Rolling Darryl Spoke Tension- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Rolling Darryl Spoke Tension

    For those of you that built your own fat wheels with Rolling Darryls, what kind of spoke tensions did end up with??

    Anyone know if there is a recommended (or max) tension for Darryl?

    I'm using 2.0/1.8/2.0 DT spokes.

  2. #2
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    If you pm me you're email I will send you my spread sheet from a build.

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    Hey bdundee - I saw your reply in the other thread, thanks for the info. My wheel isn't typical; it's a symmetrical build around a 100mm XT front hub.

    I built the wheel by feel, then I checked the tensions... the disc side came out with quite a bit more tension than what you used (most disc side spokes are ~120kgf). The non-disc side is around 70 kgf.

    After seeing your numbers I'm wondering if the tight side is running too much tension.

    I emailed Surly to see if they had any recommended tensions for Darryl, but they didn't reply.
    Last edited by FTMN; 12-03-2011 at 09:16 AM.

  4. #4
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    I laced mine offset with My I9 hub
    two reasons
    first I could not get the brake rotor to clear the spokes
    second the dish is almost the same as a standard wheel build
    stock flange offset for my hub is 38.22 and 22.73 disk
    my build is (38.22-13) = 25.22 and (22.73+13) = 35.73

    My $.02
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlowerJoe View Post
    I laced mine offset with My I9 hub
    two reasons
    first I could not get the brake rotor to clear the spokes
    second the dish is almost the same as a standard wheel build
    stock flange offset for my hub is 38.22 and 22.73 disk
    my build is (38.22-13) = 25.22 and (22.73+13) = 35.73

    My $.02
    Sj
    What are the spoke tensions? What spokes?

  6. #6
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    120kgf = 1176 newtons. In a not very current Barnetts manual, 1100 newtons is suggested as a good general max tension. I judge relative to that number when a manufacturer is too lazy to publish a real spec for their rim. I think you'll be ok as is. I have never actually measured the tension on my Darryl as it seemed bomber to me a not super finicky about tension. To low a tension would probably be a bigger issue here.

  7. #7
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    I built mine light
    85 64
    I should have checked the tension on the black pugs at the shop
    might bring them higher but no more than 100 drive side
    I'm no expert in spoke tension but my flows I built lasted two years without any adjustment at 95...
    till I cut out the hubs for my fatbike

    Sj
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  8. #8
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    I know you didn't want them but here they are. Front 135 symetrical and rear 170mm. Maybe I run to low of tension maybe an expert will chime in.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by bdundee; 12-03-2011 at 12:35 PM.

  9. #9
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    FTMN have you recieved any info from Surly on this yet?

    Edit:I just recieved an email from a different manufacture of single wall rims and they suggested 15 on the Park tensiometer and not to exceed 17 on their rims.
    Last edited by bdundee; 12-06-2011 at 04:49 AM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    FTMN have you recieved any info from Surly on this yet?
    Nope.

    The shop I got it from recommended 110 kgf.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTMN View Post
    Nope.

    The shop I got it from recommended 110 kgf.
    That's odd Greg from Speedway recomends 15-17 on the Park Tool Tensiometer for his Uma 90's. That seems pretty low but his is the boss, on the other hand 110kgh seems a little high for the RD's

  12. #12
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    Any definitive word on spoke tension for the Darryls?

    I'm at around 15/16 on the Park table now. DT Comps, Surly New Hub, Holy Darryl. Wheel is trueish and roundish and I'm gonna bring them up a little higher.

    Thanks in advance!
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  13. #13
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    I just redished a front rim for a darryl set. Went to 150mm spacing, had to move front wheel 7.5mm offset.

    I got about 1mm away from dead-nuts center. Uneven spoke tension worried me. 1.75mm spokes:

    disc side: 70 kg average
    other: 120kg avergae

    Offset rim gives offset tension - but it was even-ish on each side.

    In case anyone is interested.


    Quote Originally Posted by appleSSeed View Post
    Any definitive word on spoke tension for the Darryls?

    I'm at around 15/16 on the Park table now. DT Comps, Surly New Hub, Holy Darryl. Wheel is trueish and roundish and I'm gonna bring them up a little higher.

    Thanks in advance!

  14. #14
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    I think 100kgf as an average is probably plenty on any of the modern singlewall rims. Kind of amazing how much they begin to distort above ~90kgf. 120kgf seems like a bad idea, in that a broken spoke for whatever reason starts to fall into the 'catastrophic failure' realm.

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    Thanks for feedback. Was not aware that was crazy-high.

    So, to properly dish - I can't seem to achieve the offset I need without this tension. What a low-acceptable on side opposite?


    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    I think 100kgf as an average is probably plenty on any of the modern singlewall rims. Kind of amazing how much they begin to distort above ~90kgf. 120kgf seems like a bad idea, in that a broken spoke for whatever reason starts to fall into the 'catastrophic failure' realm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maine_Rider View Post
    Thanks for feedback. Was not aware that was crazy-high.

    So, to properly dish - I can't seem to achieve the offset I need without this tension. What a low-acceptable on side opposite?

    My guess is that your short-side spokes are bottoming out as a result of how far you've had to pull the wheel over, and that's what's causing the issue.

    Scratching my head trying to figure out how a 150-spaced hub can have tensions so whacked side to side? Converted from 135?

  17. #17
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    Not bottomed out. Yes, converted from 135 and redished offset 7.5mm. I could back off tension and be less "centered". A few people noted in this thread had 120 kg tension in their build - which is what I was basing max tension on for this alteration.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Converted from 135?

  18. #18
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    Can you run all the spokes to the same side of the rim to even out the spoke tension? I have a set of Darryls laced to a modified XTR hubset and spoke tensions were better matched when I laced the rims offset away from the rotor on the front wheel and away from the cassette on the rear. It may take longer spokes on the disc side but might help with tension. Run it through Spocalc or freespoke to see if it works with your hub.
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  19. #19
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    So, I spent another hour un-tensioning the rim. In the end, I was about 2mm off exact center / dish. Final tensions reduced to 90 / 65 - came out very even. Park tension app is pretty cool, made this process pretty easy.

    I suspect the 2mm will not be significant - but probably noticeable visually.

    Thanks for the advice.

  20. #20
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    I don't have a tensiometer, but need to re-dish rear 100 mm carbon HED BFD toward drive-side about 4-5 mm to center it. It now sits only 1-2 mm from left chainsta on a Borealis Yampa (as it has since it came from HED).

    I already tightened driveside nipples ~3/4 turn, and loosened non-driveside ~1/4, but no noticeable difference.

    Quest: is it reasonably safe to turn each another full turn or maybe 1.5 - 2 turns on drive side and loosen a wee bit on non-driveside? I don't know how tight I can go with these 100 mm carbons - much more resistant to tweaking than aluminum/smaller width, of course.

    (I don't have time at this point to go to my LBS. thanks.)

  21. #21
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    IMHO - 2 turns can be a lot of tension increase - depending upon what tension you started with.

    In the end, I just accepted the minor offset of 2mm to limit max tension to reasonable levels.

    Flying blind.... not always the best option.


    Quote Originally Posted by rshalit View Post
    I don't have a tensiometer, but need to re-dish rear 100 mm carbon HED BFD toward drive-side about 4-5 mm to center it. It now sits only 1-2 mm from left chainsta on a Borealis Yampa (as it has since it came from HED).

    I already tightened driveside nipples ~3/4 turn, and loosened non-driveside ~1/4, but no noticeable difference.

    Quest: is it reasonably safe to turn each another full turn or maybe 1.5 - 2 turns on drive side and loosen a wee bit on non-driveside? I don't know how tight I can go with these 100 mm carbons - much more resistant to tweaking than aluminum/smaller width, of course.

    (I don't have time at this point to go to my LBS. thanks.)

  22. #22
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    with 1 or 2 mm clearance snow quickly packs between tire and stay and wears off side wall etc. so I would really like it centered -sometimes snow gets icy and and more abrasive thanks

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by rshalit View Post
    I don't have a tensiometer, but need to re-dish rear 100 mm carbon HED BFD toward drive-side about 4-5 mm to center it. It now sits only 1-2 mm from left chainsta on a Borealis Yampa (as it has since it came from HED).

    I already tightened driveside nipples ~3/4 turn, and loosened non-driveside ~1/4, but no noticeable difference.

    Quest: is it reasonably safe to turn each another full turn or maybe 1.5 - 2 turns on drive side and loosen a wee bit on non-driveside? I don't know how tight I can go with these 100 mm carbons - much more resistant to tweaking than aluminum/smaller width, of course.

    (I don't have time at this point to go to my LBS. thanks.)


    You can take the time to do it right, or you can make the time to do it twice.

    Doing it right usually takes less time and costs a lot less.

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