Sandman goes to the races !- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Sandman goes to the races !

    The Roc d'Azur is one of the biggest biking events in Europe, if not the world. Think about an offroad racing category and chances are they'll have a race for you during this 5-day event right at the coast between Cannes and Saint Tropez.

    Sandman bikes wanted to have their bikes run a race gauntlet one last time before the office presentation of their fatbike line (one ti, two alu, one steel and a tandem fatbike). Nothing beats real world racing as to find out if a product is up to par, so we took off to the French riviera to participate in a bunch of races with 3 guys from all over Europe as the special "wrecking crew".

    Simon, a German with a penchant for downhilling, be it on skis or on a bike. Martin, a crazy Spaniard who handles a bike like he was born on one and Milton, also from Spain, a guy who loves his races long & tough !

    The first race in which all three entered was the enduro race on thursday. Since they had never participated in such a race (timed downhill specials and lazy "on your own" climbs) they spent the day getting to know each other, waiting on each other to film while biking. According to the filmed material I saw with the stops for fixing the flat tire and picking each other up after crashes, they would have had an easy top-3 finish had they taken it as a race and each for himself. Now they finished 25th, 27th and 124th (due to the flat) out of 154 finishers.
    Not too bad, considering. And in a way great that they acted as a team, not a bunch of individuals. Nice, I much prefer that spirit !



    That Roc Enduro race proved to be a good warmer-up, the three guys got along really well - this was going to be a fun week !

    The next day things started to get serious with the Roc Marathon: 83 kms and 2700 m denivelation. Translated gives that 52 miles and 8900 ft positive.
    Sandman had prepared the very first Hoggar model (titanium frame) as a race bike for Milton. The name comes from the desert where the very first prototype was tested some years ago.
    We got it in France so new that the stickers weren't even applied yet.



    But they were included, so here is the finished result. VERY nice bike in the flesh, weighed in at 12.5 kg or 27.5 lbs without pedals. Not bad considering what the bike is capable of.



    Milton feeling right at home on the bike...





    The only really special part on the bike compared to the series model is the prototype of the new rear hub, a raw beauty. The rear wheel weighed an astonishing 1.1 kg or 2.4 lbs without cassette nor tire.



    Here Milton rolls over the finish of the marathon, in 28th place out of 1478 (!) finishers. If anybody ever tells you that fat bikes can't be fast, have them reconsider. Now. A properly designed and built fatbike runs with the best of the world out there.



    After the race Milton told us that at first other racers were passing him at all sides on the climbs. Some out of pure denial that such a bike could be in front of them. They'd rush past him, only to slow down right afterwards, not being able to sustain the effort.
    But he caught them all back on each descent. After a while some racers got so frustrated at this game that they took to "lesser tactics" to keep him from passing: not giving room, closing the door, even pushing him aside...
    But he kept at it and saw the leads they took on the climbs shrinking as the miles passed. At the end there was no lead anymore and he left the group he had been racing with behind until the finish line.



    In the afternoon it was Simon's turn, for the downhill race training.





    He had done the first run on his normal downhill bike 20-24 cms / 7.8-9.5" travel front & rear and decided against running a Sandman because the top section was too rough: a succession of big and fast bumps that ate up all of his fully's suspension travel. To race a hardtail over that would mean painfull death...
    But after a few runs he realised that he couldn't go for a top finish anyway because it was apparently a well-known descent and the locals literally knew the place of each and every pebble, rock and root. His 5-6 training runs weren't enough to overcome that disadvantage, so he decided to try out the Sandman and just have fun.
    Which he did - whoohooo !





    Saturday morning it was the Sandman Outback tandem who was readied for racing. Luc and Jan had agreed to take the beast out to play. The start was very early at an ungodly hour (just as the sun was rising). It was an impressive sight so see more then 250 tandems (!) barreling down the first corner, I reckon the first teams would have been at around 50 km/h or 31 mph down that turn.
    The Sandman team had a starting number way at the back of the pack so they decided to chill out and have fun, here Jan is waving at the camera.



    They slowly made their way to 163th place out of 229 finishers, with two pair of lungs filled with dust...



    After the tandem race we all hightailed it to the other side of the hills for the downhill qualifying and race. The previous evening we had gotten our hands on a few Surly Nate tires and had put them on Simon's bike.
    By the time we got there, the timed qualifying runs were over and it was funny to see the looks on the faces of 3/4's of the racers when they realised they had to line up behind Simon and the only hardtail in the entire downhill field - precious .
    That in fact was the general reaction from other racers during the whole week: "... wtf... is THAT in front of me... ?!?".

    Simon was very happy with the Nate tires: endless grip in the turns and very good braking power.
    He faultlessly ran his race, but unfortunately there isn't an official result on the Roc's website yet. But there's no reason why he wouldn't have kept his place within the 1st quarter of the racers' field. Respect and great to see what a standard Sandman is capable of in good hands !





    In the meanwhile, Milton was loosening his muscles while checking out the neighbourhood. He came across this odd looking meadow... Try this out at you're own risk, we NEVER gave you this idea !







    After the Roc Down, it was basically done for the day. But all of a sudden Jeff, a friend, came by our rented house telling us that there were still some free slots for the "Roc Ruelles" at Roquebrune, a village nearby. Huh, whassup.. ?? Jeff replied "I think it's a streetrace at night, teams of two racers". Oh... well... ok, let's do this !!
    I hurried to enter two teams. Simon teamed up with Martin, Jeff with Rudi. Milton wanted to compete too, but as I was the only left available and being so out of his league (read: way below ) we decided for the reasonable thing and leave him to rest for the big XC race of the next day. I took a camera to record everything for the next of kin...

    We hurriedly put on a pair of new Black Floyd slicks on Simon's bike and went speeding to the start.
    This race proved to be a totally wild & crazy experience, a street race along the narrow and steep cobblestone streets & alleys of the village, through "tunnels" under the houses and up and down stairs.
    We were welcomed by the speaker yelling in his microphone "ahh, the Belgians from Sandman bikes are here toooooo....". Wild, we made ourselves a reputation in just a few days - never mind that most of the racers were non-Belgians !

    The race format was simple: 70 teams, two series of 35 teams each. The best 15 of each series go through to the final. The series is 30 minutes, about 2 minutes a lap. The final is 20 minutes. Only one team member can race, switching between team mates after each round or later. The only rule is that teammates should touch each other when relaying. Oh, ok.... the guys quickly went for a reconnaisance lap before the start of the 1st series.
    I wasn't able to take many pictures, but I filmed a lot. Video footage will follow.

    Here 3 of the 4 Sandman "crazies" coming down a flight of stairs during that training lap, Jeff at the front. Already getting dark.



    Then it was gawking at the 1st series (luckily we were in the second, so we could watch & learn). It's pretty wild to see 35 guys going flat out, bumping shoulders, full speed into a turn where there's only room for 5 !
    Then 2 minutes "silence" - never mind the blaring music and the cheering crowd - and see them barreling down stairs, turning on the start/finish straight and launching their already speeding teammate into the first turn with a shove or a pull. Everybody just going flat out 100% of the time. Adrenaline pumping !
    Then it was our turn. Martin and Simon rode a spectacular race, the ooh's and the aah's from the public grew louder with each passage - Martin being a born showman. They finished 6th in their heath. Rudi and Jeff finished 20th, so they were out of it.

    Here the ultimate streetbike, with the Nate tires on. Simon was a bit uneasy on it at first because he couldn't find the limit of the grip they offered. He was used to speedsliding his bike into tight corners but no matter what he tried, he couldn't get them to slide so he didn't know where the limit was. He managed to shave off all the rubber "hairs" on the sides of the new tires, just the last ones at the outermost edges were left...



    Here's Martin barreling down the cobblestones and sliding into a narrow tunnel under some houses. He always went drifting in there going at least 20 km/h, down some stairs at the entrance.
    He also regularly jumped the second half of the big stairs, landing way into the street but still somehow managing to flow into the start-finish line with the hooting and hollering crowd instinctively retreating - easily the most spectacular biker of the whole bunch.



    They managed 9th in the final, 3 tenths of a second behind the 8th. To the consternation of Simon who swore that he had overtaken the guy just before the last finish line.
    Not bad for a spur-of-the-moment race we had not planned nor prepared for.
    Here are our two "street warriors" after the race, which they had enjoyed immensely. We went to have dinner at a local restaurant afterwards.



    Great race format, such a street race. Big fun, next year we'll be back !!!

    Then on sunday came the big one, the Roc d'Azur itself, an 56km/35 mile XC race with a 1700m/5600 ft positive denivelation.
    Milton was less gung-ho compared to the marathon two days earlier. He had a bad starting number in this race, somewhere in the 300's. To undo that disadvantage in a short XC race with such a field of strong participants (world champions and all) seemed impossible to him so he decided to take it easy and enjoy himself.

    We had positioned ourself as spectators along the course at several points quite early into the race and saw him pass a few times around 80th place.



    Seriously eating dust on the singletracks.



    Almost at the end of the race, there was a brief passage on a beach where I wanted to get a picture of Milton pedalling where everyone was running. But he surprised me by passing much earlier in the field then anticipated, by the time I got my camera out & running, he was already gone. But we caught him on the final stretch to the finish, speeding alongside the road and we filming next to him out of the car. He already had complained after the marathon that the bike only had a 34-12 cassette - he needed a 11t sprocket !

    Here he crosses the line happy as a clam and still very fresh in 39th place, out of 3411 finishers, with an average speed of 20.4 km/h - 12.7 mph !!!



    His approach to this race was totally different, caused by his bad starting position and the XC race format which is not his favourite. This time he went at it almost relaxed, no stress, just wanting to enjoy the race. Not trying to follow everybody uphill and not screaming down, but going at his own pace and relaxing downhill. The good thing about "relaxin' downhill" on a Sandman is that you still overtake almost everybody else .
    By mid race he started to put power to the pedals and from there on never looked back, he overtook everybody in sight and nobdoy overtook him anymore on the uphills (and nobody ever did on any downhill).
    He had a smile wide as the finish line and said this race changed his outlook on mountainbike racing completely and he realised that with a Sandman you have to race differently compared to a classic mtb: relaxing downhill, thus saving energy for the uphills, carrying way more speed into the turns...
    He was much fresher then his fellow competitors afterwards, he changed clothes and we strolled for hours through the expo area afterwards enjoying looking at the newest gear and watching totally crazy dirt jump competitions (those guys are... nuts).



    He's looking into participating in the Ruta de los Conquistadores on a Sandman .

    A big thanks to Milton, Martin, Simon, Jef, Rudi, Luc and Jan. For their openness to the fat bike racing concept, for their results, for their showmanship and especially for their nice company during these race days !

    As for the gear we managed to break... one pinch flat by Simon in the enduro race and the bearings in the Hope headset of Martin's bike didn't seem to appreciate some of his incredible staircase jumps . For the rest zero mechanical problems.

    And I'd like to point out that all racing bikes were basically indentical: apart from Miltons's rear hub, the only differences in setup were personal preferences of the racers and consisted of no more then handlebars, seatposts and tires.
    By switching those few components the bikes competed succesfully in international XC, marathon, enduro, downhill and street races of a very high level.
    Simon and Jeff rode alu Gobi's. Martin rode one of the early ti prototypes with a more curved top tube and Milton had a new series Hoggar ti frame at his disposal. All decked out with prototypes of the wide German A forks.
    Rudi was commandeered into the impromptu street race on his old alu Atacama with a Maverick SC32 fork.

    Oh yeah, almost forgot: if you'd want to, you can also ride on snow with a Sandman But who would want to do just that, when so much fun is to be had all year long ?

    Me, I've lost my heart at that street race, next year I want to participate too . Wait until you see the video of this year, Martin is editing it now.

  2. #2
    will rant for food
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    Awesome! I laughed at the bit about "lesser tactics".

  3. #3
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    Great Pix and write up

    I bet there were ALOT of VERY unhappy XC racers who could not possibly believe that they had been overtaken by a Fat Bike

    Most Excellent !
    Life IS a Beach and then you Corrode :)

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    That's a helluva post, dude. Wow.
    And that Ti bike? Gimme dat.

  5. #5
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    Simply incredible, I'm starting to save now for one of those Ti frames.

    And those suspension forks better be available soon!
    I live in "bush" Alaska, in Galena on the Yukon River.

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    Can you buy one in the US?

  7. #7
    AJT
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    I'd like to but too, but can never get a e-mail response! seems like their having to much fun to sell bikes.
    Adventures off the beaten path
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    So when are sandman bikes going to available for order, i want one?

  9. #9
    Slow But Still Pedaling
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    I've been waiting to hear on the availability of the fork!

  10. #10
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    Quality...

    Am i loving this article.

    What a great way to test and showcase why Fatties r Funn.

    Thanks guys.
    Leave nothing but footprints & take nothing but photographs.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJT View Post
    I'd like to but too, but can never get a e-mail response! seems like their having to much fun to sell bikes.
    From what I hear it's all in the hands now of a software company that's developing their website and e-shop. All the frames are ready, all the parts too. It's just waiting for the arrival of the forks. So when the webshop goes online, the bikes should be available pretty instantly.




  12. #12
    M8 M12 M15 deez nuts
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    That’s freakin’ awesome! I would imagine the corners could have been taken even faster with running a Surly Nate 3.8 up front instead of the Larry 3.8—who knows, could have finished a few places up toward the front.
    Don’t frail and blow if you’re going to Braille and Flow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leopold Porkstacker View Post
    That’s freakin’ awesome! I would imagine the corners could have been taken even faster with running a Surly Nate 3.8 up front instead of the Larry 3.8—who knows, could have finished a few places up toward the front.
    Much faster in the corners, but Milton is a "weight weenie" and the mere mention that the Nate's are heavier then the Larry's was enough for him to decide for the Larry's. He repeatedly said that they offered enough grip for him.

    I was just pointed to a nice youtube video, taken during the marathon:

    Le roc d'azur Marathon 2011 "suite" - YouTube

    I love the commentary from the other racer, at a certain moment he gasps "putain, ça roule vite". Roughly translated "sh*t, that goes fast" .

    A pity you only see Milton on the uphills and flats, once going down he's out of sight after just a few curves (on the outisde ).

  14. #14
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    Personally, I prefer the Sandman song from Metallica - but this is nice too

    I hope you enjoy watching the video as much as we did making it:


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    Good vid...

    ..nice to see someone pushing at the end.
    Leave nothing but footprints & take nothing but photographs.

  16. #16
    R.I.P. Pugsley.
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    I just got back from a bike convention here in the Netherlands, and saw the Sandman bikes in real life.
    And i have to say the Hoggar and the Outback tandem look really great !!
    Also had a very nice conversation about this and that and gained a lot of extra info i did not ask for.
    Great bikes & nice people !

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    Great pics, stories, vids, warehouse spy shots etc :-) Looking forwards to getting myself an EBB Gobi in time for the winter snow here in Finland, then using it on trails in the summer too looking at these pics and vids!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by caminoloco View Post
    I was just pointed to a nice youtube video, taken during the marathon:

    Le roc d'azur Marathon 2011 "suite" - YouTube

    I love the commentary from the other racer, at a certain moment he gasps "putain, ça roule vite". Roughly translated "sh*t, that goes fast" .
    I am guessing that is at about the 3 minute mark. He really takes off on that downhill.

  19. #19
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    Milton took a Sandman to the Iron Biker in Brasil. He finished 2nd in the first stage on full fat tires.

    Iron Biker - click on the small picture for a better view.

    For the second stage they predicted much mud and easy terrain, much asfalt, so he switched to regular 26" mtb tires (having totally no spares, no Nate's or 29"er wheels with him). On the skinny tires (on 47mm rims) he managed an 8th place in that second stage. 4th overall and a hair off the podium.

    He said he should have stuck with the Larry's, slippin' & slidin' but in hindsight a pretty sure podium .

    But at least now we know that a Sandman works pretty well even on 26" wheels (despite the 29"er geometry). Nobody had been crazy enough to try that out. 8th in such a race isn't too bad after all...

  20. #20
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    Having fun (own rythm and shuttle uphill and chrono mostly downhill) at the Roc Enduro in France, enjoy:


  21. #21
    will rant for food
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    Cripes I want to learn to manual like that. (1:54)

  22. #22
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    great write up and pics, i seen the video last week and wondered if it would be on here too, great stuff
    2014 milage so far - 2,485
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    Milton Ramos participated on a Sandman (and not a Specialized like listed in some rankings) in the Ruta de los Conquistadores in Costa Rica. In the first stage he finished an astonishing 2nd, right after Todd Wells.
    In the subsequent stages he continued with two 7th places and an 11th spot, taking 6th overall.
    Ahead of a bunch of pro riders, who will probably never joke at fat bikes again . It was the first race he used a combination of 29"er and fat wheels, sometimes running both 29"ers, sometimes a fat front, sometimes both fat. With the 29"ers his ti Sandman Hoggar weighs less then 22 lbs.

    He was the only racer able to bike the railroad bridges, with nothing but "emptyness" between the wooden supports. Milton did admit to being pretty scared when some of those supports were missing and he had to roll over an extra big gap .

    Bici Aventura Cr's Photos | Facebook

    He was very happy with the bike, said it performed flawlessly and he explained the "lesser" rankings as the race progressed by a lack of proper training, quote "with this bike we're going to win races" !

  24. #24
    M8 M12 M15 deez nuts
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    Quote Originally Posted by caminoloco View Post
    Milton Ramos participated on a Sandman (and not a Specialized like listed in some rankings) in the Ruta de los Conquistadores in Costa Rica. In the first stage he finished an astonishing 2nd, right after Todd Wells.
    In the subsequent stages he continued with two 7th places and an 11th spot, taking 6th overall.
    Ahead of a bunch of pro riders, who will probably never joke at fat bikes again . It was the first race he used a combination of 29"er and fat wheels, sometimes running both 29"ers, sometimes a fat front, sometimes both fat. With the 29"ers his ti Sandman Hoggar weighs less then 22 lbs.

    He was the only racer able to bike the railroad bridges, with nothing but "emptyness" between the wooden supports. Milton did admit to being pretty scared when some of those supports were missing and he had to roll over an extra big gap .

    Bici Aventura Cr's Photos | Facebook

    He was very happy with the bike, said it performed flawlessly and he explained the "lesser" rankings as the race progressed by a lack of proper training, quote "with this bike we're going to win races" !
    Holy crap awesome fatbike street (or rather, RACE) cred for the win!!!



    Methinks they’ll eventually catch on afterall!
    Don’t frail and blow if you’re going to Braille and Flow.

  25. #25
    Just Ride!
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    Great job and an awesome write up! Love the bikes, too.

  26. #26
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    Elias participated today in the "longest beachrace in the world", a marathon of 135 k along the Dutch coastline from "de hoek van Holland tot Den Helder". It was his first beach race in 12 years. A drawback, because beach racing is not like mtb, it's more like a road race.

    500 or so participants, Elias finished 13nd, on a "standard" Gobi with wide riser handlebars, suspension fork, Hope M4 brakes... the only thing not standard were the Black Floyd tires.

    Places 9 to 13 were listed at all the same time, a sprint finish (without a photo). To give you an idea of the level of participants, listed in 11th place (same time) is Bart Brentjens... yes, THAT Bart Bart Brentjens - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - who won the race last year.

  27. #27
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    Caminoloco,

    When will the Hoggar be available for purchase ?

    Thanks

  28. #28
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    2012 means a whole new racing season for us and the Sandman bikes. We started offf quite nicely with a win at the Rovaniemi150, the very first long distance snow race in Europe. Basically that was just for fun, because our bikes are not snowbikes but trailbikes which by coïncidence happen to be able to ride on snow as well .

    Anyway, things got more serious at the Andalucia Bike Race in southern Spain, a 6-day team stage race. One of the guys on a Sandman finished 13th overall (out of more than 170 teams). But that doesn't really count because his teammate was on a normal bike...

    Things are very serious now with our marathon rider Milton Ramos currently racing the Titan Desert Bike race, a 6-day stage race in the desert and Atlas mountains of Morocco. Big race, 470 participants of a very high level. A pity the organisation rerouted the first stage because of a sandstorm the day before the first stage but anyway, Milton took the holeshot on his Sandman and exited the dune section with a decent headstart. Here's a nice helicopter picture of him:

    Milton Ramos, el rey de las dunas de Erg Chebbi - MILENIO TITAN DESERT - AS.com

    Afterwards the tracks became really fast and with a multiple Vuelta de España winner on his heels he took some risks while oriënteering and had to double back for a missed checkpoint. Bummer, but he still finished in 3rd place.

    The second stage saw him finishing 7th and today he finished 4th, only a handful of seconds behind the winners.
    Apparenty the going was very fast on mostly flat dirtroads and it was more of a road race than a mtb race today. They reached speeds of 45 km/h chasing each other... He's fourth overall so far. Way to go Milton, you make us fat bike lovers proud

    MILENIO TITAN DESERT by GAES -

    While Milton is getting weird looks from fellow competitors in the desert, we'll be getting weird looks in the mountains next weekend, in the French Alps: MéTaBief Open Enduro

    This is an "enduro" race: uphill at your own pace or even better, with a ski lift . Then the timed race stretches, mostly downhill. Racers start individually or, depending on which category, with a few friends for some mayor fun.
    We'll be starting in both categories and will check out the night ride (not a race) as well, yooohooo .

  29. #29
    Sup
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    nice pic's
    if only I didn't get Metallica stuck in my head everytime I read one of your threads

    Sj
    I am slow therefore I am

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    Quote Originally Posted by SlowerJoe View Post
    nice pic's
    if only I didn't get Metallica stuck in my head everytime I read one of your threads
    Sj
    Nothing wrong with that . As for pictures, two of us will be going for a result in Metabief, starting one by one. The race format is not a mass start, but one by one with an interval in between.
    But the other 3 will start together, there's a special category for that, called "Cool Raoul" . And we'l be sticking our bikes full of Gopro camera's back and forth to film each other while running together. If we bring back some decent footage we'll see if we can somehow pair that with Metallica .

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    Milton finished today 3rd on his Sandman in the fourth stage of the Titan Desert, more than 2000 positive denivelation today - again mostly fast dirtroads. He solidly reclaimed 3rd spot in the overall standings.
    Two stages to go, fingers crossed...

    Here's another article:

    Titan desert, el Tour de la arena

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    Shitty weather, lots of rain, heaps of mud... not ideal for a fatbike.
    Still, 40th and 41st, being totally new to the trails and in a field of nearly 500 blingbling enduro fullies and plenty of factory teams - only a few hardtails around. Not too bad , hoping for dry conditions in next race which should move us up quite a few places. Video to follow.








  34. #34
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    mmmm flames on all those test rides, hope they get some valuable feedback.

  35. #35
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    Re: the YouTube video

    Is it just me or does Milton look like he is more stable and smoother than the other riders? At times he just hunkers down and cranks away as though it were the Tour de France and not a dirt fire road. (Fewer deceleration moments acting on the tires?)

    Very impressive.

    Kudos to Sandman for being ahead of the curve in bike design, for fielding such a great team and for their great results.

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    The advantages of leading in a major race, heli images . Enjoy !








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    Fantastic heli shots..

    DJ

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    Frikkin-A awesome helicopter shots!!!
    Don’t frail and blow if you’re going to Braille and Flow.

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    Enjoy the video, we did making it



    Let's hope for dry conditions next time !

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    Quote Originally Posted by caminoloco View Post
    Enjoy the video, we did making it



    Let's hope for dry conditions next time !
    thanks for the vid.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by caminoloco View Post
    Enjoy the video, we did making it



    Let's hope for dry conditions next time !
    That was a great vid.. Thanks.

    DJ

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    If Sandman could answer questions on the frame geometry or update their website to provide more detail that would be awesome, sending emails seems to get no response.

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    More photos

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    Quote Originally Posted by xhailofgunfirex View Post
    If Sandman could answer questions on the frame geometry or update their website to provide more detail that would be awesome, sending emails seems to get no response.
    ^^^This!

    I also sent a few emails and didn't get any feedback so I got another frame. Caminoloco seems to post here often, so why not just answer these simple questions and keep people happy???

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by rasse1977 View Post
    ^^^This!

    I also sent a few emails and didn't get any feedback so I got another frame. Caminoloco seems to post here often, so why not just answer these simple questions and keep people happy???
    I just checked the website and don't get the problem... everything is there to nail one's frame size.
    The Coca Cola recipe isn't there, but only copycats want to figure that one out.

    Just the figures only tell part of the story, these bikes were designed from the ground up around front suspension and triple chainrings. Not as snowbikes, but as XC/AM/enduro bikes. And they happen to be decent snow bikes if the opportunity should present itself.

    If you take a bare Sandman frame and finish it to Moonlander specs you get something that resembles a Moonlander, with less weight and probably somewhat different handling characteristics (better or worse, I don't know - never had the opportunity to ride one).

    If you'd take a Moonlander frame and spec it as a Sandman Hoggar, you'd probably get a more nimble Moonlander, with the risk of denting the frame through the wide crown of the sus fork and probably not as capable of absorbing very heavy punishment due to the assymetrical build. How the handling would be, anybodies' guess.

    To each his/her own, for many people a Moonlander build is perfect for thier intended use, others will want more of a Sandman. You buy a Moonlander package for what it is and for what it's made for, likewise with a Hoggar.

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    Perhaps if you look at other bike manufacturers websites then you would get it. Pretty much every bike company lists details such as, head angle, chainstay length, wheelbase, bottom bracket height, standover etc. You are limiting your consumer base, how is a consumer supposed to make an educated decision? People want to be able to compare frame details to the other bikes in the segment, or to bikes they already are familiar with. Its funny because you have a geometry figure with all those details called out but you don't list what those values are in your table, what's the point in having those on the figure?

    Personally the sandman frame is what I want to do with a fatbike, but the secretiveness of such details is a big turnoff, I can't demo the bike where I am, and im not dumping cash on something I can't be sure will work for me because the details I need to make a decision are coca cola trade secrets.

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    Okay, i LOVE these bikes... BUT

    In your spec list it says the rear end of the Hoggar is 165mm??? I guess this means I would not be able to use my Hope 170mm awesome rear hub in this frame???

    Please say it will work!!! Bit of a deal breaker otherwise...

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by xhailofgunfirex View Post
    Perhaps if you look at other bike manufacturers websites then you would get it. Pretty much every bike company lists details such as, head angle, chainstay length, wheelbase, bottom bracket height, standover etc. You are limiting your consumer base, how is a consumer supposed to make an educated decision? People want to be able to compare frame details to the other bikes in the segment, or to bikes they already are familiar with. Its funny because you have a geometry figure with all those details called out but you don't list what those values are in your table, what's the point in having those on the figure?

    Personally the sandman frame is what I want to do with a fatbike, but the secretiveness of such details is a big turnoff, I can't demo the bike where I am, and im not dumping cash on something I can't be sure will work for me because the details I need to make a decision are coca cola trade secrets.
    I hear you. I think the decision not to publish the "recipe" was made because of bad experiences with copycats - Sandman were the first doing their homework on the fatbike-for-mountain-use concept and were astonished when they saw parts they sponsored to racers appear on competitors prototype "all terrain" fatbikes...

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by xhailofgunfirex View Post
    Personally the sandman frame is what I want to do with a fatbike, but the secretiveness of such details is a big turnoff, I can't demo the bike where I am, and im not dumping cash on something I can't be sure will work for me because the details I need to make a decision are coca cola trade secrets.
    xhailofgunfirex said it better than me, all the missing info is a big turnoff...

    Quote Originally Posted by caminoloco View Post
    I hear you. I think the decision not to publish the "recipe" was made because of bad experiences with copycats - Sandman were the first doing their homework on the fatbike-for-mountain-use concept and were astonished when they saw parts they sponsored to racers appear on competitors prototype "all terrain" fatbikes...
    People have been using Pugs and other brands of fatbikes for mountain use for years with Maverich, DUC and Lefty forks with great success.

    I can buy the 907 frame for 635 Euro (or 425 Euro if I go for the 2011 model on sale), the Pugsley for 515 Euro and the Sandman Atacama for 860 Euro. The big question for me is why I should choose a Sandman frame over the others Don't get me wrong, I think the Sandman bikes are nice and I enjoy your trip reports and pics. I just need a reason to spend the extra money.

    Some more specific questions:

    - if I buy a rigid fork and want to upgrade to the Flame do I then need a new wheel/hub?
    - 165 mm rear hub? Can I use a 170 mm hub instead? Which 165 mm hubs are available?
    - What A-C is the frame designed for? What happens to the geo if I want to switch between eg. the Carver carbon fork (465 mm) and the Flame?
    - geo numbers

    Thanks for your feedback.
    Last edited by rasse1977; 05-31-2012 at 10:10 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rasse1977 View Post
    xhailofgunfirex said it better than me, all the missing info is a big turnoff...



    People have been using Pugs and other brands of fatbikes for mountain use for years with Maverich, DUC and Lefty forks with great success.

    I can buy the 907 frame for 635 Euro (or 425 Euro if I go for the 2011 model on sale), the Pugsley for 515 Euro and the Sandman Atacama for 711 Euro. The big question for me is why I should choose a Sandman frame over the others Don't get me wrong, I think the Sandman bikes are nice and I enjoy your trip reports and pics. I just need a reason to spend the extra money.

    Some more specific questions:

    - if I buy a rigid fork and want to upgrade to the Flame do I then need a new wheel/hub?
    - 165 mm rear hub? Can I use a 170 mm hub instead? Which 165 mm hubs are available?
    - What A-C is the frame designed for? What happens to the geo if I want to switch between eg. the Carver carbon fork (465 mm) and the Flame?
    - geo numbers

    Thanks for your feedback.
    Take another look at the video's, pictures and results here on this thread, do you think you can do that with a Pugs ?

    As for the Atacama frame price: the frame is handmade and hand painted in Belgium. The other frames you mention are mass produced in Taiwan or China. In fact, the Atacama frame is cheap - or the other ones expensive, depends on how you look at it.

    165mm rear hub: the Sandman bikes were designed long before the advent of the 170mm hubs. In fact, they see no reason to change (a BFL on a 100mm fits). The adapted XT hubs are bombproof and available and prototypes of a light through-axle 165mm hub are stretching their legs on a few of the racers bikes (including mine :-)). Lighter, stiffer & a lot cheaper than the currently available 170mm hubs (including the Hope). Very easy to service too, not as easy as a DT, but close.

    As for switching between the German A wide forks and a rigid one, plenty of 20mm front hubs that offer QR adapter parts so you don't have to change the entire hub when changing forks.
    As for rigid fork length vs the sus and upsetting the geometry: I don't know the Sandman rigid fork number by hart but I think they're around the number you give for the Carver. The geometry of all 3 Sandman bikes is identical, only the frame material and form changes. So plopping a German A in an (otherwise rigid) Atacama won't upset the geometry. You'd want to install a steering travel limiter though, the wide crown will hit the lower tube if turned too far sideways. The Gobi and Hoggar frames are bent in that spot for that reason, to offer safe passage for the wide crown.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by caminoloco View Post

    165mm rear hub: the Sandman bikes were designed long before the advent of the 170mm hubs. In fact, they see no reason to change (a BFL on a 100mm fits). The adapted XT hubs are bombproof and available and prototypes of a light through-axle 165mm hub are stretching their legs on a few of the racers bikes (including mine :-)). Lighter, stiffer & a lot cheaper than the currently available 170mm hubs (including the Hope). Very easy to service too, not as easy as a DT, but close.
    I guess what I was trying to say, as someone who sells high end bicycles for a living, is that I'm not a fan of not having a choice... Maybe I am just a snob, but if I build something based on a beautiful Ti frame with some high quality parts, I don't want Shimano on it... And there ARE more 170mm hub choices becoming available...

    Just saying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by caminoloco View Post
    Take another look at the video's, pictures and results here on this thread, do you think you can do that with a Pugs ?

    As for the Atacama frame price: the frame is handmade and hand painted in Belgium. The other frames you mention are mass produced in Taiwan or China. In fact, the Atacama frame is cheap - or the other ones expensive, depends on how you look at it.

    165mm rear hub: the Sandman bikes were designed long before the advent of the 170mm hubs. In fact, they see no reason to change (a BFL on a 100mm fits). The adapted XT hubs are bombproof and available and prototypes of a light through-axle 165mm hub are stretching their legs on a few of the racers bikes (including mine :-)). Lighter, stiffer & a lot cheaper than the currently available 170mm hubs (including the Hope). Very easy to service too, not as easy as a DT, but close.
    To answer your first question I believe that a skilled rider can ride almost any bike over any terrain and make it look cool. Why should an Atacama with a rigid steel fork or a Flame ride better than a Pugs with a steel fork or a Lefty... I guess Milton was crazy fast long before he got his Sandman...???

    Where the frame is made makes no difference to me as I don't live anywhere near the places you mention. But I guess you're right, it costs a little more to have things made locally and some people are willing to pay for it. But to me living in another country it just dosn't add any value to the frame.

    The 165 mm rear is definately something I'd consider seeing that everyone else is moving towards 135 and 170 mm rear hubs...

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macbeth View Post
    I guess what I was trying to say, as someone who sells high end bicycles for a living, is that I'm not a fan of not having a choice... Maybe I am just a snob, but if I build something based on a beautiful Ti frame with some high quality parts, I don't want Shimano on it... And there ARE more 170mm hub choices becoming available...

    Just saying.
    There are a few other brands which have a 165mm in the pipeline. But I'll tell Sandman to brand their new light hub as top end and price it accordingly - after all, it's lower in weight and with the thru axle stiffer than any current 170mm .

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    Hey guys & girls, I just heard through the grapevine that Sandman is going to sponsor two entries in the British Columbia Bike Race: you just have to get in Vancouver on your own, all the rest will be paid for (use of a race ti Sandman, race registration and meal plan).

    To apply with your racing and relevant CV: pm me and I'll patch you through.

    No need to get nervous , but you'll be expected to do at least better than Elias did two years ago on one of the Sandman prototypes (with SC32 forks and lowly XT rear hub ): 16th overall.

    The bike is competitive, are you ?

    I"ll post the link on the website when it's up, spread the word .

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by caminoloco View Post
    Hey guys & girls, I just heard through the grapevine that Sandman is going to sponsor two entries in the British Columbia Bike Race: you just have to get in Vancouver on your own, all the rest will be paid for (use of a race ti Sandman, race registration and meal plan).

    To apply with your racing and relevant CV: pm me and I'll patch you through.

    No need to get nervous , but you'll be expected to do at least better than Elias did two years ago on one of the Sandman prototypes (with SC32 forks and lowly XT rear hub ): 16th overall.

    The bike is competitive, are you ?

    I"ll post the link on the website when it's up, spread the word .
    Damn that’d be awesome. Hard to justify leaving the wife and kids at home though. I’m a top 1/3 ranking Cat2 XC rider normally. Seriously, the chance to race a Sandman setup like that would kick immeasurable ass! Whoever does end up doing this, be sure to take some ContourHD or GoPro footage!
    Don’t frail and blow if you’re going to Braille and Flow.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macbeth View Post
    Okay, i LOVE these bikes... BUT

    In your spec list it says the rear end of the Hoggar is 165mm??? I guess this means I would not be able to use my Hope 170mm awesome rear hub in this frame???

    Please say it will work!!! Bit of a deal breaker otherwise...
    No idea if it'll work. I supppose a few mm left and right won't be too much to overcome, especially on a ti or steel frame. Someone will have to try that out !

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    Quote Originally Posted by rasse1977 View Post
    xhailofgunfirex said it better than me, all the missing info is a big turnoff...



    People have been using Pugs and other brands of fatbikes for mountain use for years with Maverich, DUC and Lefty forks with great success.

    I can buy the 907 frame for 635 Euro (or 425 Euro if I go for the 2011 model on sale), the Pugsley for 515 Euro and the Sandman Atacama for 860 Euro. The big question for me is why I should choose a Sandman frame over the others Don't get me wrong, I think the Sandman bikes are nice and I enjoy your trip reports and pics. I just need a reason to spend the extra money.

    Some more specific questions:

    - if I buy a rigid fork and want to upgrade to the Flame do I then need a new wheel/hub?
    - 165 mm rear hub? Can I use a 170 mm hub instead? Which 165 mm hubs are available?
    - What A-C is the frame designed for? What happens to the geo if I want to switch between eg. the Carver carbon fork (465 mm) and the Flame?
    - geo numbers

    Thanks for your feedback.
    In a magazine from Spain named Bike 232 //08 //2011 is a review or a premiere for a Sandman Gobi ...go for it.
    Distance between hubs 1122 mm distance between BB to the floor 300 mm length of chainstays 450 mm length seat tube 460 mm length horizontal tube (virtual) 595 mm, head angle 68,5º and seat angle 71º
    This is the information in the magazine i hope usefull for all of you.

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    A quick question to the powers-that-be on this forum: a post and a reply on this topic were apparently deleted. The contents were that I heard a fat bike brand is going to offer a few racing entries in a major and very expensive race to interested forum readers/racers. Pretty relevant on this particular thread.

    I don't see what I might have done wrong posting that...

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by caminoloco View Post
    No idea if it'll work. I supppose a few mm left and right won't be too much to overcome, especially on a ti or steel frame. Someone will have to try that out !
    I've put 165's into a Muklulk with no issues, and 167.5's into a ti and an alu Fatback again with no issues. 170 into a ti or steel frame would not bother me at all and only a little bit in an aluminum.
    Latitude 61

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by circu View Post
    In a magazine from Spain named Bike 232 //08 //2011 is a review or a premiere for a Sandman Gobi ...go for it.
    Distance between hubs 1122 mm distance between BB to the floor 300 mm length of chainstays 450 mm length seat tube 460 mm length horizontal tube (virtual) 595 mm, head angle 68,5º and seat angle 71º
    This is the information in the magazine i hope usefull for all of you.
    Thanks Circu, So for the Gobi at least the numbers fit right into the normal fatbike mix as far as I can tell. Head tube and seat tube angles a tiny bit shallower but sure doesn't seem like the handling would be radically different from any of the "traditional" offerings. Maybe on one end of the range but I'm not sure I could predict which end
    Latitude 61

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    Awesome!!! Thanks for the write up and pictures, this only feeds the fire on me wanting a Fatbike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sryanak View Post
    Thanks Circu, So for the Gobi at least the numbers fit right into the normal fatbike mix as far as I can tell. Head tube and seat tube angles a tiny bit shallower but sure doesn't seem like the handling would be radically different from any of the "traditional" offerings. Maybe on one end of the range but I'm not sure I could predict which end
    I think it's very different ...that head angle (68.5º in Sandman ) is more confident for the descent than 70.5º( for example moonlander) and tube angle is no bad for climbing.
    I have a Mongoose Teocali with a head angle 68º and when the trail goes down is very confident for me

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    Last weekend Martin participated in a "Enduro" race in the French Pyrenees. 6th on the first day, 10th overall after two days. Not bad for a hardtail (the trails of the second day were more DH then enduro) .

    Here are some pictures: Facebook

    Next race: the Maxiavalanche in Andorra and then off to Canada and the British Columbia Bike Race !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macbeth View Post
    I guess what I was trying to say, as someone who sells high end bicycles for a living, is that I'm not a fan of not having a choice... Maybe I am just a snob, but if I build something based on a beautiful Ti frame with some high quality parts, I don't want Shimano on it... And there ARE more 170mm hub choices becoming available...

    Just saying.
    Just saying, you are a snob if you don't like Dura-Ace or XTR. Glad you can admit it.
    Last edited by chubbyone; 06-25-2012 at 11:48 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by caminoloco View Post
    Last weekend Martin participated in a "Enduro" race in the French Pyrenees. 6th on the first day, 10th overall after two days. Not bad for a hardtail (the trails of the second day were more DH then enduro) .



    Next race: the Maxiavalanche in Andorra and then off to Canada and the British Columbia Bike Race !
    more pics and a video would be

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    Quote Originally Posted by circu View Post
    more pics and a video would be
    Maybe, but I doubt Martin has the time for it . I just heard from him in Andorra: during his qualifying run he first had a small crash, then a puncture and then (still in the first 5 minutes of the run) he lost his chain. He then had to coast down and run the uphill parts

    Somehow he still finished 62nd of his "batch" of 100 qualifiers, around 900 participants in total. But that relegated him to the amateur class and way in the back of his batch.
    This morning, on his first chronoed run he overtook the whole bunch to finish second - despite a 20 mph crash going uphill (his baggy pants caught on the Joplin seatpost handlebar control when sprinting out of the sadlle ).

    Just one of those days .

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    Baggy are cool but for race ....lycra.My best wishes for Canada

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    Quote Originally Posted by circu View Post
    Baggy are cool but for race ....lycra.My best wishes for Canada
    Thanks for the good-luck wishes. He could use some luck, on his final Andorran run he flatted 2 times (first a snakebite, the other one because he underinflated the same tire in the race-hurry).
    Then he was out of spare tires and by the time he walked all the way down, they were breaking up the event .

    But it bodes well for the other Maxiavalanche events, his one run without mechanicals would have landed him around 70th place (out of 900 fullies competing, he only saw one other hardtail). And this one was with hardly any uphill stretches.

    Anyhow, let's see what happens in the BCBR next week. He and Adrien will have a hard time beating Elias's 16th place two years ago, on one of the Sandman prototypes.

    This weekend, Milton will be putting power to the pedals in this ultra marathon, 220 km/6200 m+ (137 miles/20.000 ft+) non stop bike race: Home | nonstop

    I heard that for this occasion he tweaked his Sandman into a -10 kg/22 lbs 29" race monster, front suspension, pedals & all... can't wait to see those pictures

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by caminoloco View Post

    This weekend, Milton will be putting power to the pedals in this ultra marathon, 220 km/6200 m+ (137 miles/20.000 ft+) non stop bike race: Home | nonstop

    I heard that for this occasion he tweaked his Sandman into a -10 kg/22 lbs 29" race monster, front suspension, pedals & all... can't wait to see those pictures
    A fatbike (temporarily) turned into a sub 10kg marathon machine


  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by caminoloco View Post
    A fatbike (temporarily) turned into a sub 10kg marathon machine

    Milton did pretty well on his Sandman disguised as a marathon bike, nothing less than a shared first place rolling over the finish with another competitor

    Photos of Pedals de Foc | Facebook

    He's pestering Sandman to participate in the Colorado Trail race next august (on fat tires). Do you think the forest fires in Colorado (which have been all over the news here) will be a serious problem ? It'd be a bummer to fly all the way over and see the race annuled because of fires along the way. Does the trail lead through much fire-prone terrain ?

    The guys in the BCBR are having a harder time, newbie Adrien finished 42nd in the first stage (not too bad considering he is new there and hadn't ridden a fatbike nor a Sandman before getting off the plane in Vancouver: he jumped in last-minute for me).
    Martin was following another racer and at a certain point realised they weren't on the right track... turned back and lost half an hour. Still finished somewhere around 80th position, and pretty p*ssed...

  71. #71
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    The guys in the BCBR are coming up to speed, Adrien finished 28th in the second stage yesterday and Martin got over the line in 48th position despite the stage being a mudfest and not having Nate's at hand.
    It could have been 44th spot for Martin but something happened just before the finish line . I don't know how to paste a direct link to a Facebook movie clip so you have to go see for yourself on Sandman's facebook if you're interested.
    It's the second clip on the left, titled "3 juli 2012", not really bright to relax in a race but that's just the way Martin is

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    Stage 3 saw Adrien finishing on a 23rd spot, inching closer to top20 finishes. He's probably getting used to his bike , a totally stock Hoggar.

    I guess Martin paid more attention at the finish this time , he took 41st.

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    Goooo for it

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    Cervinia is a ski resort at the Italian side of the famed Matterhorn (= Cervino in Italian). It sits at 2000m altitude in a narrow valley, which opens up to where the skislopes are.

    In summer part of the lifts keep on working to cater for skiers (summer ski on a gletsjer), mountaineers (the Matterhorn and a whole range of other peaks) and... bikers. And that's why one of the Maxiavalanche races are held there.

    The qualifying runs were almost 100% downhill runs starting at around 3000 m altitude. The first run of the big race on sunday was planned from all the way up on the glacier 500 m higher up, before the sun softened the snow. You can see the start/peak on this picture, the white one on the right and in the back.



    Just before the race we had gotten a few kevlar bead versions of the Nate and Husker Du tires. Together with the Devist8or tires it made for a wider tire choice.



    But it rained a lot and the program was pretty packed, so we decided to just go with the standard Nate's and not risk anything. A more in-depth test review will come at the end of the Megavalanche race (end of next week).
    So we just made sure the bikes were set up ok and off we went for some training runs.



    The training runs all went well, on both descents. There was an "A" run from all the way up the glacier and a "plan B" from below the glacier and more to the left of the valley. Our favourite was the A run, the B being more of a pure DH course and thus best suited for pure DH rigs and not our measly hardtails. We were running the only hardtails in the field...

    Don't scroll down yet , keep on reading !!

    Simon did incredibly well, qualifying 10 th (!) on the A course without the glacier. Mark flatted at the start of his qualifier and took the lift back down, relegating him to the B final.
    Meanwhile, being parked next to one of the races' sponsors - a brand of energy drinks - did have its advantages, their poster girl trying out the bikes .



    Unfortunately it poured rain all night (and fresh snow higher up) so the actual race was to be held on the "B" course... bummer. On top of that: no glacier, which would have been a huge advantage for us.
    During both races, fortunes were reversed and Simon flatted during the Eurocup, but still managed 28th - running the last km.



    The tire and tube came off before he managed to stop and tore off the derailleur, somehow broke the chain and completely blocked the wheel. We had to cut off the tube, it was so stretched that we couldn't lift the valve off the rim (which had part of the sidewall grinded off by Simon running to the finish). A pretty (expensive) mess...



    Mark had a clean run this time, here he's gassing it to 2nd place overall in his finale.



    Which landed him first place in his (masters +30) category, here he is (and our poster girl) again on the podium.



    Mark being happy as a clam with his result (he quit XC racing 10 years ago and this was his first competition since and on top of that first time on a Sandman). The Matterhorn provides a fitting background, congratulations .



    Mark being with us was the result of a new test bike program: Sandman is providing free test bikes for a whole range of biking experiences. They've for instance rented a big chalet in Alpe d'Huez next week during the Megavalanche bike week/races.
    They invite people to join them there while racing a Sandman (see their Facebook page), between 6 and 8 Hoggar bikes are available for racing.
    So if you want to see if you can grab a podium like Mark did out of the blue: the bikes are up to it. Are you ?

    PS no need to be a "real" racer, coming along for some serious biking and an overall fun week in good company is basically all what it is about.
    Last edited by caminoloco; 07-11-2012 at 01:04 PM.

  75. #75
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    Wow! Some great photos but especially the one with the Full-Size girl on the fat bike. That should be a poster. Talk about a symbiotic relationship. Outsized components work in marketing as well as on the trail. (Speaking of marketing, the Full-Size ad on youtube is pretty funny.)

    I also really like the photo of Mark with the Matterhorn in the background. Stellar!

    It seems like Sandman has had quite a few issues with flat tires in this and in previous races. Any thought of racing tubeless? What would be the disadvantage(s)? Would a sturdier tube help, like the Michelin Airstop 3.00x21" motorcycle inner tube that coastkid uses?

    Your bikes and your racing results are really impressing me. I wasn't seriously considering purchasing one of your bikes before but I am now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saw View Post
    Wow! Some great photos but especially the one with the Full-Size girl on the fat bike. That should be a poster. Talk about a symbiotic relationship. Outsized components work in marketing as well as on the trail. (Speaking of marketing, the Full-Size ad on youtube is pretty funny.)

    I also really like the photo of Mark with the Matterhorn in the background. Stellar!

    It seems like Sandman has had quite a few issues with flat tires in this and in previous races. Any thought of racing tubeless? What would be the disadvantage(s)? Would a sturdier tube help, like the Michelin Airstop 3.00x21" motorcycle inner tube that coastkid uses?

    Your bikes and your racing results are really impressing me. I wasn't seriously considering purchasing one of your bikes before but I am now.
    The Full Size gal was signing her own posters already, no need for us to make a second one .

    The flats we suffer are all pretty massive snakebites... the real problem is that the bikes allow such different lines. Which is really helpful when overtaking all those slow fullies . But the issue is that the fastest line isn't the cleanest... but in a race, if you see an opportunity, you know you and the bike can do it... you go for it !

    But sometimes you just don't see it coming. In the Eurocup finals in Cervinia Simon was running around 15th spot on the last singletrack sections, patiently waiting behind 2-3 guys which he knew he could easily outsprint with their bouncy freeride rigs .
    Then he hit something which intantly flatted his rear wheel, he never knew what.

    Marc flatted on his qualifier because he's really gung-ho and had drawn a number which had put him all the way in the back of the field. Which put a red veil in front of his race-tunnel-vision-mode . After maybe a mile he had barged past almost everybody and had Simon in his sights (which ended up qualifying in 10th spot).
    Then he hit something which was "hidden" like 3 yards from the normal line everyone was following, flatted and walked back up to the lifts .

    In his finale he did the same, but inflated his tires up to 17 psi (!), which is Simon's normal race pressure...

    We've got the new ligther casing Nate and Husker Du tires and we'll be testing them on the Megavalanche next week. I've got everything with me to (try to) set one wheelset up tubeless.
    But that's no guarantee, last year we snakebit a tube AND the Larry covering it on the Mega course - had to toss both in the garbage... Again, the bikes allow such different lines & speeds that these things are pretty inevitable for the moment.
    If we snakebite a tubeless Nate we'll try to tubeless the Devist8er - now that's a burly tire which has very nice riding properties, probably through its thick sidewalls, which act a bit like a damper. The compound is better than the Innova/Surly tires too. But it seems that Innova has changed its compound on the new lighter kevlar bead Nate & HD tires (very soft to the touch). To be checked next week.

    A pity it's so heavy, but you probably can't have both.

    Quote Originally Posted by circu View Post
    In a magazine from Spain named Bike 232 //08 //2011 is a review or a premiere for a Sandman Gobi ...go for it.
    Distance between hubs 1122 mm distance between BB to the floor 300 mm length of chainstays 450 mm length seat tube 460 mm length horizontal tube (virtual) 595 mm, head angle 68,5º and seat angle 71º
    This is the information in the magazine i hope usefull for all of you.
    I had the chance to go over the ° and mm's of all Sandman sizes and the above numbers don't add up. At all. The only measurement they nailed is the chainstay length, the others are (sometimes seriously) off.

    There've been other magazine tests & figures, but they couldn't measure correctly because of all the different sizes and widths on the frame (and they admitted that). Seems that BIKE just made a guess ?

    For those looking for a full size poster, I could ask Mark to autograph one : ?


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    I've worked out the source of the punctures.

    Don't take Full-size girl pillion - have you looked at her heels?

    (Yeah, drop your eyes a bit lower )
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    I've worked out the source of the punctures.

    Don't take Full-size girl pillion - have you looked at her heels?

    (Yeah, drop your eyes a bit lower )
    I just [I]knew[I] someone was going to say that .

    Meanwhile Milton finished a pretty astonishing 6th in the Salzkammergut - an Austrian monster marathon with 3500 participants. He went for the long distance on his Sandman: 211 km and 7049 positive denivelation (!).

    Next week he'll be participating in the Ironbike in Italy, together with Elias (no team, both solo, both with 29er wheels - maybe some stages with the fat wheels, they'll take it day-to-day).

    And we're off to the Megavalanche, let's see if we can avoid those heels & punctures .

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    I've worked out the source of the punctures.

    Don't take Full-size girl pillion - have you looked at her heels?

    (Yeah, drop your eyes a bit lower )

    I think you might be on to something there. Perhaps, as a precaution, only let her ride the bike after the race.


    @caminoloco
    Thank you for filling in some of the details on the racing. I was wondering how you guys have managed to go from the back of the pack to finishing at or near the front. Specifically, where did you find room to pass? Answer: you make it. I wonder what the other racers are thinking when that happens and whether the other factory teams might be getting pressure from their riders to go fat or at least fatter than 2.35.

    I keep going back to that picture of Mark and the Matterhorn. It looks like he is standing in front of the engine of a motorcycle. Seriously cool shot...and what a great way to demo your bikes by loaning them out at races.

    Milton is amazing. I didn't see any pictures of him on the Salzkammergut web site. Was he racing fat or 29"? Can't wait to see how he does at Ironbike.

    Good luck at Megavalanche!
    Last edited by Saw; 07-19-2012 at 10:01 AM.

  80. #80
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    I’ve got to ask you (caminoloco) one question on the Nates you guys are running: I notice you have both the rear and front run in the reverse direction… yet you guys have amassed probably a thousand (or more!!!) racing miles on your rigs. Please do tell— is the cornering speed/traction/washout/braking/etc. really that much better with the front direction reversed?

    Thanks! Race on!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saw View Post
    I think you might be on to something there. Perhaps, as a precaution, only let her ride the bike after the race.


    @caminoloco
    Thank you for filling in some of the details on the racing. I was wondering how you guys have managed to go from the back of the pack to finishing at or near the front. Specifically, where did you find room to pass? Answer: you make it. I wonder what the other racers are thinking when that happens and whether the other factory teams might be getting pressure from their riders to go fat or at least fatter than 2.35.

    I keep going back to that picture of Mark and the Matterhorn. It looks like he is standing in front of the engine of a motorcycle. Seriously cool shot...and what a great way to demo your bikes by loaning them out at races.

    Milton is amazing. I didn't see any pictures of him on the Salzkammergut web site. Was he racing fat or 29"? Can't wait to see how he does at Ironbike.

    Good luck at Megavalanche!
    Milton was running 29ers in the Salzkammergut, there are several websites with pictures of the race - like this one: Sportograf 2012
    His startnr was A7.
    He went straight from Austria to the Ironbike in Italy, where he won the prologue and 3rd stage. He's second overall for the moment, on 29ers. Go Milton, go .

    Meanwhile, we were having fun at the Megavalanche (change trail, not bike ). The format:
    more than 2000 bikers doing enduro descents (with parts uphill) down from 3300 m to 700 m. To seperate the chaff from the corn qualifier runs were held on a somewhat shorter course, roughly half of the Mega. In waves of 200, bikers are let go and the first 35 of each wave get a ticket for the big one.

    We did astonishingly well in the qualifiers: Simon rolled over the line 2 minutes behind later overall winner Julien Absolon in 5th position (yes, on a hardtail ).
    Mark en Martin had starting spots more to the back of their respective waves and each qualified easily, both on 15th spots of their wave.

    The Mega itself was a bit of a letdown, despite being the only 3 hardtails in the whole field of 350 qualifiers. Simon was even on the 2nd row, having missed the presentation the night before of the top30 bikers the night before by a hair (all pro's or semi-pro's on really, really tricked out fullies).
    Simon flatted after the glacier when he was somewhere around 20th spot, spent 10 minutes inflating his tire with a faulty pump but somehow still managed to put in a time under the hour. He's convinced a sub-50' run is possible on a Sandman, which would be a top 50 spot. That's his goal for next year.

    Mark got wiped out in a mass pile-up on the glacier, skidded 50 meters on the ice downslope on his butt before hitting a rocky patch... he took it easy afterwards .

    Martin noticed after taking the lift up that his rear brake had somehow taken in air. After pumping the lever several times, braking power returned but went away again pretty quickly. On the glacier that was no problem (having to brake most of the time), but on the rocky sections down below... so what had to happen, did happen: he was running like a spear in the top 20, forgot about the brake problem, pinched air, had to overcompensate with the front brake and took a high speed crash that would have sent most to hospital. He hurt his left quadriceps real bad but out of pure stubborness continued all the way down - and then went to hospital . He'll be out for the Maxiavalache of Orcières.

    But he has some awesome video footage from his qualifying run, where you'll see for yourself where & when there's room to pass a whole bunch of fulles (different lines in fast turns, powering past them on the uphills and really sticking the bikes into the bermed turns - fullies lose a lot of energy/speed there). Passing people was never a problem on our bikes, pinch flats continue to be so. Basically the only terrain where we had to give the big fullies some room was on the really, really rough DH parts and on fast, subsequent jumps.

    To do list: develop a decent tubeless system which can be incorporated in current and new bikes. Apart from pinch flats our Hoggar's are doing awesome, getting a lot of admiring looks. We'll be getting the new 2013 alu "economy" racing hardtail prototypes in september. The geometry being the same (never change a winning team ), I'm curious to see how the new suspension forks will work.

    "Weird" moment of the week: being offered a bucket by Dan Atherton while waiting behind him in line to clean my bike (with only a brush) .

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    Sorry for injuries ...a faster healing....
    A bunch of photos will be apreciate

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    Quote Originally Posted by circu View Post
    Sorry for injuries ...a faster healing....
    A bunch of photos will be apreciate
    Will do, need time to sort them out and find pics from the "offical" photographers.

    Btw, it was Remy Absolon that won, not Julien - who's busy training for the Olympics I guess...

    We tested the new kevlar versions of the Nate and HD tires: all was dry but they seemed to offer some more grip on sketchy stuff. We didn't manage to tear one, but they do wear faster - which fits with the softer compound/more grip impression.

  84. #84
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    I'm curious to see how the new suspension forks will work.

    And just what NEW suspension forks would those be please ????
    Life IS a Beach and then you Corrode :)

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    Milton finished at a fantastic 2nd place in the Ironbike, considered by many the toughest mtb race in the world.
    Before you argue it isn't, do take a look at daily denivelations and on what kind of trails they have to bike (and carry) . It's just brutal...

    He lost time in one stage at the beginning of the race to the later overall winner, but then began chipping away at the lead - he won most stages but the race was one day too short for Milton... He mailed: "...a pity I couldn't win but I sure made Fojtek run for it..." .
    Way to go Milton ! There's a nice picture of him and his Sandman between the rotating header pictures of the homepage of the Ironbike - the one with the flag: ::: IronBike 2011 :::

    I'm collecting pictures to make a trip report of the Megavalanche races, I'll have to hurry because next week they're at the Orcières Maxiavalanche - without me this time.

  86. #86
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    Holy Smokes! Congradulations Milton; Stud, one each!


    Quote Originally Posted by caminoloco View Post
    But he has some awesome video footage from his qualifying run, where you'll see for yourself where & when there's room to pass a whole bunch of fulles (different lines in fast turns, powering past them on the uphills and really sticking the bikes into the bermed turns - fullies lose a lot of energy/speed there). Passing people was never a problem on our bikes, pinch flats continue to be so. Basically the only terrain where we had to give the big fullies some room was on the really, really rough DH parts and on fast, subsequent jumps.
    It seems as though Sandman is on the cutting edge of racing evolution. Can't wait to see this video and the photos of Megavalanche.

  87. #87
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    Looks like a couple of shots of Martin in this video from 2011.

    ::: IronBike 2011 ::: - Video Gallery

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    really interested in these bikes, trying to send you a PM Caminoloc but i dont have the post count to send pm's yet

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    sandman has a website
    SANDMAN
    you can try to contact him by mail.

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    Here's a video that shows our little tire problem: at the end of the unedited video Karl rolls to a stop with... a pinch flat .

    Sandman MTB Beriain - YouTube

    He's coming down this mountain: Archivo:Beriain mendia Altsasutik.jpg - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre

    To give you an idea of the speed he's travelling at, he passes a herd of sheep around the 0.47' mark.

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    Ok, here's a little race report of both the Megavalanche in Alpe d'Huez a few weeks ago and the Maxiavalanche in Orcières last weekend.

    When in France, do as the French . So no energy bars, pasta or very healthy snacks but grilled chicken, baguettes & cheese . We were standing right next to the huge race truck of GT and the Atherthon team.



    The Megavalanche is a huge race, more than 2000 participants from all over Europe, all here for a 2700m descent from a glacier to the valley floor. There are a series of qualifiers, waves of 200 racers each. The first 35 of every wave can continue to THE Megavalanche, slower finishers get a spot in one of the lesser finales.



    I'm no slouch going downhill but I wisely declined from entering, my turn to tend to the stand & the testbikes. Three of us did enter, here's Mark from Germany with his trademark agressive riding style.
    He finished a great 15th in his qualifying wave of 200 bikers, with nary another hardtail in the whole field. People were coming to the stand asking questions about that weird bike that flew past them



    "Old hand" Martin from Spain did just as well as Mark: 15th in his qualifier. More people started to ask questions...



    Simon, from Germany too, finished in an astonishing 5th spot in his run - just 2 minutes behind eventual overall winner Absolon. For any racer a superb result, for a weird hardtail something unheard of . Simon's finish really put the bikes on the map in Alpe d'Huez.



    In the meantime I did manage to get a few runs in, part on segments of the downhill trails, part on the maze of enduro trails that run down those mountains - here with Manu, a fellow Belgian and Ares, a Greek - Sandman has a funny way of reuniting all kinds of nationalities .



    We had high hopes for the Megavalanche itself, but alas... Marc got involved in a mass pile up on the glacier, slid out of control down the slope on his butt until... the snow stopped... . His enthousiasm somewhat diminished, he still finished around the hour, a decent finish in the better half of the pack.



    Martin fared hardly better. On the way up with the ski lift he noticed his rear brake had somehow taken in air overnight and he had to pump the lever several times to make it work. That went OK on the glacier, having to brake all the time, but once off the snow... He was racing within the top 20 when he had to overcompensate with his front brake and took a bad crash. He limped in almost dead last, with a severely torn quadriceps muscle. He's out for some time to come.... But he was very proud to have finished a childhood dream of his, never a quitter .
    Here he's about to loose his gore tex jacket (waiting for the start on top of that glacier is a pretty frigid affair), the zipper of his backpack coming open after the crash.



    Simon was also running top 20 when he flatted... to add insult to injury, his pump didn't work well and he spent 10 minutes inflating his rear tire. Somehow, he still managed to finish under the hour. Just. His goal for next year: a 50 minute descent .



    When all was said and done, I could enjoy a few family descents .



    I don't know if taking them up with the skilift was a good thing though, they might have gotten used to it already...



    But to be frank, I might get used to it too


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    Last weekend saw us at the Maxiavalanche race in Orcières, France. Where we adorned the testbike stand with a bit of pink...



    Pink...
    Ah yes, we met Eva, the lovely Full Size hostess from the Maxi in Cervinia again and always being the perfect gentemen we offered to share our stand...
    You've got to admit that a touch of pink didn't do our stand no harm ?



    Martin was out, with his torn muscle. But Milton, fresh from his 2nd place finish in the Ironbike, wanted to have a go at enduro racing with Martin's bike. Here he's fooling around on our new paddock bike, a "city" Atacama.



    At the start, another energy drink did the honours while Milton shivers away the wait for the start - he hates cold . He finished a very, very decent 16th in his qualifier - being a rookie at this and on a bike a size too big for him.



    And this is how he finished in the Eurocup finale, snakebite. He still managed to come in around half the field in this "grand" finale.



    But after Cervinia we got smarter, instead of an XTR derailleur, this time we only had to bury a (brand new nevertheless) Shimano Zee...



    Simon flatted (snakebite, this is getting old...) on his qualifying run, so he was relegated to the "lesser" finale along with all other racers who had suffered mechanical problems, crashed or were just not-so-fast.
    One of our by now personal fans giving the start - smart girl, she put on leggings against the cold !



    Simon flatted (again, but this time at the front) about two kms from the finish, he was so pissed that he just continued with the tire around the hub. The tire and tube tore off the front brake hose, but somehow didn't jam the front wheel.
    He barged across the finish in a superb 3rd spot, with an utterly destroyed front rim. As he was carrying a Gopro on a chest harness, we've got everything on video .
    But we need to do some editing first, his expletives while gassing it on a bare rim are in German but perfectly understood by non-natives
    Congrats with that podium Simon !



    Simon & Milton together with Eva, our next-door poster girl .


  93. #93
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    Wow, nice writeup and photos as usual, caminoloco!

    I will ask this question again, I guess you missed it many posts ago: I noticed that many of the Sandman bikes are running the front Nate in reverse direction—is there a notable advantage to running the front in the reverse direction? My personal preference for the rear is run in the reverse direction for optimal traction, but I never thought that the front could make a similar gain.
    Don’t frail and blow if you’re going to Braille and Flow.

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    Brilliant report and pics! I'm thinking... maybe... next year...

  95. #95
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    Nice write up and pics.
    One thing i have noticed throughout all the post is that you all seem to have a lot of flats.
    Maybe you should try regular surly tubes in stead of smaller 26x2.2-2.5 ones ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leopold Porkstacker View Post
    Wow, nice writeup and photos as usual, caminoloco!

    I will ask this question again, I guess you missed it many posts ago: I noticed that many of the Sandman bikes are running the front Nate in reverse direction—is there a notable advantage to running the front in the reverse direction? My personal preference for the rear is run in the reverse direction for optimal traction, but I never thought that the front could make a similar gain.
    Didn't I answer that, sorry... thing is that it's an ongoing discussion amongst us too. Some say running it backwards (looking from above with the "V" pointing to the back) is best for braking power - which you need up front - because dirt and mud don't build up but are forced outward through the channels when braking.

    Following the same line of thought in the rear, the V has to point forward (again, looking from above) because traction happens in the other direction.

    But since in this kind of races braking power on both wheels is more important than traction, both tires go on backwards.

    Others say they can't really feel the difference, and just put on the tires any way that looks good .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rabies010 View Post
    Nice write up and pics.
    One thing i have noticed throughout all the post is that you all seem to have a lot of flats.
    Maybe you should try regular surly tubes in stead of smaller 26x2.2-2.5 ones ?
    99% of the flats we suffer during these races are snakebites. We were only yesterday wondering exactly the same, if the Surly tubes would make a difference compared to the Maxxis DH ones we're running.... maybe, just maybe liquid latex might work better in those tubes because they're less stretched ?

    Anyone here with experience in this matter ? Liquid latex, Surly tubes & snakebites: how does that add up ?

  98. #98
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    On my Pugs i have a SC-32 and a 47mm Trialtech rim up front, so it's more or less comparable to what you ride.
    In the back i have a Rohloff and a Large Marge.
    And i had 5 flats in 3 months, all were on the front tire and were from small punctures and not from snakebites.
    I have inflated a normal Schwalbe tube to fit in a Black Floyd once, but i didnt like how thin it was after it was stretched out.
    So i tossed aside and went for a Surly tube because i didn't trust it to hold up to my riding
    And my riding doesn't even come close to what you guys are doing...

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    Yes try the Surly Toobs. Especially for the downhill runs where a little rolling weight increase might be hardly noticeable. Also, great report and pictures. Great to see you guys getting good results.

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    I think most of us run lower pressures and never snakebite, but these guys are going so fast AND taking different lines in order to pass slower guys... a thicker tube might cure a bit of the problem, a thicker tube that works with liquid latex might cure more.

    But as long that we run tubes, we'll have pinch flats. But so far only one guy (an English tester last year in the Megavalanche) managed to punch the rim through the tube AND the tire. Torn sidewalls from hitting sharp rocks are not much of an issue neither.

    So if we can develop a tubeless system that is burp-free, we're pretty much set.

  101. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by caminoloco View Post
    Didn't I answer that, sorry... thing is that it's an ongoing discussion amongst us too. Some say running it backwards (looking from above with the "V" pointing to the back) is best for braking power - which you need up front - because dirt and mud don't build up but are forced outward through the channels when braking.

    Following the same line of thought in the rear, the V has to point forward (again, looking from above) because traction happens in the other direction.

    But since in this kind of races braking power on both wheels is more important than traction, both tires go on backwards.

    Others say they can't really feel the difference, and just put on the tires any way that looks good .
    OK, thanks for the explanation. I’ve noticed on some other directional tires that running the rear in reverse gives substantially better traction with a compromise in braking confidence. I guess this makes sense in your case (racing) to have more predictable braking on the front and rear.
    Don’t frail and blow if you’re going to Braille and Flow.

  102. #102
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    got to see a Sandman at the Wausau 24
    supper nice bike and the owner seemed really happy with it
    never thought I would see one in the land of cheese and beer


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    Quote Originally Posted by SlowerJoe View Post
    got to see a Sandman at the Wausau 24
    supper nice bike and the owner seemed really happy with it
    never thought I would see one in the land of cheese and beer
    Sj
    I heard that he won his category in that race, can anyone confirm this ? I think that there are 3 or 4 Hoggars and a few Gobi's in the US so far.

    The guy at Wausau isn't the only one racing non-gravity oriënted stuff. Here are a few pictures of Milton at the Ironbike a few weeks ago.
    The Ironbike is arguably world's most brutal mtb race, it's a prologue + 7 stage affair in the Italian Alps. Daily positive denivelations of 4000m/13.000 ft are "normal"

    The race uses a mix of trails, old derelict military roads dating from the first world war and some dirtroads.



    Milton won the race last year, and that's where he met Martin (who had borrowed a Sandman, finishing around 40th spot). This year he had his title to defend, so he had pimped his Hoggar with parts of sponsors in order to make a sub 10kg marathon machine that could take him high & far. Nice work Milton !



    The Ironbike involves much pushing & carrying so the top racers all train specifically for this, hiking up mountains with their bikes on their shoulder. Here that training pays off...



    Milton started great winning the prologue, but in the first stage a Tchech racer won with a 14 minute margin. Milton started chasing from then on, winning all but one stages and chipping away at the lead.
    But at the end the race was one day too short... he finished on a still fantastic 2nd place this year. Congrats Milton !!!
    Next year he has his sights on the Colorado Trail race, with the fat wheels .


  104. #104
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    Here's Martin's view of the Mega:

    Enjoy it - we did (though Martin a bit less at the end...).

  105. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by caminoloco View Post
    The advantages of leading in a major race, heli images . Enjoy !







    I remember those dunes , last year, it was even very difficult to walks on those, it was on stage one, just after the hotel xaluca in Maadid, and it was a loong day,and after there was 80 kms very hot and dry dessert with the small rocks!! that race make your a$$ feel like guacamole, In titan Desert race, you arse will finish even you hava a full suspension bike, (I was riding a epic s works ) this time will try one of those sand man on La Ruta and Titan Desert, need to buy one!!! have to talk to Milton!!

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    And here's Martin's new video of their trip to Are, Sweden:

    I couldn't be there, alas, I was busy biking the Colorado trail and a few days in Moab... not too bad either ;-).
    The Roc d'Azur is looming again at the horizon, the race "that started it all" - so looking forward to it !

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    Great video, it makes me want to take my Sandman there this evening. Unfortunately it's really far even though I live in Sweden...

  108. #108
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    Great vid!
    Although this does make waiting for mine to cross the pond all the more tortuous

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    Just heard that Milton is participating in the UCI world championship marathon next week in Ornans (F).
    Whoohoo, first fatbike ever in a world championship . Agreed, an extremely slim fatbike , but a fatbike nonetheless - change trail, not bike

    Others are noting Milton's successes on the bike too, Polar for instance couldn't have stated it better:




  110. #110
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    Wow, looks like endorsement/sponsorship. Nice work!
    Don’t frail and blow if you’re going to Braille and Flow.

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    No sponsorship that I know of, the Sandman brand isn't visible on the pictures. Maybe they sponsor Milton as a private sponsor - I'll ask him next time I see him at the Roc d'Azur (the race series that started this thread a year ago).

    In that case I guess Polar thought the pictures just looked nice, he musn't be the only racer they sponsor. And they were right, I love that desert picture (sorry for the lopsided view, the thing shows up straight on my screen but keeps popping the wrong way).

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    Martin just finished the Maxiavalanche in Orcières "buddy movie" . Kind of late because it took place almost two months ago !



    It was Milton's first gravity-oriented race, him being a long distance specialist. He did well for a novice and on a bike a size too big for him, finishing in the middle of that crazy pack at 59th place in the Eurocup final. Let's see how he does at the marathon world championship this weekend...

    Simon flatted during qualifying, took a podium finish in the Challenge final. On the only "hardtail" in the field .

    We might have found a solution for all those pinch flats... and for most of the "normal" flats as well for that matter. We'll get the prototypes for the Roc d'Azur races.

    Speaking of races: you'll never guess to which (mayor) race this Outback will be heading soon ! A tip: it's all in the name !


  113. #113
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    The first fatbike (on a strict diet, but a fatbike nonetheless ) in an UCI world championship - who would have thought...

    All the best to Milton tomorrow, gogogo !


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    Milton had to start with #135 out of the 150 elite world cup participants. And there went his chance for a podium finish .
    Just kidding, but he did go from almost last starter to a very honourable 50th finishing spot, after a long, hard race in terrible conditions. The racers' pictures aren't online yet, here's a selection of "best of":

    Sportograf @ MTB Marathon WM Ornans 2012

    Don't let the clean looks at the start fool you, scroll to the left for images of later on - I love that picture #31 .

    I was leafing through some bike magazines I had picked up at Eurobike, and lo and behold: a double spread of Milton in the lead during the Titan Desert race.



    And here comes the rest of the pack, in hot pursuit...


  115. #115
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    That last picture says all that needs to be said as to why you should have a fatbike.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Any bike, anywhere, anytime.
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  116. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by caminoloco View Post

    Great video, Martin! And do I owe him a congratulations yet? Is the new Sandman team racer-in-training a boy or a girl?

    I could sense the "what the heck" response of the other racers as Simon passed them by. (Man, that's got to feel good!) I noticed that Simon is really good at product placement, as well. And don't you wish you could pack and ship all your racers like Milton? Just think of the money you could save.

    Finally, what happened to the gentleman with all the scares?
    Last edited by Saw; 10-08-2012 at 06:10 PM.

  117. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saw View Post
    Great video, Martin! And do I owe him a congratulations yet? Is the new Sandman team racer-in-training a boy or a girl?

    I could sense the "what the heck" response of the other racers as Simon passed them by. (Man, that's got to feel good!) I noticed that Simon is really good at product placement, as well. And don't you wish you could pack and ship all your racers like Milton? Just think of the money you could save.

    Finally, what happened to the gentleman with all the scares?
    Litlle Fabian will be out of mommy's tummy in a few weeks time, wait until he sees what his daddy is up to . Here's his teaser of the NCBR movie:

    The guy in the video with the scarred face is Jojo from Germany, he would have raced in Orcières but crashed big time with his road bike the week before. He will be racing at the Roc d'Azur later this week. We're joking that he's Martin's long-lost twin bother - separated at birth and given to other parents . They're so much alike (and both equally crazy on a bike...).

    As for shipping out race Sandman bikes with an additional 29er wheelset and a Lefty: they do that - Milton's bike was not the first one. That was for a guy who wanted it to compete in the Cape Epic in march. I talked to him at a bike meet some months afterwards and he told me that he should have raced the fat wheels there, if there'd be dependable tubeless/liquid latex solution - thorns are a mayor issue there.
    From what I heard the real problem is getting hold of those carbon Lefty forks, sold out most of the time.

  118. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by caminoloco View Post
    Litlle Fabian will be out of mommy's tummy in a few weeks time, wait until he sees what his daddy is up to . Here's his teaser of the NCBR movie:

    The guy in the video with the scarred face is Jojo from Germany, he would have raced in Orcières but crashed big time with his road bike the week before. He will be racing at the Roc d'Azur later this week. We're joking that he's Martin's long-lost twin bother - separated at birth and given to other parents . They're so much alike (and both equally crazy on a bike...).

    As for shipping out race Sandman bikes with an additional 29er wheelset and a Lefty: they do that - Milton's bike was not the first one. That was for a guy who wanted it to compete in the Cape Epic in march. I talked to him at a bike meet some months afterwards and he told me that he should have raced the fat wheels there, if there'd be dependable tubeless/liquid latex solution - thorns are a mayor issue there.
    From what I heard the real problem is getting hold of those carbon Lefty forks, sold out most of the time.


    I'm sorry, I should have been a little clearer with my "pack and ship" comment. I was talking about how they loaded Milton into the van towards the end of the video. However, that would be an interesting option.
    Good luck in the Roc d' Azur.

  119. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saw View Post


    I'm sorry, I should have been a little clearer with my "pack and ship" comment. I talking about how they loaded Milton into the van towards the end of the video. However, that would be an interesting option.
    Good luck in the Roc d' Azur.


    Choose your option:
    - little marathon man, pro behaviour in everything he does
    - giant DH dude, always finds a way to take pictures of energy drink hostesses
    - overweight tech nerd, really gets going after 11pm
    - cool bloke with camera, hyperkinetic & hippie cross-breed
    - his long lost twin brother, different language, scars included
    - xtreme marathon man, be prepared to remove him off bike with crowbar or bear spray

    Off to the south of France now

  120. #120
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    https://www.endurotribe.com/wp-conte...rtincampoy.jpg Come on great picture from Enduro tribe.com

  121. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by circu View Post
    https://www.endurotribe.com/wp-conte...rtincampoy.jpg Come on great picture from Enduro tribe.com
    Nice action shot!
    Don’t frail and blow if you’re going to Braille and Flow.

  122. #122
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    Nate's going the wrong way?

    Quote Originally Posted by circu View Post
    https://www.endurotribe.com/wp-conte...rtincampoy.jpg Come on great picture from Enduro tribe.com
    Is the front tire in the "correct" tire rotation direction?

    Just askin'.

  123. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7HVN View Post
    Is the front tire in the "correct" tire rotation direction?

    Just askin'.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by caminoloco
    Didn't I answer that, sorry... thing is that it's an ongoing discussion amongst us too. Some say running it backwards (looking from above with the "V" pointing to the back) is best for braking power - which you need up front - because dirt and mud don't build up but are forced outward through the channels when braking.

    Following the same line of thought in the rear, the V has to point forward (again, looking from above) because traction happens in the other direction.

    But since in this kind of races braking power on both wheels is more important than traction, both tires go on backwards.

    Others say they can't really feel the difference, and just put on the tires any way that looks good .
    Don’t frail and blow if you’re going to Braille and Flow.

  124. #124
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    Here is another via Pink Bike.

    Roc D'Azur 2012: Thursday Enduro Race - Pinkbike

    2010 Intense Spider 2
    2010 Ibis Tranny SS
    2012 Salsa Mukluk 2
    2013 Salsa Spearfish 1
    2013 Trek Domane 5.2
    2014 Hakkalugi

  125. #125
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    Nice action shots!

  126. #126
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    This is a least how I thought I was riding yesterday on the Sandman.
    Maybe slower and slightly less intense......But it still was an awesome ride in my world
    Moonlander's
    Sandman Hogger Ti

  127. #127
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    Pfff, still recuperating from a heavy week... little sleep, long days. It started out by us converging from the four corners of Europe to Fréjus, a coastal town between Nice and St. Tropez. The goal was the Roc d'Azur, the European equivalent of the Sea Otter Classic.

    Lots of people, lots of races, even more bikes. I was asked to man the Sandman booth this year, but managed to squeeze in one race - the enduro. But that was a bad idea, because leading up to the race I got 6 hours of sleep... in total, between monday and thursday morning when I found myself gasping for air at the start on top of a hill (we had lost our way driving up to the start, so we arrived 45 minutes late...).
    To be frank: I sucked... in the rough stuff (and there was lots of it !) my vision was so blurred I couldn't focus and I crashed 3 times in the first special... lack of sleep I guess. So I called it quits, bummer... my ego even more bruised than my body ... and made my way back to the booth 15 k further on.
    Here's the official "best of" video: Best Of Roc d'Azur 2012 - YouTube - I do figure in it... ok, ok, my helmet flahes by somewhere

    There were about 300 racers in the enduro, Milton took 15th on his marathon bike, Simon crashed but still managed 18th. Martin (the guy drifting on the pictures in earlier posts) flatted and came in around 200th place.

    Here's Milton's bike at the booth, the day afterwards he competed in the marathon with the exact same bike apart from the tires and came in an incredible 29th out of 3100 (!) racers.



    He told me his race strategy had paid off: the first 20% of the race he had climbed at an easy pace, letting the racers surrounding him go off in front. Only to reel them in again on the downhills.
    After that he started to stay with his fellow racers on the climbs, to shake them off in the descents and hooking up with the next group on the following climb, which he would loose... and so on, steadily reeling in the front runners.
    Elias lost his rear wheel on a climb (his QR loose, with the nut dropping off !), had to spend some time looking for that nut and then steamed forward to 60th position.
    After the race dozens and dozens of people dropped by the stand to check out the weird bikes that had smoked them .

    Lots of dealer interest in the 2013 Gobi. We didn't race any because we didn't even have the time to break in the brake pads. More race pictures of those to follow.



    Elias and Martin had big fun in the tandem race, finishing 50th out of a few hundred teams. Not bad, considering they had ridden the tandem (any tandem in fact) 3 times around the block the night before. And considering the fact that they lost the chain between the two cranks maybe 15 times during the race (it was too loose).
    Both were very proud never to have been passed while biking, not uphill nor downhill. They had passed a bunch on the beach and had a hoot on the bike, with Martin screaming "Braaaake !!!" on every downhill.

    We tried to enter the street races at night but weren't allowed because it was full. Strange, because the organisation acknowledged not all teams had shown up... bizarre.
    It was a big blow, so we went out for pizza & beers . From left to right Simon (our downhill ace), Daniel (a Swedish bike instructor we met at the Maxiavalanche in Are), Martin (from the videos), Jojo (wooden boat-builder annex bike nut) and Milton (the marathon man).



    The next day Milton and Elias entered the Roc d'Azur race itself, an XC race. Too short for them, Milton finished around 50th and Elias 60-70 spots behind - out of 5100 racers. Both weren't very stoked with their result, such a short (53k !) race not being their cup of tea and a start position in the middle of the first wave (of more than 600 racers). But all things considering, a pretty nice result.
    In the meanwhile I was having fun at the booth, all kinds of people testing the bikes - sometimes in pretty weird ways !





    Meanwhile, at the other side of the globe, a somewhat more experienced tandem team has started in the Crocodile Trophy. The bike is aptly named ! To be continued...


  128. #128
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    Great job on the racing and a wonderful write-up, as usual. Sandman's results are really consistent. I bet you guys will be the team to beat within a year or two.

    Good luck in Australia!

  129. #129
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    Quote from the Crocodile Trophy: "This year's [2011] exceptional performance of tandem riders from Italy and Belgium have made the organizers include this category in the program for 2012 again."

    Are they referring to Sandman here or another team of Belgians?

  130. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by caminoloco View Post
    ...Meanwhile, at the other side of the globe, a somewhat more experienced tandem team has started in the Crocodile Trophy....
    I was right on the spot today.

    Went to ride up the road for the first climb* only to be told it would be closed because the climb was being used for the race. So did a quick detour to the other side of the mountain, put my track bike on my shoulder and jogged/staggered as fast as I could 1,500 feet up through the rainforest sweating like a pig in 30ºC+, and then on a dirt track to Lake Morris. Who said RSF style riding is out of date?



    Anyhow, got there before the peleton, so rode over the dam nipped up the next few climbs so I could watch the race on an interesting bit. Shot off a load of pics and headed back. I was thinking it's a shame I'm not on other forums to post the pics, when what did I see coming up the hill (and I might add it's a bloody steep hill)

    I barely managed to get my camera out before they were passing me, so sorry about the blur



    So like a shameless teenie groupie I ran up the hill after them, yelling encouragement and getting appropriately ignored





    The lads were a bit behind the main group, but I've ridden the course, so they should make up a heap of time when they hit the flatter loose stuff.

    *UK riders will get an idea of what the climb is like when I say it is very similar to the Bealach Na Bah in height and length



    (I don't have my fatbike here in Oz, so I'm using a Giant Bowery as my "mountain" bike. The gearing and skinny tyres make it really interesting - It's not often you get to relive your mispent youth. )
    Last edited by Velobike; 10-21-2012 at 02:07 AM. Reason: clarified it
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    Milton and Elias rode fat tyres on the Marathon and XC? If so I am utterly impressed again. If not the HuDus then what? Knard?
    Either the Roc d'Azur has a lot of very fat-friendly downhills or they are superhuman. My bike (12,8 kg now, tubeless HuDus) still feel like it's holding me back on anything road-like.
    Can you please disclose what tyre pressure they run in marathon/XC races? I suppose higher pressures >10 psi would roll a lot better, but I find it bounces too much and gives up a lot of the benefits...
    Please, please - I want to be just-as-fast on my Hoggar too! (as fast as I am on my other bike, not as fast as Milton, that won't happen)

  132. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by edicviz View Post
    Milton and Elias rode fat tyres on the Marathon and XC? If so I am utterly impressed again. If not the HuDus then what? Knard?
    Either the Roc d'Azur has a lot of very fat-friendly downhills or they are superhuman. My bike (12,8 kg now, tubeless HuDus) still feel like it's holding me back on anything road-like.
    Can you please disclose what tyre pressure they run in marathon/XC races? I suppose higher pressures >10 psi would roll a lot better, but I find it bounces too much and gives up a lot of the benefits...
    Please, please - I want to be just-as-fast on my Hoggar too! (as fast as I am on my other bike, not as fast as Milton, that won't happen)
    You shouldn't be riding it on anything road-like !. Just kidding, you have to let the bike do the work for you. Like Milton said of his race strategy, take it easy on the climbs, brake later, load the front, go faster in the turns (you can you MUCH faster compared to a normal fully). That way you don't have to relaunch yourself after every turn.
    And then smoke everybody on the downhills .

    Elias and Milton did participate on the fat tires in both races. They might have won a few spots on 29ers (they finished 2nd and 3rd in the Irobike this year, so yes, they can push those pedals !) but then... where's the fun in that ?!? They couldn't go for a podium anyway, with most of Europe's pro racers there.

    Here's a good video that shows how you have to race a Sandman: Le roc d'azur Marathon 2011 "suite" - YouTube

    The video shows a guy riding up to Milton on a fast, flat part. Then making fun of him around 0.55". Then around 1.15" he says "Sh*t, that goes fast".
    Near the top of the climb he overtakes him briefly, then after being passed again he says "we're going to stay here (in the group), I'm good here" .

    And on the descent Milton dissapears, never to be seen again . Mind you, that was his very first ride & race on a Sandman. He still had to figure out what the bike could do.
    Milton said that there was a big difference between this and last year, not only his riding style evolved. Last year fellow racers sometimes got mad at him when he passed them, out of frustration. This year not, they've "accepted" those strange bikes .

    I think they ran between 0.9 and 1.1 bar. They go that fast that at lower pressures they pinch flat or the tires rolls out under them in fast turns or when landing on a sideways slope.

    As for tires: on the XC and marathon they ran Husker Du's back & front. For the enduro it was a Nate up front and a HD in the back. Or both ways Nate if there wasn't much pedalling involved or in wetter conditions.
    We just tested a Knard, we only have one so we put it in the back. It's a curious tire: a bit slower compared to a HD and with less sideways grip on gravel when turning, but with much more grip on tech stuff uphill. Go figure...

    Overall, it has been a great season: we've proven we can run with the big boys just about everywhere. There's almost too much to remember, but highlights were Elias win in the Rovaniemi150 snowrace, Milton's 2nd overall, with most stage wins in the Ironbike (on 29ers) and Simon qualifying an astonishing 5th in the Megavalanche. And Martin's videos ofcourse.
    The only mechanical issue we have to resolve by next year are the pinch flats - those cost us a lot of really good results... For the rest the bikes performed flawlessly.

    The funny thing is: this race project was all coincidental. I had registered for the 2010 BC Bike Race but couldn't go due to professional reasons. I passed my slot and the prototype Sandman Gobi on to a mate, Elias Van Hoeydonck. Which I knew was fast but had hardly competed in any race before.
    Elias his 16th overall in the BCBR 2010 (he was top 10 until he dislocated his shoulder during the last stage) gave Sandman much to think about... . We met Martin Campoy on a demo last year, where we lent him a bike (he didn't have one !!!) to show us the way to a nice photo opportunity. After seeing him ride, we asked "have you ever raced ?" .
    We left a testbike with him, to particpate in a few races he had always wanted to do. He then asked for a bike to join his girlfriend on a hiking trip in Nepal and he came back with a pretty amazing video to thank us:

    Simon Toplak we met at the Megavalanche last year, we were there with testbikes and he had just broken his DH bike so he came to see us (we had a sign up "Do you want to race on these bikes ?" .

    Milton Ramos met Martin during the Ironbike 2011, which he won. He was so intrigued by that strange bike and saw Martin do the craziest things with it that he asked to join us - for the heck of it - in the Roc d'Azur last year (where this thread started).

    This year Sandman wanted to see how far we could take the bikes. I hope we didn't dissapoint and that you enjoyed our little race adventures, we sure did !

    Now, what's next... ? Some races on US soil ? Which are the good ones ? Some of the Sea Otter races, or the Downieville classic ? The newer enduro races ? I'm itching to see who we'll meet there !


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    Quote Originally Posted by caminoloco View Post
    Now, what's next... ? Some races on US soil ? Which are the good ones ? Some of the Sea Otter races, or the Downieville classic ? The newer enduro races ? I'm itching to see who we'll meet there !
    Dude, if you’re seriously considering coming to California for racing, it would be an honour to meet you all (the entire crew). I’d recommend Downieville, Napa Valley Dirt Classic, CCCX, and the Howell Mountain Challenge. Sea Otter is a pussy race, in that the terrain isn’t challenging and mostly flat fireroads; unless you’re looking for an easy podium on a 29er with skinny tires and a rider who is a cardio-roadie, look elsewhere. I got 30th out of 68 on my fully-rigid two-speed (32/22x17t) 9:zero:7 this past April, see picture—could have placed within top 10 with a higher set of gear ratios for the mostly-flat circuit. You guys will LOVE Howell Mountain Challenge as well as Napa Valley Dirt Classic. I’ve fantasized about riding my fatbike there, but for sure a suspension fork would seal the deal for me.
    Don’t frail and blow if you’re going to Braille and Flow.

  134. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leopold Porkstacker View Post
    Dude, if you’re seriously considering coming to California for racing, it would be an honour to meet you all (the entire crew). I’d recommend Downieville, Napa Valley Dirt Classic, CCCX, and the Howell Mountain Challenge. Sea Otter is a ***** race, in that the terrain isn’t challenging and mostly flat fireroads; unless you’re looking for an easy podium on a 29er with skinny tires and a rider who is a cardio-roadie, look elsewhere. I got 30th out of 68 on my fully-rigid two-speed (32/22x17t) 9:zero:7 this past April, see picture—could have placed within top 10 with a higher set of gear ratios for the mostly-flat circuit. You guys will LOVE Howell Mountain Challenge as well as Napa Valley Dirt Classic. I’ve fantasized about riding my fatbike there, but for sure a suspension fork would seal the deal for me.
    If that's a hamburger on your handlebars I'm sure we'll get along just great ! And hats off for racing with that gear combination...

    Until now I've been doing all this stuff as a sideline to my real job and a perfect way to have a steady supply of great bikes & gear to test. No stock, no options, no wage: but fun ! That might change soon as I'm about to enter officially on Sandman's payroll. One of the things that will land on my desk will be determining the race & adventure calendar for 2013.

    So I'll need to decide wether to look for local racers willing to go up against normal bikes on a race fattie, or us to come over for a few selected races and see how we fare.

    Or maybe a mix of both. Or come over early in the season to compete in a few races, leave the bikes there for local racers to have fun with them and then either sell the bikes or come and get them while competing in some late season races... choices, choices...

    If we'd come over, it'll probably be for the bigger events, with an expo area which allows test bikes. It's nice to look at the bikes, but sooo much better if you can take them for a spin.
    The Sea Otter seems like the biggest out there, but you're telling me the races aren't cool ?

  135. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by caminoloco View Post
    If that's a hamburger on your handlebars I'm sure we'll get along just great ! And hats off for racing with that gear combination...

    Yes, burgers for the win!

    Quote Originally Posted by caminoloco View Post
    Until now I've been doing all this stuff as a sideline to my real job and a perfect way to have a steady supply of great bikes & gear to test. No stock, no options, no wage: but fun ! That might change soon as I'm about to enter officially on Sandman's payroll. One of the things that will land on my desk will be determining the race & adventure calendar for 2013.

    So I'll need to decide wether to look for local racers willing to go up against normal bikes on a race fattie, or us to come over for a few selected races and see how we fare.

    Or maybe a mix of both. Or come over early in the season to compete in a few races, leave the bikes there for local racers to have fun with them and then either sell the bikes or come and get them while competing in some late season races... choices, choices...

    If we'd come over, it'll probably be for the bigger events, with an expo area which allows test bikes. It's nice to look at the bikes, but sooo much better if you can take them for a spin.
    The Sea Otter seems like the biggest out there, but you're telling me the races aren't cool ?
    Sea Otter is more of a media handjob/schmooze-fest for the vendors and promoters, but for biking in general as a whole it is a win, as the broad spectrum of bike-centric activities draws thousands of people. The roadbike and CX racing courses are good, but the layout for the XC race leaves a lot to be desired in my mind—I like a bit less flat stuff and a bit more steep/technical stuff—it’s got a lot of flat fire roads and only about 5 miles of real singletrack. I have zero experience with the DH and dual-slalom races though, perhaps others can chime in.

    I’d jump at the chance to do a race on a Sandman-sponsored fatbike/team (wink wink nudge nudge know what I mean?). Having logged 3,000+ fatbiking miles (roughly 1/2 on technical trails) I know my way around fatbikes and their special abilities.

    But worst case, you guys come to California, we can hang out and drink Belgian ales and eat burgers after riding some of the nicest trails you’ll find in the United States.
    Don’t frail and blow if you’re going to Braille and Flow.

  136. #136
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    But worst case, you guys come to California, we can hang out and drink Belgian ales and eat burgers after riding some of the nicest trails you’ll find in the United States.
    I would be down with that. I recently moved to the Sacramento area from Seattle. I had a Pugs for a while in Seattle, but eventually sold it due to the offset. I'm currently on a 29er and have been thinking about a fatbike with a 170mm rear to run two wheelsets (29er and fat). Being car-less makes most of my singletrack rides at least 60 mi round trip. I do miss the fatties for gnarlier terrain.

  137. #137
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    When the race schedule for 2013 is known we'll see if we can hook up somewhere !

    In the meantime, Martin has finished his BCBR movie:

    Enjoy.

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    ...another great video

  139. #139
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    And here's the race video from this years' Roc. Lot of camera malfunctions so Martin didn't get all the images he wished he had, but I hope the general sense of fun is transmitted .



    He and Elias were pretty ecstatic after their tandem race (first ride ever for Elias as a tandem captain and a first ever tandem experience for Martin in the backseat).
    Martin and Jojo went to have some wet fun on the beach after the races... boys with toys...

  140. #140
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    You have fun that's the most importan

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    Always nice vid's!!!

  142. #142
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    Cool video!!! Nice to see you were the only ones NOT walking your bikes when the terrain got rough/loose!
    Don’t frail and blow if you’re going to Braille and Flow.

  143. #143
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    bit off topic but what size is Milton's hoggar?

  144. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojak View Post
    bit off topic but what size is Milton's hoggar?
    It's a small


  145. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojak View Post
    bit off topic but what size is Milton's hoggar?

    [QUOTE=caminoloco;9979467]It's a small


    I have a 30" inseam but a long torso.
    I went with a medium for a little longer TT reach.
    The stand over is just low enough to clear
    Moonlander's
    Sandman Hogger Ti

  146. #146
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    [QUOTE=bprsnt;9979511]
    Quote Originally Posted by caminoloco View Post
    It's a small


    I have a 30" inseam but a long torso.
    I went with a medium for a little longer TT reach.
    The stand over is just low enough to clear
    Reminds me of one of the first prototypes a few years ago , those frames were crazy light (1500 gr painted) but they dented really easy too. One of my mates was fooling around with it, wheelies, stoppies... when he lost it during a particularly steep stoppie and landed... not well .

    Long story short: you CAN dent a bike's top tube with your sensitive parts and still make children afterwards !

    Did you see this video ? Why Sandman. - YouTube

    Only a few bits of races in it, but it's a nice video - shows what you can do with the bikes/what they're meant for. View it full screen, high res.

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    thanks...i think that will be my next bike..but maybe not so soon though if it were up to me i would surely order now..im sure the wife have something to say..

    it will one day replace my fs bike...

  148. #148
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    Hey everybody,

    Martin needs your help to replace his stolen bike, if he manages to catch Wade Simmons, who has a BCBR bounty on his head...

    chasing the bantid - YouTube

    If you "like" his video by giving it a thumbs-up, he has a chance to participate in the British Columbia Bike Race again. Last year he did a last-minute replacement and finished 43rd overall on his fatbike. Coincidentally biking lots of time together with Wade, one of his "childhood heros" !

    So please do give his movie the thumbs-up and have a fatbike racer amongst the big boys again (sort of, he'd win his spot using a fatbike :-)).

    And spread the word, let the "fat" social media do their work !
    Last edited by caminoloco; 03-27-2013 at 10:50 AM.

  149. #149
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    Liked, also because it is a cool video.
    Martin knows what he is doing

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    At the Megavalanche race last year in august, Sandman sent an already tired Hoggar testbike along with an Italian dealer for further testing. The bike has been doing rounds in northern Italy between dealers and people wanting to try it. It hasn't been back at Sandman's for any maintenance since and god knows in what shape it is now - you know how it goes with testbikes...

    Last week a certain Gabriele Tarsia Incuria borrowed the Hoggar, still completely stock apart from the tires, and took it to the start of this season's first race of the highly competitive Italian Superenduro series.
    He finished 1st in the hardtail category, by a +6 minute margin. Almost seems unfair :-). Great ride Gabriele !


  151. #151
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    Congrats! When is your next race?

  152. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by caminoloco View Post
    At the Megavalanche race last year in august, Sandman sent an already tired Hoggar testbike along with an Italian dealer for further testing. The bike has been doing rounds in northern Italy between dealers and people wanting to try it. It hasn't been back at Sandman's for any maintenance since and god knows in what shape it is now - you know how it goes with testbikes...

    Last week a certain Gabriele Tarsia Incuria borrowed the Hoggar, still completely stock apart from the tires, and took it to the start of this season's first race of the highly competitive Italian Superenduro series.
    He finished 1st in the hardtail category, by a +6 minute margin. Almost seems unfair :-). Great ride Gabriele !

    Nice!

    is this the first victory for a fatbike in a non fatbike specific race?

  153. #153
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    Killer!
    "Paved roads...just another example of needless government spending"—paraphrased from rhino_adv

  154. #154
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    Best race of my live:




  155. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by saiko View Post
    Best race of my live:


    grats

  156. #156
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    Congratulations
    Moonlander's
    Sandman Hogger Ti

  157. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by saiko View Post
    Best race of my live:
    Poor guy, she's running him to death already. She's captain, he's stoker and there is no timing chain.
    Just keep pedaling. Just keep pedaling.......

  158. #158
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    Today was the 1st stage of La Ruta de los Conquistadores in Costa Rica. It's one of the toughest stage races and I think one of the first "big" races to include a separate fatbike category.
    We at Sandman hate separate fatbike categories ;-), but the race was on Elias's to-do list so off he went with his Sandman Hoggar - with fat wheels for the occasion. Milton Ramos finished 6th and 8th overall during previous editions on a Hoggar, but mostly with 29ers. Milton biked the infamous bridge crossings on fat wheels, the only biker to do/dare that until now.

    Elias finished today's stage (110km/3400 positive altitude gain) around 34th overall - the La Ruta website is down for the moment. He's 3rd in his category (the non-licensed racers) and first fatbiker by an already comfortable margin on Jim Meyer (Breck epic solo and Tatanka 100 winner).

    Way to go Elias !

  159. #159
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    Elias finished La Ruta de los Conquistadores (Costa Rica).
    1st place in the fatbike category by a big margin and 3th place in open general classification (non-federated).
    On the last day (110km fast gravel roads) he came in scant 4 minutes after the non-federated category winner, with a time that would have placed him 15th among the elite racers. On an almost standard Sandman Hoggar (no dropper seatpost), with the new VeeRubber Vee8 tires.

    Short impression:
    - tropical, humid, snakes etc
    - on day 2 a 35km-long climb to a volcano at more than 3000m altitude
    - descents that took more than 2 hours
    - the railroad bridges are pretty tricky
    - a bit too much tarmac for his liking

  160. #160
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    I must say....this post without photos aren't a proper post

  161. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by circu View Post
    I must say....this post without photos aren't a proper post
    Elias paid for a "photo package" - all pics of him taken by professional photographers during the race. But they must have all promptly taken a long siesta :-), because he hasn't received anything yet.
    Here are some links to pics from around the web:

    https://scontent-a-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/...10400830_n.jpg

    https://scontent-b-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/...96719928_n.jpg

    I love this one, everybody oggling the bike and hardly paying attention to the racer :-):

    https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.n...91870612_n.jpg

  162. #162
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    What are the rim and tire combinations being run in those photos?
    2017 Kona Process 111
    2017 Trek Stache 7 Single Speed
    2019 Norco Search XR Steel

  163. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by russmu66 View Post
    What are the rim and tire combinations being run in those photos?
    It's basically a standard Sandman Hoggar, with the normal Triatech rear SL 47mm rims. These are silver ones. The only non-standard things are the normal seatpost and the new VeeRubber Vee8 4.0 tires.

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    Looking forward to see the report ��

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