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  1. #1
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    Tire bead issues

    I recently bought a set of used, but basically new, Vee Snowshoe XL tires for my fat bike. I mounted them to my 100mm rims using tubes without any issue. I then tried to go tubeless with them. One mounted just fine, the other not so much. It started to air up but then blew out the bead. After several more unsuccessful attempts to mount the tire I gave up trying to go tubeless and cleaned the tire and rim thoroughly so I could go back to tubes with this particular tire. Here is my problem...the bead won't set with a tube now! One side sets just fine while the other side has about a quarter of the bead that won't set. If I try to air it up more to "pop" this section into place the part of the tire on the other side of the rim in this location pops off the rim. This happens at about 9psi.

    My question really is this; could the original blowout of the rim have damaged the bead? If so, is the tire trash or can it be mounted with great patience?

    I successfully mounted other tires to this rim and I do not see any warps in the rim wall that could cause the bead to pop off so I do not believe that the rim is my issue.

    Thanks.

  2. #2
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    You have a broken bead. Get a new tire (warranty?).

  3. #3
    RAKC Industries
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    A bead thats too tight isnt broken and thats the problem hes having, its too tight it sounds like.

    You say blew out the bead, as in blew it over the rim bead to the outside of the rim?

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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAKC Ind View Post
    A bead thats too tight isnt broken and thats the problem hes having, its too tight it sounds like.

    You say blew out the bead, as in blew it over the rim bead to the outside of the rim?

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    I read the original post again and still I think the bead is broken. If the bead pops out of the rim it doesn't sound like it is working. Maybe it could be tight bead also, but I don't see it popping off the rim at those pressures.
    I could be wrong of course... but I had a Vee Bulldozer with similar behaviour and it was broken. Maybe we need a bit more clarification from the original poster.

  5. #5
    fat guy on a little bike
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    which 100mm rim are you using? can we get pics?

  6. #6
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    I just went through the exact same thing you're dealing with. Borealis Turnagain rims with a really, really, really tight bead seat. Surly Bud was mounted up fine on another wheel. Transferred over to this rim, tried to mount up, one bead wouldn't seat before the other seated bead blew over the outside of the rim. That blowout broke or stretched the bead that blew over, and now the tire is garbage...it won't even set up with a tube. 15 psi is what killed it. I even tried wrapping a dozen river straps around the tire to hold the dead bead down in hopes the other might finally pop in - nope, still blew out. I'm pissed, as I didn't do anything wrong during install, and the failed seating process cost me a $130 tire, that I will need to pull the grip studs from and reinstall in another tire.
    I would advise not taking my advice.

  7. #7
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    Yes, the bead went from inside the rim to outside the rim. The tire is loose on the rim when there isn't any air in the tube so I am not sure if is too tight.

  8. #8
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    Ugh, I hope that this tire isn't dead. Is there any warranty hopes when things like this happen?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisHerrmann View Post
    Ugh, I hope that this tire isn't dead. Is there any warranty hopes when things like this happen?
    A warranty on a used tire? Umm, no.

  10. #10
    Rippin da fAt
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    What is happening is one bead is stretched too much and the one that resists seating is too tight, thus the "blowoff" occurs.
    It could be the bead that blows off has partially broken or worse.

    Time for a new tire, unfortunately. Lest ya have some cheap rims without the UST style beadseat and run it lower psi than the 9 that causes blowoff to happen.
    Get fAt, Stay fAt, Ride fAt
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  11. #11
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    I'd try split tube before buying a new one

  12. #12
    Rippin da fAt
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    Quote Originally Posted by twright205 View Post
    I'd try split tube before buying a new one
    And when you're cookin down a singltrack into a curve and blow the bloody tire off, the standby medics will whisk you off to the hospital...
    Get fAt, Stay fAt, Ride fAt
    Doctor recommended...

  13. #13
    turtles make me hot
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    I had either a Maxxis Chronicle or a V Bulldozer that wouldn't stay on a 29" rim a while back. I remember I called the manufacturer and they said they had a bad run of beads. They refunded my money. I wish I could remember which one it was.

    Never mind. It was a Fat B Nimble. I have a Bulldozer on there now.
    I like turtles

  14. #14
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    It's dead, been there, it's just life.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    It's dead, been there, it's just life.
    Yeah, I agree, but its a crappy part of life when these tires cost more than what I put on my 3/4 ton diesel truck. The crap we put up with to ride bikes in the snow is beyond me sometimes. Working on "normal" bikes for 8 months out of the year just makes this harder to swallow...you put a tire on 27.5(+) rim, air it up, beads pop in, away you go tubeless. Fatbikes, its a freakin circus...taping bs, valves that won't seal on single wall rims, stupid spoke angles, dumba$$ tread designs, etc. There are helicopters out there that get less maintenance per hour of ride time than some fatbikes.

    I wonder how many other fatbikers have really had this problem? I've only been playing with these bikes for about 5 years, and I have $350 worth of dead tires lying around that can't be used due to bead issues.
    I would advise not taking my advice.

  16. #16
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    I know, just wishful thinking.

  17. #17
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    Used, so no warranty.

  18. #18
    turtles make me hot
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    I have to say, I had trouble only with that one 29+ tire. All of my fat tires have been trouble free. All Surly except one pair of HuskerDus.
    My Other Brother Darryls have been fantastic as well.
    I like turtles

  19. #19
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    Known warranty issue with these tires, unfortunately as stated above, used=no warranty

  20. #20
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    Bead broken?

    Quote Originally Posted by solisti View Post
    I read the original post again and still I think the bead is broken. If the bead pops out of the rim it doesn't sound like it is working. Maybe it could be tight bead also, but I don't see it popping off the rim at those pressures.
    I could be wrong of course... but I had a Vee Bulldozer with similar behaviour and it was broken. Maybe we need a bit more clarification from the original poster.
    I had exactly the same issue re-mounting my vee rubber snowshoe 26 x 4.5 back onto a mulefut 80 rim. I will GUARANTEE the nearly new tire which came off the nearly new rim does not have a broken bead. Iíve been a bike mechanic for 40 years so Iíve seen a few tires and rims. So to unseat the bead, I had to step on the tire from the side to unseat the bead. Once the tire is on the rim, the issue is that the sidewall inflates at about a ten or 15 degree angle relative to the sidewall of the rim. Before any air pressure can possibly pop the bead back into position up and over the bead ramp on the rim, the tire leverages itself up and over the rim wall. I tried an incredible amount of things including putting about 1 psi in the tire/ tube and physically pushing one side into the bead seat through the tire, by ruining my thimbs. I just couldnít get the other side on that way. I tried going under the red rim rubber. I tried building plywood tire holder that would force the tire not to expand beyond the width of the rim while running a winch strap around the circumference. This was working until my too-thin reinforced plywood let loose. But I think Iím on to something, if I make this out of metal; essentially a mold that will force the tire sidewall to remain vertical and then overpressurizing the tire with some bead grease will force it to pop in the bead seat before I blow out the thick red rim tape. Iíve seen a lot of bogus garbage people have posted making these tires tubeless, using little foam spacers, etc. and talking about the tire burping over a big hit. Upon asking questions I realized they have no clue as to how the tire is actually supposed to mount on the rim.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyatko View Post
    I had exactly the same issue re-mounting my vee rubber snowshoe 26 x 4.5 back onto a mulefut 80 rim. I will GUARANTEE the nearly new tire which came off the nearly new rim does not have a broken bead. Iíve been a bike mechanic for 40 years so Iíve seen a few tires and rims. So to unseat the bead, I had to step on the tire from the side to unseat the bead. Once the tire is on the rim, the issue is that the sidewall inflates at about a ten or 15 degree angle relative to the sidewall of the rim. Before any air pressure can possibly pop the bead back into position up and over the bead ramp on the rim, the tire leverages itself up and over the rim wall. I tried an incredible amount of things including putting about 1 psi in the tire/ tube and physically pushing one side into the bead seat through the tire, by ruining my thimbs. I just couldnít get the other side on that way. I tried going under the red rim rubber. I tried building plywood tire holder that would force the tire not to expand beyond the width of the rim while running a winch strap around the circumference. This was working until my too-thin reinforced plywood let loose. But I think Iím on to something, if I make this out of metal; essentially a mold that will force the tire sidewall to remain vertical and then overpressurizing the tire with some bead grease will force it to pop in the bead seat before I blow out the thick red rim tape. Iíve seen a lot of bogus garbage people have posted making these tires tubeless, using little foam spacers, etc. and talking about the tire burping over a big hit. Upon asking questions I realized they have no clue as to how the tire is actually supposed to mount on the rim.
    Ok. Go ahead. Please keep us posted how the metal mold works out.
    April fools day and all. Test with the other tire how it is supposed to pop up to the rim... it should never pop over the rim during the inflation, if the bead is good and the rim is not totally bent.

  22. #22
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    All of my fat bike tires have been trouble free.

    Of course, that's probably a rather poor sample: I've only had the one fat ebike (iZip Sumo) and one set of tires (Surly Black Floyd) until now, and I ride 100% on the street and paved bicycle trails. In 1,450 miles, I experienced one front wheel flat and two rear wheel flats. At 1450 miles, the rear was worn to the carcass and I replaced it; the front still has plenty of tread. No problems with the bead seating at all (75mm wide rims).

    My new bike is being built right now. It has 90mm wide rims, too wide for the Black Floyds, so I'm trying a set of Duro 26x4.00 Fleetwood semi-slicks on it. If that doesn't work out, I'll lace up a set of Surly Marge Lite rims for it (65mm wide) and go back to the Black Floyds.

  23. #23
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    going tubeless you don't have a tube pushing the bead against the rim.. foldable tires are even worse..

  24. #24
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    Sounds like the rim quality is in question maybe??
    Studded Dillinger 4/5 For Sale

    The tires are the things on your bike that make contact w the trail

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyatko View Post
    I had exactly the same issue re-mounting my vee rubber snowshoe 26 x 4.5 back onto a mulefut 80 rim. I will GUARANTEE the nearly new tire which came off the nearly new rim does not have a broken bead. Iíve been a bike mechanic for 40 years so Iíve seen a few tires and rims. So to unseat the bead, I had to step on the tire from the side to unseat the bead. Once the tire is on the rim, the issue is that the sidewall inflates at about a ten or 15 degree angle relative to the sidewall of the rim. Before any air pressure can possibly pop the bead back into position up and over the bead ramp on the rim, the tire leverages itself up and over the rim wall. I tried an incredible amount of things including putting about 1 psi in the tire/ tube and physically pushing one side into the bead seat through the tire, by ruining my thimbs. I just couldnít get the other side on that way. I tried going under the red rim rubber. I tried building plywood tire holder that would force the tire not to expand beyond the width of the rim while running a winch strap around the circumference. This was working until my too-thin reinforced plywood let loose. But I think Iím on to something, if I make this out of metal; essentially a mold that will force the tire sidewall to remain vertical and then overpressurizing the tire with some bead grease will force it to pop in the bead seat before I blow out the thick red rim tape. Iíve seen a lot of bogus garbage people have posted making these tires tubeless, using little foam spacers, etc. and talking about the tire burping over a big hit. Upon asking questions I realized they have no clue as to how the tire is actually supposed to mount on the rim.
    Same happened to 4.8" Snowshoe for me, bead let go while on 80mm Mulefut over the summer, with about 4 psi in it. Very disappointing. Just glad it did not let go while I was riding. I've bought a new one and hope this does not happen again, but from the sound of this thread, it very well could.
    I've wondered as I mount these things, why there is not a deeper relief in the rim on the Mulefut. My carbon Ican wheels are a pleasure to mount a tire. The Mulefut seems like a battle every time.
    EDIT: Adding pictures, you can see the tear, and clearly the new tire is built differently.
    Tire bead issues-2018-11-08-00.16.41.jpgTire bead issues-2018-11-07-23.52.02.jpg
    Last edited by Roxanna77; 1 Week Ago at 10:29 PM. Reason: Adding pictures
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  26. #26
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    ^^^ The tighter fit on the Mulefuts is in part what makes them set up tubeless so nicely. When I had Rolling Daryl's tires were super easy to mount but tubeless was sketchy.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    ^^^ The tighter fit on the Mulefuts is in part what makes them set up tubeless so nicely. When I had Rolling Daryl's tires were super easy to mount but tubeless was sketchy.
    I did notice that the new Snowshoe was not as hard to get on and seat. I think Vee has updated the tire with a bit more bead circumference, and more rubber over the kevlar. Hopefully more than a single layer of kevlar too.

    I wonder how hard it will be to pull the studs out of the dead tire....
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roxanna77 View Post
    I wonder how hard it will be to pull the studs out of the dead tire....
    Its not too hard... takes some time and effort, but totally doable with a stud tool.

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  29. #29
    fat guy on a little bike
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roxanna77 View Post

    I wonder how hard it will be to pull the studs out of the dead tire....
    reinstall on rim w/ tube? I would think you could put enough pressure in it to make removing the studs easier...

  30. #30
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    Stans Rings

    How do you tell the age of a tree? Count its rings. Tubeless is about the same, take the tire off the rim and count the "Stans Rings".... This tire has seen 2 seasons.
    Tire bead issues-stansrings.jpg


    Is there a better sealant by now, that does not make this mess? Or should I have the tire in constant rotation when not on my bike for the summer?
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  31. #31
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    ^^^ you can take 5 minutes and pull the Stan's skin off the inside of the tires if you like, but it does not hurt anything to leave it in. Cleaning the goop from the beads is a good idea.

    I prefer home brew sealant and Orange Seal to Stans, but both leave similar skins on the inside of tires.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodney View Post
    reinstall on rim w/ tube? I would think you could put enough pressure in it to make removing the studs easier...
    Removing and especially installing studs is easier on an installed and inflated tire. However removing is not bad as long as you have a firm surface to place the tire on when pressing the stud tool onto the studs.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    ^^^ you can take 5 minutes and pull the Stan's skin off the inside of the tires if you like, but it does not hurt anything to leave it in. Cleaning the goop from the beads is a good idea.

    I prefer home brew sealant and Orange Seal to Stans, but both leave similar skins on the inside of tires.
    Well, 5 minutes?, but first I have to wrestle the tire off the rim and risk damage to the bead for spring cleaning. Someone needs to come up with a sealant that gels evenly across the entire inside of the tire and that does not settle out. How about that Flex Seal guy..... ;-)
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roxanna77 View Post
    Well, 5 minutes?, but first I have to wrestle the tire off the rim and risk damage to the bead for spring cleaning. Someone needs to come up with a sealant that gels evenly across the entire inside of the tire and that does not settle out. How about that Flex Seal guy..... ;-)
    I generally swap tires out 2+ times a year so my sealant is rarely fully dried. The dried skin that does occur peels out like the skin from a good ole fashioned sunburn.

    Finish Line has a sealer that is not supposed to dry out. It is very thick and I tried a sister product and could not get it to seal on initial setup.

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