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  1. #1
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    Ultimate "Dune Buggy" Set-Up

    Finally got around to trying a set of 2XL's on the Blackborow... trimmed for sand of course. Had to run super low pressure's to get them to "wrinkle"... makes me wonder if my gauge is off because it was reading stuff like 1psi in the front and less than 2psi in the rear. Noticable increase in soft sand floatation and they were easy to pedal and clipped along pretty good (in soft, loose sand). They were a little slower on the hard, wet sand than my trimmed BFL's- little more footprint touching and the forward traction lugs I left on the rear are sticking into the sand quite a ways- much further than the BFL- and that causes friction on the way in and friction and suction on the way out (I know, I just said that...) which causes big drag on wet sand. Reluctant to trim anymore though as they were so awesome in the dry sand... They do need a wider rim though to optimize this tire fore floatation use. As it is here on Clown Shoes, the profile is allot like a Endo on a Large Marge... and putting that Endo on a hunddie was a big improvement floatation wise. Do I NEED more floatation? Not really- I'm having fun with this new stuff... especially in light of what we've experienced before. But that doesn't mean I'm not still curious about pushing things a little further. With "dune buggy's", there's always room to tinker, customize & etc...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Ultimate "Dune Buggy" Set-Up-s2300016-copy.jpg  


  2. #2
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    Here is the "signature" the rear tire is leaving in the sand... front tire is less as it doesn't have the forward traction lugs- just the side lugs for cornering...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Ultimate "Dune Buggy" Set-Up-s2300027-copy.jpg  


  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by ward View Post
    Here is the "signature" the rear tire is leaving in the sand... front tire is less as it doesn't have the forward traction lugs- just the side lugs for cornering...
    That looks good. I wonder how it would go in snow.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    That looks good. I wonder how it would go in snow.
    Not very good w/ these "tread mod's"... these are pretty much "sand only" (or pea gravel, etc.). The tread these "new" 2xl's come with is super tall and would be allot of work to pedal in sand... kind of the opposite in snow... and the tread design that "arrived" doesn't look at all like the stock "Snowshoe" tread in the catalog pic's I've seen... much "deeper" and more aggressive... good for snow, not so good for long sand rides...

  5. #5
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    Looks awesome for the beach. Looks like a super worn, super fat endo on steroids.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ward View Post
    Not very good w/ these "tread mod's"... these are pretty much "sand only" (or pea gravel, etc.). The tread these "new" 2xl's come with is super tall and would be allot of work to pedal in sand... kind of the opposite in snow... and the tread design that "arrived" doesn't look at all like the stock "Snowshoe" tread in the catalog pic's I've seen... much "deeper" and more aggressive... good for snow, not so good for long sand rides...
    I was wondering because I was surprised by how well my Black Floyds coped with slick mud when at very low pressure. It didn't take much to make them spin but that they actually worked at all was what got my curiosity aroused.

    I suspect it was because the tyre cups on a soft surface when the pressure is really low, so that to spin you have to shear the cup of snow/mud and the force required to do that is a bit higher than that required for just tyre slip. I could be totally wrong of course.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    I was wondering because I was surprised by how well my Black Floyds coped with slick mud when at very low pressure. It didn't take much to make them spin but that they actually worked at all was what got my curiosity aroused.

    I suspect it was because the tyre cups on a soft surface when the pressure is really low, so that to spin you have to shear the cup of snow/mud and the force required to do that is a bit higher than that required for just tyre slip. I could be totally wrong of course.
    Yeah, there's also that point on some surfaces where aggressive tread acts like "saw teeth" and "saws" into the surface- actually "breaking" your floatation... but if the surface is so slippery that the tire spins, your not moving forward anyway. Sand is pretty grippy so we get away w/ less tread and benefit from it, and in the dry loose sections, floatation becomes the priority over forward traction... snow needs both (IMO of course). Mud's a whole 'nother story... probably pick up less mud w/ less tread... and I see what your saying- kind of like the plam of your hand supporting you...

  8. #8
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    Sorry for reviving an older thread. Riding yesterday as the dry season sets in our tracks are getting sandy.
    Riding with a mate yesterday in dry loose sand churned up by vehicles, I'm on 4.0 Mammoths and he's on 4.7 Bulldozers.
    Despite the Bulldozers having a bigger footprint, I seemed to have an easier time of it and we got to wondering if all the beefy tread on the centre of the Bulldozers was not helping.
    By comparison the Mammoth has very low centre knobs and quite big knobs on the edge of the tires. More akin to the OPs trimmed dune buggy set up.
    Is it generally considered less tread is more effective in loose sand?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by MozFat View Post
    Sorry for reviving an older thread. Riding yesterday as the dry season sets in our tracks are getting sandy.
    Riding with a mate yesterday in dry loose sand churned up by vehicles, I'm on 4.0 Mammoths and he's on 4.7 Bulldozers.
    Despite the Bulldozers having a bigger footprint, I seemed to have an easier time of it and we got to wondering if all the beefy tread on the centre of the Bulldozers was not helping.
    By comparison the Mammoth has very low centre knobs and quite big knobs on the edge of the tires. More akin to the OPs trimmed dune buggy set up.
    Is it generally considered less tread is more effective in loose sand?
    The deep treads tend to displace sand and make you loose floatation, thus making it harder to ride. Smoother treads like the Big Fat Larry work very well for sand since they don't tend to displace sand as they squish along. Semi slick for sand and deep paddle like treads for snow.
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  10. #10
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    Cheers thanks that seems to confirm our experience

  11. #11
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    Yup! And the air pressure in the low range for either sand or snow. The need to carry a faat pump makes it possible to ride to and from places where low tires ride best. The Lezyne micro floor drive XL makes a pump up after a sand ride so many fewer pumps to get back to pressure for the ride home.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by BansheeRune View Post
    Yup! And the air pressure in the low range for either sand or snow. The need to carry a faat pump makes it possible to ride to and from places where low tires ride best. The Lezyne micro floor drive XL makes a pump up after a sand ride so many fewer pumps to get back to pressure for the ride home.
    Thanks Banshee. Slowly working it out through trial and error. The big pump might be the answer. Tire pressure always seems to be a comprise, because no one wants to do trailside tire inflation with a little pump and tend to ride over inflated if it's generally rideable

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by MozFat View Post
    Thanks Banshee. Slowly working it out through trial and error. The big pump might be the answer. Tire pressure always seems to be a comprise, because no one wants to do trailside tire inflation with a little pump and tend to ride over inflated if it's generally rideable
    So true... It isn't proper Jeepin if ya don't air down and up from time to time. And ya, some rides you can find a soft pressure that isn't so soft that general riding is overly impacted by it. I find it to be part of the adventure to let air out for the loose ground and pump up for the rocky stuff.

    Ultimate "Dune Buggy" Set-Up-img_0575.jpg
    The pump holder fabricated in short order.

    Ultimate "Dune Buggy" Set-Up-img_0743.jpg
    Places like this with the arroyos make for riding soft and after the arroyo a pump up is in order...
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  14. #14
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    Cheers Banshee, will be sticking with my Mammoths for now, they seem to get the job done. Pretty durable and roll OK for mixed dry conditions.
    I don't think I want a bigger tire, after trying the Bulldozers. Acknowledging that a JJ would be a different story.
    Had been thinking about Fast Track Fat or Rougarous. Not too keen on trial and error at the cost of fat tires.
    Snows not an issue, being in Africa. Beach rides tend to be on the firm wet sand where 4.0 even a bit firm is OK.
    Will check out the big pump, when next I get near a shop.

  15. #15
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    I tried a pair of 4.0's and it wasn't long before I was changing back to the 4.8's. I really enjoy the ride of the larger volume 4.8's offer.
    As for rolling, I hafta say, the JJ's roll extremely well and sand performance is excellent.
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