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  1. #1
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    Paging 170mm 9 zero 7 owners

    Hey guys, I would love to know how much clearance you have between your rear tire and chain. I am running nates front and rear and my tire clearance sucks. I have two bikes sitting here with almost the same build and tires and they both rub in the first three gears if the bike is in the granny up front. I am running a medium 907 with their low end build kit. I have sent email to Chain Reaction Cycles and I was told I have should have no clearance issues with my combo. Let me know what you guys are getting. I just maybe sending this bike back. Much appreciated!
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  2. #2
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    I'm running Truvativ Blaze crankset on my large 2012 9:Zero:7. When on the largest cog in the rear and in the granny gear up front, there is a hair over 1/8 inch clearance on the top chain but the bottom chain rubs the tire a bit. When I'm on the second largest cog in the rear, no rubbing on both ends. I notice that everyone looks at the top part of the chain to check for rubbing. I don't have that issue, it only rubs on the bottom part of the chain. It might the derailleur hanger. Slight bending might solve this issue.

  3. #3
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    I am running 2x9 with the MWOD chainrings on my small 907. With a Nate I have around 1/4" clearance at the top of the chain and 3/16" at the bottom of the chain in the lowest gear. With a BFL I get a slight scrape at only one place around the circumference of the tire. I may add one spacer to the bottom bracket to take care of that.

  4. #4
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    I had same problem on my 135. I fitted a spacer to the drive side on the BB to fix the rub with a nate.
    See this for more info

    http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/201...ub-748396.html
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  5. #5
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    Large 9:Zero:7
    1x9 (35t x 11-34t)
    Surly Mr Whirly Cranks
    Rear wheel: Rolling Daryls with a Larry tire

    No issues. I just say go 1x9. I have a hard time seeing need for even 9 gears
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  6. #6
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    Well, right now I am running a 2x9, but what irks me is that we had alot of correspondence about the bike before I bought it. So, I feel that they should have informed me for the potential for chain rub with the FSA crankset. At least then I could have paid the difference for a better crank, at least for the clearance issues we are having. Could of gotten a Muk 2 locally and let them deal with it. Thanks for all the replies and advice. I have much to contemplate. Much appreciated.

    tcristy what size spacer did you go with?
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    Right now I have the single drive side 2.5 mm spacer called for by Surly for the Mr. Whirly.

  8. #8
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    That is the same size as I use with ISIS BB/FSA cranks combo to avoid rub.
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  9. #9
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    Thanks for the info guys. I appreciate it. I might be looking to shim this puppy over and see what it does.
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  10. #10
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    e-13 crank triple ring
    x9 sram
    BFL's on rolling daryls

    runs any gear combination without any chain rub

  11. #11
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    Hey Geist, I was interested to see your thread pop up and was looking forward to getting home from work and posting some pictures of the clearance (which I was sure existed) on my new 2012 size L with the same low-end (Susitna) build kit. One difference between your setup and mine is that I'm running an Endo, not a Nate. One other difference is that I'm running a 10-sp rear and you said you're running a 9-sp (not sure about the discrepancy - their website lists a 10-sp in the build kit).

    Up front, I'm running a double - not by choice, though. I ordered a 3x10 (again, per their build kit), but got a triple chainring, triple shifter, but compact der. So I converted the bike to a double after some hassle and expense to myself, just to get it on the road - still running a triple shifter on a double setup, the whole deal is very lame. But I'm getting off track.

    So I'm a little embarrassed about not noticing this sooner (hey, in my defense the bike is still pretty new), but when I went to snap some pics I was pretty much shocked to find out that my chain was rubbing when in the little ring/big cog. In the little ring/second cog, I have a little less than 1/16" clearance, so let's say 1.5 mm. This blows and is the latest in a LONG list of issues that has made my experience of dealing with Chain Reaction a major PITA.

    This is the clearance with little ring/second cog . . .

    Paging 170mm 9 zero 7 owners-img_0037.jpg

    Here's the rub marks on my tire that I hadn't even noticed until tonight . . .

    Paging 170mm 9 zero 7 owners-img_0031.jpg

    Just so you can see what crankset I'm using . . .

    Paging 170mm 9 zero 7 owners-img_0039.jpg

    Anyway, I'm not trying to hijack your thread with my rant, but it really struck a chord with me, especially the part about how you called them and they told you "you should have plenty of clearance". I was treated similarly when I called about getting the wrong front der and was told I definitely had the right der, even though I had already taken the number off the hardware and gone on Shimano's website and verified that it was the wrong der. Grrrr.

  12. #12
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    Spovegas, How many spacers do you have on the bottom bracket drive side? I am putting the same crank on a Mukluk I'm building up for my son and don't have the bottom bracket yet. I am hoping I can make it work with no chain rub.
    Latitude 61

  13. #13
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    Check the alignment of your frame.

    The rear wheel that fits perfectly in my Pug comes close to rubbing on my 907 so I had to reset the wheel to fit. I know the wheel is correctly built because I built it myself and measured everything up.

    The obvious conclusion is that the 907 is slightly out in its rear end. I put it down to a one-off, but maybe their frame jig has been out of alignment for a few frames.

    I didn't regard it as a big deal - a few minutes with the spoke tool and all was well.
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  14. #14
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    Hey Spovegas, feel free to rant. I don't have time right now, but the whole experience is gone south for me as well. Gotta wonder what a warranty issue will be like. Might take a week off of work and head out to Anchorage. I always wanted to see Alaska anyway.
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    hate to say I told you so.....but I did :)

    [QUOTE=Geist262;8822537]Hey Spovegas, feel free to rant. I don't have time right now, but the whole experience is gone south for me as well. Gotta wonder what a warranty issue will be like."

    Well, like someone told me in a past thread - "caveat emptor"

    Actually, Geist's bike is beautiful...it just seems to feel "entitled".

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geist262 View Post
    Hey Spovegas, feel free to rant. I don't have time right now, but the whole experience is gone south for me as well. Gotta wonder what a warranty issue will be like. Might take a week off of work and head out to Anchorage. I always wanted to see Alaska anyway.
    Bear in mind the bike was designed before the Nate was available or public knowledge, so it's unfair to expect the manufacturer or bike shop to take responsibility for it not working with that tyre.

    Fair enough if it was with Endo or Larry, and keep in mind that if it's a matter of wheel alignment that's only a few minutes to fix.
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    agreed, however if the bike cant handle a Nate how is it

    [QUOTE=Velobike;8822657]Bear in mind the bike was designed before the Nate was available or public knowledge, so it's unfair to expect the manufacturer or bike shop to take responsibility for it not working with that tyre.


    going to handle a BFL on hundies???
    Also, keep in mind that a proletarian simple base model pugsley (also keep in mind that the entire base white Pugs can be purchased for about the price of the Sustina build kit) handles the Nate fine in the rear and is able to run a full 3x9 drivetrain with ample clearance. Based on the visual clearances, it would not surprise me if the pugs could handle the Nate even with a 82mm rim - I think it would be tight and possibly a no go but that is pretty impressive at the price point.

    EDIT: and by "no go" I mean in terms of chain line clearance - heck I have seen pugs with BFLs in the back (pretty sure it was the 65mm LM rims) but I believe they were running 1x 9 to get chainline clearance and hence the MWOD cranks, moonlander, etc.
    Last edited by nepanite; 12-14-2011 at 06:31 AM. Reason: adding text for clarification

  18. #18
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    Pugsley & Mukluk are owned by the company that supplies the tyres, so they would have had plenty advance notice. The other companies would not have this benefit, and with lead times of up to a year for a new frame design/modification, they're always going to be playing catch up on new tyre widths.

    I wonder if the Moonlander is a prelude to even wider tyres seeing as the Pugsley is capable of handling BFLs.
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  19. #19
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    [QUOTE=nepanite;8822669]
    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    Bear in mind the bike was designed before the Nate was available or public knowledge, so it's unfair to expect the manufacturer or bike shop to take responsibility for it not working with that tyre.


    going to handle a BFL on hundies???
    Also, keep in mind that a proletarian simple base model pugsley (also keep in mind that the entire base white Pugs can be purchased for about the price of the Sustina build kit) handles the Nate fine in the rear and is able to run a full 3x9 drivetrain with ample clearance. Based on the visual clearances, it would not surprise me if the pugs could handle the Nate even with a 82mm rim - I think it would be tight and possibly a no go but that is pretty impressive at the price point.

    EDIT: and by "no go" I mean in terms of chain line clearance - heck I have seen pugs with BFLs in the back (pretty sure it was the 65mm LM rims) but I believe they were running 1x 9 to get chainline clearance and hence the MWOD cranks, moonlander, etc.
    I had Rolling D's on my Pugs with Nates...2x10...FSA BB and Race Face cranks...no rubbing at all.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by sryanak View Post
    Spovegas, How many spacers do you have on the bottom bracket drive side? I am putting the same crank on a Mukluk I'm building up for my son and don't have the bottom bracket yet. I am hoping I can make it work with no chain rub.
    Chain Reaction installed the crankset so I don't know right off hand. Tried to get a visual with a flashlight, but it's hard to see. I'm going to have to take it apart and see what's going on.

    VB, it doesn't appear at first glance that the alignment is off, but I'll have to get into it more thoroughly when I have some more free time.

  21. #21
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    Hey;

    This is all very good info, so keep it up, fellas. I find it very hard to believe that in this day and age that a frame builder would not know enough to keep a jig in alignment so they got square and equal frames by the batch. It's just not that hard. If the builder CAN'T do this, then another vendor needs to be sourced ASAP.

    It is also not hard to sit and think and reason what types of hardware may be utilized on their frames. It is a normal part of any project development process, and I find it hard to believe that anyone thinking about a new product would not spend an enormous amount of time trying every conceivable combination and then tailoring their frame to fit a reasonable amount of those options, even to the point of mocking up things that they cannot source to do their testing. Heck, when GM was designing the latest Corvette, they bought a Porsche 968 (built 15-17 years previous), studied it closely, and adopted much of the chassis & drivetrain architecture. Sourcing successful examples of competing products for your own development is not a new idea.

    You wanna sell a product successfully? Your biggest job is making sure it works in a lot of circumstances BEFORE you start selling it. THAT is where the development time needs to be spent. This thread proves it doesn't do you much good to let your customers do your R&D for you. It helps to have the savvy or experience to work around such problems, and a lot of us even enjoy the challenge, but a producer is foolish to rely on that.

    I had assumed that the 170 centered chassis was going to be the future standard, and I do like the 9'r option for it. Looks like I will wait a while longer to purchase my own 9ZERO7/170. Sexy for sure, but not ready for Prime Time?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrailMaker View Post
    I had assumed that the 170 centered chassis was going to be the future standard, and I do like the 9'r option for it.
    Given the early stage of fatbike development I wouldn't hold out too much hope that any 2011 design is going to be future proof.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrailMaker View Post
    ...I find it very hard to believe that in this day and age that a frame builder would not know enough to keep a jig in alignment so they got square and equal frames by the batch.
    ...You wanna sell a product successfully? Your biggest job is making sure it works in a lot of circumstances BEFORE you start selling it. THAT is where the development time needs to be spent. This thread proves it doesn't do you much good to let your customers do your R&D for you.
    ...I had assumed that the 170 centered chassis was going to be the future standard, and I do like the 9'r option for it. Looks like I will wait a while longer to purchase my own 9ZERO7/170...
    That's the problem with outsourcing production. You're at the mercy of the supplier. But there's nothing unusual even these days about frames out of line. The only reason it's not more obvious is because very few shops put new bikes on a frame alignment jig (or have one for that matter), and also because most riders don't notice anyway. IMO this is a very minor issue on the 907 - retrue the wheel and the problem is gone (if it is a misalignment problem on yours).

    R&D is the gold standard, but most advances in cycling come from small guys and they simply have to rely on their experience and gut feel because they can't afford the budgets for R&D.

    Future standard? I doubt it. Tyres have to get much fatter. I'm hoping for 6" at least. Frames are going to have to change radically.

    If you're going to wait, then try not to think of all the fun you're missing in the meantime. It's not a perfect world.
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  24. #24
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    Grab 6 pack of beer and forget that we don't live in a perfect world!

  25. #25
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    Well said, Old Bean;

    Perhaps the numbers of folks drawn to Fatbikes in the formative stages of the genre are umm... fat with people used to doing that sort of tweaking to make things work, they having the experience of building many like contraptions - for this or that purpose or whim - from scratch, in the past. As the numbers of more mainstream riders find interest in these beasts, they are I suppose bound to point out these early-days deficiencies, but will be ill prepared to deal with such things as re-truing a wheel or even spacing a BB or ring set.

    If the little manufacturers can work this stuff out quickly and make a seamless product (it takes dogged determination and effort), they might survive the inevitable onslaught of larger companies battering them if the niche turns truly popular. If not, they will be passed by and largely forgotten like so many.

    Niner might be a good example for any Fatbike impresario to mimic.

  26. #26
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    As an aside;

    My formative biking years were spent on curb bikes; built from the trash day remnants of other people's riding misadventures. I'm been well used in the past to taking any number of disparate components and putting them together into something that functioned... at least reasonably well, and this knowledge has served me well as I've rekindled this interest in the form of mountain biking. I have the chops, in other words. I am thinking of those that don't, and what it will mean for the companies that ill serve them.

    It will be what it will be, and as the market dictates. That's as it should be.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by mttklmhifi1 View Post
    Grab 6 pack of beer and forget that we don't live in a perfect world!

    “Its not a perfect world.” I hear this mantra a lot these days and you know what? I am well aware of that fact. My wife and I lost a baby girl due to negligence 4 years ago. Please don't tell me I live in a imperfect world. I figured that out on my own. Now, since we have that out of the way, let's move on shall we?


    My first issue I would like to address is Chain Reaction Cycles customer service. When I was inquiring about the bikes, I had correspondence with Bill Fleming. We had discussed many concerns about the bike. My friend also did as well. We both had an order in for 170mm frames and the low end suistina build kits and we both wanted builds(assembled) done. Bill was great on letting us substitute parts out, including the nates. We also both wanted the bikes to be checked out for chain interference with the tire after we had seen a post about chain rub with nates on a 907 135mm offset frames. I grew inpatient because the bikes were not shipping, so I told Bill just send mine out and I will build it up myself. My friends shipped out a few days later. I received my bike without tubes, rim strips and chain. Called CRC and they apologized for the mix up and sent them out overnight. Great! Also, I did not get any cable ferrules and I was short a few cable clips. Did I come on here and *****? No. I let it slide. I might add that my frame has a couple dings in the paint from poor packaging and my rims were also scraped up a bit. Its just cosmetic and I also let that slide. By the way, I was given a chain upgrade for the mix up, so that was nice of them. So, what happened? I got the time to build my bike up, which was uneventful; until I checked my chain clearance. Uh Oh, that imperfect world seemed to slip into my perfect world and was rubbing my tire, or was it the chain? Actually the chain doesn't just rub, it pretty much lays on the tire. Why was I not notified that this would happen? Why haven't they given me a solution. Here is the email I received from CRC:



    You shouldn’t have any rub on that Combo.
    I would try another crank if you can track one down .
    Thanks
    James Stull
    Owner - Chain Reaction Cycles/Fatbikes.com
    Ph. 907.336-0383 Fax 907-336-0384
    www.chainreactioncycles.us
    www.fatbikes.com

    This wasn't the answer I was hoping for. I mean I bought CRC's build kit. I didn't just try to put a bike together with random parts. I am not feeling the love that I had before. Kinda feel out in the cold right now. I haven't heard from Bill since the bike shipped, except for the note with the chain. I still have an email out that has yet to be answered. I have called to talk to Bill numerous times, but he is never there or in a meeting. The lack of support is not encouraging. The best part? My friends bike that was built by CRC rubs too. Care to explain that? We thought it was supposed to be checked for rub. The problem is not the bike, but lack of CS.

    Now that we have that out of the way, I just would like to address the people that accept this behavior as acceptable. Let me ask you this. If you were reading a post on MTBR.com about a Bikes Direct or Ibex customer going through this, what would you say? Would you still just mention that life is imperfect? I see internet sellers get bashed on a daily basis. Remember forum 88?


    Frame alignment issues. I have checked my frame and the wheel sits center on the frame. That being said, if the frame is out of alignment, do I get a new frame because its out of spec? That would be a manufacturer defect right? This bike was supposed to fit 100mm rims with BFL 4.7s with no issues as long as a offset crank(MWOD) was used and the removal of a few cogs in the rear. Right now I have removed two cogs and looking to dish my wheel as well. Pictures coming soon.


    In closing, you can look up all my posts on MTBR and you will find that I don't like ripping on people and/or businesses, but ignoring the problem just may create your version of an imperfect world.




    BTW, Spovegas, its a 2x10. I forgot about that. Right now it's a 2x8.
    Last edited by Geist262; 12-14-2011 at 02:31 PM. Reason: technical diff.
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  28. #28
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    [QUOTE=Geist262;8824078]“Its not a perfect world.” I hear this mantra a lot these days and you know what? I am well aware of that fact. My wife and I lost a baby girl due to negligence 4 years ago. Please don't tell me I live in a imperfect world. I figured that out on my own. Now, since we have that out of the way, let's move on shall we?



    I have shed a tear after learning what you have gone through and I'm sorry about that remark. No one should lose their children. I have a son of my own and couldn't imagine what you have gone through.

    I wasn't thinking about life in general but about equipment not being perfect. The remark I said was something that my friend heard from Sears customer services when he called in that his stove had a 1/4 scratch on top of it after being delivered.

    After realizing that you are having a lot issues with your 907, you shouldn't take this crap! I would be upset if I had that much issues with my 907.

  29. #29
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    [QUOTE=mttklmhifi1;8824194]
    Quote Originally Posted by Geist262 View Post
    I wasn't thinking about life in general but about equipment not being perfect. The remark I said was something that my friend heard from Sears customer services when he called in that his stove had a 1/4 scratch on top of it after being delivered.
    It's OK MT, funny thing is we had a range moved in one time and it had a ding from delivery. I just let it go. I am not trying to be an as$ about the situation.
    There is no charge for awesomeness......or attractiveness.

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    I have checked my 907 again. The rear tire is not perfectly centered.The rear tire is a little bit closer to the non drive seatstay and chainstay. Do you have equal clearance on both sides between the tire and the seatstays and chainstays? You could try adding a half turn on each spoke on the non drive side and subtract half turn on the drive side. This would move the tire a bit closer to the non drive side. I noticed that my BB does have two spacers on the drive side and there are none on the non drive side. Hope this helps! Maybe my frame is also out of alignment and the shop did those to remedy the problem.

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    Yeah I'm not here to slam Chain Reaction at all as they have helped me a lot with my 907 earlier this year and my interest in the new one but......... When I received my frame it was just thrown in a box, no padding, plastic, support just nothing. It did come out fine but I am sure glad i paid for 2 day shipping cuz 7-10 days in a box from Alaska to Wi would've been brutal!
    Last edited by bdundee; 12-14-2011 at 08:07 PM.

  32. #32
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    Not Good, Geist;

    You have every right to be disappointed. Makes me have second thoughts about my 9ZERO7 lust. Sounds like they are in over their heads.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrailMaker View Post
    Sounds like they are in over their heads.
    That maybe. It would explain the lack of support. Maybe they will get back to me when they get ahead of the work load.
    There is no charge for awesomeness......or attractiveness.

    Good rep does not wash out the bad, nor the bad the good.

  34. #34
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    mine was full of packing
    bubble wrapped with extra foam on the bb and head tube
    also sent to Wisconsin
    the offset in the back is around 19mm not 17.5
    measured off the bb shell with straightedge

    when are we going to get some snow bdundee?
    I wanted to Ride after my Christmas build

    Sj
    I am slow therefore I am

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    Hey Randy,

    Sorry to hear you have had such a frustrating experience. We will always stand behind our product, and if you would like to return the bike, we'd be happy to give you a full refund. Give us a call and we'll take care of it.

    We're in for the long haul, and don't mind the the criticism. In the long run it's what will make us better. Several posts mentioned legitamate concerns, and we will address them. We've experienced a lot of growth this year, and along with that, we have experienced some growing pains. I apoligize if we missed the mark on your order. Give us a call, and we'll work it out.

    Thanks,
    Bill

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlowerJoe View Post

    when are we going to get some snow bdundee?
    I wanted to Ride after my Christmas build

    Sj
    I hope soon, the rain just killed the snow we did have.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by bflemin View Post
    Hey Randy,

    Sorry to hear you have had such a frustrating experience. We will always stand behind our product, and if you would like to return the bike, we'd be happy to give you a full refund. Give us a call and we'll take care of it.

    We're in for the long haul, and don't mind the the criticism. In the long run it's what will make us better. Several posts mentioned legitamate concerns, and we will address them. We've experienced a lot of growth this year, and along with that, we have experienced some growing pains. I apoligize if we missed the mark on your order. Give us a call, and we'll work it out.

    Thanks,
    Bill
    Bill,
    Bill, thanks for getting on the horn and calling me. I was thrilled to hear from you. I am glad we're working this out and has renewed my faith in you and Chain Reaction Cycles. I really love the bike by the little bit I have rode it. I can't wait till this is sorted out. Much appreciated!!!!!
    There is no charge for awesomeness......or attractiveness.

    Good rep does not wash out the bad, nor the bad the good.

  38. #38
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    Good on ya Bill

  39. #39
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    The guys at CRC are awesome.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy View Post
    The guys at CRC are awesome.
    ++++1

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy View Post
    The guys at CRC are awesome.
    I've had a great experience as well. The shop is great and bike is awesome.
    The LPG

  42. #42
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    Great to hear that things are moving in the right direction. You can judge the quality of a company not by how they handle the smooth things, but how they handle adversity. My Orange XL is on order and I feel like a kid waiting for Xmas!

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by bflemin View Post

    We're in for the long haul, and don't mind the the criticism. In the long run it's what will make us better. Several posts mentioned legitamate concerns, and we will address them. We've experienced a lot of growth this year, and along with that, we have experienced some growing pains. I apoligize if we missed the mark on your order. Give us a call, and we'll work it out.
    First off, Bill, kudos for chiming in. I totally appreciate you stepping up and admitting some growing pains. In my many conversations with CRC, no one has been straightforward with me and that would have gone a long, long way. I do believe that you guys have been slammed and I'm pretty understanding in that sense. But my experience has been pretty over the top, and not in a good sense. I'm not the kind of person that makes a big fuss with people I buy stuff from - most of the time I prefer to just deal with it myself if I can and move on. But I feel a little bit of a responsibility to not just keep quiet about it and so I'm not asking you for anything, except to just listen to my story and try to fix what you can so that future customers don't have to go through what I did.

    I ordered my bike over the phone with Jamey and he was super helpful and easy to deal with and I was jacked when I hung up the phone. I ordered a size L with the Susitna build kit. I substituted in an Alfine dynohub and a 100mm pugs fork to go with it. Other than that, pretty much the basic kit including regular larry front and endo rear. I wanted the bike built up and was told (twice) that it would be completely assembled and then disassembled for shipping. It was a Wednesday and I was told that everything was in stock and that the bike might ship the same week, but most likely first of the following week. He told me I would get an email with tracking number as soon as it shipped.

    By Thursday of the following week, I hadn't received an email, so I made a call, talked again to Jamey. Friendly on my end, friendly on his. Told me the bike was built and boxed except for the fork, which was out of stock and had to be ordered. He said the UPS shipment (presumably the QBP one?) for the week was done and that it wouldn't be until next week but that when it got there, all they had to do was drop it in the box and ship. I was a little disappointed, but not a big deal.

    Having not heard anything by the following Thurs, I called again and Will answered. He said the fork was due to arrive tomorrow and that the bike would probably ship Friday. He told me again that they would email a tracking number. Right on.

    Having not heard anything by the following Tues, I called again and got Jamey. He told me the fork had just arrived that day, but that they had to get the front wheel built up and he wasn't sure if they could get it done this week, so it would probably ship next week. Wha??? I said okay and hung up the phone.

    After about 45 mins of stewing, I called him backed and told him how unhappy I was with the answer he gave me considering what I had previously been told. He told me he was sorry, but didn't offer to do anything to expedite my order. He said they were sub-contracting out their wheel builds and didn't know exactly when my wheel would get built. Nice.

    I let things lie and didn't call back for a week and a half - until Friday of the following week. Talked to Colin. At first he told me they had run out of rims and were waiting for the next shipment to complete my order. I was ready to go ballistic, but stayed calm and explained what I had been told on previous calls. After some more checking, he found out that my bike had actually shipped yesterday. At this point all I wanted was to get the thing headed my way and it finally was. Sweet. Since I never got an email with tracking numbers, I asked Colin and he looked them up and gave them to me over the phone. About a week later the bike arrived. It was exactly 5 weeks from the time I ordered to the day it landed on my porch. Don't get me wrong - I don't think that's an exceptionally long time, especially in peak snowbike ordering season. If I had been told it would take that long up front, I would have been cool with it. But I ended up feeling totally jerked around every time I called and not being able to count on anything I was told and it was extremely frustrating and totally took the fun out buying this bike that I had researched and lusted over for months. But anyway, the bike was finally here, everything else was water under the bridge, and my troubles were over. Or so I thought.

    First thing I noticed was that during shipping, the top of the head tube had come through the front of the box that the frame was in and that one of the axles had come through the side of the box that the wheels were in. The end of the axle was buggered up pretty good, but still looked functional. The head tube was a different story, more about that in a minute.

    I opened up the boxes and found that the bike wasn't built up like I was expecting. The headset, front der, bb and crankset were installed, though, so that was cool. It would just take me more time to put it together than I had planned.

    Paging 170mm 9 zero 7 owners-parts.jpg

    Funny, how the rear rotor was installed, but not the front. The reason it wasn't, is that the hub is a centerlock and the rotor is 6-bolt. Maybe I should have known to ask for an adapter, but you would think that the fact that I was ordering a complete build kit would be a clue that I wanted all the parts I needed to put the bike together. Maybe CRC could have suggested an adapter when I ordered. Or maybe when they were putting the rotor on the back, and not putting it on the front might have emailed my to see if this got overlooked and did I want to add one to the order. But whatever, I ran around and found one at an LBS.

    Paging 170mm 9 zero 7 owners-wheels.jpg

    So back to the head tube. After it came through the box, the race got hammered pretty good, to the point that it wasn't round anymore and the bearing wouldn't fit in. I had to grind a radius on the end of a piece of flat bar and use it as a punch to put the race back into round to the point that it would accept the bearing.

    Paging 170mm 9 zero 7 owners-headset.jpg

    The front derailleur obviously had bigtime issues with the big chainring. I pulled the part number off the der and checked on shimano's website and found that it was the compact version. I was pretty much very happy being done talking with CRC, but in this case, I just had to call. I got a different guy on the phone this time (didn't catch his name) and after I explained my problem, he said just a minute he needed to talk to Jamey. When he came back, he told me I definitely had the right der, but that I just needed to configure it differently. Even though I knew better, I said okay, hung up the phone and tried the fix. Fail. By this point I was 1000% sure that CRC had shipped me the wrong der, but I couldn't just let it go - I needed to hear them admit it, so I called them back. This time Jamey answered. I picked up where I'd left off and he accepted the fact that it was the wrong part. He offered to send me the right part, but the tone was one of "what do we have to do to get you off our back?" I was done dealing with him anyway and waiting however long for parts to get shipped down was not what I was after. I talked to him a little about converting it to a double and told him that's what I would do, since I'm newly fat and don't really know whether I want a double or triple without some saddle time. So from a cost and hassle standpoint, I let him off the hook. This would have been a perfect time, from a CS standpoint, to say he was sorry for the trouble that their screwup had caused me. Maybe I should have said why doesn't he ask his mechanics to at least stroke a derailleur over the rings after they install it. But after several conversations, I guess we'd had our fill of talking to each other.

    Paging 170mm 9 zero 7 owners-der.jpg

    When CRC opened the box and pulled out the rotor to put on the rear wheel, they apparently tossed the package with the caliper bolts, because I didn't get em. Back to the LBS.

    Paging 170mm 9 zero 7 owners-brake-bolts.jpg

    Even though the Susitna build kit lists cable and housing, none was included. Well, except for the shifters, which came with cables. Back to the LBS.

    You know the rear rotor that got shop installed? Here's the video of what it looked like, as I was just starting to set up the rear caliper. It was way beyond my straightening capabilities. Back to the LBS for a new rotor.

    I finally got the bike on the road. But on the first ride, the chain kept ghost-shifting off the chainrings. Some inspection revealed that the middle chainring was bent to h*ll. The mangled aluminum teeth will eventually get smoothed out by the steel chain.

    Paging 170mm 9 zero 7 owners-bent-ring.jpg

    But the bend wasn't gonna take care of itself and I had to persuade it back into true with a soft-face hammer. It's not perfect, but it's way better and doesn't shift on its own anymore.

    Paging 170mm 9 zero 7 owners-bent-ring-2.jpg

    Some might argue that a lot of the damage was caused in transit and was not the fault of CRC. But when there are multiple instances of damage in the same shipment, you have to start looking at what the packaging had to do with it. And from what I witnessed about how the bike was packaged combined with the damage that was done, my opinion is that the packaging was very inadequate.

    Misc other stuff: The frame had a couple of dings in the paint. One rim was scraped up pretty good, but I colored it with a sharpie. I don't care much, I buy my bikes to ride, not as artwork, so not that bigga deal. I didn't get any of the paperwork for the headset, bb, cranks or der that had been installed. Would actually like to have gotten this. Normally, whenever I've ordered a build from my LBS, they keep all the installation instructions together and give them to me.

    Now I have to fix this chain rub problem. I guess I should probably try talking to CRC, but I don't have much hope for a straight answer at this point, so I'll probably rely more on the forums and my own judgement. Just seems really wrong to me that CRC sells a complete build kit for their 2012 frame that causes rub with a well-established tire. As of right now, the wheel is nicely centered in the stays and I suppose that the easy fix is to dish it, which IMO sucks, having to move the wheel off center to get chain clearance. That's not what I thought I purchased for in excess of $2K.

    So I've gone on long enough. Bill, plenty of improvement to make in your guys' process from my point of view and like I said at the beginning of the post, I don't really want any more interaction with CRC, but I hope you really do give enough of a sh*t, as you say you do, to put some effort into making things better for your future customers. I wouldn't wish my experience on anyone.

    For those of you who have nothing but good things to say about CRC, I'm truly happy for you. Maybe there has never been a better time in the history of forums to insert the acronym YMMV.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by spovegas View Post
    ...For those of you who have nothing but good things to say about CRC, I'm truly happy for you...
    I have no sympathy for people who come on here ranting emotionally about problems and hurling insults about.

    However that is no rant, it is a believable and detailed account of poor customer service, and you have made major and beyond reasonable efforts to overcome the difficulties imposed on you by it and you have given them plenty opportunities to sort the problem. In fact it's one of the best I have seen.

    It certainly looks like the fatbike boom has caught them unprepared - there's obviously a need for better systems and internal QC. I hope this all gets sorted out to your satisfaction.

    Keep us up to date on how this develops.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

  45. #45
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    Truly Unfortunate;

    There are two things I know.; 1) It is nearly impossible for one who is an enthusiast/business owner to find employees who will maintain your level of commitment to "perfection". In fact, it is sometimes hard to find that in the business owners themselves. 2) It can be exceptionally difficult to keep all the balls in the air that one must to keep a busy and growing enterprise on the course headed forward. I am a business of one, and I understand. I work on Porsches, do everything myself, and do ALL of the things necessary to keep things moving forward. At times, it is very difficult, I know that I drop some of the balls some of the time, and I know that I will never be able to maintain the fastest turnover in the world. The only advantage I have in this juggling is that there is no one else to drop the ball for me without me knowing it. As a result, I tend to give a lot of benefit of doubt to owners relying on employees. In the end I rely on the understanding of my customers, and by quite honestly and directly informing them that I will not let them have their cars back until I am satisfied that everything is top notch, I can maintain my high standards, and their ultimate happiness and loyalty.

    Coming up with a truly remarkable and well executed product seems like a difficult task, when in reality the hardest thing to do is to get your product to market successfully, particularly when it is not an in-store-and-out-the-front-door enterprise. I think that CRC is likely learning that right now.

  46. #46
    Radbach
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    My experience with CRC was also a great one and the guys i talked with were great
    including Bill.My frame arrived in pristine condition but i had no parts issue as i hand pick components for my bike builds which i prefer to do rather then buy a build kit. By doing this my Frame shipped the same day i ordered and i recieved it in 4-days and built up that evening.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Paging 170mm 9 zero 7 owners-img_0100.jpg  


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    I sympathize with your situation Spovegas.

    One thing I've learned with shipping, is to reject boxes with damage, or have the shipper take a picture of the damage on the box when it is delivered. Many shippers have a quick easy method to note damage at the time of delivery. It does sound though that there could be a better way to package their materials and to set up some sort of QC section prior to sending out packages.

    I too think that the fat bike boom has caught of the manufacturers/builders off guard. Many if not all of these builders seem to be playing catch up with the trend. This is not meant as an excuse of any kind, but as notice that buyer beware at all times.

    Have fun riding your bike!

  48. #48
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    Nevermind.
    Just answered my own question.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Paging 170mm 9 zero 7 owners-wheels.jpg  


  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by spovegas View Post
    Drive side of an Alfine dynobub.


    Ah ok, just saw this.

    I guess it's obvious if you know what a dynamo hub looks like. I never deal with them.

  50. #50
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    Drive side of an Alfine dynobub.

  51. #51
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    Sorry to hear about the issues but I must say, your orange 907 will look awesome once it is done up!!

  52. #52
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    I love the look of the Ti 9zero7 but Spovegas's experience has shyed me away from any possible issues especially with such a large expense (as far as my finances are concerned). I will look into the Ti mukluk or the Twenty2, both which I think look equally as impressive. I really appreciate the ability to read through a forum and decide what is best for my own interest. Spovegas experience is a perfect example of how a company can use this information and grow or ignore it and fail. Sorry you had to go through this but thanks for outlining it in a sequential, well written post. After all, isn't this the type of information that people surf these sites for.

  53. #53
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    Follow Up

    I've spent a lot more time thinking about and diagnosing my bike since my previous post and wanted to provide this follow-up . . .

    Yesterday I set about to get to the bottom of what was causing my chain rub. Specifically, I wanted to know if there was something wrong with the alignment of the frame or whether it was just a matter of chain rub being inherent with the drivetrain components that were part of the build kit. For anyone interested, I've got a very detailed account of the process I went through and measurements I took, along with a bunch of pictures here. But in summary, I couldn't find any evidence of any frame misalignment issues. In fact, I ended up being very impressed with the quality of the frame. I also came to the conclusion that if everything is set up exactly right, you'll probably have chain rub on the 2012 frame with the Susitna build kit and an endomorph or regular larry on the rear. I also came to the conclusion that with the relatively simple addition of an approximately 2.5 mm thick spacer to the bottom bracket, the rub can be eliminated.

    As for the 2012 9:Zero:7 frame and CRC in general, my opinion is that they are supplying a high quality frame that performs well and that I anticipate will provide me with many hours/miles of fun. I have confidence in it and still want to own it and don't have any plans to send it back. I do believe that they have some serious customer service issues and attitudes that have been exacerbated by a very busy period due to some phenomenal demand. And I do hope that they are listening, as they have indicated, and genuinely see a need for and have a desire to make improvements.

    I think fatbikes are a great addition to how and what we all can do on bikes and want to see this niche flourish. I wish CRC success in getting their customer service issues fixed, and all you current and potential 9:Zero:7 owners success in getting on your bikes and out there riding with a lot less hassle than I've gone through. I hope that my experience was the exception and not the norm.

  54. #54
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    I suspect spacers or lack there of are the cause of most of the chain rub on "stock" builds. Or any build for that matter unless there are cranks that are just manufactured wrong for a fat bike. In the case of bikes that come unassembled, I can see how spacers might get left out. I have two Fatbacks and an original Mukluk built up with 165 rear ends. The Mukluk has the FSA Alpha Drive crank and none of them rub.
    The contention I've read elsewhere that fat bikes were designed around 65mm rims so using anything larger is problematic seems like a lame excuse to me. Obviously once the rims go larger than 82mm and tires wider than an Endo then for this discussion at least all bets are off.
    Latitude 61

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by spovegas View Post
    I also came to the conclusion that with the relatively simple addition of an approximately 2.5 mm thick spacer to the bottom bracket, the rub can be eliminated.
    That's what I said days ago I fixed mine with the spacer solution as described.

    The same issue exists with the 135 frames













    I also had many problems with my build, - poor packaging, parts missing, damaged parts. But none of this matters now because the guys at CRC did a fantastic job resolving all the issues with fantastic customer service to somebody on the other side of the world
    I will deffo be having another bike from them in the future, along with some of the nice parts that are hard to come by in the UK.
    **** happens, it's how we deal with it that matters. I rate the product & service from those guys regardless of the niggles I initially had with my build.
    Drink coffee....ride bikes....eat cake
    http://morayfatbike.blogspot.com

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by sryanak View Post
    I suspect spacers or lack there of are the cause of most of the chain rub on "stock" builds.
    I think you're spot-on.


    Quote Originally Posted by motorman View Post
    That's what I said days ago I fixed mine with the spacer solution as described.


    In hindsight, yeah, you totally called it. Guess I just had to mess with things for a while to get my head around the problem/solution.

    What amazes me about your pics is that the Nate is narrower than the Endo? My calipers wouldn't reach down to the part of the tire that contacts the chain, so that's why I went through all the gyrations with the two levels. Is the dimension shown accurate at the widest point on the tire?

  57. #57
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    The overall width of the tyre is slightly more than shown there, that is just the width of the contact area.
    The chain was rubbing the side if the tyre, not the tread as shown above. Yhat is with 80mm flattops
    I have just put my Larry back on the rear & is is a lot smaller than the nate for sure, lots more room in the stays.
    Drink coffee....ride bikes....eat cake
    http://morayfatbike.blogspot.com

  58. #58
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    My 907 came today. I could not be anymore stoked. Everything was better than expected.
    Thanks to everyone at Chain Reaction. I will try to get some pics up soon.

  59. #59
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    Can anyone comment their experience with the 2012 9 zero 7 in single track, how does it perform in the dry trails with a few small drops,will I be the last one in the trail? Im thinking of going with Maverick SC32 fork, 47mm rims with 3.8 larrys. Suggestions, comments are appreciated. Is a fatback better for this type of setup?

  60. #60
    Wizard of the Trail
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikinmoto View Post
    Can anyone comment their experience with the 2012 9 zero 7 in single track, how does it perform in the dry trails with a few small drops,will I be the last one in the trail? Im thinking of going with Maverick SC32 fork, 47mm rims with 3.8 larrys. Suggestions, comments are appreciated. Is a fatback better for this type of setup?
    On singletrack, the bike performs excellent. It especially shines in steep climbs due to the long chainstays. Very stable and predictable. I may order a second as a back up fatbike.
    There is no charge for awesomeness......or attractiveness.

    Good rep does not wash out the bad, nor the bad the good.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geist262 View Post
    On singletrack, the bike performs excellent. It especially shines in steep climbs due to the long chainstays. Very stable and predictable. I may order a second as a back up fatbike.
    What fork are you using? What rim width?

  62. #62
    Wizard of the Trail
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    Standard 907 aluminum fork with 82mm rolling daryls.
    There is no charge for awesomeness......or attractiveness.

    Good rep does not wash out the bad, nor the bad the good.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikinmoto View Post
    Can anyone comment their experience with the 2012 9 zero 7 in single track, how does it perform in the dry trails with a few small drops,will I be the last one in the trail? Im thinking of going with Maverick SC32 fork, 47mm rims with 3.8 larrys. Suggestions, comments are appreciated. Is a fatback better for this type of setup?
    Taking my new 9zero7 size small 1x9 out tomorrow for it's maiden singletrack run, HD's on 80mm RD. Will give my report after the ride, have a feeling it will be
    Islip, NY
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