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  1. #1
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    Good job! Vertigo Cycles Fatbike

    So I've been ruminating a fatbike for a while now, talked in earnest to several builders, but finally hired Sean of Vertigo Cycles to build one for me. I decided to go with him because he's an innovative, down to earth, good guy. It didn't hurt that he used to be local, knows how I ride and where I like to.

    This bike isn't built primarily for the snow. It'll be a trail, rock, and tech bomber with short chainstays and laid back head angle, among other things. I plan to clobber, squash, crush, and plain ol' destroy anything that gets in my way, including squirrels.
    ...OK, not really What I do plan to do is have as much fun and keep rolling as much as possible over as many obstacles in as many conditions as I can.

    I haven't completely decided on the parts, but I like to tinker. I'll probably start with a Salsa Enabler fork (which fits the A-C of the design), but I'm also in the queue for Lefty clamps. It'll be dressed as a singlespeed or a gearie when the mood strikes.

    It's being made. Here are some pics from his flickr site. I'll update this thread with build pics and words as they come. Hope you don't mind.

    -rickyd



    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  2. #2
    Hybrid Leftys aren't real Moderator
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    Nice! Good looking work there.

    Sold another Pug today. Fat love is blowin' in the wind.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  3. #3
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    Will be sick. Just curious, but why not have Sean build you a fork?

  4. #4
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    Psick! I can't wait to see it!!


  5. #5
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    Sean continues to impress, looking forward to seeing this one finished.
    I only ride bikes to fill the time when I'm not skiing.

  6. #6
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    niiiiiiice!
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  7. #7
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    DT/BB -


    DT/BB fitup -


    BB/ST fitup - Curvy seat tube


    Cutting the TT for the ST -
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  8. #8
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    love the curvy seat tube
    Damn Nice

    Sj
    I am slow therefore I am

  9. #9
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    Taking shape:

    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  10. #10
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    WOW Sexy!!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil View Post
    Taking shape:

    What? Only one top tube?
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  12. #12
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    pure sex
    your 29er may float over roots and rocks, but my superlight 26 just plain floats

  13. #13
    Geordie biker
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    Sweeeeet
    2014 milage so far - 2,485
    www.ukfatbikes.co.uk

  14. #14
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    Beautiful;

    Might you be able to share the tubing specs? I'm in contemplation mode.

  15. #15
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    Latest pic from a few days ago. These are the seat stays:

    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  16. #16
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    Seatstays:



    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  17. #17
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    sweet as....its going to be cool to see this bike, and also cool to see you putting it through its paces :-)~
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  18. #18
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    How did I just see this now? I love Vertigo bikes, mostly because of DrjOn's bikes and following his flickr stream. This is interesting to me as I love the idea of the not for snow fat bike. So looking forward to updates and such.
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  19. #19
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    Is Speedway the only ones making decent fat rims in SILVER? I need one offset drilled rim so that I can build a Lefty fat wheel. Already called Speedway and they don't have any offset drilled silver rims in stock.

    The other option is to find a rim that already has the offset row of spoke holes and repaint it. So, has anyone stripped or repainted the Large Marge Lite? If so, how'd it turn out?

    A few people have suggested that I could drill new spoke holes in a silver Speedway rim, and I'm considering it if I can't source what I'm looking for. Just seems a little scary to do to a brand new $150+ part

    Please lemme know if you have any other ideas or leads. Thanks!
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil View Post
    Is Speedway the only ones making decent fat rims in SILVER? I need one offset drilled rim so that I can build a Lefty fat wheel. Already called Speedway and they don't have any offset drilled silver rims in stock.

    The other option is to find a rim that already has the offset row of spoke holes and repaint it. So, has anyone stripped or repainted the Large Marge Lite? If so, how'd it turn out?

    A few people have suggested that I could drill new spoke holes in a silver Speedway rim, and I'm considering it if I can't source what I'm looking for. Just seems a little scary to do to a brand new $150+ part

    Please lemme know if you have any other ideas or leads. Thanks!
    According to Speedways neww site they list their rims as available in offset. I dont think it's correct but you might want to check it out.

  21. #21
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    I'm sweatin' here








    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  22. #22
    Hybrid Leftys aren't real Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil View Post
    I'm sweatin' here
    I do love this part.....
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  23. #23
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    If you find a eyelet-less rim with a welded joint, you can have them re-anodized... ask Surly to see whether the Marge Lite is bonded or welded.

    P.S. How can you not have wheels ready yet?!


    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil View Post
    Is Speedway the only ones making decent fat rims in SILVER? I need one offset drilled rim so that I can build a Lefty fat wheel. Already called Speedway and they don't have any offset drilled silver rims in stock.

    The other option is to find a rim that already has the offset row of spoke holes and repaint it. So, has anyone stripped or repainted the Large Marge Lite? If so, how'd it turn out?

    A few people have suggested that I could drill new spoke holes in a silver Speedway rim, and I'm considering it if I can't source what I'm looking for. Just seems a little scary to do to a brand new $150+ part

    Please lemme know if you have any other ideas or leads. Thanks!

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil View Post
    Is Speedway the only ones making decent fat rims in SILVER? I need one offset drilled rim so that I can build a Lefty fat wheel. Already called Speedway and they don't have any offset drilled silver rims in stock.

    The other option is to find a rim that already has the offset row of spoke holes and repaint it. So, has anyone stripped or repainted the Large Marge Lite? If so, how'd it turn out?

    A few people have suggested that I could drill new spoke holes in a silver Speedway rim, and I'm considering it if I can't source what I'm looking for. Just seems a little scary to do to a brand new $150+ part

    Please lemme know if you have any other ideas or leads. Thanks!
    Just as a note, you don't need to build Lefty into offset drilling - this is crosslaced 3x:

    The USChopper 100mm rim is available in silver (the one above was powdercoated)
    Rim Only 26 x 4 Silver - Cycles U.S. LLC/Choppers U.S.
    You do have to get a P321 36h hub, since the rims are 36h only. 65, 80, and 100mm width.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  25. #25
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    This bike is gonna be unreal.

  26. #26
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    Quote Originally Posted by aosty View Post
    If you find a eyelet-less rim with a welded joint, you can have them re-anodized... ask Surly to see whether the Marge Lite is bonded or welded.

    P.S. How can you not have wheels ready yet?!
    Ha! Look what the cat dragged in. You looking for a fatty now too?

    I haven't built the wheels yet because I wasn't sure which direction I'd go with the fork (Enabler, White Bros, Lefty, etc.) Unfortunately, they're all incompatible with each other's hubs, so I held off building until I decided. I'll run the Lefty, but I'm also looking at rigid options.

    Regarding re-anodizing, can you go from a darker color (black) to a lighter color?

    Wadester- MendonCycleSmith and I had a phone discussion over Lefty wheel options, and your name came up. I've been looking at your old threads, and frankly, your wheel lacing looks intimidating. I've built maybe 50 wheels, but it has always been 3x with no fanciness whatsoever. Those rims look solid and...heavy. I'm looking to go as light as I can, and drilled-out single wall rims look to be the way to go.
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  27. #27
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    This is pure bike porn
    Moonlander's
    Sandman Hogger Ti

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil View Post
    Ha! Look what the cat dragged in. You looking for a fatty now too?

    I picked up a sweet second-hand Pugsley a few months ago... love it!


    Regarding re-anodizing, can you go from a darker color (black) to a lighter color?
    Yep, they will chemically strip the previous color.

  29. #29
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    this forum is killing me. Between building Ricky's bike (which is amazing fun) and looking through Mike C's thread I'm having a bit of an internal struggle right now as to whether or not I should slot myself into the next available build opening.

    Big thanks to Ricky for giving me the opportunity and to Mike for setting the bar so high.
    Sean Chaney :: Owner/Builder :: Vertigo Cycles

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by smudge View Post
    ...... I'm having a bit of an internal struggle right now as to whether or not I should slot myself into the next available build opening.
    Well...

    What else should one do with all of their scads of free time?

    Stunning work.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluestatevirgin View Post
    This bike is gonna be unreal.
    Looks real to me!

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil View Post
    I'm sweatin' here








    Wicked nice! I can't wait to see this one!


  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by smudge View Post
    this forum is killing me. Between building Ricky's bike (which is amazing fun) and looking through Mike C's thread I'm having a bit of an internal struggle right now as to whether or not I should slot myself into the next available build opening.

    Big thanks to Ricky for giving me the opportunity and to Mike for setting the bar so high.
    What, no NAHBS? I'm sure you're busy and the show is costly, but this bike...

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluestatevirgin View Post
    What, no NAHBS? I'm sure you're busy and the show is costly, but this bike...
    No NAHBS this year. The cost of NAHBS is worth the exposure potential without a doubt, but it interfered with some family planning. I need this time to focus on preparing for rugrat #2 rather than fretting about a display, crating, t-shirts and all the associated hoopla.

    Besides, Ricky doesn't even have wheels yet...sheesh.
    Sean Chaney :: Owner/Builder :: Vertigo Cycles

  35. #35
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    Awesome, and how could you not build one for yourself smudge!

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by smudge View Post
    this forum is killing me. Between building Ricky's bike (which is amazing fun) and looking through Mike C's thread I'm having a bit of an internal struggle right now as to whether or not I should slot myself into the next available build opening.

    Big thanks to Ricky for giving me the opportunity and to Mike for setting the bar so high.
    Sean, you have to build one for yourself.
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil View Post
    Is Speedway the only ones making decent fat rims in SILVER? I need one offset drilled rim so that I can build a Lefty fat wheel. Already called Speedway and they don't have any offset drilled silver rims in stock.

    The other option is to find a rim that already has the offset row of spoke holes and repaint it. So, has anyone stripped or repainted the Large Marge Lite? If so, how'd it turn out?

    A few people have suggested that I could drill new spoke holes in a silver Speedway rim, and I'm considering it if I can't source what I'm looking for. Just seems a little scary to do to a brand new $150+ part

    Please lemme know if you have any other ideas or leads. Thanks!
    Redrilling singlewall rims is a piece o' cake.

    If I were you I'd find your preferred rim based on it's specs and build history (and I know this guy who knows a bit about these things...) and then have it stripped and polished.

  38. #38
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    WOW! Looks real purty! But heavy and flexy

  39. #39
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    Shiny fat rims



    What I use. Heavy, and haven't managed to bend one yet.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

  40. #40
    Hybrid Leftys aren't real Moderator
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    I like shiny.....

    On removing ano. If you like DIY, I've had luck with EZ Off. Just like with paint stripper, let the chemicals do the work, don't rush it.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Vertigo Cycles Fatbike-clamps-5.jpg  

    Vertigo Cycles Fatbike-rim-one.jpg  

    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



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  41. #41
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    That sure is a work of art. Looking forward to the final build!
    Disclaimer: Posted by Fitzgerald's Bicycles in Victor, ID.

  42. #42
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    Smokin'!



    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  43. #43
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    Nothing but the finest for this steed:




    1. High-rise steel handlebar for strength
    2. Post Moderne seatpost 26.6mm (might need a shim for 30.9mm)
    3. Adjustable angle stem for easy adjustments in varying terrain
    4. Avocet bottle cages, powdercoated pink
    5. Scott AT-4 grips (made of real Kraton!)
    6. Jandd pink handlebar bag with WOMBATS patch for power pills and energy snacks
    7. Avid SD 2.0 cantilever brake levers
    8. Gorilla brake booster for awesome skids
    9. Cane Creek handlebar end grip extenders for aero tucks
    10. Forte Easy Rider saddle in case the 'roids flare up



    If Sean doesn't get the cantilever posts on the frame, I'll have to think of something else for #7 and #8.
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  44. #44
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    you had me had me at that killer frame.
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  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil View Post
    Nothing but the finest for this steed:




    1. High-rise steel handlebar for strength
    2. Post Moderne seatpost 26.6mm (might need a shim for 30.9mm)
    3. Adjustable angle stem for easy adjustments in varying terrain
    4. Avocet bottle cages, powdercoated pink
    5. Scott AT-4 grips (made of real Kraton!)
    6. Jandd pink handlebar bag with WOMBATS patch for power pills and energy snacks
    7. Avid SD 2.0 cantilever brake levers
    8. Gorilla brake booster for awesome skids
    9. Cane Creek handlebar end grip extenders for aero tucks
    10. Forte Easy Rider saddle in case the 'roids flare up



    If Sean doesn't get the cantilever posts on the frame, I'll have to think of something else for #7 and #8.
    Pimp!
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  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil View Post
    Nothing but the finest for this steed:


    1. High-rise steel handlebar for strength
    2. Post Moderne seatpost 26.6mm (might need a shim for 30.9mm)
    3. Adjustable angle stem for easy adjustments in varying terrain
    4. Avocet bottle cages, powdercoated pink
    5. Scott AT-4 grips (made of real Kraton!)
    6. Jandd pink handlebar bag with WOMBATS patch for power pills and energy snacks
    7. Avid SD 2.0 cantilever brake levers
    8. Gorilla brake booster for awesome skids
    9. Cane Creek handlebar end grip extenders for aero tucks
    10. Forte Easy Rider saddle in case the 'roids flare up


    If Sean doesn't get the cantilever posts on the frame, I'll have to think of something else for #7 and #8.
    Awesome ...

  47. #47
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    So, not being terribly familiar with Vertigo, you'll forgive the question....

    Ti, or stainless? The welds look steelish, hence the question.

    Lookin' sweet, LOVE the build kit
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  48. #48
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    titaniyummy
    For a rock steady Gas Tank bag > the DeWidget

    bit.ly/BuyDeWidget

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  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    So, not being terribly familiar with Vertigo, you'll forgive the question....

    Ti, or stainless? The welds look steelish, hence the question.

    Lookin' sweet, LOVE the build kit
    Craig,

    That's a photo of a fusion weld, where the two tubes are simply melted together with no filler. That's why it looks so tiny. If one were to try to get the full weld width in this manner, the mitered tube would tear open. The fusion ensures full weld penetration and is followed by another pass to add the filler and bring the joint up to strength.
    Sean Chaney :: Owner/Builder :: Vertigo Cycles

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by smudge View Post
    Craig,

    That's a photo of a fusion weld, where the two tubes are simply melted together with no filler. That's why it looks so tiny. If one were to try to get the full weld width in this manner, the mitered tube would tear open. The fusion ensures full weld penetration and is followed by another pass to add the filler and bring the joint up to strength.
    This is interesting;

    Laying down a contiguous "bed" for the actual weld to nest/fuse into. Very interesting. I had never considered this, but it makes perfect sense! As he suggests, even with exceptional miters (which are mandatory for this), you are stealing material from both tubes to create this fusion, and necessarily thinning them at a critical juncture. You can do this with some materials and in certain applications and get away with a fusion weld alone (I do it on stainless intercooler/intake hard pipes), but not in this case. It also occurs to me that this fusion step makes it much easier to get visually stunning (and structurally solid) final welds when it is time to add the filler.

    Thanks for letting that little trick slip out!
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  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrailMaker View Post
    This is interesting;

    Laying down a contiguous "bed" for the actual weld to nest/fuse into. Very interesting. I had never considered this, but it makes perfect sense! As he suggests, even with exceptional miters (which are mandatory for this), you are stealing material from both tubes to create this fusion, and necessarily thinning them at a critical juncture. You can do this with some materials and in certain applications and get away with a fusion weld alone (I do it on stainless intercooler/intake hard pipes), but not in this case. It also occurs to me that this fusion step makes it much easier to get visually stunning (and structurally solid) final welds when it is time to add the filler.

    Thanks for letting that little trick slip out!
    exactly right on all counts but it also gives the joint some thermal stability when you go back to add filler, all but entirely preventing too big a keyhole opening thanks to too much heat.

    if you ever get an opportunity to cut up a bike, take it. Specifically, cut through an acute joint to see if there's a gap underneath the weld bead. Ideally, you won't see any air space at all between the two parent tubes. In a lot of cases though, you'll find that the filler rod "bridges" between them, leaving a triangular gap. With something as notch-sensitive as ti, that's bad news bears.
    Sean Chaney :: Owner/Builder :: Vertigo Cycles

  52. #52
    Hybrid Leftys aren't real Moderator
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    Thanks for the info Sean, sexy lookin' rig you're building there!
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil View Post
    Nothing but the finest for this steed:




    1. High-rise steel handlebar for strength
    2. Post Moderne seatpost 26.6mm (might need a shim for 30.9mm)
    3. Adjustable angle stem for easy adjustments in varying terrain
    4. Avocet bottle cages, powdercoated pink
    5. Scott AT-4 grips (made of real Kraton!)
    6. Jandd pink handlebar bag with WOMBATS patch for power pills and energy snacks
    7. Avid SD 2.0 cantilever brake levers
    8. Gorilla brake booster for awesome skids
    9. Cane Creek handlebar end grip extenders for aero tucks
    10. Forte Easy Rider saddle in case the 'roids flare up



    If Sean doesn't get the cantilever posts on the frame, I'll have to think of something else for #7 and #8.
    Haha! Nice! I'm old enough to remember the WOmens' Mountain Biking And Tea Society (WOMBATS). I may have some of that old gear in my box o' parts - probly the pink grips and the SD 2's.

  54. #54
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    really like the look of this fatbike. got any numbers of that geo? How short did you manage to get the chain stays?

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil View Post
    Smokin'!



    WOW! I cannot muster anything more!


  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil View Post
    I haven't completely decided on the parts, but I like to tinker. I'll probably start with a Salsa Enabler fork (which fits the A-C of the design), but I'm also in the queue for Lefty clamps. It'll be dressed as a singlespeed or a gearie when the mood strikes.
    Since it's getting closer, I figured it was time to start gathering together the parts. Some of it recently purchased, some of it NOS, and some of it being stolen off other bikes:



    Have:
    • Fat Lefty Clamp (ala Mendon Cyclesmith)
    • Tires: Almost all of 'em
    • Spokes: double butted silver
    • Brake Levers: Paul or Avid Ultimate (haven't decided which to use)
    • Saddle: Specialized Phenom or WTB (undecided)
    • Grips: Oury (whichever matches the saddle)
    • Jones Ti Loop Bar
    • Thomson Stem
    • Eriksen 450mm 30.9 seatpost
    • Speedway Uma 50mm rim for rear
    • Avid Full Metal Jacket brake cables
    • Paul Shifter Mounts
    • Dura Ace Shifters
    • XTR Rear Derailleur
    • XTR Pedals
    • Middleburn 58/94 170mm crank
    • PC-951 Chain
    • Pink and silver streamers



    Haven't yet:
    • BB-7 Brakes, 160s both ends
    • Phil Wood Ti BB
    • Endless Kick-Ass-Cog/ XT Cassette
    • Some sort of direct mount front derailleur
    • Project 321 Lefty hub
    • Surly Large Marge Lite rim
    • Silver Reflective tape for rim holes


    If I do throw rigid into the mix, I'm thinking of getting a Carver O'Beast. It works with the fat front wheel I already use on my Jones (Paul Whub).
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  57. #57
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    i particularly like the tassels...one in either direction?
    For a rock steady Gas Tank bag > the DeWidget

    bit.ly/BuyDeWidget

    https://www.instagram.com/drj0n_bagworks/

  58. #58
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    I see you are going with the dual-seat option, good choice.

    Looking forward to the build-up pics.

  59. #59
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    nice work!!

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockin View Post
    I see you are going with the dual-seat option, good choice.

    Looking forward to the build-up pics.
    2 seats, 4 tires and half a fork...

  61. #61
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    that's a nice list of parts, Jones bar is supersweet!!!
    mount a lefty in the frame is awsome, do you have a technical drawing of those clamps for the lefty ??
    miesj

    create your own FAT path 2 succes, don't just follow others

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmooveP View Post
    2 seats, 4 tires and half a fork...
    hilarious

  63. #63
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    Quote Originally Posted by elgordo View Post
    hilarious
    You forgot the prior post. There'll be 3 seats, 2 bars, and 6 brake levers. This thing is gonna be outta control!
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  64. #64
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    Quote Originally Posted by miesj View Post
    that's a nice list of parts, Jones bar is supersweet!!!
    mount a lefty in the frame is awsome, do you have a technical drawing of those clamps for the lefty ??
    No sir. Hit up Mendon C to the S for the numbers.
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  65. #65
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    I'm still curious how you're going to keep those tassels attached to your nipples for an entire ride.
    Sean Chaney :: Owner/Builder :: Vertigo Cycles

  66. #66
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    Different rims front and rear...? Why...?

  67. #67
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    Because Lefty is offset, and the Marge Lite has an offset spoke bed, is relatively light, and is available now. Why not the same on the back? Because I bought it a little ways back, plus I already know it works well for me.
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by smudge View Post
    I'm still curious how you're going to keep those tassels attached to your nipples for an entire ride.
    With nipple clamps, of course.
    (Sorry, no pics - you'll have to look that up for yourselves.)

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil View Post
    Because Lefty is offset, and the Marge Lite has an offset spoke bed, is relatively light, and is available now. Why not the same on the back? Because I bought it a little ways back, plus I already know it works well for me.
    I've just put together a lefty wheel with a 80mm GFS, with non-offset drilling. Theres a fair amount of tension on the right side, with a notable amount less on the left side. But IMHO these tensions are fine. With a BFL mounted (at 18 PSI), the disc mounts of the hub, are 1-2 mm from the floor when laid flat. So I'm not sure you actually need an offset rim to make this work. In fact when I get my Lefty, I fully expect to be able to losen the right nips half a turn, while tensioning the left by the same.

    Also the project 321 hub is a lovely component. So well made.
    A big boy did it, and ran away.
    62*28'

  70. #70
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    "Direct" from Sean:

    A slightly augmented Direct mount standoff

    Make it work, then make it pretty.


    The standoff wasn't long enough to work with a 100mm shell with a +5mm offset for the rings so...
    machined a sleeve to a light press fit, welded around the circumference, turned the weld into a taper, mitered for extra tire clearance, cut a hunk out of a scrap tube, shaped and then fusion welded. Then the weld cap was filed down to make it look as if it were machined from a solid bar.
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil View Post


    "Direct" from Sean:

    A slightly augmented Direct mount standoff

    Make it work, then make it pretty.


    The standoff wasn't long enough to work with a 100mm shell with a +5mm offset for the rings so...
    machined a sleeve to a light press fit, welded around the circumference, turned the weld into a taper, mitered for extra tire clearance, cut a hunk out of a scrap tube, shaped and then fusion welded. Then the weld cap was filed down to make it look as if it were machined from a solid bar.
    Hoe Lee Cow. That is a pretty part. Function over form always works for this architect!
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  72. #72
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    i didnt fully clock that you were getting front gearage on this beast til i saw these pics...thats super cool...short fat and shifty!//// impressive space management..!
    For a rock steady Gas Tank bag > the DeWidget

    bit.ly/BuyDeWidget

    https://www.instagram.com/drj0n_bagworks/

  73. #73
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    Sorry I missed this one for so long. Nice bike Drevil.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  74. #74
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    Quote Originally Posted by dRjOn View Post
    i didnt fully clock that you were getting front gearage on this beast til i saw these pics...thats super cool...short fat and shifty!//// impressive space management..!
    After 10 years of almost exclusively riding rigid singlespeeds, I wanted a change. Besides, I have enough fine examples of them.

    The sliding drops are insurance, just in case.
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  75. #75
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  76. #76
    Full Tilt Boogie
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    The epitome of a custom bike. Simply gorgeous.
    I sell bikes here. Check out the Blog here. Facebook.

  77. #77
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    Mmmmmmkay...

    We're gonna skip a few steps and go straight to where it is sitting in my dining room. I don't have all the parts yet, but I have some parts that will proxy until I decide exactly what I want. Plus, I have to build a rear wheel. Hopefully I got the right size spokes

    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil View Post

    Wow!
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  79. #79
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    hmmm? why is the ST bent??????
    LOL, looks real nice like!

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by osty View Post
    hmmm? why is the ST bent??????
    LOL, looks real nice like!
    Layback, son!
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  81. #81
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    outstanding...
    For a rock steady Gas Tank bag > the DeWidget

    bit.ly/BuyDeWidget

    https://www.instagram.com/drj0n_bagworks/

  82. #82
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    "........................" (speechless)
    Life IS a Beach and then you Corrode :)

  83. #83
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    At midnight I decided I wasn't going to be able to sleep with a brand new frame sitting downstairs. Got up, and gathered parts I needed to start building the rear wheel. After lacing a side...OY! The 170mm rear hub doesn't fit into my Park TS-2 truing stand. ARRRRGGGGHHHH. After a few minutes of trying to figure out how to make it work, I came up with this solution:



    Yup, I used a mini-tripod for my P&S velcro-d to the chainstay. Seems like this could come in handy on a ride

    Anyways, after 5 more hours of tinkering, I come up with this:



    Long night into morning. I haven't taken it outside yet to give it a whirl. This is gonna be rough Easter mass and brunch in a couple of hours because of the exhaustion and the anticipation.

    You'll probably see parts swapped on and off. I tinker a bit.

    16.5" chainstays with the current gear ratio, with a little room to go even shorter
    Last edited by Drevil; 04-08-2012 at 02:48 AM.
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  84. #84
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    That's what I call a sleepless night well spent. Funny how bike frame's and parts is stronger than caffeine.


    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil View Post
    At midnight I decided I wasn't going to be able to sleep with a brand new frame sitting downstairs.

    Anyways, after 5 more hours of tinkering, I come up with this:



    Long night into morning. I haven't taken it outside yet to give it a whirl. This is gonna be rough Easter mass and brunch in a couple of hours because of the exhaustion and the anticipation.

    You'll probably see parts swapped on and off. I tinker a bit.

    16.5" chainstays with the current gear ratio, with a little room to go even shorter
    Lucky neighbor of Maryland's Patapsco Valley State Park, 39.23,-76.76 Flickr

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil View Post
    At midnight I decided I wasn't going to be able to sleep with a brand new frame sitting downstairs. Got up, and gathered parts I needed to start building the rear wheel. After lacing a side...OY! The 170mm rear hub doesn't fit into my Park TS-2 truing stand. ARRRRGGGGHHHH. After a few minutes of trying to figure out how to make it work, I came up with this solution:



    Yup, I used a mini-tripod for my P&S velcro-d to the chainstay. Seems like this could come in handy on a ride

    Anyways, after 5 more hours of tinkering, I come up with this:


    Long night into morning. I haven't taken it outside yet to give it a whirl. This is gonna be rough Easter mass and brunch in a couple of hours because of the exhaustion and the anticipation.

    You'll probably see parts swapped on and off. I tinker a bit.

    16.5" chainstays with the current gear ratio, with a little room to go even shorter

    Looks great Drevil! Enjoy the maiden ride!

  86. #86
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    That is one hell of a seatpost! It's like you put fat tires and a seat on a trials bike. How long is that post??

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by willapajames View Post
    That is one hell of a seatpost! It's like you put fat tires and a seat on a trials bike. How long is that post??
    It's an Eriksen 30.9 custom length of 450. Straight top tube straight into the seatstays coupled with long seatposts have always been über sexy to me.
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  88. #88
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    Finally! Very hot... congrats.

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil View Post
    Straight top tube straight into the seatstays coupled with long seatposts have always been über sexy to me.
    I share your sentiment!


  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil View Post


    Just swap an itty bity post on for Trials fun!
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  91. #91
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    A few shots from today's ride at Fountainhead in northern Virginia.












    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  92. #92
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    the coolest fat tyred bike ive ever seen. love it.
    For a rock steady Gas Tank bag > the DeWidget

    bit.ly/BuyDeWidget

    https://www.instagram.com/drj0n_bagworks/

  93. #93
    Hybrid Leftys aren't real Moderator
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    Wowsers!!!

    That looks awesome Ricky. Looks like a big old happy smile on your face too, nice work.

    Ride report???
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  94. #94
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    WOW!
    thats all..

  95. #95
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    Very nice.

    Must be really light - the wheels don't seem to touch the ground much...
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

  96. #96
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    Very nice.

    Must be really light - the wheels don't seem to touch the ground much...
    Ha! I guess if you consider 29.78 pounds light (including chain lube!)

    Third ride tonight. One tough crash while racing my 9-year old nephew and me catching a pedal on a hidden rock at a peppy pace. Some of my parts still smart. Otherwise, very fun to boost.



    The rides have been mellow so far. Next ride is a 13 hour race on Saturday. Luckily I'm on a team, and I'm perfectly content with going at my own happy pace.
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil View Post
    ...very fun to boost.
    One of my favorite Fat traits...man, you can get some serious pop off of stuff!


  98. #98
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    Nice bike.

    I like the long post. Looks kind of old school ala Cunningham Bradbury plus should provide for a bit more flex / cush than a short one.

    How are the brakes working out for you? I noticed it took a lot more brake force to stop when I built up my fat bike. I have a 203 front and 160 rear with 1st generation Saint brakes ( which aren't as strong as new Saints ). I'd like to switch out to a 180mm rear as it takes a fair amount of pressure to lock up the rear tire.

    I've been moving to bigger rotors as a rule the last year. 180 front and 160 rear on lighter bikes and 203 front 180 rear on heavier bikes. It makes life easier. But there is a balance. I had a 203 on the front of my 3 speed and it was too grabby so I went with a 180 which is better.

    I'd even like to try 224mm F 203mm R on the DH 29er project.

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by modifier View Post
    Nice bike.


    I'd even like to try 224mm F 203mm R on the DH 29er project.
    My god ... what are you trying to stop a tractor trailer?

    Joking aside, I found 160 F& R way to weak for fat wheels. I'm running 180 F&R and its great. Maybe a bit more in the front like a new SLX/XT/XTR hydro and 180 rotor!

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by elgordo View Post
    My god ... what are you trying to stop a tractor trailer?
    Almost 8" travel front and back and 2.5 meaty 29er tires on 44mm rims. That all adds up to some speed, traction and leverage on them little brakes.

  101. #101
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    Quote Originally Posted by elgordo View Post
    My god ... what are you trying to stop a tractor trailer?

    Joking aside, I found 160 F& R way to weak for fat wheels. I'm running 180 F&R and its great. Maybe a bit more in the front like a new SLX/XT/XTR hydro and 180 rotor!
    This is jiving with my experience as well. I know I have 180s in my basement somewhere and will be replacing the 160s ASAP. If the stopping is still subpar, I may try hydros.

    The only reason I'm always catching air is because my brakes aren't slowing me down!
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  102. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil View Post
    This is jiving with my experience as well. I know I have 180s in my basement somewhere and will be replacing the 160s ASAP. If the stopping is still subpar, I may try hydros.
    Careful, once you make the switch, you'll never look back.
    Sean Chaney :: Owner/Builder :: Vertigo Cycles

  103. #103
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    She's not totally done yet, but I'm enjoying her as the parts trickle in. XTR hydro brakes last night. Way better than the Avid Ultimate & BB-7 setup.





    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  104. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil View Post
    She's not totally done yet, but I'm enjoying her as the parts trickle in. XTR hydro brakes last night. Way better than the Avid Ultimate & BB-7 setup.

    Looks great RickyI The new XTR hydros have a lot of bite! I love mine and will be throwing a set on my Vertigo ... when she arrives ...
    Last edited by elgordo; 04-25-2012 at 05:08 AM.

  105. #105
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    back up them steps ya go........

  106. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    back up them steps ya go........
    I can go up steps, but I think this set is way too long and steep to for me
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  107. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil View Post
    I can go up steps, but I think this set is way too long and steep to for me
    agreed way steep.

  108. #108
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    So for the first time, I went to a really rocky (to me) trail yesterday on my fatty yesterday. It's the Frederick Watershed in Maryland, and offers some of the most tech riding within an hour of DC.

    I'll be honest -- I'm worked over. I definitely need to figure out both tire pressure and shock pressure because I was bouncing around a bit. I didn't lower my tire pressures until the end because I desperately didn't want a flat. Huge mistake, and I'll try to run 'em softer from the start.

    As expected, traction is INSANE. I could take my time coming down rock faces that were steep enough to have my arse skimming the rear tire while the front Nate kept it under control. Previously mentioned though, the high pressures would knock me off-line occasionally when going through a rock garden. I'm guessing I was at around 20psi, compared to my fat front Jones at around 11-12 psi. The Lefty made it easier to descend fast, thus I was scared of pinch flatting.

    Unfortunately, I believe the increased weight makes a difference. I gain at least 8 lbs coming from my other rock-trailworthy bike. Guess I just have to stop getting fatter and start getting fitter

    I wish we took more pics, but the group had a good flow going so we didn't stop to session too much. It's hard to tell because my fatbody is covering it up, but there's tech stuff behind me (and it got way more gnar-gnar ).



    Any other DC-area fatties want to join me for a rocky ride up there some time soon? If'n you want to try my adventure yourself, here's the route I took:
    - Start at Hamburg Rd parking lot
    - Go South, and jump onto and descend Lawn Mower
    - Cross over to Rusted Bug
    - Head to Knuckle Buster
    - Turn right on Blue and descend as fast as you can
    - Turn right and go up to Enchanted Forest. Watch people crash on the rocks and laugh.
    - Descend Fishing Creek, go left, then right up "Fish Ladder" on the Blue trail
    - Right at the top, then left do insanely fun Super Sweet descent. Your hands should be locking up from squeezing the brakes too much at this point.
    - Do Rock Candy.
    - Turn right onto Gambrill Park rd
    - Left onto insanely hard Vandal trail.
    - Pop out onto fireroad, then ride to the shed at the bottom of Mountaindale.
    - Either cry because you have to turn around and climb 4 miles straight up to the car, or hop in a car waiting for you to shuttle you back up
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  109. #109
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    Looks like a gorgeous day.

    Funny, I just did some comparison testing after putting the front end through it's paces on the new bike.

    Rode a demo Pug I built up, so rigid. but a CUS Hundie with a Nate up front. Ran it about 9, maybe 10 psi. Was having a good time, ripped through a little rock garden, and CREAMED the rim. No idea how I didn't pinch flat, but I didn't. Took it at the speed I'd grown accustomed to over the last few weeks.

    I weigh about 180 with gear, run my fork non volume reduced, about 150psi. 8.5 in the BFL.

    Same trail, next time, just blasting through, no rock hit at all.

    Go softer my friend, and perhaps increase your rebound damping to control bounce better =
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

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    Yeah! Looks like my kinda place - green, rocky & rooty. Rode Gambrill maybe 15 years ago and had a great time. Wish it was closer.

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    I passed your group going out/back on Seneca Ridge Sat morning. Would have stopped to chat if at the trailhead or you weren't riding with 8 people. Not interested in holding so many people up so I just passed through catching a glance of the fat. Maybe another time.

  112. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil View Post



    Nice jersey, awesome bike.

  113. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil View Post
    Any other DC-area fatties want to join me for a rocky ride up there some time soon?
    "DC-area fatties". Right now I'm a DC-area fatty (body, not bike) who rides a 29er. I'm loving the pics of your bike and the areas around here that you're riding.

  114. #114
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    SlimGoodbody.jpg
    Nice bibs!



    Amazing bike. Great concept and beautiful execution by Sean.

  115. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by bme107 View Post
    I passed your group going out/back on Seneca Ridge Sat morning. Would have stopped to chat if at the trailhead or you weren't riding with 8 people. Not interested in holding so many people up so I just passed through catching a glance of the fat. Maybe another time.
    Thanks for props, folks. I love the variety and amount of trails that we have around the DC area.

    BME, were you by yourself or with another group? If any of y'all see me on the trail, it'd be cool to meet you.

    -ricky
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

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    I will bring my fat bike out next time but I don't think I can do the shed on the fat. Not enough lungs.

  117. #117
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    So I know one is not suppose to ask, but how much a master piece like this frame cost, man I can not stop thinking about it.

  118. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil View Post
    Unfortunately, I believe the increased weight makes a difference. I gain at least 8 lbs coming from my other rock-trailworthy bike. Guess I just have to stop getting fatter and start getting fitter
    No doubt eight pounds mostly in the wheels makes a huge difference! That is the main issue keeping me off fattys for the trail. I still sort of want one for soft surfaces though.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  119. #119
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    looks crazy, good luck

  120. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by patineto View Post
    So I know one is not suppose to ask, but how much a master piece like this frame cost, man I can not stop thinking about it.
    Ha! I honestly don't remember exactly how much it costs, but you can get an idea by looking at this page:
    Vertigo Cycles :: Pricing

    Add to it sliding dropouts, bent seat tube, and 44mm head tube. Ping Sean (aka Smudge) if you want more information.

    It's a very-well-made-in-the-USA titanium frame of the best material by a guy that knows what he's doing. Expensive? Yes, but not out of line with other custom frames of this caliber. Worth it to me? Very much so.
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  121. #121
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    Good job!

    I know that I can't top the comments...

    ...this is a beautiful creation!

    Lots of luck and enjoyment will come your way...

    ...I'm sure!

  122. #122
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    Trails were wet today, so I played around the campus and took a lil bit of video. While watching it, I saw why I like my top tube so low:
    <object type="application/x-shockwave-flash" data="http://www.flickr.com/apps/video/stewart.swf?v=109786" classid="clsid<img src=" images="" smilies="" biggrin.gif"="" alt="" title="Big Grin" smilieid="3" class="inlineimg" border="0" height="360" width="640">
    <embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://www.flickr.com/apps/video/stewart.swf?v=109786" bgcolor="#000000" allowfullscreen="true" flashvars="intl_lang=en-us&photo_secret=984565507e&photo_id=7252543850&fli ckr_show_info_box=true" height="360" width="640"></object>
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  123. #123
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    That brings back some memories. Are those the steps by the engineering building? There's a fun little wall ride on a pyramid by the architecture building. I bet you could get crazy hit the peak with all the traction you have.


    sorry 'bout the non-fat content. I got all nostalgic thinking about all the street riding I used to to at College Park
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Vertigo Cycles Fatbike-cp-wall-ride.jpg  

    Sean Chaney :: Owner/Builder :: Vertigo Cycles

  124. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by smudge View Post
    That brings back some memories. Are those the steps by the engineering building? There's a fun little wall ride on a pyramid by the architecture building. I bet you could get crazy hit the peak with all the traction you have.


    sorry 'bout the non-fat content. I got all nostalgic thinking about all the street riding I used to to at College Park
    That's the joint. The stairs between the Engineering and Math buildings at U of Maryland for the first part, and the jump is by South Campus Dining Hall. Campus is a fun place to play around if the trails are soggy.

    I know the pyramid. I've never been good at wall rides, but what's the worst that can happen besides a hospital visit? When going sideways on walls (or attempting to), is it better to have smooth high pressure slicks like the Black Floyds, crazy knobby like the Nates, or right in between like the Husker Dus?
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  125. #125
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    Right, the dining hall. That little incline has the best transition at the bottom, no? I don't know about the tires. I don't think I ever changed the pressure in mine. I suppose if they're folding, it's too low
    Sean Chaney :: Owner/Builder :: Vertigo Cycles

  126. #126
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    Thought I'd update here on the rigid fork to keep my stuff together.

    So last week I got the Black Sheep Faith fork and put it on my bike on Friday. Saturday, wife and I go to the Rockburn Skills Park grand opening in Elkridge, Maryland to check it out.



    I was doing a bit of pump-tracking, jumping and rock hopping, and the fork felt good. Fork clamps stayed nice and tight through it all. The tires were pumped a little high and landings were harsher than what I was used to with the Lefty, so I kept dropping the pressure all day until I finally got a flat about 3 hours in. Thankfully it wasn't when I was landing; instead, it poofed while standing around talking to people.



    Sunday, we head to Fountainhead. BIG FUN because of all the air that you inevitably catch. Well, all that jumping around resulted in the fork loosening a few times, necessitating stopping to cinch everything up again. That was a little bit of a bummer.

    I stopped by the bike shop today to buy a compression plug and cap for the bottom of the steerer to help squeeze the assembly together better and hopefully stop the fork's self-loosening tendencies.

    With the close to 3lbs I lost off on the fork diet, it's hard to keep the front end down on the ground now!
    <object type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="640" height="360" data="https://www.flickr.com/apps/video/stewart.swf?v=109786" classid="clsid27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000"> <param name="flashvars" value="intl_lang=en-us&photo_secret=7471589581&photo_id=7339669578"></param> <param name="movie" value="https://www.flickr.com/apps/video/stewart.swf?v=109786"></param> <param name="bgcolor" value="#000000"></param> <param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="https://www.flickr.com/apps/video/stewart.swf?v=109786" bgcolor="#000000" allowfullscreen="true" flashvars="intl_lang=en-us&photo_secret=7471589581&photo_id=7339669578" height="360" width="640"></embed></object>
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  127. #127
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    So is the Faith fork specially designed for your bike?

  128. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluestatevirgin View Post
    So is the Faith fork specially designed for your bike?
    Yup.
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  129. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil View Post
    Thought I'd update here on the rigid fork to keep my stuff together.



    <object type="application/x-shockwave-flash" data="https://www.flickr.com/apps/video/stewart.swf?v=109786" classid="clsid<img src=" images="" smilies="" biggrin.gif"="" alt="" title="Big Grin" smilieid="3" class="inlineimg" border="0" height="360" width="640">



    <embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="https://www.flickr.com/apps/video/stewart.swf?v=109786" bgcolor="#000000" allowfullscreen="true" flashvars="intl_lang=en-us&photo_secret=7471589581&photo_id=7339669578" height="360" width="640"></object>
    Like it. That looks like a proper mountain bike at this point
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  130. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil View Post
    Yup.
    Well, the whole package really is a thing of beauty. Much prefer the faith to the Lefty as far as looks go. My favorite custom bike since my last favorite custom bike.

  131. #131
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    drevil, how does the faith fork compare to the jones truss?

    genuine question, i know the jones v black sheep thing always becomes a can of worms on these forums...

  132. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by octavius View Post
    drevil, how does the faith fork compare to the jones truss?

    genuine question, i know the jones v black sheep thing always becomes a can of worms on these forums...
    Welp, let me preface this by saying I've only had the Black Sheep Faith on for three rides, and I've had the Jones Truss for getting close to 4 years holding up the front of my SpaceFrame. I've never put the Truss on the Vertigo, or the Faith on the Jones.

    The Faith fork has an aluminum steerer tube, while the Jones has an Enve carbon fiber steerer tube. I haven't taken a caliper to measure the diameter of the tubes/fork legs of each fork, but the Faith is visibly smaller. I didn't weigh the Truss when I recently took it off the frame, but the Faith and uncut steerer weighs ~908 grams (I've left it uncut, btw).

    On ride 1 of the Faith (jump park, rockgarden, & pumptrack), it stayed tight. Ride 2 (lots of small jumps and dropoffs), it kept loosening. Ride 3 (urban, benches, stairs, and some singletrack), it stayed tight after I put on that bottom plug and cap. I hope that resolves it.

    The Jones Truss has gotten loose less than a half dozen times in 3.5 years of all kinds of riding.

    Comfort-wise, it's really hard to say. I have to ride the Faith more and I'd have to ride them back to back to be sure. Maybe someday, but I am borrowing the fat front wheel from the Truss to put on the Faith. Guess I gotta build another fatty front so I can rock them both at the same time...if I ever need to?

    Both were made in the U.S. (my Truss by Merlin, but nowadays it's made overseas) and both have flawless welds and finishes. The dropouts and IS brake mount of the Faith are thinner. It is harder to put the wheel into the Faith because the O.L.D. is not wide enough (like 5mm too short), so I have to pull the fork open a little to get it in.

    I think they both cost ~$1100.
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  133. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil View Post
    Welp, let me preface this by saying I've only had the Black Sheep Faith on for three rides, and I've had the Jones Truss for getting close to 4 years holding up the front of my SpaceFrame. I've never put the Truss on the Vertigo, or the Faith on the Jones.

    The Faith fork has an aluminum steerer tube, while the Jones has an Enve carbon fiber steerer tube. I haven't taken a caliper to measure the diameter of the tubes/fork legs of each fork, but the Faith is visibly smaller. I didn't weigh the Truss when I recently took it off the frame, but the Faith and uncut steerer weighs ~908 grams (I've left it uncut, btw).

    On ride 1 of the Faith (jump park, rockgarden, & pumptrack), it stayed tight. Ride 2 (lots of small jumps and dropoffs), it kept loosening. Ride 3 (urban, benches, stairs, and some singletrack), it stayed tight after I put on that bottom plug and cap. I hope that resolves it.

    The Jones Truss has gotten loose less than a half dozen times in 3.5 years of all kinds of riding.

    Comfort-wise, it's really hard to say. I have to ride the Faith more and I'd have to ride them back to back to be sure. Maybe someday, but I am borrowing the fat front wheel from the Truss to put on the Faith. Guess I gotta build another fatty front so I can rock them both at the same time...if I ever need to?

    Both were made in the U.S. (my Truss by Merlin, but nowadays it's made overseas) and both have flawless welds and finishes. The dropouts and IS brake mount of the Faith are thinner. It is harder to put the wheel into the Faith because the O.L.D. is not wide enough (like 5mm too short), so I have to pull the fork open a little to get it in.

    I think they both cost ~$1100.
    How do you press the crown race onto the steerer tube? (Assuming you use a normal headset)

  134. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmooveP View Post
    How do you press the crown race onto the steerer tube? (Assuming you use a normal headset)
    With these truss-style forks, there is no race to press on. The key thing to understand is that the steerer is free-floating, i.e., it can go as high up or down below the headtube as you want, as long as the two clamps of the fork and the stem have proper purchase of the steerer tube.

    Instead of a bottom race, imagine two top cups: one on the top, and one flipped upside down and pressed into the bottom of the head tube. Both cups use top compression caps (or if using King, the "Griplock assembly", then you have to tighten the bottom fork clamp, compress the assembly with the top stem cap, tighten the top clamp, then tighten the stem.

    To take apart, you loosen the bolts for the two fork clamps, then the stem, and just pull it all the way out. However, because the top headset caps have "wedge" tightening systems that get tighter as you compress them, pulling the steerer out is an exercise in itself

    Last edited by Drevil; 06-06-2012 at 06:34 PM. Reason: Added picture
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  135. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil View Post
    With these truss-style forks, there is no race to press on. The key thing to understand is that the steerer is free-floating, i.e., it can go as high up or down below the headtube as you want, as long as the two clamps of the fork and the stem have proper purchase of the steerer tube.

    Instead of a bottom race, imagine two top cups: one on the top, and one flipped upside down and pressed into the bottom of the head tube. Both cups use top compression caps (or if using King, the "Griplock assembly", then you have to tighten the bottom fork clamp, compress the assembly with the top stem cap, tighten the top clamp, then tighten the stem.

    To take apart, you loosen the bolts for the two fork clamps, then the stem, and just pull it all the way out. However, because the top headset caps have "wedge" tightening systems that get tighter as you compress them, pulling the steerer out is an exercise in itself
    Aha. Sounds like a clean solution. Does the presence of the clamps above and below cause any problems? Looks like you flipped your stem to the negative postion to compensate. Also, I'd guess that normal A-to-C measurements don't apply?

  136. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmooveP View Post
    Aha. Sounds like a clean solution. Does the presence of the clamps above and below cause any problems? Looks like you flipped your stem to the negative postion to compensate. Also, I'd guess that normal A-to-C measurements don't apply?
    The bars are in a position I'm comfortable with (slightly lower than my saddle), so no, it's not a problem.

    One of the cool things about this type of setup where there is no fixed position crown race is that you can change the A-C by moving headset spacers. The spacers are between the caps and the fork clamps, so moving spacers from the bottom to the top lowers the A-C and taking them from the top and putting them on the bottom increases A-C. Hopefully that makes sense? I'll see if I can find a pic or take one later.
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  137. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil View Post
    One of the cool things about this type of setup where there is no fixed position crown race is that you can change the A-C by moving headset spacers. The spacers are between the caps and the fork clamps, so moving spacers from the bottom to the top lowers the A-C and taking them from the top and putting them on the bottom increases A-C. Hopefully that makes sense? I'll see if I can find a pic or take one later.
    I totally get how that would work, as long as you order your fork with extra space between the clamps and your headset stack. I assume that's something you can specify?

  138. #138
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    For the Black Sheep, yes. For the Jones, I don't think so.
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  139. #139
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    In 29er mode, with Maxxis Ardent 2.4" tires, it weighs 24.36 lbs:



    The chainstay length in this mode and gearing is 423mm. I can't slam the wheel all the way forward because the seatstay bridge and seat tube limit it a little, but if I ever had the urge, I can probably go more forward with a 2.2" tire since the Ardents seem taller and wider than other 2.3"- 2.4" tires I've had.
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

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    Oooooh. Things are looking up now. I think you will like it like this a lot

    It's good to have options.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  141. #141
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    great stuff, ive only had experience on my truss. its clearly similar and i know from your posts - you have a jones.

    dont want to hijack the thread - your bike is amazing (for me with the lefty is totally sweet - i want a spin).

  142. #142
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    My Vertigo has been a boatload of fun since I got it a couple of months ago, but there is still one nagging problem: the bottom bracket creaks like a banshee when I am really mashing down on the pedals on uphills. The harder I push, the louder it groans.

    I have a call tag from Phil Wood, and I think they're going to up me to a quad bearing setup. I'm also getting a shorter arm cranks (currently 170mm) because I've gotten used to and like the 165mm length (which Jeff Jones turned me onto). I planned to get the new Middleburn 100mm-width crank, and I already have the Chris King 100mm BB in my possession, but the US distributor of Middleburn (MTBTandems.com) measured the Q of that crank, and it was slightly too narrow. Bummerific.

    I also have a 29er rear wheel built for this bike (Hope 170 and Stans Flow), but I'm unbuilding it and using the rim on another bike. I'm using the hub to build up a Speedway UMA 50mm rim which is slightly narrower than the Marge Lite (65mm) which should round out the cross section and be great for summer use -- which is my impression from others' experience on this board. Incidentally, it should also shave at least a 1/2 pound from the weight, which ain't a bad thing.

    I swapped the Jones Loop bar for a custom Seven bar, which is 720mm wide with 20deg sweep. When I first ordered the bike, I wanted Ti Groovy Luv Handles, but I procrastinated, and now the wait time is at least 3 months. Seven's wait time was a week.

    The new bar feels good so far. With the Jones I had a 90mm stem, but the Seven requires a 70mm to keep the center of the grips at the same position. I'm not sure if I feel a little squished at this point. Need to put in more saddle time and adjust if necessary.






    Overall, the bike is awesome, except for the infernal creak. I'll be sending in my bottom bracket in a couple of weeks after the races and events die down. Sucks because there isn't a cheap replacement I can use in the mean time, thus putting the fatty out of commission until it returns. BTW, I think there's only been two dirt rides on the other bikes since I got the Vertigo.
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  143. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil View Post





    16.5" chainstays with the current gear ratio, with a little room to go even shorter
    holy sht, you reading my mind?
    short chainsty + lefty is exactly what i want
    after riding a short stay 29er, i can never go back
    this much handle awesome

  144. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadester View Post
    Just as a note, you don't need to build Lefty into offset drilling - this is crosslaced 3x:

    The USChopper 100mm rim is available in silver (the one above was powdercoated)
    Rim Only 26 x 4 Silver - Cycles U.S. LLC/Choppers U.S.
    You do have to get a P321 36h hub, since the rims are 36h only. 65, 80, and 100mm width.
    Wadester,

    I'm ordering a lefty for my steel Fatback and will be building the wheel myself. I have a Weinmann DHL 100, 32h rim. In order to build it conventionally, I would have to drill holes. Not that big of a deal, but you have an alternative that I'd like to at least understand how you calculate spoke length.

    Thanks
    Steel Fatback

  145. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrkgstiff View Post
    Wadester,

    I'm ordering a lefty for my steel Fatback and will be building the wheel myself. I have a Weinmann DHL 100, 32h rim. In order to build it conventionally, I would have to drill holes. Not that big of a deal, but you have an alternative that I'd like to at least understand how you calculate spoke length.

    Thanks
    The tool to use is Freespoke

    This will let you put in offsets for each spoke hole line and for the hub individually. If you're crosslacing the spoke hole offsets go in as negatives - if you're just doing an offset lace along a single line, one offset positive the other negative. I don't recall pos/neg hub offset for the Lefty hub - but there is a nice graphic that let's you see exactly what you're asking for, and a simple block to input the value. Freespoke is very good for letting you play "what if" before you buy components.

    Notes: If it ain't working, click on "clear session". When selecting hubs and rims from the database, I have had to both "select" and "add to bench" to get the data into the calculator. I note that since I was using USC 100's which aren't in the database - I would select the Surly Clownshoe and then modify the numbers as needed. Also, use the full calculator to get the good features.

    Good Luck!
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  146. #146
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    Almost a year since I've had this thing, and today I changed it up. A couple of days ago, I picked up some 29" Surly Rabbit Hole rims, 120 TPI Knards, and anything else I needed to get this setup rolling. Stayed up until about 4 this morning building it all up and throwing it on the frame, then got up too early to spin it all out:


    Vertigo Fat Bike with 29+&quot; x 3&quot; tires by bundokbiker, on Flickr


    Twist by bundokbiker, on Flickr


    Berms by bundokbiker, on Flickr


    Seat Tube Proximity by bundokbiker, on Flickr


    Seatstay Brace by bundokbiker, on Flickr


    Room to go Back by bundokbiker, on Flickr
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  147. #147
    mtbr member
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    Drevil, your bike is my favorite bike on MTBR. I love it as fat, 29, truss, lefty. Color is perfect. Build is beautiful. It just seems to really work well. Did you figure out the BB creaking issue?
    Out of all the setups you've had, do you have a favorite or go to build?

  148. #148
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Schott's Avatar
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    Vertigo Cycles Fatbike

    Thaaaaaats a tight fit.....foresee issues?

  149. #149
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
    Reputation: Drevil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nakedbabytoes View Post
    Drevil, your bike is my favorite bike on MTBR. I love it as fat, 29, truss, lefty. Color is perfect. Build is beautiful. It just seems to really work well. Did you figure out the BB creaking issue?
    Out of all the setups you've had, do you have a favorite or go to build?
    Thanks! I did figure out the BB issue, I think. The Phil Wood Ti BB might just not be a good fit for my riding style, it being light, long, and flexy fighting against my jumpy chubster self. It's possibly bending/flexing a teensy bit in there, which tweaks the bearings at angles it wasn't meant to. Basically, the balls are crying for mercy It's been creak-free since I last put it back together around 6 months ago... until yesterday.

    I have plans to switch my wife's 2-piece Middleburn RS-8 cranks & King BB for my RS-7 3-piece to see if it fits. If it does, I'll keep it. My cranks are 165mm and hers are 170mm, and she said she wouldn't notice the difference. She doesn't jump around as much, so mine should be fine for her.
    Quote Originally Posted by Schott View Post
    Thaaaaaats a tight fit.....foresee issues?
    If I rode in mud or gravel, it probably would be. However, I knew that I'd be in a smoothish groomed park yesterday (Fountainhead in Northern VA), where there isn't much of either of those, so I didn't sweat it. I also posted a pic of the dropout to illustrate I did have some room to move the wheel back if I wanted to. I measured the chainstay length this morning because a couple of buds asked, and it's 427mm

    ADDED: Forgot to answer NBT's question of my fav setup. I haven't spent a lot of time in the 29er mode last summer since I figured I already have enough 29ers, so what was the point?

    The 29+ (RH rims and Knards) was cool, but I only put a few hours on it yesterday for the first time. The setup definitely threw me off though, leading me to almost crash a few times. I just have to get used to it.

    So that leaves me with the regular ol' fat bike setup, which is my favorite. A juicy Nate up front with the Truss fork, and the Husker Du rear. Slower? Yes. Do I care? 97% of the time, no.
    Last edited by Drevil; 03-25-2013 at 05:05 AM.
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  150. #150
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dRjOn's Avatar
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    RAD ricky!....
    For a rock steady Gas Tank bag > the DeWidget

    bit.ly/BuyDeWidget

    https://www.instagram.com/drj0n_bagworks/

  151. #151
    WAWE
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    Nice!!

    Quote Originally Posted by drevil View Post






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