Salsa rear hub...- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Salsa rear hub...

    I bought a Mukluk 2 a little over a month ago and am LOVING it...even with the lack of snow this year so far. HOWEVER...I had it out Saturday morning and had major problems. Temp at the start of the ride was 12 degrees F, and the bike seemed to be jumping gears like crazy. I played with the barrel adjusters, as did some of the other guys on the ride, and we all agreed that it was all good...the problem was that the HUB wasn't freewheeling. I would stop pedaling, and upon resumption, I could go 1/2 crank or more with NO engagement....which very nearly resulting in several racking instances and a not-so-fun ride.

    The proposed cause of the problem is that the grease inside the hub is too thick, and with the cold temps, is hindering the action of the pawls. I'm going to open it up, clean it out, and replace it with a lighter grease, but I'm wondering if anyone else has had this problem? It would strike me as a good idea to use a lighter grease on a bike designed to operate in snow...but what the hell do I know...

  2. #2
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    Search the blog on Salsa's website. They did a write-up last year showing how to re-pack the freehub with winter grease (morningstar, available at Universal Cycles, last time I checked).

    That said, I have a mukluk one which I regularly ride at below-zero temperatures, and have not had a problem with the factory grease yet. I live in an arid area, so maybe your situation has more to do with humidity/codensation/freezing combination. (My car's door locks do that when I go to other, more humid areas...)

    Either way, it's probably worth the effort to disassemble it,clean it, dry it, and re-pack it.
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  3. #3
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    This has nothing to do with the Salsa Hub but when i lived in Saskatchewan that was a super common occurrence for me. For most of the winter I would just run oil in my freehub and when in summer put grease back in. Alleviated all the problems for me at least. I would not only have the weird freewheeling problem but also a lack of freewheeling problem which if you weren't careful could rip off the rear derailleur or break your chain.

    I like in AZ now so nothing like this, now i need to use CV joint grease in my freewheels because lighter stuff leaks out in the summer.
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  4. #4
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    We still hang bike thieves in Wyoming [Pedal House]

  5. #5
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    I picked up a Muk2 about 4 weeks ago, had the exact same problem, sounded like the chain was about to break in to pieces. It was the grease in the freehub, and after cleaning it all out and applying a lighter grease, it's been fine. Salsa was aware of this on "some" of the Muks, not all. My friend got one at the same time, and his is fine. Go figure, but either way, that's where the problem is.

    As a side note, I was also getting some chain rub against the tire. Had my LBS pull two gears (11 tooth and 13 tooth) off my cassette and re-space the cassette away from the hub. I now run a 7 speed with a better chain line, and those were two gears I never used. Chain rub is all gone as well.

  6. #6
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    Thanks guys!

  7. #7
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    Thanks from another muk2 owner as well, very nice to know what to look out for and how to prevent--great link to the Salsa vid iamkeith...

  8. #8
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    I have a salsa hub and it to showed the same symptoms. Went with a lighter grease and it has been great ever since!

  9. #9
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    Anyone know what temp the grease that comes in the hub is rated to?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTR2ebike View Post
    Anyone know what temp the grease that comes in the hub is rated to?
    2011 hubs came with a stock grease where temp rating was not known - This was hub HU0228 from QBP, and had the skewer sold seperately.

    The 2012 hubs which are HU8800, as well as all the Blue and Red sets all come with a grease rated down to -40 degrees. These hubs all include the skewer.

    Tim
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  11. #11
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    Hey Tim do you happen to know when QBP started shipping the 2012 hubs?

    Thanks

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Hey Tim do you happen to know when QBP started shipping the 2012 hubs?

    Thanks
    If the key, as Tim says, is the skewer coming with the hub, I can say that as far back as late August they shipped with a QR, as this was when I got my hubs. I am assuming these have the cold rated grease in them from what Tim has said here.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted View Post
    If the key, as Tim says, is the skewer coming with the hub, I can say that as far back as late August they shipped with a QR, as this was when I got my hubs. I am assuming these have the cold rated grease in them from what Tim has said here.
    Oops missed thar part! I recieved 2 170mm hubs from qbp 1 about 2 weeks ago and the other one about 6 weeks ago both came without a skewer. Now I guess I better find some grease for these hubs. Good thing I didn't spend a ton on them oh wait a minute yes I did!

  14. #14
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    Glad I am not the only one with this issue.

    Very frustrated that we have to even have this discussion on a "snow bike." Seems like they should get the correct grease right from the start. I had to order a 12mm allen wrench and hope that would help me figure out where all the noise and slippage was coming from. Come on.
    Love the bike. Hate that I had to service the new hub.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by chequamagon View Post
    2011 hubs came with a stock grease where temp rating was not known - This was hub HU0228 from QBP, and had the skewer sold seperately.

    The 2012 hubs which are HU8800, as well as all the Blue and Red sets all come with a grease rated down to -40 degrees. These hubs all include the skewer.

    Tim
    Thanks, any idea which hub is part of QBP part #we6007? It's a handspun salsa hub and rolling darryl.

  16. #16
    Harmonius Wrench
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    Just to add a data point: I have heard of one blue rear hub that needed grease changed outta the box. Apparently the grease was so sticky the pawls were hanging up. After the grease was changed, I was told the hub ran fine.
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  17. #17
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    Another victim.
    3rd ride on a Mukluk 2...and the coldest at 30 degrees.
    Got a few pops and then no engagement.
    Started walking....stopped in a sunny area to take a leak....and suddenly it started engaging....
    Kept the pedals tensioned all the way back to the car...
    Last edited by the mayor; 12-24-2011 at 02:42 PM.

  18. #18
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    Not cool. Sorry you had that experience.

  19. #19
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    fix it before it breaks

    In AK most of our Muks are ridden on snow in sub freezing temps. We winterize the hubs on the Muk 2 and 3, (they are different designs). It is not that difficult to do and sure saves on headaches down the road. If you have or are purchasing a new Mukluk I would ask to have this done if you ride in cold weather. Don't expect your local shop to do it for free but if you bring them a 6-pack it would probably help.

  20. #20
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    I just did it myself...literally at 1/2 hour job from beginning to end....including drinking beer and farting around.

  21. #21
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    fyi....the grease in my hub was the consistency of stale cake frosting.
    This was at room temperature......2 of the pawls would would barely move...and 1 was stuck down.
    A quick clean up.....and some lighter grease...and it was fine on todays 28 degree ride.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickyB View Post
    Had my LBS pull two gears (11 tooth and 13 tooth) off my cassette and re-space the cassette away from the hub. I now run a 7 speed with a better chain line, and those were two gears I never used. Chain rub is all gone as well.
    How did they "pull off" those two gears? Do you mean you got a new 7 speed cassette? What kind did you get? As I am not happy with the chain line, I think I might like to do the same thing.

  23. #23
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    Those two gears are not part of the cassette, they thread on to the cassette body. The LBS then added spacers behind the cassette pushing it away from the center of the wheel, adjusted the X9 rear derailleur so it wasn't jumping the chain over the 34 tooth gear, and all is good. It will work, just takes a little bit of tinkering on the part of your mechanic. Not only is the chain no longer slapping against the tire, when I'm in the low gears, the chain isn't bending back as much, giving me a straighter chain line. Win - win all around.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by juram View Post
    How did they "pull off" those two gears? Do you mean you got a new 7 speed cassette? What kind did you get? As I am not happy with the chain line, I think I might like to do the same thing.
    My bad, posted a response in the wrong part of the thread, so to reiterate...

    Those two gears are not part of the cassette, they thread on to the cassette body. The LBS then added spacers behind the cassette pushing it away from the center of the wheel, adjusted the X9 rear derailleur so it wasn't jumping the chain over the 34 tooth gear, and all is good. It will work, just takes a little bit of tinkering on the part of your mechanic. Not only is the chain no longer slapping against the tire, when I'm in the low gears, the chain isn't bending back as much, giving me a straighter chain line. Win - win all around.

  25. #25
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    I have an 8 speed cassette so I can only move over one spot. I wonder if it would even be worth it or should I switch to a 7 speed cassette. Like you, I never use those cogs anyway.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by juram View Post
    I have an 8 speed cassette so I can only move over one spot. I wonder if it would even be worth it or should I switch to a 7 speed cassette. Like you, I never use those cogs anyway.
    I took the standard 9 speed HG 50 Shimano cassette that came on the Muk2 and made it a 7 speed, and I'm using the the SRAM X9 grip shifts, I'm just aware of what gear I'm in. If you have that cassette you shouldn't need to put a new one on, it should come apart when you take it off. Either way, moving it over even one cog will help the chainline, and should eliminate any chain slap you may be getting.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickyB View Post
    My bad, posted a response in the wrong part of the thread, so to reiterate...

    Those two gears are not part of the cassette, they thread on to the cassette body. The LBS then added spacers behind the cassette pushing it away from the center of the wheel, adjusted the X9 rear derailleur so it wasn't jumping the chain over the 34 tooth gear, and all is good. It will work, just takes a little bit of tinkering on the part of your mechanic. Not only is the chain no longer slapping against the tire, when I'm in the low gears, the chain isn't bending back as much, giving me a straighter chain line. Win - win all around.
    All the cogs are part of the cassette. Just that the smallest 2-3 are not attached to rest, whether the larger cogs are on an alloy carrier spider (high-end models) or individual cogs pinned together (mid/low-end versions).

    If you have the later, you can remove the pins and use whichever cogs you want. Using loose cogs is not an issue on steel FH bodies.

    And cogs have not threaded onto FH bodies since 6-sp (and maybe 7-sp) cassettes. All 8/9/10-sp cassettes use separate lock rings
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickyB View Post
    I took the standard 9 speed HG 50 Shimano cassette that came on the Muk2 and made it a 7 speed, and I'm using the the SRAM X9 grip shifts, I'm just aware of what gear I'm in. If you have that cassette you shouldn't need to put a new one on, it should come apart when you take it off. Either way, moving it over even one cog will help the chainline, and should eliminate any chain slap you may be getting.
    I made my Muk 3 an 8 speed doing the same thing... The chain just lightly brushes the tire sidewall in the 22x34, which I find acceptable most of the time. If it's muddy, I avoid that gear.

    Truncated cassettes are no big deal on a fatbike...

    Oh, and the rear hub on my Muk 3 has been good to go, though it's seen limited cold weather use, as here in Nebraska, we're seeing amazingly warm temps for late-December. I'm not complaining, but something about ushering in the new year with a 60 degree day seems quite wrong (at least around here it does)! LOL!!
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  29. #29
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    Replacing the grease looks ridiculously easy. I might even be able to handle it! Thanks for the video. I have actually ridden in twenty degree or so weather, and have been fine with my Muk 2. Something to keep an eye on though.

  30. #30
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    Is the Morningstar grease good for winter duty only, or is it good year round? I am in Ohio, and we can go from 0 to 95 degrees throughout the year.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by gfs69 View Post
    Is the Morningstar grease good for winter duty only, or is it good year round? I am in Ohio, and we can go from 0 to 95 degrees throughout the year.
    -50 to 140+

  32. #32
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    Mornignstar "Soup" was originally developed for use as a lube on satellites...Paul Morningstar is quite literally a rocket scientist...
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmucker View Post
    -50 to 140+
    Thank you.

  34. #34
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    Anyone used Finish Line Teflon grease? I have a tube and I saw one site list it as rated to -65F, but I have not yet been able to verify that from either someone's experience or the Finish Line site itself. I don't know enough about lubes to be able to read the spec sheet and understand what all the values mean.

  35. #35
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    If you are referring to the Finish Line Extreme Flouro - several of us at Salsa are currently testing it, but without enough time or cold weather yet to fully recommend it.

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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by chequamagon View Post
    If you are referring to the Finish Line Extreme Flouro - several of us at Salsa are currently testing it, but without enough time or cold weather yet to fully recommend it.
    So is Salsa going to send out small packets of the right grease for our hubs?

  37. #37
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    Would be nice...since we dropped a lot of dough for a "snow bike" that you can't use in the snow without modification. I think they should.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by chequamagon View Post
    If you are referring to the Finish Line Extreme Flouro - several of us at Salsa are currently testing it, but without enough time or cold weather yet to fully recommend it.
    This is the one I have (https://www.finishlineusa.com/produc...d-grease.htm):



    It looks to be the same basic formula as this "Severe Service Grease" from Dupont: DuPont? Teflon? Greases which has a rating on dupont's site to -40F/C

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by juram View Post
    Would be nice...since we dropped a lot of dough for a "snow bike" that you can't use in the snow without modification. I think they should.
    I never had issues with my hub until it dropped below -25F. This is not *normal* riding conditions, even for a snow bike. If you're going to be out in that kind of weather or conditions for an extended period of time, its in your own best interest to make sure you have the bike (or any equipment you rely on) in proper working order - assuming the factory to do it for you is not really a good idea when your life might be on the line.

  40. #40
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    I used Mobil 1 75W-90 gear lube.
    I use it in Zipp hubs on the road and cyclocross...I put 4k miles on one hub this year.
    Been using it for years.

  41. #41
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    I got around to replacing the grease in my Salsa 170 mm hub and found that one of three pawls was installed upside down! I only had two working pawls.

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