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  1. #1
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    Twenty2 Cycles is here to answer questions, comments, etc.

    So fire away. We are happy to be a part of the fat bike community and are enjoying a fantastic winter in Colorado.

    Here's a sweet Bully at Likin Bikin in New Hampshire https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater

  2. #2
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    I'll fire away. I'd like to know the weights of your frames. Not because I'm a weight-weenie but I've always been curious just how much weight can be saved using different materials. So, can you tell me the weights of a size large Bully frame (170mm) in your three different materials (ti, steel and aluminum) please?

  3. #3
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    Hey, Welcome to the board!
    I've had my Ti Bully for a little over 2 years, and have been riding the hell out of it year round. Awesome bike, and a great choice for anyone looking for a finely crafted, US made frame. Customer service has always been excellent.

  4. #4
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    Can I receive a frame donation from you? In return I will show you what my chamois see every time I ride.

    If you say no you hate baby whales.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    Can I receive a frame donation from you? In return I will show you what my chamois see every time I ride.

    If you say no you hate baby whales.
    I'll give you my frame if you promise to never show me that.

  6. #6
    aka bOb
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    Awesome looking bikes!!
    Last edited by bdundee; 03-14-2014 at 07:20 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by eastman115 View Post
    I'll fire away. I'd like to know the weights of your frames. Not because I'm a weight-weenie but I've always been curious just how much weight can be saved using different materials. So, can you tell me the weights of a size large Bully frame (170mm) in your three different materials (ti, steel and aluminum) please?
    Off the top of my head, no, I don't have those weights. I will get them shortly, though.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmooveP View Post
    Hey, Welcome to the board!
    I've had my Ti Bully for a little over 2 years, and have been riding the hell out of it year round. Awesome bike, and a great choice for anyone looking for a finely crafted, US made frame. Customer service has always been excellent.
    Thank you!

  9. #9
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    my super-bully......

    riding the hell out of my super bully as well, 190 rear and crisp geometry. the guys, Todd to be exact, at Twenty2 Cycles are amazing to work with and produce exceptional products. welcome! oh and my bully not only rocks in the snow but in the dirt as well.....thanks guys, great work.Twenty2 Cycles is here to answer questions, comments, etc.-bully-1.jpg
    "Live dangerously and you live right."
    Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

  10. #10
    N8R
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    The Bully with the curved top tube is interesting. Have you guys tried making a frame with a down tube curving the opposite way (upwards) so it symmetrically opposes the top tube? That would be interesting to see. I bet it would look pretty cool.

  11. #11
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    Well sorry to rain on the party guys... but I have a mate here in Adelaide, Australia hasn't had such a positive experience with his full build Rohloff Bully.

    Not my place to comment any more as its not my bike but i'll let him know about the thread as he's a active member here.
    Santa Cruz Hightower LT Evil Following Trek 9.9 Superfly SL IndyFab Deluxe 29 Pivot Vault CX Cervelo R3 Disc

  12. #12
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    Yep, that would be me... Sadly, my experience with Twenty2 cycles has been anything but smooth... I am surprised to hear of your excellent customer service experience SmooveP, as mine has been shit... For an $8000 bike I expected more..
    I am sure that Twenty2 will have a different story but at the end of the day, it appears the customer is not always right!!!

    In their defence, as a frame builder, they do an excellent product.. Just don't buy a complete bike from them!!
    Last edited by ads-bully; 02-26-2014 at 07:09 PM.

  13. #13
    Laramie, Wyoming
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    I don't live very far from Twenty2 Cycles and I've considered purchasing one of their bikes. ads-bully, I'd like to hear more about your experience.

    I realize there are always two sides, but companies need to know that a bad reputation in today's world can hurt business and often times it's just a little something that makes problems better.

  14. #14
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    Do you have an engineering degree? What about awesome game changing low profile tires and rims with symmetrical holes?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckfiddious View Post
    Do you have an engineering degree? What about awesome game changing low profile tires and rims with symmetrical holes?
    Great question, buck. We were all wondering this ourselves.
    I like turtles

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmooveP View Post
    I'll give you my frame if you promise to never show me that.
    Hand it over!!



    I would like the scoop on what exactly the builder did to piss off the customer.

  17. #17
    bigger than you.
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    I didn't see this coming...

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twenty2 Cycles View Post
    Off the top of my head, no, I don't have those weights. I will get them shortly, though.
    The large aluminum Bully is 3.6lbs, a Rohloff Ti is 4.2lbs. We don't have a steel frame at the moment.
    twenty2cycles.com

  19. #19
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    Does six inches of tubing weigh 200 grams?
    Lucky neighbor of Maryland's Patapsco Valley State Park, 39.23,-76.76 Flickr

  20. #20
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    maybe? depends? who's asking?

  21. #21
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    I'll chime in once and only once here to tell the other side to ads bully. Not as an argument but the full story and everyone will have an opinion but I won't go further.

    On a side note..We are excited to have few new guys at Twenty2, as posting above and in the future as Twenty2. They are absolutely amazing and are going to be here to help provide the world with the best handcrafted frames and top shelf service. They come from a biking background that is unmatched (from design to shop) and have probably sold and built more fatbikes than 99% of the shops in the US. Scott, Randy, Darin, Jesse and Aaron.

    Back on track. When I do post its usually long....

    I have personally designed every frame and worked with every custom frame client since we founded 22. I remember every bike....literally 100's of customers, and I love working with each and every person from roadies to fatbikers. Adam was no different. I had such a good time talking to him that I gave him his custom design for free, big australian guy 6'4....only bike I have ever done the custom for free. I also discounted his build kit by 450 to help fit his price point...btw, I'm not setting precedent for deals here.ha. Cost was 7300 ish before shipping.
    He received his bike and was really excited about the finish and ride. After a few rides he realized he was so strong that the raceface crank arm was actually flexing on climbs and clearance to the stay was limited. I had never heard of a crankarm flexing so much, if at all, but lets figure out a solution. He was initially pissed at me. After talking about it, we decided together that he could add a spacer to the drive side(use to be really common), switch to the raceface dh bb or we would order him a newer crankset with wider arm spacing at our cost. He switched to the dh bb (I will say he wasn't happy to need to switch initially) and the bike was performing perfectly. 3 months later he emailed me a pic and said

    "Thought I would send through a pic of a recent ride. Bike is going very well, with no issues.. Has been a godsend for my back and knees.
    Enjoy..
    Adam"
    Awesome pic from the beach.
    Fast forward 6 months from purchase. Adam contacted me and was "pissed" again. He had a squeak from somewhere and he had his mechanic take the bike apart completely. His list of complaints..I still remember because this is our only - not a lot of extra grease in headtube and bb?, bonding of seat clamp (adam installed seatpost/clamp), some water in bb?? (usually enters from seat post slot while washing), marred bolt on crankset(if we did it, yes it would be shitty torquing, but first mention at the 6 month point after bb had been switched I have no way to tell), binding of bolts on front chainring and his shop said they would have to drill them out if they wanted to take the sprocket off- I have no idea...sand ect. We talk through it and he got the bike back together. end of his email follow up back to me...

    I also hope you have a great Xmas and New Year.... FYI, my Fatbike is the only bike I ride these days, and I love it...

    Cheers
    Adam

    Another few weeks later Adam has been riding and is "pissed" again. I was out of town for a couple weeks and when I got back another Twenty2 member told me the story that he was breaking spokes and nipples on the offset wheel and there were 2 threads showing below the nipples at several locations. He sent a pic. The spokes and nipples were dt swiss- red al nipples. We told him brass would be much better by the beach and he could send the wheel to us (but shipping is expensive) or get it repaired locally and I could authorize a $100 credit sent by paypal no questions asked....I agree its a total pain for him even though its 6months+ after purchase and bike has been rebuilt by his shop. **The original rohloff rolling darryl offset wheel was custom built by the rohloff distributor, NOT by 22. FYI>>It probably had about 2months of total riding as Adam leaves for work for periods of time. As I understood from Ryan (22) he got a wheelbuild estimate and it was really expensive..near $300. Ryan told him that was a really high price and to maybe check some other shops and he was going off to work for a few weeks. Ryan was waiting to hear if he got a different estimate and next I hear he sent an email that he paid his shop the $300 and was very upset that we didn't get back to him and he doesn't ever want anything from us at all and was a very pissed customer. Basically from what I was told, he said we suck and he would tell everyone. We'll there it all is. Yes it is unfortunate that the bb had to be switched for him and that the rear wheel nipples started to crack 6 months in. I'm sad we weren't able to reach a wheel solution with the way it was left in the end.

    Thanks for adding the positive that I can design/build a hell of a frame, Adam

    Do big brands know every customer and the full story behind each design? nope. I know all the details because I love designing bikes for people like you all, even the special big guy that gets really angry with me.

    I want every bike to perform perfectly and hope that Adam doesn't hate me forever, because in the end he has an amazing bike that he loves to ride and I really like seeing his pics and hearing the stories from down under.
    Cheers,
    todd

  22. #22
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    Hi there Todd, thanks for chiming in... As you can see, I had not really had my side of the story put forward other than I thought your customer service sucked so I will also provide a reply to this so that all have a decent picture.. As they say, there is 3 side to every story (yours, mine and the truth).
    Some of you comments are factually correct and I do not dispute them, however some are far from accurate.

    To put it into some perspective we should go way back to my initial queries regarding a build. I acknowledge that your enthusiasm for the build was initially very positive and you did go out of your way to answer my questions. Yes, you did provide me a custom build at a discount and I very much appreciated it.. However, after my deposit the communications dried up considerably to a point that I had to call you by phone (remembering that this is a $7k + bike).
    After initially being told a build would take 6-8 weeks to make it's way to me I proceeded to wait 5 month for this bike. Granted, you gave me the option after about 4 months to cancel the build, but you know what, I was so excited about getting this bike that I put my own reservations aside and took it in good faith that you were going to provide me with a superior product. This has not been the case.

    Your reference regarding my super human strength flexing the crank arm is just silly really.This issue was noted on ride #1, not after a few rides. If you look around mtbr, there is a thread on this, and the general consensus from other, more experienced riders is that this would be highly unlikely. I at no point said that I felt that I was flexing the crank arm. Truth be told, I believed that you had welded the BB shell too far to one side as this does not seem to be an issue for other Bully riders (however, I am no frame builder so I leave this to your experience?).

    Regarding lack of prep, yes, this has been the feedback I have received by my mechanic after I had to replace the BB (additional cost to me for something that should not really have been an issue with a custom built frame). I only had to replace the bb to a DH version because the one supplied was already using 2 spacers on the one side and a 3rd left very little thread in the shell. I should also point out at this point that at no point was I offered a replacement crank at your cost (I would have jumped at that to ensure I did not have any ongoing issues with my BB). In fact, your response was;

    1.) add spacers to the drive side spindle inside the crank arm. If necessary you can remove the non drive bb spacer or put a 1mm one to free up more space on the drive side spindle
    2.) have the bike shop face the non drive bb cup down to gain spacer space on the spindle on the drive side.
    3.) you can machine the arm (sand off the inside surface of the crank arm at the point that the arm is contacting.) A dremel works really fast...but it will be silver in that point.
    4.) Surly OD cranksets have a wider Q factor

    Taking into account that this was a brand new build, I feel that I have the right to be a bit "pissed" as you put it at this point. Do you, or any other custom builder believe that it is acceptable to grind the crank down on a brand new bike to fix an issue ????
    The other issues regarding the marred crank bolt I noticed the very day I pulled the bike out of the box, but due to my excitement I chose to overlook it. It has only come up now after a number of issues. If it was the only one, I probably would not have bothered.

    The final straw! The $2000+ rohloff wheel build. Here is where you really need to check your facts Todd.
    1. The hub is built into a Marge Lite, not a Daryll
    2. The quote I provided to you was USD 195.. Not close to $300
    3. All spokes were 2-3mm short. Upon the rebuild, there were 17 cracked/split nipples.
    4. This bike has been ridden less than 1000 miles in the 6 months I have had it so it hardly used.

    As my flash custom built FAT bike was unrideable at this point, the need to get a quick resolution to this matter was imperative. Again, your company obviously feels that it is acceptable to ignore a customers email for 9 days, and then only respond once that customer is so "pissed off" they tell you to stick you $100 credit! This is why I consider your customer service as crap and I will tell those that ask.

    I don't personally hate you Todd. I dislike your customer service. These issues could have easily been dealt with more prompt communications and better consideration of customers that choose to spend $8000 plus on a purchase of a lifetime. The fact that you gave me a good price on the build relative to getting it here in Australia is irrelevant and does not diminish the fact that I bought a product, and that product had issues.

    I have always said that your frame is excellent (despite the bb issue), and yes, my back and knees thank you for it. However, if you are going to supply a complete build, you need to take more ownership of the build or increase your quality control.

    Cheers

  23. #23
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    Having had a custom bike built, I gotta say, you might be expecting a bit too much. There's no such thing as getting everything perfect. Any bike, from a $250 wallgoose to a $15k moots is a study in compromises. And components are components. Buy a $7500 bike off the rack and you'll end up swapping the cranks because... something.

    Timelines getting blown on customs, well, that's just a thing that happens. I'm not saying it's right, I'm not saying it's not annoying. My custom was supposed to be delivered in september. I got it in January. If you want a guaranteed delivery time, stick with off-the-rack stuff. (And even that ends up getting delayed).

    And as for wheels, you get alloy nipples, you get broken nipples. Alloy nipples are garbage. They're pretty, they come in fancy colors and they're light. And as long as you just sit around and weigh your bike instead of riding it, you're fine. But for actual functional wheels, they're junk.

    YOu really sound like your expectations were way out of whack, that custom=magic. It doesn't. Custom is still a bike and bikes, especially weird bikes with weird parts, are always a work in progress.

  24. #24
    Laramie, Wyoming
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    I disagree buckfiddious.
    I would expect that a custom bike from Twenty2 would NOT be a "work in progress".
    Timelines shouldn't be months off, not for building a bike.
    A company should attempt to respond to emails daily.
    Wheels, they are only as good as the person building them. Alloy nipples require a good wheel builder and the correct spoke length.

    On the other side of the coin, life isn't perfect. It isn't even possible to buy perfection.

    I installed a new carbon crank on my new Borealis just yesterday. It required a spacer on the drive side and two spacers on the non-drive side. The cranks only came with two. I spent some time manufacturing a third carbon spacer. Guess what, this is bike with a value more than the Twenty2 bike in question. And, I'm still waiting on my carbon wheels that I ordered with the bike and paid for. What would make the wait better? Communication! I wish Borealis would be honest about what is going on with the wheels and send out weekly updates to those with interest. It would make the wait much better. I would love to hear that the shipment was just loaded on the ship.

    drtoro(Todd), prompt communication and lots of it will help considerably. I've been considering making an appointment and riding down to Twenty2 to order a bike. I'm going to postpone that for a while.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    I disagree buckfiddious.
    I would expect that a custom bike from Twenty2 would NOT be a "work in progress".
    Timelines shouldn't be months off, not for building a bike.
    A company should attempt to respond to emails daily.
    Wheels, they are only as good as the person building them. Alloy nipples require a good wheel builder and the correct spoke length.

    On the other side of the coin, life isn't perfect. It isn't even possible to buy perfection.

    I installed a new carbon crank on my new Borealis just yesterday. It required a spacer on the drive side and two spacers on the non-drive side. The cranks only came with two. I spent some time manufacturing a third carbon spacer. Guess what, this is bike with a value more than the Twenty2 bike in question. And, I'm still waiting on my carbon wheels that I ordered with the bike and paid for. What would make the wait better? Communication! I wish Borealis would be honest about what is going on with the wheels and send out weekly updates to those with interest. It would make the wait much better. I would love to hear that the shipment was just loaded on the ship.

    drtoro(Todd), prompt communication and lots of it will help considerably. I've been considering making an appointment and riding down to Twenty2 to order a bike. I'm going to postpone that for a while.
    Totally agree. As a Twenty2 fan, it's painful to hear about experiences like Ad's. I own a custom woodworking business, and I deal with this stuff constantly. If you're positioning yourself in the high end of the market, there absolutely IS a higher expectation for initial quality and responsiveness. If you've been in business for a year or more, you should have a handle on your scheduling. If you're selling a complete package, you're responsible for your suppliers and the parts they produce unless the client directs you to use something out of the ordinary.

    Like I said, my experience with Twenty2 was awesome. Ben kept me in the loop every step of the way and responded to emails and phone calls in minutes or hours, not days. I got my bike, which was made to order, but not custom, in 3 weeks from the time I ordered it.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmooveP View Post
    Totally agree. As a Twenty2 fan, it's painful to hear about experiences like Ad's. I own a custom woodworking business, and I deal with this stuff constantly. If you're positioning yourself in the high end of the market, there absolutely IS a higher expectation for initial quality and responsiveness. If you've been in business for a year or more, you should have a handle on your scheduling. If you're selling a complete package, you're responsible for your suppliers and the parts they produce unless the client directs you to use something out of the ordinary.

    Like I said, my experience with Twenty2 was awesome. Ben kept me in the loop every step of the way and responded to emails and phone calls in minutes or hours, not days. I got my bike, which was made to order, but not custom, in 3 weeks from the time I ordered it.
    I guess we just have different experiences- I've never met anyone who ordered a custom who hit their initial target date. Everyone I talked to was of the opinion that 3 months late is pretty typical. As I said, I'm not excusing it, I'm not saying it's OK, but it is pretty typical.

    And I stand by the idea that a custom bike is a study in compromises just like any other bike.

    Dealing with a custom builder is just like dealing with anyone else- if you start every conversation with "I'm pretty pissed", chances are you are going to get bad service.

    Here's the other thing- the custom builder most people need is not the custom builder most people go with. The one they need is the one that says "No, that's not going to work." But no one goes with that builder, they go with the one that says "OK, that doesn't seem like a great idea but if that's what you really want..."

    My builder couldn't talk me out of horizontal drops for my custom, a road bike designed for wide tires and fenders. Here's the problem- I should have listened, because removing a rear wheel on a bike with fenders and horizontal drops means having to deflate the tire so you can slide the wheel far enough forward. Which is mostly a pain in the ass when you get a flat. Because the tire has to be inflated after it goes back on the bike. But I knew better, and horizontal drops are more appropriate, etc.

    When you order something weird, and most customs tend to be weird (otherwise you'd just get an off-the-shelf bike) there will be issues that pop up as you use that bike.

    But there is nothing more disheartening than a custom that doesn't live up to your expectation, and it's also the job of the builder to keep those expectations in check.

  27. #27
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    Guys, a top end builder like twenty2cycles or any other similar builder bases his business on the whole bike buying experience. Its that time when you know what you want and are paying a premium for the experience and the exact build you want. You talk to the builder and between you's both you come up with a plan to build your dream bike.

    To say that he has set his dreams and expectations too high is nonsense... every aspect of a full build custom bike should be a positive experience, or at least turned positive when the few discrepancies are found, be that on the first ride or small issues that have surfaced 2 months down the road.

    Or we might as well burst the dream bubble and go buy Giants, Specialized and Kona's straight off the peg for half the price.
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  28. #28
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    I'm pretty sure that both parties are good people (even if Ads-Bully is a friend of Ozzy's ). It would be nice if they could work things out between themselves without every doofus (including me) on the internet weighing in.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmooveP View Post
    I'm pretty sure that both parties are good people (even if Ads-Bully is a friend of Ozzy's ). It would be nice if they could work things out between themselves without every doofus (including me) on the internet weighing in.
    Your right there Smoove... And that is why I also will have no more to say about this.. My post was to highlight a lack of customer service (in my case) that could have easily dealt with my issues.. I say again that Twenty2 build a great frame, and you should not be put off by that..

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmooveP View Post
    I'm pretty sure that both parties are good people (even if Ads-Bully is a friend of Ozzy's )
    Oi ! I resemble that remark
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckfiddious View Post
    I guess we just have different experiences- I've never met anyone who ordered a custom who hit their initial target date. Everyone I talked to was of the opinion that 3 months late is pretty typical. As I said, I'm not excusing it, I'm not saying it's OK, but it is pretty typical.

    And I stand by the idea that a custom bike is a study in compromises just like any other bike.
    +1 - if you follow the many custom bike builds on MTBR the problems and the failed expectations are fairly common. The Ultimate Dream bikes that are sold within a year are not as uncommon as you'd think for a $8K+ bike.

    BQ had a good article on custom bikes and the upshot was if you really want a great custom bike you need to commission a prototype that isn't finished perfectly. You ride it and give the builder feedback and they build you a final product.

    Of course few people want to spend the extra $$ to go that route.

    That's one of the reasons I have resisted the temptation to go fully custom.

    I bought one semi-custom bike [production bike with some tweaks] and found out that we pushed the limits of frame size and tubing thickness too far to the light side. I sold that bike after a few years at a significant loss and I may well get a 2nd bike from those folks and this one will be dialled based on my previous experiences.

    One of the benefits of a production bike is that you can gauge what it will be like from riding a demo or from other reviews of the same product.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  32. #32
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    As Todd mentioned in his post, there are some new people at Twenty2 (including me) and we are looking forward to developing and growing the brand and our bikes. Of course, we take great pride in our work and do our best to make the best product we can. That being said, no company can achieve true perfection no matter how hard we try.

    We appreciate the support and can take our lumps as well. That's part of being in the community, and more than anything else, we want to be a part of the world of cycling. Everyone at Twenty2 (like most good bicycle companies) is a rider, and got involved for the love of the bicycle. So, when issues come up we will of course do our best to solve them, and in the mean time, we will continue to dedicate ourselves to producing bikes that we are proud of calling our own.

    Please feel free to let us know what you think, like, hate, or are curious about. That's why we are here: to be part of a group of people who have a passion about bikes. We like hearing the feedback, it helps us grow, teaches us, and can open new ideas. Communities offer this, and we want to be more than a bike company: we are cyclists above all else.
    Last edited by Twenty2 Cycles; 02-28-2014 at 05:40 AM.
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  33. #33
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    I thought I'd chime in here with my experience with Twenty2 Cycles. I'm a huge fan of fat bikes and already own a suped up Ops Pugs which I ride everywhere. I never really gave much thought to a custom fat-bike until I saw their Bully in a Mountain Flyer magazine around spring of 2013 and thought "man that is a sweet handbuilt bike". My wife and I were already planning a trip to Colorado that summer for a bike-cation so I began shooting Ryan at Twenty2 emails from New York expressing interest in checking one out. Ryan was very good at responding and answered question after question.

    Fast forward to August 2013. We visited Colorado and the timing didn't work out for us to visit Twenty2 in Vail so we went to a bike shop in Glenwood Springs, CO that sells them along with many others called The Gear Exchange where I met Randy. Randy had one Bully frame hanging on the wall. Seeing it in person and holding it was really cool but i wanted to get a feel of the geometry and handling. I demoed some other great bikes like REEB but I was still stuck on a Twenty2. Randy agreed to me us at a local brewery that night and bring a friends already built up Bully for me to ride. Sure enough 10pm rolled around and Randy rolled up on a built up Bully. No questions asked he let someone he's only met one time take the bike for a night ride around Glenwood Springs. I loved every moment of it! When I pulled back up to the brewery I told my wife "you have to ride this"! The fit, build, paint and handling was so spot on I tried buying the bike that already belonged to his friend lol. The rest of our vacation all I could think about was "I have to have one".

    2 weeks after returning to NY I continued to stay in touch with Randy and Ryan and decided to go for it. I worked exclusively with Randy once we got the ball rolling. I basically told him I wanted a bike that was sexy but low key and pretty much left the paint scheme and the build up to The Gear Exchange and Twenty2.

    I knew this was going to take time even though I wanted it right then. But I also knew if I wanted a bike that nobody else in the world has due to the build and paint I would have to wait. Sure you may be given a timeline on anticipated completion but these are estimates in a perfect world. My frame alone had to go from Twenty2 to Spectrum Powderworks back to Twenty2 after paint for head-badge and then to Glenwood Springs for final build. The frame travelled 100s of mies just for this process! Then you have issues with the availability of parts. Fat-bikes are growing in popularity so quickly the demand for cool, innovative parts takes its toll. So all in all the timeline was off a tad but the communication was there.

    Here's a break down of things Twenty2 and The Gear Exchange did:
    1) Upgraded my bike to some higher end parts at no cost to me because of availability issues on other parts.
    2) Bike was held up at paint for a while so they paid the difference for an even more custom paint job.
    3) They didn't make Fed Ex the day they thought to ship the finished bike to me so they picked up the shipping cost.

    My bike arrived and I love it! No one in these parts has a Twenty2 that I'm aware of so it's the bike with all the people standing around at cycling events. After I let my wife ride mine one time she was on the phone with Randy getting her own custom Ti Bully.

    I won't get into specifics but for a company we only communicated with via email (Twenty2) and a guy we only met once (Randy) at The Gear Exchange we've had no problem giving them $00,000 for some hand-built in Colorado beautiful bikes.

    My only gripe if you can call it one is put an online store on the website so I can order some Twenty2 Cycles swag to wear while riding and drinking a beer.

    Cheers from NY
    Shawne

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ads-bully View Post
    ...customers that choose to spend $8000 plus on a purchase of a lifetime....
    He has the $$ to travel from Oz to Colorado and order an $8000 bike. Yet somehow we're to believe that he's Charlie of Willie Wonka fame, just a poor boy buying a bike of a lifetime.

    Now why didn't he just use a local OZ builder? There's more than a few, I'm sure one of these guys would be able to build what he wants...

    Australian Custom Bicycle Show

    ...maybe there's a reason why he doesn't go to a local builder....

    I worked at a high end custom frame builder (road/track/touring) starting as a 15 year old freshman in high school. We built bikes for all sorts of racers and riders including the 1984 Olympic USA men's team. Every so often a customer like this came along and made everyone's working day a living hell. By 21 I'd had enough and went to engineering school.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by pursuiter View Post
    He has the $$ to travel from Oz to Colorado and order an $8000 bike. Yet somehow we're to believe that he's Charlie of Willie Wonka fame, just a poor boy buying a bike of a lifetime.

    Now why didn't he just use a local OZ builder? There's more than a few, I'm sure one of these guys would be able to build what he wants...

    Australian Custom Bicycle Show

    ...maybe there's a reason why he doesn't go to a local builder....

    I worked at a high end custom frame builder (road/track/touring) starting as a 15 year old freshman in high school. We built bikes for all sorts of racers and riders including the 1984 Olympic USA men's team. Every so often a customer like this came along and made everyone's working day a living hell. By 21 I'd had enough and went to engineering school.
    Wait...what?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by pursuiter View Post
    He has the $$ to travel from Oz to Colorado and order an $8000 bike. Yet somehow we're to believe that he's Charlie of Willie Wonka fame, just a poor boy buying a bike of a lifetime.

    Now why didn't he just use a local OZ builder? There's more than a few, I'm sure one of these guys would be able to build what he wants...

    Australian Custom Bicycle Show

    ...maybe there's a reason why he doesn't go to a local builder....

    I worked at a high end custom frame builder (road/track/touring) starting as a 15 year old freshman in high school. We built bikes for all sorts of racers and riders including the 1984 Olympic USA men's team. Every so often a customer like this came along and made everyone's working day a living hell. By 21 I'd had enough and went to engineering school.
    I don't have a dog in the fight, but have to say as an unbiased observer, this is a silly response. You're making a lot of assumptions based off the info. You think because someone can afford to travel abroad(and i missed the part of the story where he flew to CO, just to order the bike) that an $8k bike isn't a once in a lifetime, or at least very significant, purchase. Really?! I've traveled to many countries and don't ever see myself spending that kind of money on a bike, tho I could swing it if biking were a bigger part of my life. Recently spent $1200 on some custom 20" wheels from England and considered that very extravagant, for me. But I did it because they were a unique & interesting product..
    Also missed the part where anyone was implying he was a "poor boy, buying the bike of a lifetime".

    I'm not taking sides on the issue, as it seems to have been presented by both parties. But then you seem to insinuate that this customer is some kind of a-hole, "customer like this came along and made everyone's working day a living hell", that has to buy his bikes from abroad because the locals won't deal with him. Good grief, what a drama queen. His posts seem pretty civil to me, particularly for this forum. He's also gone out of his way to praise the frame build, in multiple posts.

    There were probably missed opportunities, on both sides, for this to have turned out better. In the long run, I think it will serve to help the business in future dealings...
    Framebones 29r belt drive, Surly 1x1mid-fat, Nashbar SS 29r half-fat, TommiSea Fatbike, FGFS/Loopwheel, Mini-velo/MTB :ihih:

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    Quote Originally Posted by pursuiter View Post
    He has the $$ to travel from Oz to Colorado and order an $8000 bike. Yet somehow we're to believe that he's Charlie of Willie Wonka fame, just a poor boy buying a bike of a lifetime.

    Now why didn't he just use a local OZ builder? There's more than a few, I'm sure one of these guys would be able to build what he wants...

    Australian Custom Bicycle Show

    ...maybe there's a reason why he doesn't go to a local builder....

    I worked at a high end custom frame builder (road/track/touring) starting as a 15 year old freshman in high school. We built bikes for all sorts of racers and riders including the 1984 Olympic USA men's team. Every so often a customer like this came along and made everyone's working day a living hell. By 21 I'd had enough and went to engineering school.
    You, my friend, are a ****ing goose! Your arrogance in your assumptions are astounding. Until you have some facts you should keep your shit to yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ads-bully View Post
    You, my friend, are a ****ing goose!....
    Pot, meet kettle. You post on an open forum and if you don't like the feedback you get it's off to obscenities. I worked retail too long not to understand what you are. The fact that no builder close to you will build you a bike speaks volumes about what's going on....

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    yeah, your right mate.. Glad to see you could make that out from any of my posts... If your "feedback" contained any actual facts, other than pure assumption on your part, I would agree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pursuiter View Post
    Pot, meet kettle. You post on an open forum and if you don't like the feedback you get it's off to obscenities. I worked retail too long not to understand what you are. The fact that no builder close to you will build you a bike speaks volumes about what's going on....
    Dude, unless you have info that's not part of this thread, there are some huge leaps in your "logic". Obscenities are warranted, I'd say.

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    so, on a lighter note, are you guys chad reed fans? how did you come up with the name?

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    22 is the atomic number for Ti.

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    makes sense, just clowning around.

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    Boy I bet the op never imagined this thread going in this direction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pursuiter View Post
    He has the $$ to travel from Oz to Colorado and order an $8000 bike. Yet somehow we're to believe that he's Charlie of Willie Wonka fame, just a poor boy buying a bike of a lifetime.

    Now why didn't he just use a local OZ builder? There's more than a few, I'm sure one of these guys would be able to build what he wants...

    Australian Custom Bicycle Show

    ...maybe there's a reason why he doesn't go to a local builder....

    I worked at a high end custom frame builder (road/track/touring) starting as a 15 year old freshman in high school. We built bikes for all sorts of racers and riders including the 1984 Olympic USA men's team. Every so often a customer like this came along and made everyone's working day a living hell. By 21 I'd had enough and went to engineering school.
    You are a classic... what an awesome post. Frame builder and Engineer come telepathist...

    If you bothered to read the facts printed in black and white in front of you instead of making a story up in you own head, then putting your foot in your mouth... it's amusing to say the least.

    Also if you knew anything about fat bikes and fat bike components with their popularity/availability in Australia up until now, you can jump to conclusions over that too.

    (ozzys tip: Don't post on the interwebz when drunk)
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post

    (ozzys tip: Don't post on the interwebz when drunk)
    That sure will limits me times on hear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pursuiter View Post
    Pot, meet kettle. You post on an open forum and if you don't like the feedback you get it's off to obscenities. I worked retail too long not to understand what you are. The fact that no builder close to you will build you a bike speaks volumes about what's going on....
    Just to let you know, as a totally unbiased observer (I don't know or recognize you or ads-bully), you are coming off as the idiot. Round 1 - ads-bully.

    bdundee, have you ever had a Founders Pale Ale? It's very good, as is their Porter.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    That sure will limits me times on hear.
    < needs to listen to his own advice
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    Quote Originally Posted by smithcreek View Post

    bdundee, have you ever had a Founders Pale Ale? It's very good, as is their Porter.
    Now a worthy thread! Do they brew a good stout as well?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ads-bully View Post
    yeah, your right mate.. Glad to see you could make that out from any of my posts... If your "feedback" contained any actual facts, other than pure assumption on your part, I would agree.
    Boo hoo, you're so butt hurt your $8K bike didn't make you happy, came out to slime and not everyone agrees. White people's problems never end.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Now a worthy thread! Do they brew a good stout as well?
    My Cousin-in law (?) turned me on to the Porter and that's all I've been drinking since Christmas. The liquor store ran out of Porter last week so I tried the Pale Ale. Stouts are my favorite but from what their website says they do a year round stout on tap and a seasonal stout that goes from Oct-Dec. and I have not had a chance to try either.

    From the website: The coffee lover’s consummate beer. Brewed with an abundance of flaked oats, bitter and imported chocolates, and Sumatra and Kona coffee, this stout has an intense fresh-roasted java nose topped with a frothy, cinnamon-colored head that goes forever.. That sounds good.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by pursuiter View Post
    Boo hoo, you're so butt hurt your $8K bike didn't make you happy, came out to slime and not everyone agrees. White people's problems never end.
    Hahah that's awesome mate! Keep it up, your making my day!!!

  53. #53
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    pursuiter and abs-bully take your adolescent argument to pm's, this thread was created by the fabricator in an effort to gather feedback and respond to consumer questions. Not to flush out who has that fattest head or is the most arrogant (even though pursuiter is clearly winning).

    If we want other fabricators to do the same, which ultimately should be gaining valuable input and feedback from the community, we need to regulate the stupidity before the fabricators sniff out this forum for what it is (and right now it is a joke).

    I will go create a thread for pursuiter right now, so we can get this one back on track. http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/mem...l#post11033307
    Last edited by jonshonda; 03-01-2014 at 11:04 AM.

  54. #54
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    Oh I pine for the days when this forum was filled with civility.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ View Post
    Oh I pine for the days when this forum was filled with civility.
    +1 trillion!

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Boy I bet the op never imagined this thread going in this direction.
    but they always do....
    Baby seal walks into a club.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    You are a classic... what an awesome post. Frame builder and Engineer come telepathist...

    If you bothered to read the facts printed in black and white in front of you instead of making a story up in you own head, then putting your foot in your mouth... it's amusing to say the least.

    Also if you knew anything about fat bikes and fat bike components with their popularity/availability in Australia up until now, you can jump to conclusions over that too.

    (ozzys tip: Don't post on the interwebz when drunk)
    This. Not sure why some people feel certain manufacturers should have a "free pass" to give substandard service, but there are those that will defend them till the day they die, even when presented with contradictory evidence...
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ View Post
    Oh I pine for the days when this forum was filled with civility.
    It was only one year ago! When. I first came here questions were asked and answered with no worry of being chastised or harassed. It was a great place to learn and show others what you had done with your fatty. Now it seems like every thread is meet with distain for the individual who posts it. Common man!

  59. #59
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    The large aluminum Bully is 3.6lbs, a Rohloff Ti is 4.2lbs. We don't have a steel frame at the moment.
    I appreciate you answering my question and would still love to hear the weight of a steel frame when you can provide it.

    As for where this discussion went - f*ck this sh^t - unsubscribe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gcappy View Post
    It was only one year ago! When. I first came here questions were asked and answered with no worry of being chastised or harassed. It was a great place to learn and show others what you had done with your fatty. Now it seems like every thread is meet with distain for the individual who posts it. Common man!
    You took the words out of my mouth.

    I just can't believe what i was reading.

    Instead of being happy to get representatives of bike companies coming to the forum to talk with the community they get welcomed by some apparently bored chaps that just want to get out the torches ..

    While its good to hear about possible issues in the customer care of 22cycles as ads stated i think it should have just stayed at both sides saying their view and letting people do their own judging of it.

    All the other posts didn't add anything relevant to the issue and imho ads/Ozzy certainly put themself in a worse light in the entire affair then putting down facts that make me believe that 22 cycles has a bad customer support.

    Just to make my reasoning clear.
    I got myself a titanium fatbike frame from an australian company (from europe) around the same time that ads ordered his US 22 cycles bike from Australia. So i know about the hazzles when getting something a continent and 10 timezones away.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Boy I bet the op never imagined this thread going in this direction.
    that is because people that are happy with their shizzle are out riding it and dont bother with forums

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    Quote Originally Posted by smithcreek View Post
    My Cousin-in law (?) turned me on to the Porter and that's all I've been drinking since Christmas. The liquor store ran out of Porter last week so I tried the Pale Ale. Stouts are my favorite but from what their website says they do a year round stout on tap and a seasonal stout that goes from Oct-Dec. and I have not had a chance to try either.

    From the website: The coffee lover’s consummate beer. Brewed with an abundance of flaked oats, bitter and imported chocolates, and Sumatra and Kona coffee, this stout has an intense fresh-roasted java nose topped with a frothy, cinnamon-colored head that goes forever.. That sounds good.
    Too lazy to read all the way through but Founders Breakfast Stout is one of the best stouts I have ever had the pleasure of drinking. It sucks that its a seasonal brew but it gives me another reason to look forward to the winter months.... I just wish this winter would end.

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    Mongoose Beast - 400+ miles of fine Chinese workmanship and riding strong.

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    Reading this thread is like having Christmas and a birthday all wrapped up together - feel the love.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vighor View Post
    Ozzy certainly put themself in a worse light in the entire affair then putting down facts that make me believe that 22 cycles has a bad customer support.
    I did not state one fact, your'e another one who need to read whats written in black and white.

    I only generalised on what I believe buying a custom bike should be like, not one comment about 22cycles or Ads issues.
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    22cycles tell us about your self? I have never heard of your outfit? where are you from? How long have you been in the frame making Biz? Back rounds? Pour it out turn this around...

  67. #67
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    Come on people now........

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/WybIhLJjlTY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

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    IMHO a $8k bike ventures into Ferrari land, and should be 100% perfect. If there is an issue, you perform root cause analysis to ensure the issue doesn't lie within the frames construction. Provide the customer with measurements and specs so they can help troubleshoot the problem. Once you have 100% ruled out frame issues, then start looking at component issues.

    It does sound like ads-bully was getting a little too upset and emotional, and started to blame issues on the fabricator that were a result of his own neglect. At that point it is hard to take a person seriously, as they come across as a whiney little b!tch who can never be satisfied.

    Technology has lead many to expect that they should be able to place a call to customer service at 2am on a Sunday, and expect a human to answer on the second ring. That is unreasonable, but what isn't unreasonable is to expect a response within a few days. Something as simple as a auto response via email would inform the customer of the situation. Communication is key, and that is part of the custom bike equation. You have an issue with the product, you dial up the owner or builder and talk directly to them, not to Abu in Pakistan.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by yxan View Post
    that is because people that are happy with their shizzle are out riding it and dont bother with forums
    This is the truth of anyone asking about things on this forum, negative comments get big press, positive comments do not. Too bad cause it seems 22 has hundreds of happy customers, but just a couple of very vocal unhappy customers.

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    I have a happy customer support story to share.

    Had a little problem with my Mongoose Beast. Called customer support, talked to a lovely woman here in America who answered on the second ring. She was very helpful and had my parts to me in two days, free of charge. And sent a follow up email to be sure everything went well.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by GiantTrek View Post
    I have a happy customer support story to share.

    Had a little problem with my Mongoose Beast. Called customer support, talked to a lovely woman here in America who answered on the second ring. She was very helpful and had my parts to me in two days, free of charge. And sent a follow up email to be sure everything went well.
    Glad your happy with your Mongoose.
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    http://www.alphapub.com/downloads/Leadership.pdf

    I find this an interesting read...might prove useful?

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    Did bikeabuser change his name to GiantTrek?

    I haven't ran across another user with such a hard-on for the beast as he has.

    suspise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    Did bikeabuser change his name to GiantTrek?

    I haven't ran across another user with such a hard-on for the beast as he has.

    suspise.
    Be gentle!! its his 1st Time , , on Fat Bikes. His hasn't ridden a custom yet. LOL. Just joking. not to offend or dishearten. Jab.
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  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    Did bikeabuser change his name to GiantTrek?

    I haven't ran across another user with such a hard-on for the beast as he has.

    suspise.



    There is always one malcontent to replace one lost.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    Did bikeabuser change his name to GiantTrek?

    I haven't ran across another user with such a hard-on for the beast as he has.

    suspise.
    Have a mod check his IP. If it's from China .. lol J/K

    Anyways, the one and ONLY Wally bike I have ever owned gave me a MISERABLE ride and didn't even last one season. I ended up selling it in a garage sale for $20 .. and GOOD RIDDANCE !! After that I swore that I would never waste my good hard earned $$ on a cheap super mass produced bike. I do have a friend who has a Mongoose mtb that he bought locally from a bike shop that went under for half price $1,000 about 6 - 7 years ago (maybe longer) It's a very good bike and sees a lot of use. He had to search for parts to repair the front suspension.

    Twenty2 Cycles is here to answer questions, comments, etc.-photo.jpg


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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ View Post
    There is always one malcontent to replace one lost.
    It's refreshing to see that all is not well in the supreme fat bike world. After being HECKLED, PESTERED, CHASTISED, RIDICULED, DEMEANED, HARASSED, and STALKED by jonshonda and other supreme beings on this forum - inside the Mongoose forums - it's absolutely beyond amazing to here them squeal sour grapes when their 8k, holier than thow bike purchase gets scorned from a fellow purchase.

    Hmmm. Never did I lambast your bikes in your own forum - I left that for you to destroy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeabuser View Post
    It's refreshing to see that all is not well in the supreme fat bike world. After being HECKLED, PESTERED, CHASTISED, RIDICULED, DEMEANED, HARASSED, and STALKED by jonshonda and other supreme beings on this forum - inside the Mongoose forums - it's absolutely beyond amazing to here them squeal sour grapes when their 8k, holier than thow bike purchase gets scorned from a fellow purchase.

    Hmmm. Never did I lambast your bikes in your own forum - I left that for you to destroy.


    53 posts and you have suffered all of the wrong doings of humanity?

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    I always get a kick out of people who cast stones at those who spend good money on top shelf tools. You talk all you want, but there is a reason that in every category of everything ever made there is a top notch quality custom market. THERE IS a difference...and I could personally give two sh!ts what bike you ride. But when you throw it out there as a nana-nana-boo-boo, people will want to stick your head in doo-doo!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    I always get a kick out of people who cast stones at those who spend good money on top shelf tools. You talk all you want, but there is a reason that in every category of everything ever made there is a top notch quality custom market. THERE IS a difference...and I could personally give two sh!ts what bike you ride. But when you throw it out there as a nana-nana-boo-boo, people will want to stick your head in doo-doo!
    Not always is there a "difference". Chris King, with a reputation for "quality", has made several significant flaws on their products, from rear DH through-axle hub cassette spacing to compression-ring-less headsets that were used due to pride and not being able to admit that "the other guy" came up with a better design. There are numerous examples of "quality" not living up to the reputation or price. In some cases the companies that focus highly on quality and production are also often to offer some of the most reasonable price (like shimano). Lots of other cassette and derailleur designs have been tried that were much more expensive and seemingly "higher quality", but many failed, because they simply didn't live up to the quality that they seemed to offer. Smart consumers know this and yes, some products that are very expensive DO offer better quality and last longer and are "worth it", but that's a generalization, in many cases it's not true and it's perpetuated by the appearance or reputation, rather than actuality.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    I always get a kick out of people who cast stones at those who spend good money on top shelf tools. You talk all you want, but there is a reason that in every category of everything ever made there is a top notch quality custom market. THERE IS a difference...
    I agree! I wish that I could afford a top shelf fat-bike, but I had to compromise on a Pugsley. As it is .. I don't race so I don't see paying the K's for a carbon fiber bike, but some do ( a growing number from what I see) and are justified. I don't see a $200 + fatbike holding up for any length of time hitting the pot holes like I have in my town .. not after this winter in Michigan, and it's not over yet.

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    Chris King isn't a real good example of custom, but you are correct.... even the mighty designers at CK make mistakes. Custom to me is a tool specifically designed for you, tailored for your needs and hand crafted as a one of a kind. No, it may not mean anything more to others than $$$, but to have your requests and ideas implemented into a design if a lot of fun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    Chris King isn't a real good example of custom, but you are correct.... even the mighty designers at CK make mistakes. Custom to me is a tool specifically designed for you, tailored for your needs and hand crafted as a one of a kind. No, it may not mean anything more to others than $$$, but to have your requests and ideas implemented into a design if a lot of fun.
    ANYTHING man made can fail. It comes down to customer service .. the warranty is only worth their value in their word to back it up. SOoo Walmart vs Surly or some small company working to build their reputation?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kris7047th View Post
    ANYTHING man made can fail. It comes down to customer service .. the warranty is only worth their value in their word to back it up.
    Exactly. Like GiantTrek said, the customer service provided to him on what is considered by the market as a budget bike was impeccable. Not something one might expect from the price paid for the beast, but should be 100% guaranteed from a high end builder.

    Excellent communication is a requirement if you want to stay in business as a small shop.

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    And here is something that hasn't been mentioned .. R & D. How many of these small companies spent time with this BEFORE they began cranking out custom bikes? I have a friend in the weapons industry who developed handgun top serrations, proper mounting for RMR sights (having to cut into the slide & mount for proper visual sighting. He pioneered in this aspect. He has developed other critical modifications that others are now *copy crafting* They never developed the thought, did the extensive R&D and undersell him. And people wanting the mods at bargain prices are mystified why the work was sub par?

    I am NOT inferring this is the case with this company .. the OP. I don't KNOW and I am and WE are not really privy to what all has transpired But this IS what you will get with cheap China mass produced bikes with specs that can be all over the charts, cheap steel, cheap aluminum, parts & components.

    What I do see is small companies popping up wanting in on the action .. too quickly maybe? Like I have said before, I have little experience & knowledge with bikes, but I am well familiar what happens in other *fields* when a hot trend takes off .. greed can set in.

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    This Thread Now Under New Management!


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    So I take it there was a plan to destroy this thread so 22 Cycles won't come around anymore? We got beer talk, Wal-mart, gun references, big butts and petty name-calling. All that's missing is a Nazi reference and a Narwhal.

    P.S. 22 Cycles, spam or not, you have nice looking bikes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Danger View Post
    So I take it there was a plan to destroy this thread so 22 Cycles won't come around anymore? We got beer talk, Wal-mart, gun references, big butts and petty name-calling. All that's missing is a Nazi reference and a Narwhal.

    P.S. 22 Cycles, spam or not, you have nice looking bikes.
    Guilty as charged with the gun reference .. only made as a comparison with small companies, those who do the R&D .. and those who *copycraft* and much of the time sell lower end junk for too much.

    I agree the OP has nice looking bikes. Have to judge by customers reviews in whole. There is always going to be a bad one no matter how reputable the company is.

    BTW .. this thread was destroyed LOONNG before my posts.

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    I feel bad for the OP, he clearly stated that he wanted to be part of the community...which proved to be a bunch of asshats. I've seen their bikes, I would like to have one if I could squeeze another bike into the house without my wife taking note (I shuffle them around regularly so she has trouble taking inventory). In any event, he stopped by, said Hi, and got his ass reamed. Too bad about that, since now he'll probably let this abominable thread die and walk away from MTBR. Now we miss the opportunity to communicate with a manufacturer who loves fatbikes. With all the misplaced vitriol I've seen here, I'm now a fan of 22 and done with this thread.

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stockli Boy View Post
    I feel bad for the OP, he clearly stated that he wanted to be part of the community...which proved to be a bunch of asshats. I've seen their bikes, I would like to have one if I could squeeze another bike into the house without my wife taking note (I shuffle them around regularly so she has trouble taking inventory). In any event, he stopped by, said Hi, and got his ass reamed. Too bad about that, since now he'll probably let this abominable thread die and walk away from MTBR. Now we miss the opportunity to communicate with a manufacturer who loves fatbikes. With all the misplaced vitriol I've seen here, I'm now a fan of 22 and done with this thread.
    On the other hand...while things did get off to a ill start, and some engaged in a pile-on, the general feeling towards Twenty2 Cycles, I would say is positive.

    As this IS a clown bike forum, can it not be said that the clowning around was used to defuse things? Perhaps the OP is able to see through the clutter and find a chair?

    This is a weekend...Tomorrow begins a fresh new week...

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    “Originally Posted by johshonda”

    I always get a kick out of people who cast stones at those who spend good money on top shelf tools. You talk all you want, but there is a reason that in every category of everything ever made there is a top notch quality custom market. THERE IS a difference...


    “ Originally Posted by kris7047th”

    I agree! I wish that I could afford a top shelf fat-bike, but I had to compromise on a Pugsley. As it is .. I don't race so I don't see paying the K's for a carbon fiber bike, but some do ( a growing number from what I see) and are justified. I don't see a $200 + fatbike holding up for any length of time hitting the pot holes like I have in my town .. not after this winter in Michigan, and it's not over yet.


    “Now posted by GiantTrek”

    I agree! I wish that I could afford a top shelf fat-bike, but I had to compromise on a Mongoose Beast. As it is. I don't race so I don't see paying the K's for a $1,750 Pugsley, but some do (a growing number from what I see) and are justified. I do see a $200 + fatbike holding up well on my daily commute, even with the pot holes like I have in my town. Especially this winter in my snowy frozen state, and it's not over yet. Its even more fun on the 30 inches of ice on the lake. And over the 40” of packed snow in the woods.


    “Originally posted by buckfiddious”

    I don't know how many times I can say this but I'll keep saying it: Ride your own ride. Don't ride someone else's ride, don't assume you know anything about anyone else.

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    You are doing it wrong GiantTrek.

    bdundee, that was a nice picture of the dozen roses you bought your wife for her b-day, until she backed dat ass up into the foreground to totally ruined it.

    edit: Looks like she got hungry and ate a few of the roses while you were composing the shot? Also, if I'm not mistaken, you should consider burning that stool, as I am sure it is stained with a few of her gunt juices.

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Danger View Post
    So I take it there was a plan to destroy this thread so 22 Cycles won't come around anymore? We got beer talk, Wal-mart, gun references, big butts and petty name-calling. All that's missing is a Nazi reference and a Narwhal.

    P.S. 22 Cycles, spam or not, you have nice looking bikes.
    Dude this thread was gone long before I tried to lighten it up a bit. It was actually done as a favor to them to help distract from all the negativity.
    edit: I am really sad you left out my video as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    You are doing it wrong GiantTrek.

    bdundee, that was a nice picture of the dozen roses you bought your wife for her b-day, until she backed dat ass up into the foreground to totally ruined it.

    edit: Looks like she got hungry and ate a few of the roses while you were composing the shot? Also, if I'm not mistaken, you should consider burning that stool, as I am sure it is stained with a few of her gunt juices.

    What is not to love about that!! Cheers.

  94. #94
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    I don't think that was really called for jonshonda.
    I see hills.

    I want to climb them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevob View Post
    I don't think that was really called for jonshonda.
    You might be right.....[insert little brat whiney voice while pointing finger at bdundee] but he started it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    You might be right.....[insert little brat whiney voice while pointing finger at bdundee] but he started it.
    Yes I am sorry I feel terrible for posting a pic that was degrading to women. So to show I no disrespect I removed it and replaced it with something a little more fitting.

    p.s. I love your frames Twenty 2 I am on you site looking and dreaming almost everyday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Dude this thread was gone long before I tried to lighten it up a bit. It was actually done as a favor to them to help distract from all the negativity.
    Here I thought by reading through the thread that the only rational explanation would be either a bunch of competitive builders were trying to undermine their business, or some dudes in the bike biz with petty grudges against someone working at 22 Cycles were just trying to settle old scores. But y'all are just trying to do them a solid. Guess the fat forum hasn't gone off the deep end after all.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Yes I am sorry I feel terrible for posting a pic that was degrading to women. So to show I no disrespect I removed it and replaced it with something a little more fitting.
    So instead you degrade bikeabuser and pursuiter by posting pics from their walgoose bikepacking adventure. Real classy.

    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    p.s. I love you frames Twenty 2 I am on you site looking and dreaming almost everyday.
    I think you are confusing their site with www.Iheart22yearoldmaleframes.com?

    Alright, I need to leave now. There is a bed and a dryer calling my name.


    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Danger View Post
    Here I thought by reading through the thread that the only rational explanation would be either a bunch of competitive builders were trying to undermine their business, or some dudes in the bike biz with petty grudges against someone working at 22 Cycles were just trying to settle old scores. But y'all are just trying to do them a solid. Guess the fat forum hasn't gone off the deep end after all.
    Ahhh, way to read between the lines. You think maybe it could be that Tommy Coghill is the mastermind behind such devious behavior? He's a witch.

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    Hey bdundee, thanks alot for that pic. Don't you know that something once seen cannot be unseen?? That was uncalled for! Now I'm probably going to have to go kill some more brain cells.

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    Righto, I think enough is enough...

    The OP asked for feedback and questions... I gave MY opinion on MY perceived issues I had with the builder.. End of story... A good portion of the preceding 5 pages have not done anything to add to the thread at all.

    As I have always said, Twenty2 Cycles build an excellent frame, I just happened to have issues with other parts of the build.. So, for those that are interested in the brand, ask away. For those that are not, maybe it is time to hit up the other thread that jonshonda has started.. And as an aside, here is the bike in the flesh, out where it should be...

    Cheers
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Twenty2 Cycles is here to answer questions, comments, etc.-photo5.jpg  


  101. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Danger View Post
    Guess the fat forum hasn't gone off the deep end after all.
    It just requires an acquired taste.

  102. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by ads-bully View Post
    Righto, I think enough is enough...

    The OP asked for feedback and questions... I gave MY opinion on MY perceived issues I had with the builder.. End of story... A good portion of the preceding 5 pages have not done anything to add to the thread at all.

    As I have always said, Twenty2 Cycles build an excellent frame, I just happened to have issues with other parts of the build.. So, for those that are interested in the brand, ask away. For those that are not, maybe it is time to hit up the other thread that jonshonda has started.. And as an aside, here is the bike in the flesh, out where it should be...

    Cheers
    I like it!

  103. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by ads-bully View Post
    Righto, I think enough is enough...

    The OP asked for feedback and questions... I gave MY opinion on MY perceived issues I had with the builder.. End of story... A good portion of the preceding 5 pages have not done anything to add to the thread at all.

    As I have always said, Twenty2 Cycles build an excellent frame, I just happened to have issues with other parts of the build.. So, for those that are interested in the brand, ask away. For those that are not, maybe it is time to hit up the other thread that jonshonda has started.. And as an aside, here is the bike in the flesh, out where it should be...

    Cheers
    As one or two posts way back on the first page sarcastically pointed out "who could have seen this coming?" All in all, it's been entertaining and run it's course in a virtually pre-determined manner with all the usual posts from "it's shilling" and "they build bikes for love not profit" to "you horrible people have scared them off" and completely off topic humor. So yes, it's run it's course, stick a fork in it. Best option is for the OP to wait until this thread eventually drops off the first page, then change the name of the title so it never comes up in a search.

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    Never mind!
    Last edited by bdundee; 05-12-2014 at 04:54 PM.

  105. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtuck1 View Post
    I like it!
    He's a patient, polite and easy going bloke.... i can tell you here and now, there's NO WAY I would have dealt with the situation the same as he did.

    I would have been the OP with guns blazing months ago !
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  106. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    their Ti frames is a little to expensive and the head angle is a little steep.
    The welds on their frames are beautiful, compared to my Carver they are unmistakeably done with love. Not that mine are bad by any means but they are sexier.

    Now the love is flowing and all is said and done, here's another from a few months back.

    Santa Cruz Hightower LT Evil Following Trek 9.9 Superfly SL IndyFab Deluxe 29 Pivot Vault CX Cervelo R3 Disc

  107. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    The welds on their frames are beautiful, compared to my Carver they are unmistakeably done with love. Not that mine are bad by any means but they are sexier.
    And this is why I have lusted over them for years.

  108. #108
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    Years ago I was in a meeting at work and the sales guy was explaining to the rest of us how important customer service is. He said that "a happy customer may share their experience with one or two others, but an unhappy customer will share with ten or more others". Since then I have seen that played out numerous times. For example awhile ago I was agonizing over the decision to purchase an Iphone for my wife. She didn't really want one but I knew she would really benefit from the additional conveniences of a smart phone. I went online and read everything I could find about the Iphone and there were many positive reports as one might expect, but there were far more negative reports. In the end I bought the Iphone and she loved it. Never a problem, and everyone I know that has one loves them. In the end we all need to weigh the facts and make the best decision possible based on them.

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    I think the pricing is fair relative to other US made Ti fat frames. A bit more than Lynskey, but significantly less than a Moots or Ericksen. And unlike some of the others there's no premium for a fat frame over their regular frames. I bought my complete bike from them for a pretty sweet introductory price almost 2 1/2 years ago. It's seen a few thousand miles of rocks, dirt, beach and snow since then.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Twenty2 Cycles is here to answer questions, comments, etc.-img_1236.jpg  


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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    IMHO a $8k bike ventures into Ferrari land, and should be 100% perfect. If there is an issue, you perform root cause analysis to ensure the issue doesn't lie within the frames construction. Provide the customer with measurements and specs so they can help troubleshoot the problem. Once you have 100% ruled out frame issues, then start looking at component issues.
    Your first words here are very accurate- an 8k custom is a lot like a Ferrari.

    Unfortunately, Ferraris are high-strung, maintenance monsters that rarely get driven more than 1000 miles a year, and then only in perfect conditions. THey also have a nasty habit of bursting into flames for no apparent reason. Customs can be a lot like that- they're higher strung, built to tighter tolerances. You gain 20 pounds, your custom bike suddenly doesn't ride right. You want to use a different crank than the one you originally spec'ed? Might not fit. Because your custom might have been built around the original crank.

    If you want to see something that says a lot about custom frames, go to the classifieds section of the paceline forum Classifieds (Cycling Products) - The Paceline Forum and see how many formerly perfect, not quite perfect anymore custom frames are for sale.

    If you want a perfect bike, don't buy a custom. You will get better quality control from a big manufacturer, you will get a better warranty, you will get better service. Your parts will fit better when you upgrade next year.

    What you get from a custom is not perfect, it's what you want. THat's one of the reasons they aren't perfect. it's extremely likely that you don't know more about bike design than the engineers at trek.

    I don't have a dog in this fight, except to say that custom bikes are not what most people think they are.

  111. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckfiddious View Post
    If you want a perfect bike, don't buy a custom. You will get better quality control from a big manufacturer, you will get a better warranty, you will get better service. Your parts will fit better when you upgrade next year.
    ^^^^ this...custom and perfect don't go together at least not frequently enough for that to be a realistic expectation.

    More $$$ does not equal more better.
    Safe riding,

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    ....aaaapart from my "custom" steel indy fab which is an exact geo of a Niner MCR9, only 300g lighter... is that even custom ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckfiddious View Post
    If you want a perfect bike, don't buy a custom. You will get better quality control from a big manufacturer, you will get a better warranty, you will get better service. Your parts will fit better when you upgrade next year.

    What you get from a custom is not perfect, it's what you want. THat's one of the reasons they aren't perfect. it's extremely likely that you don't know more about bike design than the engineers at trek.

    I don't have a dog in this fight, except to say that custom bikes are not what most people think they are.
    There's some truth in what you're saying here, but most of what qualifies as custom is not really pushing the envelope - a longer top tube here, a Rohloff-compatible rear end there. Not sure why QC would be a tradeoff. A small builder can closely inspect every frame vs. the sampling that's done in a high volume manufacturing operation.

    If the customer is trying to spec a frame or bike that's unsafe, unreliable, or just plain dumb, the builder has a duty to tell them at a minimum, or to refuse to build it at the extreme end.

    From a QC perspective, a custom version of a frame should be just as perfect as the "standard" version of their frames.

  114. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckfiddious View Post
    Your first words here are very accurate- an 8k custom is a lot like a Ferrari.

    Unfortunately, Ferraris are high-strung, maintenance monsters that rarely get driven more than 1000 miles a year, and then only in perfect conditions. THey also have a nasty habit of bursting into flames for no apparent reason. Customs can be a lot like that- they're higher strung, built to tighter tolerances. You gain 20 pounds, your custom bike suddenly doesn't ride right. You want to use a different crank than the one you originally spec'ed? Might not fit. Because your custom might have been built around the original crank.

    If you want to see something that says a lot about custom frames, go to the classifieds section of the paceline forum Classifieds (Cycling Products) - The Paceline Forum and see how many formerly perfect, not quite perfect anymore custom frames are for sale.

    If you want a perfect bike, don't buy a custom. You will get better quality control from a big manufacturer, you will get a better warranty, you will get better service. Your parts will fit better when you upgrade next year.

    What you get from a custom is not perfect, it's what you want. THat's one of the reasons they aren't perfect. it's extremely likely that you don't know more about bike design than the engineers at trek.

    I don't have a dog in this fight, except to say that custom bikes are not what most people think they are.
    +∞!
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to buckfiddious again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SmooveP View Post

    From a QC perspective, a custom version of a frame should be just as perfect as the "standard" version of their frames.
    Agreed Smooffpee.

    Not road tested like the standard but with only a few slight alterations, that's what you are paying the premium to the builder for.... he should know, that's what he does.

    BTW (in the context of the thread): As Ads stated, it's not the frame that was the issue, it was the build kit and aftermarket CS from 22cycles.
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  116. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmooveP View Post
    There's some truth in what you're saying here, but most of what qualifies as custom is not really pushing the envelope - a longer top tube here, a Rohloff-compatible rear end there. Not sure why QC would be a tradeoff. A small builder can closely inspect every frame vs. the sampling that's done in a high volume manufacturing operation.

    If the customer is trying to spec a frame or bike that's unsafe, unreliable, or just plain dumb, the builder has a duty to tell them at a minimum, or to refuse to build it at the extreme end.

    From a QC perspective, a custom version of a frame should be just as perfect as the "standard" version of their frames.
    QC is a tradeoff because it's a one-off. Every single custom is a one-off, and change is the enemy of perfection. A custom builder can't cut every 100th frame apart to make sure the welds are perfect. They don't have engineers who ran everything through a stress analysis program to make sure that a frame that size wouldn't flex. They don't have custom drawn tubing for the crazy sizes. Mass production tends to average out quality, and it's a lot easier to toss a bad frame when you're making 10,000. And mass production quality of bikes at this point in history is just insanely good.

    And builders SHOULD stand up and tell their customers that what they are asking for is a bad idea. But the economy sucks and most of these guys are just scraping by. So you compromise.

  117. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    ....aaaapart from my "custom" steel indy fab which is an exact geo of a Niner MCR9, only 300g lighter... is that even custom ?
    The risk of an issue cropping up is related to how closely the "custom" bike you ordered is to the bikes the builder normally produces.

    If you ask a builder that makes a ton of 29ers to build you one and the only thing novel is the paint you choose there isn't much risk.


    Quote Originally Posted by SmooveP View Post
    From a QC perspective, a custom version of a frame should be just as perfect as the "standard" version of their frames.
    I'd agree that the welds should be as good on the custom frame as the more standard frame. Where things go off the rails is the elements that are not something the builder does regularly. A builder that has built many Rohloff frames and maybe owns a Rohloff themselves may well avoid a problem that a builder who is new to that component. Bikes are quite complicated in some respects if you want to get all the fine details worked out you need to have built quite a few versions of something similar before.

    Just because a guy can produce amazing welds and has built bikes of type Y that folks love does not mean when they build the first few of bike X that those bikes will be equally as good.

    All you have to do is look at all the "ultimate forever custom dream" bikes that get sold after a year or two. People don't say much publicly about why that happens - partially because after spending the price of a motorcycle on a bike they feel a bit sheepish being less than thrilled about your dream bike that you gushed about for 10 pages in a build thread on MTBR and partially because they want to sell that bike and get some $$ back so trash talking it won't help their cause in that regard.

    One bike I saw recently didn't make it 3 months before it was sold off.
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  118. #118
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    Vic, you have explained probably why we are not commissioning an Australian custom bike builder to build a fatbike frame, they have no experience.

    Everytime i see Drevils Vertigo I drool... absolutely unreal looking bike and i have never seen another.

    I would love a Baum Ti fatty but im not that fussed, i fit a regular med production frame pretty well so for half the price i can change bikes with normal loss every few years.
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  119. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmooveP View Post
    I think the pricing is fair relative to other US made Ti fat frames. A bit more than Lynskey, but significantly less than a Moots or Ericksen. And unlike some of the others there's no premium for a fat frame over their regular frames. I bought my complete bike from them for a pretty sweet introductory price almost 2 1/2 years ago. It's seen a few thousand miles of rocks, dirt, beach and snow since then.
    I never said the price wasn't fair, I just said it was to pricey for me.

  120. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    Vic, you have explained probably why we are not commissioning an Australian custom bike builder to build a fatbike frame, they have no experience.
    That makes sense.

    If you ever wanted a domestic custom fatty and found a builder who wanted to get into that market it's not rocket science, but they have to be willing to build a few iterations and get you to ride them until the design was dialled.

    It's an investment for both parties so there has to be some serious interest.

    As you note it's easier to commission a custom fatty from someone who is already in the game even if that means shipping from the EU or US.
    Safe riding,

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  121. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckfiddious View Post
    QC is a tradeoff because it's a one-off. Every single custom is a one-off, and change is the enemy of perfection. A custom builder can't cut every 100th frame apart to make sure the welds are perfect. They don't have engineers who ran everything through a stress analysis program to make sure that a frame that size wouldn't flex. They don't have custom drawn tubing for the crazy sizes. Mass production tends to average out quality, and it's a lot easier to toss a bad frame when you're making 10,000. And mass production quality of bikes at this point in history is just insanely good.

    And builders SHOULD stand up and tell their customers that what they are asking for is a bad idea. But the economy sucks and most of these guys are just scraping by. So you compromise.
    True dat. But! We are talking about Ti frames here, and I doubt that there are any manufacturers of Ti frames putting out the kind of volume that would justify the kinds of QC that you're talking about. Many (most?) of the bigger brands that offer Ti bikes seem to outsource them to small shops that specialize in Ti. The rest of the parts on a complete bike are usually sourced from the big component manufacturers who most likely DO stuff like FEA and have ISO 9000 compliant quality practices and such, so the small builder's QC responsibilities for assembling a complete bike are reduced to the fairly low-tech activities like making sure that the parts fit and are installed correctly. Obviously, welding frames has a different set of responsibilities, specifically alignment and the quality of the welds. This where the best small builders tend to excel when compared to the bigger factories.

    From my personal observations, I've seen more serious QC problems coming from large manufacturers. Does anyone here not know someone who snapped a Cannondale frame? In the realm of fatbikes, both Surly (cracked frames, fork problems) and Salsa (crank/chainline thing) have had well-publicized issues. The big guys are doing tradeoffs, too. Not sure if their tradeoffs are better or worse for the consumer than what the small builders are doing. Some of them are also just scraping by (or going out of business altogether). I haven't seen a lot of serious quality issues coming out of the small builders myself. The ones I've owned ('1990 Merlin that I still own and the Twenty2) have been awesome.

    The issues with custom bikes that you and Vik mention seem to be not so much quality related as the owners asking for, and getting, something dumb. There are lots of cases where people order a custom frame with short chainstays or slack/steep head angles because they read a review somewhere, only to discover that that geometry wasn't right for them. Or the 250lb guy who demands the lightest double butted tubing for his Ti frame and is disappointed to learn that it's a noodle.

    Most of this is just splitting hairs. You can get a quality bike from a big or little guy. My personal bias is slanted towards small builders because of my support for craftsmanship as an art form and as a way to make a living. I hope to at least dabble in frame building at some point in my life. If I could make a frame half as nice as what Twenty2 makes, I'd be pretty proud.

  122. #122
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    Sorry...I was out riding my Twenty2! Did I miss anything in the last 4 pages?

  123. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatbiker67 View Post
    Sorry...I was out riding my Twenty2! Did I miss anything in the last 4 pages?
    Not really.
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    That's what I thought. Seemed to be going downhill and off topic quickly.

    Questions for Twenty2:
    How does one end up a rider for Twenty2?
    Any plans on selling frames or complete bikes in shops outside of Colorado?

    Thanks,
    S

  125. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatbiker67 View Post
    That's what I thought. Seemed to be going downhill and off topic quickly.

    Questions for Twenty2:
    How does one end up a rider for Twenty2?
    Any plans on selling frames or complete bikes in shops outside of Colorado?

    Thanks,
    S
    We are going to be building a network of dealers over the next year or so. Right now we are working on a new facility and showroom in Colorado, which will be keeping our hands full for a while. As far as riding for us, feel free to send in a resume. I can't promise much at the moment, but we're happy to look at it. Thanks for your interest and enjoy your Bully!
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  126. #126
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    Never mind
    Last edited by cdrmtbiker; 09-16-2014 at 10:07 AM. Reason: contacted company

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    Never mind.

  128. #128
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    Can I run a Bluto on my Ti Bully? I currently have a Cane Creek 110 headset. If so what travel do you recommend? Thanks.

  129. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdrmtbiker View Post
    Can I run a Bluto on my Ti Bully? I currently have a Cane Creek 110 headset. If so what travel do you recommend? Thanks.
    I do but I had the down tube bent for crown clearance and run an external lower cup with a 100mm travel. I had my headtube angle built at 69.8 with a 80mm fork but opted for the 100mm and love it.
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  130. #130
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    That poor fence does the bike no justice. She is pretty in person.

    You should let me "borrow" those wheels from you for a few years. : Drool :

  131. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    I do but I had the down tube bent for crown clearance and run an external lower cup with a 100mm travel. I had my headtube angle built at 69.8 with a 80mm fork but opted for the 100mm and love it.
    Thanks for the info. I have the straight down tube so even if I get a lower external headset cup I am still not sure if the fork will clear. I was hoping someone with the standard straight down tube will chime in.

  132. #132
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    I'm riding my steel bully with a 120mm bluto, I had to remove the compression knob to clear the downtube(replaced the knob w/ a bottlecap), air side cap clears fine. Using a CC 40 external lower cup. You only need a couple of mm, so maybe you could use a crown race spacer or something if needed. 120mm is a little long for my liking, next time it needs service I will be reducing travel.

  133. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stopbreakindown View Post
    I'm riding my steel bully with a 120mm bluto, I had to remove the compression knob to clear the downtube(replaced the knob w/ a bottlecap), air side cap clears fine. Using a CC 40 external lower cup. You only need a couple of mm, so maybe you could use a crown race spacer or something if needed. 120mm is a little long for my liking, next time it needs service I will be reducing travel.
    Interesting. What size is your frame? My guess is that you're more likely to get away with this on a larger frame.

  134. #134
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    Size medium

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  135. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stopbreakindown View Post
    Size medium

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    Wooo, dat's tight. My frame is a small. How's the handling? Did you start out with a 450 A/C rigid fork?

  136. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    That poor fence does the bike no justice. She is pretty in person.

    You should let me "borrow" those wheels from you for a few years. : Drool :
    Thanks dood and no but glad you enjoyed 9mile. It destroyed my Seca light the other night and brokeded me toe.

  137. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmooveP View Post
    Wooo, dat's tight. My frame is a small. How's the handling? Did you start out with a 450 A/C rigid fork?
    Nope, using a 9zero7 with 483mm A/C (150mm hub spacing)

    Handling feels great to me, it puts the HA in line with my other bikes (N9/Paradox/RIP9)

    The front wants to come up on short steep climbs, but I am usually out of the saddle anyways.

    I really need to take some proper pics of Domo, those posted above are pretty bad.

  138. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stopbreakindown View Post
    I'm riding my steel bully with a 120mm bluto, I had to remove the compression knob to clear the downtube(replaced the knob w/ a bottlecap), air side cap clears fine. Using a CC 40 external lower cup. You only need a couple of mm, so maybe you could use a crown race spacer or something if needed. 120mm is a little long for my liking, next time it needs service I will be reducing travel.
    Thanks for the info and pics. My frame is a medium also. I have a buddy with a bluto who is going to let me borrow it to see if it will fit. I want to figure out what I need to do...new headset with a larger bottom EC or some type of spacer before I actually get the fork. I will have to rebuild my front wheel. I currently have a Sarma fork which takes a 135mm hub. I will take some pics when I size up the bluto.

  139. #139
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    Each headset company has a different stack height for the lower cup, just something to check into to help with clearance issues.

  140. #140
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  141. #141
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    Just found out that Twenty2 Cycles is done.

  142. #142
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    Pfft! They died of gross mismanagement quite some time ago. Unfortunately.
    Get fAt, Stay fAt, Ride fAt
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  143. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by pursuiter View Post
    Boo hoo, you're so butt hurt your $8K bike didn't make you happy, came out to slime and not everyone agrees. White people's problems never end.
    You are messed up. I worked retail too and I know the kind of customers you are taking about and this situation doesn't even come close to an unreasonable customer.

    Furthermore, 22 cycles claiming that they didn't even build the wheel shows a lack of ownership on their part. Ads didn't pay the wheel builder directly, he paid 22. The person he paid is responsible. If i dropped 7k on a bike, it better be perfect.

  144. #144
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    You know the comment that got under your skin is 3 years old, right?
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  145. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by BansheeRune View Post
    Pfft! They died of gross mismanagement quite some time ago. Unfortunately.
    Really? What happened?

  146. #146
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    They mismanaged the business side of things and found out that they were hemorrhaging at the jugular. One day there was a shop and fab shop, the next it was dark.

    Persuiter can have the 3rd world lifestyle, while those of us that believe that hard work brings rewards our way will enjoy said benefit. Meanwhile, Persuiter, you can forget about getting your slimy mitts on the fruits of the labor of others and get offa the sofa and become hard working rather than be a burden expecting others to carry ya...Yep, I know it's and oldie, but lazy a s s peeps need to hear it said.
    End of rant.

    As for 22 not building wheels, Pfft! I witnessed Darren building plenty of wheels while they were in the hood.
    Get fAt, Stay fAt, Ride fAt
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  147. #147
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    A little homage to the fallen Twenty2, long may you live under my arse!!
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  148. #148
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    Bully with a true B+

    Loving it!


  149. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stopbreakindown View Post
    Bully with a true B+

    Loving it!

    Looks like it tipped over dead

  150. #150
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    Pretty much how I felt after 2k' of climbing in 4 miles with 30mph headwinds

  151. #151
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    freshly built Bully in Japan

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  152. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdrmtbiker View Post
    Just found out that Twenty2 Cycles is done.
    What do you mean by this? They don't look "done" to me.

  153. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magicscreen View Post
    What do you mean by this? They don't look "done" to me.
    There's a snowboard shop in their former location. The website has not been updated in some time and never reflected the fact that Twenty2 was sold to a group of knuckle heads that couldn't make the cut in a bad economy. I attended their liquidation sale.
    Get fAt, Stay fAt, Ride fAt
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  154. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by BansheeRune View Post
    There's a snowboard shop in their former location. The website has not been updated in some time and never reflected the fact that Twenty2 was sold to a group of knuckle heads that couldn't make the cut in a bad economy. I attended their liquidation sale.
    That's too bad. They seemed to make a really nice bike.

    Thanks for replying.

  155. #155
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    It was a real shame that they didn't survive. The opportunity to have a custom with dimensions and geometry tuned to the rider is scarce.
    Their standard Bully was a very nice rig with a good geometry.
    Get fAt, Stay fAt, Ride fAt
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  156. #156
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    A Coldfront is coming...

  157. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by drtoro View Post
    A Coldfront is coming...
    Hmmmmm?? Still lovin on my Bully
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  158. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Hmmmmm?? Still lovin on my Bully
    That's good looking, bdundee. Was that a custom build or their stock bully?

  159. #159
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    Mine's still going strong after 5 years. Great bike, but bummed about my "lifetime" warranty.
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  160. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magicscreen View Post
    That's good looking, bdundee. Was that a custom build or their stock bully?
    Thanks and it was a custom built frame.

  161. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmooveP View Post
    Mine's still going strong after 5 years. Great bike, but bummed about my "lifetime" warranty.
    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Thanks and it was a custom built frame.
    Beautiful bikes, gents. Yes, the warranty will be tough to collect on -- have you heard of anyone having trouble with the Twenty2 frames?

  162. #162
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    SmooveP's frame is safe, he would need to eat a crap ton of cheeseburgers before there could be any real threat. No haven't heard of any frame issues, mine if very stout for a ti frame. Thanks again.

  163. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magicscreen View Post
    Beautiful bikes, gents. Yes, the warranty will be tough to collect on -- have you heard of anyone having trouble with the Twenty2 frames?
    Nope, but they're pretty rare around these parts (NJ). I don't recall seeing anyone on the forums reporting breakage, either.

  164. #164
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    Got out on my steel Bully today. Rides so nice...


  165. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    SmooveP's frame is safe, he would need to eat a crap ton of cheeseburgers before there could be any real threat. No haven't heard of any frame issues, mine if very stout for a ti frame. Thanks again.
    Ha, troof! Eating season is upon us, though. So if I put on a few lbs and continue grabbing the massive airs, ya never know. How's it going, Bob?

  166. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmooveP View Post
    Ha, troof! Eating season is upon us, though. So if I put on a few lbs and continue grabbing the massive airs, ya never know. How's it going, Bob?
    Doing great, thanks for asking!! Yes bulking season is upon us now and got to ride snow today so life is great all around. My Bully has retired to winter only duties since the plus bike came along so it's days of big air has come to an end which will hopefully extend it's life in the kwiver.

  167. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stopbreakindown View Post
    Got out on my steel Bully today. Rides so nice...
    This is a great looking bike, Stop. What type of saddle are you rocking there?

  168. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magicscreen View Post
    This is a great looking bike, Stop. What type of saddle are you rocking there?
    Chromag Bikes - Trailmaster Ltd

  169. #169
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    Twenty2 Cycles is here to answer questions, comments, etc.-img_2759.jpg

    And we're off. This is a seriously sweet ride.

  170. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magicscreen View Post
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    And we're off. This is a seriously sweet ride.
    Looks good, man!

  171. #171
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    Thanks, Smoove. I'm excited about it.

    If you all have some Twenty2 tips, make sure you clue me in.

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    Well, sorry to report that after 8 years of riding the crap out of my Bully in fat and plus mode, that the frame cracked where the seat tube and top tube meet. The top few inches of my seat tube is a separate piece, and the weld that joins the 2 pieces cracked all the way around and spread into the top tube on both sides. I didn't notice right away and did several rides where the seatpost (I thought) was creaking. I'm wondering if all their Ti frames were built this way. Anyway, keep on eye on yours!

    Twenty2 Cycles is here to answer questions, comments, etc.-ef301eee-5f15-4377-9388-e14035de27c1.jpeg

  173. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmooveP View Post
    Well, sorry to report that after 8 years of riding the crap out of my Bully in fat and plus mode, that the frame cracked where the seat tube and top tube meet. The top few inches of my seat tube is a separate piece, and the weld that joins the 2 pieces cracked all the way around and spread into the top tube on both sides. I didn't notice right away and did several rides where the seatpost (I thought) was creaking. I'm wondering if all their Ti frames were built this way. Anyway, keep on eye on yours!

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Say it ain't so, SmooveP! This literally strikes fear in my heart. I think my Twenty2 Ti Bully with the 29+ wheels and 3" Rangers is about my favorite thing in the world.

    Have you had someone look at it to see if it can be repaired?

    Gah, I'm afraid even to look at my bike now.

    Soooo sorry, man.

  174. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magicscreen View Post
    Say it ain't so, SmooveP! This literally strikes fear in my heart. I think my Twenty2 Ti Bully with the 29+ wheels and 3" Rangers is about my favorite thing in the world.

    Have you had someone look at it to see if it can be repaired?

    Gah, I'm afraid even to look at my bike now.

    Soooo sorry, man.
    Thanks, man.
    It was my all-time favorite bike, and I've had quite a few over 30 years. I'd been riding it lately in mid-fat mode most of the time with 27.5x3 wheels.
    They're not all built the same way, so you might be OK. In the pic you can see it cracked at the weld that goes all the way around the seat tube. I spoke to a local guy who also has a Twenty2 fatbike, and his is not constructed that way (his seat tube is not segmented.) I reached out on FB to a guy who was one of their framebuilders, but he hasn't replied yet, so not sure if it can be repaired. I'm not optimistic, given that the top tube is cracked on both sides. All that said, I rode (and raced) the crap out of it for 8 years, so I got my money's worth.

  175. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmooveP View Post
    Thanks, man.
    It was my all-time favorite bike, and I've had quite a few over 30 years. I'd been riding it lately in mid-fat mode most of the time with 27.5x3 wheels.
    They're not all built the same way, so you might be OK. In the pic you can see it cracked at the weld that goes all the way around the seat tube. I spoke to a local guy who also has a Twenty2 fatbike, and his is not constructed that way (his seat tube is not segmented.) I reached out on FB to a guy who was one of their framebuilders, but he hasn't replied yet, so not sure if it can be repaired. I'm not optimistic, given that the top tube is cracked on both sides. All that said, I rode (and raced) the crap out of it for 8 years, so I got my money's worth.
    I am anxious to get home from work and take a look at mine. I have a lot of seat-post exposed and am sure there is a lot of torque there - but that would be the case, almost regardless of the frame. I was just re-reading this thread and the dark irony of the talk about your frame being "safe" is a little sad to me. Let me know what you hear about a repair. I've got a good friend who is a pro welder and serious rider, I'll ask him what he thinks.

  176. #176
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    I cant seem to find your website, states Forbidden Access.
    There is another website called 22.com

  177. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt4x4 View Post
    I cant seem to find your website, states Forbidden Access.
    There is another website called 22.com
    They went out of business around 3 years ago. There's another company called 22 Bicycles. 22 is the atomic number for Titanium on the element chart.

  178. #178
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    Bicycle companies are a dime a dozen!

  179. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmooveP View Post
    Thanks, man.
    It was my all-time favorite bike, and I've had quite a few over 30 years. I'd been riding it lately in mid-fat mode most of the time with 27.5x3 wheels.
    They're not all built the same way, so you might be OK. In the pic you can see it cracked at the weld that goes all the way around the seat tube. I spoke to a local guy who also has a Twenty2 fatbike, and his is not constructed that way (his seat tube is not segmented.) I reached out on FB to a guy who was one of their framebuilders, but he hasn't replied yet, so not sure if it can be repaired. I'm not optimistic, given that the top tube is cracked on both sides. All that said, I rode (and raced) the crap out of it for 8 years, so I got my money's worth.
    I showed your picture to my friend the pro welder/rider and he said he'd be surprised if it can be repaired, but said he doesn't specialize in Ti and that you should talk to someone who does. If you don't hear back from your FB inquiry, I bet you could ask someone at one of the smaller, high-quality Ti shops what they think. I bet Jeff Bingham at Eriksen/Bingham Built in Steamboat Springs would give you an opinion.

    Fortunately, my seat tube doesn't look like it's constructed the same way yours is (with the extension on the seat tube), so fingers-crossed it doesn't suffer the same fate.

    Good luck, Smoove!

  180. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magicscreen View Post
    I showed your picture to my friend the pro welder/rider and he said he'd be surprised if it can be repaired, but said he doesn't specialize in Ti and that you should talk to someone who does. If you don't hear back from your FB inquiry, I bet you could ask someone at one of the smaller, high-quality Ti shops what they think. I bet Jeff Bingham at Eriksen/Bingham Built in Steamboat Springs would give you an opinion.

    Fortunately, my seat tube doesn't look like it's constructed the same way yours is (with the extension on the seat tube), so fingers-crossed it doesn't suffer the same fate.

    Good luck, Smoove!
    Thanks, man. I pretty much decided to get a new frame because I feel like I wouldn't be able to trust any repair. If I do find someone to weld it, I may retire it to snow-only use. I already reached out to Brad about lead times for a new frame, but he's 8-10 weeks out and I'm too impatient to wait that long. Exploring other options...

  181. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmooveP View Post
    Thanks, man. I pretty much decided to get a new frame because I feel like I wouldn't be able to trust any repair. If I do find someone to weld it, I may retire it to snow-only use. I already reached out to Brad about lead times for a new frame, but he's 8-10 weeks out and I'm too impatient to wait that long. Exploring other options...
    Yes, Brad (I'm not sure where Jeff came from...) I'd love to have an Eriksen! If you are interested, I ride with a guy who has a Lynskey Fatskey Ti frame and really digs it as both fat and 29+. Frame only is listed at $1,200 -- which seems like a decent deal:https://lynskeyperformance.com/fatsk...in-bike-frame/

    Let us know what you end up with!

  182. #182
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    Cracked frames are always sad.
    Did you have enough seat tube down there? Odd place to crack, unless the seat tube is too short.

  183. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shark View Post
    Cracked frames are always sad.
    Did you have enough seat tube down there? Odd place to crack, unless the seat tube is too short.
    Hey, Shark!
    Yeah, 4 or 5 inches of insertion. The problem is that 2" welded-on segment at the top of the seat tube has a smaller inside diameter than the rest of the seat tube, which has the effect of concentrating all the stress in that 2" area. Add to that a fair amount of exposed seatpost (and it's a layback to boot) and a bunch of other welds in the same area, and it's easy to see why it happened. It's amazing it lasted this long. I put well over 15,000 miles on it. My only saving grace is that I'm a scrawny 150lbs. This pic is from a series that Twenty2 did on Facebook (still up there, see "Small Bully Build" photo album). You can clearly see the separate segment. Not sure why they did this. My guess is they were trying to keep the frame light, so they used thinner tubing for the main part of the seat tube and thicker tubing for the clamping area segment. Seems dumb in hindsight.

    Twenty2 Cycles is here to answer questions, comments, etc.-bully-build-1.jpg

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