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  1. #1
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    moonlander + alfine?

    Do you folks think regular cranks will work on a moonlander if fitted with an Alfine hub if building up from a frameset?

    It is only the rings that are different when running a cassette...right?

    Any thoughts on the chainline, or problems building this?
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  2. #2
    will rant for food
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    The chainline is going to be 70mm or 75mm for an Alfine 8.

    Cog "normal" mount chain line: 42mm
    Moonlander offset: 28mm
    42 + 28 = 70mm chain line
    Subtract ~4mm (half of chain width) means 66mm inside-of-chain
    Max BFL / 100 combo, 120mm / 2 = 60mm half tire width
    66 - 60 = 6mm chain/tire clearance

    Flip the cog around and you'll have 11mm of clearance.

    It is a matter of finding the right chain line at the crank.

  3. #3
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    mukluk with adapter is for qr's only isn't it?
    alfine's not a qr hub.
    sure it could be modded (and if so let us know!) but it doesn't sound like a bolt-on affair.
    If steel is real then aluminium is supercallafragiliniun!

  4. #4
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    The Pugs is the clear winner for use with the Alfine. Need the horizontal dropouts to keep chain tensioned. The Mukluk has a 170mm rear axle spacing and the Alfine is built for a 135 spacing. Want internal gears, better embrace the horizontal dropouts. It would take a huge piece of machining and modification to get the Alfine to work on the Mukluk.

  5. #5
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    He's asking about the Moonlander, not the Mukluk.

  6. #6
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    I am also interested in this... would an alfine moonlander be the ultimate beach bike?

  7. #7
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    Not, quite, but it would come close...
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  8. #8
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    What rim do you plan on using for this build-up?

  9. #9
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    As I am waiting for my Moonlander to land this post keeps me wondering.

    Could a stock Moonlander bike be converted to Alfine using the same stock rim?
    What else has to be replaced and would it be worth the investment?

  10. #10
    Frt Range, CO
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    Quote Originally Posted by bprsnt View Post
    ...Could a stock Moonlander bike be converted to Alfine using the same stock rim? What else has to be replaced and would it be worth the investment?
    I don't see why not. Buy a 32H Alfine hub with the install kit and shifter, new spokes/nipples and built it up. Add a SS chainring, a bash guard and a new 6/7/8 speed chain.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by pursuiter View Post
    I don't see why not. Buy a 32H Alfine hub with the install kit and shifter, new spokes/nipples and built it up. Add a SS chainring, a bash guard and a new 6/7/8 speed chain.
    Thanks for the info
    I will ask my LBS if they can set this up.

    I really do not want to screw things up

  12. #12
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    Here is what an Alfine 8 wheel looks like in a Moonlander [top = 28mm frame offset] and a Pugs [bottom = 17.5mm frame offset] using a Large Marge Offset rim...note I measured my LM rim offset as 13mm to the right, but it's a 3-4yr old rim so the offset may have changed. I also don't know what the offset is for a clownshoe or RD. But this gives you an idea. The extra frame offset makes the spoke tension go from nicely balanced to poorly balanced in the Moonlander.

    Safe riding,

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  13. #13
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    The image above shows that if you had a 25mm offset rim with an Alfine 8 in a Moonlander you'd get a nice evenly tensioned rear wheel.

    Anyone know how much offset there is an Rolling Darryl and a Clown Shoe rim?
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  14. #14
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    [QUOTE=vikb;The extra frame offset makes the spoke tension go from nicely balanced to poorly balanced in the Moonlander.

    Thanks for running the specs on this!

    I may just wait and lurk for a few months. I am sure someone will be doing this and report their results. I do not have the expertise to be messing around with this….

    I am lucky to have the time to ride.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by bprsnt View Post
    I may just wait and lurk for a few months. I am sure someone will be doing this and report their results. I do not have the expertise to be messing around with this….

    I am lucky to have the time to ride.
    If you are getting a Moonlander complete you might as well ride it as is for a season and then see what you think.

    I think IGHs are the hot ticket for a fatbike, but I wouldn't bother installing one on a fatbike that came with a derailleur until I wore the stock parts out.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  16. #16
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    I am also interested in this... would an alfine moonlander be the ultimate beach bike?
    yes! except i found even with a 32 front chainring and a 24t rear on the Alfine 8 speed it was still not a low enough geared 1st gear for really soft sand,
    My pug running a 22T front 36T rear 1st gear is a lot lower, 7th gear on the rear was the same as the mentioned Alfine ratio, riding my mech pug along side friend Jasons Alfine pug on the same ratio i used to use, my 3rd gear was the same as his 1st.

    I plan to run my Moonlander with a 20t front 36tooth rear 2x9 giving a real low 1st gear to enable it to go where, with an extra 1 inch of rubber it will go easier than my pugsley on its limits

    Once the Alfine 8 speed has a much lower 1st gear ratio, and an overdrive 8th gear then were cooking with gas
    Last edited by coastkid71; 12-01-2011 at 04:18 PM.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post


    The image above shows that if you had a 25mm offset rim with an Alfine 8 in a Moonlander you'd get a nice evenly tensioned rear wheel.

    Anyone know how much offset there is an Rolling Darryl and a Clown Shoe rim?
    the holes on the darryl are ~26mm from each other, so roughly 13mm from center just like your marge rim. it makes sense, as the qbp spoke calculator recommends the same method to find spokes for each.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post


    The image above shows that if you had a 25mm offset rim with an Alfine 8 in a Moonlander you'd get a nice evenly tensioned rear wheel.

    Anyone know how much offset there is an Rolling Darryl and a Clown Shoe rim?
    looks like you're using my friend Karl's Freespoke utility? In the rims database, he's got specs on all three rims: Freespoke

    Looks like 20mm on the clownshoes and 12.5 on the Darryl.
    Look out honey, 'cause I'm usin' technology

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    ...The extra frame offset makes the spoke tension go from nicely balanced to poorly balanced in the Moonlander....
    How is it going to work for an cassette hub?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elderberry View Post
    looks like you're using my friend Karl's Freespoke utility? In the rims database, he's got specs on all three rims: Freespoke

    Looks like 20mm on the clownshoes and 12.5 on the Darryl.
    I was gonna ask what calculator that was - thanks to you and your friend Karl! I usually use Damon Rinard's Spocalc Excel spreadsheet calculator, but it doesn't give you the cool graphic.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

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  21. #21
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    Im hoping to go with the Alfine 11 for the Moonlander. Can someone breakdown this discussion into a summary for those of us didnt go to MIT?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fresno View Post
    Im hoping to go with the Alfine 11 for the Moonlander. Can someone breakdown this discussion into a summary for those of us didnt go to MIT?
    It's just bikegeekspeak - wassamaddaU?

    Seriously, it's just the measurements of the parts and how they go together - what's your specific Q?
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadester View Post
    It's just bikegeekspeak - wassamaddaU?

    Seriously, it's just the measurements of the parts and how they go together - what's your specific Q?
    So.....if I start with built ML, what needs to be done to install a Alfine 11?

    "specific Q"???

  24. #24
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    Alfine and any disc cassette hub have the same symmetry of hub flanges, I would expect they have the same issue. How does a disc cassette hub work on a Moonlander? Maybe the clown shoes have more offset?

    edit: clownshoe offset is 28mm, 16mm more than an LM. That should fix vik's issue and allow an Alfine to work on a Moonlander (and a standard 135mm disc/cassette hub too).
    Last edited by pursuiter; 12-02-2011 at 05:12 AM.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fresno View Post
    So.....if I start with built ML, what needs to be done to install a Alfine 11?
    Buy a 32H hub Alfine hub, install kit, shifter, spokes/nipples, SS chainring, bash guard and new chain. Built the wheel, remove the deraillieurs/shifters etc, install all the new stuff.

  26. #26
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    Alfine 8 with Clownshoe in a Moonlander above [20mm rim offset & 28mm frame offset] doesn't build up with as even tension as in a Pugsley with a ML or RD.



    XT Hub with Clownshoe in a Moonlander above [20mm rim offset and 28mm frame offset] builds up with nice even spoke tension - similar to the Alfine 8 in a Pugs.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fresno View Post
    So.....if I start with built ML, what needs to be done to install a Alfine 11?

    "specific Q"???
    My concern would be setting up the chainline with a ML and Alfine.

    On my Pugs I use a Philwood BB which I can adjust left and right to fine tune the chainline. I'm not sure what the situation will be with the MWOD setup on the ML.

    If you are unsure I'd hold off a bit and let someone else figure this out and then you'll know exactly what you need to do. I don't think it will be long before a LBS tackles this project.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fresno View Post
    So.....if I start with built ML, what needs to be done to install a Alfine 11?

    "specific Q"???
    Simple answer - you will need to build the Alfine hub into a wheel.

    Longer answer - what we're talking about. You'll need new spokes of the right length for your build, and a calculator like Freespoke is a good one.

    Vikb posted screenshots of what you need. He's using the full calculator rather than the simple. You see the graphic - a simple view of what the wheel will look like in cross section.

    The spoke bed offsets (left/right) are the distance from centerline of rim. Putting them in negative means in the other direction - left offset negative becomes right. What Vikb is doing is using only the right hand spoke holes. All the new Surly rims have 32 holes on each side to allow this.

    Hub offset is the frame offset - 28mm in a moonlander, 17.5mm in a Pugsley.

    But to actually build the wheel? Go find a copy of Jobst Brandt's "The Bicycle Wheel", or look at Sheldon Brown's Wheelbuilding
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    [20mm rim offset and 28mm frame offset] builds up with nice even spoke tension - similar to the Alfine 8 in a Pugs.
    There's another thread that says CS offset is 28mm, not 20mm.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by pursuiter View Post
    There's another thread that says CS offset is 28mm, not 20mm.


    Above XT hub with 28mm offset Clownshoe in a Moonlander.



    Above Alfine 8 with 28mm offset Clownshoe in a Moonlander.

    I don't have a CS so I can't confirm, but it looks like a 20mm offset rim is a better choice for a ML than a 28mm offset.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  31. #31
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    I suspect if you run that program for a stock Pugs wheel with Surly New SS hub and LM rim its not going to pass your standard either, the spokes on that wheel differ by ~2mm left to right side.

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