To stud or not to stud..- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    To stud or not to stud..

    I am a newbie fat biker - I searched the forums and didn't really see an answer to this out there - if I missed it please let me know.

    I was riding yesterday after some snow and noticed in places under the snow was this hard layer of ice, so when I had any old ruts or anything not flat/slanted terrain I was sliding sideways & /or wiping out. And found getting going again with any incline pretty challenging (spinning out on ice). I realize some of this is due to the fact I don't know what the hell I am doing , but conditions didn't help I don't think.

    I have studs I can put on but am hesitant because I only have the one set of tires. I know I can take the studs out, but if I put them in, I would think you would want to keep them in for a while since there are like 100 of them per tire or something like that..

    I just am not sure what makes the most sense and what folks do in general.

    Any thoughts/advice?

    Oh. I have a 14" Pugsley with Nates for tires. The stock set-up...

    Thanks,

    Mandy
    Caratunk, ME

  2. #2
    The Dog.
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    What kind of studs do you have for the Nates? Are they stock 27tpi wire bead Nates?

  3. #3
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    Yep, studs will help, but you'll only need then until the snow sets up. You get more snow than we do down here on the coast but this winter has been a weird one for weather. The next few weeks won't be an improvement so they'll be a benefit for a little while at least. It won't hurt to leave them in for the winter anyway.

    Maybe stud them up and look for another set? Bikeman has them cheap in the 27tpi version. Or an even cheaper tire, like the $35 Devist8er?

    Its not not your riding, ice sucks and ice under snow is the worst.
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  4. #4
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    Studs are not just for ice, massively more traction cornering and climbing on packed snow, even more traction in powder IMO, due to the increased surface area. You can lay your bike over for turning much easier with studs on all winter surfaces. Even on frozen bare ground in between the ice where frost forms, way better and safer. If your riding during this season is primarily on winter surfaces (ice, snow), it's a no-brainer. Makes riding much safer and fun.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Studs are not just for ice, massively more traction cornering and climbing on packed snow, even more traction in powder IMO, due to the increased surface area. You can lay your bike over for turning much easier with studs on all winter surfaces. Even on frozen bare ground in between the ice where frost forms, way better and safer. If your riding during this season is primarily on winter surfaces (ice, snow), it's a no-brainer. Makes riding much safer and fun.
    I just added studs to my tires, and I endorse this message.

  6. #6
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    Yep, stud the tires, and keep them as winter only. Buy a new set for summer riding.

  7. #7
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    Agreed with the deeper show/rough, slick.ice underneath. What part of Maine r u in . Snow in Presque Isle or Caribou is different than snow in Kittery, Rockland Camden etc. Bangor/Brewer can have dry snow or wet snow. . The Nate'sate's work great in snow but over 3" with Ice under it is slick as snot. I highly recommend the 3/8" steel framing screws for studs. There are threads on here about studding your own tires. The Cold Kutter studs aren't nearly as good on snow covered Ice !! I studded. One of my Nates and put it on the rear of my wife's Boris. . Neither of us can get it to spin or slip sideways. Whereas the factory studded Dillinger 5 and Snowshoe XL will slide sideways on 4" of fresh powder snow or fresh snow with ice ruts underneath. .
    I say have at least the front tire studded up big time on the outside 3 rows of knobs . You can do the rear the same and you will have awesome hook up. Then come full spring put another set of Nates on and save the studded set for winter. My wife has put over 100 miles on the one I studded and I can't find any amount of wear and Half or more of that was on bare pavement.
    I need to swap the tires around on her bike as I have the D5 in the front and the Nate in the back . Almost all of our slides/wrecks are front tire induced.

  8. #8
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    She's in Caratunk, as it says in her name and signature. They get a LOT of snow. Most of the time ice isn't her problem, it's deep snow that lasts a long time.

    The problem is that once you self-stud the Nate, that's all it's good for and the tire shines in more seasons than just winter. I'd self-stud a lesser tire without a problem but something good in the other 6 months of non-snow I'd think twice about. It all comes down to available funds.
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  9. #9
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    Thanks guys!!

    Yes I am in Caratunk (not far from Sugarloaf/western Mountains, we usually get quite a lot of snow). I ride here and over near Carrabassett Valley.

    I have Grip-Studs. Sounds like studs will help no matter what.

    It sounds like I just need to decide about studding the Nate vs purchasing a different tire to stud. I think I might get a different tire to stud - part of my hesitation was studding the Nate knowing it is a pretty good all-around tire. I will look at Bikeman for some tires. And then sit down and screw the little dudes in.

    Thanks so much!

  10. #10
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    Sometimes they have take-offs at the shop they don't advertise on their site. Unfortunately you have to go there to find out what they have for deals.

    I'd have no issues grip-studding the Nates though, it's not like it penetrates the tire. I drilled mine part way through and tried set-screws but they didn't have a wide thread pitch to bite properly and stay in the tire. I pulled them all out and use them like normal. I bought Dillinger 5's for this winter. I was going to use the gripstuds and pick up some Bud/Lou's but decided to go this route instead. The gripstuds are crazy expensive.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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  11. #11
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    Studs do help a lot, but reading the terrain is good as well and knowing the surface you are riding on. I rode thirty miles on a river yesterday with no studs and no issues.

  12. #12
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    came here thinking op was asking about me.. nevermind.. nothing to see here.. these are not the droids you are looking for..

  13. #13
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    I have never heard of that town in Maine. Which is saying something as growing up there I used to pour over maps. There are some good you th e vids showing how to stud tires.
    I covered every screw head with silicon caulking. Let it dry for about 1 day then mounted the tire. I used the OEM tube. Used my finger tip to smooth the caulking around . That was almost 3 months ago and no leaks or loose studs.
    I used a carpenter's awl to poke a hole from outside to inside And my screwgun to install the screw . . It took me a few to get it down pat . But the end result is great. It took me about 3 hours . .

  14. #14
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    I'd stud the Nates and buy new tires for summer. I live and ride in northern MN. Fairly similar conditions to ME I'd say for what I have seen from being in Maine a few times. I rode Nates F & R for a summer. Great trail tire for traction, but I ended up going to a less aggressive tread pattern for summer ( I went with Knard F / HuDu R) and I don't feel like I lost much in traction and I feel like I do notice the easier rolling. It's not my main summer bike however.

    I really like Nates in the winter and studded would be even better. Though I like Van Helgas even better, but i digress. I'm sure I'll like a 5" tire even better for winter when I get to the point of upgrading, another digression.

    All this said, you can spend a lot of money upgrading and adding tires and such. And I have yet to stud my own tires. I know it would help -- I have ridden on bikes with studs, and just like when I have ridden 5" tires, I immediately noticed the difference on snow/ice. Last year we had a very low snow year and had early ice that coated the trails most of the early winter. I slipped around a lot, but never crashed (close a few times!) and still had a blast. And this year we have a coat of ice again, but now some snow over ice. Enough that you don't encounter the ice most of the time, but occasionally. And I still haven't planned on studding my tires or buying a set. Ah well. Take that what it's worth.

    Be interesting to know what you end up doing and what you think after you've ridden on your decision....

  15. #15
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    Yup, grip studs are pricey...got them from Santa though

    I am thinking I will stud my Nates and try a different tire for the summer...my wrist hurts just thinking about it...Time to go search the forums for some advice on that, although I found a great YouTube vid.

    Gorgeous river picture!

    To locate Caratunk on a map...North on Rt201 to about 45 miles from Canadian Border...on the Kennebec River. The Appalachian Trial crosses the river here. Population 30, I am the only biker I know around here but Carrabassett Valley is pretty close and has a good club I am going to join. I digress.

    Thanks again for the info and help

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by caratunkgirl View Post
    Yup, grip studs are pricey...got them from Santa though

    I am thinking I will stud my Nates and try a different tire for the summer...my wrist hurts just thinking about it...Time to go search the forums for some advice on that, although I found a great YouTube vid...
    That would be my advice also. Studs will save you some painful falls.

    Carrabassett is awesome, we go there regularly.

  17. #17
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    http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/fra...923543-16.html

    page 16, I believe. It's a great write-up with pics.

  18. #18
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    Awesome! Thank you for linking me up!

  19. #19
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    You will need 200 or more per tire.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by radair View Post
    That would be my advice also. Studs will save you some painful falls.

    Carrabassett is awesome, we go there regularly.
    I live in Maine, the Dirty Lew, and hear all my riding buds talking about how great the riding is in Carrabassett Valley! Gotta get up there.
    Last edited by Dfinnegan71; 12-29-2015 at 07:33 PM. Reason: Spelling

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotHead View Post
    http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/fra...923543-16.html

    page 16, I believe. It's a great write-up with pics.

    Thanks for posting this also. AliG did a great write up and pics. I forgot.the talc powder but the tire is holding air very well. . If I can get photo bucket to come operate I'll load some pics .

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by caratunkgirl View Post
    ...my wrist hurts just thinking about it.

    Nates have enough meat to use a variable speed drill, which is what I would recommend. My .02: Stud your 27tpi Nates, and pick up a pair of 120tpi tires for the non-icy months. Higher tpi is waaaay better for trail riding. Doesn't matter as much on snow. You will thank me later. Santa was good to you, so maybe someone likes you enough to get 'em for your birthday. Have fun with your Pug.

    Edit: You don't NEED 200 per tire. 150 to 180 will work fine. If you run short, put more on the front. You could get by with 120 on the back unless you ride very agressively on ice.
    Veni vidi velo!

  23. #23
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    Stud the Nates, as Veloborealis says and pick up a good set of summer tires. My brother put ~150 studs in each Nate and it works well. I ride Dillenger D4's and do about the same as he. Husker Du's are a good balanced summer tire, no self steer, good float at lower pressures and low rolling resistance when pumped up to ~18 psi. After all the dust and feathers settle 'tis far better to be riding and having fun than shelling out bucks to the ER staff! Even my wife agreed with that one!

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by caratunkgirl View Post
    I was riding yesterday after some snow and noticed in places under the snow was this hard layer of ice, so when I had any old ruts or anything not flat/slanted terrain I was sliding sideways & /or wiping out....
    This type of scenario, along with daily commuting where I might encounter just about any and every mix of snow/ice, is why I run studded. The added traction and confidence is a night and day difference, and crashing on ice can be seriously painful, not to mention expensive.

    If your typical riding involves the possibility of ice, I'd highly recommend studding your tires. You've got plenty of time to figure out what to do about summer tire options when the ice is gone next spring.
    "The only way we can truly control the outcome of a ride is not going on it, which is a choice I'm unwilling to make." -K.B.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Studs are not just for ice, massively more traction cornering and climbing on packed snow, even more traction in powder IMO, due to the increased surface area. You can lay your bike over for turning much easier with studs on all winter surfaces. Even on frozen bare ground in between the ice where frost forms, way better and safer. If your riding during this season is primarily on winter surfaces (ice, snow), it's a no-brainer. Makes riding much safer and fun.
    Quote Originally Posted by brentos View Post
    I just added studs to my tires, and I endorse this message.
    In endorse Brentos endorsement of Jayem's message.

    If there is any frozen water around (ice, snow, etc...) around, you need studs. Helps a ton.

    J.

  26. #26
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    I studded the Nates, currently I have 100/tire, because that is how many studs I had. I need some more (I would guess another 50/tire would be good), but this has made a huge difference - there is still ice under the snow, which I realized when I stepped off... I took the bike out with the local pack

    Thanks so much!!!

    ATTACH=CONFIG]1039931[/ATTACH]
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails To stud or not to stud..-12366229_10207459711504969_6403491897542092604_n.jpg  


  27. #27
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    That's Great . You've got the fat bike grin going real good too! Nice bunch.of pouches also !

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by caratunkgirl View Post
    I studded the Nates, currently I have 100/tire, because that is how many studs I had. I need some more (I would guess another 50/tire would be good), but this has made a huge difference - there is still ice under the snow, which I realized when I stepped off... I took the bike out with the local pack

    Thanks so much!!!

    ATTACH=CONFIG]1039931[/ATTACH]
    That's an awesome picture.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by caratunkgirl View Post
    I studded the Nates, currently I have 100/tire, because that is how many studs I had. I need some more (I would guess another 50/tire would be good), but this has made a huge difference - there is still ice under the snow, which I realized when I stepped off... I took the bike out with the local pack

    Thanks so much!!!

    ATTACH=CONFIG]1039931[/ATTACH]
    Nice photo! Four happy smiles!
    Veni vidi velo!

  30. #30
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    Glad to hear it was a good move!

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by caratunkgirl View Post
    I studded the Nates, currently I have 100/tire, because that is how many studs I had. I need some more (I would guess another 50/tire would be good), but this has made a huge difference - there is still ice under the snow, which I realized when I stepped off... I took the bike out with the local pack

    Thanks so much!!!

    ATTACH=CONFIG]1039931[/ATTACH]
    I wouldn't be too aggressive at adding new studs. Adds a lot of weight and if you have the traction that you were looking for on ice, you'd be good. I have about 75 per tire in mine and it's working well even on solid ice.

    J.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shark View Post
    Yep, stud the tires, and keep them as winter only. Buy a new set for summer riding.
    I now have many pairs of each.

  33. #33
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    I mounted the studded Dillinger 5's and my confidence riding in a myriad of conditions has jumped 100%.

    Love it. Makes the stupid amount of money I spent on them a little more tolerable.
    "At least I'm enjoying the ride"

    16' Trek 8.4 DS
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  34. #34
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    That there is living right.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by av8or View Post
    came here thinking op was asking about me.. nevermind.. nothing to see here.. these are not the droids you are looking for..
    Brother, you are a true Aviator indeed. Now, where's my beer, it's got to be 5pm somewhere in the world.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
    I wouldn't be too aggressive at adding new studs. Adds a lot of weight and if you have the traction that you were looking for on ice, you'd be good. I have about 75 per tire in mine and it's working well even on solid ice.

    J.
    Awesome, thanks for the info...I didn't really want to buy more anyway

    Mandy

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by caratunkgirl View Post
    Awesome, thanks for the info...I didn't really want to buy more anyway

    Mandy
    My wife's Pug came with 27 TPI Nates. She didn't like them so I swapped them out for Hodags. I'm clearing out my garage so if you'd like to have the Nates let me know, I'll throw them in my truck and you can pick them up at the Milo sled dog race on the 16th. Check out The Maine Highlands Sled Dog Club Facebook page for directions.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by robert.jones View Post
    My wife's Pug came with 27 TPI Nates. She didn't like them so I swapped them out for Hodags. I'm clearing out my garage so if you'd like to have the Nates let me know, I'll throw them in my truck and you can pick them up at the Milo sled dog race on the 16th. Check out The Maine Highlands Sled Dog Club Facebook page for directions.
    Oh wow!! Seriously? I will PM you.

    I need to check out that race!

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