New Velocity "mid fat" rim, the Dually- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    New Velocity "mid fat" rim, the Dually

    Thought you guys might be interested in the latest rim offering here at Velocity, the 45mm wide double-walled Dually. It's being offered in 26 & 29" to start, preorders start today.

    New Velocity "mid fat" rim, the Dually-dually-final.jpg

    There's some more info here: Velocity USA: Introducing the "mid fat" 45mm Dually rim

    And here: Velocity Wheels
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  2. #2
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    Tubeless ready, it says.

  3. #3
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    Will you have wide enough tape/conversion kits for these rims to go tubeless?
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  4. #4
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    MMMMMMMM...spokeless.....

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    Might be a pretty nice option for guys wanting to run suspension on their Kampi.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shark View Post
    MMMMMMMM...spokeless.....
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    But how much will they weigh after we drill 'em!

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    These look very interesting.
    Though i wonder if all numbers are correct, this one is doublewalled and claiming 675gr for 29" inch version (600gr for the 26") and the singlewalled Rabbit hole weights 699gr.

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    No spoke holes are shown in the picture: will it be drilled with offset spoke holes (like a Surly Rabbit Hole), or is it center-drilled?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vighor View Post
    These look very interesting.
    Though i wonder if all numbers are correct, this one is doublewalled and claiming 675gr for 29" inch version (600gr for the 26") and the singlewalled Rabbit hole weights 699gr.
    The figures are correct based on the weight of the Dually extrusions we have in-hand. Foot by foot, the 45mm Dually weighs about the same as our Cliffhanger extrusion, so we're pretty confident on the conservative sub-700g figure.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnroyal View Post
    No spoke holes are shown in the picture: will it be drilled with offset spoke holes (like a Surly Rabbit Hole), or is it center-drilled?
    Due to the shape of the rim, it's going to be center drilled to keep the spokes in the spoke bed.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by appleSSeed View Post
    Will you have wide enough tape/conversion kits for these rims to go tubeless?
    Since the rim is going to be center drilled, our 24mm tape and conversion kit should work just fine on the rim, just as with the Blunt 35.
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  13. #13
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    Very nice, I've been a little underwhelmed with the RabbitHoles. And very impressed with the Blunt 35s. The wider rim's only advantage being tire performance at really low pressures.

    The Dually looks to take that single advantage away for me.

    I'm also not a fan of the offset spoke holes on 700c rims. If used with lower flange/narrow flange-to-flange hubs, the dished side can have a very low bracing angle.
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  14. #14
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    You guys make nice rims and I enjoy building with them, riding them, and selling them.

    But...

    ...calling *any* rim you make tubeless ready is, quite frankly, BS. Nothing about the extrusion is made or meant to hold a tire on sans tube. Wrapping it with an overpriced piece of tape does nothing to accomplish this.

    Please stop calling them tubeless ready. In the end, your lawyers are going to advise you to do the same. My intent here is not to slander, but to keep innocent and unsuspecting riders from getting hurt.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-reg View Post
    Very nice, I've been a little underwhelmed with the RabbitHoles.
    What has been the problem with them?
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    You guys make nice rims and I enjoy building with them, riding them, and selling them.

    But...

    ...calling *any* rim you make tubeless ready is, quite frankly, BS. Nothing about the extrusion is made or meant to hold a tire on sans tube. Wrapping it with an overpriced piece of tape does nothing to accomplish this.

    Please stop calling them tubeless ready. In the end, your lawyers are going to advise you to do the same. My intent here is not to slander, but to keep innocent and unsuspecting riders from getting hurt.
    I hear what you're saying and appreciate the fact you're trying to keep us honest, but the fact is that the rim *is* designed differently -- specifically to hold a tire in place sans tube.

    I would like to point out that we do not call all of our rims tubeless- ready. The Dyad, Atlas, Aero, Aerohead, Aeroheat, Deep-V, Fusion, Synergy, NoBS and Chukker are not tubeless ready by our standards, and we wouldn't ever claim they were.

    Now, here's a comparison side-by-side of our first flight A23 (Aussie made, non-tubeless ready) vs. our tubeless ready US made A23. It should be readily apparent that the web and bead are entirely different. The tubeless ready A23 is on the left, the conventional A23 is on the right. Note the shelf on the left A23, designed to keep the tire from "burping" at lower pressure.

    New Velocity "mid fat" rim, the Dually-bead2.jpgNew Velocity "mid fat" rim, the Dually-bead1.jpg

    There's less clearance between the lip and bead for a tighter lock. We get a lot of complaints from consumers trying to mount a conventional tire and tube on our tubeless ready rims when using cloth or plastic rim strips, due to the tighter tolerances of our tubeless ready rims.

    We recently went through and put a disclaimer on all our tubeless ready rims that states we only recommend using a thin tape like our Velotape or Stan's in our tubeless ready rims, just for this reason.

    So in short, the designs are quite a bit different, and when we say "tubeless ready," we are referring to the design of the rim, and not just a tape kit and sealant.
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    baboom!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by seely View Post
    I hear what you're saying and appreciate the fact you're trying to keep us honest, but the fact is that the rim *is* designed differently -- specifically to hold a tire in place sans tube.

    So in short, the designs are quite a bit different, and when we say "tubeless ready," we are referring to the design of the rim, and not just a tape kit and sealant.

    I see the difference you're referring to, and agree that (in theory at least) it does look to be much better.

    The bulk of my experience with your rims, tubeless, is with the P/Blunt 35. I've got several of these on the shelf right now in 26", 650b, and 29". Precisely zero of these have any sort of shelf--they all closely resemble the older, non-tubeless A23 you pictured.

    And there is no way that that rim is safe to run tubeless. Not now, not ever. Without a bead lock it simply can't prevent the bead from moving inward and expelling air. I'll freely admit that I've neither seen nor touched the Dually, so maybe it is different. From the pics you've shared it doesn't appear to be.

    Until I see rims coming through the normal distribution channels with a bead shelf, I stand by what I've said--your tubeless rims are not safe for tubeless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Until I see rims coming through the normal distribution channels with a bead shelf, I stand by what I've said--your tubeless rims are not safe for tubeless.
    You've got me cornfused. I had the Blunt SL 29ers and they have the bead shelf and went tubeless like nobody's business. Never burped.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    What has been the problem with them?
    Nothing I'd call problems really. But the RHs cost ~50.00 US MSRP more, weigh ~100g more, arguably harder to set up tubless, and IMO build a weaker wheel. That's quite a bit of compromise for a small low pressure advantage. The tread profile is nearly the same on either rim, the sidewall has more curve on the 35 of course. But I never felt the need to drop pressures to "fatbike" levels, where the wider rim would have been beneficial.

    I've heard good things about the Kris Holm 29'er rims too, also cheaper than the RH. But heavier, stronger, and 36hole.

    So the RHs aren't necessarily bad, but look at building in to wider hubs or hubs with oversized flanges to help out the spoke geometry. I have a set built with an XT centerlock hub with the spokes going to the corresponding side nipple holes. I'm going to rebuild them with all spokes going to the drive side nipple holes. The relatively small flange 100mm hub with dish for the disc mean that the spokes come off the hub nearly vertical. Not really a big deal, but again an extra consideration/compromise for little gain.
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    Quote Originally Posted by duggus View Post
    You've got me cornfused. I had the Blunt SL 29ers and they have the bead shelf and went tubeless like nobody's business. Never burped.
    I'm glad it's working for you, truly.

    About 20% of the folks I build 'em for have great luck tubeless. The rest, like myself, eventually give up when the frustration and fiddling, and/or obvious potential for injury, become too much.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    I'm glad it's working for you, truly.

    About 20% of the folks I build 'em for have great luck tubeless. The rest, like myself, eventually give up when the frustration and fiddling, and/or obvious potential for injury, become too much.
    That's weird... I really don't know I guess. I had WTB TCS tires and I had zero fiddling... just popped into place.

    Isn't this the bead shelf right here? Taken from this 29inches web page...

    New Velocity "mid fat" rim, the Dually-bluntsl2011-011.jpg
    ...Be careful what you're looking at because it might be looking back...

  23. #23
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    I'm very excited to see these! I see another wheelset in the future for my Krampus

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    Does anyone know the recommended max and min tyre widths?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by lostraveller View Post
    Does anyone know the recommended max and min tyre widths?
    I think we're recommending 45 on up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    I see the difference you're referring to, and agree that (in theory at least) it does look to be much better.

    The bulk of my experience with your rims, tubeless, is with the P/Blunt 35. I've got several of these on the shelf right now in 26", 650b, and 29". Precisely zero of these have any sort of shelf--they all closely resemble the older, non-tubeless A23 you pictured.

    And there is no way that that rim is safe to run tubeless. Not now, not ever. Without a bead lock it simply can't prevent the bead from moving inward and expelling air. I'll freely admit that I've neither seen nor touched the Dually, so maybe it is different. From the pics you've shared it doesn't appear to be.

    Until I see rims coming through the normal distribution channels with a bead shelf, I stand by what I've said--your tubeless rims are not safe for tubeless.
    Are you saying that you don't have or never seen the tubeless design rims pictured above? If not, how can you be so flatulent?

  27. #27
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    New Velocity "mid fat" rim, the Dually

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    I see the difference you're referring to, and agree that (in theory at least) it does look to be much better.

    The bulk of my experience with your rims, tubeless, is with the P/Blunt 35. I've got several of these on the shelf right now in 26", 650b, and 29". Precisely zero of these have any sort of shelf--they all closely resemble the older, non-tubeless A23 you pictured.

    And there is no way that that rim is safe to run tubeless. Not now, not ever. Without a bead lock it simply can't prevent the bead from moving inward and expelling air. I'll freely admit that I've neither seen nor touched the Dually, so maybe it is different. From the pics you've shared it doesn't appear to be.

    Until I see rims coming through the normal distribution channels with a bead shelf, I stand by what I've said--your tubeless rims are not safe for tubeless.
    I agree with Mike. There is more to being a tubeless rim than just having the bead seat shelf, which is part of the standard ISO/ETRO rim spec. The others use the UB (US) rim profile which actually are intended for a tire bead shape not used for modern tires.

    For successful tubeless the bead seat shelf width, inner bead ridge, shelf to sidewall to hook shape, and bead seat diameter are critical.
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  28. #28
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    I cannot find them now - but I swear I saw a set of drilled single wall 700C snow rims on the Velocity web site... I posted a link on the Krampus thread - but it just goes to the Velocity site..
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  29. #29
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    I'm 1 for 2 for running tubeless on P35s. Racing Ralph 2.4s on my hardtail 29er have been bulletproof for an entire season. Big Apple 2.35s were way too loose to even try.

    Love the rims either way...

  30. #30
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    New Velocity "mid fat" rim, the Dually

    ...so then you're 1 for 1?

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by trumpus View Post
    ...so then you're 1 for 1?
    Hmmm... That's a brain teaser. One pair worked out of two attempts. I think 1 AND 1 would be the score, but 1 OF 2 seems like a legitimate tally system as well.

    Will review after copious caffeine ingestion.

  32. #32
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    What is a good "mid fat" tire and do you know what frames will accommodate this combination other than a fat bike frame?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Weinerts View Post
    I cannot find them now - but I swear I saw a set of drilled single wall 700C snow rims on the Velocity web site... I posted a link on the Krampus thread - but it just goes to the Velocity site..
    I remember that. They were white and limited edition. I thought they were maybe a complete pre-built wheelset.
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traktor View Post
    Are you saying that you don't have or never seen the tubeless design rims pictured above? If not, how can you be so flatulent?
    There's 2 people on the forum you should listen to regarding tyres, one is Shiggy, the other is mikesee.

    You don't have to agree with them, but they are speaking from considerable experience.
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by changingleaf View Post
    What is a good "mid fat" tire and do you know what frames will accommodate this combination other than a fat bike frame?
    Pete -- the new Surly Instigator and the Krampus come to mind.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traktor View Post
    Are you saying that you don't have or never seen the tubeless design rims pictured above? If not, how can you be so flatulent?
    How many wheels have you built? I'd like to look at your web site to get an idea of your experience, can you link it here?
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    How many wheels have you built? I'd like to look at your web site to get an idea of your experience, can you link it here?
    I don't have a website. Still, from what I can gather, even from re-reading the post, the guy hasn't even tried the tubeless design rims and makes the jump to call all Velocity rims unsafe for tubeless. Maybe he doesn't think they will work well, maybe they are not readily available - but to call them unsafe never having tried them seems......flatulent.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traktor View Post
    I don't have a website. Still, from what I can gather, even from re-reading the post, the guy hasn't even tried the tubeless design rims and makes the jump to call all Velocity rims unsafe for tubeless. Maybe he doesn't think they will work well, maybe they are not readily available - but to call them unsafe never having tried them seems......flatulent.
    Yeah, you might really do well to look around this forum a bit more and get an idea to whom you're referring before you go shooting your mouth off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Traktor View Post
    I don't have a website. Still, from what I can gather, even from re-reading the post, the guy hasn't even tried the tubeless design rims and makes the jump to call all Velocity rims unsafe for tubeless. Maybe he doesn't think they will work well, maybe they are not readily available - but to call them unsafe never having tried them seems......flatulent.
    Polite and direct: the person's opinion you are questioning is a professional wheel builder. He's seen their product, built with their product and ridden their product. New product design has been equated to old products (by manufacturer voice) which he has in his stock room. You do not have to agree with the opinion, but you can't question the credentials which have led to the informed opinion.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    There's 2 people on the forum you should listen to regarding tyres, one is Shiggy, the other is mikesee.

    You don't have to agree with them, but they are speaking from considerable experience.
    Quote Originally Posted by MauricioB View Post
    Yeah, you might really do well to look around this forum a bit more and get an idea to whom you're referring before you go shooting your mouth off.
    Quote Originally Posted by bme107 View Post
    Polite and direct: the person's opinion you are questioning is a professional wheel builder. He's seen their product, built with their product and ridden their product. New product design has been equated to old products (by manufacturer voice) which he has in his stock room. You do not have to agree with the opinion, but you can't question the credentials which have led to the informed opinion.
    Funny thing is I neg repped him with the same flatulence comment he made about Mike and he neg repped me back for irrelevant person insult- LOL
    Last edited by TwoTone; 08-06-2013 at 12:22 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traktor View Post
    I don't have a website. Still, from what I can gather, even from re-reading the post, the guy hasn't even tried the tubeless design rims and makes the jump to call all Velocity rims unsafe for tubeless. Maybe he doesn't think they will work well, maybe they are not readily available - but to call them unsafe never having tried them seems......flatulent.
    The way I read it was that a very high percentage have difficulty making tubeless work. Fair comment.

    Bearing in mind that many of the old hands here use their fatbikes to go into very remote places, some conservatism regarding equipment is to be expected. It's one thing to have something on the bike fail at a trail park, and a completely different thing if it happens hundreds of miles from anywhere.

    If you just want to play at trail parks, then you don't need to listen to mikesee, but if you want to go far into the hinterland it's very much worth listening to him.

    So far on this forum we have managed to avoid the unpleasantness that blights other forums. It would be decent if you retracted that flatulent remark. (You don't have to agree with him)

    And as MauricioB suggests it's worth checking back posts of anyone you disagree with before posting antagonistic replies. In my opinion there's more depth of experience here in this forum in practical bike technicals than most of the other forums.
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    I'm excited for this. When will QBP have them? Or should we just call Velocity direct? Slightly less convenient, however.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmucker View Post
    I'm excited for this. When will QBP have them? Or should we just call Velocity direct? Slightly less convenient, however.
    QBP is getting a good chunk of our first shipment, which we're expecting early fall, or *maybe* late summer (fingers crossed)... they'll have them about the same time we do.
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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    [...] In my opinion there's more depth of experience here in this forum in practical bike technicals than most of the other forums.
    Precisely because we have very little patience for uninformed, antagonistic mambling.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    If you just want to play at trail parks, then you don't need to listen to mikesee, but if you want to go far into the hinterland it's very much worth listening to him.
    If you are going downhill on a rocky trail at 30mph and have a front tubeless failure the consequences are pretty grim.

    My buddy who owns a LBS won't work with any "ghetto" tubeless setups after 2 riders were killed trail riding in his area due to tubeless failures.

    So I would be just as concerned about this issue if you are a day rider on your local trails.
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  46. #46
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    No ghetto tubeless for me. I'll wait for a proper setup.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    If you are going downhill on a rocky trail at 30mph and have a front tubeless failure the consequences are pretty grim.

    My buddy who owns a LBS won't work with any "ghetto" tubeless setups after 2 riders were killed trail riding in his area due to tubeless failures.

    So I would be just as concerned about this issue if you are a day rider on your local trails.
    Vik, I know that this thread is not the place...but I would be very interested to hear of some of the mishaps that are credited to tubeless failures.

    Most interested into the how and why of that conclusion. A tall wide tire with a sudden loss of air at speed...can't be good though. Are all disastrous reports occurring with speed?

    One way to find out.

    Care to lead off with a thread on that topic...can't say that there has been one?

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sand Rat View Post

    Care to lead off with a thread on that topic...can't say that there has been one?
    I don't know much more than I have posted. I personally haven't had a tubeless failure, but I'm pretty picky about what rims/tires I use and how they are setup.

    My friend who owns the LBS is in a position like Mike C and Shiggy where he sees more product than us regular folks plus and is plugged into the industry and local riding community well. He's given me a few bits of advice over the years and everything he has told me has been 100%.

    I'm not an expert of tubeless tires/rims....the point I wanted to make was just that everyone should be concerned about their tubeless setups and safety - not just the expedition types.
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  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    If you are going downhill on a rocky trail at 30mph and have a front tubeless failure the consequences are pretty grim...
    I hadn't thought of that aspect.

    Mainly because I'm never likely to be going downhill at 30mph.

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  50. #50
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    Will the Dually be produced in a 36h variety?

  51. #51
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    So there must be a liitle "edge" inside the rim to hold the tire safely? I zoomed the rabbithole drawing in the surly 2014 catalogue - and there are edges - look at the attached picture!

    So the rabbithole is more tubeless safely than the dually?Name:  rabbithole.png
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  52. #52
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    Reps aside, I have two Velocity P35 running tubeless on an off road unicycle, one with a Knard 29, the other with a Hans Dampf Super G.

    At 200# I am no lightweight, and I put waaaaay more sideload and compressive load on my tires than any two wheeler, yet other than the occassional burp, they are steady performers.

    I agree that a good tubeless rim will have a shelf, shelfhook, and lip hook so the tire bead locks into place, BUT even that will not prevent a tire from pushing out of the hook with sufficient side loading.

    You guys are being overly critical, kinda OCD really, maybe you need to cut back on the caffeine??? The worst flats I have had were blow outs from tubes splitting and a tire bead blowing off the rim (bad tire).

    There are no guarantees in life, all you can do is base your decisions on what you observe. I am far more worried about crashing into a tree than I am about a tire blowing off a rim.
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  53. #53
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    A little side by side comparison.

    Name:  Dually-profile-web_1.png
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    Just took delivery of a Dually 29 this week! Just waiting on a WTB Laserdisc Lite hub to show up and I'll have it laced up.

    I'm still up in the air about which tire to try first. I really want to get my hands on the new Dirt Wizard 29x2.7 from Surly, but there is no news when that will be available. I have an older Ardent 2.4 I could throw on.

    Currently I'm using a Niner carbon fork, but may grab a Karate Monkey fork if there is not enough clearance. I'll post pics once the wheel is done.

  55. #55
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    I wouldn't hold your breathe on the DW. It will come when it comes. Could be next March.

    What bike is the dually going on?
    Safe riding,

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    I have to admit I have a bit of fat bike envy, so I plan to give my SIR9 a chubby front. It's currently set up rigid with an Ardent 2.4 on Arch in the front which I really like, but I thought a wider rim and lower PSI might make it a little more compliant.

  57. #57
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    Any ride reports yet guys? Also how well they set up tubeless with Knards?
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    bead lock and angled spoke holes, aka, WTB TCS would make me warm and fuzzy.
    otherwise the occasional burp , on a front wheel, will cost me a collar bone , especially the rock gardens I ride. sure it's gonna be fine for most, but that does not mean it's correct. maybe ride the dually in rear in rabbit-hole in front , for my fuzzy collarbone feeling ?!

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    When oh when oh when? Got my knards in today, Krampus tomorrow, just waiting on the Duallys so I can get them built up!

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    Lots of talk in this thread about tubeless use with this rim. Would be nice to see some pics from anyone who has gotten hands on these rims. A good shot of the seating area and thougths would be appreciated.

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    I will happily oblige as soon as I get them in my grimy little hands!

  62. #62
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    You guys realized that SnowCat rims are 44mm wide and have been available for like 20 years, right?
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    Would nipple washers help building up P35s ?
    I have a pair, but not sure what size rear tire will work tubeless...a 2.4 would be too big I'm sure. I got some Vee Rubber Speed R 29 x 2.40 I want to use...hoping they'll work tube less and fit inside a 2011 Recon Silver fork.but from what i'm reading...it might be too big up front as well.
    ...any suggestions?
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  64. #64
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    Crossing my fingers these will be offered in the same swanky anodized flavors as the Blunt 35.
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  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by A1an View Post
    Crossing my fingers these will be offered in the same swanky anodized flavors as the Blunt 35.
    That would be cool, but I bet it'll take a few years and a few more 29+ bikes to get to that point.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by A1an View Post
    Crossing my fingers these will be offered in the same swanky anodized flavors as the Blunt 35.
    Right now we're doing Black and Polished primarily, and a few special request Mill finish (no finish). Down the road we're going to look more at color options.
    bike dude, velocity employee (this is my personal account)

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    I have heard that 45mm and up tires will fit, and I have mainly heard talk about the 29er(622ISO), but it also comes in 26"(559), so would that mean it can use any 26" tire wider than 45mm, including Bud and Lou 4.8". I don't think it would be dangerous, but that is well over the common 2:1 recommendation(120mm tire, 39mm rim[iso width]).

    the inside width is very close to a 47mm trials rim, so up to 4.0" labeled tires should work, as they are commonly used on the trials rims.

    just to put my 2 cents in on tubeless ready rims, noting that I have not that much experience with tubeless bicycle tires, I don't think the dually, or P35, or even the new version rim in the left side of the picture look particularly well suited to running low pressures while tubeless. They may be great at allowing the tire to inflate easily, but don't look very adept at holding it to the sidewall with anything other than air pressure, or a bit of friction from a tight fitting tire bead, which cannot be counted on with bicycle tires.

    I do have some experience with tubeless tires for 4 wheeled vehicles running fairly low pressures(10-20psi), which of course have much higher side loads being vertical when turning, and a bump, lip in the extrusion or protrusion behind the bead seat is critical in keeping the tires from burping at lower pressures. Of course, sometimes bead locks that clamp the tires to the rim with a metal ring and bolts are used, not only to keep the tires from slipping under engine or brake torque, but to keep them from loosing air. That would definitely be too heavy, and negate any tubeless benefits on a bicycle though.

    As far as my experience with bicycle tires and rims, the Surly rim I have(Marge lite) has a nice bead lip, and I may try tubeless on it, But the OnOne rims and the Neon trials rims look like they are better off just sticking to tubes, even though they do have a bead shelf. If I were to get some Duallies, I would probably give it a shot, if the tires fit pretty tight, but I would be leery of running less than 12psi or so, which is about what I'm limited to even with tubes on the OnOne rims.

    But, overall, I really like the Dually, just wish they could have gone a little farther with the tubeless idea and put some bead nips, or whatever you want to call the ridge behind the tire bead on the bead shelf. Even if running higher pressures, it is good to have the security in case you are loosing air somewhere else, then hit a rock or something at a bad angle.

    I really like the profile of the Spank Stiffy rim. It is a little bit heavier of an extrusion to be bulletproof for downhill, etc. With that profile and thinner extrusion in a wider(50mm) width would be a great trail wheel for fat bikes that get hammered hard. I contacted them once sometime late last year or early this year to see if they were interested in maybe doing a 50-65mm for fat bikes, and they said no, but things may change.

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    Not disagreeing with anyone here, more of a question... is anyone planning on running pressures that low, 10-12psi? I don't think of these as much as fat tire rims as 29+ (maybe cause I plan on using these on my Krampus). On my SS with Flows and 2.3" tires, I run around 28psi. I am 6'5" at 220 lbs, and was thinking I could drop to low to mid 20s psi.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatlip11 View Post
    Not disagreeing with anyone here, more of a question... is anyone planning on running pressures that low, 10-12psi? I don't think of these as much as fat tire rims as 29+ (maybe cause I plan on using these on my Krampus). On my SS with Flows and 2.3" tires, I run around 28psi. I am 6'5" at 220 lbs, and was thinking I could drop to low to mid 20s psi.
    I'm 175lbs and usually riding with 40lbs of clothes, gear, food. I'm not great about measuring pressure, but I figure I'm around 20 psi +/-2 psi. I'd be pinch flatting every 5mins at 10 psi.
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  70. #70
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    I'm usually around 230-240lbs plus riding gear and run my rear at 17-18 and front at 14-15 with Rabbit Holes. I suspect I might need a little more if I switch to the Dually's. I'm also running a suspension fork.
    The LPG

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    Thanks y'all, that helps a bit. As you can see by my post count, I am no pro at this!

  72. #72
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    New Velocity "mid fat" rim, the Dually

    Quote Originally Posted by autodoctor911 View Post
    I have heard that 45mm and up tires will fit, and I have mainly heard talk about the 29er(622ISO), but it also comes in 26"(559), so would that mean it can use any 26" tire wider than 45mm, including Bud and Lou 4.8". I don't think it would be dangerous, but that is well over the common 2:1 recommendation(120mm tire, 39mm rim[iso width]).
    It will fit, but IME I would never ride a 45mm tire on a 50mm rim. 52-54mm (~2.2") is as narrow as I would go.

    Using a tire about the same width as the rim can result in the tire feeling harsh and dead. Poor ride. Poor handling. Also increases the chance of pinch flats and sidewall damage.

    I have tried the Big Fat Larry 4.5 on a 45mm rim, too. Had it peel off twice. Once on the trail. Once in the shop, just sitting there overnight.
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  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    It will fit, but IME I would never ride a 45mm tire on a 50mm rim. 52-54mm (~2.2") is as narrow as I would go.

    Using a tire about the same width as the rim can result in the tire feeling harsh and dead. Poor ride. Poor handling. Also increases the chance of pinch flats and sidewall damage.

    I have tried the Big Fat Larry 4.5 on a 45mm rim, too. Had it peel off twice. Once on the trail. Once in the shop, just sitting there overnight.
    the BFLs aren't much wider than a clown shoe are they? Isn't it pretty close to 1:1?
    and, aren't some people putting 3.8-4.0 tires on 100mm rims. that would be a tire narrower than the rim. I wouldn't do it.

    I have heard people on here argue that using a wider rim, close to or even wider than the tire will make it ride better and less likely to pinch flat due to greater air volume. I disagreed.

  74. #74
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    I find the Larry/Endos I've got on my Pugs on 82mm rims don't have a great shape for dirt riding. They were better on 65mm rims. I suspect the sand flotation would be better though, but I haven't had the opportunity to verify that yet.
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  75. #75
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    I had an old trashed 26" wheel (24mm I think) I mounted my beat up old huskerduda on it for laughs - the profile looks awesome, makes me wanna ride on it.
    Should take a pic or it's just make believe right! Puts the knardsONrabbits to shame.

  76. #76
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    anybody riding them ? reviews ?
    be nice to get some tire measurements, to figure out frame clearance ?

  77. #77
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    Well I finally got my wheel built and my order for some big rubber in. It's the Velocity Dually 29" with a WTB Laserdisc Lite QR9. I need to weigh it, but it doesn't feel heavy.

    First I tried an Ardent 2.4 on the Dually because I was still waiting on my Knard order. Only took one ride with this setup, but I liked it. I didn't get any measurements, but to my eye the Dually didn't cause the Ardent casing width to be much wider. The profile definitely flattened out though and the traction was great. The bead was incredibly tight on this rim and very difficult to unmount.

    Then I got the Knard and immediately threw that on. Wow! The difference in volume was huge and the Ardent is a big tire. I measured the casing at 71.8mm and the tread at 74.9. This left about 3-4mm of clearance on the sides of the tire in my Niner carbon fork.

    Unfortunately we have been under monsoon conditions in the DC area for the past several days, so I have not had a proper ride on it. I did take it up to the local park that has just a little bit of dirt back in the woods and rode it around. It was setup at 15psi with a tube and I was having a ball monster-trucking over the roots and small stuff. I can't wait to actually take a real ride on this thing!

    Mandatory pictures attached.

    New Velocity "mid fat" rim, the Dually-img_0873.jpgNew Velocity "mid fat" rim, the Dually-img_0877.jpgNew Velocity "mid fat" rim, the Dually-img_0879.jpgNew Velocity "mid fat" rim, the Dually-img_0881.jpg

  78. #78
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    thanks for the post.
    notes:
    went to local bike shop, with brand new krampus , brought my bike
    an AM 29er Norco, and tried to jam it in,...the rear;
    it ain't not spinning, measured 84mm, maybe it was stretched out ;
    was so bummed, did not try the front.
    your carbon fork, be short lived, with tire rub...
    waiting for some Dirt Wizard news.
    my guess pi multipled by my thumb, on existing tire, existing rims
    new inner - old inner / 3.14 /2
    39 -23 ; 16 / 3.14 ; 5.09 / 2 = 2.54mm+ on each side wider (tire)
    tall, 3.14/2 * 2.54 = 3.98mm taller

    be nice to see some measurements , to see if the formula is any good for real live.
    since I got plenty of tires , who did not measure up to the advertised width.
    hop the wide rim will fix that.

  79. #79
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    Interesting front brake cable routing. Has the tire ever rubbed it?
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  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by lancelot View Post
    Interesting front brake cable routing. Has the tire ever rubbed it?
    Seems a bit sketchy to me too but then i'm anal about that sorta stuff.

  81. #81
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    Fortunately the tire does not rub the brake cable or the inside of the fork. I wouldn't keep this setup otherwise. There is plenty of clearance around it. The brake cable does rub the inside of the fork a little, but I have some of those clear decals protecting the fork and the frame where the cable comes into contact.

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtcallahan View Post

    Mandatory pictures attached.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Looks awesome! This is what I was hoping to run (Dually + Knard on Niner fork). Forgive my ignorance, but can I purchase a complete wheel from anywhere yet?

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtcallahan View Post
    Fortunately the tire does not rub the brake cable or the inside of the fork. I wouldn't keep this setup otherwise. There is plenty of clearance around it.
    Per the static pics I agree there is plenty of clearance however when out and about bouncing up n down trails the cable will be subject to movement in a downward direction (only)and in the path of a rotating tire which has the potential for brake line failure yes?

  84. #84
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    That tire is gonna rub for sure. Looks good though. Wish I could find a set of Duallys in stock somewhere.
    Rudy Projects look ridiculous

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  85. #85
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    I have a few sets of Dually's in stock in 29", black and silver, 32h.

    Only thing that's kept me from lacing a set for myself are, um, these.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    I have a few sets of Dually's in stock in 29", black and silver, 32h.

    Only thing that's kept me from lacing a set for myself are, um, these.
    Mikesee, you questioned the tubeless interface of the Dually at one point. Now that you have them in your hands, are these rim different that other Velocity models?

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Danger View Post
    Mikesee, you questioned the tubeless interface of the Dually at one point. Now that you have them in your hands, are these rim different that other Velocity models?
    You can see in pic in the original post that there is no lip to keep the bead from sliding inward on this extrusion. So while I don't doubt that they can be made to bead-up and hold air tubeless, I'd never, ever recommend riding them that way. I consider it unsafe, especially given the low PSI's that (most, not all) will be running their Knards on these rims.

    Short answer = no, not really different.

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    Your guys focus on the brake routing got me concerned, so I rerouted outside the fork.

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    You can see in pic in the original post that there is no lip to keep the bead from sliding inward on this extrusion. So while I don't doubt that they can be made to bead-up and hold air tubeless, I'd never, ever recommend riding them that way. I consider it unsafe, especially given the low PSI's that (most, not all) will be running their Knards on these rims.

    Short answer = no, not really different.
    Bummer! Guess I'll stay with my Rabbit Holes for awhile.
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  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtcallahan View Post
    Your guys focus on the brake routing got me concerned, so I rerouted outside the fork.
    I'ts rare i make any sort of sense but if I do it's because i stay @ a Holiday Inn Express when on vaca.

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtcallahan View Post
    Your guys focus on the brake routing got me concerned, so I rerouted outside the fork.
    I just saw that, concerned!

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    I built these up last night. Polished silver Duallys, White Industries hubs, Wheelsmith DB14 spokes and alloy nipples - just over 2300g (rims were 680g and 682g, ERD 607mm measuring to top of nipple), all made in the USA.

    'Merica!





    They were kind of a PITA to work with, there were a lot of chips floating around inside the rims that had to be shaken out and lots of polishing compound still on/in them. Inside the tire bed and caked inside spoke holes. They built up nice though, they feel really light for such a wide rim.

  93. #93
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    Sweet!

    I recall my P35s had a massivly annoying amount shavings trapped inside.
    Slowly slipping to retrogrouchyness

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgaddis1 View Post
    I built these up last night. Polished silver Duallys, White Industries hubs, Wheelsmith DB14 spokes and alloy nipples - just over 2300g (rims were 680g and 682g, ERD 607mm measuring to top of nipple), all made in the USA.

    'Merica!





    They were kind of a PITA to work with, there were a lot of chips floating around inside the rims that had to be shaken out and lots of polishing compound still on/in them. Inside the tire bed and caked inside spoke holes. They built up nice though, they feel really light for such a wide rim.
    Killer build, & thanks for the feedback -- the polishing compound is a bit of an annoyance. Our polisher cleans the rims but it seems there's always a bit trapped on the inside. We'll look more into what we can do about that and the 'swarth' that gets trapped in the drilling process.
    bike dude, velocity employee (this is my personal account)

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    Enjoy the shiny now boys, cause they are getting dirty this weekend! They look amazing Dustin, can't wait to get them on my Krampus. Will post pics when mounted.

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    Are they clear coated after polishing?
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    Well... that was not pleasurable! They ain't shiny no more as they are covered in Orange Seal.
    Got the wheels this morning and decided to mount the Knards and pump 'em up. I did my usual routine of soaping and then pumping the tires up without sealant first to get them seated.
    Nope, they were going to need a compressor instead of my floor pump. Took them to my LBS and used their compressor. Lots of sealant ended up on the floor. Now I am not sure if they have enough sealant in them after it was shooting out the sides.
    Problem is, Orange Seal recommends 3-4 oz per tire for a 29er, with Stan's I have always used 2 oz, but since this is a bigger tire I went ahead and put 4 in each... end of bottle. LBS does not carry Oranges Seal, not sure if I can mix Stan's with them or not.
    Left them at the LBS with my Krampus build on their sides and asked the mechanics to flip them occasionally, hopefully when I go in tomorrow to pick up my bike they will have sealed.
    The wheels look great, the seam in the rim doesn't look fantastic but everything else is good.
    Dustin at Southern Wheelworks did an awesome job on the build and answered all 4,000 of my questions without a complaint. Great customer service for sure.
    Will update later with photos.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgaddis1 View Post

    I'm surprised you didn't build your wheels so the valve was in the large spoke gap. Was this on purpose? Reasoning?

    If you're not sure what I mean, here is a picture from Sheldon Brown's site.


  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasquatch rides a SS View Post
    I'm surprised you didn't build your wheels so the valve was in the large spoke gap. Was this on purpose? Reasoning?

    If you're not sure what I mean, here is a picture from Sheldon Brown's site.

    It's just the angle of the picture. Valves are always between two parallel spokes! Hers another picture, the duallys and two other wheels I laced up that same night:


  100. #100
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    Wow, that picture fooled me

  101. #101
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    I am losing my shit waiting for these to actually be in stock. I have every other part. Several delays on other things but now still waiting for rims. I see that others are getting them and I have no idea why. What the hell is going on?

  102. #102
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    I preordered mine a month ago, maybe they are still filling those orders?

  103. #103
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    Tho most probably they're fulfilling orders. We're waiting for our batch as well

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    First ride... I got them to seal today. I think they lost too much sealant yesterday while inflating so I added a couple of ozs to each tire and they are holding now... we'll see tomorrow.
    These pics show the tire at 25lbs which is too much, I will drop that tomorrow to see where the sweet spot is for me. It's been raining here so I didn't get to play around as much as I'd hoped. There is still some scuzz leftover from the sealant, but the rims look great.
    The Knard looks to be 3 1/4" from edge to edge.New Velocity "mid fat" rim, the Dually-tireside01sm.jpgNew Velocity "mid fat" rim, the Dually-krampusforksm.jpgNew Velocity "mid fat" rim, the Dually-rulersm.jpg

  105. #105
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    Can we please move to metric stone-age is over.

  106. #106
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    Just flip the ruler over! Damn, I gotta do everything?!?

  107. #107
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    What did those rims weigh?
    CRAMBA Chairman

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    Quote Originally Posted by vseb View Post
    Not disagreeing with anyone here, more of a question... is anyone planning on running pressures that low, 10-12psi? I don't think of these as much as fat tire rims as 29+ (maybe cause I plan on using these on my Krampus). On my SS with Flows and 2.3" tires, I run around 28psi. I am 6'5" at 220 lbs, and was thinking I could drop to low to mid 20s psi.
    I'm 176lbs and usually riding with 40lbs of clothes, gear, food. I'm not great about measuring pressure, but I figure I'm around 20 psi +/-2 psi. I'd be pinch flatting every 5mins at 10 psi.

  109. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBlue777c View Post
    I'm 176lbs and usually riding with 40lbs of clothes, gear, food. I'm not great about measuring pressure, but I figure I'm around 20 psi +/-2 psi. I'd be pinch flatting every 5mins at 10 psi.
    +1 - same here - I ride rocky rooty trails. I run 20/22 psi in 2.4" tires so I'm probably a bit lower in the Knards, but I don't measure precisely.

    My GF could probably ride Knards close to 10psi.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thickfog View Post
    What did those rims weigh?
    The two I built (on Fatlip's bike) were 680g and 682g.

  111. #111
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    Can you post a pic of the Krampus with the all silver wheels?

    Also, if they are not clear coated wont they end up looking like shit in no time? Hazy and black oxidized smudges?
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    I was going to wait until I got everything tweaked out and then post it on the Krampus builds thread.
    Dunno about the clear coat, I sure hope so... I would rather ride than polish!

    Here y'ar!

    New Velocity "mid fat" rim, the Dually-krampusfullfrsm.jpg

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    I thought I would update... a week or so in and I am very happy with the duallys. They hold air well, I haven't had to add any air. I have done a few 1.5'-2' drops and have had no burps.
    I think my original mistake while trying to get a good seal was too much air in the Knards (35lbs). Next time I would probably stop at 25lbs and let them sit to seal. I would still pump them up first without sealant to get them to pop on the rim but then use lower pressure with sealant.
    That's my take on it anyway, live and learn I reckon!

  114. #114
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    My tubeless setup: One layer of gorilla tape and WTB valves.
    I put a tube in and inflated to set one bead, then had to use a compressor to get the other bead to pop. I put three cups of Stan's in each tire and inflated to 30psi. Did the shakey-dance and set each wheel on their side. Only one bead was very leaky on each tire. Then they were done. Super easy. If the pressure gets down to the middle single digits I can make the bead leak with my thumb so if you want to run low more safely I'd build up the rim a little bit.

  115. #115
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    Tonight I built up a set of black 29er Dually rims on DT 350 hubs with DT Comp spokes and aluminum nipples. Knard 120tpi tubeless with Stan's tape.

    Compared to the stock Krampus wheels (RH rims, Surly front, Shimano M525 rear hub, DT straight gauge spokes and 27tpi Knards tubeless w Gorilla tape) the new wheels are 1025 grams lighter.

  116. #116
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    What tension is everyone shooting for?

    Using the 604 ERD I'm getting a spoke length of 293 ish rear on both sides and 292 front non drive side (disk side) using CK hubs and a SS rear. 3x.
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  117. #117
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    Bump! Planning to lace these up this weekend, what tension levels should I shoot for? 110 or so?
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  118. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatlip11 View Post
    I was going to wait until I got everything tweaked out and then post it on the Krampus builds thread.
    Dunno about the clear coat, I sure hope so... I would rather ride than polish!

    Here y'ar!

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Can we get a side shot of the bike? I just want to appreciate the silver hoops in all their glory.
    Safe riding,

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  119. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by appleSSeed View Post
    Bump! Planning to lace these up this weekend, what tension levels should I shoot for? 110 or so?

    I did 110kgf on the rear DS, 100kgf on the front NDS. Don't want to go too high, that long flat fairly thin cross section would be prone to cracking at higher tensions I imagine.

  120. #120
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    Think 293 for all would be ok?
    Rudy Projects look ridiculous

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    Quote Originally Posted by appleSSeed View Post


    Think 293 for all would be ok?
    My eyes aren't good enough to read that...

    A few standard spoke length ?'s:
    -Did you measure the rims yourself?
    -Do you measure to the end of the nipple, or to the bottom of the slot in the nipple?

  122. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmucker View Post
    If the pressure gets down to the middle single digits I can make the bead leak with my thumb so if you want to run low more safely I'd build up the rim a little bit.
    Build the rim up? You mean with multiple layers of tape? How wide?

  123. #123
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    Dually 26

    I'd post this as a review, but the Dually is not listed. I owned two Dually 26 rims briefly. They were returned to my LBS after I took the plastic wrap off and found several cracks in the outer wall. The photos show only a small area on each rim, there were more cracks around the circumference. Very disappointed. I hope this is a problem that Velocity can resolve, until then I would recommend checking your Duallys for cracks. I will probably wait until Stans 50 mm rim is available.
    New Velocity "mid fat" rim, the Dually-velocity-dually-26-2.jpg
    New Velocity "mid fat" rim, the Dually-velocity-dually-26.jpg

  124. #124
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    got some 29" Dually built up at the local bike shop.
    before putting on some tape, found some dings, and don't think the bike shop is throwing around the rims. the way they looked, it was anodized afterwards.
    not good. also all the holes have sharp edges, ok, exacto knife out another half hour and then vacuuming the splinter. put the tape on, ok, 1,2,3 ; 1x in the middle, and 2 outside. that means more then 1 roll. the valve hole, had also sharp edges, and is really small, why ? ever seen the stans tubeless valves, this suppose to be tubeless ready , remember ,.... fix this. put on an conti MK II, loose, ok, lets see, airs up, but leaks, leaks the balls, did it 2x. using fenwicks goop. took it for a slow ride, had to constantly air it up. ok, take my maxxis , chunky monkey, that one seals up, even without goop, usually ride around 18psi with it. that one leaks too.
    how many layers does it take ? 20 bucks extra, come on, why.
    and no beadlock !? no, not even a straight shelf, tapers right off. not good.
    maybe good to get the tire on, especially off, in the most inconvenient time .
    at least one hurray, the the spoke holes, did not come in a straight line, a little offset spread, still not angled, but it's a start.
    have not tried a UST tire, like the wtb bronson, but what's the point, with that rim, want beefy 2.4,2.5 maxxis DH tires, conti trail kings , etc, maybe some lighter schwalbes, point is, tolerances need to be tighter. should'nt need 20 foot of tape, should work just covering up the hole.
    guess I'll buy some more tape by the bucket; have an minion DHR II waiting and TK coming. in comparison wtb tis is painless.
    - no shiny polished available
    - holes have sharp edges
    - valve hole to small
    - no bead lock
    - bead shelf, has no straight ledge
    - banged up and scratched out of the box
    - made in the USA sticker, would wait on that one, till you get it right
    - one more where it is pinned, sharp edge !?

    guess I got to get some steel wool by the bucket too.
    should invest in the dremel, to at least get the edge on the pinned section smooth.

    wanna try again, send me 2 build.

    one more, maybe measuring it, and put it on the label, so we get an idea , how many layers of tape. cheers , Rob

  125. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgaddis1 View Post
    I did 110kgf on the rear DS, 100kgf on the front NDS. Don't want to go too high, that long flat fairly thin cross section would be prone to cracking at higher tensions I imagine.
    We've been building to our usual 120kgf DS for what it's worth, haven't seen any problems thus far. Anything in the 110-120 range should be okay, I'd imagine.
    bike dude, velocity employee (this is my personal account)

  126. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by appleSSeed View Post
    Can you post a pic of the Krampus with the all silver wheels?

    Also, if they are not clear coated wont they end up looking like shit in no time? Hazy and black oxidized smudges?
    We've never clear coated our polished rims, and they've held up great in long-term testing. No more cleaning or maintenance than any other finish we've tried.
    bike dude, velocity employee (this is my personal account)

  127. #127
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    My Dually & Blunt 35 both arrived yesterday and I'm bummed to say that mine have the same list of issues that Rob & Flying Squirrel report. I'll talk a better look at them tonight and see if I can make them work. Not too excited about having to send them back but that might be what I have to do...

  128. #128
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    update:
    since I wanted to ride, I stuck a tube in the rear. with a fat tire and tube, it's no fun riding. since you still got to have it aired up enough , not to pinch-flat. so no points here.
    took the front to prep, scraped all the edges off the holes, and dings.
    got some kichen scrubs, steel wool, and the plastic pads, for the pan, went to town,
    and scrubed all the inside of the rim.
    dug out an maxxis DHR II, one of my new favorites, besides the chunky monkey,
    put a center layer on the rim, used soap water, on the bead, aired up with floor pump, getting strong arms by now,...
    no pops, leaks, argh, beads ok, still farts when pinched, what is that ? why ?
    major leak, around the valve !! took a break, refuel, get a heini, ponder.
    ok, time to fix that. measure, drill, alu, check, ok ready, drill 6.9mm rim out.
    argh, have to waste more stans tape, no,; drill through the tape, tapered degrate 30deg,
    used exacto knife to remove frazzled edges. back to mounting, pumping, soap water.
    got one pop, 50psi. no leak on valve.
    back to home depot, for some rubber tape, extra thick vinyl, low temp high grade.
    next, to use 0.9mm rubber tape, to create a bead-lock .
    oh, no sealant on the DHR II, usually use Fenwicks blue soup. for now I'll test without the goop. michelins wild'race, also hold air without it. but the roots, cut of stumps, and thorns, rip it to shreds. also at low psi, especially in the rear, it's just to wobbly .
    since the MK II 2.4 did not hold. also leaks on sidewalls, without stans.
    thinking, I'll go with the 1kg, wtb TCS AM vigilante to test further. they are UST tires, with extra heavy sidewalls. should fit the bill, in the rear. still want to get some TK II, 2.4 in BC protection to try.
    back to bead-lock, definitely want it, especially in the front, thought the rear will see a lot more torque and side pressure.
    give me a tickle, will order more rubber to test, cheers, Rob

  129. #129
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    150 technical rocky miles on a pair of 29er Dually rims with Knards, ghetto tubeless. Almost all loaded bikepacking. I'm 180 lbs.

    Zero issues.

  130. #130
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    Just finishing building my Duallys. I'll be trying to make them go tubeless tonight or tomorrow morning with Knards. BUT, my current plan to build up a bead lip with super thin strips of tape, then go over the whole thing with a layer Gorilla tape. Maybe two layers if they won't inflate easily.

    I've got Velocity tubeless valves which fit with zero hassle.

  131. #131
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    I have several hundred miles on a pair of 26er Dually rims. Used 25mm stans tape and have a Husker Du on the front with a Knard on the rear. So far everything has been flawless. They built up really well, set them up easily tubeless with a hand pump, 2 scoops of stans sealant and they have been holding air really well. I have done a couple races on them as well as hard riding and generally run 9-11psi with no burps or other issues. Any lower than that and I was running into issues with the tire getting floppy under hard cornering. I weigh in around 200lbs and ride pretty aggressively so I feel like I have given them a good test up to this point. So far I am very impressed with them.

  132. #132
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    Is tubeless really worth it? I guess I just don't get it.

    Quote Originally Posted by rschultz101 View Post
    update:
    since I wanted to ride, I stuck a tube in the rear. with a fat tire and tube, it's no fun riding. since you still got to have it aired up enough , not to pinch-flat. so no points here.
    took the front to prep, scraped all the edges off the holes, and dings.
    got some kichen scrubs, steel wool, and the plastic pads, for the pan, went to town,
    and scrubed all the inside of the rim.
    dug out an maxxis DHR II, one of my new favorites, besides the chunky monkey,
    put a center layer on the rim, used soap water, on the bead, aired up with floor pump, getting strong arms by now,...
    no pops, leaks, argh, beads ok, still farts when pinched, what is that ? why ?
    major leak, around the valve !! took a break, refuel, get a heini, ponder.
    ok, time to fix that. measure, drill, alu, check, ok ready, drill 6.9mm rim out.
    argh, have to waste more stans tape, no,; drill through the tape, tapered degrate 30deg,
    used exacto knife to remove frazzled edges. back to mounting, pumping, soap water.
    got one pop, 50psi. no leak on valve.
    back to home depot, for some rubber tape, extra thick vinyl, low temp high grade.
    next, to use 0.9mm rubber tape, to create a bead-lock .
    oh, no sealant on the DHR II, usually use Fenwicks blue soup. for now I'll test without the goop. michelins wild'race, also hold air without it. but the roots, cut of stumps, and thorns, rip it to shreds. also at low psi, especially in the rear, it's just to wobbly .
    since the MK II 2.4 did not hold. also leaks on sidewalls, without stans.
    thinking, I'll go with the 1kg, wtb TCS AM vigilante to test further. they are UST tires, with extra heavy sidewalls. should fit the bill, in the rear. still want to get some TK II, 2.4 in BC protection to try.
    back to bead-lock, definitely want it, especially in the front, thought the rear will see a lot more torque and side pressure.
    give me a tickle, will order more rubber to test, cheers, Rob

  133. #133
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    Any report about 2.4" tires on Dually rims?

    I'd take a pair of Dually rims to go with a 2.4 Ardent rear and a Knard (or better a Dirty Wizard if it'll be available) front. All on a Canfield Yelli Screamy with Fox34.

    What do you think about it?
    I'm riding Ardents on P35 F&R, at now.

  134. #134
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    My black Duallys built up super easy. True as hell, no fuss. Look great. I used Stan's wide tape with a 120tpi Knard on the front and a 27tpi Knard on the back. The front set up with a floor pump, but bubbled after rides for a few days near the bead. Good to go now.

    The rear wire bead was a pain in the butt. I couldn't get it to seal and had to take it to a friends house with a compressor and use a ratchet strap. Good to go, no leaking at all.

    Have had two real rides and several commutes with no issues.

    I was using some tubes I had laying around, admittedly heavy, but saved 1.2 pounds going to tubeless. Totally worth it. I would def. but the Duallys again. No complaints.
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  135. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by savo View Post
    Any report about 2.4" tires on Dually rims?

    I'd take a pair of Dually rims to go with a 2.4 Ardent rear and a Knard (or better a Dirty Wizard if it'll be available) front. All on a Canfield Yelli Screamy with Fox34.

    What do you think about it?
    I'm riding Ardents on P35 F&R, at now.
    Sorry for the delayed response. We've found 2.4's are perfect on a Dually... we've run as narrow as a ~2.3 with great success, as the Dually itself is around 1.8" wide. I say go for it, but I'm a bit biased.
    bike dude, velocity employee (this is my personal account)

  136. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyingsqrl View Post
    I'd post this as a review, but the Dually is not listed. I owned two Dually 26 rims briefly. They were returned to my LBS after I took the plastic wrap off and found several cracks in the outer wall. The photos show only a small area on each rim, there were more cracks around the circumference. Very disappointed. I hope this is a problem that Velocity can resolve, until then I would recommend checking your Duallys for cracks. I will probably wait until Stans 50 mm rim is available
    My Dually & Blunt 35 both arrived yesterday and I'm bummed to say that mine have the same list of issues that Rob & Flying Squirrel report. I'll take a better look at them tonight and see if I can make them work. Not too excited about having to send them back but that might be what I have to do...
    I've not seen either of you post since sharing the pics of the cracks in new rims so i'm curious how it was handled and resolved if so.

  137. #137
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    I got a second opinion and we decided that the scoring that I found in the inner wall wasn't actually a crack. Maybe when drilling the rims, the bit dragged when they went from one hole to the next. I decided to live with the rest of the cosmetic imperfections. Hopefully they are only cosmetic. The wheels have been built but I haven't gotten to ride them yet and I haven't even mounted tires. I'm still waiting on the frame that they will go on (a Singular Gryphon). They do look awesome!

  138. #138
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    ^^ Much thanks for the reply.

    Seely whats your thoughts pertaining to flyingsqrl and his issue? Has it been looked into and what was determined?
    Lastly if one were inclined to have the rims anodized would it be best to start with the polished versions?

  139. #139
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    I took the Duallys back to my LBS and got my money back. I'm glad to hear that many others didn't have the same problem with their Duallys.

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    update: useing dually with tubes, till I get an compressor, and build-up a beadlock.
    got the studded nicotine tires, great tires, but so loose on the rims, guess , those where not meant to be used tubeless.
    and 69tr6, , yes tubeless is worth it. not just weight, rolling resistance, but the snake-bite flats due lower pressure. buddy has a Krampus , and he got tired of all the flats.

  141. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanTemplar View Post
    My Dually & Blunt 35 both arrived yesterday and I'm bummed to say that mine have the same list of issues that Rob & Flying Squirrel report. I'll talk a better look at them tonight and see if I can make them work. Not too excited about having to send them back but that might be what I have to do...
    Sorry to hear about the cosmetic issues, but glad to hear you're giving them a shot. Hopefully we've got the production line dialed in now to the point where that's going to be behind us. Post back once you get a few rides on them, we're always eager to hear feedback on a new product. So far, it seems pretty favorable so I hope you'll have the same experience.
    bike dude, velocity employee (this is my personal account)

  142. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by rschultz101 View Post
    update: useing dually with tubes, till I get an compressor, and build-up a beadlock.
    got the studded nicotine tires, great tires, but so loose on the rims, guess , those where not meant to be used tubeless.
    and 69tr6, , yes tubeless is worth it. not just weight, rolling resistance, but the snake-bite flats due lower pressure. buddy has a Krampus , and he got tired of all the flats.
    From my own casual observations with non-tubeless tires it seems that the tire fit varies more with these higher volume tires -- seemingly more so than with "normal" volume tires. With tubeless tires, the success rate seems to be pretty consistent, however. Keep us posted on what you find.
    bike dude, velocity employee (this is my personal account)

  143. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post

    Seely whats your thoughts pertaining to flyingsqrl and his issue? Has it been looked into and what was determined?
    Lastly if one were inclined to have the rims anodized would it be best to start with the polished versions?
    Seely you missed one!

  144. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    ^^ Much thanks for the reply.

    Seely whats your thoughts pertaining to flyingsqrl and his issue? Has it been looked into and what was determined?
    Lastly if one were inclined to have the rims anodized would it be best to start with the polished versions?
    We got the rims back (not sure whose set it was exactly) but it does appear to be a flaw somewhere along the line in the manufacturing process. We discovered a gouge in a spoke hole on the *inner* rim which is less than desirable, but shouldn't pose a strength issue as the nipple primarily stresses the outer rim wall. My guess is it was during the drilling process, but it's hard to say with 100% certainty since we really haven't seen the issue since. There was also a scratch along the inner web that looked like a possible manufacturing flaw as well, again, not ideal but not something we'd see as a structural issue. In fact, I believe an employee snagged the gouged rim and built it up for himself. We alerted the factory to the issue, and have no heard of any similar defects since so we expect it was limited to a few earlier production rims.

    For the anodizing, you can actually use either the Mill or Polished rim. I'm told the Polished rim will change the sheen of the anodizing process a bit and looks pretty sharp, but our standard practice is to send out the mill finished rims for anodizing.
    bike dude, velocity employee (this is my personal account)

  145. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by seely View Post
    We got the rims back (not sure whose set it was exactly) but it does appear to be a flaw somewhere along the line in the manufacturing process. We discovered a gouge in a spoke hole on the *inner* rim which is less than desirable, but shouldn't pose a strength issue as the nipple primarily stresses the outer rim wall. My guess is it was during the drilling process, but it's hard to say with 100% certainty since we really haven't seen the issue since. There was also a scratch along the inner web that looked like a possible manufacturing flaw as well, again, not ideal but not something we'd see as a structural issue. In fact, I believe an employee snagged the gouged rim and built it up for himself. We alerted the factory to the issue, and have no heard of any similar defects since so we expect it was limited to a few earlier production rims.

    For the anodizing, you can actually use either the Mill or Polished rim. I'm told the Polished rim will change the sheen of the anodizing process a bit and looks pretty sharp, but our standard practice is to send out the mill finished rims for anodizing.
    Thank you kindly sir for the detailed reply.

  146. #146
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    Has anybody else bought or tested these rims? Any news to speak of?

  147. #147
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    Dually's on my 616 tubeless with 45NRTH 26x4.0 Dillingers. No problems unless I go under 5psi with the setup. Tires have stayed on rim fine, just burping air at lower tire pressure.


    https://mobile.twitter.com/ScoleTrai...80410592108544New Velocity "mid fat" rim, the Dually-image.jpg

  148. #148
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    Been riding a set of Duallys since early December and no problems so far. Using a 26x2.8 tire and not tubeless yet. Built up on Deore xt hubs under a 1x9 steel hardtail.

  149. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikenIke View Post
    Been riding a set of Duallys since early December and no problems so far. Using a 26x2.8 tire and not tubeless yet. Built up on Deore xt hubs under a 1x9 steel hardtail.
    whats the 2.8 tire you speak of?

  150. #150
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    It's a Bontrager Big Earl. I very hard to find anymore, last I got was from a bike shop in Utah.

  151. #151
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    anyone have a picture of duallys on a karate monkey with knards front and rear? if its possible?

  152. #152
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    This thread is useless without pics.

  153. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikenIke View Post
    Have they made 29" Dually's already?
    Yeah! They're available and in stock at QBP right now, as well.

  154. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikenIke View Post
    Have they made 29" Dually's already?
    yes
    Safe riding,

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  155. #155
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    what is the widest tire you can put on the duallys?! pictures? this isn't a fun thread without pictures!

  156. #156
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    I have a set of Dually wheels on the way from Prowheelbuilder.com, they will be going on my Ogre frame. I don't think Knards will fit the rear, I am going to run Ardent 2.4's to start. Frame is being repainted, will post pics when done.

  157. #157
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    New Velocity "mid fat" rim, the Dually

    Anyone running Dually/Knard on a Misfit DiSSent frame?

  158. #158
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    26 & 29 Duallys

    I have a set of each here. one on the Singular has on One Smorgasbord rear/Chunky Monkey front. Both tubeless. The front barely clears the Reba Too close really. I have to look for a different sus fork. The Duallys on the Mukluk are tubeless with Fatback Sterling tires. No problems with that set up at all.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New Velocity "mid fat" rim, the Dually-p1070027.jpg  

    New Velocity "mid fat" rim, the Dually-dually-jan-14-test-024.jpg  

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  159. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatlip11 View Post
    Not disagreeing with anyone here, more of a question... is anyone planning on running pressures that low, 10-12psi? I don't think of these as much as fat tire rims as 29+ (maybe cause I plan on using these on my Krampus). On my SS with Flows and 2.3" tires, I run around 28psi. I am 6'5" at 220 lbs, and was thinking I could drop to low to mid 20s psi.
    Just to throw down-
    I've been running the northpaw 29+ Under 10 both front and rear. with tubes. Got 30-40 hours on her and no flats. Hit the trail HARD. Carver Gnarvester, singlespeed Carver tapered carbon fork. 190 lbs.
    Perfect number of bikes (n) + 1

  160. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth! View Post
    Just to throw down-
    I've been running the northpaw 29+ Under 10 both front and rear. with tubes. Got 30-40 hours on her and no flats. Hit the trail HARD. Carver Gnarvester, singlespeed Carver tapered carbon fork. 190 lbs.
    Under 10 psi on a 3" tire? Wow. I'm lighter than you and can't get anywhere close to that without taking rocks into the rim.

    Are you riding snow or dirt?
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    Im hitting the rocks,roots, dirt.
    I actually didn't care for the tire size until I bought a nice pressure gauge anddropped the psi- I think I might have been running 12 for awhile. That was the sweet spot. 12 rear and 10 front now I'm remembering.
    I normally run 25 on my race bike, 10 on the fatbike and 10/12 on my 29+
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  162. #162
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    I built an ECR with Duallys and 120tpi Knards and took it noodling in some mild chunk yesterday. I was thinking that I could have run less pressure until I got a couple burps at 12psi.

    I wish Bontrager would make their tubeless rim strips for everyone else's rims.

  163. #163
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    Wow! Y'all must be skinny! I am still running closer to 17-18, course I am a big boy at 215-220lbs depending on the beers consumed over the weekend. I tried it around 15 and started worrying about the rims on heavy hits.

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    ECR's now available ? what's the difference to Krampus ?
    how are those 120tpi Knards ? thinking they might be to squirreley for me 200lbs,
    the 27tpi knards have a wire, they might burp less.

  165. #165
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    I'm running the Dirt Wizards on mine and keep them pretty plump for less rolling resistance. I don't measure the psi but even at high psi the wizards are still pretty soft and grippy.

  166. #166
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    those 29+ dirt wizard tires ? have not seen those ! pics please.

  167. #167
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    Nope, sorry, 26". The Duallys are taking a beating though since I'm a rather clumsy rider. "Point and Shoot" is my motto.

  168. #168
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    I've been riding a set of 700c Duallys on my prototype Singular Rooster 29+, and they're fantastic rims. Tubeless setup was very easy, even with non-tubeless Knards.

    I've had good friends run the 26-inch version on their racing fat bike, and they worked well in that application. They aren't the ticket for deep, soft snow (where 80-100mm rims rule), but for most all other conditions, the weight savings is awesome (esp. given the reasonable price).New Velocity "mid fat" rim, the Dually-image.jpgNew Velocity "mid fat" rim, the Dually-image.jpg
    I like bikes

  169. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by rschultz101 View Post
    ECR's now available ? what's the difference to Krampus ?
    how are those 120tpi Knards ? thinking they might be to squirreley for me 200lbs,
    the 27tpi knards have a wire, they might burp less.
    I just ordered the ECR frame set and only had to wait a week to get a large. I haven't tried the Knards on any other rims and they were tough to get inflated on the duallys but they roll well enough and grip like crazy for climbing!

  170. #170
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    Would anyone know specific tire widths of an Ardent 2.4 on a Dually? I saw info here regarding the Dually not really changing the Ardent's profile but just wanted to make sure. I'm planning to use this combo for my rear, paired with a rabbit hole - knard combo on the front. Based on my own measurements I can fit a 62mm tire in my frame, so would the Dually - Ardent 2.4 combo fit? Thanks.

  171. #171
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    Probably not - I measured my ardent 2.4 on a 35mm rim at 63mm, I think, from memory!

  172. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Futon River Crossing View Post
    Probably not - I measured my ardent 2.4 on a 35mm rim at 63mm, I think, from memory!
    Ouch, just what I feared! I was kinda hoping of sneaking in a Blunt 35, but screw that thought too! Thanks man!

  173. #173
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    My thoughts after more than 5000km.

    I published a long term review on my blog: Longterm review: 6000km on Velocity Dually 29? Rims | Off Route

    Most of it is my thoughts on running them tubeless, and how a got them to successfully/safely go tubeless.

    Take home message: the "tubeless-ready" claims by Velocity are bogus, but with a bit of creativity, they can be made ghetto-tubeless relatively easily. But so can Rabbit Holes.


  174. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylerd View Post
    I published a long term review on my blog: Longterm review: 6000km on Velocity Dually 29? Rims | Off Route

    Take home message: the "tubeless-ready" claims by Velocity are bogus, but with a bit of creativity, they can be made ghetto-tubeless relatively easily. But so can Rabbit Holes.
    The claims are not at all bogus. Use a tire that has a bead made for tubeless and you will not have problems. I set up some Specialized 2bliss ready tires with no problems a few weeks back and have had no issues. I wish Surly would come out with tubeless versions of their tires.

  175. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by giantone View Post
    The claims are not at all bogus. Use a tire that has a bead made for tubeless and you will not have problems. I set up some Specialized 2bliss ready tires with no problems a few weeks back and have had no issues. I wish Surly would come out with tubeless versions of their tires.
    Thanks for pointing this out. Other companies seem to choose to make their rims to cater to tubeless conversions, while we make ours to be compatible with actual tubeless tires. Surly tires seem to have the widest range of success and failure running tubeless. I've had reports of everything from one layer of Velotape or Stans, to 5 to 6 layers of Gorilla tape to screw it I'll just run tubes.

    Personally, I'm running the 26" Dirt Wizard and wound up using a layer of Velotape and then a layer of a thick rubbery tape. Even then I only got the tire to seat after wrapping it tightly with some of our packing wrap. It's holding great, but Surly tires have loose tolerances and certainly were not designed for tubeless applications.
    bike dude, velocity employee (this is my personal account)

  176. #176
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    I have the Dually front with a Knard and Blunt 35 with a X-King neither or which are tubeless specific and I haven't had any problems in the 5 months or so that I've had this setup. Just using the Velocity blue tape with the valves. It was quite tough to get the Knard set up tubeless but the trick that I found is to air it up with the wheel laying on its side on a garbage can so that the Stans pools on one side then flip it over continuing to give it air. It took a good 10 to 15 minutes of keeping air on it with a lot of sealant lost before it would seal. Haven't had any issues though since.

  177. #177
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    What kind of pressures are you guys running with your Knards and Dually's tubeless?

    I ran with tubes for about a week just to get them seating well and to help set the single strip of stans tape over the spoke holes, and they worked fine at about 10 pounds PSI with tubes in rocky terrain.

    I then just carefully took the bead off one side, pulled the tube and put 3 scoops of orange seal in. Did this over at my local LBS and used there air compressor and it sealed right up with a little leaking around the beads that went away soon.

    Problem is I can't even run the pressures as low as I was with tubes as I get small burps with sealant coming out.

    skylerd from your description it sounds like I need to build up the shelf a bit with some gorilla tape, how many wraps around the rim do you do? Do you leave a little room between the side wall and the tape or are you butting the tape right up to the sidewall?

    Thanks

    Really looking forward to the Maxxis Chronicle coming out as it looks to be a tubeless tire with sidewall protection.
    Last edited by TahoeBC; 06-06-2014 at 12:52 PM.

  178. #178
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    I've run mine tubeless with Knard, Nobby Nic, and Racing Ralph. The Schwalbe tires got on the bead seat better but still burp at higher pressures than I want to run (16psi). The Knards suck to get seated and are really too loose on the bead seat, IMHO.

    I anxiously await fat rims from Notubes and would have built this bike on Flows in the meantime if I had known.

  179. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by seely View Post
    Thanks for pointing this out. Other companies seem to choose to make their rims to cater to tubeless conversions, while we make ours to be compatible with actual tubeless tires. Surly tires seem to have the widest range of success and failure running tubeless. I've had reports of everything from one layer of Velotape or Stans, to 5 to 6 layers of Gorilla tape to screw it I'll just run tubes.

    Personally, I'm running the 26" Dirt Wizard and wound up using a layer of Velotape and then a layer of a thick rubbery tape. Even then I only got the tire to seat after wrapping it tightly with some of our packing wrap. It's holding great, but Surly tires have loose tolerances and certainly were not designed for tubeless applications.
    Yes, I say this in my review. I know that Surly tires are not tubeless ready. I'm referring specifically that I had to try to build a bead shelf out of tape. You'll notice that I'm the only person who has done that, and I seem to be one of very few people responding that has never had a tire burp. If you read my review, you'll notice that it's really positive...if that's what you're worried about.

    And it should be, I've thrashed around on them for nearly 6000km.

  180. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylerd View Post
    Yes, I say this in my review. I know that Surly tires are not tubeless ready. I'm referring specifically that I had to try to build a bead shelf out of tape. You'll notice that I'm the only person who has done that, and I seem to be one of very few people responding that has never had a tire burp. If you read my review, you'll notice that it's really positive...if that's what you're worried about.

    And it should be, I've thrashed around on them for nearly 6000km.
    I did read your review, quite carefully. What I am confused on is how a successful tubeless setup with a non-tubeless tire somehow makes our claim of tubeless ready "bogus."
    bike dude, velocity employee (this is my personal account)

  181. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeBC View Post
    What kind of pressures are you guys running with your Knards and Dually's tubeless?

    I ran with tubes for about a week just to get them seating well and to help set the single strip of stans tape over the spoke holes, and they worked fine at about 10 pounds PSI with tubes in rocky terrain.

    I then just carefully took the bead off one side, pulled the tube and put 3 scoops of orange seal in. Did this over at my local LBS and used there air compressor and it sealed right up with a little leaking around the beads that went away soon.

    Problem is I can't even run the pressures as low as I was with tubes as I get small burps with sealant coming out.

    giantone from your description it sounds like I need to build up the shelf a bit with some gorilla tape, how many wraps around the rim do you do? Do you leave a little room between the side wall and the tape or are you butting the tape right up to the sidewall?

    Thanks

    Really looking forward to the Maxxis Chronicle coming out as it looks to be a tubeless tire with sidewall protection.
    We recommend going edge to edge with the tape, even for UST tire applications. If you're running non-tubeless tires, Gorilla Tape may work better than our thin stuff.
    bike dude, velocity employee (this is my personal account)

  182. #182
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    Right. It's just the lack of bead shelve ridges that I'm referring to. I guess that makes them "almost tubeless-ready", requiring just a bit of modification. Seems that with the tape shelf, the risk of burping is way lower. The diameter is clearly correct for airing up tubeless-ready tires without full-width tape, the profile just might not be correct for keeping them there.

    If the Duallies had a bead shelf ridge, they'd be a 5-star product. It's what people want. It would probably be a lot easier to make rims with bead shelf ridges than to convince people that they don't need them.

  183. #183
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    I have a set of Duallies I have been running on my FS bike. For tires I am some old 2.4 kendas that I had hanging around, the only reason I am using them is I wanted something more aggressive than knards. Still waiting for a 3 inch aggressive tire.
    I found the Duallies to work very well tubeless with thin tape, they have a good shelf that the tire sealed on before it popped onto the bead. I think surly tires suck I have several pairs of surly fat tires, the quality has no consistence. One tire will fit tight the other will almost fall off the rim. I think like stated before it a tire problem not a rim problem.

  184. #184
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    I just had Angry Catfish, in Minneapolis, build a 29+ wheel set for my Mukluk using the Duallies. They are built around I-9 hubs, and use the 29x3 Knards, set up with tubes for now. The Duallies were cheaper than Rabbit Holes, but the added expense of the hubs (vs. Salsa hubs) more than offset the savings....

    I plan on using the bike to explore forest roads and trails and figured these would be better at covering distance than the stock Mukluk wheel set.







    Last edited by 2whl-hoop; 06-07-2014 at 08:04 PM.

  185. #185
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    So what's the most reliable tubeless setup for the Dually/Knard combo for aggressive riding? I built my Dually wheelset last week and just picked up some Gorilla tape today. Some say to use no tape, just sealant, some say 1 layer, some say 2 layers. Experience?

  186. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasquatch rides a SS View Post
    So what's the most reliable tubeless setup for the Dually/Knard combo for aggressive riding? I built my Dually wheelset last week and just picked up some Gorilla tape today. Some say to use no tape, just sealant, some say 1 layer, some say 2 layers. Experience?
    You will need tape, no questions asked they simply will not work without it. I would suggest this stuff 3M Scotch Transparent Duct Tape, 1.88-Inch by 20-Yard (2120-A) - - Amazon.com It is slightly wider than you need so it will need to be trimmed down. Tape the entire flat area including bead shelf and you should not have any troubles. Gorilla tape will work but it is heavier and tends to soak up a bit more sealant. My experience was with a trouble free gorilla tape setup that only covered the spoke holes. It was fine but the gorilla tape ended up soaking up more sealant than I would have liked.

  187. #187
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    For my 26er Dually/Husker (front), Dually/Knard (rear) I needed one layer of Gorilla tape to make the rim/tire interface tight enough to not burp. With just stans tape I peeled the tire off.

  188. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasquatch rides a SS View Post
    So what's the most reliable tubeless setup for the Dually/Knard combo for aggressive riding? I built my Dually wheelset last week and just picked up some Gorilla tape today. Some say to use no tape, just sealant, some say 1 layer, some say 2 layers. Experience?
    I've seen the most variance in tubeless setup with Surly tires. I love my Dirt Wizards, but on the 26" Dually they were a very loose fit. Others have said theirs fit tight. Guitar Ted, in one of his reviews, mounted Knards easily with a single layer of Gorilla Tape. One of our wheel builders here wound up using 3 or 4 layers. So, all that to say YMMV. With any non-tubeless tire it seems to require some experimentation.
    bike dude, velocity employee (this is my personal account)

  189. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by seely View Post
    I've seen the most variance in tubeless setup with Surly tires. I love my Dirt Wizards, but on the 26" Dually they were a very loose fit. Others have said theirs fit tight. Guitar Ted, in one of his reviews, mounted Knards easily with a single layer of Gorilla Tape. One of our wheel builders here wound up using 3 or 4 layers. So, all that to say YMMV. With any non-tubeless tire it seems to require some experimentation.
    That's what I was thinking. My Knards ( ) are a pretty loose fit. I am sort of expecting at least 2 layers, but wanted to see what others had done. I'll post up when I have time to convert and then again after the first ride.

  190. #190
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    Safe riding,

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  191. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Whoah. Excellent work. Great tubeless reference.

  192. #192
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    I've got a few more long rides in rocky terrain under my belt, never got around to building up the bead shelf, still have a single thin layer of Stans tape covering the the spoke holes and still using the original 3 scoops of Orange seal. I seem to be able to run lower pressures now than originally for what ever reason, maybe enough orange seal has bedded in around the bead. Last Sunday I ran 10 1/2 PSI in both the tires with no issues. These are 120 tpi knards BTW.

    Here I am starting to descend 4500 feet last Sunday

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    Been running mine with the 27tpi versions since last October with zero issues. They were a ***** to get sealed but once I did they are great. I figured out it was best just to put in about 20 lbs of air and let them rest on each side for a few hours. I run about 12-14 lbs no problem.

  194. #194
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    Any tubeless Dually experience with 29+ tires other than the Knard?

  195. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatlip11 View Post
    Been running mine with the 27tpi versions since last October with zero issues. They were a ***** to get sealed but once I did they are great. I figured out it was best just to put in about 20 lbs of air and let them rest on each side for a few hours. I run about 12-14 lbs no problem.
    Well, I spoke too soon. I changed out to 2 new Knards yesterday and have been trying for two days to get one of them to seal. Stan's is blowing out both sides and neither side will seal. It has been resting on each side for hours between flips and still will not seal. Grrr.

  196. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatlip11 View Post
    Well, I spoke too soon. I changed out to 2 new Knards yesterday and have been trying for two days to get one of them to seal. Stan's is blowing out both sides and neither side will seal. It has been resting on each side for hours between flips and still will not seal. Grrr.
    My friends had the same problem with Duallys. If you can't get it to seal try a split tube.
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    Thanks vikb,
    Not sure I understand, isn't the split tube method for the rims? The tape is holding up fine, it is blowing out between the tire and the rim.
    Thanks

  198. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatlip11 View Post
    Thanks vikb,
    Not sure I understand, isn't the split tube method for the rims? The tape is holding up fine, it is blowing out between the tire and the rim.
    Thanks
    The split tube lets the tire seal against the split tube which is between the tire bead and the rim.

    See this post: Fatbike Tubeless | gypsy by trade

    You don't need any foam with your Duallys. I'd put some tape over the spoke holes [doesn't need to be air tight this is just for abrasion protection of tube.] then add split tube and tire. Finally trim excess tube that's hanging over edge of rim.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  199. #199
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    OK Thanks for the tip. Weird, I haven't had a problem for the past year. I guess the Knard is wonky?
    Thanks

  200. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatlip11 View Post
    OK Thanks for the tip. Weird, I haven't had a problem for the past year. I guess the Knard is wonky?
    Thanks
    The Dually isn't a good tubeless rim and the Knard isn't a tubeless tire. Combine the two and you have a total crap shoot for getting a seal. The split tube bridges the gap between the two and should solve your problems.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

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