Surly Lou vs Knard 4.8" or ?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Surly Lou vs Knard 4.8" or ?

    hey folks, would appreciate any feedback, rode mission V's, on one floaters, and bulldozers on a mongoose vinson, moved up to a Salsa Blackborow with Lou, Lou and very happy overall, and plan to keep Lou's as winter tires (preface just to say I have rode a few different tires). mainly ride about 60%crushed limestone, 40% single track. tire weight is least issue, looking for a 4.8' tire with close to same grippiness as Lou's, and possibly a bit less rolling resistance (rr) for non winter months. I have seen Buds get high marks for almost same grip as Lous with less rr. gentleman from Salsa suggested 4.8" Knards based on my mostly limestone riding habits. Bottom Line, an old guy, putting highest priority stability and grippiness, and if I can get those with less rr the better. Thanks for thoughts/experience with 4.8" Knards or others.

  2. #2
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    If I was looking for a tire with similar size and grip as the Lou but with less weight and rolling resistance, I'd be seriously looking at the Bontrager Barbegazi.
    I'm a mountain bike guide in southwest Utah

  3. #3
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    Been running 4.8Knard's on my Mayor for a few months now. I LOVE THEM. Great traction almost all the time. Roots and deep sticky mud can be an issue when Lou would just go over/through it. But on everything else their great.

  4. #4
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    I have absolutely no idea why Salsa puts Lou on both ends of that bike. For snow, Bud on the front and Lou on the rear is the way to go.
    For EVERYTHING ELSE, I say Bud on the front and 4.8 Knard on the rear. That's what I'm currently running and it's nothing short of awesome. I have not tried the Knard on snow yet. We haven't had any. I have a feeling a Knard on the front in snow is not going to be ideal but like I said, haven't tried it yet.
    One of my friends just put 4.8 Knards on his Darryl equipped fat bike and he loves em.
    He had Husker Dus before so this is his first experience full on fat.
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  5. #5
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    I have Bud and Knard for summer use, and it is a great setup. Zero compromise for traction on the front with Bud, and the Knard does great on everything except mud. I don't think I would ever use a Knard in the front, that just wouldn't give me confidence. I have a buddy that loves jumbo jims for everything except winter riding, and they weigh a bunch less than Knards.

    Now for winter, Bud and Lou are king! I have a knard on the back right now and we have a little bit of packed snow, and the Knard does a lot of moving in the rear when cornering, which I have to get used to. Again, based on how it is acting in the rear, I would never run the knard in front in snow.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    I have Bud and Knard for summer use, and it is a great setup. Zero compromise for traction on the front with Bud, and the Knard does great on everything except mud. I don't think I would ever use a Knard in the front, that just wouldn't give me confidence. I have a buddy that loves jumbo jims for everything except winter riding, and they weigh a bunch less than Knards.

    Now for winter, Bud and Lou are king! I have a knard on the back right now and we have a little bit of packed snow, and the Knard does a lot of moving in the rear when cornering, which I have to get used to. Again, based on how it is acting in the rear, I would never run the knard in front in snow.
    What size knard are you running in the back with the Bud in the front? Are you running the 3.8 or the larger 4.8?

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  7. #7
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    ^4.8" Knard which ended up being wider than the Lou I had on the rear.

  8. #8
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    I ran the knards on my Blackborow all summer long. Great tire in sand and worked fine for general trail riding. Much lower rolling resistance on pavement or hardpack. Less traction on loose, muddy or leave covered areas. Picked up a Bud recently to put on the front while putting one of the Lous back on the rear for the winter. The Bud rolled much better than the Lou did and the traction with this combo would be hard to beat. I'm thinking about getting a second Bud for the rear.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by OddTrickStar View Post
    I ran the knards on my Blackborow all summer long. Great tire in sand and worked fine for general trail riding. Much lower rolling resistance on pavement or hardpack. Less traction on loose, muddy or leave covered areas. Picked up a Bud recently to put on the front while putting one of the Lous back on the rear for the winter. The Bud rolled much better than the Lou did and the traction with this combo would be hard to beat. I'm thinking about getting a second Bud for the rear.
    I put a Bud on the back after disliking the lou. Night and day. The Bud rolls so much better and I like it a lot. Probably will be my setup of choice for fall and winter.

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  10. #10
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    Some of the people locally have found running Lou/Lou is much better than having a Bud in the front.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Nothing to see here, move along folks.

  11. #11
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    I have a lou snow and 4.8 knard dry trails on rear. Works great. Never the other way around.

  12. #12
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    thanks for quick thoughtful replies folks! 4.8Knard for rear will happen come spring. with weird northern illinois winters (dry,wet,icy,snowy repeat...), does anyone see any negatives to "grip studding" my Lou, Lou combo on the Blackborow for winter (mainly a safety traction thing)? again, riding mostly crushed limestone, mixed with some single track and roads. thanks much!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dilligaff View Post
    Some of the people locally have found running Lou/Lou is much better than having a Bud in the front.
    Yep. Lou up front is the best in real nasty deep wet snow. My winter tire of choice. I run a Nate rear but if I could I'd run a Lou.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatbikenewbie View Post
    thanks for quick thoughtful replies folks! 4.8Knard for rear will happen come spring. with weird northern illinois winters (dry,wet,icy,snowy repeat...), does anyone see any negatives to "grip studding" my Lou, Lou combo on the Blackborow for winter (mainly a safety traction thing)? again, riding mostly crushed limestone, mixed with some single track and roads. thanks much!
    I'd go with the Barbegazzi in the rear, forget the Knard.
    It's fast rolling enough, and doesn't give up the traction it wetter conditions that the Knard does.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatbikenewbie View Post
    thanks for quick thoughtful replies folks! 4.8Knard for rear will happen come spring. with weird northern illinois winters (dry,wet,icy,snowy repeat...), does anyone see any negatives to "grip studding" my Lou, Lou combo on the Blackborow for winter (mainly a safety traction thing)? again, riding mostly crushed limestone, mixed with some single track and roads. thanks much!
    I may have missed a post but why do you need studs if you are riding mostly on crushed limestone?
    Latitude 61

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dilligaff View Post
    Some of the people locally have found running Lou/Lou is much better than having a Bud in the front.
    Interesting. For what conditions?

  17. #17
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    Snow and mud conditions. I don't run them myself but have spoken to people who have and the consensus is running double Lous is much more positive. I missed out on a new Bud for $50 that was a takeoff from someone making the switch. It's what my LBS now recommends for Maine riding.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by sryanak View Post
    I may have missed a post but why do you need studs if you are riding mostly on crushed limestone?
    when riding these mostly crushed limestone/partial blacktop trails thru the winter months with snow on them, the thaw, refreeze and pooling of water/ice in low spots can make for some slippery spots. just wondering if "grip studding both Lous's is over kill, or really has no negatives, just extra grip on icy patches. thanks much!

  19. #19
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    Ice? Yes to studs. I didn't use any studs last year, went down on an ice rut under the snow, busted ribs and spent the rest of the season looking at the snow instead of riding in it.

  20. #20
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    Last year, our snow was perfect for riding the entire winter. I did the entire season on Bud and Lou. I never encountered ice.
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  21. #21
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    4.8" Knard in the rear on 2" of fresh powder last night, did pretty well with climbing, but braking is lacking compared to lou. Off camber stuff will more than likely be an issue also

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