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  1. #1
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    studded tires

    Are there any companies making fat bike studded tires other than 45NRTh, Vee, and bontrager? thats it? I'm looking for a 4" or bigger studded tire for next season, Dillingers are just too bloody expensive, other options?
    thanks

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    I'm only aware of the 3 as well.
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    I just picked up a set of gnarwhals cause my LBS had them 20% off. 45north stuff never goes on sale.

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    most lbs shops are studding tires with grip studs, they work great!

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    How about stud ready tires? I've got an old set of Nokian 296 and would put in the elbow grease to move the studs over.
    On a different note, How are the gnarwahls?
    How big a lug do you need for the grip studs? I have a set of 4.8 juggernaut sports I'm thinking of studding.

  6. #6
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    Find a good deal on the D4s, and then stud them yourself to save a little $$. If you look around, you can find some good deals on the carbide-tipped, 'mushroom-head' studs.
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    My personal opinion is there's no free lunch when it comes to studded fat tires. I tried to find an inexpesive solution and failed.

    Grip studs are $1 each and you have to run tubeless.

    You don't have to spend $500 on studded D5's but you will spend $ or have to make compromises.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff_G View Post
    My personal opinion is there's no free lunch when it comes to studded fat tires. I tried to find an inexpesive solution and failed.

    Grip studs are $1 each and you have to run tubeless.

    You don't have to spend $500 on studded D5's but you will spend $ or have to make compromises.
    I've been running grip studs with tubes for 2+ seasons. No problems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ReXTless View Post
    I've been running grip studs with tubes for 2+ seasons. No problems.
    Me too!

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    I assume you spent $200+ on the Grip Studs? (I was planning on 300) Do you remove them in the spring or have a dedicated winter tire?

    For me that added up to close to what I spent on studded D5's. I'm not arguing for or against any particular set up but for me there was not cheap solution.

    I run paved surfaces 50% of the time or I may have just put sheet metal screws in. I put them in my kids bike and they are working out really well. But, he is not riding high miles and pavement miles are very low.
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  11. #11
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    studded tires-image.jpg
    Here's the stock barbagazis with 126 studs.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff_G View Post
    I assume you spent $200+ on the Grip Studs? (I was planning on 300) Do you remove them in the spring or have a dedicated winter tire?

    For me that added up to close to what I spent on studded D5's. I'm not arguing for or against any particular set up but for me there was not cheap solution. (I run paved surfaces 50% of the time)
    mine are on a dedicated winter tire. The ice traction with 200 grip studs in a Bud/ Ground Control is far better than my D5 with the new concave stud. The Bud/GC is much slower rolling than the D5. Speed or traction you cannot have both. Summer it is HuDu or Jumbo Jim 4.0 or Ground Controls.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdaigneault View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Here's the stock barbagazis with 126 studs.
    Studding my Barbs was my next choice. I assumed I would need 150 per tire so $300+, grinding the tips and/or tubeless and I would have to remove them in the spring.
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    I'm running Snowshoes XL's studded with #8 1/2 self-drilling pan-head screws. Only 80 studs on each tire, cost me about $10, and works fantastic. Ridding icy trails feels like shredding in the summer, and they help a bunch in hard and softer snow. I started with a lower number to test, and honestly don't see a need for going higher then 80 per tire. Climbs shear ice like a champ, just don't mash.

    First time self-studding was slow on the first tire at 1h30-45, but the second tire I completely inverted the tire and was done in about 50 minutes. I don't think I'm ever going back to manufacturer studded tires.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff_G View Post

    You don't have to spend $500 on studded D5's but you will spend $ or have to make compromises.
    If you buy the D5's unstudded and stud them yourself you can save $80-$90 on the pair, making them hurt not quite as bad.

    A studded Bu/Lou would be perfect and I find myself wishing the D5's were wider with deeper tread.
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    Do you think the same could be done to the Hodag 27.5 x 3.8? I was thinking not, since it is heavily siped, but this looks similar.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dilligaff View Post
    If you buy the D5's unstudded and stud them yourself you can save $80-$90 on the pair, making them hurt not quite as bad.

    A studded Bu/Lou would be perfect and I find myself wishing the D5's were wider with deeper tread.
    Are the Unstudded D5s or the Unstudded snowshoes stud ready? Do they have the holes for the studs? The photos I've seen on line don't have the stud holes.

  18. #18
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    The Snowshoe XL and unstudded Dillinger 5's are stud ready. The regular Snowshoe and 2XL are not stud ready (they have no stud pocket).
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  19. #19
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    Yes, studless Snowshoe xl's and Dillinger 4 and 5's have stud pockets.
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    If you really want to ride when its icy don't eff around, get the D4 studded. They are super light for having studs and they are the best studs. Think of it this way, for 450 you just transformed your bike into 2 bikes or 1 bike that you can ride a lot more. Where are you riding? please tell me its on trails, if it is then my answer for you is this: Yes its that time of year when almost every trail around becomes icy, WHY?: cause everyone is riding them and packing them down. Solution: If you want to ride, you need studs bud. I'm sure there are other ways but when I did my research LAST winter I decided to go with the D4 studded.

  21. #21
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    My riding is entirely off road. Ive been riding for 13 years on rigid single speeds and I rode through the winter for 5 years on skinny studded tires: Nokian extremes. I have no question that I want and need studs. I moved away from frozen winters with good trails for 5 years, and now I am back in an area with good trails and frozen winters. I decided to try fat biking and got one this week. I've been looking for studded tires, but none of the shops around here have studded tires and they all say they are hard to get from their suppliers. My 26er single speed is retired, but I still have the Nokian extremes with almost 600 studs just sitting there. I have been trying to decide of I am able to stud my current tires with grip studs (one of my long time riding buddies uses these in NH and Vermont and swears by them) or if I want to get a snowshoe or D4 or D5. I was wondering if I could stud my own tires with the studs I already have because in the end I don't want to just waste them and $450 is a lot for a set of new tires. It sounds like moving the studs over might be worth a shot.

    Thanks to all for the info.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff_G View Post
    I assume you spent $200+ on the Grip Studs? (I was planning on 300) Do you remove them in the spring or have a dedicated winter tire?

    For me that added up to close to what I spent on studded D5's. I'm not arguing for or against any particular set up but for me there was not cheap solution.

    I run paved surfaces 50% of the time or I may have just put sheet metal screws in. I put them in my kids bike and they are working out really well. But, he is not riding high miles and pavement miles are very low.
    Spending the $500 on the D5s was painful, but with all the riding I've done in the last two seasons, probably among the best $500 I've ever spent, in allowing me to get out and riding in virtually any condition with safety. There are places on the bike I just can't justify what some of the stuff costs, like $400, cranksets, cassettes, rear hubs, and dropper posts, but this is one place where I feel the money was well worth it and I have no buyers remorse.

    D4s are a staple here, I'm surprised I don't see more D5s though, but maybe that's due to how many bikes out there can't take the bigger tires. D4 is ok most of the time, but with our low snow airing down the D5 on a wide rim gives some much needed relief, not to mention it's ability in every other situation.
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    Think of how much time your spending on looking for a cheaper version when you could just be buying and riding them right naow!

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinzinnati View Post
    I've been looking for studded tires, but none of the shops around here have studded tires and they all say they are hard to get from their suppliers. My 26er single speed is retired, but I still have the Nokian extremes with almost 600 studs just sitting there. I have been trying to decide of I am able to stud my current tires with grip studs (one of my long time riding buddies uses these in NH and Vermont and swears by them) or if I want to get a snowshoe or D4 or D5. I was wondering if I could stud my own tires with the studs I already have because in the end I don't want to just waste them and $450 is a lot for a set of new tires. It sounds like moving the studs over might be worth a shot.

    Thanks to all for the info.
    Go to Bikeman.com and order up a set of whatever you want, they have tons in stock and offer free shipping on orders over $100. They also price match. I bought my D5's from them unstudded for $120 a tire. I also bought the studs but did use a few from my old Nokian's to avoid buying extra (I needed 16 and didn't want to buy 25) and they worked just fine, just pop them out and pop them in. The concave studs hook up MUCH better than the standard studs though. Something to keep in mind.

    If you encounter deep snow at all, consider the XL over the D5. There have been lots of times I wish I went XL over my D5's.
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  25. #25
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    The best studded tires are the ones you make yourself from $30 in hardware store bought fasteners. DYI. That's my tip from an ex-ice racer.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Spending the $500 on the D5s was painful, but with all the riding I've done in the last two seasons, probably among the best $500 I've ever spent, in allowing me to get out and riding in virtually any condition with safety. There are places on the bike I just can't justify what some of the stuff costs, like $400, cranksets, cassettes, rear hubs, and dropper posts, but this is one place where I feel the money was well worth it and I have no buyers remorse.

    D4s are a staple here, I'm surprised I don't see more D5s though, but maybe that's due to how many bikes out there can't take the bigger tires. D4 is ok most of the time, but with our low snow airing down the D5 on a wide rim gives some much needed relief, not to mention it's ability in every other situation.
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  27. #27
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    I am kinda in the same boat as the OP in that I would like to go the studded route at least for next year but I refuse to pay more for 2 studded bike tires than I paid for 4 studded car tires.

    The other issue is that I need 4......for both my bike and my wife's bike. And there is no way I am paying $1000 to do that.

    One Option I am considering is possibly throwing studs on the fronts only for now as I am more concerned about washing out than spinning out at slow speed up a hill.

    Then again part of me says why take a risk riding in icy conditions anyways.....live and ride another day but I would lose a few weeks potentially.

    From what I have seen I don't really get all fired up looking at the D5s.....and people I have ridden with on D5s haven't had remarkably better traction than I do with Snowshoes or my wife does on Kenda Juggs (those are sweet btw).
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dilligaff View Post
    Go to Bikeman.com and order up a set of whatever you want, they have tons in stock and offer free shipping on orders over $100. They also price match. I bought my D5's from them unstudded for $120 a tire. I also bought the studs but did use a few from my old Nokian's to avoid buying extra (I needed 16 and didn't want to buy 25) and they worked just fine, just pop them out and pop them in. The concave studs hook up MUCH better than the standard studs though. Something to keep in mind.

    If you encounter deep snow at all, consider the XL over the D5. There have been lots of times I wish I went XL over my D5's.
    Thank you. That was the answer I was looking for. I am surprised that the shops I am calling do not know that this is possible. I should have just called bath cycle and ski and chatted with them. They are not that far from where I am, but I try to business with the smaller shops closer to me if I can.

    Thanks again.

  29. #29
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    Anyone ever use the Schwalbe replacement studs on a non studded XL or D4 or 5?

    50 studs for $15-20

    Or find some older Nokian skinny studded tires on closeout and pull the studs.....
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by AC/BC View Post
    The best studded tires are the ones you make yourself from $30 in hardware store bought fasteners. DYI. That's my tip from an ex-ice racer.
    While those DIYs may work great on ice, they will not stand up to pavement or rock like carbide tipped studs do. Tubeless can be a total hassle with tires studded from the inside out too.

    I would like to see one of the manufacturers make a fat tire with studs like the original Nokian Freddie's Revenz. Those would be the ultimate.
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinzinnati View Post
    Thank you. That was the answer I was looking for. I am surprised that the shops I am calling do not know that this is possible. I should have just called bath cycle and ski and chatted with them. They are not that far from where I am, but I try to business with the smaller shops closer to me if I can.

    Thanks again.
    They are my LBS and good people. It's a small shop that sells quite a bit online, so it's not like dealing with some huge conglomeration. I've been to the owner's house for a party and bring the shop guys beer and food occasionally. Davis (owner) also dosesn't throw anything away and I was able to find a brand new, still in the wrapper, Tange fork for my 1988 Ti Merlin road bike. What are the odds.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by radair View Post
    I would like to see one of the manufacturers make a fat tire with studs like the original Nokian Freddie's Revenz. Those would be the ultimate.
    Put some spacers under the studs and you'll get more protrusion without compromising the carcass.
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinzinnati View Post
    My riding is entirely off road. Ive been riding for 13 years on rigid single speeds and I rode through the winter for 5 years on skinny studded tires: Nokian extremes. I have no question that I want and need studs. I moved away from frozen winters with good trails for 5 years, and now I am back in an area with good trails and frozen winters. I decided to try fat biking and got one this week. I've been looking for studded tires, but none of the shops around here have studded tires and they all say they are hard to get from their suppliers. My 26er single speed is retired, but I still have the Nokian extremes with almost 600 studs just sitting there. I have been trying to decide of I am able to stud my current tires with grip studs (one of my long time riding buddies uses these in NH and Vermont and swears by them) or if I want to get a snowshoe or D4 or D5. I was wondering if I could stud my own tires with the studs I already have because in the end I don't want to just waste them and $450 is a lot for a set of new tires. It sounds like moving the studs over might be worth a shot.

    Thanks to all for the info.
    If I was riding exclusively off road, wanted really good ice traction and did not want to spend a lot of money I would go with Kold Kutters. No question about it. (for me)
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Spending the $500 on the D5s was painful, but with all the riding I've done in the last two seasons, probably among the best $500 I've ever spent, in allowing me to get out and riding in virtually any condition with safety. There are places on the bike I just can't justify what some of the stuff costs, like $400, cranksets, cassettes, rear hubs, and dropper posts, but this is one place where I feel the money was well worth it and I have no buyers remorse.

    D4s are a staple here, I'm surprised I don't see more D5s though, but maybe that's due to how many bikes out there can't take the bigger tires. D4 is ok most of the time, but with our low snow airing down the D5 on a wide rim gives some much needed relief, not to mention it's ability in every other situation.
    It was SUPER painful. However, that fact that my brain isn't spinning non stop worrying about ice all the time makes it worth it. I was not enjoying many of my rides. I'm too old and need to decrease the odds I am going to break a hip.
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by River19 View Post
    I am kinda in the same boat as the OP in that I would like to go the studded route at least for next year but I refuse to pay more for 2 studded bike tires than I paid for 4 studded car tires.
    People who are quoting $500 for studded D5s aren't doing their homework. If you don't want to pay for the convenience of pre-studded tires, then find a decent price on a pair of unstudded D5s - you should be able to get a pair for around $300. With a little searching, you should be able to find 300 carbide-tipped studs for less than $45. Pour yourself a pint or two and take an hour to stud them yourself. The pre-tapped pockets make it super easy. I've been rolling on these for 4 months and haven't lost a single stud. Traction is nothing short of game-changing on ice/mixed surfaces.

    Who gives a shit how the price compares to car tires? If you want to ride a fattie in in winter on mixed surfaces, this is what it costs. And it's a hell of a lot cheaper that a trip to the ER.

    Then again part of me says why take a risk riding in icy conditions anyways.....live and ride another day but I would lose a few weeks potentially.
    .
    If you want to ride in icy conditions, ride studded tires, period. I'm not going to say there is "no risk" when riding on ice with studs, but it is so substantially reduced that I really don't even think about it anymore.
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  36. #36
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    Pre-studded fat tires is one area where the "fat tax" is still alive and well. Hopefully economies of scale and additional competition will start to push these prices down. After all, the top of the line Nokian Hakka 26x2.2 with 300 studs a tire cost less than $100 at street prices and they're hardly producing millions of those.

    I'd like to see decent studded 4.5+ options in the $150 range in the next couple of years. Given the rapid expansion of fatbiking, this pricing seems plausible at least.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smithhammer View Post
    People who are quoting $500 for studded D5s aren't doing their homework. If you don't want to pay for the convenience of pre-studded tires, then find a decent price on a pair of unstudded D5s - you should be able to get a pair for around $300. With a little searching, you should be able to find 300 carbide-tipped studs for less than $45. Pour yourself a pint or two and take an hour to stud them yourself. The pre-tapped pockets make it super easy. I've been rolling on these for 4 months and haven't lost a single stud. Traction is nothing short of game-changing on ice/mixed surfaces.

    Who gives a shit how the price compares to car tires? If you want to ride a fattie in in winter on mixed surfaces, this is what it costs. And it's a hell of a lot cheaper that a trip to the ER.



    If you want to ride in icy conditions, ride studded tires, period. I'm not going to say there is "no risk" when riding on ice with studs, but it is so substantially reduced that I really don't even think about it anymore.

    I did just that, got the cheapest Dillinger that I could find which happened to be 27tpi Dillinger 4 studless and bought carbide tip 'mushroom head' studs from Amazon and a Schwalbe stud tool with additional 50 Schwalbe studs in the box. Total was still almost $350CAD back in November.

    Decided to go with 'factory studded tires' over Kold Kutters as I do have to ride some pavement to get to trails and thought Dillinger/XL type of tire will be more of a set it and forget it type of deal. Put it on in November, take off end of April and don't worry about it.

    Personally I'm a bit disappointed with the performance of the Dillingers. Don't get me wrong, they certainly help a ton on icy trails etc, but best way it put it would be for the money I expected more. I guess I would feel more ok with it if I invested $200 instead of $350. Most likely those Amazon carbide and Schwalbe studs are inferior to 45nrth concave studs that everybody likes. These have pointy and flat heads, not concave.

    Good thing is that with mostly snow riding tires show pretty much no wear and since I have Floaters for summer these will be coming off once winter is over. That means they should last me years and down the road I can try better quality studs in them.

    Also, it is super easy and does not take that long to stud a set of tires by yourself. I don't quite understand why many people see this as an issue. I can probably do a pair in 3 hours and a few beers while watching tv.
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  38. #38
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    Running a used D 4 in the back of my Farley. The front has a V shoeshoe with the 45 north studs I put in myself, that's the way to go.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by kryten View Post
    Decided to go with 'factory studded tires' over Kold Kutters as I do have to ride some pavement to get to trails and thought Dillinger/XL type of tire will be more of a set it and forget it type of deal. Put it on in November, take off end of April and don't worry about it.
    Keep in mind that if you remove the studs and keep riding the Dillys for the summer, a lot of those stud pockets are going to be filled with grit, making it a ***** to re-stud them again next winter. I thought about doing this at one time as well, but ultimately decided my D5's are going to be a dedicated winter tire, and I'll probably run H-Dus this summer.

    Personally I'm a bit disappointed with the performance of the Dillingers. Don't get me wrong, they certainly help a ton on icy trails etc, but best way it put it would be for the money I expected more.
    Can you be more specific? The certainly don't excel in the deep and loose like Bud/Lou, etc. but they also perform much better on everything else than Bud/Lou, etc. in my experience. I think they are a great all-around winter tire if you want something larger than 3.8," but conditions and experiences differ, so I'm just curious to hear more thoughts.
    "The only way we can truly control the outcome of a ride is not going on it, which is a choice I'm unwilling to make." -K.B.

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    Don't know if anyone's mentioned yet, but these studs seem pretty on-par with those in my old studded nokians...

    Bicycle Tire Studs Carbide Tip Aluminum Body Qty 100 250 500 | eBay

    I got 350 and avoided the smallest knobs on the sides of my XLs, which seem pretty small for receiving studs even though they have holes. The tires don't stick quite like my old nokians with their dense pattern, but no current fat tire could match that.

    Oh, unstudded XLs were $185...so $250 all in.

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    I purchased 150 Grip Studs for $135 on Ebay. Put 60 up front on Bud and 80 out back on Lou. Awsome! No problem on ice. I don't believe you need as many Grip Studs as you would regular studs. They are so much more aggressive.


    Compairing Grip Studs to the studs I've see on D4's or XL's, the carbide spike in a Grip Stud is larger in diameter and taller. Those suckers bite on ice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smithhammer View Post
    Keep in mind that if you remove the studs and keep riding the Dillys for the summer, a lot of those stud pockets are going to be filled with grit, making it a ***** to re-stud them again next winter. I thought about doing this at one time as well, but ultimately decided my D5's are going to be a dedicated winter tire, and I'll probably run H-Dus this summer.


    Can you be more specific? The certainly don't excel in the deep and loose like Bud/Lou, etc. but they also perform much better on everything else than Bud/Lou, etc. in my experience. I think they are a great all-around winter tire if you want something larger than 3.8," but conditions and experiences differ, so I'm just curious to hear more thoughts.
    I studed those tire brand new so they were clean. If I ever decide to replace these studs with concave ones down the road, I will not ride them unstudded so I won't have to worry about dirt getting into the stud pockets. I have Floaters for the occasional summer ride and spring/fall no snow rides. In summer I mostly ride my FS bike anyway. It is a very good point though, and one reason why Dillingers are a dedicated winter tire for me.

    As for the performance of the Dillingers, I don't have a ton of experience with other fat bike tires, but I expected more bite on ice. Again, this may be due to inferior studs as well as me having unrealistic expectations. I think the front tends to wash out more than I would like and would not mind them having a bit more aggressive thread. Just for the record these are mounted on 70mm rims.

    They definitely make winter riding a lot safer, so in that respect, they did their job for me, but they certainly don't allow riding anything as icy as some Kold Kutter user claim to be able to ride. (Once again this is with 27 Dillinger 4s with Amazon carbide studs, so factory studded D4 may be better? Idk, never had a chance to try any other studded fat bike tire...)
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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onestep4me View Post
    I purchased 150 Grip Studs for $135 on Ebay. Put 60 up front on Bud and 80 out back on Lou. Awsome! No problem on ice. I don't believe you need as many Grip Studs as you would regular studs. They are so much more aggressive.


    Compairing Grip Studs to the studs I've see on D4's or XL's, the carbide spike in a Grip Stud is larger in diameter and taller. Those suckers bite on ice.
    Good to know, thanks. Maybe I'll try 150 on my kid's bike next year instead of the sheet metal screws.

    Anyone have experience removing and reusing grip studs? I doubt I will have dedicated winter tires for his bike.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff_G View Post
    Anyone have experience removing and reusing grip studs? I doubt I will have dedicated winter tires for his bike.
    A buddy of mine runs Jumbo Jims year round. He removes his Grip Studs for the Summer and puts them back on for the Winter. This is his second winter doing so. Said it is no issue.

  45. #45
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    This is my second season on the concave D-5's.
    Still sharp as heck.
    They (45NRTH) claim as the studs wear, they actually get sharper, instead of duller.
    Got the Wife a new bike this winter.
    Put the D-5 studs on it before it ever hit the trail.
    I don't care about the cost. Safety is a prime concern. Especially with her.
    Around here, the freeze thaw cycles make all the trails treacherous at any given time...

    YMMV
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    luckily my bike came with Snowshoe XL's. I bought 300 studs off Amazon for $50 and the Schwalbe tool kit with 50 studs for $25....just have to install them now.
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    You can get the lower TPI tire for 165 each, with the same superior studs. They are widely available.

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    I bought a "used" set of D4s for local fat bike races. The best investment in winter biking! They have solid grip when none studded bikes are going down... I have seen it many a time. Now I use them all the time to rip around. So safe!!!

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smithhammer View Post
    People who are quoting $500 for studded D5s aren't doing their homework. If you don't want to pay for the convenience of pre-studded tires, then find a decent price on a pair of unstudded D5s - you should be able to get a pair for around $300. With a little searching, you should be able to find 300 carbide-tipped studs for less than $45. Pour yourself a pint or two and take an hour to stud them yourself. The pre-tapped pockets make it super easy. I've been rolling on these for 4 months and haven't lost a single stud. Traction is nothing short of game-changing on ice/mixed surfaces.

    Who gives a shit how the price compares to car tires? If you want to ride a fattie in in winter on mixed surfaces, this is what it costs. And it's a hell of a lot cheaper that a trip to the ER.



    If you want to ride in icy conditions, ride studded tires, period. I'm not going to say there is "no risk" when riding on ice with studs, but it is so substantially reduced that I really don't even think about it anymore.
    Easy there Killer.......

    D5s studded seem to be $215-240 everywhere I have seen them without tax and shipping, so $500 is about right +/- it is what it is......if you know of cheaper, post a link please.

    Unstudded $140ish......+$60-90 for studs depending on how many I want to throw in........so call it $300-400 for a pair + a couple bombers of porter.....per bike.......so I would be in for $600-800 for outfitting 2 bikes.

    And to answer your question, I give a shit as I find it entertaining and head shaking in general, but I'm not wetting myself over it or anything. And I agree it is better than a trip to the ER.......but in icy conditions I have other winter activities to partake in........so there is always the option to punt and do something else, just weighing options......
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  50. #50
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    If all you guys emailed nokian and asked for studded fat tires they would probably start making them for you. 300 carbide studs in each tire, like a 100 a pop.
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    Quote Originally Posted by car bone View Post
    If all you guys emailed nokian and asked for studded fat tires they would probably start making them for you. 300 carbide studs in each tire, like a 100 a pop.
    I imagine they'd be a bit more...I paid around $100/ea for 26x2.1 Nokians 10-15 years ago.

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    If your waiting for prices on Dillinger stuff to come down, don't hold your breath. Even the used market for Fat bike stuff is very slim and commands premium prices after 3 years of growth. I keep looking for used stuff here and there and those are my findings, and that is in the normally product saturated Midwest bike mecca of the twin cities.

    I just continues to amaze me how money blocked people are when it comes to fat bike stuff. I get having a budget and stuff and I don't consider myself one that blows money on flashy bragging rights parts. Maybe you are poor but really love biking, in that case you could get a 150$ schwinn from Target and it would do you just fine and you could outfit it with what ever you want for way less. The thing about fat biking that I learned my FIRST season is that it is the most expensive way to ride a bike PERIOD. If want to play you gotta pay. Again I know there are other options and that is fine but please stop whining about shit that is too expensive but you want it really bad. It expensive for a reason!!! Ok rant over.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Bain View Post
    If your waiting for prices on Dillinger stuff to come down, don't hold your breath. Even the used market for Fat bike stuff is very slim and commands premium prices after 3 years of growth. I keep looking for used stuff here and there and those are my findings, and that is in the normally product saturated Midwest bike mecca of the twin cities.

    I just continues to amaze me how money blocked people are when it comes to fat bike stuff. I get having a budget and stuff and I don't consider myself one that blows money on flashy bragging rights parts. Maybe you are poor but really love biking, in that case you could get a 150$ schwinn from Target and it would do you just fine and you could outfit it with what ever you want for way less. The thing about fat biking that I learned my FIRST season is that it is the most expensive way to ride a bike PERIOD. If want to play you gotta pay. Again I know there are other options and that is fine but please stop whining about shit that is too expensive but you want it really bad. It expensive for a reason!!! Ok rant over.
    It's priorities. I want to upgrade my car's suspension, but I seem to have a LOT harder time dumping $500 into that compare to a bike part.
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    I don't know that I saw a lot of whining or anyone holding their breath; seems some folks were looking for alternatives and others chimed in with some. While some...ahem...are frustrated by people discussing the topic. Kind of weird really, though it seems to happen often. Of course it's expensive, I don't get why some are so opposed to others saving money if (for whatever reason) that's their thing. Stating potential factual drawbacks or experiences for something is great, and enhances the discussion, but throwing out pointless, subjective (and sometimes nasty) opinions is the opposite. Okay, rant over.

  55. #55
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    I saw these:

    26x4.9'' Studded Tyres for Chaoyang for sondors ebike fat bike tire-in Bicycle Tires from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

    $199 for a pair with tubes shipped, there are other threads on Chaoyang tires floating around and they sound pretty good
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  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Bain View Post
    If your waiting for prices on Dillinger stuff to come down, don't hold your breath. Even the used market for Fat bike stuff is very slim and commands premium prices after 3 years of growth. I keep looking for used stuff here and there and those are my findings, and that is in the normally product saturated Midwest bike mecca of the twin cities.

    I just continues to amaze me how money blocked people are when it comes to fat bike stuff. I get having a budget and stuff and I don't consider myself one that blows money on flashy bragging rights parts. Maybe you are poor but really love biking, in that case you could get a 150$ schwinn from Target and it would do you just fine and you could outfit it with what ever you want for way less. The thing about fat biking that I learned my FIRST season is that it is the most expensive way to ride a bike PERIOD. If want to play you gotta pay. Again I know there are other options and that is fine but please stop whining about shit that is too expensive but you want it really bad. It expensive for a reason!!! Ok rant over.
    Agree to a point but I am absolutely guilty of whining.

    April- $900 on skinny bike
    May- $500 on skinny bike acc. (light, panniers, pump etc)
    October $2400 on fat bike
    November $500 on fat bike acc (pedals, water bottle cages, super cool presta valve caps shaped like skulls, rear rack, bag etc.)
    December $300 on studded tires for the skinny and some winter riding gear
    January $1,100 on fat bike for my kid
    January $200 in kid fat bike accessories
    January Realized fat tires are not immune to slipping on ice
    January $450 on studded D5's

    Honestly, every single purchase I made I smiled after I was done except the D5's. That for some reason just pissed me off.

    I am over it now and the fact that I don't worry I am going to die every time I hit ice makes it worth it.
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  57. #57
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    Second season with the D5's and no regrets, they're a great winter tire especially this year with all the freeze/thaws we've been having. I had a hard time initially too with the price so I started with one for the front and bought the rear a month later, didn't seem as expensive buying one at a time ($600 Canadian!)

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayooper View Post
    I imagine they'd be a bit more...I paid around $100/ea for 26x2.1 Nokians 10-15 years ago.
    I payed about 90-100 for a pair of w240s last year at my lbs, they ordered them for me. Could have been cheaper, cant really remember except it was surprisingly cheap.
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    Specialized sucks ass.

  59. #59
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    I've ridden D5's, D4's, Vee XL's, and a pile of Kold Kutter self-studded tires.

    For grip on ice nothing comes close to the KK's. But they are somewhat maintenance intensive in that the harder you ride and the more diverse the terrain, the faster the studs pull out.

    For mixed terrain riding the D5, D4, and Vee XL are all good. But man are they expensive. And the Vee's are sloooooooooow when it's really cold.

    The best all around compromise that I've found are the Bontrager Gnarwhal's. Not the biggest, not the most studs. But the burly tubeless ready casing, blocky knobs that don't spit out studs, an adequate number of studs, and a price far lower than the others is hard to beat.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayooper View Post
    I don't know that I saw a lot of whining or anyone holding their breath; seems some folks were looking for alternatives and others chimed in with some. While some...ahem...are frustrated by people discussing the topic. Kind of weird really, though it seems to happen often. Of course it's expensive, I don't get why some are so opposed to others saving money if (for whatever reason) that's their thing. Stating potential factual drawbacks or experiences for something is great, and enhances the discussion, but throwing out pointless, subjective (and sometimes nasty) opinions is the opposite. Okay, rant over.

    I'm not going to apologize for telling it like it is. It is a blanket statement based on a consensus in general. Additionally my way of thinking is superior and I just want everyone to think like me for their own good.

  61. #61
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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but my searches have revealed prices of the studded gnarwhals at $224, nearly same price as dillingers and waaay above the xl's. I have a set of the studded xl's this year, unfortunately there hasn't been enough snow and ice to make an accurate evaluation of them. My initial experience on a couple inches of semi packed powder was very good once aired down to 3 or 4 psi. Compared to my old skinny nokian megastudded tires they don't bite as well, as I expected from reading other rider's experiences. They slipped somewhat but they kept me upright when crossing frozen streams. At lower pressures the self steer is difficult to control on snowless singletrack compared to my nates, I am wondering if this may be a trait of 5ish inch tires with thinner sidewalls? These will be for snow and ice only, not general trail riding the rest of the year.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Bain View Post
    I'm not going to apologize for telling it like it is. It is a blanket statement based on a consensus in general. Additionally my way of thinking is superior and I just want everyone to think like me for their own good.
    It's not some great revelation: Everyone knows how it is (expensive), that doesn't mean there aren't suitable alternatives to the highest priced item at every point. Saying "it's expensive, get over it" is useless commentary.

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    I'm just trying to get them past the first stage of grief. :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by dayooper View Post
    It's not some great revelation: Everyone knows how it is (expensive), that doesn't mean there aren't suitable alternatives to the highest priced item at every point. Saying "it's expensive, get over it" is useless commentary.
    Ok...but a new thread every week on the same topic isn't "useless commentary?" Flogging the "why are fat tires so expensive?" question at least 5-10 times a week isn't "useless commentary?" Way to take a strong stand against superfluous discussions.

    It's really beginning to feel like "Groundhog Day" around here...
    "The only way we can truly control the outcome of a ride is not going on it, which is a choice I'm unwilling to make." -K.B.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    For mixed terrain riding the D5, D4, and Vee XL are all good. But man are they expensive. And the Vee's are sloooooooooow when it's really cold.
    Not sure if this is the case with all fat bike tires, but I agree the Vee XL's are seriously slow at low pressures.

    I had back to back rides last weekend in seriously cold weather, new snow.

    I ran about 5-5.5 PSI on Saturday and felt like i was towing an anchor for 45 minutes in granny gear

    Sunday, I increased the tire pressure to 7 front and 8 rear and felt like I was flying for 100 minutes.

    I have come to the conclusion i don't like the tires below 6 PSI...it's just too damn slow.

    I weigh about 215 in my birthday suit BTW
    Last edited by Swerny; 02-19-2016 at 10:13 AM.
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    No reason for anyone to get their underwear all wadded up over people sharing opinions on whether or not there is value in $240 bike tires......everyone just accept that it is what it is or your not worthy of true fatness, right?

    IMHO, for me personally it isn't the money per se it is the value. In the past 45 days I have dropped $8,000 on bikes, I found the value in that $8,000, I just question the value of $500 for pre studded tires, or $800-1000 to outfit our two Fatties.

    I thought the portion of the thread dealing with alternatives has been good......it could drop the cost of entry for a pair down to potentially $300-400 depending on the route taken. It's the cost of remaining upright more often on ice.

    It seems like these discussions lately devolve into the folks that have already dropped coin on studded tires taking the "We took it in the ass on price therefore you should too" approach.

    We get it the current price is what it is.....doesn't mean you are going to convince everyone that they have to like it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterofnone View Post
    At lower pressures the self steer is difficult to control on snowless singletrack compared to my nates, I am wondering if this may be a trait of 5ish inch tires with thinner sidewalls? These will be for snow and ice only, not general trail riding the rest of the year.
    I would bet that's a function of the studs digging into the dirt and the different parts of the tire wanting to go different directions when you attempt to turn (you are asking the tire to turn, yet it has spikes in the ground preventing it from doing so).

    I don't run studded if it's dry/dirt, but I do occasionally run them on pavement, but again I'd expect there's more "slip" there so it wouldn't have that trait.
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  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayooper View Post
    It's not some great revelation: Everyone knows how it is (expensive), that doesn't mean there aren't suitable alternatives to the highest priced item at every point. Saying "it's expensive, get over it" is useless commentary.
    Fat studded tires were a revelation for me the second season I was fatbiking. It was like going from old straight skis to wide shaped all-mtn boards. Yeah, I was skiing, but now I'm skiing and an entire world of new possibilities has opened up. In other words, there were many more times before where the conditions would be a barrier to me getting out and fat-biking.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smithhammer View Post
    Ok...but a new thread every week on the same topic isn't "useless commentary?" Flogging the "why are fat tires so expensive?" question at least 5-10 times a week isn't "useless commentary?" Way to take a strong stand against superfluous discussions.

    It's really beginning to feel like "Groundhog Day" around here...
    LOL...well, I'll agree with your last comment.
    And no, it's not useless to point out uselessness...pointing out uselessness with the hope of limiting future uselessness is the point. Idealistic. So yeah, probably useless, especially around here.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayooper View Post
    And no, it's not useless to point out uselessness...pointing out uselessness with the hope of limiting future uselessness is the point. Idealistic. So yeah, probably useless, especially around here.
    That is an excellent quote.

    And yeah, I agree.

    Besides, next week this will all be forgotten and we'll be talking about it again as though it's a fresh topic. I'm preparing my answers now. Next week, I'm going to mix it up and play the "positive, encouraging role."

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  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swerny View Post
    Not sure if this is the case with all fat bike tires, but I agree the Vee XL's are seriously slow at low pressures.

    I had back to back rides last weekend in seriously cold weather, new snow.

    I ran about 5-5.5 PSI on Saturday and felt like i was towing an anchor for 45 minutes in granny gear

    Sunday, I increased the tire pressure to 7 front and 8 rear and felt like I was flying for 100 minutes.

    I have come to the conclusion i don't like the tires below 6 PSI...it's just too damn slow.

    I weigh about 215 in my birthday suit BTW
    Low pressure does add rolling resistance to the XL's. I think the extreme cold adds way more resistance than dropping pressure. Last Saturday I ran 6F/8R on completely frozen icy hardpack at -3 to 0F. Monday I went out in 25 to 30F with and inch or less of new snow on the icy hardpack at 4.5F/6R to get a little grab on the loose snow. I knocked 8 minutes off my Saturday lap time and my avg heart rate dropped from 168 to 154. I've really noticed on other 0-10F temp rides that my resistance goes through the roof no matter my tire pressure and trail conditions.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smithhammer View Post
    That is an excellent quote.

    And yeah, I agree.

    Besides, next week this will all be forgotten and we'll be talking about it again as though it's a fresh topic. I'm preparing my answers now. Next week, I'm going to mix it up and play the "positive, encouraging role."

    "I got you babe..."
    Glad you appreciated that!

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    Been running a bud/nate combo with 150 grip studs. 90/f, 60/r. Works pretty good but I just scored some studded D4's on a deal. Could be interested in selling the bud nate set. PM me if anyone is interested

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    We just got a bunch or rain so the packed in single-track is glare ice with water on top. RoDE them on d4's at about 50-75% normal pace and did ok. Putting a foot down was very dangerous, and luckily I only had to once. I was riding trails you couldn't walk on.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    I would bet that's a function of the studs digging into the dirt and the different parts of the tire wanting to go different directions when you attempt to turn (you are asking the tire to turn, yet it has spikes in the ground preventing it from doing so).

    I don't run studded if it's dry/dirt, but I do occasionally run them on pavement, but again I'd expect there's more "slip" there so it wouldn't have that trait.
    That makes sense. I'm also transitioning from 27tpi nates with thick surly tubes (super stiff) to tubeless 5ish tires. It is a learning curve I am experimenting with, and having very little snow this year isn't helping me get used to the xl's yet. The first two rides (one on pavement) were to dial in my newly converted 1x10 drivetrain and bed the studs and play with pressures in the new tires. I've found I don't like these so much on dirt and bare rocks, so I was grateful for the brief snow last weekend (which is gone now) to air down the new rubber and see how they did.
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  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swerny View Post
    Not sure if this is the case with all fat bike tires, but I agree the Vee XL's are seriously slow at low pressures.

    I had back to back rides last weekend in seriously cold weather, new snow.

    I ran about 5-5.5 PSI on Saturday and felt like i was towing an anchor for 45 minutes in granny gear

    Sunday, I increased the tire pressure to 7 front and 8 rear and felt like I was flying for 100 minutes.

    I have come to the conclusion i don't like the tires below 6 PSI...it's just too damn slow.

    I weigh about 215 in my birthday suit BTW
    I weigh the same and am on fully studded Dillinger 5's, which were $205 each since I studded them myself. It's cheaper if you buy the tires unstudded and do it yourself (I did mine with the concave studs). But I digress.

    I've run them many times at 3F/6R and not noticed any difference in resistance. On packed trails I'll run them 6.5F/11R and they seem to ride the same, but I don't like the low pressure merely due to the sidewall exposure and denting the rim hopping across a stream and missing.

    I do wish they were wider and had more aggressive lugs since I think the XL's hook up better, IMHO.
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    Can anyone tell me about long term experience with sheet metals screws? I just fitted my veeRubber take offs with 150 screws per tire. (#6 3/8 zinc). Even after a couple rides in a mix of snow and dirt with access from a paved road, the tips are still sharp, grip like hell and no tears in the tire. Cost me $17 and an hour's time. Next time I'll use stainless steel instead of zinc which will cost a little more. I'm just a little dumbfounded how people are paying $500 for pre studded tires! Not trying to preach, just wondering if I'm missing something?studded tires-fatvee.jpg

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    I did this exactly a few months ago with my Snowshoe XL's. No more stress about riding in mixed Winter conditions. I just ride without too much thought about falling.


    Quote Originally Posted by Swerny View Post
    luckily my bike came with Snowshoe XL's. I bought 300 studs off Amazon for $50 and the Schwalbe tool kit with 50 studs for $25....just have to install them now.

  79. #79
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    What you're missing is that on rock, dirt or pavement, the screws will wear rapidly and you'll end up having to replace them. Now, when they're fresh, they're sharp enough to do serious damage to to your clothes, skin, car interior or whatever. Carbide studs are extremely wear resistant and the flat or hollow tips are less dangerous to deal with. Tires that are designed to be studded can be run tubeless, saving ~3 pounds vs. running tubes.

    Whether carbide studs and appropriate tires are worth the cost is your decision. I have studded Nokians on 26" and 29" MTBs and they're amazing. I haven't done anything for the fat bike yet, due to the cost and to the fact that if it's icy, I can just ride one of my MTBs. Eventually I'll set up a second pair of wheels and some studded fat tires, but I 'll wait for prices to come down from the stratosphere before I take the plunge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bnystrom View Post
    What you're missing is that on rock, dirt or pavement, the screws will wear rapidly and you'll end up having to replace them. Now, when they're fresh, they're sharp enough to do serious damage to to your clothes, skin, car interior or whatever. Carbide studs are extremely wear resistant and the flat or hollow tips are less dangerous to deal with. Tires that are designed to be studded can be run tubeless, saving ~3 pounds vs. running tubes.

    Whether carbide studs and appropriate tires are worth the cost is your decision. I have studded Nokians on 26" and 29" MTBs and they're amazing. I haven't done anything for the fat bike yet, due to the cost and to the fact that if it's icy, I can just ride one of my MTBs. Eventually I'll set up a second pair of wheels and some studded fat tires, but I 'll wait for prices to come down from the stratosphere before I take the plunge.
    In addition to these concerns, if you flat with that setup, and/or have the screws push in or tear, you will need a liner to be able to run an emergency tube.

    I used your method back in the day on my dirt bike tires, and ended up with a bunch of elongated holes and broken screws. I'm guessing you won't be putting that much power down though unless you are running an ebike.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayooper View Post
    Don't know if anyone's mentioned yet, but these studs seem pretty on-par with those in my old studded nokians...

    Bicycle Tire Studs Carbide Tip Aluminum Body Qty 100 250 500 | eBay
    I got 350 and avoided the smallest knobs on the sides of my XLs, which seem pretty small for receiving studs even though they have holes. The tires don't stick quite like my old nokians with their dense pattern, but no current fat tire could match that.

    Oh, unstudded XLs were $185...so $250 all in.
    I have two bikes to stud, mine and the wife's so these studs sound like a reasonably priced option. We have V SS XL's also.
    How well do they work?
    How easy was installation?
    How well have they lasted and stayed in?
    Has anybody else had any experience with these?
    Cannot find any reviews.
    Can buy them even cheaper here:
    bikestud.com - studs for bicycle tires
    500/$75

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    Good points, thanks! That said, nothing considerable to change my need and conditions at the moment. No need for studs on an ebike, anyone riding one of those should meet a few icy corners in my opinion haha.

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by TMCD1111 View Post
    I have two bikes to stud, mine and the wife's so these studs sound like a reasonably priced option. We have V SS XL's also.
    How well do they work?
    How easy was installation?
    How well have they lasted and stayed in?
    Has anybody else had any experience with these?
    Cannot find any reviews.
    Can buy them even cheaper here:
    bikestud.com - studs for bicycle tires
    500/$75
    I started studding my SS XL's last weekend, did 80 on the front tire to start, 4 blisters on my right hand as a result despite wearing work gloves.

    I found using lube on the studs made them easier to insert..I used olive oil since i had it handy.

    One ride and I hadn't lost any when i returned.
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  84. #84
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    One option is to recycle old studs from used tires. At least here there's a lot of 2nd hand 26" skinny studded tires available at cheap price. I recycled aluminum bodied sharp end studs and they are great.

    I used cordless drill to install the studs, it's fast and easy, no blisters

    Quick how-to-video:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muEgelNBWLU

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swerny View Post
    I found using lube on the studs made them easier to insert..I used olive oil since i had it handy.
    There are two big problems with using oil for stud installation;

    1- Because is stays on the studs and doesn't dry, it also makes it easier for them to pop out in use. Oil lubrication works both ways.

    2- Oil can damage the rubber of the tread.

    Lubing studs should be done with water, alcohol or alcohol-based hand sanitizer, as it will evaporate and won't compromise the hold of the tread on the studs.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bnystrom View Post
    There are two big problems with using oil for stud installation;

    1- Because is stays on the studs and doesn't dry, it also makes it easier for them to pop out in use. Oil lubrication works both ways.

    2- Oil can damage the rubber of the tread.

    Lubing studs should be done with water, alcohol or alcohol-based hand sanitizer, as it will evaporate and won't compromise the hold of the tread on the studs.
    I get what you are saying. Good recommendation on the alcohol or water..I will use one of those for the rest.

    I don't see a dab of olive oil damaging a rubber bike tire, I literally wet a paper towel with oil then rubbed the base of the stud on it.

    Also no studs lost after ride #1, and it was still hard to get them in with the oil.
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  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bnystrom View Post

    Lubing studs should be done with water, alcohol
    that sounds much better to me at least. Do you think beer will work?
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swerny View Post
    I started studding my SS XL's last weekend, did 80 on the front tire to start, 4 blisters on my right hand as a result despite wearing work gloves.

    I found using lube on the studs made them easier to insert..I used olive oil since i had it handy.

    One ride and I hadn't lost any when i returned.
    The XLs were definitely tough. I used a spray bottle with just water, and that helped quite a bit. Once got down the rotating/twisting angle they started to go in easier.

    To the OP, weight might be another consideration...not sure what those screws weigh, but manufactured studs are 0.25 gm. May or may not matter to someone.

  89. #89
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    I have been installing DYI studs into my buds by drilling them with a stop collar and then installing 45nrth studs. I use 5200 marine grade silicone as the lubricant for install and when it dries it bonds very well to the rudder and the stud its self. Have a couple hundred miles on these in all types of conditions with only losing a couple of studs.
    I have also install new studs that has pull out of my first generation Dillinger 4s using the 5200 silicone. This has work very well lots of hard miles on roots and rocky single track with very few pulling

  90. #90
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    All right i found some good links for you guys. In scandinavia ice racing is common with pretty much all types of bikes and cars.

    Name:  SAM_0732.JPG
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    Nonshine: Finndubb

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BXb3abrb8U

    BestGrip 1700S Finndubb
    studded tires-1700s_medium.1434016134.jpg

    bicycles Dubb till cykeldäck & mountainbike | BestGrip

    http://www.wipertec.fi/mcdubbar.php

    The most brutal ones are found on "speedway" bikes. I'm guessing they are about 20mm or so long (the spike).

    good luck.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by exp18 View Post
    I have been installing DYI studs into my buds by drilling them with a stop collar and then installing 45nrth studs. I use 5200 marine grade silicone as the lubricant for install and when it dries it bonds very well to the rudder and the stud its self. Have a couple hundred miles on these in all types of conditions with only losing a couple of studs.
    I have also install new studs that has pull out of my first generation Dillinger 4s using the 5200 silicone. This has work very well lots of hard miles on roots and rocky single track with very few pulling
    I'm curious about this. I figured the pocket for the stud was more than a straight drilled hole. I expected it would have a wider base to accept the wide base of the stud. If this is not the case, how big a hole do you drill, how deep, and which tires?

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinzinnati View Post
    I'm curious about this. I figured the pocket for the stud was more than a straight drilled hole. I expected it would have a wider base to accept the wide base of the stud. If this is not the case, how big a hole do you drill, how deep, and which tires?
    The stud pockets on dillingers do have a wider pocket at the base, but in most other types of tire (not bike tires)they do not have a pocket they are just drilled. So in this case I have not found an efficient way to make a pocket. I am pretty sure dillingers are molded that way. I just use a 1/8 drill bit with the point ground off so it is squared off and a piece of pipe just big enough to fit over the drill bit for a stop. Using the drill chuck I set the drill bit so it protrudes out the pipe about the same as the tire knob depth or a little less. I drill and install the studs with the tire aired up. Squirt a little 5200 silicone in the hole and install the stud. With the buds you can see a slight bulge at the bottom on the knob but doesn't seem to be a problem.

  93. #93
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    That's an interesting approach, but I want to clarify something. 3M 5200 is not silicone, it's a high-strength, marine grade, polyurethane adhesive/sealant that's common used for bonding/bedding hatches, windows, wooden decks and the like. It's meant to create a permanent bond, though that's not likely to happen with bike tires and studs since the surfaces are probably contaminated enough with release agents and such to prevent that. I have used it to bond hatches to kayak decks and can vouch for its tenacity. One disadvantage of it is that it takes about a week to fully cure, through there is a "fast cure" version available.

    For anyone considering using this stud installation technique, DO NOT USE SILICONE SEALER. Silicone products produce weak bonds and leave a slippery residue that's difficult to remove. In a stud pocket, you'd probably never get it out completely. It will lubricate the surfaces just as sure as oil will and the result is likely to be lost studs.

  94. #94
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    [QUOTE=Bnystrom;12493350]That's an interesting approach, but I want to clarify something. 3M 5200 is not silicone, it's a high

    You are correct it is a polyurethane, but it is often referred to as marine silicone or kryptonite because anything you get it on it will not come off without some extreme measures. The fast cure is what I use, the package says 24hrs to dry but I find it take more like 36hrs. As for the bonding I find that it bond incredible well to the rubber. The few studs I have lost it was separated for the aluminum studs. Didnt say it was perfect method but it works pretty good.

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by TMCD1111 View Post
    I have two bikes to stud, mine and the wife's so these studs sound like a reasonably priced option. We have V SS XL's also.
    How well do they work?
    How easy was installation?
    How well have they lasted and stayed in?
    Has anybody else had any experience with these?
    Cannot find any reviews.
    Can buy them even cheaper here:
    bikestud.com - studs for bicycle tires
    500/$75
    I got 100 studs from bikestud.com for my wifes snowshoe XL a week or so ago. Super fast delivery, great price. I've been a bike studding fool the last few weeks. All 100 went into my wife's snowshoe XL (run as a rear), and installed 300 grip studs into 2 Buds (90 each), 1 Lou (80), and the rest into my son's normal snowshoes. The bikestud studs in the XL grip really well, probably better than the Lou, but hard to tell due to different tread patterns. I didn't order the stud tool since I only had one tire with stud pockets, but rednecked a tool together. Install went really well once I unmounted the XL and draped it perpendicular over a 2x4 screwed onto my workbench and used hand sanitizer as lube - 40 minutes total, maybe (2 beers anyway). It would've gone much easier with the proper tool. Several miles on asphalt and gravel, haven't lost one yet. Do it.
    I would advise not taking my advice.

  96. #96
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    You're not kidding about it being difficult to remove. Unlike silicone sealer, you don't even want to think about spreading 5200 with your fingers!

    It's interesting that the studs are bonding strongly to the tread. I'm not sure that I would want that. On my 2 MTBs with studded Nokians, I've lost perhaps a half-dozen studs total, so retention isn't really a problem. Perhaps it's more of an issue with fat tires at their lower pressures. Does anyone here have any comparative experience?

    I suspect that the reason that some people seem to be underwhelmed with studded fat tire performance is a result of of lower stud density on the tires and the lower contact pressure due to the larger contact patch and lower tire pressure. The studs simply don't bite as well as they do on a narrower tire with more pressure.

  97. #97
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    Kold Kutters into any fatbike tire with the right shaped knobs (fairly wide and not too tall) will make any factory studded tire (fat or skinny) feel outright dangerous in comparison. During icy times, jumping on the commuter bike with factory studded Ice Spiker tires after having spent the weekend on a Kold Kutter equipped fatbike is way, way scary as there is comparatively no traction at all.

    As seen on Youtube:


  98. #98
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    Provided the ice sets back up this weekend, I'll be able to report back on the shimmed studs. It's 53F now here in Maine.

    I bought some 1/16" (0.065") rubber fiber gasket material and a 1/4" punch. I've punched out some discs and added them below the studs to give them more prominence. Time will tell whether the shim is too much for the stud pocket. If it's just taking up the excess space then great, but if it's stressing the pocket and will cause a tear or stud loss, then I'll have to declare the experiment a failure.

    Here you can see the two studs I shimmed in the top middle, with the ones not shimmed around them.

    studded tires-image-x2.jpg


    The process isn't too bad, but the shim/stud combination installation goes easier with some window cleaner.

    studded tires-image-x2.jpg


    And here is the simple punch process, not much to it and very cheap.

    studded tires-image-x2.jpg


    Yes, it takes some time to install them, but it's all in the name of better biking. If this helps people out down the road with few side effects, then it's worth the effort.
    .
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    Nothing to see here, move along folks.

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    Regardless how it ultimately works out it is good to see that DIY is still alive in the fatbike world.
    Latitude 61

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    Has anyone installed and used Kold Kutters on 45 NRTH Dillinger 5's?. I have a non studded version and a bit hesitant to install the KK's into the open Stud pockets. I'm afraid there isn't enough rubber in the knobs to support the Kk's .

    Any experience or advise would be appreciated.

    Thanks

  101. #101
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    I have the studded D5's. Not enough time and interest in my life to stud tires anymore (used to ice race). Paid the price. Have no experience with other tires yet. I can see the limitations in deep snow traction with D5, unless I drop the pressure way down. And even then...
    But the studs are marvellous. I am on blood thinners, so the Doc was worried about me falling in the woods and bleeding to death. I am really counting on the studs to give me a secure ride. So far, great!

    MAGPIE!!! Don't knock the electric assist till you give it a serious try. Cheaper than another car, more environmental than a motorcycle, and a nice way to commute.

  102. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by ticketchecker View Post
    Been running a bud/nate combo with 150 grip studs. 90/f, 60/r. Works pretty good but I just scored some studded D4's on a deal. Could be interested in selling the bud nate set. PM me if anyone is interested
    PM'd you

  103. #103
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    I was able to add studs to my 27.5 Hodag's. So far I have 50 in each to front and rear, about double of what this picture has. I used grip studs, and they worked better with the manual tool than they did with a drill. It also seemed to work better when the tire was wet. It went pretty fast, even with the manual tool, and already makes a night and day difference on smooth, wet ice, although I think I need to double the number of studs again to be closer to ideal. The Hodags have a lot of cyping in them, so I was surprised how well these studs seated, even though the tires don't have very big lugs.


  104. #104
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    I found a downside to diy studded tires today, lots of trees down, climbing over stuff.... Scraped a tire over my knee.... Ouch!

  105. #105
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    Ouch! I love the studded tires for wet/frosty roots. Can't say I've ever done anything like that, but I do have to be careful sometimes with the bike, moving it around in the stand and around the car.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  106. #106
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    Studs required.

    Middle Fork Loop from Bivouac (Anchorage) on 2/25/26

    5" tire? Would've been nice in a few places.

    Studded? Required.







    I recently bought studded D4s (can't fit 5s) and I wouldn't be able to do a ride like this without them. I heartily agree with Jayem, if the conditions warrant, they're worth every penny.

    Ted

  107. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dilligaff View Post
    Provided the ice sets back up this weekend, I'll be able to report back on the shimmed studs. It's 53F now here in Maine.

    I bought some 1/16" (0.065") rubber fiber gasket material and a 1/4" punch. I've punched out some discs and added them below the studs to give them more prominence. Time will tell whether the shim is too much for the stud pocket. If it's just taking up the excess space then great, but if it's stressing the pocket and will cause a tear or stud loss, then I'll have to declare the experiment a failure.

    Here you can see the two studs I shimmed in the top middle, with the ones not shimmed around them.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The process isn't too bad, but the shim/stud combination installation goes easier with some window cleaner.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    And here is the simple punch process, not much to it and very cheap.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Yes, it takes some time to install them, but it's all in the name of better biking. If this helps people out down the road with few side effects, then it's worth the effort.
    .

    Well, I promised a report after a ride so here it is.

    I can say without reservation that doing the above completely transforms the tire. I was completely blown away since I didn't expect it. I did expect some additional traction but nowhere near what I experienced. I'm sure it's not as positive as running Kold Kutters but having no experience with them, this is as good as I've seen to date.

    Here you can see the additional prominence on the outside studs.

    studded tires-image-x3.jpg

    Yesterday's trail had a lot of ice covered spots that gave the tires a workout. I only did the front tire edges to see what it'd be like and since the front end tends to wash out due to not having as much pressure on it. The rear will slide on pronounced off-camber ice so I'll add some to that but the front gave no indications of anything but feeling like dry ground. Even the wet logs I rode over at an angle didn't feel slippery at all.

    studded tires-image-x3.jpg

    It did take some time to add the shims under the studs, probably around 2 hours total, but the results are worth it and the cost was negligible. I wish there was a slightly longer stud available but until I find one I'm happy with the results and I love the concave profile. They are very sharp as I can attest with the cut on my hand when I endo'd after breaking through some ice.

    I went out for a few hours and hit all manner of terrain, to include some unforgiving rock and a lot of frost. After washing the bike last night I did notice 4 studs missing. I'll replace them but suspect perhaps they were not seated in the pockets correctly. I noticed some didn't sit as centered as others and suspect it's due to manufacturing variances in the tire. Since the rear tire has more pressure on it than the front and doesn't turn, I'll add a 0.040" (1mm) shim instead of the 0.063" (1.6mm) shim to reduce leveraging of the studs out of the pockets. I'm glad I didn't use the 0.078" (2mm) material since that definitely would have been too large.

    studded tires-image-x3.jpg
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Nothing to see here, move along folks.

  108. #108
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    I had d4's and moved to d5's on 90mm rims and I must say I like how rounded the tire is vs bud/lou/knard. So far it was a great tire.

  109. #109
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    I'll say this with the caveat that I have not done a thorough inspection to determine cause and effect but.....

    I've got about 600 miles on my D5's and more than half of that was on dry tar roads/paths.

    The center studs are either "seated" or worn much more than the outers. I'm going with seated based on my 43 second inspection. They are definitely not providing the same traction as new.

    I will inspect more when I pull them off in a month. I am definitely going to try the spacer trick. I don't mind losing a few if it means increased traction.
    "At least I'm enjoying the ride"

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  110. #110
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    This weekend we had a chance to see a very well done job of studding Kenda Juggs with metal screws, tape was heatgunned on the tire interior and then tubed.....they went 1/4" in the rear and 3/8" in the dront and they were impressive.

    Evidently two shop guys went out on pure glare ice with the same model rental bikes, one with studded D5s (factory) and one with these screwed Juggs and the D5s were all over the place compared to the home job. While the screws are very aggressive and won't wear well on asphalt roads, that isn't exactly what they are intended for.

    I think this is the route I am going for next year. $10 in screws and 3 hrs to do 2 tires is a good approach.
    2016 Pivot Mach 429er Pro 1X
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  111. #111
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    Good to hear! In my part of the woods studs are mandatory right now and wouldn't be riding if not for DYI. Curious about the tape (I didn't use any) was it just duct tape?

  112. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by River19 View Post
    This weekend we had a chance to see a very well done job of studding Kenda Juggs with metal screws, tape was heatgunned on the tire interior and then tubed.....they went 1/4" in the rear and 3/8" in the dront and they were impressive.

    Evidently two shop guys went out on pure glare ice with the same model rental bikes, one with studded D5s (factory) and one with these screwed Juggs and the D5s were all over the place compared to the home job. While the screws are very aggressive and won't wear well on asphalt roads, that isn't exactly what they are intended for.

    I think this is the route I am going for next year. $10 in screws and 3 hrs to do 2 tires is a good approach.
    I would love to have more details about this as my stock juggernaut sport 4.5 are begging for studs. The grip studs and kold kutters both look too long for the tread depth. I've ridden on tires screwed from the inside out on skinny tired before and I was not a huge fan, but the fat tires may respond differently with the larger contact patch. Do you know which knobs they studded and how many per tire?

  113. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinzinnati View Post
    I would love to have more details about this as my stock juggernaut sport 4.5 are begging for studs. The grip studs and kold kutters both look too long for the tread depth. I've ridden on tires screwed from the inside out on skinny tired before and I was not a huge fan, but the fat tires may respond differently with the larger contact patch. Do you know which knobs they studded and how many per tire?
    It looked like about 80-100 per tire and it looked like they used most of the primary lugs. I wish I took some pics but I was there picking up my new 429 and was drooling over that at the time when I noticed the stud job.

    They did a nice job. I'm not sure what kind of tape they used but he did say he used a heat gun on the tape, which makes some sense to "set" it even more.

    The 1/4" screws looked good the 3/8" looked down right weapon like.......
    2016 Pivot Mach 429er Pro 1X
    2008 Cannondale Rush
    2001 Ibis Ripley Soft Tail
    1997 Ibis Alibi HT
    Motobecane Lurch Fat Bike

  114. #114
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    Went out last night for a 5.4 mile muddy loop with some rock mixed in and only lost one stud. I'm thinking the others are seated the point it's not an issue anymore. I'm headed to PEI this weekend and will do some fatbiking up there on the rocky beaches and we'll see how many I lose. Overall I'm very pleased with the spacer addition experiment.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Nothing to see here, move along folks.

  115. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAGPIE!!! View Post
    Can anyone tell me about long term experience with sheet metals screws? I just fitted my veeRubber take offs with 150 screws per tire. (#6 3/8 zinc). Even after a couple rides in a mix of snow and dirt with access from a paved road, the tips are still sharp, grip like hell and no tears in the tire. Cost me $17 and an hour's time. Next time I'll use stainless steel instead of zinc which will cost a little more. I'm just a little dumbfounded how people are paying $500 for pre studded tires! Not trying to preach, just wondering if I'm missing something?Click image for larger version. 

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    but the stainless are twice the cost of the zinc😬I just picked up 300 zinc. They'll be awesome.

  116. #116
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    Dillinger D5 Stud Shims - add on to Dilligaf's posts

    Dilligaf - thank's for the D5 stud shim information. I am preparing to add shims to my D5's when they arrive. I've had too many instantaneous falls on ice even when I've been extremely careful.

    To make the shims I used a 1/4" "Cushioned Grip Hand Punch", Fiskars brand. It looks like a hand held paper hole punch. It's easy to use and it makes perfect 1/4" shims very quickly. I found this at Jo-Ann Fabrics and I suspect most craft stores have this punch. Cost was $6.

    The shim material was sourced from O'Reilly Auto parts - other parts stores also had this. Just ask for gasket material. It's typically made from a rubber blend. You can buy the different thicknesses separately or a multi-pack that has the two thicknesses that you need. Don't use the cork gasket material. Cost for the multi-pack was $6 and it has enough material to make thousands of shims.

    I will add a report when I have some data to share.

    Dilligaf - thank's again!

  117. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADKMTNBIKER View Post
    but the stainless are twice the cost of the zincI just picked up 300 zinc. They'll be awesome.
    Awesome, good luck! I pinch flatted my back tire last night, not sure if the DYI studs played a role or not.

    The trails around here are a mix of dirt and death ice right now, so i'm going to experiment with my skinny tires (worn out highrollers set up tubeless).

    I bought these from amazon and going to stud each know from the outside-in (1/4 length and tubeless should deal with any punctures) the slotted hex head will be the stud:

    studded tires-slot.jpg

    Steel Sheet Metal Screw, Black Oxide Finish, Hex Washer Head, Slotted Drive, Type AB, #4-24 Thread Size, 1/4" Length (Pack of 100): Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

  118. #118
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    Those 1/4 sheet metal screws work really well on icy trails. Glare ice not so much. Worth the small investment.
    "At least I'm enjoying the ride"

    16' Trek 8.4 DS
    16' Farley 7
    and I'm OK admitting..
    16' Sturgis

    Minneapolis MN

  119. #119
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    A couple of strokes with a file across the top of the head will sharpen the edges, which should improve the grip on ice. However, since they're steel and not carbide, they will wear and will need to be resharpened or replaced periodically. Riding on pavement will dull them quickly. One thing that may help is to use hardened screws, if you can find them.

  120. #120
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    I have never seen hardend screws in a store. The only thing I have seen is that the 12.9 screws are hardened and any good alloy. Between 38 and 44 hrc hardness. sez rite here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASTM_F568M
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

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  121. #121
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    I know that some of you are opposed to expensive options, but I am really impressed with Grip Studs. I put them in 27.5 x 3.8 Hodags, which don't have really big lugs and they work great. Even though they are expensive, they are easy to remove without any real damage to the tire, and I think the same set can be moved from tire to tire as things change. I am around 50 per tire now, and they are a night and day difference between them and no studs, but I am going to move up to around 100 per tire to make it stick better.

  122. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrogersAK View Post
    I know that some of you are opposed to expensive options, but I am really impressed with Grip Studs. I put them in 27.5 x 3.8 Hodags, which don't have really big lugs and they work great. Even though they are expensive, they are easy to remove without any real damage to the tire, and I think the same set can be moved from tire to tire as things change. I am around 50 per tire now, and they are a night and day difference between them and no studs, but I am going to move up to around 100 per tire to make it stick better.
    Could you tell me how big the knobs are in the Ho Dags and provide a picture?

  123. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bnystrom View Post
    A couple of strokes with a file across the top of the head will sharpen the edges, which should improve the grip on ice. However, since they're steel and not carbide, they will wear and will need to be resharpened or replaced periodically. Riding on pavement will dull them quickly. One thing that may help is to use hardened screws, if you can find them.
    kold kutters are hardened

  124. #124
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    studded tires

    I also roll on Grip Studs. I've got 300 installed on a pair of Nates. I'm pretty sure they will outlast the rubber. While expensive, and labor intensive, and perhaps heavier that some other options, they offer an excellent stud profile and show virtually no signs of wear after two winters of use. I also haven't lost a single one yet. This winter we've seen nothing but ice, and the grip studs have allowed me to ascend and descend trails that were treacherous, to say the least. It is a true performance setup, not just insurance studs.
    While it was expensive on the front end, I'm sure I've ridden more often this winter because I have them, and they appear to have plenty of seasons left in them.



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  125. #125
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    Hodag with studs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zinzinnati View Post
    Could you tell me how big the knobs are in the Ho Dags and provide a picture?
    Lucky neighbor of Maryland's Patapsco Valley State Park, 39.23,-76.76 Flickr

  126. #126
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    studded tires

    Quote Originally Posted by shoo View Post
    Hodag with studs.
    Thank's for that. I realized when you posted the link that I already saw your photo and almost asked you to measure the height of your knobs. I heard from the grip studs folks that the knots needed to be 5mm or higher. My tires knobs are 4.5 mm. I am thinking of trying them anyway because they are the sport casing which is thicker than the pro casing and maybe it will work.

  127. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinzinnati View Post
    Could you tell me how big the knobs are in the Ho Dags and provide a picture?
    Here is another shot:



    I measured the lugs, and they all appear to be the same height of 5mm.

  128. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinzinnati View Post
    Thank's for that. I realized when you posted the link that I already saw your photo and almost asked you to measure the height of your knobs. I heard from the grip studs folks that the knots needed to be 5mm or higher. My tires knobs are 4.5 mm. I am thinking of trying them anyway because they are the sport casing which is thicker than the pro casing and maybe it will work.
    I bet they will work. If I run mine in a bit too far I can feel it hitting the chords, but it has never been a problem and they have caused no leaks.

  129. #129
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  130. #130
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    Pulled the 1/4" screws out of my kid's Vee Snowshoes tonight. Also converted to tubeless.

    The 1/4" screws had maybe 50 miles of asphalt and 100 miles of snow/ice single track. The middle screws were close to gone. Definitely not for riding on pavement.

    There were no leaks all winter but when we pulled the screws and tubes there were about 8 holes per tire. Stan's seemed to seal them up.
    "At least I'm enjoying the ride"

    16' Trek 8.4 DS
    16' Farley 7
    and I'm OK admitting..
    16' Sturgis

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  131. #131
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    If you want durable studs it needs to be hardened steel (like 60 hrc) or tungsten carbide.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

  132. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by BurkeVT View Post
    I also roll on Grip Studs. I've got 300 installed on a pair of Nates. I'm pretty sure they will outlast the rubber. While expensive, and labor intensive, and perhaps heavier that some other options, they offer an excellent stud profile and show virtually no signs of wear after two winters of use. I also haven't lost a single one yet. This winter we've seen nothing but ice, and the grip studs have allowed me to ascend and descend trails that were treacherous, to say the least. It is a true performance setup, not just insurance studs.
    While it was expensive on the front end, I'm sure I've ridden more often this winter because I have them, and they appear to have plenty of seasons left in them.



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    What model of Gripstuds did you use?

  133. #133
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    In case it's about to get icy in your neck of the woods.

    Sending this to the top.
    "At least I'm enjoying the ride"

    16' Trek 8.4 DS
    16' Farley 7
    and I'm OK admitting..
    16' Sturgis

    Minneapolis MN

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