Tubeless Darryl- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 151 of 151

Thread: Tubeless Darryl

  1. #1
    All fat, all the time.
    Reputation: Shark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    8,613

    Tubeless Darryl

    Hey all,

    There have been a couple good posts about converting the fatty's to tubeless. After 3 flats at the Brown County Breakdown, and a couple the week before that, I am over tubes!

    I ordered some Q-tubes 24"x 2.1 - 2.3 presta , wasn't sure if they would be wide enough but they were cheap so I ordered 3 and took a chance.
    I pumped the tube up to probably 36" and let it sit overnight so it would stretch out (hopefully).

    I carefully cut the tube down the middle with scissors, then pulled my Larry off the front rim & got the old tube out of the way. I initially tried just the split tube & Larry, but it was a bit loose & could tell airing it up was going to be hit/miss.

    I had some left-over sill seal foam from when we built our house, so I used that, cut down to about 1.75" wide. Put in 2 layers on the inside of the rim, basically making the inside channel flush with where the bead sits, but still away from the edge where the bead needs to seal. Stuff is light as air & should hold up well. Couple pieces of tape to hold it in place.

    Installed the split tube again, & carefully put Larry where it needed to go. With some messing around you could probably get it to air up with a floor pump, but I had my air compressor handy so I used that. Aired up first try!
    It went so easy that I decided to deflate, break the bead, and add some Stan's sealant. In the future I will use the Stan's injector & pull the valve core to add more.

    I was surprised how hard I had to press to get the bead open, even with no air pressure inside, so that is a good thing. Only had about 6 Oz of sealant to stick in, picking up more tomorrow, so I put in what was left, re-seated the bead, & hit with air again.
    Sealed up nicely the second time! Nothing bubbling around the edges so looks to be a tight seal.



    It is raining (of course!), so no testing yet, but will report back once I try em out. Will be some good dirt riding singletrack, then once the snow flies I'll air em down & see if it still holds.

    Converting the rear Endo will be next!

    The profile of the Rolling Darryl rim looks like you might be able to do the "Gorilla tape" method. If for some reason the split tube decides to be a pain & let me down, that will be the next.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Tubeless Darryl-2011-10-18_14-39-24_434_1.jpg  

    Tubeless Darryl-2011-10-18_14-42-31_115_2.jpg  

    Tubeless Darryl-2011-10-18_14-42-55_227_3.jpg  

    Tubeless Darryl-2011-10-18_14-54-17_34_4.jpg  

    Tubeless Darryl-2011-10-18_15-46-53_669_5.jpg  


  2. #2
    Harmonius Wrench
    Reputation: Guitar Ted's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    8,254
    It will be interesting to hear how your, (and others), tubeless set ups hold up when pressures are low and so are the temperatures. Looking forward to the ride reports come December/January.
    Riden' an Smilin'
    Guitar Ted

    Blog
    RidingGravel.com

  3. #3
    aka bOb
    Reputation: bdundee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    8,812
    Thanks Shark!!!! Keep us posted.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    347
    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted View Post
    It will be interesting to hear how your, (and others), tubeless set ups hold up when pressures are low and so are the temperatures. Looking forward to the ride reports come December/January.
    +1 I subscribed, hoping to hear how this goes in snow...

  5. #5
    All fat, all the time.
    Reputation: Shark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    8,613
    It stopped raining enough to play in the yard a bit. Everything stayed on the rim and no burps. Hopefully get on the trails later in the week.

  6. #6
    How much does it weigh?
    Reputation: Borgschulze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,169
    I rode tubeless in the winter on my DH bike a few years ago...

    You will definitely notice the decrease in air pressure when it's cold out... I couldn't believe it.

    Felt like I had 10 psi in my tire instead of 25 psi.

  7. #7
    Hybrid Leftys aren't real Moderator
    Reputation: MendonCycleSmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    16,216
    Cool! Glad it set up as well for you as me.

    I wish I'd built it up for my Pug so I could have tested it, as it was, I never got to try it, well, not yet. My frame should be here soon, and using a 170mm hub, wasn't gonna fit in my Pug.

    Now i've changed courses rim wise, but I'm sure several of the customers I've sold Darryl wheels to will be very intrigued.....
    Cannondale Lefty and HeadShock servicing, wheel building, etc...


    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  8. #8
    All fat, all the time.
    Reputation: Shark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    8,613
    MCS,
    Yep I copied most of your ideas from that older thread (thanks!), works well so far with setup.

    I did the rear Endo today, aired up just as easily as the Larry with no Stan's in it. I borrowed the Stan's injector from my friend to try it out, that way you don't have to break the bead after getting it aired up initially. Just take out the valve core, thread on the tube, & inject-away! Worked better than I thought it would, then you can pump up the tire after with a floor pump since the bead is sealed.

    Again....raining today, so it'll be a day or two before I can test on the trails.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Tubeless Darryl-endo_stans_injector.jpg  


  9. #9
    Full Tilt Boogie
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,650
    Very interested in how this works. Thanks for posting.
    I sell bikes here. Check out the Blog here. Facebook.

  10. #10
    All fat, all the time.
    Reputation: Shark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    8,613
    SUCCESS!!!!!!!!

    Got in a nice 22 mile ride this morning at BCSP, all singletrack, some flowy, some rocks, some roots.

    I started the ride a few PSI higher than normal just to make sure things were going to stay together.....about 10 miles in all was well, so I dropped the pressure down to where I normally ride (around 10 or so I think?).

    No burps, no tire rolling off the rim, & best of all, NO FLATS

    I even mis-timed a rooty section I usually bunny hop over & slammed the back wheel into a root. It hit so hard I probably would have pinch flatted (a few weeks ago I did pinch flat in this same spot!). I was very surprised that it held pressure, no burp & no flat.

    Looking forward to the snow & we'll see if it holds up to that test. This weekend we're going to Pisgah so that should be fun with the fatty

    After messing with this, I think the ultimate might be just to use the Stan's injector & put in 4 - 6 Oz directly into a presta tube & not worrying about the split tube tubeless method. With the size of these tires, are we really going to notice any difference in "feel" with tube vs no tubes? I dunno.

    One thing to note, I ride this trail system alot, I usually average 9.5 mph. Today was 9.9 mph. Tubeless=faster? I dunno. Might have just been having a good day lol.

  11. #11
    Harmonius Wrench
    Reputation: Guitar Ted's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    8,254
    Quote Originally Posted by Shark View Post
    SUCCESS!!!!!!!!
    ...........Looking forward to the snow & we'll see if it holds up to that test.
    To my mind, the cold weather performance is what will truly define "success" for tubeless on this category of tire/bike.

    That said, it is a very encouraging report. Thanks!
    Riden' an Smilin'
    Guitar Ted

    Blog
    RidingGravel.com

  12. #12
    Hybrid Leftys aren't real Moderator
    Reputation: MendonCycleSmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    16,216
    Sweet! Stoked that it worked thus far.

    So, concerns over cold weather riding? Like what? I, and most of my group, run tubeless year round without issue, but 26 and 29, Stans rims, one or two ghetto set ups.

    I'll be running my Uma's tubeless in the cold any day now, but I can't see how this version would be affected by weather any more than any other set up, unless we're talking about the uber low pressures for snow riding being a factor...
    Cannondale Lefty and HeadShock servicing, wheel building, etc...


    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  13. #13
    Compulsive Bike Builder
    Reputation: DirtDad's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    1,512
    So you are using it with the split tube between the bead and the rim?
    Disclaimer: ComCycle USA

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bighit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    2,498
    Golf clap.
    2013 mongoose Fat bike
    2012 Moonlander.

    http://undergroundvelo.proboards.com/

  15. #15
    Harmonius Wrench
    Reputation: Guitar Ted's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    8,254
    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    I can't see how this version would be affected by weather any more than any other set up, unless we're talking about the uber low pressures for snow riding being a factor...
    Yeah.....I thought that was kind of obvious.

    I assumed most knew tubeless stuff worked in winter with 26 and 29 inch wheeled bikes, but we're talking 5psi or less, which is a far cry from anything I have any experience or knowledge about with bicycles.

    That's why I'm taking the wait and see approach with regard to this.
    Riden' an Smilin'
    Guitar Ted

    Blog
    RidingGravel.com

  16. #16
    Hybrid Leftys aren't real Moderator
    Reputation: MendonCycleSmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    16,216
    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted View Post
    Yeah.....I thought that was kind of obvious.

    I assumed most knew tubeless stuff worked in winter with 26 and 29 inch wheeled bikes, but we're talking 5psi or less, which is a far cry from anything I have any experience or knowledge about with bicycles.

    That's why I'm taking the wait and see approach with regard to this.
    Nothing is very obvious to me, it's a personal problem

    FWIW, I have a number of buddies running split tube ghetto all year long, and that works, so I'm guessing this will work too.

    It's not like the Uma tubeless rims have mechanical bead locks or anything, and they work fine according to Greg and company. The tube wrapping around the bead should give nice malleable purchase for the tire bead to help keep it in place. I'd guess that the new folders wouldn't be a good use here though.

    Just me thinking out loud.....
    Cannondale Lefty and HeadShock servicing, wheel building, etc...


    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  17. #17
    All fat, all the time.
    Reputation: Shark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    8,613
    The extreme low pressures are what worry me a well, not the cold temps.

  18. #18
    All fat, all the time.
    Reputation: Shark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    8,613
    Quote Originally Posted by DirtDad View Post
    So you are using it with the split tube between the bead and the rim?
    Yes that is how the split tube method works with ghetto tubeless.

  19. #19
    don't fear the barleywine
    Reputation: Moe's Tavern's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    87
    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    FWIW, I have a number of buddies running split tube ghetto all year long, and that works, so I'm guessing this will work too. .
    I assume your buddies are running split tube ghetto FATTIES, right? Just making sure they're fat.

    I've been running a set of tubeless Darryls, then added a Nate, and it's been all summer on sand and single track at about 8psi.

    I hope to go lower pressue, so my plan is to (thru capillary action!!!) adhere the tire to the split tube with some flexible cyanoacrylate.

    That's the plan, anyway. Then we'll hit the snow when December comes around. (Caffelatex will be the sealant unless I come across some info that says it's the suck in the freeze. Come to think of it, I should put some in the freezer to see how it reacts. brb.)

  20. #20
    Hybrid Leftys aren't real Moderator
    Reputation: MendonCycleSmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    16,216
    Quote Originally Posted by Moe's Tavern View Post
    I assume your buddies are running split tube ghetto FATTIES, right? Just making sure they're fat.
    No sorry, I was referring to non fat set ups.

    The only issue I've run into with Caffe Latex is the CO2 problem. Use it and end up with big rubber hot dogs in your tire.

    I used it for a while, but went back to Stans when I found it did nothing better, and was pricier, but it did work just fine in cold weather, say, down to 0 F or so....
    Cannondale Lefty and HeadShock servicing, wheel building, etc...


    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    2,263
    Can someone test the low pressure now? That way if it doesn't work you're not stuck in the cold. And the rest of us know if it will work before we even get our wheels setup.

  22. #22
    All fat, all the time.
    Reputation: Shark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    8,613
    Quote Originally Posted by sryanak View Post
    Can someone test the low pressure now? That way if it doesn't work you're not stuck in the cold. And the rest of us know if it will work before we even get our wheels setup.
    For a dollar, no prob! lol.

    If I have time this week I'll try it out in the grass, lower down to sand/snow pressure aka bulging & squishing like crazy & ride around for a while.

  23. #23
    aka bOb
    Reputation: bdundee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    8,812
    Quote Originally Posted by Shark View Post
    For a dollar, no prob! lol.

    If I have time this week I'll try it out in the grass, lower down to sand/snow pressure aka bulging & squishing like crazy & ride around for a while.
    Sold what's your paypal!! Thanks for your work on this.

  24. #24
    Really I am that slow
    Reputation: SlowerThenSnot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    3,777
    nice way to build up the center
    Read my BLOG!

    just a guy who loves bikes and exploring

  25. #25
    don't fear the barleywine
    Reputation: Moe's Tavern's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    87
    Quote Originally Posted by Shark View Post
    I borrowed the Stan's injector from my friend to try it out, that way you don't have to break the bead after getting it aired up initially. Just take out the valve core, thread on the tube, & inject-away!
    I agree. This is definitely the way to do it. With the foam, you basically get one chance to get the beads seated, cuz after inflating, the foam compresses and doesn't come back to its original thickness. This has probably been covered already but thought it was worth mentioning for the others. Also, you were lucky enough to have a friend with a stan's injector, but if not, save your money and get a squeeze bottle and a tight fitting piece of tube.

  26. #26
    Hybrid Leftys aren't real Moderator
    Reputation: MendonCycleSmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    16,216
    Quote Originally Posted by Moe's Tavern View Post
    With the foam, you basically get one chance to get the beads seated, cuz after inflating, the foam compresses and doesn't come back to its original thickness.
    Having not actually played with mine, I didn't know that,so thanks for pointing it out!

    On the injector thing, thought they were cool, but after using it for a while, it's a PITA. You need to fully clean it each time, or it seizes up and self destructs. I just use the "needle" ti that comes with the sealant bottle, cut it for a snug fit on the valve, slide it on, and squeeze away....
    Cannondale Lefty and HeadShock servicing, wheel building, etc...


    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  27. #27
    vik
    vik is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    105
    I may give this a shot when I rebuild my Pugs. Just to confirm I got everything straight if I'm working with DH Large Marges and Skinny Larrys...

    For 1 wheel I need:

    - 24" x 2.1-2.3" presta tube with removable core
    - 10 oz of Stan's
    - squirt bottle and tube
    - access to an air compressor

    The process is:

    - inflate tube overnight to stretch it out
    - cut tube down middle
    - place into rim [possibly use foam to build up center area if needed]
    - install tire with split tube on outside of tire bead
    - use compressor to seat tire bead
    - remove valve core and inject Stan's
    - replace core and reinstall

    Will a 26" MTB tube work or is a 24" tube better for a snug fit?

    Sorry if this post is stating the obvious. I've never had a tubeless setup, but given the weight of a Surly fat tube and the hassle changing a flat on my Pugs it seems worthwhile giving this a try.
    safe riding,

    Vik
    www.thelazyrando.com

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation: slimhazy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    300
    Quote Originally Posted by vik View Post
    Skinny Larrys...
    Ha ha, "Skinny Larry"...

    Seriously though, I may give this a try myself on the Fat Front I'm putting together for my KM. That BFL is heavy enough (couldn't make myself wait for the aramid bead) so ditching the Toob would be nice...

  29. #29
    Hybrid Leftys aren't real Moderator
    Reputation: MendonCycleSmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    16,216
    Quote Originally Posted by vik View Post
    I may give this a shot when I rebuild my Pugs. Just to confirm I got everything straight if I'm working with DH Large Marges and Skinny Larrys...

    For 1 wheel I need:

    - 24" x 2.1-2.3" presta tube with removable core
    - 10 oz of Stan's
    - squirt bottle and tube
    - access to an air compressor

    The process is:

    - inflate tube overnight to stretch it out
    - cut tube down middle
    - place into rim [possibly use foam to build up center area if needed]
    - install tire with split tube on outside of tire bead
    - use compressor to seat tire bead
    - remove valve core and inject Stan's
    - replace core and reinstall

    Will a 26" MTB tube work or is a 24" tube better for a snug fit?

    Sorry if this post is stating the obvious. I've never had a tubeless setup, but given the weight of a Surly fat tube and the hassle changing a flat on my Pugs it seems worthwhile giving this a try.
    Pretty much, except I wouldn't bother with pre stretching the tube. I put the Stans into the tire first, but you can do it that way too. The liquid lubes the beads a bit, but serves no other purpose at that point.

    I found the foam essential with the Darryl, the double walled LM may not require it.

    I'd go 24" for sure. I do split tube ghetto for 29er wheels with a 20" tube. Smaller tubes equal less weight, doesn't matter how thin they stretch. No super wide DH tires in 20" hence the 24, as I needed the extra width...
    Cannondale Lefty and HeadShock servicing, wheel building, etc...


    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation: vikb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    14,214
    Thanks for the tips and for posting this info in the first place. It will be interesting!

    I suppose a CO2 cartridge isn't enough volume to handle the bead seating phase? Would a gas station air hose work or do I need to find someone with a compressed air tank?
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  31. #31
    Hybrid Leftys aren't real Moderator
    Reputation: MendonCycleSmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    16,216
    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I suppose a CO2 cartridge isn't enough volume to handle the bead seating phase? Would a gas station air hose work or do I need to find someone with a compressed air tank?
    I spoke with the Genuine Innovations guys this year at I bike, and they said the only thing that would come close as far as filling post flat, is one of the "Big Air" canisters, so I'm pretty certain that yes, you'll want a compressor or an air tank.

    These do seat up pretty well all things considered, but you still need that punch, just on a massive scale!
    Cannondale Lefty and HeadShock servicing, wheel building, etc...


    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation: vikb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    14,214
    I imagine the techs at my local tire shop should find what I am doing suitably hilarious to give me 5 mins with their air tank...
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  33. #33
    Hybrid Leftys aren't real Moderator
    Reputation: MendonCycleSmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    16,216
    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I imagine the techs at my local tire shop should find what I am doing suitably hilarious to give me 5 mins with their air tank...
    Word.

    Then want it for themselves.....



    Cannondale Lefty and HeadShock servicing, wheel building, etc...


    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation: vikb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    14,214
    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Word.

    Then want it for themselves.....



    I go to Mexico most winters kiteboarding. If I had a trailer full of Pugsleys and a credit card machine I could sell out every time.

    People don't "get" Fatbikes until they see them in action...
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  35. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    1,988
    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Thanks for the tips and for posting this info in the first place. It will be interesting!

    I suppose a CO2 cartridge isn't enough volume to handle the bead seating phase? Would a gas station air hose work or do I need to find someone with a compressed air tank?
    There are also portable compressed air tanks relatively cheap.
    5 Gallon Portable Air Tank
    You could fill it up at your gas station and fiddle with the tires in the comfort of your own shop.

  36. #36
    Hybrid Leftys aren't real Moderator
    Reputation: MendonCycleSmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    16,216
    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I go to Mexico most winters kiteboarding. If I had a trailer full of Pugsleys and a credit card machine I could sell out every time.

    People don't "get" Fatbikes until they see them in action...
    You know? Funny you mention that. A buddy of mine goes to the some Caribbean island every winter, and has said the exact same thing. Always talking about boxing his up to bring with him too.

    If I were a wealthy person (instead I own a bike shop...) I'd seriously look into hitting up all these eco resorts and sell them on the idea of a fleet (rental or loaner) for their customers and staff......
    Cannondale Lefty and HeadShock servicing, wheel building, etc...


    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  37. #37
    mtbr member
    Reputation: vikb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    14,214
    I got 18 oz of Stans no problem, but the 24" presta MTB tubes with removable cores are proving elusive. I can get 26" tubes with removable cores...other than the extra weight is there any downside?

    My other option is to buy online, but with shipping to Canada that's a hassle.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  38. #38
    All fat, all the time.
    Reputation: Shark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    8,613
    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I got 18 oz of Stans no problem, but the 24" presta MTB tubes with removable cores are proving elusive. I can get 26" tubes with removable cores...other than the extra weight is there any downside?

    My other option is to buy online, but with shipping to Canada that's a hassle.
    I could not find any local either, found them on amazon $3 each plus shipping. You could try 26" but they may be loose and a pain to deal with.

    Got a good 20 miles in today, so far so good!

  39. #39
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    327
    do schrader valves not fit in the Darryls? If so, you could just use schrader valves, which pretty much all have removable cores.

  40. #40
    vik
    vik is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    105
    Quote Originally Posted by coldbike View Post
    do schrader valves not fit in the Darryls? If so, you could just use schrader valves, which pretty much all have removable cores.
    I've got some older Large Marge DH rims which fit presta valves. No reason I couldn't drill them out for schrader if I can't find any presta tubes that will work.

    I've found a part number for schwalbe tubes that are 24" with removable presta valves so I'll see if my LBS can get 'em in for me.
    safe riding,

    Vik
    www.thelazyrando.com

  41. #41
    Hybrid Leftys aren't real Moderator
    Reputation: MendonCycleSmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    16,216
    Quote Originally Posted by Shark View Post
    IYou could try 26" but they may be loose and a pain to deal with.

    Got a good 20 miles in today, so far so good!
    What he said on the 26 question.

    So, 20 miles, at nice low pressures? And good climbing efforts to try and break the bead free? I may have a number of riding buddies clamoring for some conversions, sold about 6 pugs in the last month or two, and all those guys ride tubeless on their "svelte" bikes.....
    Cannondale Lefty and HeadShock servicing, wheel building, etc...


    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  42. #42
    PSYCHOLUST
    Reputation: scyule's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    484
    [QUOTE=Moe's Tavern;8570675]I assume your buddies are running split tube ghetto FATTIES, right? Just making sure they're fat.

    I've been running a set of tubeless Darryls, then added a Nate, and it's been all summer on sand and single track at about 8psi.

    I hope to go lower pressue, so my plan is to (thru capillary action!!!) adhere the tire to the split tube with some flexible cyanoacrylate.

    YES!, this was what I was thinking, actually I was thinking , perhaps, using a self vulcanizing rubber cement, ...... Actually GLUE the bead to the split tube.
    I typically run 6psi in snow and didn't think sealant would be enough to keep the tires beaded,
    I have two 24"X 2.7 tubes on order for the job

    I'm definately going to cheack out the flexible cyanoacrylate.
    Thanks for the URL

  43. #43
    PSYCHOLUST
    Reputation: scyule's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    484
    Quote Originally Posted by coldbike View Post
    do schrader valves not fit in the Darryls? If so, you could just use schrader valves, which pretty much all have removable cores.
    Here we go........

    Even though my plan is to GLUE the bead to the split tube ( 6psi) I am going to use shrader valve 24" tubes incase I ever need to add slime or Stans to cure a small leak.

    Historically the DOWNSIDE of drilling a rim to run shraders was the larger hole weakening the rim ,, but as we are talking about 80mm rims and not 22mm rims I don't see this minor modification being an issue

  44. #44
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    1,042
    24" Presta tubes with removable cores are available from QBP. I think they may even have 20" available as well.

  45. #45
    mtbr member
    Reputation: vikb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    14,214
    Quote Originally Posted by Andy FitzGibbon View Post
    24" Presta tubes with removable cores are available from QBP. I think they may even have 20" available as well.
    I've ordered 3 tubes in to my LBS. My Skinny Larrys are new so I've decided to mount them with tubes today and let them stretch out so the beads seat more easily when I go to mount them tubeless.

    I've got a 2 month trip to Baja happening starting end of Nov and my Pugs won't be back from the powder coaters for a week+ so I'll tackle the tubeless upgrade early in 2012 when I get back from Mexico.

    Since I have the Stans and I've always wanted to try tubeless I'm going to get the rim strips I need for my FS MTB and do it first. I can ride that all Nov and see what I think.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  46. #46
    Wandering not Lost
    Reputation: BThor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    632
    I just set my larry and endo up tubeless following this same process. Here in TeJaS the issues are more related to thorns, and we do not get much snow. Thus the concerns of the uber low pressures are not an issue.

  47. #47
    All fat, all the time.
    Reputation: Shark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    8,613
    Quote Originally Posted by BThor View Post
    I just set my larry and endo up tubeless following this same process. Here in TeJaS the issues are more related to thorns, and we do not get much snow. Thus the concerns of the uber low pressures are not an issue.
    Glad it worked out for you!

    Mine has still been hassle-free (& flat-free!).....shouldn't be long now until the snow hits & pressure will drop....

  48. #48
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    24
    Guys, thanks for the info. Just curious as to what brand 24" MTB tube with removable core you went with out of QBP? I could do a search, but am lazy. Thanks!

  49. #49
    Hybrid Leftys aren't real Moderator
    Reputation: MendonCycleSmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    16,216
    Quote Originally Posted by rinker View Post
    guys, thanks for the info. Just curious as to what brand 24" mtb tube with removable core you went with out of qbp? I could do a search, but am lazy. Thanks!
    qbp #tu5740
    Cannondale Lefty and HeadShock servicing, wheel building, etc...


    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  50. #50
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    599
    Is there a reason to stick to PV tubes for the split tube part of the ghetto tubeless? It seems that finding 24" tubes with removable valve cores might be problematic. I found QBP QTubes TU6240 (PV). TU5740 are SV. I realize most fat rims come drilled for PV so I'd have to bore them out - not really a big issue I think.


    Also - the sill seal foam that the OP used - is that just the foam membrane tape you find at a home centre? Is this only required for drilled out rims like Darryls? I have GFS rims and have not drilled them out. I assume I might still want a healthy layer of gorilla tape as a rim strip to seal the nipple holes - correct? If I run that layer first, does the sill seal foam do anything really for a non-drilled rim?
    Last edited by SRALPH; 11-24-2011 at 09:02 AM. Reason: typo

  51. #51
    All fat, all the time.
    Reputation: Shark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    8,613
    The foam is only in there so the tire bead sits tight and is able to be aired up easily. It was too loose without the foam layers and would not seat the bead. Might be better on other rims not sure, but the foam weighs next to nothing so I'm not concerned with having it in there.

  52. #52
    don't fear the barleywine
    Reputation: Moe's Tavern's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    87
    Quote Originally Posted by SRALPH View Post
    Is there a reason to stick to PV tubes for the split tube part of the ghetto tubeless? It seems that finding 24" tubes with removable valve cores might be problematic. I found QBP QTubes TU6240 (PV). TU5740 are SV. I realize most fat rims come drilled for PV so I'd have to bore them out - not really a big issue I think.


    Also - the sill seal foam that the OP used - is that just the foam membrane tape you find at a home centre? Is this only required for drilled out rims like Darryls? I have GFS rims and have not drilled them out. I assume I might still want a healthy layer of gorilla tape as a rim strip to seal the nipple holes - correct? If I run that layer first, does the sill seal foam do anything really for a non-drilled rim?
    Edit: looks like Shark answered you already.

    I read your post twice and maybe itís my hangover, but Iím a tad confused. Hopefully I can help. The rim strip is the same as any other setup. I use wide ribbon. Then over that goes the foam. The foam is intended to increase the diameter of the wheel so the tire beads have a better seal. This is ONLY to aid inflation. Thatís it. Once the tire is mounted and sealed, the foam is serving no purpose. BTW, the foam I used is from the UPS store. Comes in 12x12 sheets. I cut it into 3Ē strips and tape the ends with electrical tape. A double wrap around the wheel weighs 12 grams. Over the foam goes the split tube. I highly recommend Schrader valves for ease of injecting sealant. If your rim is drilled for presta, just drill out for Schrader. No big. I actually remove the entire valve from the tube and use aluminum valves (designed for auto applications, I linked to them a few months back. Search 949).


  53. #53
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GTR2ebike's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    1,872
    I have an idea for setting up a rim tubeless and want to see what you guys think.
    I would do the split tube method but instead of using foam use another tube (not split), drill a hole across from the other valve for the tube valve. Pump up the tube a bit to help seat the tire bead, inject stans, inflate the tire, then deflate the tube or leave it slightly blown up. That should make it easy to seat the bead because you can put as much pressure as needed on it. It gets better... if you ever did get a flat you can just pump up the tube and continue your ride. I think this would be the ultimate set-up and no need to worry about flats when it's below freezing out.

    Only problem I can imagine would be you get a flat, when blowing up the tube what will the split tube do? I'd hope it'd just stretch but could it pull the tire off the bead?

    I ordered some Qtubes to test it out with my darryl's, they should be here early next week.

    What do you think?

  54. #54
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dirtyjack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    982
    Inspired by this thread, I have converted my Larry/Marge front tire to tubeless. The rimstrip is Tyvek tape, and it looked good and tight so I left it in place. I needed to add a piece of tube as a gasket for the Stan's valve to get it to seal. The biggest leak was the weld spot on the rim, but it seems to be sealed by the Stans. Test ride tomorrow. If all goes well, I'll do the rear next.

    I've dropped a little over a pound off the weight after adding in 2 cups of stans.
    Last edited by dirtyjack; 12-09-2011 at 12:39 PM.
    Pivot Switchblade
    SantaCruz Tallboy C
    SantaCruz Solo C
    Specialized Fatboy
    Trek Madone 8
    Lemond Zurich

  55. #55
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    1,133
    Tubeless can be a big pain in the rear. I've found that the most simple and maintenance free solution is to keep the tubes and use a tire sealant called True Goo.

  56. #56
    Hybrid Leftys aren't real Moderator
    Reputation: MendonCycleSmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    16,216
    Quote Originally Posted by GTR2ebike View Post
    I have an idea for setting up a rim tubeless and want to see what you guys think.
    Interesting.

    Can't say what the tube would do to the split one,might be fine, tubes do stretch a lot.

    Best I can say is try it. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. I spend plenty of time screwing around on stuff that doesn't work out, and every now an then, it does, which is always fun.

    I would note you're actually adding weight by doing this, over just a tube and rimstrip, but hey, if you like it, and it gives you a benefit? Good on ya.
    Cannondale Lefty and HeadShock servicing, wheel building, etc...


    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  57. #57
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dirtyjack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    982
    Quote Originally Posted by ultraspontane View Post
    Tubeless can be a big pain in the rear. I've found that the most simple and maintenance free solution is to keep the tubes and use a tire sealant called True Goo.
    Or tubeless can be a painless solution and a great way to drop a couple pounds of rotating weight.
    Pivot Switchblade
    SantaCruz Tallboy C
    SantaCruz Solo C
    Specialized Fatboy
    Trek Madone 8
    Lemond Zurich

  58. #58
    Hybrid Leftys aren't real Moderator
    Reputation: MendonCycleSmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    16,216
    Quote Originally Posted by ultraspontane View Post
    Tubeless can be a big pain in the rear. I've found that the most simple and maintenance free solution is to keep the tubes and use a tire sealant called True Goo.
    Thanks for sharing. In my experience, the PITA factor has been really, really low, (I find tubes to be a bigger one actually) and the 1000+ grams lost in rotational weight is a huge benefit. Not to mention a much more supple feeling tire which seems to almost wrap itself around roots etc, plus no pinch flats?

    Several riders on here have been running tubeless for a year or more with the Uma's, no issues. I'm only at a few months now, but I won't be switching back any time soon.

    YMMV.
    Cannondale Lefty and HeadShock servicing, wheel building, etc...


    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  59. #59
    aka bOb
    Reputation: bdundee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    8,812

    Bonking ... not feelin' well

    Quote Originally Posted by ultraspontane View Post
    Tubeless can be a big pain in the rear. I've found that the most simple and maintenance free solution is to keep the tubes and use a tire sealant called True Goo.
    I've been on tubeless for 3 years and its the best thing I have ever done besides going fat.

  60. #60
    mtbr member
    Reputation: campykid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    286

    Am I missing something?

    I'm wondering if going tubeless actually saves weight. A q-tubes 26x2.75 tube weights 282 grams. A q-tubes 24x2.3 tube weighs 188gm. 2 Scoops of Stans weighs about 120 gm. Seems like it's a wash; is my math correct?

  61. #61
    mtbr member
    Reputation: campykid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    286

    Am I missing something?

    I'm wondering if going tubeless actually saves weight. A q-tubes 26x2.75 tube weights 282 grams. A q-tubes 24x2.3 tube weighs 188gm. 2 Scoops of Stans weighs about 120 gm. Seems like it's a wash; is my math correct?

  62. #62
    Hybrid Leftys aren't real Moderator
    Reputation: MendonCycleSmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    16,216
    Quote Originally Posted by campykid View Post
    I'm wondering if going tubeless actually saves weight. A q-tubes 26x2.75 tube weights 282 grams. A q-tubes 24x2.3 tube weighs 188gm. 2 Scoops of Stans weighs about 120 gm. Seems like it's a wash; is my math correct?
    You're not wrong with your numbers, but it depends how you apply them.

    Running a skinnier tube, as a tube? Yes, you're reducing weight over the 570 gm Surly tube, and some folks do run them, but I found they created soft spots in my tires when I tried it, and would "grunt" at those spots, apparently some rub was going on during compression at those spots as when I took the tire off, it was filled with rubber shavings sloughed off the tube.

    If you're meaning in a split tube set up, yes, that number has to be added but you also lose a chunk when you cut off the strips outside the tire once set up.

    So, going from a Surly tube, to an Uma tubeless set up, is a dramatic drop. Skinny tubes overinflated, less loss. Split tube adds a touch more weight thanthe Uma, but, the Darryl weighs around 200 grams less than the Uma, so around we go again!

    Bottom line though, it does feel lighter, climbs better offers more traction, is more supple, reduced flat concerns via puncture or pinch, basically, all the benefits they offer in a 29 or 26" tubeless set up.


    Cannondale Lefty and HeadShock servicing, wheel building, etc...


    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  63. #63
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GTR2ebike's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    1,872
    Wadester brought up a good point that my tube would have to go to one side of the split tube valve. I realized that'll most likely pull the split tube out from between the rim and the tire. I'm still going to try it when my 24in tubes come in just to see what happens.

  64. #64
    Dr Gadget is IN
    Reputation: wadester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    2,368
    Quote Originally Posted by campykid View Post
    I'm wondering if going tubeless actually saves weight. A q-tubes 26x2.75 tube weights 282 grams. A q-tubes 24x2.3 tube weighs 188gm. 2 Scoops of Stans weighs about 120 gm. Seems like it's a wash; is my math correct?
    Back in the skinny tire world, it's not really about weight savings - it's about performance. Because you're right, that between rim strip/etc and sealant - there's not much or any weight saved. But - the traction difference and handling difference, especially in curves, are noticeable improvements. Also, the sealant is a moving mass - which you don't have to accelerate with the wheel. It does catch up, but it takes a bit. Kinda like those spinner rims. I note that this moving mass also dynamically balances your wheel, but that only matters at higher speeds.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  65. #65
    Hybrid Leftys aren't real Moderator
    Reputation: MendonCycleSmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    16,216
    Quote Originally Posted by wadester View Post
    it's about performance.
    Sorry man, can't resist.....

    Happy weekend all.

    Performance - YouTube
    Cannondale Lefty and HeadShock servicing, wheel building, etc...


    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  66. #66
    All fat, all the time.
    Reputation: Shark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    8,613
    Update, so far, no flats!

    That is worth it, not worried about weight savings!

  67. #67
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    1,133
    For tubeless folks, what do you bring with you on long ride/tours for field repairs? I've read horror stories about seals failing and sealant getting everywhere. I suppose you'd just bring a regular tube along and use that if you have a system failure?

  68. #68
    Compulsive Bike Builder
    Reputation: DirtDad's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    1,512
    No horror. I bring:







    Which I would bring anyway if I was using tubes.
    Disclaimer: ComCycle USA

  69. #69
    Hybrid Leftys aren't real Moderator
    Reputation: MendonCycleSmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    16,216
    Quote Originally Posted by ultraspontane View Post
    For tubeless folks, what do you bring with you on long ride/tours for field repairs? I've read horror stories about seals failing and sealant getting everywhere. I suppose you'd just bring a regular tube along and use that if you have a system failure?
    A tube.
    Cannondale Lefty and HeadShock servicing, wheel building, etc...


    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  70. #70
    Dr Gadget is IN
    Reputation: wadester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    2,368
    Quote Originally Posted by ultraspontane View Post
    For tubeless folks, what do you bring with you on long ride/tours for field repairs? I've read horror stories about seals failing and sealant getting everywhere. I suppose you'd just bring a regular tube along and use that if you have a system failure?
    I carry a spare tube in a ziplock - which keeps it from getting a hole rubbed in it over the long time I don't need it. I also carry a bandana/rag. The only way the tubeless dies is from the sealant completely drying out (and usually you can get home by keeping it pumped up) or if you get massive damage - like a sidewall rip.

    Take the tube out of the bag, wipe out any remaining sealant with the rag and pop it into the ziplock bag along with rimstrip/split tube etc. I spend more time making sure there aren't thorns left in the tire to kill the tube than dealing with sealant.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  71. #71
    Harmonius Wrench
    Reputation: Guitar Ted's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    8,254
    Quote Originally Posted by ultraspontane View Post
    For tubeless folks, what do you bring with you on long ride/tours for field repairs? I've read horror stories about seals failing and sealant getting everywhere. I suppose you'd just bring a regular tube along and use that if you have a system failure?
    I've had about every kind of "fail" you can have with a tubeless set up. So.....if it were me on a fat bike and I was riding out in the sticks, I'd bring all of the things already mentioned plus a spare tubeless valve stem. Sometimes the rest was all good, but the valve failed. (Has happened to me twice)

    Of course, you might just stick a tube in anyway, since re-seating a bead might be impossible in the wilds. I just thought I'd mention that the tubeless valve stems can go bad.
    Riden' an Smilin'
    Guitar Ted

    Blog
    RidingGravel.com

  72. #72
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    347
    Quote Originally Posted by GTR2ebike View Post
    Wadester brought up a good point that my tube would have to go to one side of the split tube valve. I realized that'll most likely pull the split tube out from between the rim and the tire. I'm still going to try it when my 24in tubes come in just to see what happens.
    I have been rolling your idea around in my head for a bit and have a suggestion.

    split the first tube as you were going to.

    mark the center of it 180į from the split tube valve and punch a hole for the complete tube's valve to go through.

    using a patch kit glue, glue the "inflation tube" to the split tube.

    Allow to dry, and install the pair (now one) in place.

    Think it might work...well...

    you could even use the q-tubes "superlight" 24" and/or 26" tubes which have claimed weights of 80 and 126g...

    Hell... it sounds so good *I* might have to try it out...

    g

  73. #73
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GTR2ebike's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    1,872
    That'd be a good way to build the bead up but I think the glue would rip if you tried inflating the tube if you actually got a flat. It would rip either from stress if you didn't unscrew the split tube presta from the rim and if you did unscrew it, I think the valve could pop it.

    I'm just going to run regular split tube on my darryls, but first I'm going to try with just a rim strip

  74. #74
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    347
    Quote Originally Posted by GTR2ebike View Post
    That'd be a good way to build the bead up but I think the glue would rip if you tried inflating the tube if you actually got a flat. It would rip either from stress if you didn't unscrew the split tube presta from the rim and if you did unscrew it, I think the valve could pop it.

    I'm just going to run regular split tube on my darryls, but first I'm going to try with just a rim strip
    I think you misunderstood.

    I just mean glue to reseal the split tube where the valve goes throught it... not all the way around the tube.

    And I doubt it would rip, just like when you patch a tube, it doesn't rip when you inflate it.

  75. #75
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GTR2ebike's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    1,872
    I get what your saying now, you mean have the other tube on top of the split tube. I was thinking under in my original post, so you could use it to help get the tire mounted.

    You could do it that way but i think that'd kill the point in tubeless. You'd be adding a place for the tire to leak air even if it was glued. But if it did go flat you could pump your other tube right up It's not for me I'm going to stick with a rim strip or split tube and carry a tube/pump encase I get a flat.

    It only gets down to single digits one or two days out of the year here and that's only for a few hours during those days. I'm not worried about changing a flat when it's 20 degrees but for guys who ride where it's -40 it might be worth it. Especially since no tubes sealant is only rated for -20.

  76. #76
    Dr Gadget is IN
    Reputation: wadester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    2,368
    Quote Originally Posted by GTR2ebike View Post
    Wadester brought up a good point that my tube would have to go to one side of the split tube valve..
    Actually, what I was trying to say was:
    1) Innertube on rim, with valve centered (original hole)
    2) Split tube offset, with valve near the bead (drill new hole) - just have to split the tube offset. This would let you run both with minimal interference.

    Quote Originally Posted by GTR2ebike View Post
    I get what your saying now, you mean have the other tube on top of the split tube. I was thinking under in my original post, so you could use it to help get the tire mounted.
    Gregclimbs is still talking about your "innertube on rim, split tube over" layout, but for centered valve stems and no offset - you pierce the innertube with your splittube valve, gluing that joint. I'm thinking there's too much force for just glue, and you'd need some mechanical seal too (threaded stem, nuts/washers).
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  77. #77
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GTR2ebike's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    1,872
    Wadester, Now it's clear. I thought you meant offset the tube to one side of the split tube valve. But offseting the split tube and valve (drilling the new hole offset would also keep the confusion down) that's definitely the way to do it. Good call.

  78. #78
    mtbr member
    Reputation: lamard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    176
    my friend and i are doing a tubeless project using some ATV tubeless valves and tarp tape. The tape is really sticky and when heated it shrinks to hold even tighter. I'm still waiting on my nate/BFL before i try this, but we are already into the -20 C so as soon as my tires come in i will be able to test it propa!
    your 29er may float over roots and rocks, but my superlight 26 just plain floats

  79. #79
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    1,133
    I read about someone who ran a Large Marge tubeless and he used a Darryl rim strip because it was wide enough to run bead to bead on a Large Marge. Apparently he was able to forgo the split tube with this method. Maybe those with a Darryl could take that same approach and use a Clown Shoe rim strip.

  80. #80
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GTR2ebike's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    1,872
    I will let you know by weds night, clown shoe rims strips showed up at my door today . I bought them with the intention of trying tho set the Darryl's up tubeless..

  81. #81
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GTR2ebike's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    1,872
    Here is a picture or clown shoe rim strips on darryl rims. If I put some 21 or 25mm no tubes tape on the side it could work. However the bead is so loose I'd be worried about it, it would be nice to have the extra material of a tube between the tire and rim.

  82. #82
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    1,133
    ^ the person I mentioned earlier also said that he used a high cfm compressor to seat the bead. The compressor inflates quickly, creating a pressure wave that pushes the beads out and seats them. With some selant, it might work.

  83. #83
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GTR2ebike's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    1,872
    Yes but his was a large marge with darrly strip. 65mm rim and 64mm rim strip, so that should help build up the bead a little. A darryl is 80 or 81mm and the clown shoe rim strip is 76mm.

    I have a 80 gallon compressor(15.1 cfm @ 90 psi), I will try to air them up in 2 hours.
    Edit: Tried for about 20 minutes to get it to air up with just the rim strip and it wasn't happening. It may work if I build up the center but it's not worth the trouble i'm just going to run them split tube when the tubes show up.
    Last edited by GTR2ebike; 12-13-2011 at 04:05 PM.

  84. #84
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dirtyjack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    982
    I've filled my front Larry tp 30 psi 3 times and it still isn't holding air. Last night I checked it in a cooler full of water, no leaks. This morning it's flat again. hmmmmm....
    Pivot Switchblade
    SantaCruz Tallboy C
    SantaCruz Solo C
    Specialized Fatboy
    Trek Madone 8
    Lemond Zurich

  85. #85
    All fat, all the time.
    Reputation: Shark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    8,613
    Quote Originally Posted by dirtyjack View Post
    I've filled my front Larry tp 30 psi 3 times and it still isn't holding air. Last night I checked it in a cooler full of water, no leaks. This morning it's flat again. hmmmmm....
    Have you tried riding it a bit? Sometimes that is all they need.

  86. #86
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dirtyjack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    982
    Quote Originally Posted by Shark View Post
    Have you tried riding it a bit? Sometimes that is all they need.
    I was thinking that. I haven't had the opportunity yet. Maybe this week.
    Pivot Switchblade
    SantaCruz Tallboy C
    SantaCruz Solo C
    Specialized Fatboy
    Trek Madone 8
    Lemond Zurich

  87. #87
    mtbr member
    Reputation: lamard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    176
    ya, riding it is a must to get the sealant to work it's way into all the tiny holes in the tire
    your 29er may float over roots and rocks, but my superlight 26 just plain floats

  88. #88
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    45
    anyone run any real low pressures yet 4-7psi range ?

  89. #89
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GTR2ebike's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    1,872
    Just set up mine. Split tube no foam, aired up easily with a strap around the tire.

  90. #90
    superluker
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    87
    Quote Originally Posted by GTR2ebike View Post
    Just set up mine. Split tube no foam, aired up easily with a strap around the tire.
    Did you keep the Clown Shoe rim strip? Are your RDs drilled? And 1 more question, what size tube.

    Thanks

  91. #91
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GTR2ebike's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    1,872
    Quote Originally Posted by taehome View Post
    Did you keep the Clown Shoe rim strip? Are your RDs drilled? And 1 more question, what size tube.

    Thanks
    I still have the clown shoe rim strips but didn't use them. They are not drilled, that shouldn't effect getting them to air up. I plan to drill them at a later date but need to find a local shop that can true them after or buy a stand. Q-tubes 24 2.1x2.3.

  92. #92
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dirtyjack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    982
    Quote Originally Posted by dirtyjack View Post
    I was thinking that. I haven't had the opportunity yet. Maybe this week.
    Threw some more air in it and laid it on its side where I saw a little stans on the sidewall. 24 hours and still holding!!!
    Pivot Switchblade
    SantaCruz Tallboy C
    SantaCruz Solo C
    Specialized Fatboy
    Trek Madone 8
    Lemond Zurich

  93. #93
    mtbr member
    Reputation: lamard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    176
    very initial testin but i have a BFL on a heavily drilled RD. held for a couple hours than rode on it for an hour at 8psi in -10C, didn't lose any pressure but we'll see what its at in the morning....
    your 29er may float over roots and rocks, but my superlight 26 just plain floats

  94. #94
    mtbr member
    Reputation: lamard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    176
    forgot to mention, i used a 4 layers of tarp tape, heated up so it shrinks and than a rubber atv valve. still holding air perfect, hasn't lost one pound of pressure in the last 24 hours and saved me just over 6 oz over an axiom dh tube. i'm gonna drop it to 6psi this week, eventhough we still don't have the amount of snow we usually have
    your 29er may float over roots and rocks, but my superlight 26 just plain floats

  95. #95
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by Shark View Post
    Have you tried riding it a bit? Sometimes that is all they need.
    Just rode a couple of hours on nates at 20, 15 and finally 7 psi with no problems using your recipe for tubeless bliss. By the way, just missed you on BC trail today, but followed your snow tracks

  96. #96
    i heart singletrack
    Reputation: mgersib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    1,553
    Quote Originally Posted by kinta View Post
    anyone run any real low pressures yet 4-7psi range ?
    I have been... No problems with Larry/Endo and Rolling Darryls at 5-7psi. Even on hard ground (no snow), I've been riding hard with 7psi with no problems.

    Edit (additional info): I'm not using the "cut tube" method. I taped the rim using Gorilla Tape, a method I have used successfully on skinnier tired bikes for years now. As mentioned above, it's working flawlessly. Sealant is my own mixture of Mold Builder latex and a proprietary carrier designed to not freeze at low temps. It works well.
    I like bikes

  97. #97
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    108
    Any update? Also did you use any foam under the gorilla tape?



    Quote Originally Posted by mgersib View Post
    I have been... No problems with Larry/Endo and Rolling Darryls at 5-7psi. Even on hard ground (no snow), I've been riding hard with 7psi with no problems.

    Edit (additional info): I'm not using the "cut tube" method. I taped the rim using Gorilla Tape, a method I have used successfully on skinnier tired bikes for years now. As mentioned above, it's working flawlessly. Sealant is my own mixture of Mold Builder latex and a proprietary carrier designed to not freeze at low temps. It works well.

  98. #98
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    87
    mgersib, I'm curious about this as well. Are you using gorilla tape in lieu of rim strips? How many layers of this are you putting on the rim? Can you share any more regarding your sealant mix? I love Stan's but it tends to freeze at Anchorage winter temps.

    I'm dreaming of rolling a Clownshoe/BFL tubeless setup...

  99. #99
    All fat, all the time.
    Reputation: Shark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    8,613
    Quote Originally Posted by dylvan View Post
    Just rode a couple of hours on nates at 20, 15 and finally 7 psi with no problems using your recipe for tubeless bliss. By the way, just missed you on BC trail today, but followed your snow tracks
    I saw some nate tracks out there last weekend too! We'll have to meet up for a ride if it ever snows again

  100. #100
    All fat, all the time.
    Reputation: Shark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    8,613
    I'm curious to try the gorilla tape method when my Husker Du's show up. It has worked well in the past on skinny rims, so maybe it will work with the big guys too. Probably have to throw a strap around it as someone mentioned before.

    The only downside to the split tube method is every time you swap tires you need to sacrifice another tube!

  101. #101
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GTR2ebike's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    1,872
    Quote Originally Posted by Shark View Post
    The only downside to the split tube method is every time you swap tires you need to sacrifice another tube!
    why?

  102. #102
    mtbr member
    Reputation: lamard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    176
    i had a bit of a piss off with my rear tubeless conversion. I've been running a BFL up front on a RD for a while now with just a couple of layers of tarp tape and an ATV valve with no pobs at all. Last week i went to set up my little larry on the rear and it was impossible! Earlier that day i had in flated a nate on a unlaced RD, just to see how it looked inflated, and i found it was pretty difficult to get on the rim so i decided to try that on 'my' rear rim for tubeless. When i tried in instal the nate of my rim it was completely effortless and fit quite loose. I was able to get it setup tubeless but it was a right pain. I rode it for a week or so with no issues, but than yesterday it went flat when i was out on a ride in -28C. The bead stayed on the rim, but i guess it slowly burped air until it had aboot 1 psi in it. Upon inspection of the tire i noticed there was a fair bit of stan's where the bead contacts the rim. I'm assuming that this rim is just a little off and that's why it's not holding the tubeless as well as the front..... sigh
    your 29er may float over roots and rocks, but my superlight 26 just plain floats

  103. #103
    All fat, all the time.
    Reputation: Shark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    8,613
    Quote Originally Posted by GTR2ebike View Post
    why?
    When you first mount the tire, the tube sticks out around the edges. Once I was happy it worked I trimmed the excess. Not sure how easy it would be to get things sealed without the wide tube overhanging the edges.

  104. #104
    i heart singletrack
    Reputation: mgersib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    1,553
    Quote Originally Posted by ultraspontane View Post
    ^ the person I mentioned earlier also said that he used a high cfm compressor to seat the bead. The compressor inflates quickly, creating a pressure wave that pushes the beads out and seats them. With some selant, it might work.
    Quote Originally Posted by blackflys64 View Post
    Any update? Also did you use any foam under the gorilla tape?
    I didn't use any foam tape under the Gorilla Tape, as it hasn't proven necessary. The small bead lips on the Rolling Darryl rims have proven sufficient to retain the beads even down to sub-5psi... Lower than I want to ride it, because it just gets too vague in the casing. I can't tell where the edge of the singletrack is at less than 5psi! It just disappears...
    I like bikes

  105. #105
    i heart singletrack
    Reputation: mgersib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    1,553
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeC AK View Post
    mgersib, I'm curious about this as well. Are you using gorilla tape in lieu of rim strips? How many layers of this are you putting on the rim? Can you share any more regarding your sealant mix? I love Stan's but it tends to freeze at Anchorage winter temps.

    I'm dreaming of rolling a Clownshoe/BFL tubeless setup...
    Thanks Mike - I am, in fact using a "tape method" as opposed to dedicated rim strips or cut up tubes. Based on my experience with 29-inch off road bicycle wheels and 700c cyclocross wheels, this has proven a reliable, repeatable method on a wide variety of rims over the past ten years.

    On the Rolling Darryl, I used three layers of Gorilla brand duct tape to seal each rim. I taped directly over the stock rim strip, and on rims with cutouts, this is probably a good idea too. Anyway, the first layer of tape butts against one side of the rim at the bead. The second goes against the opposite side. Then the third layer goes right down the middle. Take your time and make sure your surfaces are clean, dry and lube/solvent-free before taping.

    As for sealant, I use a homebrew mixture of Mold Builder liquid latex and windshield washer fluid that I've been using very successfully for at least 8 years since refining the mixture to where it's at today. Some folks think you need glitter or other stuff to seal up tubeless, but I've found that its all about the latex, and having a carrier that doesn't freeze in the cold (enter the ww fluid). For my fatbike, I just made about 2.5 times what I'd make for a 29"er, which turned out to be total overkill. I bet I will wear the rear Endo out before the sealant needs to be recharged!

    Mike, you could switch the carrier to one of the "green" anti-freezes on the market now, instead of ww fluid, which would undoubtedly give you a few degrees more insulation from freeze-up. That said, here in NE, I have ridden down to -10F without problem on a 29"er with much thinner tires.
    I like bikes

  106. #106
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GTR2ebike's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    1,872
    Quote Originally Posted by Shark View Post
    When you first mount the tire, the tube sticks out around the edges. Once I was happy it worked I trimmed the excess. Not sure how easy it would be to get things sealed without the wide tube overhanging the edges.
    You only need to sacrifice one each time if you trim it. Mine are untrimmed.

  107. #107
    All fat, all the time.
    Reputation: Shark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    8,613
    That is a good point I shouldn't have trimmed I guess heh

  108. #108
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    87
    mgersib, how much ww fluid are you mixing in? I assume not much?

  109. #109
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    531
    I'm like Mike and want to do this with a Clownshoe and a BFL. Has anyone done this to a Clownshoe yet? If I won't be swapping tires at all (the Clownshoe won't be seeing any dirt), and I want the most failproof system possible, have my pressures in the 5-7 psi range and only ride in the snow with the temps in the 0 to 30F range, would the ghetto split tube be the best way to do it?

    MikeC_AK, check this link over on the 29er forum for talk about the best tubeless brew:

    http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/be...ew-406115.html

  110. #110
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    41
    I saw somewhere on this forum of a wide roll of Stans Tape... Any one else see that? Obviously someone makes it for Stans we could see if they will do a 100mm roll for clownshoes.... thoughts?

  111. #111
    No Reputation!
    Reputation: Fastskiguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,716
    Thanks for leaving the ears floppy!

  112. #112
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dirtyjack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    982
    Quote Originally Posted by dirtyjack View Post
    I was thinking that. I haven't had the opportunity yet. Maybe this week.
    Took my tubeless larry out for the first time today. It was doing well for a couple miles, then ran flat. Oh well, it was a nice idea....
    Pivot Switchblade
    SantaCruz Tallboy C
    SantaCruz Solo C
    Specialized Fatboy
    Trek Madone 8
    Lemond Zurich

  113. #113
    All fat, all the time.
    Reputation: Shark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    8,613
    Quote Originally Posted by dirtyjack View Post
    Took my tubeless larry out for the first time today. It was doing well for a couple miles, then ran flat. Oh well, it was a nice idea....
    That's too bad it didn't work out for you!

    My larry and endo were perfect no issues until I took them off to try new tires.

  114. #114
    i heart singletrack
    Reputation: mgersib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    1,553
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterOMayhem View Post
    I saw somewhere on this forum of a wide roll of Stans Tape... Any one else see that? Obviously someone makes it for Stans we could see if they will do a 100mm roll for clownshoes.... thoughts?
    FWIW, I've been using Gorilla-brand duct tape in-lieu of Stan's tape with great results for the past year on both my 29"ers and fatbikes with 100% success.
    I like bikes

  115. #115
    Dr Gadget is IN
    Reputation: wadester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    2,368
    Quote Originally Posted by mgersib View Post
    FWIW, I've been using Gorilla-brand duct tape in-lieu of Stan's tape with great results for the past year on both my 29"ers and fatbikes with 100% success.
    Yes, this is good stuff. Also, now comes in Tough&Wide for all your fatbike needs. 2 7/8" (76.2mm) width. 1" wider than regular.

    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  116. #116
    i heart singletrack
    Reputation: mgersib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    1,553
    Quote Originally Posted by wadester View Post
    Yes, this is good stuff. Also, now comes in Tough&Wide for all your fatbike needs. 2 7/8" (76.2mm) width. 1" wider than regular.

    That's the stuff... For all your getto tubeless conversion needs!
    I like bikes

  117. #117
    Smash Mode: ON
    Reputation: Dustin Mustangs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    300
    How much sealant are you guys using for a larry/endo tire? Getting a little worn out on puncture flats and looking to give this a go.
    Whatever floats your bike, dude

  118. #118
    i heart singletrack
    Reputation: mgersib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    1,553
    Quote Originally Posted by Dustin Mustangs View Post
    How much sealant are you guys using for a larry/endo tire? Getting a little worn out on puncture flats and looking to give this a go.
    I didn't measure it exactly, but probably about 6oz/tire, which is likely more than I need, but I wanted to have a little extra in there in case it burped some out during inflation (which it didn't on either wheel).
    I like bikes

  119. #119
    All fat, all the time.
    Reputation: Shark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    8,613
    I think I had about 4 scoops in mine? When I pulled them off to swap on the husker du's, there was alot in there, next time around I'll probably only do 2 or 3 scoops.

  120. #120
    don't fear the barleywine
    Reputation: Moe's Tavern's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    87
    150ml per tire.

    I still hear it sloshing around, and I've lost a little bit due to burping during a 7psi rocky downhill ...

  121. #121
    Smash Mode: ON
    Reputation: Dustin Mustangs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    300
    So I converted my front with gorilla tape and am finding sealant around the bead on one side after rides. I also loose about a pound or two of pressure per hour of ride time. This is starting with the pressure around 7 psi or so. When the bike sits it holds pressure just fine, no loss even after a week or more and no sign of sealant.

    Is this normal? If not, should I break the bead, clean it, and re-seat it? Is it possible my rim or tire could have a flaw that is causing this? I can't tell if it is happening in the same place because the sealant makes it most if not all the way around the rim.
    Whatever floats your bike, dude

  122. #122
    All fat, all the time.
    Reputation: Shark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    8,613
    I taped my rims with gorilla tape and the husker du's aired up nicely. I was running tubes since I got em, but had a flat yesterday so was the perfect time to try again.
    So far just around the yard everything is holding nicely.
    Also, the harbor freight plastic squeeze bottle and clear tubing works awesome to inject stans through the valve once the beads are seated. No mess!!

  123. #123
    Smash Mode: ON
    Reputation: Dustin Mustangs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    300
    Funny you just bumped this. I finally hit my wall with fat tubeless on the trail tonight. I re-seated my front and am still leaking sealant on the brake side when riding. I tried the rear, to see if I had a bad rim or tire in the front, and it is even worse. I had to stop my maiden ride on the rear tonight to tube up because it was leaking so fast. Same as the front, break side bead leaking sealant and air like crazy but only when riding. Holds pressure fine and doesn't bubble soap when parked. Not sure what is going on but I am done messing with sealant for a while.

    Whatever floats your bike, dude

  124. #124
    mtbr lurker
    Reputation: Drew69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    145
    This might be a retarded question but salt water submersion shouldn't have an effect on ghetto tubeless should it?

  125. #125
    All fat, all the time.
    Reputation: Shark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    8,613
    Got in 20 miles of singletrack today. Front held up perfectly. Rear was leaking around the bead only on one side. Pumped it up twice in the first 15 mins of the ride and was ready to put in a tube, then it sealed and was fine the test of the ride.

  126. #126
    All fat, all the time.
    Reputation: Shark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    8,613
    Here are a couple pics.

    FYI, if you seat the beads with a compressor and make sure you use a valve with a removable core, you can make your own "Stan's injector" with a plastic squirt bottle from Harbor Freight ($4 for a 3-pack) and a length of clear plastic tubing 5/16"OD, 3/16" ID ($0.25 or so from Lowes). Way faster and cheaper then the stans injector.

    Gorilla tape 1 layer on left & right side right up to edge of rim where is starts to go vertical but not up the edges, then 1 more strip down the middle. Cut small hole for valve. I used old tube with a bunch of patches to cut valve out of.

    After the small amount of leaking I had on rear wheel, I would be tempted to do 2 layers left & right to build it up a bit more.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Tubeless Darryl-tubeless_injector.jpg  

    Tubeless Darryl-gorillatape.jpg  


  127. #127
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    33
    Thanks for the information. Would tubeless be a good idea for touring?

  128. #128
    i heart singletrack
    Reputation: mgersib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    1,553
    Quote Originally Posted by bicyclerust View Post
    Thanks for the information. Would tubeless be a good idea for touring?
    If you like not getting flat tires, I'd say it's definitely a good idea! I was on a ride three days ago and got a huge 3" thorn in my front Nate. I actually stopped so my wife could witness it seal itself up when I pulled the thorn out... It didn't even lose enough air to be able to notice it'd punctured. Cool.

    My tubeless fatbike tires have been problem-free 100% of the time on the trail. I had initial challenges beading up a folding bead Nate, but once it was on the rim, it's been totally reliable (and that was the tire that I punctured a few days ago).

    Anyway, I give it a hearty thumbs-up for touring. I would, however, recommend using valve stems with removable cores and carrying extra sealant with you in your pack. That way, if you have an event that uses lots of sealant, you can add more without needing to unseat a bead.

    Good luck!

    Image: Errin Vasquez
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Tubeless Darryl-5.jpg  

    I like bikes

  129. #129
    mtbr member
    Reputation: spovegas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    497

    Need Help - Can't Get Stan's To Seal

    First off, there are several threads with good "how to" info on going fat tubeless, but this one has been particularly helpful to me and so I wanted to say thanks to shark and everyone else who has contributed here. Great stuff.

    I settled on the gorilla tape method, with Stan's stems . . .

    Tubeless Darryl-img_1398.jpg

    For seating the bead, I screwed around with trying to do it with compressed air for quite a while, with no success. I ended up using a variation of the method in this video, thanks ChevyM14.

    Instead of carb cleaner, I used acetylene. I have to insert my disclaimer here: I would strongly discourage you from trying this. It's inherently dangerous and I suggest you use another method to seat your beads.

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/BuMooaY-HUA?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    So far, so good.

    But that's when things went to h&ll. Both tires had been through this mess and had numerous thorn punctures. I thought that this type of puncture is exactly what Stan's sealant is all about, but I can't get the tires to seal. I started out with 6 oz (3 scoops) per tire, fed in through the presta stem, after taking out the core. I've blown half of it out on the floor. I'm not against adding more, but at this point, lack of sealant is not the problem, because the punctures are still shooting out sealant when rotated to the bottom.

    Tubeless Darryl-img_1426.jpg

    Tubeless Darryl-img_1427.jpg

    Tubeless Darryl-img_1431.jpg

    This is my first experience with Stan's sealant and I don't know much about it. I've spent the last two nights trying to get these mothers to hold air and they just won't seal. I've tried high air pressure and low air pressure and everything in between, along with all different speeds of rotating the tire in the truing stand or on the bike, along with all manner of wiggle/jiggle. No luck. I wish I could get them to hold air long enough to go out on a short ride and do all manner of drunken swerving to swish the sealant around, but they won't even hold air that long.

    That's $240 worth of tires (which is obscene, but that's another subject), and so no way I'm getting rid of them - I'll go back to tubes I guess, if I can't find a solution. But for those of you who have experience with Stan's, is there anything you can suggest in terms of maybe getting these dudes to seal up?

  130. #130
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GTR2ebike's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    1,872
    Are you shaking the bottle a lot before putting the sealant in?

  131. #131
    Black Sheep rising
    Reputation: utabintarbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    917
    2 things:

    Try to semi repair the known large holes in the tires (duct or gorilla tape may work).

    Add some glitter to the Stans sealant (it acts as a clotting agent, like platelets - it may be better to add this before seating the bead).

    HTH
    Let the market decide!

    N42.58 W83.06

  132. #132
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    51
    I just did tubeless bfl on a lm rim.
    I did the following,
    Put a tube in for a decent ride, to stretch tyre.
    Gaffs tape rim then use a 20 inch tube, fits lm rim perfectly.
    Inflate tyre with no stans, use soapy water to help seal tyre on rim.
    Then deflate, I use true blue sealant. Put on more soapy water.
    Inflate tyre and at the same time with the rim horizontal to ground move rim in a figure eight motion this will put sealant at tyre edge to seal tyre when inflating.
    Works a treat for me. Normal Larry is a lot easier

  133. #133
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ChevyM14's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    142
    Quote Originally Posted by spovegas View Post
    For seating the bead, I screwed around with trying to do it with compressed air for quite a while, with no success. I ended up using a variation of the method in this video, thanks ChevyM14.
    Thanks for the shout out. Sorry you could not get your tire to seal. I have never tried to seal a used tire full of hols, have tubless tire I have set up was new or all most new.
    2012 FatBack with BFL tires
    2010 Specialized StumpJumper FSR Expert
    2006 Specialized RockHopper

  134. #134
    All fat, all the time.
    Reputation: Shark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    8,613
    I had a finger sized stick go through my tire few weeks back, used a glueless patch kit on the inside of the tire, then & small dab of crazy glue in the hole from the outside. Fresh stans and no problems since.

  135. #135
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    9

    RD tubeless

    I just converted my folding Husker Du's to tubeless. I tried Gorilla tape over the Surly rim strip with a Stan's valve, but the bead was way to loose to air up. I ended up using a layer of packing foam down the middle and Gorilla tape over the top. This created a channel for the beads and it aired up easily with a compressor. I had a few spots that didn't want to seal along the bead and it would slowly lose air, but after riding it all is good. Used 6oz of Stan's per tire.

  136. #136
    Smash Mode: ON
    Reputation: Dustin Mustangs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    300
    I wouldn't call it 'easy', but it is easier to air them up if you put a ratchet strap or something similar around the tire circumference and collapse the tire down a bit with it.

    Also, air them up with out the core in the valve. I use an air nozzle and temporarily attach it to the empty stem with gorilla tape and zip ties so I can use both hands to manipulate the tire. With these two tricks I have no problem getting them to air up with out the foam.

    And one last tip... I see a lot of guys using squirt bottles to shoot the stans in through the valve stem. I squirt mine in too but I just use the stans bottle with a short piece of hose attached. Works great and the stans bottles are graduated so you can tell how much you've put in.
    Whatever floats your bike, dude

  137. #137
    Smash Mode: ON
    Reputation: Dustin Mustangs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    300
    Quote Originally Posted by Dustin Mustangs View Post
    Funny you just bumped this. I finally hit my wall with fat tubeless on the trail tonight. I re-seated my front and am still leaking sealant on the brake side when riding. I tried the rear, to see if I had a bad rim or tire in the front, and it is even worse. I had to stop my maiden ride on the rear tonight to tube up because it was leaking so fast. Same as the front, break side bead leaking sealant and air like crazy but only when riding. Holds pressure fine and doesn't bubble soap when parked. Not sure what is going on but I am done messing with sealant for a while.

    Just an update on my quest for tubeless... Per Shark's recomendation I put a couple layers of tape on my bead shelves where I previously had none. This made airing up eaier and more importantly stopped my issue with leaky beads. It's been a couple hundred miles and I have not seen any sealant at my beads even at the lowest of air pressures. Thanks for the tip Shark!
    Whatever floats your bike, dude

  138. #138
    Big "T"
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    369
    back in the day this is how all tubeless set ups worked. it's funny that 10 yrs later it's new again.

    I can't believe Stan's or even Surly haven't come out with a rim strip kit.

  139. #139
    All fat, all the time.
    Reputation: Shark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    8,613
    Update:

    I currently use 2 layers of gorilla tape, stans tubeless valves, & DIY sealant. Even finger-sized sticks will seal for 5 - 10 miles, generally good enough to get you back to the vehicle! (I've had 6 large sticks through the back tire so far this year. One with a tube, and it went flat in 10 seconds. Tubeless, I was able to continue riding 5 - 10 miles).

  140. #140
    i heart singletrack
    Reputation: mgersib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    1,553
    Quote Originally Posted by Shark View Post
    Update:

    I currently use 2 layers of gorilla tape, stans tubeless valves, & DIY sealant. Even finger-sized sticks will seal for 5 - 10 miles, generally good enough to get you back to the vehicle! (I've had 6 large sticks through the back tire so far this year. One with a tube, and it went flat in 10 seconds. Tubeless, I was able to continue riding 5 - 10 miles).
    That's great to hear... Amazing you're getting large sticks in your rear tire. You must be doing some serious bushwhacking... Nice!

    I've been running a similar setup and have had a great year with zero flats over more than 2,000 miles. In fact, while racing at the Dakota Five-O, my front wheel hit a rock hard enough to put a gnarly dent in the rim, right behind the bead, yet there was no flat, burp or loss of air pressure... Awesome.

    Every fatbike tube I've had to buy this year has been because I've given my spare to someone on the trail... I'm up to three now!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Tubeless Darryl-296619_278839082216269_598047805_n.jpg  

    I like bikes

  141. #141
    mtbr member
    Reputation: modifier's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    1,816
    Since I have not owned any double walled fat rims I don't know how tires mount up to them but on single walled rims that many people use the tires are dangerously loose. Nothing I can do about it but take the risk and hope for the best if I want to ride fat, which is about all I want to ride anymore. So far no catastrophic accidents, just slow speed or while airing up blow offs.

    Fortunately in my area most trails are well maintained and ridden often but I still get thorn flats every few rides. So gong tubeless would be very beneficial, however I have not had good luck with any tire going tubeless other than a Larry. All others have not worked. If I wanted to jump thought enough circus hoops I could probably get it to work, but so far I have not had the patience, even though I have tried various times with split tubes and foam etc. If I lived in an area like some of you guys do I would pretty much have to convert to tubeless to keep my sanity.

    It seems like the best thing that could happen is if Quality/Surly made their tires with smaller beads and much of this trouble would go away and people could much more easily convert to tubeless. On all other bikes I have been running only tubeless since the technology was introduced to the market and thorn flats was a distant unpleasant memory until the fat tire with tubes thing came into my world.

    I realize that there are variations during production but I have never heard anyone complain that a fat tire was too tight and hard to mount on the rim. They are either loose or hella loose. So how about manufacturers changing specifications so the new range is tight to just right????? I don't see the advantages to anyone of making them too big.
    No it never stops hurting, but if you keep at it you can go faster.

  142. #142
    poser Administrator
    Reputation: rockcrusher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    10,222
    Quote Originally Posted by modifier View Post
    Since I have not owned any double walled fat rims I don't know how tires mount up to them but on single walled rims that many people use the tires are dangerously loose. Nothing I can do about it but take the risk and hope for the best if I want to ride fat, which is about all I want to ride anymore. So far no catastrophic accidents, just slow speed or while airing up blow offs.

    Fortunately in my area most trails are well maintained and ridden often but I still get thorn flats every few rides. So gong tubeless would be very beneficial, however I have not had good luck with any tire going tubeless other than a Larry. All others have not worked. If I wanted to jump thought enough circus hoops I could probably get it to work, but so far I have not had the patience, even though I have tried various times with split tubes and foam etc. If I lived in an area like some of you guys do I would pretty much have to convert to tubeless to keep my sanity.

    It seems like the best thing that could happen is if Quality/Surly made their tires with smaller beads and much of this trouble would go away and people could much more easily convert to tubeless. On all other bikes I have been running only tubeless since the technology was introduced to the market and thorn flats was a distant unpleasant memory until the fat tire with tubes thing came into my world.

    I realize that there are variations during production but I have never heard anyone complain that a fat tire was too tight and hard to mount on the rim. They are either loose or hella loose. So how about manufacturers changing specifications so the new range is tight to just right????? I don't see the advantages to anyone of making them too big.
    My observations on these tires, particularly the Surly ones, is that they have a minimal amount of rubber under the bead area, where other tires have a lot of rubber. If you get to the point of having a tire/rim seat through whatever means to get a tight interface there isn't enough cushion rubber for some give to get the seating right. If it is tight enough to prevent burps (at least in the double wall marges I have) then it is too tight to mount the tire, as a matter of fact, I tore the bead on a larry trying to mount it on a rim with too much tape. I would take a slightly heavier tire to have more rubber on the bead, a wider bead for better tubeless sealing and more consistent bead diameters.
    MTBR Posting Guidelines
    calories>electrons

  143. #143
    Smash Mode: ON
    Reputation: Dustin Mustangs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    300
    Quote Originally Posted by Shark View Post
    Update:

    I currently use 2 layers of gorilla tape, stans tubeless valves, & DIY sealant.
    Care to share you sealant recipe?
    Whatever floats your bike, dude

  144. #144
    All fat, all the time.
    Reputation: Shark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    8,613
    Quote Originally Posted by Dustin Mustangs View Post
    Care to share you sealant recipe?
    1 part latex (moldbuilder from hobby lobby, be sure to use online coupon usually 40% off)
    1 part slime (green stuff from automotive store)
    3 parts windshield washer fluid
    glitter as needed to help plug larger holes

    This makes about 4x the amount compared to buying stan's. Been using it 2 months now & very happy with results.

  145. #145
    mtbr member
    Reputation: modifier's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    1,816
    Quote Originally Posted by Dustin Mustangs View Post
    Care to share you sealant recipe?
    Go check this out. At almost 2000 posts on the subject you could be reading for a week

    http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-componen...ew-406115.html

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Rockcrusher. That makes some sense on the bead material.
    No it never stops hurting, but if you keep at it you can go faster.

  146. #146
    Bad cat!
    Reputation: montana_ben's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    357
    Don't know if someone else has tried this, but on my current tubeless setup (Holey Darryl and Nate) I did this:

    Instead of Gorilla tape to seal the rim strip, I folded the stock red surly rim strip back, and laid a bead of polyurethane caulk right where the rim starts to turn up. Tried to get it pretty even and estimate a bead thickness that would seal but not have too much squeeze out. Flipped the strip down, and repeated with the other side. Gently pressed down and visually verified no gaps in the caulking (the strip is semi-transparent.) Wiped up a bit of excess. Did tire and tube as usual, then aired up to 20 or so and let it sit a day, so the polyurethane could kick a bit with the tube squeezing everything and stretching the strip. Deflated, broke bead on one side, removed tube and installed stans valve, you know the drill... Tires are well broken in at this point and popped right up. A little shake and all is good. No leakage yet under the rim strip (when stans is bubbling out of spoke holes...ugh.) Been about a week and been riding them, so far so good. A little poly squeezed out a spoke or two, but I just let it dry and it peeled off.

    The good--about as minimalist as you can get. Very little added weight. Fast and easy.
    The Bad--unknown. Rim strip might be really hard to remove if I needed to change a broken spoke... Think this would only work with a stock rim strip.

  147. #147
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    507
    I have tried the tape and sealant method with very limited success. My tires would leak off fairly quickly if the pressure was above about 8 PSI. below 8 PSI. it would take a day or so. I did the split tube method which has worked great for me. How I did it was I use the foam around the rim that someone else on the form posted, it worked great. After I put the foam on the rim. I used a 19Ē tube for a motorcycle. ( stops the wrinkling problem I had using 26Ē fat tire tubes) When I split the tube I cleaned the tube where the tire bead fits and cleaned the tire bead its self also. I install the split tube on the rim and then put the tire on with the split tube on the inside and then pulled out over the rim. Itís easier this way than to try to fit the tire over the rim and tube at the same time. With the foam on the rim you should have a snug fit between the tire and the split tube. Then I used a tire repair product made for cleaning rubber most auto part stores will have this. Then brushed on a rubber tire repair cement between the tires bead and the tube use liberal amount inflate the tire. I put a full 30PSI in mine to push the bead in place. Then use a razor blade the cut off the excess rubber from the split tube.
    When itís muddy out I run about 15 to 18 PSI in my nates this method work well with that pressure. Also you can take off your tire if you need to and it will not come apart.

  148. #148
    mtbr member
    Reputation: alshead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    1,600
    How is this holding up? I have Holey Darryls and a Nate and an HD and am thinking I want to set up tubeless. This seems like one of the best reports on here..
    "There are two kinds of mountain bikers in the world: those who are faster than me, and me."

  149. #149
    mtbr member
    Reputation: alshead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    1,600
    Whoops- My "how is it holding up" question was for montana_ben- I like the idea of using the surly rimstrip and a little caulk...


    Quote Originally Posted by montana_ben View Post
    Don't know if someone else has tried this, but on my current tubeless setup (Holey Darryl and Nate) I did this:

    Instead of Gorilla tape to seal the rim strip, I folded the stock red surly rim strip back, and laid a bead of polyurethane caulk right where the rim starts to turn up. Tried to get it pretty even and estimate a bead thickness that would seal but not have too much squeeze out. Flipped the strip down, and repeated with the other side. Gently pressed down and visually verified no gaps in the caulking (the strip is semi-transparent.) Wiped up a bit of excess. Did tire and tube as usual, then aired up to 20 or so and let it sit a day, so the polyurethane could kick a bit with the tube squeezing everything and stretching the strip. Deflated, broke bead on one side, removed tube and installed stans valve, you know the drill... Tires are well broken in at this point and popped right up. A little shake and all is good. No leakage yet under the rim strip (when stans is bubbling out of spoke holes...ugh.) Been about a week and been riding them, so far so good. A little poly squeezed out a spoke or two, but I just let it dry and it peeled off.

    The good--about as minimalist as you can get. Very little added weight. Fast and easy.
    The Bad--unknown. Rim strip might be really hard to remove if I needed to change a broken spoke... Think this would only work with a stock rim strip.
    "There are two kinds of mountain bikers in the world: those who are faster than me, and me."

  150. #150
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    100
    Quote Originally Posted by spovegas View Post
    But for those of you who have experience with Stan's, is there anything you can suggest in terms of maybe getting these dudes to seal up?
    Most tires will hold air even if they are not originally tubeless. So if you're rim tape and Stan's presta valve are air-tight, make sure that your tire's beads are flush with the rim. If you can't tell, get SOAPY water (soap=bubbles), and wash the rim, it'll will be evident where there is air leaking.

    Sometimes, you need to pump it up far so that the beads will set in by pressure alone. I mean, 45psi, you'll hear it pop like popcorn when it gets in. Hope that works!

  151. #151
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    790
    Will the Q-tubes 24"x 2.1 - 2.3 Presta end up wide enough for a 100mm rim, or is the twice as expensive 2.4-2.75 needed?

Similar Threads

  1. Lacing a Darryl
    By SteveRice in forum Fat bikes
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-02-2011, 10:43 AM
  2. Rolling darryl crack in rim?
    By elgordo in forum Fat bikes
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 08-29-2011, 05:33 PM
  3. Flat Top or Darryl??
    By SteveRice in forum Fat bikes
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 05-27-2011, 09:12 AM
  4. Tubeless Darryl
    By benwitt11 in forum Fat bikes
    Replies: 77
    Last Post: 05-26-2011, 05:42 PM
  5. New Surly rim- Rolling Darryl
    By tscheezy in forum Fat bikes
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 12-06-2010, 01:33 PM

Members who have read this thread: 2

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2020 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.