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  1. #1
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    Pugsley front derailleur problem

    I finally got my 2010 curry Pugs set up for touring and went out on an overnight shakedown ride. Loved it. Most comfortable gravel road rig I've ever ridden.
    BUT I had a lot of trouble shifting from the small to middle ring (2x9 - 22/32, 11-32). We messed with adjustments but the only way to make it work was to shift way into the smaller cogs before trying to get it up onto the middle ring. Even then it was far from clean.There is zero chance it could ever work with a big ring.
    Back home following a little search I discovered I didn't have an E-type derailleur (bought the bike used, already set up). Again, BUT, I discovered the frame doesn't have the tab for the E-type mount. It doesn't appear there ever was one. Was this optional? Is there another way to mount E-type derailleurs?
    I'll take this into the shop for adjustment help but it would be nice to actually have the right derailleur.

  2. #2
    will rant for food
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    It doesn't have the tab? How is it held on? This needs pictures.

  3. #3
    Fat!Drunk!Slow!
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    Sounds like you have a normal fd installed on the seat tube which will not work.

    There should be a little tab sticking up off the bottom bracket shell for an etype fd. Take a picture for us, it should help.

  4. #4
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    That's right - seat tube mounted derailleur. It's close to working with the 2x9 but I don't think it will ever be great. Pictures to follow.

  5. #5
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    I can't see or feel any evidence that there ever was a tab.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Pugsley front derailleur problem-pugs-front-derailleur.jpg  

    Pugsley front derailleur problem-pugs-no-tab.jpg  


  6. #6
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    There should definitely be a tab welded on the bb shell!

  7. #7
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    Unless it was ground off and re-powder coated I don't think there ever was a tab. Maybe that's why I got such a good deal on it.

  8. #8
    Fat!Drunk!Slow!
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    Odd for sure, no evidence of a tab anywhere. Wonder if it was a prototype since 2010 was the first year with the lower top tube.

    This should solve your problem!

    Problem Solvers

    FS1322
    Direct Mount Adapter
    34.9/31.8/28.6mm
    Shimano High Direct Mount Only
    100mm

    Also could have been what surly had in mind, using this adapter, since this is what Salsa did with the mukluk in 2010. Might have changed their mind to keep the price down.

  9. #9
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    It does look like that is the only option. At least there is an option that doesn't require welding. Now to find the right derailleur that isn't too fancy and expensive for this gravel grinder.
    Thanks for the quick help.

  10. #10
    Fat!Drunk!Slow!
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    A Shimano SLX M665 E-Type Top- swing Dual-pull Front derailleur will work great that has a decent price if you want to stick to 2x9.

  11. #11
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    That exact one won't work because it's not a direct mount right? I looked around a bit for a direct mount 2x9 or 2x10 since I have no interest in running 3 rings. They are all in the $50 range. But then I saw an XT 3x9 on sale for $10.50. No reason that I can see not to get this. It can be adjusted just fine for 2x9 use correct? $10.50 would take the sting out of having to spring for the adapter.

  12. #12
    Dr Gadget is IN
    Reputation: wadester's Avatar
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    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  13. #13
    Dr Gadget is IN
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    Quote Originally Posted by nm13 View Post
    That exact one won't work because it's not a direct mount right? I looked around a bit for a direct mount 2x9 or 2x10 since I have no interest in running 3 rings. They are all in the $50 range. But then I saw an XT 3x9 on sale for $10.50. No reason that I can see not to get this. It can be adjusted just fine for 2x9 use correct? $10.50 would take the sting out of having to spring for the adapter.
    $10.50 is a great price, especially for XT. The adapter is $35.95

    This is why I'm still running an E-type on my fatback. It hasn't pissed me off enough to want to spend the $90 for adapter/derailer/s&h to upgrade. Actually, I haven't had any issues with the E-type FD - but I haven't felt the need to put a larger than 44t big ring on, either. With a 26" MTB, I always felt a need for a 46t. With 29er and fatbike - not ever.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  14. #14
    Fat!Drunk!Slow!
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    Looks like the m665 wont work, you have to stick with Shimano's direct mount FD's, like the M661-D, it mounts differently and looks like the M661 is spec for the Mukluk build. You might find other options.

  15. #15
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    I think I'll get the XT/adapter unless someone cautions against it for 2x9 use. At this point I don't plan on running anything larger than a 34 tooth chain ring as I'm coming off some long-term injuries and am just not strong enough to push higher gears.

  16. #16
    Fat!Drunk!Slow!
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    I couldn't find a direct mount XT, which model is it? And whats the link to the $10 model? ;'p

  17. #17
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    M771D
    Shimano XT M771D Direct Mount Derailleur at JensonUSA.com

    By the way I'm using NOS XT friction shifters which should make this easier.

  18. #18
    Fat!Drunk!Slow!
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    That's the one!!! And what a great price to!!!

    They sell the adapter too!!! $50.50 for both is cheap!

  19. #19
    Mr.Green
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    Hi,
    A simple and easy solution would be to use something like a ‘DMR hinged clamp 28.6’ combined with some spacers like this
    Pugsley front derailleur problem-clamp-001.jpg
    Pugsley front derailleur problem-clamp-003.jpg
    And to use a E-type front derailleur.

  20. #20
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    I already bought the problem solvers direct mount adapter and an XT direct mount derailleur for about $50 total including shipping. The problem solver adapter looks more solid. Hopefully it will work well.

  21. #21
    fading away
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Thomsen View Post
    Hi,
    A simple and easy solution would be to use something like a ‘DMR hinged clamp 28.6’ combined with some spacers like this
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    And to use a E-type front derailleur.
    Would like to see some more pictures of that bike—is it yours? I like anodised bits of goodness.
    goodbye cruel world. I am leaving you today.

  22. #22
    PSYCHOLUST
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    Unless I;ve missed something, DIRECT MOUNT ADAPTERS will land you in the same type of problem you have now.

    The adapters ALL are made to set the deraileur the "correct" distance from the seat tube, but a FAT BIKE doesn't need the deraileur the "correct" distance, it needs it FURTHER from the seat tube than on a "normal" frame.

    The direct mount or using an "E"tpe with some kind of rigged-up anchor bolt will require spacers and/or longer bolts

  23. #23
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    Problem Solvers made this adapter specifically for orienting direct mount derailleurs to wider bottom brackets and this particular model is for 100mm BB's. It just showed up in the mail and the derailleur is in my POB so I'll get it all mounted and report back soon.

  24. #24
    Cheesiest
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    Quote Originally Posted by nm13 View Post
    Problem Solvers made this adapter specifically for orienting direct mount derailleurs to wider bottom brackets and this particular model is for 100mm BB's. It just showed up in the mail and the derailleur is in my POB so I'll get it all mounted and report back soon.
    Works pretty well. That's how I have mine setup.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by nm13 View Post
    Problem Solvers made this adapter specifically for orienting direct mount derailleurs to wider bottom brackets and this particular model is for 100mm BB's. It just showed up in the mail and the derailleur is in my POB so I'll get it all mounted and report back soon.
    I finally had the adapter and the new derailleur installed. Everything works perfectly - clean mounting with precise and immediate shifts.

  26. #26
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    Top or bottom swing? Specs say 660

    Hey all. Glad I found this thread as I am a tad confused on my new Pugsley frame.

    1) I just got my PUGS frame and and was looking at that FD bracket tab. With that tab there why would I need an e-type FD as noted all over the Surly site? A direct mount FD seems more logical.

    2) This post seems to reference the M661 FD (bottom swing) while the specs for e-type is a M660 (Top swing) So just to confirm...if I use the bracket tab it needs to be BOTTOM SWING (clamp ABOVE the cage)

    3) Why doesn't Surly's site show that direct mount bracket tab on the PUGS frame. (weak!)

    Looking forward to being in the Fat Bike club.

  27. #27
    Fat!Drunk!Slow!
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    What year is your frame? 2013 pugsley no longer uses e-type, direct-mount only now.

    "Front Derailleur SLX Direct Mount, FD-M660. Topswing, dual pull"

  28. #28
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    It is white and I was assuming the 2012. Just picked it up on Ebay. Here is a picture and description (which is what is throwing me off!) Plus the LBS that carries tons of fat bikes showed me that problem solver attachment...on a yellow (2013 Pugs).

    This was a BRAND NEW complete bike that was swapped for another color frame, Complete with Stock Ritchy Headset and Fork

    The Surly Pugsley changes the meaning of "all-terrain." Float over sand, mud, ice and snow on super fat, low pressure tires. Surly Pugsley. Blaze a new trail.
    Frame and fork dropouts are spaced at 135mm and offset 17.5mm to compliment a 100mm bottom bracket shell, and the resulting wider chainline. Equal spacing and offset of the frame and fork allow front and rear wheels to interchange
    Surly 4130 CroMoly steel; main triangle double-butted; horizontal rear-load dropouts with derailleur hanger
    Tire clearance up to 4.0" on 82mm rims. Use of 82mm rims requires a Surly Mr. Whirly Offset Double (MWOD) crank or truncated cassette to avoid tire/chain rub. Standard mountain triple gearing will work with 65mm rims, 22-32-44t Max
    Dual water bottle mounts, Surly Trip Guide full line guides for brake and derailleurs, fender and rack eyelets
    Uses an E-type front derailleur
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Pugsley front derailleur problem-surly.jpg  


  29. #29
    Fat!Drunk!Slow!
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    That tab above the BB is what the e-type FD attaches to, besides going on the BB itself.
    Pick your poison!
    Universal Cycles -- Product Search - 9 Products

    But, no one says you cant use the PS 100mm DM Adaptor and a Direct Mount FD?

  30. #30
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    2012 was designed to use the e-type front derailleur and that what the tab is for. 2013 changed to the direct mount per Surly's webpage " the front derailleur is now a more modern and sensible D-type, and we include the adapter clamp even if you just buy the frame."

    I have a white 2012 which has the E-type front derailleur and it works peachy keen. You could use the direct mount Problem Solvers attachment, but why spend more money than you have to spend?

  31. #31
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    e type is not the same as direct mount

    Thanks for everyone's help.

    I don't want to buy the wrong FD and am seeing ridiculous amounts of options. Sorry..for hopefully the last question.

    Check out the pic of the white one. That appears to have the derailleur (DIRECT MOUNT) attached to the tab. (Do the DIRECT MOUNT derailleurs normally come with the screw or is that something that SURLY supplies?)

    Lastly...an E-Type front Derailluer WOULD NOT screw to that tab. It would only be squished between the frame and BB cup.

    SO ...there are DIRECT MOUNTS and E TYPE fd's.
    I could use either....right?

    All these options make realize why SS will always be king.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Pugsley front derailleur problem-surly-der.jpg  


  32. #32
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    That is actually a E-type tab on the black and white Pugs. The E-type derailleur does have the BB ring, but it also has to screw into that tab to prevent rotation of the derailleur. When I built up my Pugs I didn't get that very well until I mounted everything up and went "oooh, now I get it".

    Checkout the smaller round hole in the black body directly underneath the silver body. That is where the tab on the frames above attaches to.
    Shimano Deore XT M770E Front Derailleur > Components > Drivetrain > Front Derailleurs | Jenson USA Online Bike Shop

    Edit: To answer your question about what Surly provides. From there webpage it sounds like they include the Problem Solvers direct mount clamp such that you can use a direct mount derailleur.
    Last edited by Turtle01; 10-18-2012 at 08:28 AM.

  33. #33
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    Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by Turtle01 View Post
    That is actually a E-type tab on the black and white Pugs. The E-type derailleur does have the BB ring, but it also has to screw into that tab to prevent rotation of the derailleur. When I built up my Pugs I didn't get that very well until I mounted everything up and went "oooh, now I get it".

    Checkout the smaller round hole in the black body directly underneath the silver body. That is where the tab on the frames above attaches to.
    Shimano Deore XT M770E Front Derailleur > Components > Drivetrain > Front Derailleurs | Jenson USA Online Bike Shop

    Edit: To answer your question about what Surly provides. From there webpage it sounds like they include the Problem Solvers direct mount clamp such that you can use a direct mount derailleur.
    Thanks Turtle. I had that feeling but just wanted to make sure.
    Confusion also came from the fact that it even looks like you could take off the e type bracket on the derailleur and attach the derailleur directly to the frame with the one screw (not what I am going to do!) which is what I thought everyone was referring to as direct mount. Ride on man!

  34. #34
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    Can anyone confirm that the 2013 Pugsley framesets include the direct mount adapter?

  35. #35
    Fat!Drunk!Slow!
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    I've seen numerous places saying it did.

    From their WWW:
    and the front derailleur is now a more modern and sensible D-type, and we include the adapter clamp even if you just buy the frame.

  36. #36
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    I hope they do include it. I'm ordering a Pugs frameset and just realized that the Problem Solvers adapter is around €35...outch

  37. #37
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    Follow up pics for future Pugsley owners

    PIcked up a e-Type M665 (for a double crankset) at Veloswap today. Can't beat $5!
    This is how it looks installed.
    The screw used to attach it to tab is just a basic rack screw which makes sense. Thread all of them the same.

    And for the record...if anybody is going to use the FSA DH 100mm Bottom Bracket...please note their instructions are WRONG.

    They have the threading backwards. I almost couldn't believe it. The BB better be better than the lousy tech writer and QC process.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Pugsley front derailleur problem-img_3860.jpg  

    Pugsley front derailleur problem-img_3862.jpg  

    Pugsley front derailleur problem-img_3865.jpg  


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