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  1. #1
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    Split Tube Rimstrip Question

    I'm going to attempt a split tube tubeless conversion on my Diamondback El Oso with 95mm rims. I've ordered some 24x 2.4-2.75 tubes and I picked up some sill gasket from Lowes.

    I realize the intent of the foam is to take up space for beading the tires, but can it do more than that?

    Can I remove the stock rim strip and just use the foam as the rim strip?

    ac

  2. #2
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    you should keep the stock rim in addition
    But did you realize that you ordered a 27" tube whereas you should have ordered a smaller one : for 26" rims, i use 20" tubes. For 27.5" rims, you should have used 20" or 24" tubes.

  3. #3
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    You could try, but I'm guessing that over time, the foam will tear, allowing the tube to poke through, and then tear too....
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by zozzo69 View Post
    you should keep the stock rim in addition
    But did you realize that you ordered a 27" tube whereas you should have ordered a smaller one : for 26" rims, i use 20" tubes. For 27.5" rims, you should have used 20" or 24" tubes.
    Good catch on my typo. I ordered 24 (twenty-four) tubes!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by avc8130 View Post
    I'm going to attempt a split tube tubeless conversion on my Diamondback El Oso with 95mm rims. I've ordered some 27x 2.4-2.75 tubes and I picked up some sill gasket from Lowes.

    I realize the intent of the foam is to take up space for beading the tires, but can it do more than that?

    Can I remove the stock rim strip and just use the foam as the rim strip?

    ac
    The rim strip is still needed. I would leave the stock one in place and go over top of it with the foam and split tube.

    The foam is not strong enough to act as a rim strip. It could easily be puncture by a stick etc. along with your split tube. your tube will also be pushing it through your cutouts and packing down the foam.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by thenry View Post
    The rim strip is still needed. I would leave the stock one in place and go over top of it with the foam and split tube.

    The foam is not strong enough to act as a rim strip. It could easily be puncture by a stick etc. along with your split tube. your tube will also be pushing it through your cutouts and packing down the foam.
    Ok, stock rim strip gets to live on!

    ac

  7. #7
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    Is there an alternative to the pink sill foam? I know it doesn't weight a whole lot, so I don't mind it being in there, but it seems that the stuff shrinks down in time. If you get a bad burp on the trail, does a flattened sill strip still help create the bead?

    Once the split tube method seals up well, do you think the sill foam could be removed, especially if it's under the rim strip (pull it out through the rim holes)?
    "a hundred travel books isn't worth one real trip"

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by watts888 View Post
    Is there an alternative to the pink sill foam? I know it doesn't weight a whole lot, so I don't mind it being in there, but it seems that the stuff shrinks down in time. If you get a bad burp on the trail, does a flattened sill strip still help create the bead?

    Once the split tube method seals up well, do you think the sill foam could be removed, especially if it's under the rim strip (pull it out through the rim holes)?
    That's the issue with most foam set ups. They usually allow initial installation, but if you ever need to reseat the bead, you need new foam.

    I think I've read of people finding foam that doesn't compress, but they'll have to comment here.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by watts888 View Post
    Is there an alternative to the pink sill foam? I know it doesn't weight a whole lot, so I don't mind it being in there, but it seems that the stuff shrinks down in time. If you get a bad burp on the trail, does a flattened sill strip still help create the bead?

    Once the split tube method seals up well, do you think the sill foam could be removed, especially if it's under the rim strip (pull it out through the rim holes)?
    Blue foam? LOL

    I'm sure they are the same product, but the Home Depot stuff is pink and the Lowes stuff is blue.

    ac

  10. #10
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    The foam is just to get it aired up initially, it doesn't do much afterwards.

    I wouldn't try to pull it out afterwards, the whole idea of a split tube is only because the other tubeless methods won't work...
    Todd :thumbsup:

  11. #11
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    How the Hell would you ever get it out after the tire seals up???
    I like turtles

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by tfinator View Post
    That's the issue with most foam set ups. They usually allow initial installation, but if you ever need to reseat the bead, you need new foam.

    I think I've read of people finding foam that doesn't compress, but they'll have to comment here.
    I found some PVDF foam from my work. It is for aerospace stuff, but I think it is also used in running shoes. It is not a gel. It recovers really well from compression and is super light.
    We are talking about "compression set" here. The ability of the foam to rebound after it has been compressed indicates a small amount of compression set. If it compresses and stays that way, then compression set is greater.

    I wanted to be able to re-use my split-tube set-up because I change tires seasonally, AND I wanted it to be trail serviceable. I was able to inflate and seat the bead with a mini pump on HL80s and no sealant. Tire mounting was a wrestling match, but I managed to win in the first round with a little Windex. I have tested breaking the bead and reinflating at home and it was super easy. Out on the trail, I'm sure I will have Stan's all over everything to help it go back together with a tube in it.
    I left maybe 5/8" of tube hanging out all the way around. I think that is enough to re-use it without having to re-do anything. The ride is much better than tubed and now I just look for stuff to run over. Did a 17 mile urban fat ride this weekend and no flats.
    No burps, either, on roots, jumps, berms, steps, stumps, and some high-traction corners at 7.5psi. I'm 190#.

    -F
    It's never easier - you just go faster.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by tfinator View Post
    That's the issue with most foam set ups. They usually allow initial installation, but if you ever need to reseat the bead, you need new foam.

    I think I've read of people finding foam that doesn't compress, but they'll have to comment here.
    I had this same thing happen on Wienmann Hl-102's. Used sill seel foam and was able to go tubeless and run low pressure for two weeks. Fortunately I was bombing around in some new snow around the house when the front tire blew completely off the rim. Upon autopsy the pink foam had flattened into the equivalent of thick tape and was no longer helping to hold the bead in place or allow the tire to air up. I then pulled the rear tire off and found the same thing happening. I was just happy that I was only 5 minutes walk from the house.

    I have a new system installed with material that will not pack out and is lightweight. I rode it on hard pack trails and fresh snow this weekend and it worked well. Having said that I would like to give it more time before I post it up. I thought I had the tubeless thing sorted once before and it flopped. Needless to say I dont want to start posting up a possible solution, only to find out that it doesn't work either.

    I would also note that the Wienmann rims have no bead seat to speak of and are known to be difficult to set up tubeless. You may not have this issue with your wheels and split tubes using the foam.

    Best of Luck
    Last edited by thenry; 01-04-2016 at 01:22 PM. Reason: A

  14. #14
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    If you put the foam between the rim and the black rim strip, you could, in theory, get the tire to seat against the split tube. Don't cut the tube around the rim though. After a couple weeks, the seal between the tire and the split tube should be good. Lower the pressure and pull the foam out of the holes that are drilled in the rim. If you pre-slice the foam, it should pull out easily. Don't know how easy it would be to get the 24" rim over the cut foam, but I'm sure a little trial and error would get it. I was also thinking about using black silicone caulk to firmly seal the tire against the split tube. Once it seals up, you could probably pull the entire tire/tube off the rim and put it back on if needed.
    "a hundred travel books isn't worth one real trip"

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleas View Post
    I found some PVDF foam from my work. It is for aerospace stuff, but I think it is also used in running shoes. It is not a gel. It recovers really well from compression and is super light.
    We are talking about "compression set" here. The ability of the foam to rebound after it has been compressed indicates a small amount of compression set. If it compresses and stays that way, then compression set is greater.

    I wanted to be able to re-use my split-tube set-up because I change tires seasonally, AND I wanted it to be trail serviceable. I was able to inflate and seat the bead with a mini pump on HL80s and no sealant. Tire mounting was a wrestling match, but I managed to win in the first round with a little Windex. I have tested breaking the bead and reinflating at home and it was super easy. Out on the trail, I'm sure I will have Stan's all over everything to help it go back together with a tube in it.
    I left maybe 5/8" of tube hanging out all the way around. I think that is enough to re-use it without having to re-do anything. The ride is much better than tubed and now I just look for stuff to run over. Did a 17 mile urban fat ride this weekend and no flats.
    No burps, either, on roots, jumps, berms, steps, stumps, and some high-traction corners at 7.5psi. I'm 190#.

    -F
    Aren't you the only person in North America able to get it or something?

  16. #16
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    I'm tubeless on 3 bikes, fatbike included. Ghetto and non-ghetto for at least 6 years now, split tubes, tape ,tire changes, etc, yada, and so on... and I've never used any kind of foam anything... It's just not that hard to get the bead to seat. That's the whole purpose of foam, right? Am I just awesome, or am I totally missing out by not participating in this weight-adding, seemingly pointless step?
    You have no excuse for driving to work
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommuterBoy View Post
    I'm tubeless on 3 bikes, fatbike included. Ghetto and non-ghetto for at least 6 years now, split tubes, tape ,tire changes, etc, yada, and so on... and I've never used any kind of foam anything... It's just not that hard to get the bead to seat. That's the whole purpose of foam, right? Am I just awesome, or am I totally missing out by not participating in this weight-adding, seemingly pointless step?
    I used to feel the same way you do. Then I purchased a bike with rims that don't want to be tubeless. I have set up tubeless at least 10 x or more. When I pulled the tire of my fat bike I quickly understood why people were struggling. If you have rims that are easy to set up tubeless be very happy. I think I have finally cracked the code on my fat bike but it has tested my patience.

    Here is a pic of the inner workings of my rim
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Split Tube Rimstrip Question-image.jpg  

    Last edited by thenry; 01-04-2016 at 09:51 PM. Reason: Add pic

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by thenry View Post
    I used to feel the same way you do. Then I purchased a bike with rims that don't want to be tubeless. I have set up tubeless at least 10 x or more. When I pulled the tire of my fat bike I quickly understood why people were struggling. If you have rims that are easy to set up tubeless be very happy. I think I have finally cracked the code on my fat bike but it has tested my patience.
    Exactly. My Juggernauts fit so loose on the DB rims I'm pretty sure I could crawl inside!

    ac

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by tfinator View Post
    Aren't you the only person in North America able to get it or something?

    That "Zotek F" is, in fact, proprietary, but PVDF by any other name is still PVDF. Maybe I should start selling it out the back of the shop like they do in China.

    -F
    It's never easier - you just go faster.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by avc8130 View Post
    Exactly. My Juggernauts fit so loose on the DB rims I'm pretty sure I could crawl inside!

    ac
    I can shake my tires off the rim. Actually;, just lean the wheel and the tire will fall off.
    "a hundred travel books isn't worth one real trip"

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleas View Post

    That "Zotek F" is, in fact, proprietary, but PVDF by any other name is still PVDF. Maybe I should start selling it out the back of the shop like they do in China.

    -F
    Okay got it. And that's not a bad idea!

  22. #22
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    You could also try Fattystrippers (FattyStripper Tubeless Fat Bike Solutions). They have some foam rods that go under their latex band. I bought some, but I didn't end up needing them for my Ground Controls on the fatboy rims. Aired up with a floor pump.

  23. #23
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    Ok that makes some sense then. Haven't experienced that kind of looseness...I've sealed up two different brands of tires on my fatty in about 7 seconds after seating the beads with a tube and then only popping 1 bead to remove the tube. Then hold horizontal with the loose bead down and pssshhhhhPOP. Good to know I got lucky on rim/tire selection. Carry on with the foam. Cheers.

  24. #24
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    if you place the foam directly Inside the tyre (not between the rim strip and the split tube) it will never be compressed (i experienced it) and you can reuse it any time as you want. It's also usefull if for any reason your tyre get flat during a ride, the foam continues to push the beads on the rim sides and you can inflate your tyre again with your small pump (i also experienced it). The only additionnal thing for such a usage is to be careful to leave a hole in front of the valve hole and to prevent any move using a old piece of tube to tension both ends of the foam.

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