It'd be nice to keep all 3 rings and hopefully 8 cogs, at least.
    RaceFace Atlas has shim spacers for the axle/crankarms as well as for the cups. The only cup spacer I'm running is the "e" front derailer. I've got all 4(?) axle spacers on the drive side - because I had to with 100mm rims and Larry. It's not enough with BFL on hundy - I'm working on Profile crank install now (MWOD equivalent)
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

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  185. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadester View Post
    RaceFace Atlas has shim spacers for the axle/crankarms as well as for the cups. The only cup spacer I'm running is the "e" front derailer. I've got all 4(?) axle spacers on the drive side - because I had to with 100mm rims and Larry. It's not enough with BFL on hundy - I'm working on Profile crank install now (MWOD equivalent)
    My Atlas is currently set up centered with two (or is it 3? I can't recall) spacers on each side and no spacer behind the cup. I'll move all of the spindle spacers over to the driveside and see what I've got. It seems I should have a bit more space than you as I'll be running the BFLs on the narrower 80mm GFS.

    If it's close, I might consider re-dishing the wheel slightly (depending on NDS stay/tire clearance). I don't mind re-spacing the cassette and giving up the small cog, but it seems like I should be able to keep the other eight.

  186. #186
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    Wadester, The details of the MWOD scenario seem clear. Though a few people have mentioned the possibility of running the Profile cranks, I haven't seen any details about how that will work i.e. what BCD, rings, spiders, ring position etc. How are you doing it?
    Thanks,
    Todd
    By the way, I'm up in Silver City. You're in Cruces right?

  187. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by nm13 View Post
    Wadester, The details of the MWOD scenario seem clear. Though a few people have mentioned the possibility of running the Profile cranks, I haven't seen any details about how that will work i.e. what BCD, rings, spiders, ring position etc. How are you doing it?
    Thanks,
    Todd
    By the way, I'm up in Silver City. You're in Cruces right?
    Yes, indeed! Las Cruces. You running a Pugs up in Silver? I've been thinking about climbing out of the sand country this winter and trying a snow ride.

    Profile cranks use a simple set of components: A splined axle w/o shoulders, cartridge bearings with a spacer sleeve/shims in between to share side loads, a spider which slips over the axle and drives via a bolt into the crank arm, enough shim washers to take up the slack, and splined press-on cranks.

    Their longest axle is 6 7/8" (175.6mm).

    It should be enough room to stack/shift the chainline clear - even if I need to machine down one or both of the "cone" spacers that cover the BB bearings. The spider is just a plate - it may get modified too. They have a spline drive spider that's dished - except it goes the wrong way.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  188. #188
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    Yes - 1st Pugs in Silver - mostly touring on forest roads. If we get any this year I'd love to join you for a snow ride.
    Interesting possibilities with the Profile cranks although it may require more technical skill than I have. I look forward to seeing what you come up with. Did you already have the Profiles or do you see advantages over the MWOD?
    Thanks again,
    Todd

  189. #189
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    What about flipping either spider around and running the small ring on the outside? Would the ring hit the crank arm? Or maybe the bolt wouldn't engage the spider correctly given the different profiles on each side of the spider? Still might work with the splined spider.

  190. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by nm13 View Post
    Yes - 1st Pugs in Silver - mostly touring on forest roads. If we get any this year I'd love to join you for a snow ride.
    Interesting possibilities with the Profile cranks although it may require more technical skill than I have. I look forward to seeing what you come up with. Did you already have the Profiles or do you see advantages over the MWOD?
    Thanks again,
    Todd
    Well....MWOD= vaporware right now. Due in oh... any time now. Or so. Any color you want so long as it's black.
    Profile = in stock. A full rainbow of colors.

    Price is about the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by nm13 View Post
    What about flipping either spider around and running the small ring on the outside? Would the ring hit the crank arm? Or maybe the bolt wouldn't engage the spider correctly given the different profiles on each side of the spider? Still might work with the splined spider.
    Yep, maybe. That's either plan B, or C, or next upgrade.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  191. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadester View Post
    Profile cranks use a simple set of components: A splined axle w/o shoulders, cartridge bearings with a spacer sleeve/shims in between to share side loads, a spider which slips over the axle and drives via a bolt into the crank arm, enough shim washers to take up the slack, and splined press-on cranks.

    Their longest axle is 6 7/8" (175.6mm).

    It should be enough room to stack/shift the chainline clear - even if I need to machine down one or both of the "cone" spacers that cover the BB bearings. The spider is just a plate - it may get modified too. They have a spline drive spider that's dished - except it goes the wrong way.
    Depending on your frame, you may run into clearance issues with the Profiles. I just returned a set of I ordered, because they wouldn't fit my Sandman- even with the 6 7/8" axle. The problem is the shape of the crank arms. Since they are a straight shot from spindle to pedal (unlike most forged cranks, which have a contour to aid crank clearance) the mid-point of the crank arms were not even close to clearing the chainstays of the Sandman.
    I was disappointed that they wouldn't work, because I was going to set them up with the same faux-Mr-Whirly setup that you describe by making a custom spider to mount the MWOD rings.

  192. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by motorman View Post
    Charley the Bikemonger is taking pre orders right now for Moonlander.....

    Any bike shop who deal with ISON should be able to source one for you by late Jan 2012 if there are no delays
    Thanks! Pre-order price for Black Ops is a whopping £1699, wondering if that's really the price, or if it will drop - any other stores going to stock/order these (still haven't found any)?

  193. #193
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    Yep...I think that is right. Everything is costing more & production costs are going up.
    Take 907 frames, they have increased by 20% this year for example. I think the call it inflation, sorry for the bad news
    Drink coffee....ride bikes....eat cake
    http://morayfatbike.blogspot.com

  194. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy FitzGibbon View Post
    As I said above, I had all three spacers on the drive side on the e.13 cranks on my Sandman, and nothing that I tried (grease, teflon tape, various torques) would keep the BB from creaking with each revolution. There just wasn't enough drive side cup threads engaged. Race Face may be a different story, however.
    Depending on the design of the frame and the crank, you may also run into non-drive-side crank arm clearance issues, ie. as you move the drive side outward, the non-drive-side will move closer to the chainstay.
    But was that three spacers AND an e-type?

    The other thing I was thinking was running a standard ISIS crank on the Truvativ Howitzer BB. The axles is out another centimeter at least. Using a standard ISIS crank on it would REALLY put it out there. It might be so far out the front derailleur may not even be able to shift all three rings.

  195. #195
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    any word on Moodlander frames being shipped by Surly.

  196. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmucker View Post
    But was that three spacers AND an e-type?
    No, just the three spacers. I don't think the threaded area of the cups would be long enough to safely torque them with three spacers and the E-type (basically four spacers).
    Also, the spindle wouldn't be long enough with four spacers in place- you wouldn't be able to install the non-drive-side crankarm.

  197. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~gomez~ View Post
    I think we'll see quite a few internal geared hub, 80mm rim, big fat larry conversions.

    Here's a shot of a BFL mounted to a 65mm grande margarita on my pugs. BFL is roughly the same width as my endo mounted to an 80mm GFS on the rear....but taller.

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/gomez_lakeraven/6102141094/" title="meet big fat larry by ~gomez~, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm7.static.flickr.com/6199/6102141094_702be2afb4_z.jpg" width="640" height="447" alt="meet big fat larry"></a>
    What brand front rack is it. Looks to be no problem with the BFL

  198. #198
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    At least the cheap rack from Edinburg Bicycle works fine with BFL on GFS (only in the back for now):

    My outdoor blog: www.yetirides.com

  199. #199
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    nice!

  200. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fresno View Post
    What brand front rack is it. Looks to be no problem with the BFL
    A-train Cycles

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