Moonlander/Clownshoe Landing Commence...- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Moonlander/Clownshoe Landing Commence...

    MoonMan Sam delivered us an awesome surprise today! Customer Z prepped his old PugZ for a winter cleaning/Rohloff when he found out that the Z'Moonlander was introduced. Here is a little pictorial of the landing...

    We were very happy to hear that MoonMan Sam was delivering it to us directly from Surly Intergalactic Headquarters. Another surprise was the previously posted Clownshoes. Just waiting for the rim offset measurements so we can get the rear wheel laced up!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Moonlander/Clownshoe Landing Commence...-1.jpg  

    Moonlander/Clownshoe Landing Commence...-3.jpg  

    Moonlander/Clownshoe Landing Commence...-11.jpg  

    Moonlander/Clownshoe Landing Commence...-8.jpg  

    Moonlander/Clownshoe Landing Commence...-9.jpg  


  2. #2
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    Only approved footwear for Moonlander Operations.

  3. #3
    All fat, all the time.
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    Haha awesome!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by anomad View Post


    Only approved footwear for Moonlander Operations.
    Disagree.....

    Moonlander/Clownshoe Landing Commence...-screen-shot-2011-12-03-1.04.25-pm.jpg

  5. #5
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    Best!
    I'm covered in beer.

  6. #6
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    Just saw this on a local site, thought you'd like it...

    Pink Moonlander take-off and landing at Homie:




    .

  7. #7
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    nice work.

  8. #8
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    Great pics!
    plan it...build it....ride it...love it....
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  9. #9
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    Great knowing there here!
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by saltyman View Post


    Great knowing there here!
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  11. #11
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    ha ha, i do believe now...........will be real when i get to see one in real life, then i will show the evidence to the world for myself
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  12. #12
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    One step closer...

    So finally got the rear hub offset info from Surly for the Clownshoe. They quoted me -8mm Non-Drive / +8mm driveside. Came up with 239/241mm 2x for a Rohloff build. Used 238mm for ND and 240mm for the drive. ND spoke length were spot on, Driveside could have been 241mm.

    I have to thank whomever threw out the idea to flip the 29er extension around. All it took was a large washer and an M6 bolt and nut combo. Washer was large enough to allow plenty of vertical movement for axle leveling.

    The rim was the most round and true fat wheel I have built other than the Marge. Still had that singlewall skip at the seam, but great round. Not to hard to get to even tension as well which was a surprise in contrast to my Fat Sheba's.

    Just waiting on some final additions. Front Hub, Crank, etc. Should be done by the end of the week! Front wheel just takes a 20mm offset on both sides. Should have known that one. Pics when it is all done!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Moonlander/Clownshoe Landing Commence...-190mm.jpg  

    Moonlander/Clownshoe Landing Commence...-complete.jpg  


  13. #13
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    Now that is sweet... That's what a Moonlander need is an IGH. The boys from surly didn't recommend a spoke tension limit for the clown shoes did they?

  14. #14
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    ---
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ia_ss157 View Post
    I have to thank whomever threw out the idea to flip the 29er extension around. All it took was a large washer and an M6 bolt and nut combo. Washer was large enough to allow plenty of vertical movement for axle leveling.
    I may not be THE one who suggested it, but I am one who did - and found the same thing I see in your pic: The drive interferes with the flipped extension - or would if that one was flipped


    How did you get the dish right? Did you do something to the driveside extension? Or just check dish offstand/keep flipping the wheel?

    I'm thinking of taking a mill to mine to get drive clearance, but that's a bit outside of what most folks can do.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  16. #16
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    I hope you will start thread on the details of your IGH build. I was leaning the Alfine 11 but that Rolhoff looks sweet.

    Details, part numbers, ect will be a huge help.

  17. #17
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    Originally Posted by wadester
    How did you get the dish right? Did you do something to the driveside extension? Or just check dish offstand/keep flipping the wheel?
    I always use an external dish gauge/tool. The mechanic that taught me how to build wheels never enlightened me to the fact that the truing stand was actually in dish. I always thought the TS-2 I worked with all those years ago was darn close. After one "round" of spoke adjustments for dish, I re-true, remove from the stand and check dish.

    For true on 80mm+ rims, I cut down a spoke (with head) and tape it to the truing arm. Round still works off of the existing truing arms. It is kind of nice because I can actually dish and keep true in check at the same time if I am having an uncooperative build.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fresno View Post
    I hope you will start thread on the details of your IGH build. I was leaning the Alfine 11 but that Rolhoff looks sweet.

    Details, part numbers, ect will be a huge help.
    ZzzZ is the master-mind behind this build. He was the first gent in my area to own a PugZ (may it rest in dirty peace as a semi-retired SS PugZ). I will definitely post the specs as the last bits arrive. I will also get some shots posted up and even see if the maniacal Z-Man himself with post his thoughts. Do expect some extra z's to be thrown around...

  19. #19
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    oh, now i see how to build moonlander wheels!!! so is that an aftermarket clamp on the left side of the park 29er adapter?
    your 29er may float over roots and rocks, but my superlight 26 just plain floats

  20. #20
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    I guess I didn't even have a clue on how much a rohloff hub was until I started really looking. I always figured they were like $500 not $1,500!!! The weird thing is that I see people using these a lot on forum pics. Are people really dropping a frame's worth of money on a single hub, or am I just cheap and should get with the program? A Nuvinci is probably around the top of what I would want to pay. Maybe I'll just end up keeping my Pugs running a regular rd forever...
    "You don't cross my ***** line, I don't cross your ***** line".
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  21. #21
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    but I DO love the clean aesthetic and obviously running an IGH makes sense in my Wisconsin winters. We'll see what next year brings...
    "You don't cross my ***** line, I don't cross your ***** line".
    - James Lahey Sunnyvale Trailer Park Supervisor

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by lamard View Post
    oh, now i see how to build moonlander wheels!!! so is that an aftermarket clamp on the left side of the park 29er adapter?
    Item # TS-2EXT
    Truing Stand Upright Extension

    TS-2EXT Truing Stand Upright Extensions install in seconds on any TS-2 Truing Stand, allowing the stand to be used on wheels with hubs up to 160mm wide (tandem and downhill bikes), as well as on 700C wheels with a 29 mountain bike tire installed. In addition, specially sized bosses on the TS-2EXT serve as adaptors so the TS-2 Truing Stand can be used with wheels using 12mm, 15mm, 20mm or 25mm thru-axle hubs with removable axles.



    These allow you to work on hub widths up to about 175mm when used as designed. Note that you have to reverse at least one, and swap/mod things to take the 191mm width of a moonlander build.

    Park Tool Co. TS-2EXT : Truing Stand Upright Extension : Wheel Truing Stands and Accessories
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by deleteyourselph View Post
    I guess I didn't even have a clue on how much a rohloff hub was until I started really looking. I always figured they were like $500 not $1,500!!! The weird thing is that I see people using these a lot on forum pics. Are people really dropping a frame's worth of money on a single hub, or am I just cheap and should get with the program? A Nuvinci is probably around the top of what I would want to pay. Maybe I'll just end up keeping my Pugs running a regular rd forever...
    The people in question are spending the same amount as a Moonlander + a Pusley (2 frames).

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by deleteyourselph View Post
    I guess I didn't even have a clue on how much a rohloff hub was until I started really looking. I always figured they were like $500 not $1,500!!! The weird thing is that I see people using these a lot on forum pics. Are people really dropping a frame's worth of money on a single hub, or am I just cheap and should get with the program? A Nuvinci is probably around the top of what I would want to pay. Maybe I'll just end up keeping my Pugs running a regular rd forever...
    Although my Pugs runs on a $250 Alfine 8 IGH I do own 2 Rohloffs. I've never regretted those purchases and will just keep moving those hubs from bike to bike until I die when I'll leave them to someone else to try and wear out.

    I won't argue the value of a Rohloff [it gets tiring], but if you amortize the cost over a long time [ie. decades] the cost to use it is quite reasonable.
    Safe riding,

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  25. #25
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    Well here is the final product. Ran into some minor hiccups along the way. Zzzz didn't know he would need the Mr. Whirly offset with the Rohloff. Had to get a pair of those. So ok, I guess one hiccup. Anyways here is the short list:

    20" Moonlander Frameset
    FSA Orbit Headset
    Old Salsa Bar and Stem
    Mr. Whirly Offset Spindle/104/58mm BCD Spider
    RaceFace 100mm BB
    Salsa Chainring
    SRAM X.9 Disc Brakes
    Cane Creek ThudBuster
    Salsa Flip Off
    Surly Clownshoes
    Surly SS Hub Front
    Rohloff Internal Rear
    BFL Front and Rear (what else is there really?)

    Front wheels laced up perfectly with 261/262mm spokes for anyone interested. We got the tiniest bit of snow the other day and Z'Moonlander is begging for more! Thanks for checking it out.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Moonlander/Clownshoe Landing Commence...-moonlanding1.jpg  

    Moonlander/Clownshoe Landing Commence...-moonlanding2.jpg  


  26. #26
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    just needs a chain

    get it out and tell us what its like, mine wont be long........shame im poorly at the minute even to ride my pugsley
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  27. #27
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    Please break down (pis would help) setting up the ML with the Rolf. Im trying to talk myself into a IGH. Congrats fellow astronaut.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ia_ss157 View Post
    Well here is the final product. Ran into some minor hiccups along the way. Zzzz didn't know he would need the Mr. Whirly offset with the Rohloff. Had to get a pair of those. So ok, I guess one hiccup. Anyways here is the short list:

    20" Moonlander Frameset
    FSA Orbit Headset
    Old Salsa Bar and Stem
    Mr. Whirly Offset Spindle/104/58mm BCD Spider
    RaceFace 100mm BB
    Salsa Chainring
    SRAM X.9 Disc Brakes
    Cane Creek ThudBuster
    Salsa Flip Off
    Surly Clownshoes
    Surly SS Hub Front
    Rohloff Internal Rear
    BFL Front and Rear (what else is there really?)

    Front wheels laced up perfectly with 261/262mm spokes for anyone interested. We got the tiniest bit of snow the other day and Z'Moonlander is begging for more! Thanks for checking it out.
    Seriously well done. Getting a Rohloff Moonlander out the door before most folks have even gotten the bike....does raise the bar.
    38 54' -77 15

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadester View Post
    Item # TS-2EXT
    Truing Stand Upright Extension


    These allow you to work on hub widths up to about 175mm when used as designed. Note that you have to reverse at least one, and swap/mod things to take the 191mm width of a moonlander build.

    Park Tool Co. TS-2EXT : Truing Stand Upright Extension : Wheel Truing Stands and Accessories
    And here's the mod for Moonlander - drill out the smaller hole to match the larger (1/2"), get a fender washer for the QR (so it doesn't have problems with the bigger hole), cut away the "ramped" part and possibly a bit of the uncut body. I did it with a small mill, but anyone with patience and a hacksaw could do it - I'd drill a hole where I wanted the cuts to join so there's a radius in the corner. Also, for the amount of "lip" I left, the cassette lockring hits before the axle nut does, so the cassette must be removed - but the cogs in the cassette also hit the body of the adapter unless more of that is cut away. I'm betting disc rotors will need to be removed too.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Moonlander/Clownshoe Landing Commence...-img_1742s.jpg  

    Moonlander/Clownshoe Landing Commence...-img_1738s.jpg  

    Moonlander/Clownshoe Landing Commence...-img_1741c.jpg  

    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

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  30. #30
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    awesome.

    two suggestions?

    1) I think the monkey bone is much cleaner than the speedbone

    and

    2) I think the cable routing that most other choose (ext box pointed backwards) is cleaner and probably better from a snagging stuff and dragging it into the wheel perspective....

    see HERE

    Just a suggestion...

    It has be contemplating a rohloff for my pug (have one on the big dummy)

    g

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    C'mon, we're dyin' here...get a chain on that mofo and give us a ride report!

  32. #32
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    details!

    Any problem mounting the OEM2 adapter with the horizontal dropouts? And I wonder if you're hitting the seatstays or chainstays at all? Can't wait to hear how it rides

  33. #33
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    Smile Moonlander

    Great build with the IGH. Let us know how it rides compared to a Pugsley.

  34. #34
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    Does the ClownShoe/BFL combo support the Rohloff Speedhub 500/14 in a Moonlander frame?

    H.D

  35. #35
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    Moonlander w rohloff

    ?

    Look above in this thread for a successful build.

  36. #36
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    Ride report......Please

  37. #37
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    Today was my first chance to take my ML on Lost Lake Trail in southcentral AK.

    My previous bike was a pugs with darryls and BFLs. I had some doubts about how much bigger a clownshoe rim would make the bfl, and then I saw them side by side. I live in rural alaska and often am putting in first tracks on area trails. Plus I'm a fat bike guide and end up doing most of the "work" those days even if i'm in a group. I was getting that feeling with the pugs that if I had a little more float i'd be happy.

    Single digit temps for highs all weekend left the snow dry and even tho the trail has seen a lot of snow machiners, it was not packing down well and there was a couple four inches of powder that was loose on the surface.

    Its steep on the way up and pushed half the time, although i found more places i could ride with the moonlander vrs the pugs. More traction. I haven't scaled either bike, but the moonlander is lighter and i noticed that pushing.

    I pushed as far as the cabin, so less than 3 miles and something like 1700ft gain. I took video and will post that later, but what a ride down. Its a like controlled fall or sledding with brakes and a handle bar.

    Overall, I'm very impressed with the performance and the fatness. Much different bike than my pugs with BFLs. If you ride perfectly groomed trails, or are a total weight weenie, its not your bike. I was looking for super fat fun hog for bombing down sledding hills and soft xcountry trail and thats what Surly delivered.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Moonlander/Clownshoe Landing Commence...-img_1764.jpg  

    Moonlander/Clownshoe Landing Commence...-img_1761.jpg  

    Guided Mt. Bike Tours on Alaska's Kenai Peninsula
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  38. #38
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    Sunning pics, nice to know they are being loved too.
    2014 milage so far - 2,485
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    Smile Moonlander

    Great scenery. Looking forward to more feedback with additional trail riding. I would expect a lot more fun with gravity in your favor with the wider footprint but am really interested in how your Pugsley rides trails compared to your Moonlander. Your time on your bike ,as a guide, should give us a lot more discussion with your nicely built Surly over the next few weeks. As an aside what do most people use for their winter riding pedals and what footwear is the most popular for your tours?

  40. #40
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    Need to get back to Seward and ride Lost Lake in the winter. I miss that view.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sewered Rider View Post
    Today was my first chance to take my ML on Lost Lake Trail in southcentral AK.

    My previous bike was a pugs with darryls and BFLs. I had some doubts about how much bigger a clownshoe rim would make the bfl, and then I saw them side by side. I live in rural alaska and often am putting in first tracks on area trails. Plus I'm a fat bike guide and end up doing most of the "work" those days even if i'm in a group. I was getting that feeling with the pugs that if I had a little more float i'd be happy.

    Single digit temps for highs all weekend left the snow dry and even tho the trail has seen a lot of snow machiners, it was not packing down well and there was a couple four inches of powder that was loose on the surface.

    Its steep on the way up and pushed half the time, although i found more places i could ride with the moonlander vrs the pugs. More traction. I haven't scaled either bike, but the moonlander is lighter and i noticed that pushing.

    I pushed as far as the cabin, so less than 3 miles and something like 1700ft gain. I took video and will post that later, but what a ride down. Its a like controlled fall or sledding with brakes and a handle bar.

    Overall, I'm very impressed with the performance and the fatness. Much different bike than my pugs with BFLs. If you ride perfectly groomed trails, or are a total weight weenie, its not your bike. I was looking for super fat fun hog for bombing down sledding hills and soft xcountry trail and thats what Surly delivered.
    The view is amazing! It has to be photo shopped...... kidding.
    How do you like that frame bag? I just ordered one.

  42. #42
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    I can't believe i forgot to mention the bag! I also got the half top tube bag, thinking i'd sell the one i don't like. I am keeping both. Mittens, tools/pump, thermos (in a down tube sleeve) and a jacket all went in without it disforming and getting in the way. Lots of room left over and bag holds its shape.

    https://www.revelatedesigns.com/inde...1&ProductID=16

    I only met eric (the creator of revelate) once when he came to give a talk about his fat bike ride along the coast of southeast AK. Quite the testing grounds.

    The bike i reviewed is stock build for the rental fleet, I'll have my custom build finished soon. X9, truvative cockpit, formula brakes (oro get it?), gold and blue.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Moonlander/Clownshoe Landing Commence...-img_1778.jpg  

    Moonlander/Clownshoe Landing Commence...-img_1779.jpg  

    Guided Mt. Bike Tours on Alaska's Kenai Peninsula
    www.sewardbiketours.com

  43. #43
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    superb looking moony, makes my wait more tough looking at it, but nice all the same
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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by tndmnuts View Post
    Great scenery. Looking forward to more feedback with additional trail riding. I would expect a lot more fun with gravity in your favor with the wider footprint but am really interested in how your Pugsley rides trails compared to your Moonlander. Your time on your bike ,as a guide, should give us a lot more discussion with your nicely built Surly over the next few weeks. As an aside what do most people use for their winter riding pedals and what footwear is the most popular for your tours?
    I had a chance to ride the day before this on flat trail that was snowed over and I was the first one on the trail that day. Defiantly more float than my pugs, I didn't have both to ride side by side but don't think i would have been riding as easily (and continuously) on the pugs. I'll do a side by side comparison soon, but my initial test with the moonlander is so far so great.

    I wear hiking boots or xtratuffs* and platforms. Just easier and warmer. And if its wet and puddely the xtratuffs keep you dry. There's no changing shoes at the trailhead, no clogging cleats, I can get off and be fully ready to hike, no cold toes. My clients either bring their own footwear (spd's are still popular in winter, and are better if you are riding groomed/packed trails and aren't hiking a lot) or ride platforms.

    *Xtra tuffs aka the Alaskan Sandal
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Moonlander/Clownshoe Landing Commence...-img_1183.jpg  

    Guided Mt. Bike Tours on Alaska's Kenai Peninsula
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  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by ia_ss157 View Post
    So finally got the rear hub offset info from Surly for the Clownshoe. They quoted me -8mm Non-Drive / +8mm driveside. Came up with 239/241mm 2x for a Rohloff build. Used 238mm for ND and 240mm for the drive. ND spoke length were spot on, Driveside could have been 241mm.

    I have to thank whomever threw out the idea to flip the 29er extension around. All it took was a large washer and an M6 bolt and nut combo. Washer was large enough to allow plenty of vertical movement for axle leveling.

    The rim was the most round and true fat wheel I have built other than the Marge. Still had that singlewall skip at the seam, but great round. Not to hard to get to even tension as well which was a surprise in contrast to my Fat Sheba's.

    Just waiting on some final additions. Front Hub, Crank, etc. Should be done by the end of the week! Front wheel just takes a 20mm offset on both sides. Should have known that one. Pics when it is all done!
    Hi,

    I am planning to do the same build and was hoping you could save me some time Which model of the Speedhub are you using (CC, OEM, TS, ...) and which other accessoires from Rohloff did you need to mount it and be able to use it?

    thanks in advance

    Filip

  46. #46
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    It appears that a moonlander has landed in the uk.....

    Adventures Await Bothy Bikes

    Shop is only 1 hour drive for me, but I'm working in Norway for next few weeks
    Not long for Salty & Coastkid now though
    Drink coffee....ride bikes....eat cake
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  47. #47
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    Sweeeeet!

    I heard a press bike arrived on December, never heard of any shops getting one, maybe this shop is the only one?

    I have to wait as usual for mine, though the pug keeps me occupied I suppose....
    2014 milage so far - 2,485
    www.ukfatbikes.co.uk

  48. #48
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Andy74's Avatar
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    MY MOONY HAS LANDED!!!
    MY MOONY HAS LANDED!!!!!

    It seems the possibilities for new screen names are endless....................

    moonlandy......hmmm that has nice ring to it, or

    moonlandrew.......or maybe

    sandy...........

  49. #49
    mtbr member
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    I'm too today take from post office first Moonlander in Russia

  50. #50
    Geordie biker
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    I think mine is finally on its way, got an email saying dispatched
    2014 milage so far - 2,485
    www.ukfatbikes.co.uk

  51. #51
    mtbr member
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    Looks like i can only claim to have the 1st ML ordered in Scotland now
    been nice to have got the 1st to go with the 1st pug
    plan it...build it....ride it...love it....
    http://coastkid.blogspot.com/

  52. #52
    Geordie biker
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    Quote Originally Posted by coastkid71 View Post
    Looks like i can only claim to have the 1st ML ordered in Scotland now
    been nice to have got the 1st to go with the 1st pug
    Waiting for reply I have sent to double check, been a long wait bud....
    2014 milage so far - 2,485
    www.ukfatbikes.co.uk

  53. #53
    mtbr member
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    I shall call her,................................Moonlandrea
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Moonlander/Clownshoe Landing Commence...-dscn0515.jpg  


  54. #54
    Chad
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    Got mine, rode it, LOVE it.

  55. #55
    Geordie biker
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    Looks like plenty are changing bits soon as they land, mines due in 13 days, then whenever it gets here from the store......

    I have got some jones loop bars ordered but nothing else lined up.
    2014 milage so far - 2,485
    www.ukfatbikes.co.uk

  56. #56
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    i have one inbound.

  57. #57
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    saltyman where are you getting your loop bars from?

  58. #58
    Geordie biker
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    Charlie the bike monger, importing from jeff this year.

    Jeff Jones Cycles
    2014 milage so far - 2,485
    www.ukfatbikes.co.uk

  59. #59
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    Thanks for mentioning the Jones Loop bars Saltyman.
    The bars look sweet!
    I ordered mine today.

  60. #60
    Geordie biker
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    Quote Originally Posted by bprsnt View Post
    Thanks for mentioning the Jones Loop bars Saltyman.
    The bars look sweet!
    I ordered mine today.


    Used the H titanium bars on my ti jeff jones and also my ti moots, absolutely loved them.

    I'm going for the black aluminium loops for the moonlander, ideal for those long rides in tricky places, I noticed when riding the pugs, I could do with a easier bar to guide the front end through rocks etc.
    2014 milage so far - 2,485
    www.ukfatbikes.co.uk

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