Second Husker Du death and the end of the Mukluk endurance bike experiment- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Second Husker Du death and the end of the Mukluk endurance bike experiment

    Yes..this is the exact thing that happened 2 weeks ago that I posted about.Another piece of rock penetrating the tread area.
    I bought this bike last fall with the idea of a all around bike for the winter etc. allowing me to continue mountain training when the trails/fireroads would not be suitable for my crossbike.But I realized the potential as an endurance rig (despite the weight),surprising climbing ability etc. I changed some things the big ones being the tires to HD's.When using the bike on extremely rocky terrain the tires held up.My thoughts being if they were going to have issues this would be the terrain.No problems.

    2 weeks ago when the first HD went down I chalked it up to bad luck which continued on my crossbike with a flat on that bike too.My new Nate 120 TPI arrived and I eagerly put it in front and the surviving HD in back.Tuesday going out for a training ride as I'm only 4 weeks away from my 100 miler race(Michaux Trail Cup) I descended the first long descent on fireroad approaching 40 mph.The Nate in front gripped the curves and I thought this all worked out.Climbed another rd. to the top...bombed down.Near the bottom the rear end felt unstable and as i stopped I heard the Hd deflating like a balloon.

    I know many of you don't use your fatbikes in this manner but a growing number do.Sandman website is a testiment to its potentail.It may not be the perfect tool for the job but its a hell of a good time for sure.

    So now 3 weeks from my race but worse yet...these tires can't withstand the type of riding I do.I can't even imagine riding on these trails let alone a 100 miler.Depressed as hell I made a decision that many will flame me for but those of you reading this may benefit.I would "cannibalize" the bike for parts and do a 29er build.I went to my favorite bikeshop who have great mechanics and love creative challenges.

    I needed to save as much $$$ as possible as I now have to tell the Misses about a not so cheap mistake.With her support,the mechanic and I worked on building up a Karate Monkey using brakes/rotors/ levers,RD,cassette,chain,tried FD but problem solvers didn't make the correct adapter so I used another I had,About $500 in parts...I upgraded some things.

    So now I'm looking to sell the carnage which is left.I'll post it for sale when the KM projects complete.
    To make this a fuctioning bike again..
    1)brakes/rotors.
    2)RD
    3)cassette/ chain
    4)possibly stem as we're doing a fit this week ...may switch to Thompson.
    I have 2 wounded HD's and my new Nate with a whole 10 miles on it which all will be sold.

    My concern is the HD's inabilty to withstand higher descending speeds.Its lighter but many are going that route as I hope this isn't a design flaw thats going to come out as more people start regular trail riding.
    Do you guys think I should contact 45 north to complain as I spent $250 for tires that survived a half dozen rides?
    Thanks.

  2. #2
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    Pics?

    No problems with your Nate though?

    If the Nate is holding up ok, I'd stick one on the back - maybe trim the knobs down a bit to make it more like the HD size.

    But you're probably using the tyres beyond their design parameters. It would be worth making sure QBP know about this.
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  3. #3
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    Ask you mechanic how to inflate the tires for the terrain/weight/ridingstyle.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    Pics?

    No problems with your Nate though?

    If the Nate is holding up ok, I'd stick one on the back - maybe trim the knobs down a bit to make it more like the HD size.

    But you're probably using the tyres beyond their design parameters. It would be worth making sure QBP know about this.
    That was the 1st Nate run.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by shackleton47 View Post
    That was the 1st Nate run.
    I agree with using beyond there use parameters.Inov8's or probably Nates would be ok.As far as tire pressures I ran them around 20....the same as the Endo's/Larry that were replaced because of washout tendencies.Probably didn't go quite as fast with them.FYI I ran my crossbike all last year over the same fireroads...no probs.
    I know anybody who reads this probably disagrees but if you can't ride how/where I want with the bike its time to switch.In the last month I've spent $360 ..i just can't pull the trigger again for another tire.As far as a picture ,I think I posted the previous HD in my death of a HD thread.Its exactly the same.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by shackleton47 View Post
    I agree with using beyond there use parameters.Inov8's or probably Nates would be ok.As far as tire pressures I ran them around 20....the same as the Endo's/Larry that were replaced because of washout tendencies.Probably didn't go quite as fast with them.FYI I ran my crossbike all last year over the same fireroads...no probs.
    I know anybody who reads this probably disagrees but if you can't ride how/where I want with the bike its time to switch.In the last month I've spent $360 ..i just can't pull the trigger again for another tire.As far as a picture ,I think I posted the previous HD in my death of a HD thread.Its exactly the same.
    20psi? That's probably why your tires failed. At a lower pressure the tires could have conformed to the shape of the rock and the puncture would have been avoided. I never run more than 10psi and to be safe I use the 27tpi versions on my girlfriends bike as well as mine.

  7. #7
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    Sorry about your bad experiences dude...

    Original thread.

    Does your camera have a macro function? I appreciate your forthrightness and want you to continue, but that pic is very blurry and I can't tell what's going on.
    Disclaimer: I run Regular Cycles (as of 2016). As a profiteer of the bicycle industry, I am not to be taken very seriously.

  8. #8
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    I couldn't imagine running one over 10 psi.

  9. #9
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    20 psi is probably why your larry/endo's were washing out too. I did a trail ride today with a Larry/HuDu combo over some nasty volcanic rock... They held up fine, and the traction was pretty awesome. Only one slippage on the HuDu going up a steep rocky swtichback. I had 9 to 10 psi in both tires.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgw2jr View Post
    20psi? That's probably why your tires failed. At a lower pressure the tires could have conformed to the shape of the rock and the puncture would have been avoided. I never run more than 10psi and to be safe I use the 27tpi versions on my girlfriends bike as well as mine.
    I would agree with this. Running 3.7s with that much pressure makes them pretty vulnerable. Same reason that the roadies with 120 psi tubulars avoid gravel roads...

  11. #11
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    I'd REALLY hate to see you waste all that time and money simply because your tire pressure was too high. I plan to ride my Mukluk in a 150 mile gravel road race here in Eastern Iowa later this summer. I wouldn't do it on any other bike. Fatbike eats up gravel like it's nothing.The driftless area is hilly and steep so the traction and float is gonna be nice when barreling down those hills.

    Also, if your wife is anything like my SO, she'll tell you to suck it up, throw on one of them old tires that still hold air and race it anyway! =)

  12. #12
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    I'll take your Nate!
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  13. #13
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    I rode a larry w/ a surly tube in it all season last year on varied northeast terrain. I only got one flat and it happened because I just wore out the tube. At one point I managed to get a piece of wood lodged in the sidewall. Pulled it out, no flat kept riding. The tire is now into its second season and I have only had 1 flat. I thought that most peoples experience with these tires is that they are very, very durable. Sorry to hear that you gave up on a very cool bike so quickly.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by shackleton47 View Post
    I agree with using beyond there use parameters.Inov8's or probably Nates would be ok.As far as tire pressures I ran them around 20....the same as the Endo's/Larry that were replaced because of washout tendencies.Probably didn't go quite as fast with them.FYI I ran my crossbike all last year over the same fireroads...no probs.
    I know anybody who reads this probably disagrees but if you can't ride how/where I want with the bike its time to switch.In the last month I've spent $360 ..i just can't pull the trigger again for another tire.As far as a picture ,I think I posted the previous HD in my death of a HD thread.Its exactly the same.
    20psi is WAY high. I have done road/gravel/trail rides with 11psi in 120tpi Nates and thought they felt a bit too hard.
    7-8psi on rocky/rooty trails.
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    I agree with the low pressure as well. I have a set of Husker Du's on my 6" FS fatbike with 14psi front and 12psi rear, it's gone through some rocky DH trails over 40mph several times with no problems. Coming up on 700mi on them, almost all dirt. The side tread is wearing faster than I had hoped but still plenty of grip with no noticeable loss. Sidewalls are in better shape than I figured they would be at this point but I'm sure the suspension is helping to soften out the hits.

    I would stay with the fat setup if you could or give it another ride with a set of Nates at a lower pressure and see how you hold up and do for time. It's easier to adapt to a set of tires than a whole new bike especially with just a few weeks away.

    -Nolan

  16. #16
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    Sorry to see you throw in so soon, I was looking forward to seeing you and your bike at some races.

    I agree with the ones who spoke before me, WAY too much pressure. From January 2011 till mid Febuary 2012 my Fatback was the only Mountain bike I rode. I played around with pressure and what worked best for me was low 9 psi front and high 9's rear any thing below 9 psi and I pinch flat. I have been running Larry front and endomorph rear on GFS rims. A couple of big rides in the Frederick Watershed and Gambril State Park, the rocks are large and plentifull there. In a little over a year I have had six flats, luckily no cuts, four pinch flats and two thorns, a ding or two on the rims. I know luck plays a part and I have been lucky with the Fatback. Years ago I was doing a race at Michaux and got a flat, someone had dropped there folding tool and the scredriver was pointing up and it went thru my tread and out the sidewall, riuned a brand new tire.

    I would remove the rock from your first tire and put a patch on the inside and keep running it, if the second one has the same type cut I would keep running it also. The tire looks fine.

    Cheers,
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  17. #17
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    I missed the 20 psi bit. Way too high - I only use that for seating my beads.

    I did a 24 hour race on 8psi - not as fast as you, I'm sure - but plenty rocky bits and opportunities for pinch flats.

    I can't envisage riding at much higher pressures, the bike bounds around too much at speed.
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  18. #18
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    20 psi

    An expensive let down for you ,

    yep, down between 8-10psi max for grip and comfort.
    I am yet to be convinced about all these new tyres doing the rounds, with there cost per pair if your present tyres are ok it is a big layout.

    Also those nates that grip well must be a drag on fire roads?
    Quite happy with my Larrys on both bikes, do all i need, except thick clay, which i have no interest in riding on a fat bike there heavy enough


    Ah the good old days when all we had was 60TPI endos - over 20 mph steer left to turn right, right to turn left!
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  19. #19
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    Thanks for the input. Expensive learning curve.

  20. #20
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    i have to say, all these wrecked tires sound scary, but when you see how flimsy they are in your hand, you do wonder how they cope at all.

    had a few punctures in my BFLs, glass, fishing hook and thorn, even the mighty nates had a thorn puncture on a beach ride too.

    the outer casing on my BFLs has scratched off in places, and its barely seen any action.

    just saying, my other bikes have never suffered any punctures, its a rare thing for me, so i dont know if its just thin 120tpi fatty tires are to blame?
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by saltyman View Post
    ...i dont know if its just thin 120tpi fatty tires are to blame?
    Could it be the wider contact patch means a higher probability of rolling over something sharp?
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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  22. #22
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    i would of thought the main cause was going to be pinch flats, i used to get them in my BMX days and soon as i seen how low pressure fat bikes deform when out on rocks etc i wasnt sure.

    never had one yet though.

    been running my moonlander at 10psi at the minute, was on nates, back on BFL now and purely being being used for cycle paths around town, 99% paved or tarmac. last 150 mile been ideal mix of comfort and ride quality, i have stopped using my hybrid with semis.
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    I've never ridden HD's, but I was eager to try them, perhaps lucky they are out of stock everywhere or I might have a similar story to tell? It might also just be bad luck! I wouldn't have given up so quick!

    I also can't see why people are screaming hell about riding 20 psi?

    I can't follow my bikebuddies on a normal MTB on a trail or on the road if I run low tire pressure, with larry's 15 psi is about the lowest I can go if I want to ride with my friends,
    As a rule of thumb I ride with 5 to 8 psi less than I would with a normal bike. I still have a more comfortable ride, much more grip and stability and it rolls as good as a normal MTB. If it is a really technical ride for a normal bike I drop to around 15/16 psi. but then I start worrying about denting the rim or riding a snakebite!
    Even during a beachrace I rode 22 psi as there was a lot of hard sand where I would loose more with soft tires than I could win by be able to ride everything!

    If it is a muddy ride with normal bikes I pump the nates to 22-30 psi: with less pressure the knobs tend to slide over the mud in corners and during braking, High pressure make the knobs bite. With "high pressure" the nates roll as well as a lot of other normal mud tires.

    On the real fatbike stuff like loose sand, snow, grid,.. I lower to 10 psi, but I can imagine that a 80 or 100 mm rim might roll a bit better at low pressure compared to the 47 mm trailtech rim. I guess that on a wider rim I might run 5 or 6 psi for the soft stuff. But, for trail riding a real wide rim is more volnurable.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    Could it be the wider contact patch means a higher probability of rolling over something sharp?
    I often find stuff in the tire that didn't get through the casing, I guess you need some pressure to push a thorn or a piece of glass through the casing. If it's not real sharp i doesn't get through.
    I have less flats with larry's than with a normal tire.

  25. #25
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    I would probably add a pound or two of pressure over what I use for snow for rocky riding of my mukluk, but at 20psi I just know I'd be ricocheting off every tree root and rock on the trail.
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

  26. #26
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    Just ran my HD through one of our rougher rides locally, last night.

    8.5 PSI, roots and rocks ALL over the place, and I was just flying. Obviously rocks are sharper in some areas of the world, than others, but this is all east coast granite, no soft rounded sandstone around here.

    Another vote for less pressure.

    Try the Origin8's, cheap, and burly. Should solve both issues at once.

    As for the guy not keeping up with pals at lower pressures, it's in your head, I'm telling you. I ride with a group of at least 8 to 10 guys, at least half now have some sort of fat bike, and each of them keeps up just as well on any bike they ride. Sure, we can all have an off ride, it happens, but it isn't tire pressure.....
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  27. #27
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    All the pictures and video's during the Sandman tests & races site are with 10-12 psi. The real agressive guys hucking off stuff run around 15 psi to avoid pinch flats. We've only had one Larry for the rubbish bin after a mayor pinch flat which punched the rim right through the tire. Larr's and Nate's are pretty bomproof.

    As for HD's, we just received a pair to test, but it might take a while until we get to some real sharp rocks and big drops.

    As for the pressures Nothing's Impossible is running: he needs different pressures compared to almost all of us due to his pretty unique riding style. Take a look at one of his video's.

    zee.wmv - YouTube

    The first hint is given by his pretty unique camera angle (starting at 1.14'').
    If you still don't grasp it - take a look at the fleeting shot at 1.52''. You'll also understand his nick better

  28. #28
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    Like someone said. If the Nates worked out why would you abandon a fat bike because another tire does not work? Just run the Nates.

    Getting flats from thorns or fish hooks or anything pointy has nothing to do with fat tire reliability. Run some sealant.

    20 psi does seem way to high for anything other than smooth or tarmac. But I do run 15psi in the rear and between 8 and 10 in the front. But I'm on 47mm rims and that may account for needing more pressure. If I was running 6 psi the tires would fold over in corners and be wallowy. Low psi is for snow or sand.

    Running more pressure in the front than the rear is counter intuitive. It's much easier to ride light in the front than the rear, plus you can miss things much easier with the front tire. I always run more pressure in the rear on all bikes all tires.

    Finally if someone is always bashing their rims, particularly with this much tire for protection, they need to learn how to ride lighter on the bike.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    As for the guy not keeping up with pals at lower pressures, it's in your head, I'm telling you. I ride with a group of at least 8 to 10 guys, at least half now have some sort of fat bike, and each of them keeps up just as well on any bike they ride. Sure, we can all have an off ride, it happens, but it isn't tire pressure.....
    It is not in the head.

    My heartrate, common sense and other fatbikers tell me that on an even surface the additional deformation of the tire and the additional drag increase the rolling resistance.
    You need a pretty uneven or soft surface to overcome this disadvantage!

    Resistance of course becomes more important as the speed increases. If we are riding at a slow pace, I can keep up with flat tires, but if the speed goes to 25 km/h or more it is impossible to follow with low pressure.
    And we often end up with averages over 25 km/h for a relatively flat ride!

    I will film a ride one of these days so you get an idea of the riding conditions!

  30. #30
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    So many good points here. The most prominent one is the pressure thing. 20psi is high. Tarmac high. For trail use, you're going to get the best performance out of lower pressures. 10-15[at the highest] is best. Lower pressure for softer surfaces[mud, sand], higher for hardpack and smoother trails. Remember, one or two psi makes quite a large difference in these tires. Experiment with what works best for each trail surface you encounter.


    Oh, and PLEASE stop being so uppity about your[this is in general] trails and how gnar they are and how we just don't get it!

    SHOW us how gnar they are. Then we might believe you.
    Just a regular guy.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    As for the guy not keeping up with pals at lower pressures, it's in your head, I'm telling you. I ride with a group of at least 8 to 10 guys, at least half now have some sort of fat bike, and each of them keeps up just as well on any bike they ride. Sure, we can all have an off ride, it happens, but it isn't tire pressure.....
    What I noticed when I built up my FS fat bike is that I was up 1 or 2 gears on the same trail from a similar weight bike with 2.5 tires. And riding down a long grassy hill was much smoother and faster. No being slowed down when skinny hard tires hit irregularities. Fat tires just float over stuff.

    The only draw backs I see to fat tires is carving lines when you need to turn fast in rough terrain, in other words with current tires I don't think they are going to dominate DH, and the extra weight gets to you when climbing.

  32. #32
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    More than half of my fat bike riding has been on dirt, rocks and in thorn country as well as beaches with lots of sharp shells and such. I've had a handful of flats [thorns & the odd puffer fish carcass], but my tires have never been damaged. I tend to run low pressures except on pavement.

    I can't speak to the H Dus in particular, but people do remark on how light they are so they may just be the wrong tire for your application.
    Last edited by vikb; 03-26-2012 at 08:06 AM.
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    Could it be the wider contact patch means a higher probability of rolling over something sharp?
    Maybe, but a firmer casing (higher pressure) is easier to puncture than a more flexible one.
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by saltyman View Post
    i have to say, all these wrecked tires sound scary, but when you see how flimsy they are in your hand, you do wonder how they cope at all.

    had a few punctures in my BFLs, glass, fishing hook and thorn, even the mighty nates had a thorn puncture on a beach ride too.

    the outer casing on my BFLs has scratched off in places, and its barely seen any action.

    just saying, my other bikes have never suffered any punctures, its a rare thing for me, so i dont know if its just thin 120tpi fatty tires are to blame?
    I was surprised at how thick and stiff the 120tpi tires were.
    More comparable to a 60tpi (or coarser) 2.2" tire. Nowhere near as flexible as most narrower 120tpi casings.
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    More than half of my fat bike riding has been on dirt, rocks and in thorn country as well as beaches with lots of sharp shells and such. I've had a handful of flats [thorns & the odd puffer fish carcass], but my tires have never been damaged. I tend to run low pressures except of pavement.

    I can't speak to the H Dus in particular, but people do remark on how light they are so they may just be the wrong tire for your application.
    That's what I was thinking. HD's have had some quality issues that it seems the other tires haven't - and they tend to be lighter (thinner?). I really like mine on the front of my half-fat, but I did notice when I got it that the sidewalls and inside of the tire didn't look the same as my Larry and Nate. There were a few thin copper colored threads showing through on the outside of the sidewalls that looked like where two segments of material weren't completely joined during assembly. Didn't look like something that would catastrophically fail or anything, but it was indicative of general quality. My Larry and Nates have very smooth/nice sidewalls and the inside of the casing looks better.

    For now, the tire setup I have is:

    Half-Fat Niner EMD ("XC/light bike"): HD front, Conti Mtn King 2.4 rear. Pressures @ ~10 and ~25 with inner tubes and Stan's.

    Full Fat Mukluk ("Everything/bad weather/fun bike"): Nate front, Larry rear run backwards. Pressures @ ~10 front and rear for general riding (we haven't had much snow at all this year) with inner tubes and Stan's.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by caminoloco View Post
    All the pictures and video's during the Sandman tests & races site are with 10-12 psi. The real agressive guys hucking off stuff run around 15 psi to avoid pinch flats. We've only had one Larry for the rubbish bin after a mayor pinch flat which punched the rim right through the tire. Larr's and Nate's are pretty bomproof.

    As for HD's, we just received a pair to test, but it might take a while until we get to some real sharp rocks and big drops.

    As for the pressures Nothing's Impossible is running: he needs different pressures compared to almost all of us due to his pretty unique riding style. Take a look at one of his video's.

    zee.wmv - YouTube

    The first hint is given by his pretty unique camera angle (starting at 1.14'').
    If you still don't grasp it - take a look at the fleeting shot at 1.52''. You'll also understand his nick better
    Very impressive!!!!!!!

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgeworker View Post
    Very impressive!!!!!!!
    Absolutely. And that is some calorie burning going on there.

    But nothing to test the integrity of the tires.

  38. #38
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    I agree on the tire pressure.

    I made the mistake first couple rides, I was bouncing around like crazy. Now I generally run about 10 or so, no rim hits (usually), & no bouncy bouncy.

    Sorry about the bad luck with the HD's. I have a decent amount of miles on mine (all dirt, & no flats yet *crosses fingers*

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~martini~ View Post
    Oh, and PLEASE stop being so uppity about your[this is in general] trails and how gnar they are and how we just don't get it!

    SHOW us how gnar they are. Then we might believe you.
    In case of 'Nothings impossible', the fact that he does ride a bike AT ALL is gnar enough for me! Nothing but respect!

  40. #40
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    About riding light: try 2:48 in the link from camino, riding upstairs using momentum, with low pressure without hitting the rim??
    15 psi is the least I dared, and I already felt the rim!

    There is also a movie " riding in Gedinne" or something on my channel, a bit more challenging for the tires!

    Riding with one leg makes a difference in riding ligth, but the influence on rolling resistance will be limited i guess?


    The definition of trail riding might indeed be different, to put thing's into perspective:
    Even in the most technical Belgian marathons there is plenty of smooth and tarmac (although there are also plenty of funny parts), Avg speed for top riders (not me) is over 20 Km/h for 115 km and 2900 altimeters (raid des hautes fagnes).Discussions for these top riders go about rigid or suspended fork and these guys ride with 30 psi in semi-slick tyres, more moderate riders are more willing to make a compromise between the smooth and harsh parts and they discuss about hardtail or race-fully and Racing ralph or nobby nick at 26 PSI depending the wheather.

    I am talking about a fatbike with front suspension that weights about the double of the lightest bikes
    Even with 20 psi larry's still give me more grip, traction, stability and about the same level of comfort than a 29'er softtail, by most people considered as the most comfortable option for such a ride, and yet they 'll run as fast on the tarmac as a 29'er RR on 26 bar.

    So with this compromise, I reduce the chance of standing by foot on a technical climb, win some places in the downhill's and loose some places in the smooth climbs!
    The only downside is the weight, but the risk of me breaking the bike becomes verry small!

    In the less technical Belgian marathon's I would consider riding with 29'er wheels in the sandman, a big difference in weight.

    And, as bonus I can lower the tire pressure to have a more comfortable ride, do some sandstretches or more technical riding!

    Perfect would be a remote controlled, on the fly tire inflator/deflator but as long as it does not exist, I 'll make the compromise!

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    I usually run between 7-10psi on my fat tires. I waste a lot of energy just bouncing otherwise. Of course I am not going 40mph on dirt either so ymmv.

    Perhaps you really do not want to race the fatbike, maybe you just want to ride a skinny tire'd bike instead?

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    I run 9-12 psi when using 47mm rims and 3.7 tires. Might go as high as 14 if doing a ride that I know is going to have no singletrack.
    In the winter, with 100mm rims and BFL's, I am down around 3-5 psi.
    I weigh 160 lbs.

  43. #43
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    Mental note to self, next time I take my fully rigid sand, snow, and trekking bike out for a ride make sure I have at least 20psi in case I decide I want to bomb a set of stairs. I'm starting to agree with Mike C. fat bike are not for the masses.

    Great video by the way N.I.

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    Bdundee, if i have to choose between: riding the dunes and the stairs, and keep a pace on the pavement at 16 psi or riding the dunes at 6 psi,not riding the stairs and being passed by old ladies on their citybike on the pavement....
    Not so difficult for me!

    If the beach has real loose sand and I can't ride it at 15 psi, I just lower the pressure!


    About the bouncy stuff:
    For me that is another factor in the pressure compromise as it can be a pain when the bike is underdampend in a downhill, but a vivid bike is in many cases just plain fun and less energyconsuming!

    Low tire pressure, for me under something like 14 psi, makes the bike dead, overdampened: to lift the front wheel I need a pedal stroke, bunnyhop over something is difficult or impossible, if I see a nice dirtjump I need enormous speeds to have some lift,riding a pumptrack is almost impossible,....

    On the other end, to high tire pressure kills the tire as well: to much spring stifness prevents the tire from working, at 26 psi it 's like riding a hardtail, over 30 its like a road racebike.

    In between 14 and 20 psi there is a vivid bike workingzone, with a sweet spot around 16 psi. For me it is a bit like tweaking the suspension of a normal bike, with one difficulty: There is only one parameter to adjust spring, damping ,rolling resistance, the amount of suspension (travel) ... at the same time.
    (not completely true , i can and do adjust the rebound of the fork).

  45. #45
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    [QUOTE=Nothing's impossible;9141994]Bdundee, if i have to choose between: riding the dunes and the stairs, and keep a pace on the pavement at 16 psi or riding the dunes at 6 psi,not riding the stairs and being passed by old ladies on their citybike on the pavement....
    Not so difficult for me!

    Hey to each their own! My fat bike was desigened to ride where no old ladies woud or could ride on their citybikes and that's where I ride it. It looks like you ride a wider variety on yours so you need to go with what works for you but you need to know it's not the norm and its not what most of our drilled out 80-100mm wide rims are designed to do. It is our fault for pushing these bikes as a do all then people buy em and are disappointed when their cx bike can go through more snow or their fr bike is better in the rocks. It has happened a number of times now and is going to keep happening without education.

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    FWIW, I just did a gravel-grinder-type race where my HuDu front and Larry rear were in the 17-20PSI range. I hit 35MPH+ on both gravel and pavement (40+ according to my GPS). The front tube is a Walmart 26 X 2.3 I swapped in there after a flat. I weigh on the close order of 300 lbs. geared up.

    It probably ain't the tubes, tires, or pressure. You just have nasty rocks. Or something.
    Let the market decide!

    N42.58 W83.06

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    Bdungee, indeed, to each their own.
    It was just that I understood the topicstarter when he says he rides 20 psi on trails.

    There will always be people that buy the wrong bike I guess?
    I had the luck to have the opportunity to do some real extended testing before buying.

    There are also differences between different fatbikes, I ride latex tubes, 47 mm rims, suspension fork and the sandman has a trail oriŽnted geometry.
    Adjusting the suspension or changing tubes make it already a different bike, wide rims wil influence riding as well I supose, and geometrie must count for something as well.

    Utabintarbo, how much mile did you run on the hudu's?

  48. #48
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    I think you nailed it there. I ride mostly on wider rims and with the wide rims it seems to bounce alot more when I go up in pressure. With 47mm rims and light tubes you need higher pressure to stabilize the tire on the rim. I have a set of narrow rims with Nates and I need higher pressure to get the same stability, also they seem more tolerant of higher pressures without as much bounce.

    I think that sometimes we don't give ourselves enough credit for how adaptable the human body is.

    Watching your video's is such a huge testiment of just how we can adapt.

    Thanks,
    Steven


    Quote Originally Posted by Nothing's impossible View Post
    Bdungee, indeed, to each their own.
    It was just that I understood the topicstarter when he says he rides 20 psi on trails.

    There will always be people that buy the wrong bike I guess?
    I had the luck to have the opportunity to do some real extended testing before buying.

    There are also differences between different fatbikes, I ride latex tubes, 47 mm rims, suspension fork and the sandman has a trail oriŽnted geometry.
    Adjusting the suspension or changing tubes make it already a different bike, wide rims wil influence riding as well I supose, and geometrie must count for something as well.

    Utabintarbo, how much mile did you run on the hudu's?
    Lucky neighbor of Maryland's Patapsco Valley State Park, 39.23,-76.76 Flickr

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nothing's impossible View Post

    Utabintarbo, how much mile did you run on the hudu's?
    The race was 36 miles, but I've had them on for several training/trail rides. I probably have about just under 250 miles on them, mostly pumped up 17-20PSI for gravel/paved road rides.
    Let the market decide!

    N42.58 W83.06

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by utabintarbo View Post
    The race was 36 miles, but I've had them on for several training/trail rides. I probably have about just under 250 miles on them, mostly pumped up 17-20PSI for gravel/paved road rides.
    Thanks, I was hoping you had more distance on them already, these tires a a bit expensive to throw away after a week!

    But as they are out of stock anyway, could you keep me(us) posted on the wear and tear of the hudu's?

  51. #51
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    What's this about the Husker Dus being lightweight? I weighted mine before fitting and they were almost identical to the Endomorph i took off.

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