Was the specialized Fatboy SE intended as an early april fool's prank...- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Was the specialized Fatboy SE intended as an early april fool's prank...

    or is there some other reason a fat bike with its price tag has mechanical disc brakes, loose cup and cone ball bearings, and a FREEWHEEL rear hub with a ten-speed freewheel ?!? That's the kinda spec I'd expect on a mongoose or some other department store fatty, but not from a premium LBS brand.
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  2. #2
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    What's wrong with cup n cone bearings?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight View Post
    or is there some other reason a fat bike with its price tag has mechanical disc brakes, loose cup and cone ball bearings, and a FREEWHEEL rear hub with a ten-speed freewheel ?!? That's the kinda spec I'd expect on a mongoose or some other department store fatty, but not from a premium LBS brand.
    The 2016 has a bolt on axel, but it's a 10 speed cassette, not a freewheel. 2015 had QR front and rear. Glad I got the 2015!

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    Yeah, XT hubs have borozon races that stay smooth even with squared bearings

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    Mine has taken a beating without issue. Brakes work great and are quiet after some miles.

    No complaints other than the seam on the rims leaks on the tubeless setup.

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    Plus in sub-freezing temps there are issues with hydro brakes. It seems most companies are assuming their starting priced fatties will be a winter bike purchase and they are spec'd accordingly.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHowley2003 View Post
    Plus in sub-freezing temps there are issues with hydro brakes. It seems most companies are assuming their starting priced fatties will be a winter bike purchase and they are spec'd accordingly.
    Please tell me about these issues that prevented me from stopping with my hydro brakes when it was -20? What will moisture in the cables/housing do on a cable brake in the cold? Extra points if you can guess where this picture was taken...Was the specialized Fatboy SE intended as an early april fool's prank...-dscn1421.jpg
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHowley2003 View Post
    Plus in sub-freezing temps there are issues with hydro brakes.
    As a blanket statement this needs clarification. It's like saying that Specialized sucks donkey balls, without specifying the amount of hair on said balls.

    Some hydro brakes, specifically those using mineral oil, aren't good much below zero degrees.

    I've ridden DOT fluid hydros down to 40, 50 and 60 below zero.

    Specialized has the resources to do their own testing to determine which hydros would work in cold temps and which won't. But they're too busy picking ball hair out of their teeth to bother.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    As a blanket statement this needs clarification. It's like saying that Specialized sucks donkey balls, without specifying the amount of hair on said balls.

    Some hydro brakes, specifically those using mineral oil, aren't good much below zero degrees.
    Yup, blanket statements aren't very good. In -20, my Mineral Shimano was pretty much exactly the same as my DOT Avid. Both were pretty stiff, but both still worked just fine. Mineral oil standards are not "standard", so the fluid from say Magura can differ radically from the fluid from Shimano, as far as performance at temperatures. I probably wouldn't take the mineral oil brakes much below that temp, as DOT fluid performance is likely to be better, but the overall statements are way too dogmatic.

    Based on the performance, I upgraded my brakes and now both of my brakes are mineral-oil based.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    What's wrong with cup n cone bearings?
    Nothing if done properly but I have doubts that a formula fat hub on a bike at that price level is likely doing it properly given all the other short cuts in the componentry Specialized took.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chinman View Post
    The 2016 has a bolt on axel, but it's a 10 speed cassette, not a freewheel. 2015 had QR front and rear. Glad I got the 2015!
    Its not. Its a freewheel. Sunrace actually does make 11-36 10 speed freewheels and Specialized went and spec'ed it. Good luck sourcing replacements at just any old LBS like you could an actual cassette. I physicially examined a 2016 with the bolted rear axle and freewheel only 12 hours ago.

    SunRace Cassette 10-speed 11-36 for E-Bikes | Cassette - Freewheel Shop
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight View Post
    Its not. Its a freewheel. Sunrace actually does make 11-36 10 speed freewheels and Specialized went and spec'ed it. Good luck sourcing replacements at just any old LBS like you could an actual cassette. I physicially examined a 2016 with the bolted rear axle and freewheel only 12 hours ago.

    SunRace Cassette 10-speed 11-36 for E-Bikes | Cassette - Freewheel Shop
    Wow, that is messed up! The Spec website says 11-36 cassette, but it also says 27.2 mm seatpost diameter. The seatpost has been wrong for a year now. I thought the 2015 bike was a decent value, but def not the 2016.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Extra points if you can guess where this picture was taken...Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Dscn1421.jpg 
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    I'm going to go out on a limb and say it was taken at your derailleur.


  14. #14
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    The change between spec sheet and actual happens sometimes, but in this case I'd be suspicious. Contact Specialized and see if they sent some out with other than spec sheet builds. If they didn't, you may have a screwball swapping parts off your build (at the shop) for their build. I've never heard of this happening in a bike shop, but that doesn't mean it couldn't.

  15. #15
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    I am just curious what you expect from Specialized for 1500 bucks?

    Not to be trite, but thats not exactly a bigh end bike, nor does the price reflect it. My experience tells me that in order to deliver a fat bike at $1500 retail and still maintain margins, the parts you listed were neccesary.

    you get what you pay for.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forster View Post
    The change between spec sheet and actual happens sometimes...
    Yup. It says this at the bottom of the spec sheet on every specialized bike page...

    Specifications subject to change without notice.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight View Post
    Its not. Its a freewheel. Sunrace actually does make 11-36 10 speed freewheels and Specialized went and spec'ed it. Good luck sourcing replacements at just any old LBS like you could an actual cassette. I physicially examined a 2016 with the bolted rear axle and freewheel only 12 hours ago.

    SunRace Cassette 10-speed 11-36 for E-Bikes | Cassette - Freewheel Shop
    I'm surprised that would spec that simply based on cost, from the link you provided it is more expensive than the cheap cassette and freehub that came stock on the 2015. I guess the 2015 SE is (was) the way to go. My neighbor bought one and pimped it out nicely for less than my Expert base model cost.
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  18. #18
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    The sunrace cassette on the first round of fatboys that were sold (all levels I believe) was all individual cogs that dug into the free hub under load.

    My guess is they speced the freewheel on the SE to mitigate this problem. And the higher models now have the wide range sunrace cassette for the same reason.

    TPE15: Sunrace adds wide range 10 / 11 speed mountain bike cassettes, derailleurs

    A lot of us early fatboy users (myself included) upgraded to the Shimano XT cassette to avoid this problem.

    Shimano M771 XT 10 Speed Cassette > Components > Drivetrain > Cassettes | Jenson USA

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paochow View Post
    I'm surprised that would spec that simply based on cost, from the link you provided it is more expensive than the cheap cassette and freehub that came stock on the 2015. I guess the 2015 SE is (was) the way to go. My neighbor bought one and pimped it out nicely for less than my Expert base model cost.
    As noted above, this is suposedly an e.bike freewheel, with perhaps a higher torque rating than the cheap freehub option at the same price. ....simply from a warranty / service aspect it could make sense for this reason alone.

  20. #20
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    This is rear axle on the 2016 SE







    it weighs 607g and is certainly not sealed bearings.

    How do I remove the free hub body?

  21. #21
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    This is what the spec sheet says on the rear hub
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Was the specialized Fatboy SE intended as an early april fool's prank...-screen-shot-2015-12-22-14.41.01.png  


  22. #22
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    Jayem and Mikesee, don't you guys know that all hydraulic brakes fail when in the cold. That's why it's not safe to drive in the cold and certainly not safe to ride your hydraulic brake equipped bike below 32 degrees.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by db3266 View Post
    This is rear axle on the 2016 SE







    it weighs 607g and is certainly not sealed bearings.

    How do I remove the free hub body?
    That is a cassette hub, not a freewheel hub. The cassette fits over the splined freehub... A freewheel hub would only have a threaded portion on the hub shell, not a freehub.

  24. #24
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    How does it come off?

  25. #25
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    Maybe a spanner of sorts on those rectangular cut outs on what looks like the cup.
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by db3266 View Post
    How does it come off?
    Man, you took the picture. You're starring at it.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by db3266 View Post
    How does it come off?
    If they stole the design from Shimano, it'll be a larger hex key in the center (where the axle goes thru)...

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by db3266 View Post
    How does it come off?
    Most likely with a 12mm allen key from the non-drive side. Possibly with an 11mm from the drive, but if there is an allen bolt you can get to from the non-drive side, that would be the place to start. Probably on there really hard.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by db3266 View Post
    This is rear axle on the 2016 SE







    it weighs 607g and is certainly not sealed bearings.

    How do I remove the free hub body?
    Is the cassette that came off there individual cogs or spider construction for the largest cogs?

  30. #30
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    It was a spider, the last few smallest cogs were individual.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by knl2stl View Post
    Most likely with a 12mm allen key from the non-drive side. Possibly with an 11mm from the drive, but if there is an allen bolt you can get to from the non-drive side, that would be the place to start. Probably on there really hard.
    Thanks.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by db3266 View Post
    It was a spider, the last few smallest cogs were individual.
    So it's the new sunrace cassette I linked earlier. Good to see Specialized made this change.

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    Yes, it was a Sunrace cassette, but not the one you linked to.



    It weighed 390g

  34. #34
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    You might luck out, but you're likely in for a very difficult time removing it from a hub that is no longer laced into a wheel. There really isn't an easy way to grasp the hub without marring it. Strap wrenches might work.

  35. #35
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    It's OK, I don't need to replace it or anything, I was just curious. I have stripped the whole bike down and upgraded every component, I was just poking around with the rear hub and stripping it down for no other reason than pure curiosity.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by db3266 View Post
    How does it come off?
    10mm allen wrench inside the freehub body, same as on shimano hubs.
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by classrc View Post
    That is a cassette hub, not a freewheel hub. The cassette fits over the splined freehub... A freewheel hub would only have a threaded portion on the hub shell, not a freehub.
    Yes, but as already explained they have switched to freewheel hubs. I shall take a picture if folks are unbelievers next time I'm in the dealer I was at yesterday.
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    Jayem and Mikesee, don't you guys know that all hydraulic brakes fail when in the cold. That's why it's not safe to drive in the cold and certainly not safe to ride your hydraulic brake equipped bike below 32 degrees.
    In cars they add anti-freeze to the brake fluid so that it can still work at low temps. It's really important if you live in Minnesota.

    -F
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleas View Post
    In cars they add anti-freeze to the brake fluid so that it can still work at low temps. It's really important if you live in Minnesota.

    -F
    Really? How many new cars are sold with anti-freeze in the brake lines? I live in Alaska and I've never heard of that. (my car brakes work in the cold though, thankfully).
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleas View Post
    In cars they add anti-freeze to the brake fluid so that it can still work at low temps. It's really important if you live in Minnesota.

    -F
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Really? How many new cars are sold with anti-freeze in the brake lines? I live in Alaska and I've never heard of that. (my car brakes work in the cold though, thankfully).

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleas View Post
    In cars they add anti-freeze to the brake fluid so that it can still work at low temps. It's really important if you live in Minnesota.

    -F
    WHAT?
    Did they make marijuana legal in Minnesota?

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    If I'm a manufacturer looking to hit a lower price point I chose proven performance. All the discussion regarding which brakes work best costs money and the goal is to offer a reliable fat bike comparable to other manufacturers at the right price. Could all the geniuses here tell me which brakes Surly and other manufacturers offer at a sub-$1800 dollar price point?

    Technical FAQ: More on disc brakes in cold weather - VeloNews.com

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHowley2003 View Post
    If I'm a manufacturer looking to hit a lower price point I chose proven performance. All the discussion regarding which brakes work best costs money and the goal is to offer a reliable fat bike comparable to other manufacturers at the right price. Could all the geniuses here tell me which brakes Surly and other manufacturers offer at a sub-$1800 dollar price point?

    Technical FAQ: More on disc brakes in cold weather - VeloNews.com
    SHowley, you said, "in sub-freezing temps there are issues with hydro brakes". A number of us have called you out on that because that statement is far from the truth. I could care less what VeloNews has to say about the topic. We weren't talking about price point, and in the statement above, neither were you. I think the ones who have responded to that statement spend a fair amount of time riding below "sub-freezing temps" which might qualify us as "geniuses", but it certainly qualifies us as knowledgeable about the topic.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHowley2003 View Post
    If I'm a manufacturer looking to hit a lower price point I chose proven performance. All the discussion regarding which brakes work best costs money and the goal is to offer a reliable fat bike comparable to other manufacturers at the right price. Could all the geniuses here tell me which brakes Surly and other manufacturers offer at a sub-$1800 dollar price point?

    Technical FAQ: More on disc brakes in cold weather - VeloNews.com
    What that does that have to do with your earlier far-reaching statement?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    WHAT?
    Did they make marijuana legal in Minnesota?
    He's not totally wrong. DOT 3.4 and 5.1 are glycol-based, as is most antifreeze. Pretty sure the glycol-based brake fluids stay liquid at lower temps than mineral oil or silicone based fluids.

  46. #46
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    Don't mess with the cutouts. The tiny bearings in the freehub will come spilling out and you don't want that. Most likely, the freehub body is screwed to the hub and comes off by putting the correct size hex key in the end and turning it.
    It's all good!

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmooveP View Post
    He's not totally wrong. DOT 3.4 and 5.1 are glycol-based, as is most antifreeze. Pretty sure the glycol-based brake fluids stay liquid at lower temps than mineral oil or silicone based fluids.
    Depends on the specific mineral oil, BUT DOT 5.0 Silicone brake fluid does work fine in shimano brakes, and has a better lower temperature viscosity than DOT 3 or 4 and about equal to DOT 5.1, so if you're riding in REALLY cold conditions, re-bleed your brakes with the good stuff.
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  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmooveP View Post
    He's not totally wrong. DOT 3.4 and 5.1 are glycol-based, as is most antifreeze. Pretty sure the glycol-based brake fluids stay liquid at lower temps than mineral oil or silicone based fluids.
    He said that they add antifreeze to the brake fluid. Yes, he was wrong.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleas View Post
    In cars they add anti-freeze to the brake fluid so that it can still work at low temps. It's really important if you live in Minnesota.

    -F
    Also, leave your headlights on overnight to keep them from freezing.

    If your windshield is frozen, throw a pot of boiling water on it.

    More Winterizing tips coming. Watch this space!

    -F
    It's never easier - you just go faster.

  50. #50
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    Brakes should be wrapped in foam clothing to keep from freezing up in the winter. It's really amazing and when you experience it, a very surreal experience.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
    Brakes should be wrapped in foam clothing to keep from freezing up in the winter. It's really amazing and when you experience it, a very surreal experience.
    Has anyone thought about what durometer is best for winter braking?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  52. #52
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    it seems the next model up fatboy for 1950 is worth the extra 450

    carbon fork instead of alloy
    sealed cartridge bearings in the hubs instead of loose ball bearing
    120 tpi folding tires instead of the 60tpi wire bead tires
    x7 over the x5 rear derailleur
    plus the hydro brakes. i dont mind the mechanical especially when compared to low end hydro stuff.

  53. #53
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    Depends how much you are planning on upgrading. The base Fatboy doesn't have much better components, and $450 will buy a set of Deore or better brakes, a GX RD, XT cassette, a 150mm hub, and about cut a bit into the price of adding a Bluto.
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  54. #54
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    Look into the end of the cassette body. It likely is a 10mm hex key to remove ahollow bolt.
    Early cassette style, go figure.
    Get fAt, Stay fAt, Ride fAt
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