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    Studs - On the Cheap

    These are #6x3/8 pan head sheet metal screws. On the set I use on the 100's, I stud the outside and the 1st row in. I used this set all winter last year (in snow & ice only) Front's points are still plenty sharp.

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6514205455/" title="S1040003 by wardee61, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7175/6514205455_601a409da0_z.jpg" width="427" height="640" alt="S1040003"></a>

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6514206925/" title="S1040007 by wardee61, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7174/6514206925_c98b5c62b9_z.jpg" width="427" height="640" alt="S1040007"></a>

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6514213697/" title="S1040008 by wardee61, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7148/6514213697_719c5c1e94_z.jpg" width="640" height="427" alt="S1040008"></a>

    Here's the rear tire. The inside rows have dulled a little from rocks & gravel, but not enough to change them yet. Look closely and you'll see the next row(s) to the inside have been drilled and have "healed" closed nicely. Year before last when I 1st studded them I had studs in those rows too. Caused notable resistance on really firm surfaces... great climbing traction though.

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6514214685/" title="S1040009 by wardee61, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7023/6514214685_3f54ece5eb_z.jpg" width="427" height="640" alt="S1040009"></a>

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6514242217/" title="S1040011 by wardee61, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7149/6514242217_ebf1f141e9_z.jpg" width="640" height="427" alt="S1040011"></a>

    Here's one I just re-studded for use on my Large Marges. On these I don't stud the outside row because of the "rounder" profile they rarely come into play... also to close to the chainstays on that bike. This pair has been in use for three seasons and has seen some pavement (sometimes it turns to rain and the snow melts before you make it home). They'd gotten pretty well rounded off so it was time to replace them. I took them out last spring and used these tires on that bike for sand this summer... now back to studs for the winter season. I keep larry's on that bike unless these are really needed.

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6514217193/" title="S1040017 by wardee61, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7012/6514217193_511c6aacfb_z.jpg" width="427" height="640" alt="S1040017"></a>

    All I use for tube protection is Gorilla Tape. The outside rows are drilled on these (look close and you can see the little holes) in case I decide I need them. Sheet metal screws not only give you grip from the tips but also from the threads w/ sideways pressure. Best thing is, they're cheap, replaceable and removable. I drill a small hole that "heals" up pretty good when running un-studded.

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6514243135/" title="S1040019 by wardee61, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7024/6514243135_fafdab95dd_z.jpg" width="640" height="427" alt="S1040019"></a>
    Last edited by ward; 12-14-2011 at 10:36 PM.

  2. #2
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    Genius! Great work

  3. #3
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    Thanks for the great pics and write up! Do you know what size drill bit you use? Have you have any screws tear out of the rubber?

    These screws seem the best way to stud if you want to remove the studs for summer riding.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beachcomber View Post
    Thanks for the great pics and write up! Do you know what size drill bit you use? Have you have any screws tear out of the rubber?

    These screws seem the best way to stud if you want to remove the studs for summer riding.
    Bit: about 1/16". Not critical, anything smaller than the size of the shaft of the screw. I think they should fit tight. Never had one tear out, and I and friends have been doing this through the '80's and '90's on reg. mtb tires. In fact, on solid, slick ice, a "skinny" mtb w/ these will possibly out perform a fat bike... untill you get up to the snow. In fact, on hard ice I run a little more pressure to help "set" the studs.

    One important thing I forgot to mention, These can be dangerous!! When I run these I ALWAYS mount a rear rack- without exception!! That will prevent you from contacting them with your butt and other important parts when you're "off the back" on steep downhills & etc. They can also easily ruin your clothes, gloves and your friends tires if you get to close. Please be careful!!

  5. #5
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    I drill them with a drill press through the lug from the outside with a short section of 2x4 inside the tire to drill into. You can hold the lug flat against the 2x4 to get a good clean, straight hole.

  6. #6
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    Cool setup!

    I used metal screws in tires when riding over frozen lakes 15 years ago. I had issues with screws pushing inside the tire when going over hard surfaces. It might be the combination of thin rubber that the tire had and and those long metal screws. I solved this problem by cutting blocks of aluminum for the screw to go in.

    I'm getting inspired to do this again on a fat tire and go frozen lake riding again.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ward View Post
    They can also easily ruin your clothes, gloves and your friends tires if you get to close. Please be careful!!
    Sounds like we could have a Fatback Death Race Last bike rolling wins! Trails would be so much prettier with splashes of red don't you think, white's just so boring.

    Thanks for the tip could see how those could do some damage, maybe the car studs are safer
    Last edited by Beachcomber; 12-17-2011 at 03:30 PM. Reason: I kannt spel good

  8. #8
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    Ward you getting much snow riding in? This season has been terrible over here so far- even in the high country

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beachcomber View Post
    Sounds like we could have a Fatback Death Race Last bike rolling wins! Trails would be so much prettier with splashes of red don't you think, white's just so boring...
    It was like that a few years ago at the StrathPuffer 24 hour. It's run in January and the course was sheet ice - this was before ice tyres were easily available - and of course, racers aren't going to let a little detail like that stop them.
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  10. #10
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    Hey Ward I'm thinking about doing this to a set just for river running and just wondering if you've ever tried running a set down the center of the tire as well? I will be doing it to a set of Larrys.

    Thanks.....Bob

    Edit: Oh I just saw where you tried them in the row next to the center....sorry for the dumb question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Hey Ward I'm thinking about doing this to a set just for river running and just wondering if you've ever tried running a set down the center of the tire as well? I will be doing it to a set of Larrys.

    Thanks.....Bob

    Edit: Oh I just saw where you tried them in the row next to the center....sorry for the dumb question.
    Yah, down the center created "stud drag" on long rides. Great for an ultimate climbing tire though. I haven't studded a Larry yet. the "rows" are spaced a little different. And the studs will "stand" at a different angle on different rims too. Also, the screws I've bought have varied a bit over the years. Some are a little longer and pointier, and some are a little shorter and more blunt.

    Good luck! Can't wait to see how they turn out!

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    Well how are they working out? I have thought about buying a 27tpi set to stud. I ride mostly trails but the occasional ice rink (packed dirt road) and so studs worked well on my previous bike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by juram View Post
    Well how are they working out? I have thought about buying a 27tpi set to stud. I ride mostly trails but the occasional ice rink (packed dirt road) and so studs worked well on my previous bike.
    Sheet metal screws may seem lame or un professional... but when your talking about slippery ice- ice w/ water on it, they out perform everything else! I've been able to peddle right on through sections w/o slowing down that I would have had serious trouble walking across. These are like crampons for your bike. People may shy away 'cause of weight or etc... but on some rides, if you didn't have 'em you wouldn't be going. Even on compact snow rides I can rip through the corners and stick it to the climbs. The only condition where they might get in the way is when your trying to stay on top of a crust... might "saw" through depending on how thick/solid the crust is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ward View Post
    These are #6x3/8 pan head sheet metal screws. On the set I use on the 100's, I stud the outside and the 1st row in. I used this set all winter last year (in snow & ice only) Front's points are still plenty sharp.

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6514205455/" title="S1040003 by wardee61, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7175/6514205455_601a409da0_z.jpg" width="427" height="640" alt="S1040003"></a>

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6514206925/" title="S1040007 by wardee61, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7174/6514206925_c98b5c62b9_z.jpg" width="427" height="640" alt="S1040007"></a>

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6514213697/" title="S1040008 by wardee61, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7148/6514213697_719c5c1e94_z.jpg" width="640" height="427" alt="S1040008"></a>

    Here's the rear tire. The inside rows have dulled a little from rocks & gravel, but not enough to change them yet. Look closely and you'll see the next row(s) to the inside have been drilled and have "healed" closed nicely. Year before last when I 1st studded them I had studs in those rows too. Caused notable resistance on really firm surfaces... great climbing traction though.

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6514214685/" title="S1040009 by wardee61, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7023/6514214685_3f54ece5eb_z.jpg" width="427" height="640" alt="S1040009"></a>

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6514242217/" title="S1040011 by wardee61, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7149/6514242217_ebf1f141e9_z.jpg" width="640" height="427" alt="S1040011"></a>

    Here's one I just re-studded for use on my Large Marges. On these I don't stud the outside row because of the "rounder" profile they rarely come into play... also to close to the chainstays on that bike. This pair has been in use for three seasons and has seen some pavement (sometimes it turns to rain and the snow melts before you make it home). They'd gotten pretty well rounded off so it was time to replace them. I took them out last spring and used these tires on that bike for sand this summer... now back to studs for the winter season. I keep larry's on that bike unless these are really needed.

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6514217193/" title="S1040017 by wardee61, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7012/6514217193_511c6aacfb_z.jpg" width="427" height="640" alt="S1040017"></a>

    All I use for tube protection is Gorilla Tape. The outside rows are drilled on these (look close and you can see the little holes) in case I decide I need them. Sheet metal screws not only give you grip from the tips but also from the threads w/ sideways pressure. Best thing is, they're cheap, replaceable and removable. I drill a small hole that "heals" up pretty good when running un-studded.

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6514243135/" title="S1040019 by wardee61, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7024/6514243135_fafdab95dd_z.jpg" width="640" height="427" alt="S1040019"></a>
    Exactly the way I made my studded tires in the '80s. Could ride places I could not walk, and do nose wheelies on glare ice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockyRider View Post
    Ward you getting much snow riding in? This season has been terrible over here so far- even in the high country
    Nope. Had snow for a couple days but it was here and gone. Lot's of thick frost riding though from freezing fog (dang inversions). They're saying snow is on the way, for the mtns anyway. Planning to ride next week... just waitin' on the weather to decide where.

  16. #16
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    Just bought some screws

    My ride today with Freddie Revenze tires was nasty, really a lot of drag. I have an extra set of older Endos that look like new, so I just bought some of the sheet metal screws you posted. Definitely worth trying.

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    Bump...

    Bumping this one up for hit600. He's with quality control...

  18. #18
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    When friends and I used to build ghetto studded tires up 18 years ago we used heat treated screws...WAY sharp and considerably more significant longevity... .02
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  19. #19
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    Almost there

    I've got 1&1/2 tire done so far using Ward's method. One tire is already mounted on a spare rim. Should work good for me, I never used studs at all last year. Prior to that, I'd only use studded tires 1-3 times during the winter. This is great, I can put my original Endo's to use (doubt anyone would want to buy those 5-year-old Endos anyway) and sell my Nokians off, cutting down my tire "pile". I never liked riding on Nokian studs, whenever there's a slight amount of snow on top of ice, there's still a bit of slippage. Good for road rides, or smooth dirt road rides, but I do not do those type of rides in icy conditons that much. Longer screws should do better for me. Rarely ride any frozen lakes either, except on normal fat tires - seems the frozen snow on top always provides good traction the few times I've done it.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by damnitman View Post
    When friends and I used to build ghetto studded tires up 18 years ago we used heat treated screws...WAY sharp and considerably more significant longevity... .02
    Where'd you find them? And, what type of heads were they available in? I've found some black hardened ones a while back but they had big, square allen heads. Pan heads are much easier to protect the tube from. Love to find some hardened pan heads! 'course, if they're a dollar a piece might as well go w/ the grip studs.

  21. #21
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    If I remember correctly the were for use in high temp applications like with wood stoves / chimneys...they were a black pan head.
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    Quote Originally Posted by damnitman View Post
    If I remember correctly the were for use in high temp applications like with wood stoves / chimneys...they were a black pan head.
    Thanks! I'll go searchin'...

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    Found a bunch of product choices in pan or button head. They range from stainless; case hardened; steel/alloy w/ different types of plating... wonder which is the hardest? Metallurgy guy's please chime in. Prices are from around $3:00/100 to $15.00/100 for #6x3/8"... that may be wholesale... not sure.

  25. #25
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    Also available in titanium.

    Pan Phillips

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach View Post
    Also available in titanium.

    Pan Phillips
    Wow, those look cool. I know they won't corrode... but how hard are they compared to other types. Not as worried about corrosion as hardness. Might have to give them a call...

  27. #27
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    From wikipedia:

    "It is fairly hard (although not as hard as some grades of heat-treated steel), "

    Titanium - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  28. #28
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    We need titanium nitride coated, case hardened steel screws.

  29. #29
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    What do you guys think of maybe a self tapping thread?
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  30. #30
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    I've considered them, but some of the grip we get w/ standard SM screws seems to come from the threads that go all the way to the tip. Unlike cars or quads, we lean our tires over and (especially when we're running low pressures) they get "bent over" on the harder stuff. Seems like the treads give 'em grip on all sides, especially when sliding sideways.

  31. #31
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    I have used regular screws and self tapping screws (and sheet metal screws, and chains) on various tires over the years and found I liked the self tapping ones the best. They don't seem to introduce as much drag as regular screws, grip well and last much longer in my experience.

    I wrote a tutorial a few years ago on the unicycle forums, unfortunately the pictures all disappeared but I think it still has lots of good pertinent info

    Studding a MUni tire - Unicyclist Community

    The Gorilla tape is a much better idea than my split tube.

  32. #32
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    If the knobby block splits, should I back the screw out and just skip that spot, glue it somehow, or leave it in?

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by juram View Post
    If the knobby block splits, should I back the screw out and just skip that spot, glue it somehow, or leave it in?
    I have yet to split one... but I've only studded Endo's. I can see how it might happen on a Larry w/ the narrower lugs. They're also taller so the little 3/8" screws I used might not stick out very far (is you're using a Larry). I'm using a pretty small drill bit too (not more than 1/16") and a drill press which probably helps keep my holes straight and in place. Not sure what to do w/ a split lug... probably just go with it unless you think it will further damage the tire.

  34. #34
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    I have Endos too. Drilling was fine, but when I put the screw in they split a little. Guess I was a little off on my drilling...Anyway, I just backed them out. I figure better safe than sorry. I don't want it pushing through and lodging a screw in my tire. They look great. I plan to try them tonight. Thanks for the help.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by juram View Post
    I have Endos too. Drilling was fine, but when I put the screw in they split a little. Guess I was a little off on my drilling...Anyway, I just backed them out. I figure better safe than sorry. I don't want it pushing through and lodging a screw in my tire. They look great. I plan to try them tonight. Thanks for the help.
    If your using older tires the lugs might also be a little more "brittle". Have fun! I rode mine yesterday on crusty snow w/ lots on ice from frozen puddles. The studs did they're job... could not have ridden nearly as hard w/o them! Would have had to slow down & be careful on the slippery spots... but w/ studs can "rhino" on through. And since they don't stick out very far, they don't seem to hinder me on the rocky/dirt sections.

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    Took your idea and modified if for my Nates. It works great. I did a V pattern in front and a diamond with fewer studs on the rear. Both have 3/8 stainless screws in the middle and 1/2 on the outside. Grip is amazing and they don't pick up all of the leaves when I hit the occasional bare spot. Love my bike...love my Nates.

    EDIT - Have a studded set of Endos too. More arrows in my quiver in terms of tire choice for conditions.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Studs - On the Cheap-imgp7848.jpg  

    Studs - On the Cheap-imgp7847.jpg  


  37. #37
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    Grainger's has self-drilling #6 x 3/8" case-hardened screws. Case hardened = tough as hell on the outer surface, so it should hold up well against the occasional dirt / rock / asphalt excursion.



    Drilling Screw, #6-20, 3/8 L, Pk 100 - Self Drilling Screws - Screws - 2DU88 : Grainger Industrial Supply

    I'd still drill a small pilot hole first. Lots of DIY studders use these so they just protrude through the knob without exposing threads - less likely to collect leaves and twigs without the threads.

    I guess it depends on the terrain you'll be riding and the cost/benefit between maximum number of sharp edges contacting the ice vs. likelihood of detritus fouling.

  38. #38
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    And if someone is interested in case hardening non case hardened metals, here's a simple guide. Case Hardening of Mild Steel

    Maybe torch a bunch of screws on a fire brick or ceramic tile, dump them into a strainer basket, quench in used motor oil for the carbon, re-heat, then quench in water. Probably a ton of work, but that's the kind of stuff we tinkerers do, right?

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