New Low at Canadian Tire- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
    Doesntplaywellwithmorons!
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    New Low at Canadian Tire

    This is a repost from the mini-review I put up in a couple local Ottawa area FB groups tonight.

    So there's now another entry-level fat option for people just entering the sport, CCM Brut... just examined one at the Cdn Tire in Bells Corners. 18 inch frame with 24 inch effective TT length, 450mm chainstay length, didn't have my angle finder on me to check the head/seat angles. Compared to the $100 cheaper Northrock at Costco.... cassette hub makes re-gearing easier, and the square taper cranks are 104-4 bolt in 170mm with a stock 32T ring so don't have to immediately change it out to ride it as an adult (unlike the northrock with its stock 152mm cranks). Its a 1x8 drivetrain with a shimano shifter/derailleur but I didn't check the stock cassette size.

    Rims are 80mm wide and drilled but they need some going over with a file/sandpaper as there are noticeable burrs in the hole edges. Dropouts are 135/170, and its IS disc mounts front and back with a 44mm cup headtube for zero-stack headset and straight 1 1/8 fork steerer. Stock tires are 26 x 4.0 CY's, and there seems to be clearance to go to about a 4.6 but much more and you'll need a new fork probably. Aluminum frame with replacable hanger, steel fork, lower spec mech discs, much shorter alloy stem but also narrower handlebar.

    While its nice to have a cassette rear hub, the bearing quality seems lesser than the hubs on the Northrock. Frame is red polish paint with white decals (so with a hair dryer you could remove the decals and just have a stealthy red fat bike until you upgrade to better). Frame down tube and both fork legs have standard bottle cage mounts. There is a kickstand present on the frame and the weight from a simple lift test felt like 36-38 pounds range. So essentially a bit better as a starter fat as far as components go, but its got a lower quality construction frame than the Northrock which is also a lighter bike. Its certainly way better than the Schwinn fat bike, which is still $380 at CdnTire with its weird dropout dimensions and unusual BB shell width and low quality bearings.

    Again...if you just want something to decide whether you like fats or not, and don't want to drop 1k on a segment of riding you might hate.. its a good choice, as would it be for that spare you have some nice bits from upgrading your own fat already, and just want a shell to put them on without scratch building another fat from the frame up. This might also involve needing to go spend money for items at Tall Tree, the moose, etc... its spring time sales afterall. If you don't do your own wrenching already you'll at least want to take it to get a tune up done though, as the adjustments didn't exactly feel that well done on the showroom floor (unlike the stuff costco sells that as long as they got the fork facing the right way, tends to come out of the box fairly well adjusted already).

    CCM Brut 4.0 Mountain Bike | Canadian Tire
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  2. #2
    Rocking on a Rocky
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    Nice you can ride it all winter and return it in the spring.
    :thumbsup:It doesn't matter what I ride as long as I ride it Rubber Side Down●~●.

  3. #3
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    If a rental shop is available, I think that would be a better option than shelling out the money on a low budget bike that might just turn a person off of fat bikes.

  4. #4
    Doesntplaywellwithmorons!
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    I don't know where you are...but around here the shops which do fat rentals use higher end fat bikes, because they retain more value when they go to sell them in the spring and they're more likely to encourage a buyer to buy that same model. This means there are no bargain deals for an entry level rental fat to be had generally.
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  5. #5
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    If it get more people to ride bike iam happy + it gives jobs to Bike shop.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by cadoretteboat View Post
    If it get more people to ride bike iam happy + it gives jobs to Bike shop.
    You'd think more shop owners would remember than not everyone was born with a silver spoon in their orifices, and that for a lot of people, especially ones with families... even $500 is a lot to spend on a bicycle. Or that, for just about every bicycle shop in world...what keeps the bills paid and the lights on and employees fed...is SERVICE WORK...not bicycle sales. And $500 bike owners are going to be a lot more service work most likely than $2000 bike owners.
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

  7. #7
    Doesntplaywellwithmorons!
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    To update this... after selling a custom built RSD I picked one of these CCM's up after finding it actually on sale. Getting it home and onto a scale...DAMN...heavy...the RSD Mayor V3 was 32.1 pounds complete... this CCM is 42.1 complete. After stripping it I found out why... the tires...which looked at first glance to be CY Big Daddy's... aren't... they're an even cheaper knock-off brand called Seyoun NJK tire. Each tire weighed 5.1 pounds (that's more than a pound heavier than an actual 30TPI wire-bead CY Big Daddy 26 x 4.0 tire is). Alloy Frame itself is 4.2 pounds and the steel fork 3.7 pounds. Only heavy parts otherwise that stood out was a handlebar at 610g for about a 630mm width, and a 222 gram stem that's super short. Tubes were about 620g each but that's not unusual for a fat at this price point. It could definitely be built into the 36-37 pound range without spending much on it. Stock gearing is a 32T ring and 11-32 shimano 8 speed cassette (yes its a cassette hub). Really all it needs is the gearing widened, new rubber, and a different bar/stem.
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

  8. #8
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    Iíve thought for a long time that bike shop quality fat bikes are way over priced considering all they are is a rigid, 1980ís mountain bike with bigger tires and wheels.

  9. #9
    Is dang happy!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowfat View Post
    Iíve thought for a long time that bike shop quality fat bikes are way over priced considering all they are is a rigid, 1980ís mountain bike with bigger tires and wheels.
    Giant had that Rocker for around $500 a few years back. The cheap Wallgoose tanks with the garbage tires that I see all over the place are not best way to get introduced to fat bikes. Good tires are key to having an joyable experience, (you hear this BikesDirect)!

    The big box and extra space on the shipping container is probably a significant cost on the cheap fatties. Economies of scale is another reason why the fat tax is still a thing. Consumers still think they are slow and strange just as I did when I saw my first one many years back. Glad DeeEight is bringing up the low budget options and covering their strengths and weekness.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight View Post
    You'd think more shop owners would remember than not everyone was born with a silver spoon in their orifices, and that for a lot of people, especially ones with families... even $500 is a lot to spend on a bicycle. Or that, for just about every bicycle shop in world...what keeps the bills paid and the lights on and employees fed...is SERVICE WORK...not bicycle sales. And $500 bike owners are going to be a lot more service work most likely than $2000 bike owners.
    Typical silver spoon bullshit... or people worked their asses off to get an education or hustled to build a business and worked hard for their money.

    People that do well arnt lucky nor had everything given to them.





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    Fatbike, XC bike, Gravel Bike....

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Doom View Post
    Giant had that Rocker for around $500 a few years back. The cheap Wallgoose tanks with the garbage tires that I see all over the place are not best way to get introduced to fat bikes. Good tires are key to having an joyable experience, (you hear this BikesDirect)!
    The Momentum Rocker 3 and the Northrock XC00 (sold by costco) is essentially the same bike, just different components. Giant made bikes for stores/chains designed not to piss of giant dealers. There are seperate threads for both the momentums and the costco fats in here explaining about those respective brands and the bikes.

    Comparing the CCM to the Northrock, the top five areas where the CCM comes out ahead are as follows...

    #1 The frame is standard 170mm back end (the Northrock uses an assymetrical rear where the 170mm wheel has to be dished specifically to the frame) making for easier rear wheel swaps.

    #2 The fork is standard 135mm open dropout spacing (vs unusual 121mm spacing), so front wheel swaps or fork upgrades are simpler as well as the fork itself is half a pound lighter and has bottle cage mounts on the fork blades. It also has more clearance for a wider tire (could probably fit a 4.5 Kenda Juggernaut without issue) than the Northrock's fork.

    #3 the head tube by being standard 44mm cup size top and bottom is makes it easier to find the correct lower cup assembly to upgrade to a tapered steerer fork than the 50.6mm lower cup size on the northrock.

    #4 the rims are wider at 80mm (vs 56mm) so they offer better support to the tire casing and a bigger inflation volume out of a given size tire.

    #5 the rear hub is an cassette type, so its easier to upgrade to 9, 10 or 11 speed gearing and the crankset it comes with is a proper 170mm length square taper with 104mm single replaceable 4-bolt 32T chainring combined with an actual shimano 11-32 8 speed cassette. The Northrock has these ridiculous 152mm length quare taper cranks with a stamped/pressed on steel 36T ring and mated to a 7 speed shimano 14-28 freewheel.

    and five areas the northrock comes out ahead are...

    #1 Absolute price... $399 CAD in a costco store (or $449 CAD including delivery from website) vs $499 CAD as the regular price at a Canadian Tire store.

    #2 Lighter wheelset with nicer hub bearings but at the cost of a freewheel type rear hub which limits your options for going to 9 or 10 speed rear ends (SunRace does make E-bike series freewheels including a 10 speed 11-36 one).

    #3 Lighter name brand tires (Kenda Gigas at around 1.35kg each vs the 2.35kg each for the crappy Seyoun NJK's on the CCM) and even though its not the best depth of tread block for snow...I'd rather have light fat with shallow tread over heavy fat tires with deep tread.



    #4 Frame is marginally (like 1/5th of a pound) lighter, has more cable routing bosses so you can fit an external dropper or add a front shifter/derailleur more easily and the seat tube being 30.9mm sized offers more options if you go the dropper post route with it than the 27.2 of the CCM.

    #5 Overall the bike is about 6 pounds lighter as you walk out of the store with it compared to the CCM and this is partially the tires & tubes (stock tubes were about 160g lighter each on the Northrock compared to the 610g tubes in the CCM) but also partially from having a lighter saddle, stem and handlebar (the CCM has a steel bar that weighs 610 grams and the Northrock got an aluminum bar that was about 335 grams). Both bikes come stock with kickstands and the Northrock got a lighter design one of those also. The frames both max out around 4 inches of actual inflated tire width to have sufficient clearance for mud/snow between the tire and inside of the stays.

    BOTH bikes suffer in terms of the gearing as you leave the store, though the CCM less so, and both have too cramped of cockpits with narrow bars and short stems relative to how long the top tubes are respectively.

    Now to put all that in perspective... a 2016 KHS Four Seasons 1000 (who's frame cracked in about 2 2/3 years of usage), stock out of the box was more than three times the retail price of the CCM and weighed 36.1 pounds. In terms of immediate money spending to fix the most serious flaws...it comes down to gearing as the priority on the Northrock versus tires on the CCM. So it depends WHAT you have access to for upgrade parts (whether you own already or can easily find online or at local stores) as to which bike you might take over the other.

    https://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/20...on-998622.html
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  12. #12
    Doesntplaywellwithmorons!
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    To update about the bike further... I ended up doing up three CCM Brut upgrades and resales this winter/early spring.

    To avoid having to type out long explanations on each build with photos, I'll take the short cut option and provide the links to the for-sale posts for them on pinkbike.

    https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2502856/

    That was the first one, upgraded was 35.25 pounds complete and it was setup 1x9 with an 11-40 cassette.

    https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2524299/

    That was the second one with many more upgrades including the drivetrain going to a 1x10 Deore setup, raceface cranks, narrow wide ring and 31.7 pounds.

    The third one never got listed on pinkbike because it was a commisioned build that was paid for before I began the work but it came out in between the first and second for weight and price, and was also a wide range 1x9 setup.

    In comparison when the stores that DID have rental fats in the area finally got around to putting them up for sale as winter was ending, the cheapest option was a now "used" 2019 Devinci Minus Altus which worked out to about 1150CAD with tax for a 1x9 drivetrain and around 36 pounds.
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  13. #13
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    @DeeEight Google search of ccm brut got me here and thanks for detailed info on ccm brute.

    I'm new to fat bike and doing an mid drive ebike build (have done one on regular bike)

    As a cheap donor bike I picked schwinn biggity but not really happy with it so thinking of ccm brut or something from bikesdirect.
    Motor I bought is 100mm bb. What's ccms? And do you recommend that over bikesdirect
    http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...ye-monster.htm

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight View Post
    To update about the bike further... I ended up doing up three CCM Brut upgrades and resales this winter/early spring.

    To avoid having to type out long explanations on each build with photos, I'll take the short cut option and provide the links to the for-sale posts for them on pinkbike.

    https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2502856/

    That was the first one, upgraded was 35.25 pounds complete and it was setup 1x9 with an 11-40 cassette.

    https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2524299/

    That was the second one with many more upgrades including the drivetrain going to a 1x10 Deore setup, raceface cranks, narrow wide ring and 31.7 pounds.

    The third one never got listed on pinkbike because it was a commisioned build that was paid for before I began the work but it came out in between the first and second for weight and price, and was also a wide range 1x9 setup.

    In comparison when the stores that DID have rental fats in the area finally got around to putting them up for sale as winter was ending, the cheapest option was a now "used" 2019 Devinci Minus Altus which worked out to about 1150CAD with tax for a 1x9 drivetrain and around 36 pounds.
    @DeeEight Google search of ccm brut got me here and thanks for detailed info on ccm brute.

    I'm new to fat bike and doing an mid drive ebike build (have done one on regular bike)

    As a cheap donor bike I picked schwinn biggity but not really happy with it so thinking of ccm brut or something from bikesdirect.
    Motor I bought is 100mm bb. What's ccms? And do you recommend that over bikesdirect
    http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...ye-monster.htm

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadkin View Post
    @DeeEight Google search of ccm brut got me here and thanks for detailed info on ccm brute.

    I'm new to fat bike and doing an mid drive ebike build (have done one on regular bike)

    As a cheap donor bike I picked schwinn biggity but not really happy with it so thinking of ccm brut or something from bikesdirect.
    Motor I bought is 100mm bb. What's ccms? And do you recommend that over bikesdirect
    http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...ye-monster.htm
    I get stuck helping new and returning riders at scale via being a director and trail steward at a facility with hundreds of new or in lessons riders. Over and over the cheapest bikes including the bikes direct stuff leave the riders with annoying or troublesome but not exactly deal killer issues. Poor headsets, brakes that don't adjust well or with ease, pedals that are trashed in no time. Crappy seat hardware (post & seat). Among them some Mongoose are better but none of those beginning riders ever seem to have the problems if they get the entry level offerings from our area bike shops that for the most part sell Trek, Giant and Surly.

    In summer we see many starting with e-bikes from a popular local seller and they also have minor details that make them a junk show compared to minimally more expensive known brands.

    For the fat bikes I see people buy these cheap ones and then upgrade brakes and headsets. Then they have a bike with crappy geometry compared to the people getting an entry level Farley, Giant Yukon or Surly and they've spent more money and time.

    There are exceptions. Maybe you're a good mechanic? I'm just letting you know what I experience where in the past year we've had around 240 new riders in lessons and where many people in a 500,000 people metro area ride. I can't count how often I take my tools out to help people who are frustrated or listen to them talk about their upgrades when the person who bought an entry level Farley just rides the bike.
    ƃuoɹʍ llɐ ʇno əɯɐɔ ʇɐɥʇ

  16. #16
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    Thank you for your insights. That helps.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadkin View Post
    @DeeEight Google search of ccm brut got me here and thanks for detailed info on ccm brute.

    I'm new to fat bike and doing an mid drive ebike build (have done one on regular bike)

    As a cheap donor bike I picked schwinn biggity but not really happy with it so thinking of ccm brut or something from bikesdirect.
    Motor I bought is 100mm bb. What's ccms? And do you recommend that over bikesdirect
    http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...ye-monster.htm
    I did have a felt fat bike for couple seasons...but daughter in college took care of that. I've been missing winter riding so i picked up the ccm brute 500 bucks . Hardest part was convincing them to sell it to me in the box!! Its heavy out of the box but i have some parts for it..bars ,stem , tires .hyd brakes Maybe new cassette in new year. I am happy with it .gets me out riding in winter without hurting the wallet .

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