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  1. #1
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    Tire Brand, Model + Kold Kutters =Studded Tires?

    What Fat Tires work well with kold kutter tire screws for a studded tire arsenal? I've seen the Vee Snowshoe XL laced with KK in videos but anything else? Experience? Problems?
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    Quote Originally Posted by homeslice View Post
    What Fat Tires work well with kold kutter tire screws for a studded tire arsenal? I've seen the Vee Snowshoe XL laced with KK in videos but anything else? Experience? Problems?
    I've done a few sets of Vee Missions now and I think that's probably the best for pure ice. Missions were craptastic on snow but thus far their ice performance with KK's is excellent.

    This has only been verified on cold/hard ice in the Colorado alpine. Wet/slushy ice hasn't been tried yet.

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    Looking at Kold Kutters on a set of Snowshoe's or Bulldozer's. What do you think? We have a lot of ice in MA right now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cycloxer13 View Post
    Looking at Kold Kutters on a set of Snowshoe's or Bulldozer's. What do you think? We have a lot of ice in MA right now.
    If those are your only two choices then the snowshoes are better. You want a short, wide block so that it doesn't flex under the load of the screw.

    Just back from a 3-day mixed terrain ride with lots of ice. Really, really impressed by the combo of Kold Kutters and the Maxxis FBF/FBR tires. Great on snow, incredible on ice, tolerable on rock and dirt.

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    I used Bulldozers. Not the best snow tire.
    It doesn't matter what I ride as long as I ride it Rubber Side Down●~●.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RockyJo1 View Post
    I used Bulldozers. Not the best snow tire.

    Okay if you could do it again what would you use? I haven't bought tires yet. I am running Ground Controls tubeless on 90mm rims right now. They are great in snow, but no-go on ice. I don't mind having two sets of tires.

    I thought of using an H-Billie too. Yeah they are narrower, but for ice riding it's nbd.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cycloxer13 View Post
    Okay if you could do it again what would you use? I haven't bought tires yet. I am running Ground Controls tubeless on 90mm rims right now. They are great in snow, but no-go on ice. I don't mind having two sets of tires.

    I thought of using an H-Billie too. Yeah they are narrower, but for ice riding it's nbd.
    I destudded the Bulldozers for the summer. I have an old set of regular Snowshoes I might restud. We got snow now so not needed yet. Hbillies might be a good choice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    I've done a few sets of Vee Missions now and I think that's probably the best for pure ice. Missions were craptastic on snow but thus far their ice performance with KK's is excellent.

    This has only been verified on cold/hard ice in the Colorado alpine. Wet/slushy ice hasn't been tried yet.
    Considering studding my missions with KKs but I had a couple questions:

    I believe the screw is longer than the tread... if so, how do you deal with this or do you just run tubeless so it doesn't matter?

    KK seem pretty sharp; is it a legitimate concern that they could cut you up pretty badly in a crash?

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    I think I have decided on a pair of Snowshoe 4.7's (not the XL's) and a pack of 500 Kold Kutters. I'll try to put most of them in. The goal is to build up a set of ice and firm snow condition tires for cruising the trails in my town. We don't have anything super aggressive around here, but we do get a lot of ice and we do have hills. So proper traction is important.

    btw I have used Kold Kutters in my trail running shoes for many years. The grip on ice is truly incredible, ie, you can run like it is a normal trail. I'm hoping for the same performance on the bike.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cycloxer13 View Post
    Looking at Kold Kutters on a set of Snowshoe's or Bulldozer's. What do you think? We have a lot of ice in MA right now.
    My friend and I have Bud and Lou with about 80 grip studs in each tire, just enough to get traction and not go down on the bare ice. We also live in Ma and it is quite icy and looks to be that way for a while.. I also put 20 gripstuds in each of my Lake's just to walk around and not go down when you have to put a foot down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    I've done a few sets of Vee Missions now and I think that's probably the best for pure ice. Missions were craptastic on snow but thus far their ice performance with KK's is excellent.

    This has only been verified on cold/hard ice in the Colorado alpine. Wet/slushy ice hasn't been tried yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by mccarthy View Post
    Considering studding my missions with KKs but I had a couple questions:

    I believe the screw is longer than the tread... if so, how do you deal with this or do you just run tubeless so it doesn't matter?

    KK seem pretty sharp; is it a legitimate concern that they could cut you up pretty badly in a crash?
    I would be interested to know as well. Have one Vee Mission and one Vee 8 tire and two ChaoYang (Fat B Nimble knock offs) tires. Seems like while the CY tires have taller thread block, Missions and Vee8 having wider blocks would support KK better? How do you prevent tube punctures as I'm sure they penetrate tire carcass. I can't run tubeless with the wheels it is going on.
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    Tubeless. I wouldn't even consider anything else.
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    I've decided. I'm going with a set of 2016 regular Snowshoe 4.5's and I am going to screw roughly 250 Kold Kutters in each. I'll let you know what I think and post back with pictures and a ride report.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cycloxer13 View Post
    The grip on ice is truly incredible, ie, you can run like it is a normal trail. I'm hoping for the same performance on the bike.
    You will not be disappointed. Grip is outlandish:


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    Quote Originally Posted by cycloxer13 View Post
    I've decided. I'm going with a set of 2016 regular Snowshoe 4.5's and I am going to screw roughly 250 Kold Kutters in each. I'll let you know what I think and post back with pictures and a ride report.
    You should start with ~100 to 120 per tire and ride them that way first. Not likely to need more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mccarthy View Post
    Considering studding my missions with KKs but I had a couple questions:

    I believe the screw is longer than the tread... if so, how do you deal with this or do you just run tubeless so it doesn't matter?

    KK seem pretty sharp; is it a legitimate concern that they could cut you up pretty badly in a crash?
    I run them tubeless with thick goop, and I carry a tubeless plug kit.

    KK's could definitely inflict a lot of damage in a crash. You have to relearn how to simply stuff the bike into the car without barking your knuckles.

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    When I get the tire and take a look at the blocks, I will come up with a reasonable pattern. The trails in my town are pretty sketch right now and all that is forecast is cold and even some freezing rain - good test conditions.
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  18. #18
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    I am also in the process of KK's on my 4.5 Snowshoes at 125 per tire....should be a good place to start. Got about 1/2 a tire done a while back, just need to screw the rest in and grind down the point sticking through the inside of tire. Plan on dabbing the grinded end with real silicone, as I may need to use the dreaded tube!
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    Cool do you have a pic? Did you put any screws in the outermost lugs or just the mid and center lugs? I'm doing up the same tires.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cycloxer13 View Post
    Cool do you have a pic? Did you put any screws in the outermost lugs or just the mid and center lugs? I'm doing up the same tires.
    Just these crappy ones. I alternated the middle and outer lugs....but not the outermost. Hoping they stay in ok as the knobs are a bit on the soft side. Should be ok for ice and slow winter riding. Will be mounting them up in a week or two and will update.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Tire Brand, Model + Kold Kutters =Studded Tires?-2015-11-18-17.10.50.jpg  

    Tire Brand, Model + Kold Kutters =Studded Tires?-2015-11-18-17.10.19.jpg  

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    Cool, I was thinking of some on the side lugs too for cornering, no? I bought 500 so I can put as many as 250 per tire.
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    I'm waiting for my missions and kold kutters to be delivered this week. I'm confident that they'll make great ice tires, but what I'm really curious about is if I throw 150-200 screws in each Mission will it make them useful for more solidly packed trail conditions as well, as a faster alternative to something like a Bud and Lou combo, but which is also ice capable.

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    see below
    Last edited by cycloxer13; 01-09-2016 at 06:35 AM.
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    Okay I just finished up my front with 200 Kold Kutters. It looks simply awesome. These setup tubeless like a charm. I'll have a ride report tomorrow. I call these the Snowshoe X Ice.

    Tire Brand, Model + Kold Kutters =Studded Tires?-img_20160108_211252234.jpgTire Brand, Model + Kold Kutters =Studded Tires?-img_20160108_211239723.jpgTire Brand, Model + Kold Kutters =Studded Tires?-img_20160108_211214586.jpg
    Last edited by cycloxer13; 01-08-2016 at 08:58 PM.
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    cycloxer13 - Any pictures of the inside of the tire? I am interested in the penetration to the casing. Thanks

    I was in contact with KK in the early winter about a shorter length (.5") for fatbike purposes that would not come through the casing. That effort did not pass their field testing for this season.

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    I run tubeless with sealant. I never run tubes and I don't even bring them with me when I ride. My system has been bomber. However, I typically only ride on snow and ice, rarely on dirt or rocks. I'll do a little pavement, but mostly just road crossings.

    Just finished the rear with the same stud pattern and took it for a quick spin. Incredible. It is basically like 100% traction everywhere.
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    Cycloxer, those look awesome!
    My question is has anybody tried these with Nates and Buds?
    I have a pair of each that are a couple winter seasons old and thought I would try a Bud up front and Nate out back .I am wondering if the lugs will support the KK's well?

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    I just got back from a 15 miler in very nasty mixed conditions of ice, snow, some rain, and some loosening corn snow. I am happy to report ludicrous levels of traction. I ran 5 psi front and 6 psi in the rear. They worked exceptionally well. I didn't have any problems whatsoever. I think they came out pretty damn close to what I was trying to achieve in the design. Studding the side lugs was a great idea. You can lean the bike and corner just like a regular mountain bike. The level of grip is almost scary. By the end of the ride I was riding quite aggressive and it was crazy fun.

    I will have more to report on the pros and cons later. There are some cons to this setup too.Tire Brand, Model + Kold Kutters =Studded Tires?-img_20160109_105632.jpgTire Brand, Model + Kold Kutters =Studded Tires?-img_20160109_121633.jpg
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    I've ridden my setup several times, still with no issues whatsoever. This morning's ride was 1-2" of snow on top of patches of hidden ice and some frozen stream crossings. I ran 3.5 psi front and 4.5 psi rear. The traction with this setup is second to none. You can go right up and over anything frozen. I might add another 40 studs in the center blocks which would put each tire at 240 total. You can ride short stretches of pavement with these just fine if you go easy on the gas, but they make a lot of noise.
    Tire Brand, Model + Kold Kutters =Studded Tires?-img_20160114_095140.jpgTire Brand, Model + Kold Kutters =Studded Tires?-img_20160114_092643.jpg
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    Excellent!
    Told you that they work
    The Kold Kutters make the claim that studded fatbike tires don't work as well as skinny ones seem a little outdated.
    Coming from my Kold Kutter equipped fatbike to my commuter mtb with Schwalbe Ice Spiker tires is downright scary. When used to the 'fat slicks on dry sandstone' level of traction of the Kold Kutter fatbike on glare ice makes the studded skinny tires feel like a nonstudded tire on teflon coated ice in comparison.
    Does that mean that the Schwalbe Ice Spiker is a bad tire? Not at all, it is excellent in comparison with all production studded tires. It is just that a Kold Kutter studded fat tire takes traction on ice into a dimension of its own.
    BTW, the Schwalbe Jumbo Jim is a fantastic candidate for being studded with Kold Kutters, as the knobs provide a firm and solid base.
    So good, in fact that riding ice covered single track almost becomes boring, as you don't have to do any work to find traction, almost like it has been paved.
    Last edited by Espen W; 01-14-2016 at 01:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cycloxer13 View Post
    I've ridden my setup several times, still with no issues whatsoever. This morning's ride was 1-2" of snow on top of patches of hidden ice and some frozen stream crossings. I ran 3.5 psi front and 4.5 psi rear. The traction with this setup is second to none. You can go right up and over anything frozen. I might add another 40 studs in the center blocks which would put each tire at 240 total. You can ride short stretches of pavement with these just fine if you go easy on the gas, but they make a lot of noise.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Have you noticed losing studs?
    I am doubting setting the screws with glue or Just screw them on the tubeless wheel

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    No lost studs. I didn't use adhesive. I screwed them in by hand with a nut driver. I liked that better than using a cordless drill.
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    What length KK are you guys using?

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    Going to do this to my Bud and Nate. I only run tubeless as well, but my question to the ones who also run tubeless, did you grind off the part of the screw which went through the casing? I tend to run ~5psi on most singletrack unless it's fresh and deep, then closer to 3. Just wondering if the screws would hit the rim and possibly puncture the tape


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    I ran 3.5 and 4.5 the other day. I didn't grind the heads. Everything seems to work pretty good if you do a proper install. My setup is tight. I haven't lost any air nor any sealant.

    That being said, this is an ice and firm snow tire setup. I would not use these in very rocky terrain nor if I planned to ride a lot of pavement. I think that is where you risk ripping them out. I do a lot of road crossings, but I just pedal easy. I have also gone over a fair amount of rocks, but again, I don't try to crush it and apply mad power over a rock.
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    I would pretty much just be riding on exactly what you mentioned. Firm snow, soft snow, ice. I am going to order some and give it a shot.


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    ok then, I am ready to studd the tires, the plan is to first set the wheels tubeless and then screw the kold kutters , adding more as needed.

    I have two snowshoe 4.5 single compound and one snowshoe 4.7 in silica compound. I am doubting between using the tires I have or purchase a Snowshoe XL or a maxxis minion / colossus to use it front.
    I dont intend to ride powder often. What do you guys recommend?

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    The regular Snowshoe is better for using Kold Kutters as it has no pre-drilled holes. The XL is a better choice if you want to use the aluminum-carbide press-in studs.

    I wouldn't worry about the Silica as it honestly won't do crap for you when you hit ice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    I run them tubeless with thick goop, and I carry a tubeless plug kit.

    KK's could definitely inflict a lot of damage in a crash. You have to relearn how to simply stuff the bike into the car without barking your knuckles.
    would you please go over you tubeless setup in detail. I really want to get my 3 soon to be 4 fat bikes setup tubeless. I've got CS on the ICT and 80 mm's on the 9:ZERO:7 and Mayor.

    Thanks in advance.

    P.S. already have a pack of KK's to start with.

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    Thanks to this thread I got a bag of 3/8 kutters and applied 120 per tire in the same assymetrical pattern front and rear. I have regular Snowshoes 4.5. The grip is very good, much better than the ISP I have on the other bike. Now I consider getting another bag and put some more in. On a frozen lake I tested the cornering grip. When leaning over the bike I could quite easy make it skid. I consider putting more cutters in the outer thread on the front tire where I have a cutter every 4th knob. And some more in the center thread in the rear tire for more traction. What do you think?

    Tire Brand, Model + Kold Kutters =Studded Tires?-kutters.jpg

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    Yes. I started with every 4th block on the sides too, but I didn't like the distance between them. If you roll the tire on edge you can see that you will momentarily lose contact with a Kutter. So I bumped it up to every other block. I am at 200 per tire right now and I might even add 40 more in the alternating center lugs. I just haven't gotten around to that yet.

    You can see how they rust a little from the salt water on the roads, but it is purely cosmetic and it goes right away when you ride.
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    Thanks. I am definately going for every 2nd on the outer knobs. Your outer thread biased pattern looks perfect for a front wheel. But for the rear I might go for a more dense center pattern...

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    This pattern looks good....think I will need to bump up the planned 125 per tire to this! Like the idea of being able to lean into corners without thinking about losing traction on ice or icey trails. Now I just need to get em to go tubeless on my non-tubeless Weinmann rims. ;-)
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    I rode some crazy nasty stuff today - 20 miles, no problems, 4 psi front, 5 psi rear. The firmer the snow and ice, the better these things work. There were sections I was riding at summer speed. It is almost scary leaning into icy singletrack corners at speed with trees right there, but you do learn to trust the grip. I also went up some 20% grade sections of trail with almost perfect grip both in and out of the saddle. For now I am not making any changes.Tire Brand, Model + Kold Kutters =Studded Tires?-img_20160117_142654.jpgTire Brand, Model + Kold Kutters =Studded Tires?-img_20160117_150926.jpgTire Brand, Model + Kold Kutters =Studded Tires?-img_20160117_161136.jpgTire Brand, Model + Kold Kutters =Studded Tires?-img_20160117_152212.jpg
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    I've got about 5 rides now on a Vee Rubber Mission with 128 Kold Kutters in it. No tire/tubeless issues thus far. We've been blessed with pretty good snow lately, so not great for testing a spiked tire, but running it anyways.

    I'm pretty pleased with the results, in loose over ice/hardpack base or just plain hardpacked snow the tire is extremely usable. I'd put it almost on par traction wise in the snow as a Lou, but without the float for those big powder/trail blazing days. It seems to beat or at least equal the Nate's that most of my fellow riders are running. I especially like it in for it's ability to keep the rear in check and hooked up when going down well worn hard-packed/icy steeps and chutes. The bike is much more controllable and you can really use the rear brake hard without risk of washing the tire out.

    In some rare hardpacked conditions I feel like I'm pedalling a bit harder than I might otherwise be with a more traditional tire, but it's fairly rare and it's hard to tell if it's real or just my legs being tired.

    Thus far it's been a great way to turn a near useless tire into something useful in the snow. Awaiting the eventual thaw/freeze cycles to bring the ice around so I can test these where they really should excel.

    It's incredibly noisy on pavement and since I only studded every second block in the center row it's also very bumpy, you can feel the vibrations through the whole bike and your body. If you plan to ride on pavement/dirt for more than a 100 meters or so per ride this probably isn't for you.

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    Thanks for the update on the Missions and KK's. Do you happen to have any picture of it all installed?
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    Update: 120 miles on my setup with no issues to date. This morning's ride was a few miles of pond ice and drifting snow followed by some crusty singletrack and then some faster packed singletrack with sections of ice. We also did half a dozen road crossings. I am still really liking this setup for nasty conditions. My buddy was riding a set of Vee Snowshoe XL's unstudded and he almost bit it a handful of times. After riding these, I would not even attempt ice without studs. The difference is night and day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kryten View Post
    Thanks for the update on the Missions and KK's. Do you happen to have any picture of it all installed?
    Here is a shot of my rear tire 128 screws currently. The middle and 2nd from outside tread blocks are done every 2 blocks, and the very outside tread block is done every 4th block.
    Tire Brand, Model + Kold Kutters =Studded Tires?-rear-kold-kutter.jpg



    Note that those are actually "Original Gold Screws" Which are basically exactly the same as Kold Kutters. I got impatient waiting for my Kold Kutters in the mail and bought something local. Now that I have both I'd say the head and manufacturing on the Kold Kutters is just a bit nicer/sharper and might provide ever so slightly more traction and they come in a shorther length than the Original Gold Screws. Otherwise they're basically the same product.

  50. #50
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    I just spent 10 minutes going over all of my studs with a nut driver. A few of them had backed out a bit, so I tightened them all up. I haven't lost a single one yet. Everything still looks good. I imagine pavement and riding over rocks beats on them the most. In general they were all pretty tight and none of them seemed about to pop out.
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    Cycloxer; great thread. I studded a Nate with pancake head 3/8" self drilling framing screws , from the inside out. From the sounds of it , both the Kold Kutters and the framing screws have similar hookup. I'm not set up for tubeless so I can't run the KKs .
    Unbelievable traction is the words!
    I've run it on both front and rear and have it on the front now where it will stay till breakup. Factory studs are nice, but don't compare to the traction of these and I'm sure the KKs.
    Hopefully other riders will come to see that winter riding doesn't have to be a roll of the dice with a serious injury.

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    With the help of a lot of info that I acquired on this forum I recently studded a pair of Nates with KK's and could not be more satisfied with the way that these things grip on ice, unreal traction. I put 190 studs in each tire with a drill, turned the tire inside out and ground off the screw tips, made a tire liner from some closed cell foam and duct tape, installed tubes and aired up. No problems at all. One thing that I have noticed about the tire liners is that at low psi my 27 tpi Nates seem to keep a wider profile than they did before. Very happy with this setup.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Trigger Finger View Post
    Hopefully other riders will come to see that winter riding doesn't have to be a roll of the dice with a serious injury.
    I haven't taken them off of my bike yet. They are pretty fun.
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    Do these screws go in by hand or are people pre drilling a hole to thread them into?
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    I have some lower end wieneman? rims that won't set up tubeless. Has anyone used KKs with tubes? I'm thinking it would involve grinding/cutting 250 screws after installation and either covering each hole with epoxy or silicone, or rubber cementing in an old innertube liner...which sounds heavy. Either way sounds like a large PIA.

  56. #56
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    You screw them in by hand with a nut driver or you can use a screw gun. No pre-drilling is required.
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    IMO. For tubeless the Kold Kutters make the most sense . And for tubed tires the pancake head framing screws . . I've been trying to upload pics of my stud job , but loose my data connection part way thru each time. .

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    I got a data connection :#)

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    I took this pic when I had it on the rear. It is now on the front. Perhaps on Steep hills I would want studs in the center knobs , but so far I haven't been able to get this tire to go any direction but the way it's pointed. But, I'm running tubes so.
    As my wife rides mostly hard ice covered pavement all winter and my thot was to keep her from side slipping in ruts or other conditions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dietz31684 View Post
    I have some lower end wieneman? rims that won't set up tubeless. Has anyone used KKs with tubes? I'm thinking it would involve grinding/cutting 250 screws after installation and either covering each hole with epoxy or silicone, or rubber cementing in an old innertube liner...which sounds heavy. Either way sounds like a large PIA.
    I've got a Weinmann hl80 up front that is working great with split tube. I've also got a similar Framed rim that won't take a loose beaded Nate to save it's life. So, for that rim I run a foam over tube setup. It uses two 1" foam pipe insulation layers. The first is cut at the seam and the second(uncut) is stuffed inside of it. You'll need three 6' sections to do it, taping at the seams. The foam will fill a 4" tire.



    Insert the foam into the carcass and install a 24" tube on the rim.



    Install the tire with the tube near flat and inflate to desired hardness. Pressure will be higher than normal fat pressures.

    Enjoy riding a near flat proof setup. Works better for higher pressure studded applications than low pressure float situations.

  61. #61
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    FTR, I've been running kk's on a set of Nates and Minion FBF for about ten rides. On the Nate rear, I've managed to rip out almost all of the (3/8") studs near the center. All of the transition studs are intact. The FBF only got studs on the two transition rows, and has been dynamite. I'll probably try the pancake screws on the center knobs so they can't pull out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AllMountin' View Post
    FTR, I've been running kk's on a set of Nates and Minion FBF for about ten rides. On the Nate rear, I've managed to rip out almost all of the (3/8") studs near the center. All of the transition studs are intact. The FBF only got studs on the two transition rows, and has been dynamite. I'll probably try the pancake screws on the center knobs so they can't pull out.
    What sort of conditions are you riding in? Snow and Ice only? Any sense on what conditions caused the studs to rip out? What's left behind when they come out? Ripped rubber? Still useable hole? A big tubeless fail?

    Did the screws in the Nates go entirely through the tire?

  63. #63
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    Riding was a mix of snow/ice trail, with maybe a few dirt patches. Also some lake ice, both glare and snow covered. I figured they came out when scratching up steep climbs or maybe locking up/sliding the rear around on the ice. The only paved riding I did were a few road crossings.

    I only ran them tubeless for a couple of rides. I was having bead sealing issues due to a loose fitting tire, but the tires held air fine when not riding, even with studs missing.

    The kk's pulled out pretty clean. I can see where they were, but the rubber is just fine. Most of the tips just barely break thru the tire on the inside. The knobs are slotted, so they don't get as much engagement as a solid block would. I suspect the FBR would work better, as the knobs are more substantial.

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    I have been running the KK's in 27 tpi Nates set up with tubes and homemade tire liners in all conditions for a couple of weeks now and have not lost a single stud. I think that part of the reason that my studs are staying in place is that I put in 190 studs per tire and have several on the ground at all times, I am sure that it reduces the amount of stress put on each individual stud, just my theory anyways. could not be happier with the set up as is.

  65. #65
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    Interesting theory, and maybe true. I only ran studs on alternating sides, one row off center, and none in the center knobs. Only one on the ground at any given time. Bike plus rider weight approaching 250 pounds.

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    I have seen a number of questions about this as it seems to be one of the biggest concerns with these regarding the point of the screw protruding into the tire. I found that you can pre-grind off as much as required so the ID of the tire is not punctured. The screws are more difficult to install but it works. Whatever protrudes isn't going to help retain the stud anyway.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcracer2 View Post
    I have seen a number of questions about this as it seems to be one of the biggest concerns with these regarding the point of the screw protruding into the tire. I found that you can pre-grind off as much as required so the ID of the tire is not punctured. The screws are more difficult to install but it works. Whatever protrudes isn't going to help retain the stud anyway.
    Is there a quicker way to do it than the quickest way I can think of, i.e., sitting at a bench grinder with the bag, and clamping each screw in a Vice Grip then grinding the tip? The alternative of grinding away the tip after installation (i.e., install the screws into the tire, invert the tire inside-out, then grind the tips off with a dremel and filing drum) seems like it could be faster and more efficient, but of course you risk shaving the rubber on the inside of the tire.
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    That's exactly the method that I used, inverting the tire and grinding the points with a four inch handheld grinder. One unintended byproduct of this method that I discovered is that after grinding the points you have somewhat flattened and expanded the tips of the screws causing them to have a different screw footprint coming out then they did going in. I think that this could also keep them from coming out as easily. The whole project went much faster then I had anticipated. As with most of my projects I spent more time thinking about doing it then actually rolling up my sleeves and having at it.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by FatCharlie View Post
    ...As with most of my projects I spent more time thinking about doing it then actually rolling up my sleeves and having at it.
    Haha, same here The bag of KK screws have been sitting in my basement for about a week. I think I'm going to use a pair of used non-folding Nates and plan to never take the screws out, so your discovery is good to hear.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil View Post
    Is there a quicker way to do it than the quickest way I can think of, i.e., sitting at a bench grinder with the bag, and clamping each screw in a Vice Grip then grinding the tip?
    You could line up several of them in a row (8-10?), point up, between the jaws of a bench vise and then run a hand held grinder or belt sander across the tips.

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    I used vice grips and a grinding wheel. They grind fast and tire id is preserved. I went to this trouble b/c I don't want to puncture my new vanhelga and flowbeist. Now I'm planning on using my used hudus on my second set of rims tubeless of course

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    I tried pre-grinding a bunch of mine and I ended up throwing those away. Once the point was entirely gone (necessary since the missions I was installing into aren't very thick...) installing the screws became very difficult and it would chew up the rubber and shred it as it went in instead of parting the rubber and driving into the tire nicely.

    I'm sure rubber compound/durometer and tire casing all make a difference in the install experience. For Vee Rubber Missions based on my experience I recommend grinding post install. It wasn't hard and it didn't take that long for ~300 screws.

  73. #73
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    Thanks guys, looks like I'm going to install 120 per mission and grind away after install.

    It doesn't sound like people are typically installing the studs with any adhesive/glue, correct? I was thinking gorilla glue or shoe goo in particular.

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  74. #74
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    Ordered two bags of 250 Pro Gold ice screws because of this thread. They're 1/2" long (so 1/8" longer than the Kold Kutters people seem to be using), but I think I will be OK. I can modify if need be.

    I couldn't find Kold Kutters reasonably priced in Canada - by the time I got them from the US, the price wasn't worth it.

    Will be going into some tubeless 4.6" Ground Controls, unless someone has a good reason not to try it.

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    If you're going to pre grind the KKs, get yourself a piece of 1/4" plywood, sink the screws 50 at a time and hit them with the grinder. Don't have to worry about damaging the tires and they should be in strong enough to take off the tips.
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  76. #76
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    A dab of superglue on the threads will keep the KKs from coming out (for those who have the problem).
    Superglue often works extremely well on rubber (almost as efficient as it is for gluing your fingers together when using it)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Espen W View Post
    A dab of superglue on the threads will keep the KKs from coming out (for those who have the problem).
    Superglue often works extremely well on rubber (almost as efficient as it is for gluing your fingers together when using it)
    Doesn't the glue get brittle and crack, especially being the stud and superglue are rigid and the tire nob has some flex to it? From my experience in industry cyanoacrylates are pretty brittle unless you get a toughened version with additives.

  78. #78
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    That was my though. Is it even worth the time? You have a hard stud, glue and a pliable tread block. Tread block distorts and the glue just cracks....

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    the studs should be sitting in my mailbox, I guess I'll start a tire tonight. I'll post some pics.

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    No install pics, I did as intended. I ended up dipping the screw tips into gorilla glue for good measure. Installed with a power drill, used a grinder to remove the excess material, and put a small square of gorilla tape over each (now ground down) screw tip for added protection. It was simple but time consuming. I'd guess I have 1.5 hours into one tire.

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    That 3 hours you spent will seem like nothing after your first ride on ice that you would have broken your neck on before. Enjoy and smile.

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    I think it'll be worth it! Here is the pattern that I went with. The more I thought about it, I think tube set up works best for my situation as I'll be running different tires for powder/hardback and saving the studs for when conditions dictate. Glad I didn't sell the missions for the $30 that I was offered for the pair. Tire Brand, Model + Kold Kutters =Studded Tires?-uploadfromtaptalk1453948564720.jpg

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietz31684 View Post
    That was my though. Is it even worth the time? You have a hard stud, glue and a pliable tread block. Tread block distorts and the glue just cracks....
    Defitely worth the time if you have an issue with KKs coming out. Old trick that works great.
    You can even repair cuts in the thread with superglue, it (usually) works like magic on rubber.

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    Installed 208 Kold Kutters per tire on my Ground Controls. Took a quick spin on the icy streets, seem to work great.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Tire Brand, Model + Kold Kutters =Studded Tires?-image.jpg  

    Tire Brand, Model + Kold Kutters =Studded Tires?-image.jpg  


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    That is a good looking pattern. Very similar to the pattern I ran on the 2 Nates that I did . ( not that I'm any authority on stud patterns in fat bike tires ).
    I have found that that pattern works best over all. Best cornering and side traction . Great straight line traction and least rolling resistance and vibration on hard surfaces. At least with the framing screws I use.
    Tho I wanted the float of the XL snowshoe I had on the rear of my Cogburn, I couldn't use my small front sprocket. So I put a Nate back on. Tried it slick shod. Liked having my low gears more than the float of the fatter tire. So I pulled it off , studded it with 195 screws . put it back on and Luv the traction!!! . When I go to a 1ÎI will be able to run the SNOWSHOES.

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    Ok, question. Right now I have 45NRTH Vanhelga's. They are a great all around tire, but as with all tires that do not have studs.... they are not good on ice. I want to get / make some SNOW / ICE tires. Not really wanting to put studs in the Vanhelga's and I also do not think they would stay do to the sipes.

    I dont want to spend a TON, trying to stay under $100 a tire. Looking at the snowshoes and what people have done to them in this thread makes me think that is the way to go. I would also want to stay tubeless if all possible.

    How does the snowshoe with kold kutters get around in snow ? Anybody able to compare snowshoes vs vanhelga's ?

    Thanks
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  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bentpushrod View Post
    Installed 208 Kold Kutters per tire on my Ground Controls. Took a quick spin on the icy streets, seem to work great.
    Awesome, I will also do that pattern.

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    Forgot to mention, I'm ghetto tubeless. I didn't grind my studs, just ran them in with a drill. Went out for a quick 15 minute ride tonight on icy streets. I'm a fatass at 255 lbs, ran 7.5 psi. Crazy good traction. I really wanted some Dillinger 5's, but wasn't going to drop 500 bucks on a set of tires. The Ground Controls aren't cheap, but I already had them. Think I'll just buy another set of GC's to run in the summer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bentpushrod View Post
    Think I'll just buy another set of GC's to run in the summer.
    Yeah, same. I figure I will run 4.0s for summer, and the wider ones with studs in winter. Also the same deal, Dillingers cost too much.

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    JesusJuice, I forgot all about the 4.0 Ground Controls that came out on the '16 Fatboys. I think I'll go that route too. Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by dietz31684 View Post
    I think it'll be worth it! Here is the pattern that I went with. The more I thought about it, I think tube set up works best for my situation as I'll be running different tires for powder/hardback and saving the studs for when conditions dictate. Glad I didn't sell the missions for the $30 that I was offered for the pair.
    Well I took it out for a spin and it was great. I found some long sections of glare ice and it felt like riding on dirt, until you try to stop and out your foot down! Skidding tires was also no problem, crazy traction and braking. Unfortunately while riding real trails the wheels/tires/frame flex enough for the outside row of studs to knick my chainstays. I ended up removing the outside rows from my rear. Well see how things go. I can move them into the next row in if need be.

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  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietz31684 View Post
    Well I took it out for a spin and it was great. I found some long sections of glare ice and it felt like riding on dirt, until you try to stop and out your foot down!
    You didn't stud a pair of five tens too?

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Javorsky View Post
    Ok, question. Right now I have 45NRTH Vanhelga's. They are a great all around tire, but as with all tires that do not have studs.... they are not good on ice. I want to get / make some SNOW / ICE tires. Not really wanting to put studs in the Vanhelga's and I also do not think they would stay do to the sipes.

    I dont want to spend a TON, trying to stay under $100 a tire. Looking at the snowshoes and what people have done to them in this thread makes me think that is the way to go. I would also want to stay tubeless if all possible.

    How does the snowshoe with kold kutters get around in snow ? Anybody able to compare snowshoes vs vanhelga's ?

    Thanks
    As far as hook up, the 27 tpi Nates are very good in the snow and dirt and they handle the framing screw studs very well. And at around $70 each they aren't bad on the wallet. Tho they are a 3.8 " when new , mine have expanded to 4" . So they don't have the float of a wider tire . It depends on what you will b riding on . Hard pack and ice they are great. On frozen snowgo trails with 8 psi and the studs , mine do OK . I weigh 260# so my total weight with the bike is around 300# .

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Trigger Finger View Post
    As far as hook up, the 27 tpi Nates are very good in the snow and dirt and they handle the framing screw studs very well. And at around $70 each they aren't bad on the wallet. Tho they are a 3.8 " when new , mine have expanded to 4" . So they don't have the float of a wider tire . It depends on what you will b riding on . Hard pack and ice they are great. On frozen snowgo trails with 8 psi and the studs , mine do OK . I weigh 260# so my total weight with the bike is around 300# .
    Thanks for the info, Nates was also on the list... but I just wanted wider than the 4.0 I already have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Espen W View Post
    Defitely worth the time if you have an issue with KKs coming out. Old trick that works great.
    You can even repair cuts in the thread with superglue, it (usually) works like magic on rubber.
    I'll take your word for it on the super glue

    You seem to be quite familiar with the studded Snowshoe XLs. I'm thinking about tossing some Kold Kutters in them to help with washing out in corners and off camber sliding. I ride groomed/packed. They are great going straight but anything else seems questionable if it's not rock hard. I was going to put them in the very outside tread row. Do you think they'll help in non-ice conditions? Do you think the outer tread row will even contact the trail much when off camber or in turns with a little lean or would I have to move them into one of the already studded rows?

  96. #96
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    I shot a very brief clip intentionally exceeding the cornering limit(no brakes) on tractionless lake ice. The cornering limit isn't exceptionally high, but the breakaway is very predictable. Front has two rows of Kold Kutters on the transition knobs. Rear has 1/2" panhead lath screws with the auger shaped tip. Lots of fun and I think some amusement for the ice fisherman.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Javorsky View Post
    Ok, question. Right now I have 45NRTH Vanhelga's. They are a great all around tire, but as with all tires that do not have studs.... they are not good on ice. I want to get / make some SNOW / ICE tires. Not really wanting to put studs in the Vanhelga's and I also do not think they would stay do to the sipes.

    I dont want to spend a TON, trying to stay under $100 a tire. Looking at the snowshoes and what people have done to them in this thread makes me think that is the way to go. I would also want to stay tubeless if all possible.

    How does the snowshoe with kold kutters get around in snow ? Anybody able to compare snowshoes vs vanhelga's ?

    Thanks

    i have VH with KK and they are staying in fine. i did superglue but no idea if that actually helps or not. i ground 1/8th inch off and then used a drill to put them in and it was super easy. Very happy so far.

  98. #98
    Not the fake Jay Leno
    Reputation: Chinman's Avatar
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    KKs in FBNs

    Anybody install the KKs in a set of Fat b nimbles? I have a set that I tested on my Fatboy and wasn't crazy about the BB drop. Now I have a SS Pug and I was thinking this would make the Pug a bit more tasty for winter riding vs. the stock Knards. What say ye?
    Last edited by Chinman; 01-31-2016 at 09:59 AM. Reason: Added title

  99. #99
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    It's been a bit melty then icy here lately and I've lost about 6 ice screws, four rear, two front from my missions. I believe most or all came out on the recently exposed rocks.

    All except one came out with no drama and no tubeless issues. The last one to come out of the front created an un-stans-able hole. Fortunately right near the trail head.

    Lesson learned: carry a few spare screws with you just in case.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

  100. #100
    This place needs an enema
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    Quote Originally Posted by dberndt View Post
    It's been a bit melty then icy here lately and I've lost about 6 ice screws, four rear, two front from my missions. I believe most or all came out on the recently exposed rocks.

    All except one came out with no drama and no tubeless issues. The last one to come out of the front created an un-stans-able hole. Fortunately right near the trail head.

    Lesson learned: carry a few spare screws with you just in case.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

    Or tubeless plugs. Keep 'em handy enough and you can stuff one in fast, thus not needing to dig out the pump to top the tire off.

    If a screw gets ripped out chances are good the replacement won't have great purchase. Plug it first, then when you get home you can remove the plug, fill the hole with glue/silicone/etc, then thread a replacement screw in.

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