Salsa Cycles - "They're kind of a big deal. New fat fun coming July 24."- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Salsa Cycles - "They're kind of a big deal. New fat fun coming July 24."

    Any guesses? Desires? Wishes?

  2. #2
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    I'm betting a new 201.3729mm wheel spacing...it will be a game changer.
    And mounts for all kinds of frame bags.

  3. #3
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    PLEASE GOD let it be a FS BUCKSAW with at least 130mm travel. 150 mm preferred. I will order it on the spot!

    EDIT: And where did you see this announcement? I just checked their website and didn't see it.

    EDIT 2: Never-mind, see it on their facebook page
    2018 Trek Farley Ex 8 - One bike to rule them all!
    2015 Salsa Bucksaw 2 - Also pretty frickiní sweet!

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    Quote Originally Posted by roughster View Post
    PLEASE GOD let it be a FS BUCKSAW with at least 130mm travel. 150 mm preferred. I will order it on the spot!

    EDIT: And where did you see this announcement? I just checked their website and didn't see it.

    EDIT 2: Never-mind, see it on their facebook page
    A few requests for a new Bucksaw on their Bookface page, maybe a BFat 120mm version with more mounts for bike packing?
    '18 Norco Ithaqua SL
    '16 Salsa Bucksaw GX1
    '14 Salsa Mukluk 2

  5. #5
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    29 Fat.

    If not, whatever it is, is about as exciting as watching slime molds grow on bathroom stall walls at quarter speed.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by the mayor View Post
    I'm betting a new 201.3729mm wheel spacing...it will be a game changer.
    And mounts for all kinds of frame bags.
    If it isn't at least 201.4642mm, there's no point.
    Crazy on this ship of fools...

  7. #7
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    Fat gravel bike.
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    They will offer an E version of the Blackborrow.

  9. #9
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    After the Jay P. thing - who cares.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by letitsnow View Post
    After the Jay P. thing - who cares.
    He made questionable public comments that made him look like a bit of an asshat, bringing Salsa's name into disrepute. If it was my company, I'd have walked away too... but lets keep this thread onto what the new bikes may be!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoreskillz View Post
    Any guesses? Desires? Wishes?
    I'd love an updated Ti Mukluk....

  12. #12
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    No bucksaw...

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying_Scotsman View Post
    He made questionable public comments that made him look like a bit of an asshat, bringing Salsa's name into disrepute. If it was my company, I'd have walked away too... but lets keep this thread onto what the new bikes may be!

    They enabled it for years, even encouraged it. Apparently cheating is fine but misogyny is not.

    The only reason they finally binned him is they couldn't sweep it under the rug the way they had his other transgressions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    They enabled it for years, even encouraged it. Apparently cheating is fine but misogyny is not.

    The only reason they finally binned him is they couldn't sweep it under the rug the way they had his other transgressions.
    I thoroughly enjoyed reading your open letter to him from a few years ago!

    The guy has been touted as an endurance "puritan" by himself and his sponsors. Obviously not the case. Quite the opposite in fact...

  15. #15
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    JayP made me side with mikesee on something and that's unacceptable.
    You change your own flats? Support your LBS and pay them to instead.

  16. #16
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    Full suspension e-assist fat cargo bike.

  17. #17
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    I'm not saying that they should of shouldn't have gotten rid of him, just think that there was a less dramatic way to handle it.

    Like MC says - they enabled a certain behavior for a long time. All of a sudden they started going to church maybe? Don't care. Just not into the drama. There are other options out there.

  18. #18
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    Dumping Jay P was the right thing to do. Maybe they should have done it earlier, but better late than never.
    Safe riding,

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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volsung View Post
    JayP made me side with mikesee on something and that's unacceptable.

    Right?!

  20. #20
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    I've known of his cheating for years, I've had the opinion he's an asshole for years. That he was sponsored by Salsa didn't make me stop wanting to own Salsa's. It simply made him one more person I couldn't give two shits about the continued existence of. I rarely pay them (Salsa) any attention anymore though because its been years since they've produced a model that I've wanted to purchase.
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

  21. #21
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    No idea who the person in question is, or what they did, but a sponsored rider, much like any Khardashian, is someone I strive to not pay any mind to in the first place.

    As for Salsa, I know a few folks that have moved on from there, and if Bruce Gordons thoughts on Q and their purchase of the brand, bear any similarities to theirs, I shall continue to ignore their descent into corporate raiding hell, right alongside Trek, Specialized, and most of the rest of this nepotistic, tail eating industry.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    ...a sponsored rider, much like any Khardashian, is someone I strive to not pay any mind to in the first place.
    BONUS POINTS for spelling Kardooshian improperly... #thumbup

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying_Scotsman View Post
    I'd love an updated Ti Mukluk....
    Ti Mukluk was the best fat bike they ever produced IMO. Still riding my 2014. Only updates I'd like would be updated geo (able to handle 120-140mm suspension fork), rear through axle out of the box, internal dropper post port on the seat tube, 197 rear hub spacing and "strapless" frame bag mount bosses.

    But I'll keep running what I have cause it is still a beauty and going strong.

  24. #24
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    Full squish 29+ if they don't already have one (I don't follow them much anymore).

    No idea who that guy is above and all the drama?? What's the deal?

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    They have/had a 29+ squishy bike called the Deadwood.

    I'd like to see a 27.5x5.0 bike. 197 spacing, threaded BB, with trail geometry ~67 HTA, ~74 STA.
    Jason
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shark View Post
    Full squish 29+ if they don't already have one (I don't follow them much anymore).

    No idea who that guy is above and all the drama?? What's the deal?

    You're much better off not knowing or caring.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    They enabled it for years, even encouraged it. Apparently cheating is fine but misogyny is not.

    The only reason they finally binned him is they couldn't sweep it under the rug the way they had his other transgressions.
    45 Nrth dropped him as well.


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  28. #28
    All fat, all the time.
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    Perfect thanks
    I rode my bike today, and I will tomorrow, I guess that's really all that matters right?

  29. #29
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    If I did, it only goes to show how little I care, I didn't even spell check it as that would be giving them more of my time than I wanted to...
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    I shall continue to ignore their descent into corporate raiding hell, right alongside Trek, Specialized, and most of the rest of this nepotistic, tail eating industry.
    Please point out on the doll where these companies hurt you?

    Jeepers..."get off my lawn" points are high.

  31. #31
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    Prediction: it'll be made out of potmetal and I'll therefore continue to be a fan of their sister brand.

  32. #32
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    Carbon frame Blackborrow with bigger B fat wheels

  33. #33
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    Patiently waiting, but haven't seen any updates/press releases/etc yet. What time zone are they going to release this info on!
    FATTrailer for the kiddo, As Seen on the blue/green trails around Grand Junction now.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
    Please point out on the doll where these companies hurt you?

    Jeepers..."get off my lawn" points are high.
    Pretty simple. Prices have been pushed through the roof by these brands and others. This hurts you, the end user. If that's not a problem for you, well cool, glad you're that well off that $15K for a bike that was $6K, 10 years ago, (and does nothing truly better if we're being honest) doesn't insult your intelligence.

    Additionally, they're doing their best to cut bike shops out of the consumer equation in order to maximize profits for themselves. For some consumers, that's fine, for others who may be less mechanically inclined though, shops serve a valuable function. That they're doing it to their bigger accounts too though, and trying to pass it off as "helping them" is gross.

    Trek in particular, but Giant is getting there too. Specialized has just turned into a corporate bully who feels their sh*t doesn't stink, and if that's cool with you, I don't know what to tell you.

    Go, talk to a dealer who's had to take a now used or a month or so, consumer direct Trek bike back that they never sold, and give the customer which isn't theirs, a full refund, how they feel about that. Or how they feel about taking delivery on accessories directly sold, for customer pick up, that they get a minimal share of the profits on, but have to spend employee time helping the customer fit on their bike, car or person. Maybe free delivery within 50 miles, on consumer direct Treks that that dealer didn't sell, or profit on, bothers you? How about the profits they do get off those sales, being less than had they made the sale themselves, and is only applied to their existing bill with Trek, rather than a check, and is done quarterly, so not only is it less, it's delayed.

    So not only am I looking out for my livelihood, I'm also concerned that by forcing everyone into their preferred business model, they will in fact, hurt cycling as a whole, which, is struggling as it is.

    If you're not upset, you're simply not paying attention, or really don't give a hoot about anyone but yourself.

    To slightly paraphrase Mikesee, this industry needs an enema.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

    It's not just Trek, but...

    ...what he said.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  36. #36
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    Holy cow new colors
    You change your own flats? Support your LBS and pay them to instead.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volsung View Post
    Holy cow new colors
    Drum roll..... New paint and higher prices..... That's kind of a big deal!!!

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volsung View Post
    Holy cow new colors
    It's a LOT more than just new colors!
    it's new color WAYS!
    This will change everything in the world of fat biking!
    Guy! Why do you not read the masterfully crafted marketing that the hard working guys in marketing wrote????

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobShort View Post
    Drum roll..... New paint and higher prices..... That's kind of a big deal!!!
    You have read the marketing release and you get it!
    But you left out that they now have 3 categories: Exploration machines, race machines and get lost machines!
    So many machines.
    But you definately need 3 machines.....

  40. #40
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    Ptssssss...air gone out of hype balloon.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    Ptssssss...air gone out of hype balloon.
    i forgot about about this... saw the Salsa link, clicked...

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  42. #42
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    Salsa: "Underwhelming customers consistently since Ross Shafer cashed the check".

  43. #43
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    No Bucksaw ........
    Life IS a Beach and then you Corrode :)

  44. #44
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    Disclaimer: I run Regular Cycles (as of 2016). As a profiteer of the bicycle industry, I am not to be taken very seriously.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by the mayor View Post
    You have read the marketing release and you get it!........
    Not much to have to "interpret." I just got an email that actually starts out with the following words:

    "Welcome the newest colors and specs in Salsaís fat bike lineup, ready to take you to the far-off places you can only imagine (and look good doing it)."
    We still hang bike thieves in Wyoming [Pedal House]

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Diller View Post
    You couldn't handle being a Mantis Shrimp!
    You just couldn't even.....

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    ....this industry needs an enema.
    Yep

    Also a couple of new bike segment , 3 new rear axle width , a new "offset" standard , new headset size , new thru axle diameter , new seat attachment , and , most importantly , 3 or 4 new wheel sizes.
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Pretty simple. Prices have been pushed through the roof by these brands and others. This hurts you, the end user. If that's not a problem for you, well cool, glad you're that well off that $15K for a bike that was $6K, 10 years ago, (and does nothing truly better if we're being honest) doesn't insult your intelligence.

    Additionally, they're doing their best to cut bike shops out of the consumer equation in order to maximize profits for themselves. For some consumers, that's fine, for others who may be less mechanically inclined though, shops serve a valuable function. That they're doing it to their bigger accounts too though, and trying to pass it off as "helping them" is gross.

    Trek in particular, but Giant is getting there too. Specialized has just turned into a corporate bully who feels their sh*t doesn't stink, and if that's cool with you, I don't know what to tell you.

    Go, talk to a dealer who's had to take a now used or a month or so, consumer direct Trek bike back that they never sold, and give the customer which isn't theirs, a full refund, how they feel about that. Or how they feel about taking delivery on accessories directly sold, for customer pick up, that they get a minimal share of the profits on, but have to spend employee time helping the customer fit on their bike, car or person. Maybe free delivery within 50 miles, on consumer direct Treks that that dealer didn't sell, or profit on, bothers you? How about the profits they do get off those sales, being less than had they made the sale themselves, and is only applied to their existing bill with Trek, rather than a check, and is done quarterly, so not only is it less, it's delayed.

    So not only am I looking out for my livelihood, I'm also concerned that by forcing everyone into their preferred business model, they will in fact, hurt cycling as a whole, which, is struggling as it is.

    If you're not upset, you're simply not paying attention, or really don't give a hoot about anyone but yourself.

    To slightly paraphrase Mikesee, this industry needs an enema.
    While I am aware that you can buy Treks DTC, I donít see where Salsa Bike can be purchased without a dealer. Granted, it likely sucks to compete with REI on any level.

    I will say that the vast majority of my significant outdoor gear purchase are from DTC brands, including snowboards, backpacks, tents/shelters, bikepacking bags etc, though I have bought all of my bikes, including 3 Salsas from shops.

  49. #49
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    Could we please get back on topic? New. Colors.
    You change your own flats? Support your LBS and pay them to instead.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by the mayor View Post
    Guy! Why do you not read the masterfully crafted marketing that the hard working guys in marketing wrote????
    I read an editorial by a food critic in the Washington Post a week or so ago which applies across many industries. He was talking how/why the restaurant industry is hurting. One of his points was that nobody cares about the marketing hype "farm to table" "hand curated" "artisanal" nature of the menu anymore. The consumer expects that, now do something original. Make the same old slop again and again, resting on your laurels and the consumer will leave.



    Big picture, maybe this is what we wanted, no new standards. So they just gave us the same old thing with new paint.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Salsa: "Underwhelming customers consistently since Ross Shafer cashed the check".
    Such a good ref.
    Working to stomp out redundancy, I repeat, working to stomp out redundancy.

  52. #52
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    Epic!!










    Fail....

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by bme107 View Post
    I read an editorial by a food critic in the Washington Post a week or so ago which applies across many industries. He was talking how/why the restaurant industry is hurting. One of his points was that nobody cares about the marketing hype "farm to table" "hand curated" "artisanal" nature of the menu anymore. The consumer expects that, now do something original. Make the same old slop again and again, resting on your laurels and the consumer will leave.



    Big picture, maybe this is what we wanted, no new standards. So they just gave us the same old thing with new paint.
    That's not a new idea, I've been saying for years:

    The only constant in business is change. Unless you truly exist in a niche, you constantly need to be figuring out new markets, making new processes, figuring out how to do it more efficiently, quicker, better, etc. Far more businesses *think* they exist in a niche and then they are left wondering what happened when someone came along that beat them at their own game. THAT is the nature of capitalism and the idea is that in the ashes of the fallen, something better and more competitive can rise up. This isn't all good, it means that factory workers and others may not be able to crank out widgets indefinitely, it means that you can't just sit around doing the same thing forever. To those seeking stability, pensions, retirement, it may be bad. That said, this is one of the biggest failings I see with bike shops, they want to sell lots of high-end bikes, but that's not a reality much of the time. To truly be successful, they have to reach out, try to get involved in other markets, promote events, do trailbuilding events, put on races-if just grassroots, do clinics on repair and basic skills, shop BBQs, and so on. Maybe they do exist in a niche where they can sell high end bikes to customers of significant means, but the least successful shops appear to have closed themselves off to the community, whereas the most successful seem to be constantly reaching out.

    I didn't intend to make this just about bike shops, but my point is that someone will always come along doing what you do, but better, faster, quicker, cheaper, more efficiently, etc. You can let it happen and then be left wondering about the brick wall that you ran into, or you can actively be the one that is being successful. It's hard ****ing work and not for the faint of heart.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  54. #54
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    Oh good...another model year of Salsa fat bikes I have no interest in purchasing. As a canadian, who already is stuck paying import duties twice with Salsa...for less than the price of the Mukluk carbon frame/fork set, I could get a RSD Mayor V4 Titanium frame / carbon fork set. The RSD also has better tire clearance and doesn't weigh that much more for what is going to be a much more durable frame for "exploration" on.
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

  55. #55
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    Whatever it is, it's certainly going to be hideous. Seriously... WHY are all of their bikes so damn ugly?
    If they manage to make a decent looking frame they put an ugly paint job on it.
    I like turtles

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYrr496 View Post
    Whatever it is, it's certainly going to be hideous. Seriously... WHY are all of their bikes so damn ugly?
    If they manage to make a decent looking frame they put an ugly paint job on it.
    Those are not paint jobs.
    They are colorways!
    Now....don't they look so much better?

    The marketing guys at Salsa worked very hard with this marketing campaign. ....and they did get people talking about the same old bikes at higher prices as a "kind of a big deal".

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Pretty simple. Prices have been pushed through the roof by these brands and others. This hurts you, the end user. If that's not a problem for you, well cool, glad you're that well off that $15K for a bike that was $6K, 10 years ago, (and does nothing truly better if we're being honest) doesn't insult your intelligence.
    They have? It has? On average I can buy a Trek, Specialized, Giant, Cannondale bike cheaper than the boutique brands with similar components. Yeti comes to mind...they are nuts what they want for a bike.

    Additionally, they're doing their best to cut bike shops out of the consumer equation in order to maximize profits for themselves. For some consumers, that's fine, for others who may be less mechanically inclined though, shops serve a valuable function. That they're doing it to their bigger accounts too though, and trying to pass it off as "helping them" is gross.

    Trek in particular, but Giant is getting there too. Specialized has just turned into a corporate bully who feels their sh*t doesn't stink, and if that's cool with you, I don't know what to tell you.

    Go, talk to a dealer who's had to take a now used or a month or so, consumer direct Trek bike back that they never sold, and give the customer which isn't theirs, a full refund, how they feel about that. Or how they feel about taking delivery on accessories directly sold, for customer pick up, that they get a minimal share of the profits on, but have to spend employee time helping the customer fit on their bike, car or person. Maybe free delivery within 50 miles, on consumer direct Treks that that dealer didn't sell, or profit on, bothers you? How about the profits they do get off those sales, being less than had they made the sale themselves, and is only applied to their existing bill with Trek, rather than a check, and is done quarterly, so not only is it less, it's delayed.
    Welcome to the 21st century and the age of the internet. People do business differently these days. You either lead, follow or fall behind. You want to fall behind? Go ahead and stay stuck in your old ways and you will soon be closing your doors. Hell...I have Amazon packages show up weekly at my house for items I used to go to the store for. Much easier and often much cheaper...don't have to go to the store and deal with people, stand in lines and wear and tear on my car for round trip.

    So not only am I looking out for my livelihood, I'm also concerned that by forcing everyone into their preferred business model, they will in fact, hurt cycling as a whole, which, is struggling as it is.

    If you're not upset, you're simply not paying attention, or really don't give a hoot about anyone but yourself.

    To slightly paraphrase Mikesee, this industry needs an enema.
    I'm not upset about bikes and the bike industry. Don't get my underwear in a bunch about such stuff.

    The one and only thing that irks me about the bike industry is that the bike shops never seem to have a good inventory of all of the models and sizes to try out. Many times I've gone into the bike shop and asked "Do you have X bike in size medium that I can try out?" "No but if you'd like we can order one for you." Why the F*** would I want them to order something I may not like? It would be like going to the car dealer and they never have the model of car you would like to test drive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 101 View Post
    While I am aware that you can buy Treks DTC, I donít see where Salsa Bike can be purchased without a dealer. Granted, it likely sucks to compete with REI on any level.

    I will say that the vast majority of my significant outdoor gear purchase are from DTC brands, including snowboards, backpacks, tents/shelters, bikepacking bags etc, though I have bought all of my bikes, including 3 Salsas from shops.
    Trek isn't DTC. You order the bike online and have to pick up at the local bike shop. Same goes for Giant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
    The one and only thing that irks me about the bike industry is that the bike shops never seem to have a good inventory of all of the models and sizes to try out.

    Sounds like you fail to understand the basic concept of compromise. With very few exceptions, no shop can afford to carry every model in every size and color (referring not only to bikes, but to helmets, shoes, shorts, packs, tires, etc...). Just not feasible for reasons of floor space as well as overhead.

    Shops make a gamble based on some intersection of what they think the public will want as well as what they can comfortably carry without losing their shirt if it all goes sideways.

    Do I blame John Q. Public for shopping online? Nope. Do I blame John Q. Public for defaulting to Amazon and thus creating a trade imbalance that tariffs won't solve and that is slowly killing local shops of every flavor? You bet I do.

    One can only be shortsighted for so long before things catch up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Sounds like you fail to understand the basic concept of compromise. With very few exceptions, no shop can afford to carry every model in every size and color (referring not only to bikes, but to helmets, shoes, shorts, packs, tires, etc...). Just not feasible for reasons of floor space as well as overhead.

    Shops make a gamble based on some intersection of what they think the public will want as well as what they can comfortably carry without losing their shirt if it all goes sideways.

    Do I blame John Q. Public for shopping online? Nope. Do I blame John Q. Public for defaulting to Amazon and thus creating a trade imbalance that tariffs won't solve and that is slowly killing local shops of every flavor? You bet I do.

    One can only be shortsighted for so long before things catch up.
    I don't claim to be a businessman by any means and I'm not exactly sure how the chain works from manufacturer to bike shop. But in my mind, the bike manufacturer should "give" the bike shop the bikes to sell. When the shop sells a bike a portion of the sale stays with the bike shop and portion goes to the manufacturer. If there are left over bikes at the end of the model year then it should be up to the manufacturer to decide how they want to get rid of them. Either take them back and try to sell them elsewhere or tell the bike shop to discount them a certain percentage. I know it doesn't work that way and the shops have to purchase the bikes for their inventory. But it sucks not being to try before you buy.

    Helmets, shoes, shorts, packs...My local bike shop seems to carry all of the models and sizes in these items. Tires...very limited selection. But...those items are over priced at the shop anyway. So I always purchase those types of items online.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Sounds like you fail to understand the basic concept of compromise. With very few exceptions, no shop can afford to carry every model in every size and color (referring not only to bikes, but to helmets, shoes, shorts, packs, tires, etc...). Just not feasible for reasons of floor space as well as overhead.

    Shops make a gamble based on some intersection of what they think the public will want as well as what they can comfortably carry without losing their shirt if it all goes sideways.

    Do I blame John Q. Public for shopping online? Nope. Do I blame John Q. Public for defaulting to Amazon and thus creating a trade imbalance that tariffs won't solve and that is slowly killing local shops of every flavor? You bet I do.

    One can only be shortsighted for so long before things catch up.
    Very well said! Shops are gambling with every order they make and often they have to bend to the dealer-overlords that they carry, making it even harder as consumers do have so many options available.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Rides Bikes View Post
    Very well said! Shops are gambling with every order they make and often they have to bend to the dealer-overlords that they carry, making it even harder as consumers do have so many options available.
    Imagine going to the Ford dealer and shopping for a new car and being told...we don't have that model for you to try but we can order it in if you would like.

    Imagine going to the motorcycle dealer and shopping for a new motorcycle and being told...we don't have that model for you to try but we can order it in if you would like.

    Imagine going to the ATV dealer and shopping for a new ATV and being told...we don't have that model for you to try but we can order it in if you would like.

    Imagine going to the kayak dealer and shopping for a new kayak and being told...we don't have that model or length for you to try but we can order it in if you would like.

    If you fish...Imagine going to the fly shop dealer and shopping for a new fly rod and waders and being told...we don't have that model for you to try but we can order it in if you would like.

    I've purchased all of the above new from a dealer, with the exception of a motorbike, and they always had all of the models and sizes available to try at the dealers I've been to. Bike industry/shops suck in this regard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
    Imagine going to the Ford dealer and shopping for a new car and being told...we don't have that model for you to try but we can order it in if you would like.
    Happened to me. I had to order my truck sight unseen since it wasn't a popular configuration. I was able to test a different version.

    Quote Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
    Imagine going to the motorcycle dealer and shopping for a new motorcycle and being told...we don't have that model for you to try but we can order it in if you would like.
    This has happened to me multiple times.

    Quote Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
    Imagine going to the kayak dealer and shopping for a new kayak and being told...we don't have that model or length for you to try but we can order it in if you would like.
    This has happened to me multiple times.

    Quote Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
    If you fish...Imagine going to the fly shop dealer and shopping for a new fly rod and waders and being told...we don't have that model for you to try but we can order it in if you would like.
    This has happened to me multiple times.

    I was going to say I've never had that issue with ATVs because I have no interest in them, but now I recall I had to buy one for a work project years ago and you guessed it they didn't have any in stock so we bought the one we wanted sight unseen based on cataolgue specs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
    Imagine going to the Ford dealer and shopping for a new car and being told...we don't have that model for you to try but we can order it in if you would like.

    Imagine going to the motorcycle dealer and shopping for a new motorcycle and being told...we don't have that model for you to try but we can order it in if you would like.

    Imagine going to the ATV dealer and shopping for a new ATV and being told...we don't have that model for you to try but we can order it in if you would like.

    Imagine going to the kayak dealer and shopping for a new kayak and being told...we don't have that model or length for you to try but we can order it in if you would like.

    If you fish...Imagine going to the fly shop dealer and shopping for a new fly rod and waders and being told...we don't have that model for you to try but we can order it in if you would like.

    I've purchased all of the above new from a dealer, with the exception of a motorbike, and they always had all of the models and sizes available to try at the dealers I've been to. Bike industry/shops suck in this regard.
    I have had this happen, not specifically for those things, but enough of them. You know what, I can wait, it won't kill me. Sometimes it is better to sleep on it and realize that I don't need some of those things or I can do with "not exactly what I want". I'm not spoiled and appreciate the things I have, even more when I've had to wait for them, or have taken the time and energy to take something that was "ok" and customize it to suit my needs.
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  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
    Trek isn't DTC. You order the bike online and have to pick up at the local bike shop. Same goes for Giant.
    Worth noting, the "deal" on the dealers end is reduced in many ways, it's not just Trelk/Giant, shipping out the bike you want to a friendly dealer, and the dealer gets the same margins etc. They also have to pay a mechanic to build it still, despite making less on it.

    They get less money, by a fair bit. They also are compelled to deliver it free if the customer wants it (Trek, not sure about Giant).

    Customer picks their own model, size, everything. Which may be spot on, but may be WAY off too, for any number of reasons.

    Either way, if the bike doesn't suit their needs after riding, it goes to the dealer, they issue a full refund (losing that money right out of their bank account), and have to eat the used bike till it sells at a now used bike, price. They do not get a refund, they get a credit on what they already owe the brand, months later to boot.

    I said this all already, but it bears repeating, not because it will change any minds necessarily, but because the brand would have you think they were "helping the dealers" if asked.

    Without all the pocket lining shenanigans, if Trek allowed it, but gave the dealer all the same profit, and refunded the customer or dealer directly, and in full, on the spot, it'd be a more palatable change within the industry.

    YMMV.
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  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
    They have? It has?
    Look, I'll be fair and up front, it sounds like you aren't in the industry, nor do you run a business. All well and good, I know nothing about whatever it is, you do, too. Thing is, I don't go around berating you when I know very little about what I'm talking about....

    Your description of brands giving shops product and then swapping out etc? That's fantastic, if you ask dealers for a dream list, but in reality, it is SO far from the truth.

    No, you're required to buy it all, 6 + months, prior to the season, hoping you know what's actually hot this year (which no changes weekly anyway). Then make sure you have all the right sizes, colors, models, etc, for what each potential customer, might potentially want, if they potentially come in to your shop.

    All that inventory you gambled on? You OWN it. Except you don't. You bought it, but dealership agreements strictly limit what you can sell it for, where you can sell it, etc, years after you bought it, even.


    Other shops near me have closed due to getting buried in inventory, since all brands expect you to buy more this year, than last. Do that for a year or two, have a slow start to the Spring, and bam, you're sitting on $250K in old inventory, that you're not "free" to do what you want with, but boy, they will be ready for your next order.

    Gotta say, I love you summation of my shop, observations, and business practices. I just wish for your sake, it were true, and I was cluelessly avoiding the coming tide. Truth be told, I have lots of conversations with smaller brands trying to grow, and use consumer direct. I have no issue with it, when it's done well, with an eye towards helping the industry as a whole, rather than a money grab.

    I'm doing okay, I'm small, and fast on my feet and actually rely rather heavily on the web for a lot of my business, I don't hate on line shopping. I'm adapting trust me.

    It in no way makes me just accept these things without trying to educate consumers, because frankly, many of my customers prefer the value I and other shops, bring them, so things that affect us, affect them too. Mid sized shops are closing all over the US due to this sort of thing. Some "deserve it" due to poor service, crummy staff, bad management, shady business practices, whatever. Many are great at what they do, and just can't keep growing like the brand/overlord wants them to, and the crumble.

    Sink or swim is all well and good, but only if there isn't someone at the edge of the water throwing more rocks into the basket you're carrying while you tread water....
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    Quote Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
    I don't claim to be a businessman by any means and I'm not exactly sure how the chain works from manufacturer to bike shop. But in my mind, the bike manufacturer should "give" the bike shop the bikes to sell. When the shop sells a bike a portion blah blah blah
    How old are you and what do you do for a living????
    You don't have the tiniest grasp of how basic business and commerce works, especially in the bike industry ( and the auto and moto industry).....yet you type away.....

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by the mayor View Post
    How old are you and what do you do for a living????
    You don't have the tiniest grasp of how basic business and commerce works, especially in the bike industry ( and the auto and moto industry).....yet you type away.....
    Appears you and a few others might have missed or were not capable of comprehending prj71's statement claiming industry/business ignorance. He generally seems like a decent person. Maybe I missed something.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyriverag View Post
    Appears you and a few others might have missed or were not capable of comprehending prj71's statement claiming industry/business ignorance. He generally seems like a decent person. Maybe I missed something.
    He may be a generally decent person....I have no idea.

    The only thing I fail to comprehend here is how someone who has more than a 1st grade education doesn't understand how basic business works.

    Manufacturers only make so much of each product, stores only buy and stock so much of that product. And when it's gone, it's gone....

    That goes for bikes, cars, kayaks ....or a loaf of bread....

    No rocket surgery is going on here.

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    Hey, I clicked here tryna to see something cool from Salsa. You bike shop folks should understand the context of this thread. People who ride bikes and maybe occasionally buy one aren't obliged to be invested in the workings of the industry. Nor should you expect us consumers to know or care how crappy the bike industry is. Let us just enjoy some new paint schemes. Put the complaining and haughty attitude somewhere else. Maybe a shop owner complaining thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Traktor View Post
    Hey, I clicked here tryna to see something cool from Salsa. You bike shop folks should understand the context of this thread. People who ride bikes and maybe occasionally buy one aren't obliged to be invested in the workings of the industry. Nor should you expect us consumers to know or care how crappy the bike industry is. Let us just enjoy some new paint schemes. Put the complaining and haughty attitude somewhere else. Maybe a shop owner complaining thread.

    when I worry about how my consumer habits are affecting the world, I focus my worry on my consumption of meat.
    doesn't take much to figure out that there's not really anything cool from Salsa. Overhyped yawnfest. With ugly-ass paint to boot.

    Don't get me wrong. I own 2 Salsas and I like them. But nothing they've introduced since I've bought them has generated much interest from me. It seems that shortly after I bought mine is when they started using ugly-ass paint, too. I like solid colors and simple, understated graphics. I'm okay with bright colors, but only in solids. Anything else is gross. Honestly when I saw the paint I closed Salsa's website and didn't bother with anything else. Didn't even look at the price. I wouldn't buy a bike with those paint jobs at any price.

    The rants about the cycling industry? Maybe not precisely relevant to Salsa's new bikes, but generally speaking, absolutely. They're not wrong. I spent enough years working retail that I definitely have seen the problems they're talking about here, among others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Traktor View Post
    People who ride bikes and maybe occasionally buy one aren't obliged to be invested in the workings of the industry. Nor should you expect us consumers to know or care how crappy the bike industry is.
    You may not give a $hit about the state of the bicycle industry and that's your prerogative, but MCS and Mike C have earned there right to speak about it when it comes up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    With ugly-ass paint to boot.
    It's not that it's ugly, it's just that it's not for me. I like solid colors and classic paint schemes. This is a bit too weird for me. However, I know a lot of people that are raving about these. They are unique for sure, and certainly a bold choice for Salsa to stick with. I think these designs are a bit more unisex and will potentially sway female riders away from the Specialized Helga and other "shrink and pink" women specific bikes. More people on bikes is always a good thing.
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  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traktor View Post
    Hey, I clicked here tryna to see something cool from Salsa. You bike shop folks should understand the context of this thread. People who ride bikes and maybe occasionally buy one aren't obliged to be invested in the workings of the industry. Nor should you expect us consumers to know or care how crappy the bike industry is. Let us just enjoy some new paint schemes. Put the complaining and haughty attitude somewhere else. Maybe a shop owner complaining thread.

    when I worry about how my consumer habits are affecting the world, I focus my worry on my consumption of meat.

    If you think it doesn't affect you, you didn't think about it enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Happened to me. I had to order my truck sight unseen since it wasn't a popular configuration. I was able to test a different version.
    You missed the point. Go to any car dealer and they will all have the models you want to try. They may not have the configuration you want such as heated seats or navigation etc. but they will carry every model on their lot. The bike shops should at minimum carry the all of the models and sizes in at least the aluminum versions of the bike. Not tell you "I don't have it, but I can order it for you"


    This has happened to me multiple times.



    This has happened to me multiple times.



    This has happened to me multiple times.

    I was going to say I've never had that issue with ATVs because I have no interest in them, but now I recall I had to buy one for a work project years ago and you guessed it they didn't have any in stock so we bought the one we wanted sight unseen based on cataolgue specs.
    Must be some poor dealers in your areas. I've done both kayak shopping and ATV shopping in my area and have shopped at various fly shops around the country for rods/reels etc. Dealers have always had all of the models and brands in stock for me to try.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Worth noting, the "deal" on the dealers end is reduced in many ways, it's not just Trelk/Giant, shipping out the bike you want to a friendly dealer, and the dealer gets the same margins etc. They also have to pay a mechanic to build it still, despite making less on it.
    They have to do that anyway even if a customer doesn't order a bike online and have it shipped to the dealer. Bikes arrive at dealer in a box and need to be put together whether the dealer ordered it or a customer orders it online.

    They get less money, by a fair bit. They also are compelled to deliver it free if the customer wants it (Trek, not sure about Giant).
    I have not heard of any dealers delivering bikes to the customers house. ???

    Either way, if the bike doesn't suit their needs after riding, it goes to the dealer, they issue a full refund (losing that money right out of their bank account), and have to eat the used bike till it sells at a now used bike, price.
    Can't say I've heard of anything like this happening. Although if it is, then its a good reason for the bike shops to carry all the models and sizes so the customer can "try before you buy"

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
    I have not heard of any dealers delivering bikes to the customers house. ???
    My local Trek dealer does this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
    Must be some poor dealers in your areas.
    That's great if it happened for you, but that's not everyone's experience. I don't live in a large population centre and I tend to be interested in less mainstream products. Getting told a dealer doesn't have something in stock, but can order it in is normal. I don't blame the dealer because I understand their situation and it's not feasible to carry stock of everything just in case someone comes in and wants to try it...and then ask them to order a different size and colour!

    The last bike I bought was from a company 2,500kms away. No local dealer and I had only seen a photo of the bike and read some reviews.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodney View Post
    My local Trek dealer does this.
    My LBS would make a house call if I really needed it. That is why I continue to spend my $$ in his shop. He even carries two of the terrible S brands. But he also found a way to get me a SC cuz that is what I wanted. Support your LBS. If you get crappy service, tell them. Give them a chance to make it right.

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    I'd like to see a fat bike Salsa Marrakesh. If not fat bike, version at least a plus tire(think at least 3in/~76mm).

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    So the original version of the Salsa Deadwood?

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    What does the original deadwood look like? Was that a bike packing bike too, case the new one is full suspension.

    Edit: Would this be it? If so, 100% yes. I saw one in orange earlier in the night and was really digging it. I think I found the next bike I will be saving for. Which years did it look like this, before they took it full suspension? Or a variant of the Fargo with a more Marrakesh rear end geometry and support for 2.7"+ tires would be cool too. The new Deadwood they have on their site looks to similar to the Bucksaw.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Funoutside View Post
    Which years did it look like this, before they took it full suspension? Or a variant of the Fargo with a more Marrakesh rear end geometry and support for 2.7"+ tires would be cool too. The new Deadwood they have on their site looks to similar to the Bucksaw.
    2016 was the year it was released I believe, but had low sales so they dropped/changed it pretty quickly
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  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
    They have to do that anyway even if a customer doesn't order a bike online and have it shipped to the dealer.




    I have not heard of any dealers delivering bikes to the customers house. ???

    Cool, doesn't make it any less true, and they are not paid for it, the brands just expect you to do it for free.



    Can't say I've heard of anything like this happening. Although if it is, then its a good reason for the bike shops to carry all the models and sizes so the customer can "try before you buy"
    True, but they are making far less margin on a customer ordered bike, than one sold off the floor. Add in the other factors (delivery, returns, how compensation occurs, etc), and it becomes an even less appetizing proposition, business wise.



    Cool, but it doesn't make it any less true, and they are not paid for it, the brands just expect you to deliver it for free. Time is money, gas isn't free, wear and tear on vehicles isn't free either.



    It sounds like you live in a very large, prosperous metropolitan area, all well and good. But it'd be a wise idea to stop thinking that what happens in your neck of the woods, is the normal for everyone. Quick count of Jamis models is low 30's.



    Models, not sub models.

    Many have at least 3 or 4 subs, so we'll call it an even 100 for figurings sake.

    Now add what, 3 to 4 sizes per bike, not to mention color options, male and female version too. Now we're at 500 plus Jamis bikes, to even come close to "carry all the models and sizes so the customer can "try before you buy"....

    With a baseline model still costing (wholesale) north of $300, and many costing many thousands at wholesale, and EACH YEAR, you're investing hundreds of thousands, just to appease your customers inability to decide between the $1000 model, and the $2000 one without having tried it in their size and color?



    Politely, I don't think you're really thinking through the real world implications of your ideas, but it's awesome that every dealer for every product, in your area, does this, I cannot fathom the amount of money required to do that, or the frustration when you give a company that much money, and they still completely control how, when, and for how much, you can get rid of their product so you can be ready to buy more next time the rep comes in.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redlands R&C View Post
    2016 was the year it was released I believe, but had low sales so they dropped/changed it pretty quickly
    Yeah saw on their site it was 2016 only. Now to figure out where to find one, or something like it if salsa doesn't bring out 2020 variant of it.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Quick count of Jamis models is low 30's.

    Models, not sub models.

    Many have at least 3 or 4 subs, so we'll call it an even 100 for figurings sake.

    Now add what, 3 to 4 sizes per bike, not to mention color options, male and female version too. Now we're at 500 plus Jamis bikes, to even come close to "carry all the models and sizes so the customer can "try before you buy"....

    With a baseline model still costing (wholesale) north of $300, and many costing many thousands at wholesale, and EACH YEAR, you're investing hundreds of thousands, just to appease your customers inability to decide between the $1000 model, and the $2000 one without having tried it in their size and color?

    Politely, I don't think you're really thinking through the real world implications of your ideas, but it's awesome that every dealer for every product, in your area, does this, I cannot fathom the amount of money required to do that, or the frustration when you give a company that much money, and they still completely control how, when, and for how much, you can get rid of their product so you can be ready to buy more next time the rep comes in.
    Having bikes to try (not buy) in every model/size is a basic human right. Your logic and facts are highly offensive.

  87. #87
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    MCS, I don't think you are going to get through. It sure sounds like he has a very definite idea of how the world works and is not willing to consider that it might not be so.
    Latitude 61

  88. #88
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    I hear ya. I just come from a long line of educators, so despite running a one man bike shop, I actually really enjoy helping folks understand things that they don't in the moment.

    I'll stop now. Back to hideous paint schemes.

    In all honesty though? I give them credit for simply applying new lipstick, rather than continuing to try and reinvent the wheel every single solitary season!!
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    I give them credit for simply applying new lipstick
    New lipstick works.
    Sometimes.
    Other times...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Salsa Cycles - "They're kind of a big deal. New fat fun coming July 24."-surprise-makeover.jpg  

    Crazy on this ship of fools...

  90. #90
    Hybrid Leftys aren't real Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by canoe View Post
    new lipstick works.
    Sometimes.
    Other times...
    ha!!!
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canoe View Post
    New lipstick works.
    Sometimes.
    Other times...
    Thank you sir...for returning some sanity to this thread.
    BTW...what shop were those monkey photos taken at? Did they have every make and model of monkeys on hand for you to try?

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