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  1. #1
    Frt Range, CO
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    Moonlander with an Alfine

    I wanted a wider, lighter footprint for my Pugs; I started looking at upgrading to Rolling Darryls and BFLs. North Central Cycle had a variety of Pugs, Necromancers, Mukluk and Moonlanders in stock so I thought I’d stop by and see how the wider rims looked on a Pugs. Once I arrived at NCC I couldn’t stop looking at the Moonlander. Chad and I measured the chainline of the MOW Whirlys and quickly discovered an Alfine should work just fine. Right size, really fat, fits an Alfine…within an hour a Moonlander and all the bits needed to convert it to an Alfine IGH were paid for and ordered.

    When I arrived home with my new catch I was wondering just how wifey would handle the new beast. She actually laughed, claiming that for me, “looking” at new bike is the same as going to look at a puppy. My two sons were suitably understanding of their Dad’s weakness and knew they’d benfit from an extra fat bike in the house

    With a few days to wait while the extra IGH bits arrive, I began readying my new steed for its Alfine.

    Last time it’ll look like this:


    Extra derailleur bits stripped off the Moonlander:

  2. #2
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    keep us updated
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  3. #3
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    Looking at an Alfine 8 for Moonlander frame.

  4. #4
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    Alfine Eleven!

  5. #5
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    I had an Alfine 8 put on my Necromancer Pug this week and it shifts so smooth you can barely feel it!

  6. #6
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    What does the bike feel weight wise with the Alfine?

    Any noticeable rearward weight shift or all good?

  7. #7
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    Added a couple of pounds

    I had the Alfine 8 installed before my Necromancer left the shop, so I don't know how it would have felt before. However, it does add a few pounds to the total weight of the bike. I weighed the bike at the shop and it was 41 pounds after the build -- I think the standard weight is 37 or 38 pounds. I bought the Alfine 8 mainly because I wanted less clean-up after a dirty ride. I also installed Gore Ride On Sealed Low Friction Cables so I don't have to worry about any problems with the cables either. You can see my entire list of modifications at:
    Surly Necromancer Pugsley (Black Ops Pug) « All Seasons Cyclist

  8. #8
    ugh
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    I already have my alfine 11 and have a moonlander on order, what front chainring size are you planning ? I currently have a 20t on the alfine so was thinking a 32 or maybe smaller ?

    Why have you made me so excited on a Monday ?

  9. #9
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    Nice looking bike!



    Undecided on the chainring size.
    Last edited by myheadsashed; 12-18-2011 at 03:11 PM. Reason: Adding text

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ugh View Post
    I currently have a 20t on the alfine so was thinking a 32 or maybe smaller ?
    I was running a 32T x 21T on my Alfine Pug for sand/snow and bikepacking. I just put on a 23Tor 24T cog to give me lower gears for very steep techy MTB trails.
    Safe riding,

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  11. #11
    ugh
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I was running a 32T x 21T on my Alfine Pug for sand/snow and bikepacking. I just put on a 23Tor 24T cog to give me lower gears for very steep techy MTB trails.
    Thanks, Now I just need to find out where to get a 30t chainring for the mwod 58bcd cranks.

  12. #12
    Frt Range, CO
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    IGH on a Fat Bike

    I run a 32x22 on my Alfine 8 29’er MTBs, mainly because it’s easy to acquire chainrings/cogs in these sizes for ubiquitous 4x104mm cranks. Any 4x104mm crank is easily converted to a single speed/IGH crank with the addition of a Surly stainless chainring and e13 bash guard. It’s a conservative set up, many other IGH users are running this primary gear with no ill effects (on an Alfine 8) Here’s my stock pugs crank with the Surly/e13 set-up:



    Presently on my Alfine 8/Pugs with 32x22, I mostly use 1,2,3 and almost never use 7th and 8th gears. On long climbs I feel the need for even lower gears; the only question is how much abuse an Alfine 8 is able to withstand. With bike, gear and me the Alfine 8 is being subjected to almost 300lbs. It’s not uncommon to stall, in first gear, on steep climbs (highest torque situation for an IGH).

    On my Moonlander I am going to stay with the Alfine 8 but depart from my usual 32x22 primary gear and start moving to lower primary gear. The Mr Whirly has an option for a 5x94mm spyder, which allows a min 30T (and even special order 29T). I am also acquiring a 24T Alfine rear cog, a 30x24 is a 16% drop compared to 32x22. This will shift the overall gear range from 22~68 gear inches to 19~58 gear inches.

    This is a starting point for lower gears. If everything feels right, I have a few more options to drop the primary gear further. A special order 29T chainring is available from Homegrown, I also have a 26T Alfine cog. This would drop the overall gear another 11% with an overall gear range of 17 to 52 gear inches and allow 6-7 useful gears on the Alfine.

    I can even see the ability of a Mr Whirly to take a single speed/IGH front ring of 22T, this would allow a 22x22 to be used. I’m a few rides away from trying such a low primary gear on an Alfine 8.

    In any case, I will be taking an Alfine 8 to final failure or successfully use 1:1 primary gear on an Alfine 8.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by All Seasons Cyclist View Post
    I had an Alfine 8 put on my Necromancer Pug this week and it shifts so smooth you can barely feel it!
    Be sure to stop pedaling when shifting gears.

  14. #14
    ugh
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    Now it makes sense, I was missing the different spider options for the mister whirly cranks.

    Think I will order the 94bcd spider and a 30t chainring from hbc as a starting point.

    Thanks for the help.

  15. #15
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    Can.Not.Wait.

  16. #16
    Frt Range, CO
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    Changed to a bolt-on axle for the 135mm Surly front hub:





  17. #17
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    Good man. QRs give me the heebie jeebies.
    Disclaimer: I run Regular Cycles (as of 2016). As a profiteer of the bicycle industry, I am not to be taken very seriously.

  18. #18
    Frt Range, CO
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    Measuring the chainline of the existing set-up

    I like to calculate the measurement from the far edge of the seat tube to the chainring so I can line everything up perfectly. I this case, for a 46.8mm chainline on an Alfine the distance from the Moonlander’s far edge of seat tube to the chainring is:

    Chainline = (Distance from seat tube to chainring) – (OD of seat tube)/2 – offset

    (Distance from seat tube to chainring) = Chainline + (OD of seat tube)/2 + offset

    For an Moonlander offset of 28mm, 29mm seat tube diameter and an Alfine 8 or 11 the desired 46.8mm chain line means the distance from far side of seat tube to center of chainring is:
    (Distance from seat tube to chainring) = 46.8mm + 29mm/2 + 28mm = 89.3mm

    Here’s a measurement of the existing chainline to the inner ring land of the Mr Whirly (88mm), close:



    This is interesting because the inner ring land of the Mr Whirly is a 5x58mm bolt circle, a 22T chainring could be used with a 22T Alfine cog for a 1:1 primary gear.

    Hmmm, here's the single speed version of a Moonlander with 22x20 set up:



    I wonder if this will work? Will the chain derail?

  19. #19
    Frt Range, CO
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    Wheel build

    With respect to initial trueness, my Clownshoes aren’t any better than the Large Marges I own. I relied on my Park TM-1 tension measuring rig to set final spoke tension. The welded joint has a big hop on it (seems to be the norm for Surly rims); I had to loosen the spokes near the weld by 2~4 turns to equalize the tension on them. I added two extra turns of tension on the non-driveside to set the correct wheel dish. My Park truing stand doesn’t have fat bike/rims upgrades so I just tensioned and trued the wheel on the bike. I was able to feel the super wide rim flex when I stressed-relieved the wheel. I wonder if Surly will have to sell no-hole Clownshoes for Clydes?




  20. #20
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    Alfine 11 phatty.........
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Moonlander with an Alfine-photo.jpg  


  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by pursuiter View Post
    With respect to initial trueness, my Clownshoes aren’t any better than the Large Marges I own. I was able to feel the super wide rim flex when I stressed-relieved the wheel. I wonder if Surly will have to sell no-hole Clownshoes for Clydes?
    If you really need strength you'll have to go double wall:




    Only issue is 36h only - oh, and availablility. The cross section has 2 verticals between top and bottom - I recall folks cut out the inner between them, leaving box sections on either side, and even cut out windows in the top. Still stout.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

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  22. #22
    Frt Range, CO
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowboygrrl View Post
    Alfine 11 phatty.........
    Nice bike! I passed on the 11, instead going for the proven 8 in my quest for reliable, low gears comparable to a derailleur equipped 29er.

  23. #23
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    Actual build:
    The 22T front chainring has a few issues:
    - Really small chainring/cog doesn’t have enough chain slack; installing the wheel in horizontal dropouts is difficult.
    - The 22T front ring is a very small diameter; the effect on a Moonlander is the chain runs very close to the chainstay.

    I dumped the 22T and went to the Mr Whirly 5x94mm spyder and a Surly 30T chainring. For the bash guard I had an old clear e13 5x94mm bash guard but it was for a 48T chainring. I cut it down and sanded it smooth. Glad I had this laying around; I haven’t seen anything for sale that fits this old bolt pattern.



    To get the inner ring land to 46.8mm chainline I needed to move the bottom bracket’s A1 washer to the driveside bearing and add an extra 2mm of spacers. Another option would be to use the outer ring land, in that case keeping the A1 washer on the non-driveside would be close to 46.8mm. I wanted a bash guard so the chainring would have to go on the inner ring land.



    Chainline came out right on:


  24. #24
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    In the back I used a 24T cog. I’ve never used such a large diameter cog; it has issues clearing the Alfine’s cassette joint. I spent time figuring out a set of no-turn washers that will allow the cassette joint to clear the Moonlander’s chainstay and 24T cog. A few initial trials with various washers revealed an interesting problem. The Alfine would shift gears on the bike stand without issue. When I went for a ride the axle would turn a few 10s of degrees when the hub was subjected to rider torque (instead of the small power input on the repair stand). Depending on which washer are used, the slight rotation can wedge the cassette joint arm into the chainstay or seatstay. When the cassette joint wedges into a stay the shifting suffers.

    I ended up using yellow with tab forward on the drive side and brown with tab forward on the non-drive side. Right now I’m using tugnuts; I needed help lining everything up. In the future I expect I’ll be able to operate without them.



    The yellow/brown washer combo set the cassette joint between the seat/chainstay so I routed the shifter cable on the downtube, over the bottom bracket and along the top of the chainstay. Plenty of space between the tire and BFL:



    Someday I’d like to route the shifter cable along the top tube and down the chainstay but the large diameter cogs are making it more difficult. With this set-up everything works, I’ll stick with it for now.

  25. #25
    Frt Range, CO
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    I’m all set for my experiment into what I consider very low primary gears with respect to an Alfine 8. Right now I'm running 30x24, if all goes well I’ll be moving to a 29x26. Just for reference, an Alfine 8 and a 32x22, 1st gear is the same as a derailleur gear of 22x28 and 8th gear is the same as a 32x13.5. With a 30x24 the Alfine 1st gear is the same as a derailleur gear 22x33 and 8th gear is the same as a 32x16. With a 29x26 the Alfine 1st gear is the same as a derailleur 22x37 and 8th gear is the same as 32x18.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by pursuiter View Post
    I’m all set for my experiment into what I consider very low primary gears with respect to an Alfine 8. Right now I'm running 30x24, if all goes well I’ll be moving to a 29x26. Just for reference, an Alfine 8 and a 32x22, 1st gear is the same as a derailleur gear of 22x28 and 8th gear is the same as a 32x13.5. With a 30x24 the Alfine 1st gear is the same as a derailleur gear 22x33 and 8th gear is the same as a 32x16. With a 29x26 the Alfine 1st gear is the same as a derailleur 22x37 and 8th gear is the same as 32x18.
    is nobody concerned with breaking the transmissions? 29x26 is very far away from the recommended ratio, 30x24 is also very far how long have you been riding with this?

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by yxan View Post
    is nobody concerned with breaking the transmissions? 29x26 is very far away from the recommended ratio, 30x24 is also very far how long have you been riding with this?
    Where can I find this "recommended" ratio?

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by pursuiter View Post
    I run a 32x22 on my Alfine 8 29’er MTBs...In any case, I will be taking an Alfine 8 to final failure or successfully use 1:1 primary gear on an Alfine 8.
    Quote Originally Posted by yxan View Post
    is nobody concerned with breaking the transmissions? 29x26 is very far away from the recommended ratio, 30x24 is also very far how long have you been riding with this?
    Quote Originally Posted by druidh View Post
    Where can I find this "recommended" ratio?
    Exactly, druidh, I plan to find out if the Alfine 8 is breakable. I don't need more than 300% range, it's the low gear I'm missing, esp when climbing on a fat bike.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by druidh View Post
    Where can I find this "recommended" ratio?
    32x17 is real close to their recommended ratio (it should be 1.9)

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by yxan View Post
    32x17 is real close to their recommended ratio (it should be 1.9)
    Wrong, old myth, nobody broke one yet, do you ever try something new? BTW, many riders using 32x22 and 32x23 for several years (including me).

  31. #31
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    Newb here. I'm planning a Fat build with Alfine 8. I'm really interested in long term reliability with low primary ratios.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by pursuiter View Post
    Wrong, old myth, nobody broke one yet, do you ever try something new? BTW, many riders using 32x22 and 32x23 for several years (including me).
    Check out the IGH forum. Alfine 8's are definitely breaking, but it's not clear exactly why. Mine is run at an illegal ratio and doing okay, but certainly wouldn't assume an Alfine 8 is bulletproof.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  33. #33
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    I've seen one broken Alfine 8 on that forum and it's not clear the conditions. Considering the same person broke an Alfine 11 it's curious at best. I asked him if he was shifting while under load but there wasn't any response. As for an illegal ratio on an Alfine 8, there isn't any such requirement from Shimano....

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by pursuiter View Post
    Wrong, old myth, nobody broke one yet, do you ever try something new? BTW, many riders using 32x22 and 32x23 for several years (including me).
    snap I'm just going to dodge your jab and get right to it, I destroyed an Alfine 11 transmission by running 32x22.

  35. #35
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    You've mixed Alfine 11 with Alfine 8. Very different hubs....

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by pursuiter View Post
    I've seen one broken Alfine 8 on that forum and it's not clear the conditions. Considering the same person broke an Alfine 11 it's curious at best. I asked him if he was shifting while under load but there wasn't any response. As for an illegal ratio on an Alfine 8, there isn't any such requirement from Shimano....
    I've come across a bunch of Alfine 8's that have broken online. I can't CSI the cause and clearly lots of Alfine 8s are rolling around with very low input ratios.

    There are a lot of factors to consider both on the user end and the manufacturer's end that could lead to failures. I'm a chicken legged weakling that's less likely to break an IGH than a 220lbs muscular power house.

    On my Pugs I care reasonably little about the Alfine 8 because I can swap in the front fixed gear wheel and keep rolling so I won't be stuck 30 miles from the car hiking.

    OTOH if I was going someplace remote with a bike I couldn't swap the wheels on I'd want a Rohloff in back.

    I'm just building up a 29er MTB with a Alfine 11 I'll abuse a bunch and see what happens. I have a Rohloff for that bike, but wanted to give the A11 a shot first to see if I can break it....
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  37. #37
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    I may go for another Alfine 8 spd on my new Surly thats due soon, but not until next year,
    If so i will be going for double ring up front and using the Alfine dual wheel chain tensioner, as done here on the forum on a necromancer pug, that way i dont need chain tugs and will get that really low 1st gear i could never get with just 8 speed before, also means i can use a 20t hub sprocket,
    My last Alfine ground and dragged like hell while freewheeling and nearly pulled your feet off the pedals if you tried to freewheel, although it still changed gear perfect! ,
    It was probably all the sea water it went through , though maybe the big 24t hub sprocket i used put too much strain on a bearing inside the free wheel bit of the hub?, who knows...
    Thing is no one seems to really know about them inside and there problems here in the UK,

    Where does Shimano say about a recommended ratio?, i have never managed to find anything by them saying so?
    plan it...build it....ride it...love it....
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  38. #38
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    There is mention of gear ratios in the Alfine 11 instructions here:
    Product

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowboygrrl View Post
    There is mention of gear ratios in the Alfine 11 instructions here:
    Product
    Yes, but what they're talking about is the input ratio. Too low of an input ratio is like getting a really long cheater bar - you can twist and crush parts inside the hub if you gear low and power up steep stuff.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

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  40. #40
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    The Extralite 30T front cog would be a no-no then ?

  41. #41
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    My intent of this thread was to document how to install an Alfine 8/11 on a Moonlander with 28mm Offset and Whirly cranks. I hope it was clear.

    I appreciate all the input on how low I should go with my Alfine 8, and some of your fears that I am going to damage an Alfine 8, As a point of reference, I've been trashing an Alfine 8 with 32x22/23 for the last 5 years, I've set up 7 bikes with Alfine 8 and never had a failure yet. The only reason I bought a new Alfine 8 was that I only have 36H Alfine 8 hubs and the new fat rims are 32H only. Now I own 4 Alfine 8 hubs. If I break one, I will not be sorry.

    As for any bad luck stories with Alfine 8, I have my doubts about the conditions surrounding them. A good example is this:

    My last Alfine ground and dragged like hell while freewheeling and nearly pulled your feet off the pedals if you tried to freewheel,...
    In this case, it's clear the hub's bearing adjustment has shifted from proper to mal-adjusted, too tight. IGH's are relatively new for most folks and they don't understand when the hub needs service. Most LBS are not up to speed on this "new" technology. As a point of reference, I have a 5 year old Alfine 8 with many MTB miles that's so well broken in it's freewheeling resistant is the same as a Shimano freehub. Mobil 1 ATF as a lube helps too

    My first step down from the well-proven Alfine 8 and 32x22/23 primary gear is 30x24 primary gear, a 11% reduction in primary gear. I consider this a very reasonable step. I've been grinding my Moonlander with new Alfine 8 and 30x24 to the top of the local sledding hill, in first gear. So far it's holding, I'll ride 30x24 primary gear into next season. If everything works out, I'll drop the primary gear another ~10% and see how it work. Any/all results will be reported here and in the IGH forum.
    Last edited by pursuiter; 12-27-2011 at 05:16 PM.

  42. #42
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    Pursuiter--

    Don't let your feathers get ruffled. I've been following this thread with great interest--and it's great to see another local fat biker putting together a truly cool fattie. (Phattie?)



    Oh, and don't come crying to me when your Alfine asplodes.

  43. #43
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    Good thread.
    Another alfine 8 Moonlander under construction here..... All in put welcome

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by myheadsashed View Post
    Good thread.
    Another alfine 8 Moonlander under construction here..... All in put welcome
    I agree!
    Iam very interested in installing the same setup on my ML.
    Thanks for posting all this information

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by pursuiter View Post
    My first step down from the well-proven Alfine 8 and 32x22/23 primary gear is 30x24 primary gear, a 11% reduction in primary gear. I consider this a very reasonable step. I've been grinding my Moonlander with new Alfine 8 and 30x24 to the top of the local sledding hill, in first gear. So far it's holding, I'll ride 30x24 primary gear into next season. If everything works out, I'll drop the primary gear another ~10% and see how it work. Any/all results will be reported here and in the IGH forum.
    I'm really keen to hear how you get on. As I can't run Mr Whirlys, I'm currently on a 32T chainring. With a 30T option, I might well end up going 30x24 too.
    Last edited by druidh; 12-28-2011 at 04:01 PM.

  46. #46
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    Aline 8, going low, 29x26

    I spend a week riding in Jamaica on some of the hardest trails I every have ridden. I used a 32x24 on a 29'er hardtail the entire week and the hub worked/sounded/felt fine, I only wished I had a few lower gears, I really want the equivalent of a 22x36 low gear on my Moonlander. That requires a 29T front chainring and a 26T rear cog.

    I ordered a pair of 26Tx1/8 cogs from Mark in MPS. When I first installed the 26T cog on an Alfine hub, I noticed the snap-ring wasn’t seated correctly, It wasn’t sitting in the groove.



    I inspected the situation more closely and realized the 26T cog was too thick. I used my trusty ShopSmith belt sander to remove a few 0.01” until the snap-ring seated all the way in the groove.





    For the front chainring, I ordered a 29Tx1/8”x94mmx5 chainring from HomeBrewed Components, the SS forum sponsor. Now I have the equivalent of a 22x37.5 low gear and 32x18 high gear on my Moonlander. I almost never need a higher gear, and when I do it’s on the road with a tailwind.

    I’ll be grinding on this ratio all spring/summer, it’ll be interesting to see if the Alfine 8 can hold up. Please note: I'm running Mobil 1 ATF in the Alfine 8. I smear grease inside the cassette joint to prevent water intrusion. I never shift under load.

  47. #47
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    [QUOTE=I ordered a pair of 26Tx1/8 cogs from Mark in MPS.[/QUOTE]

    Pursuiter,

    Been running Alfine 8x with 24T rear on my Pugsley for 2 years now without problems. Although I don't do the same amount of riding in saltwater as Coastkid does. Also been looking for a 26T cog, any chance of further details where you got your from?
    Thanks

  48. #48
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    I bought my 24T and 26T cogs from Mark Stoich, he sources them from Europe:
    Large Cogs for Internal Geared Hubs

  49. #49
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    on some bikes i used this cogs...



    22tooth 1cm offset cogs... mostly when we build 100mm (4inch) wheels... the problem is you can't use them in stock with an alfine because of the shifting mechanism... but its possible to sand some part of the shifting machanism down to fit this cog... and you will have no more worries about chain rubbing


  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tibor View Post
    ...22tooth 1cm offset cogs... mostly when we build 100mm (4inch) wheels... the problem is you can't use them in stock with an alfine because of the shifting mechanism... but its possible to sand some part of the shifting machanism down to fit this cog... and you will have no more worries about chain rubbing...
    Thanks for that info. I've got one of those cogs and didn't think it would work on an Alfine.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tibor View Post
    ...22tooth 1cm offset cogs...and you will have no more worries about chain rubbing ...
    For a Moonlander or Pugs, the chain is centered over the chainstay with the standard 47mm chainline.:



    What kind of frames/rear spacing do you use a 1cm offset cog on?

  52. #52
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    Thank for the inspiration.
    Alfine 11 speed running Hbc 30t front and sram 24t rear.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Moonlander with an Alfine-imageuploadedbytapatalk1333620122.399753.jpg  

    Moonlander with an Alfine-imageuploadedbytapatalk1333620142.505025.jpg  

    Moonlander with an Alfine-imageuploadedbytapatalk1333620156.341288.jpg  


  53. #53
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    Is anyone using one these that is riding on the beach a lot? If so is it holding up well, or should I expect the salt life to kill the internals pretty quickly?

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpyGame View Post
    Is anyone using one these that is riding on the beach a lot? If so is it holding up well, or should I expect the salt life to kill the internals pretty quickly?
    Over the last 4 years my Pugs has spent months at the beach in Baja camped within a frisbee throw of the ocean. At home it's dealt with salted/slushy/sanded roads. It's got an Alfine 8 which is stil going strong.

    It's never been maintained. A bike mechanic friend has offered to show me how to open clean and relube these IGHs at his LBS after hours while we enjoy a dozen beers! I'm interested to see the insides of this hub and see how well or poorly it's really doing.

    From the outside it shifts and pedals like new...
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Over the last 4 years my Pugs has spent months at the beach in Baja camped within a frisbee throw of the ocean. At home it's dealt with salted/slushy/sanded roads. It's got an Alfine 8 which is stil going strong.

    It's never been maintained. A bike mechanic friend has offered to show me how to open clean and relube these IGHs at his LBS after hours while we enjoy a dozen beers! I'm interested to see the insides of this hub and see how well or poorly it's really doing.

    From the outside it shifts and pedals like new...
    Thanks for the information!!! Sounds like a nice way to go. Is there any reason you can't or would not want to use a belt drive system with the Alfine? All my riding is on flat ground.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpyGame View Post
    Thanks for the information!!! Sounds like a nice way to go. Is there any reason you can't or would not want to use a belt drive system with the Alfine? All my riding is on flat ground.
    I buy SRAM 8 spd chains for ~$15 each. They last a few years of neglect on my IGH bikes and then I throw them out and start fresh. I can field repair them [never had one need any repairs though] if needed. Chains work. They have a proven track record. The last two points are important if you ride far from services/help.

    A belt requires a modified frame and a bunch of expensive parts. I just haven't seen the point for any of my bikes - including my Pugsley.

    When I read people's reviews of belt drives online they are usually going from derailleurs + chain to IGH + belt. I'd say 90% of the benefits they ascribe to the belt drive is really due to the IGH. So if they ran an IGH + chain they'd be just as well off.

    I'm open minded and I keep reading about belts and giving it thought. Perhaps one day I'll switch one of my bikes to test a belt out. I'm not in a huge rush.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    ...When I read people's reviews of belt drives online they are usually going from derailleurs + chain to IGH + belt. I'd say 90% of the benefits they ascribe to the belt drive is really due to the IGH. So if they ran an IGH + chain they'd be just as well off....
    I hadn't thought about that aspect.

    I've done a few successful belt drive conversions and I think they are the way to go, but not yet.

    At the moment, there are too many gotchas for them to be widely adopted. Ideally the frame should be designed for belt - stiff chainstays and very accurate geometry being essential. Then there is the limited range of belt lengths and sprocket sizes, so unless you have a purpose built frame, many chainstay lengths will end up with an unsuitable set of ratios just to get the fit.

    Gates have a monopoly on the belt systems, and as a result the price structure is too high.

    However, in use there is nothing to beat them for silent running - not even the best set up chain comes close - and they are much lighter than a chaindrive setup.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post

    However, in use there is nothing to beat them for silent running - not even the best set up chain comes close - and they are much lighter than a chaindrive setup.
    My IGH + chains are silent. I'm also not really moved by weight loss - personally.

    I'd be moved by the following factors:

    - belt setup was cheaper than chain
    - belts had proven track record for being more reliable in harsh conditions
    - belt parts were more widely available than chains
    - belts were more easily field repairable than chains
    - belts offered more/easier gearing options
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    My IGH + chains are silent...
    You only think that.

    It will sound noisy once you have tried a belt in the same configuration.

    (I'm sure it is quiet)
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    You only think that.

    It will sound noisy once you have tried a belt in the same configuration.

    (I'm sure it is quiet)
    I have a friend who doesn't like to ride gravel because it's too noisy [not joking!]......there are times when I just have to laugh!...
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  61. #61
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    so...stay away from a belt for the time being and watch where the technology goes it seems like. Thanks for the input, much appreciated!

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    Pursuiter thanks for the great thread!
    By chance do you know if the Moonlander frame can use the 100mm center drilled wheels offered by US Cycles. I am wanting to use these double wall rims with the Alfine 8 hub. I have the wheel on the bike now but its way off as you can see. Not sure if I can get this to work without using a clown shoe wheel? I would like to start a thread but I dont have enough posts.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Moonlander with an Alfine-photo.jpg  

    Last edited by sposh; 04-11-2012 at 06:20 AM.

  63. #63
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    i would have had the same problem... but i solved it this way...maybe you work your way through the Thread... i planned using 100s but now used 80s but also doublewalled ones... at least i solved my problem with the Offset by using lateral lacing... so i got my wheel centered with the offset without drilling 18 holes new

    http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/wil...bs-754767.html

  64. #64
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    Thanks Tibor for the advice and the link to your thread.
    I was thinking about doing the same thing going to 80mm wheels if I could not get these 100mm wheels to work. I took my wheel with the frame to the local bike shop he looked kinda puzzled with the way the frame was designed. But he said he thinks he may be able to get it to work?

  65. #65
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    I love that Chain guard!!! Looks great!

  66. #66
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    “An adventure is misery and discomfort, relived in the safety of reminiscence.” Marco Polo

  67. #67
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    Update (cross-post from IGH forum):
    I've been beating on the Alfine 8 with the 29x26 gearing on technical single track designed to IMBA standards and weekly hill climbing to the top to the local sledding hill.

    - No damage climbing in 1st and 2nd gear on inclines that cause me to stall out to a stop.

    - My fitness is increasing and my weight is dropping, now I'm making it to the top of the sledding hill by standing and grinding with every last ounce of power in my legs, 210lbs/6-2.

    - The only drawback is the left side axle nut comes loose, I need to tighten it after every ride.

    Test will continue but if my fitness continues to increase and I can make it to the top of the sledding hill in 2nd gear, I'll change to a 29x22 or 29x24 to help the axle nut issue.

    Short review, it's hanging in there and it's fun to have a 17" gear on my Moonlander

  68. #68
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    Hi all. I'm curious if anyone else experienced failures in the years since last posting here? There's really not a whole lot of documented 5+ year experiences with low gearing ratios, fat bikes, and internal hubs.

    I have a moonlander, currently single speed, running a 28t narrow wide up front. Super curious about using an internal hub in the rear (either 3-speed sturmey archer, or maybe alfine 8 given how well its been reviewed in this thread).

    I did a race last weekend that had a rainstorm come through. Most bikes became inoperable, but my moonlander did great (until I got a damn flat tire). The internal hub seems like an obvious next step in my mission to keep this bike getting into as gnarly territory as possible (after i set these clown shoes up tubeless...).

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