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  1. #1
    nvphatty
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    mechanical VS hydros

    With my short time here i've noticed many more mech brake setups as opposed to hydros and thought the most obvious reason why is for those that are in regions with bitter cold, snow etc conditions, that aside are there other scenerios that would have mechs the choice instead of hydros??

  2. #2
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    you probably see more out there since most of the "complete" bikes come with mechanicals vs. hydros.

    I switched my pugs over to hydros since 1) I had a set laying around after upgrading my ss and 2) I like the self-centering nature of hydros.

    Without the line of sight (which BFL on RD and pugs offset takes away), it is easier to set it and forget it with hydros.

    but that's just my opinion...


  3. #3
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    Mechs are easy to service in the field. You can argue that they require more service than hyrdos which levels the playing field.

    My Pugs has Avid BB7's on it.

    If I was buying new brakes for my Pugs I would put hydros on it. Since my current use doesn't involve straying too far from services.

    For most people I don't think it matters that much and I would just ride what you like or what came on your bike.
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  4. #4
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    I think the BB7s have many superior qualities providing good quality cable is used.

    But the best thing is the protection from my stupidity. Arrive somewhere, unload the various parts including the front wheel, then pull out the rest of the bike and naturally bump the front brake lever while doing so. Then follows a period of faffing about and cursing because naturally the tool that has been bought to separate pads is sitting on the bench at home. Doesn't have to happen often.

    I prefer BB7s despite owning a few sets of top grade hydros.
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  5. #5
    nvphatty
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregclimbs View Post
    you probably see more out there since most of the "complete" bikes come with mechanicals vs hydros.
    true enough

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    With my short time here i've noticed many more mech brake setups as opposed to hydros and thought the most obvious reason why is for those that are in regions with bitter cold, snow etc conditions, that aside are there other scenerios that would have mechs the choice instead of hydros??
    I have heard some claims of (some) hydro brakes becoming stiff/sluggish in the cold.
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  7. #7
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    For me it's the possibility that something might need fixing when I am further way from "civilization", even if that is only a few miles. I've been running BB7s on road/tourer/cx/commuter bikes for so long that I never think of them as being an issue.

    I guess that, if I was being a complete weight-weenie, I could put on that set of XTR hydros I have....

  8. #8
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    used BB7s on my jeff jones, mukluk, pugsley and now the moonlander, never had any issues with them.

    think lots of folk get embarrased to have non hyrdos on top end bikes etc, and see them as an inferior product seeing as they are cheap and simple.

    thats why they work so well, they withstand sea, sand, mud and anything i throw at mine, barely need adjusted, sometimes just once every 500 miles!!!!
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by saltyman View Post
    think lots of folk get embarrased to have non hyrdos on top end bikes etc, and see them as an inferior product seeing as they are cheap and simple.
    I use several sets of BB7s and several sets of Avid/Shimano hydros in my fleet. The hydros are much nicer to use and require less attention.

    For any new bikes I'll probably go with hydros only and move the BB7's around to any bike where field repair would be critical.

    Having said that I don't plan on getting rid of the BB7's until they are toast.
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  10. #10
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    I've got BB7 roads on my summer road bike and on the front of my winter road bike (don't ask), MTB BB7s on my Pugsley and Magura Julies on my Swift singlespeed MTB.

    The road BB7 is good but not exceptional. On the Pugsley they're awesome. If/when I need to replace the Julies they'll be with BB7s so that I can standardise across the 'fleet' BB7s deliver enough power/modulation for the riding that I do, I can maintain them myself and I only need one set of tools, pads etc..
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  11. #11
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    FWIW, I switched from hydros to mechanicals on my snow bike (9:Zero:7). The pistons on the otherwise-bombproof Hayes HFX Mag XC wheel calipers corroded after coming in contact with just a little road salt, and then stopped retracting properly. After an overhaul they are now living a happy second life on a different bike.

    The set of Avid BBDB brakes currently on the 907 are more than up to the task.

  12. #12
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    Salt water for myself beachriding,
    Hydro pistons eventually seize up with exposure to the conditions, Avid BB7s have proved to be up to the job of weekly duckings in salt water and still working ok.
    Just prep them beforehand by greasing every removable part and greasing the back of pads and inner cables and they will keep on working.

    I only wish Hope would make cable brakes so i could match my build preferances

    My third fatty build will have hydro Hope brakes as it will be used away from the beach
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    I have heard some claims of (some) hydro brakes becoming stiff/sluggish in the cold.
    I used to ride trials a lot, year round in Maine. Hydraulics definitely become sluggish in winter, at least Magura HS33's (rim brakes) did. One solution many trials riders use is to bleed their brakes with antifreeze. Some use pure water (not in winter obviously). However, antifreeze used to eat away the seals eventually. But, it's something to try. Don't know if DOT fluids (maggies use mineral oil) have the same problem.
    I got sick of bleeding brakes, got BB7's and haven't used else since... Plenty good for me, and pretty much maintenance free in my experience.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by drofluf View Post
    ...The road BB7 is good but not exceptional. On the Pugsley they're awesome....
    That's less to do with the BB7 and more to do with road levers flexing more than mtb ones.

    I get round the flex problem by removing as much compression as possible by using tubing instead of spiral wound outer cables, thus reducing the amount of wasted lever movement.
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  15. #15
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    I did notice my xt 775's getting stiff in the extreme cold but my Formula RX's have been rock solid down to -15f so far. I just don't care for BB7's, just a personal thing and believe me I've tried again and again to like them.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    That's less to do with the BB7 and more to do with road levers flexing more than mtb ones.

    I get round the flex problem by removing as much compression as possible by using tubing instead of spiral wound outer cables, thus reducing the amount of wasted lever movement.
    Thanks I'll look into it. Can you recommend a specific outer cable?
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    I did notice my xt 775's getting stiff in the extreme cold but my Formula RX's have been rock solid down to -15f so far. I just don't care for BB7's, just a personal thing and believe me I've tried again and again to like them.
    Conventional wisdom is mineral oil bad, DOT fluid good. I think Magura and Shimano are mineral oil Formula, Hayes, and Avid(?) DOT. I've had no problem with Hayes Stroker Grams down to -20F. BB 7 are trouble free though and the price is right.
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  18. #18
    nvphatty
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    Quote Originally Posted by sryanak View Post
    Conventional wisdom is mineral oil bad, DOT fluid good. I think Magura and Shimano are mineral oil Formula, Hayes, and Avid(?) DOT. I've had no problem with Hayes Stroker Grams down to -20F. BB 7 are trouble free though and the price is right.
    curious if those that use DOT could use mineral and vice versa once the system is free of its counterpart??

  19. #19
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    Nope. Seals won't take the change.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by drofluf View Post
    Thanks I'll look into it. Can you recommend a specific outer cable?
    Aluminium tubing from B&Q - it's cheap compared to bike cable. It can be bent by hand pressure to follow your frame exactly. You'll also need a liner. Find a place that sells and services airtools and they'll probably have a suitable diameter plastic tubing to use as liner.

    On this bike I have replaced most of the long runs with it. Get a length of the larger diameter too because you can cut it up and make cable stops with it.

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  21. #21
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    Check out JAGWIRE ripcord give excellent stopping feel due to the construction of the outer housing
    Ripcord Brake Kits | Jagwire USA

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by drofluf View Post
    Can you recommend a specific outer cable?
    Nokon cable system, rigid alu and comes in funky colours, though funky price too.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails mechanical VS hydros-nokon_4.jpg  

    mechanical VS hydros-nokon.jpg  

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  23. #23
    nvphatty
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatdurwood View Post
    Check out JAGWIRE ripcord give excellent stopping feel due to the construction of the outer housing
    Ripcord Brake Kits | Jagwire USA
    this is what i have for the RD along with a teflon coated cable.

  24. #24
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    A correctly set up Avid BB7 with SL7 Levers, and Linear housing will perform as well/ if not better, than some hydros. I love my BB7s, Ive loved BB7s since the old Grey/Silver editions.

    Depending on your riding style, climate, and money- there are lots of options out there. If you want a mechanical disk, the only choice is a BB7, the BB5's are good for entry level riding, but the BB7 is where its at.

    As mentioned before, with the HS33s- trials riders have been known to bleed those with everything from water to babyoil. Hydros will not perform very well in cold contitions- Im talking cold... snow, ice, just terrible days, and the oil will freeze up and you will get no modulation from your brakes.

    My thing with brakes, is I have a issues breaking the lines from hopping around doing trials stuff, a line brakes, and hydo fluid goes everywhere, contaminating your pads, and getting oil over everything. Its an expensive fix, and you need special equipment to bleed your brakes. With a Avid BB7- all you need is your multitool or a 5mm allen and a torx. Replacement cables are all of 5 bucks, where a brake bleed goes anywhwere from 12-25 at shops around the country.

    As for housing my only choice is Odyssey BMX linear cable. It has no flex at all. Your braking performance will increase greatly. I use this housing on every bike that has a Vee, or BB7 set up.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by literocola View Post
    A correctly set up Avid BB7 with SL7 Levers, and Linear housing will perform as well/ if not better, than some hydros.
    I think that statement pretty much says it all. Hope this does't turn into what typically happens on the brake forum Much has been said about BB7's against the rest of the world, but honestly you'd have to pry my Gustav's from my cold dead hands before I'd give them up. I even bough an extra set after learning they were being discontinue ( nothing good lasts very long and no they're not for sale : )

    Everyone can justify their BB7's if they want, but I personally wouldn't consider them. I'll keep my Gustav's which btw can run on common vegetable oil if you're biking in a third world and need a line repair......but mine are braided so little chance of that happening.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by literocola View Post
    As mentioned before, with the HS33s- trials riders have been known to bleed those with everything from water to babyoil. Hydros will not perform very well in cold contitions- Im talking cold... snow, ice, just terrible days, and the oil will freeze up and you will get no modulation from your brakes.

    My thing with brakes, is I have a issues breaking the lines from hopping around doing trials stuff, a line brakes, and hydo fluid goes everywhere, contaminating your pads, and getting oil over everything. Its an expensive fix, and you need special equipment to bleed your brakes. With a Avid BB7- all you need is your multitool or a 5mm allen and a torx. Replacement cables are all of 5 bucks, where a brake bleed goes anywhwere from 12-25 at shops around the country.
    .
    Yeah, we trials riders know a thing or two about setting up brakes eh?...
    I don't know how many times I had that plastic HS33 housing blow out on me and spray oil everywhere. They were great when they worked, but too much trouble. V-Brake/BB7 is where it's at, but I'm getting off topic...

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by suba View Post
    I think that statement pretty much says it all. Hope this does't turn into what typically happens on the brake forum Much has been said about BB7's against the rest of the world, but honestly you'd have to pry my Gustav's from my cold dead hands before I'd give them up. I even bough an extra set after learning they were being discontinue ( nothing good lasts very long and no they're not for sale : )

    Everyone can justify their BB7's if they want, but I personally wouldn't consider them. I'll keep my Gustav's which btw can run on common vegetable oil if you're biking in a third world and need a line repair......but mine are braided so little chance of that happening.....
    Suba, Have you used them in very cold weather? I've been under the impression that mineral oil brakes do get problematic in cold weather. I have no idea how cold it has to be before the problems start.
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  28. #28
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    Road my new XT set this last season, I did notice the brakes got sluggish when it got really cold and snow start to stick around the bike. My new project will use BB7s only because I have a set in good condition with great cables.

    During the warmer months I love hydros especially the XT set I have now on a rigid fork, my hands hurt enough from the bumps.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sryanak View Post
    Suba, Have you used them in very cold weather? I've been under the impression that mineral oil brakes do get problematic in cold weather. I have no idea how cold it has to be before the problems start.
    I don't ride extreme cold and never will. I'm of the opinion that what works.... works. Having said that I think DOT is less viscus than mineral oil but it's also hydroscopic. That alone would imo cancel it's advantage in cold humid ( snow) conditions. In that context I give mineral oil the edge.

    From what I understand mechs can have it's own set of problems with extreme cold/snow/slush/ice/freezing rain/ even mud. The calipers cantilever arm and cable could become encrusted which could prevent leverages and power to the brake. The return springs/cable housing might become contaminated (and frozen) to the point that the brake doesnt release and the pads drag. Under those conditions prematurely wear of the pads can get worn away extremely fast.

    I have nothing against BB7's or mechs. I've tried them. They do work, but for me hydro's work better. Again not saying anything bad about mechs. I prefer my Gustav's. Too bad Magura decided to stop making them.
    Last edited by suba; 04-08-2012 at 07:22 PM.

  30. #30
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    While we're on the topic of brakes... I've got a Pugsley complete with BB7's and they squeal like a banshee. What can I do to quiet them? I have some Hope hydros on my other bike, and switching to organic pads quieted those brakes up.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoogieMang View Post
    While we're on the topic of brakes... I've got a Pugsley complete with BB7's and they squeal like a banshee. What can I do to quiet them? I have some Hope hydros on my other bike, and switching to organic pads quieted those brakes up.
    Organic pads will help. Also check the following:

    Are the calipers aligned with the rotor?
    Are the fixing bolts for the rotor, adapter and caliper tightened to spec? Loose bolts =
    Is the inner pad adjusted close to the rotor? If the rotor flexes too much, the brakes will be noisy.
    Are the pads clean? Buff those babies on some 800 grit sandpaper and then give 'em a squirt of Isopropyl to clean off the glaze.
    Is the QR tight? Loose wheels will make the brakes vibrate.
    Loose spokes? Same as above?

  32. #32
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    The fatbike really seems like the right bike to always use bb7's based on its intended use

    Hydros on most of my other bikes.

    I think road bb7's rule, you guys need to work on setup. Although those Alu. Brake lines are pretty trick!
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  33. #33
    nvphatty
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    Since my pug will be exposed to little snow/water and freezing temps hydros will be my choice.

  34. #34
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    Imo

    Well, I don't have any experience with Mechanical disc but I have but some pretty hard miles on my elixir 9's. I commute in Anchorage and experience temps in the -20's and never had a issue with performance what so ever. The only issues came from my racing in the abominable snow series ASS. Two different races saw temps in the -20 range and even with repeated crashes in the snow the brakes lost minimal performance. The only complete failure was in a race about 20 degrees that I spent most of my time walking and crashing, we had lost of fresh soft snow so it packed in everywhere. After a mile of so of riding without crashing they worked again. I say they do pretty well in the cold IMO.
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoogieMang View Post
    ...I've got a Pugsley complete with BB7's and they squeal like a banshee. What can I do to quiet them?...
    That's the built in humidity audible warning device...
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  36. #36
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    I had mechanical rim brakes for years, and I broke a few cables, had to change the cables at least twice a year because there was dirt creating friction, during winter time sometimes the cable would freeze as moisture accumulated in the cable.....
    I can't believe the cable issues are solved? If they are solved for brakes, why aren't they solved for shift cables?
    I would only consider mechanical discbrakes in dry areas, not in humid or changing condtions.

    I never rode under -20C, but I can imagine that the oil thickens, or if the oil is contaminated with water that the water freezes. The solution seems simple: bleed regular and consider oil with lower viscosity?

    For the mechanical brakes I used to carry a spare cable on bikehollidays, for hydraulics I only carry spare pads. I once cooked up a hose of my XTR brakes in the transalp making the brake spongy and shortening the cable without bleeding did the trick.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nothing's impossible View Post
    ...I can't believe the cable issues are solved? If they are solved for brakes, why aren't they solved for shift cables?...
    Keeping the moisture and dirt out isn't too hard. I use motorbike lever guards on my levers (as in this pic). They protect the top end of the cable. A simple bellows as used on most v-brakes looks after the other end. My cables are assembled dry - no lube. No problems.

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  38. #38
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    I started with the BB7's when I first built up the fatty. They are great brakes & plenty of power. However the modulation & lever adjustment just does not compare to my Hope Tech X2's so that is what I run now & I love em.

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    Velobike, nice that it works out, but for me that is a lot of hastle to avoid a problem that does not exist for hydraulic brakes.

    But if we would all ride the same bike with the same parts this would be a boring place!

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by canardian View Post
    Organic pads will help. Also check the following:

    Are the calipers aligned with the rotor?
    Are the fixing bolts for the rotor, adapter and caliper tightened to spec? Loose bolts =
    Is the inner pad adjusted close to the rotor? If the rotor flexes too much, the brakes will be noisy.
    Are the pads clean? Buff those babies on some 800 grit sandpaper and then give 'em a squirt of Isopropyl to clean off the glaze.
    Is the QR tight? Loose wheels will make the brakes vibrate.
    Loose spokes? Same as above?
    Bolts, QR and spokes are tight, but the pad adjustment might be off, and the pads could be glazed. I'll check them out. Thanks for the tips.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    That's the built in humidity audible warning device...
    I'm on the western slope of Colorado... There is no humidity here at all, especially with the severe lack of snow this year.

  42. #42
    nvphatty
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoogieMang View Post
    I'm on the western slope of Colorado... There is no humidity here at all, especially with the severe lack of snow this year.
    Very little of either near the Sierras as well.

  43. #43
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    wife runs BB7's (203mm) and speed dial levers which I found to be pretty darn good. they do like hydraulics need to be set up correctly. some are just crap though - bro in law has Shimano BR-M415 (alivio) on his bike and they are utter pants rear has next to no modulation and front takes an age to stop.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by sryanak View Post
    Suba, Have you used them in very cold weather? I've been under the impression that mineral oil brakes do get problematic in cold weather. I have no idea how cold it has to be before the problems start.
    When it goes below freezing the oil in Shimanos gets thick. at -5C you start to notice it, at -15C they start to become unsuable. Avid, Hope and Formula use Dot and that don't freeze.

    I have had Shimanos and Formulas and I like Formulas better since they don't freeze. The problem I've had with all hydros is that after a while they will start developing problems. Stuck pistons, weird leaks, weird loss of power, the handle starts to go into the bar, air in ther system, the automatic pad adjustment not really being so auto as advertized and so on.

    All of these problems require you to remove the pads, oil the pistons, refill the fluid and bleed them well, and with my formulas I have to remove them from the bike and rig them up on a broom and its a lot of hassle for being "trouble free". And if you go to the trouble of doing one you can just as well do the other, and that takes at least 1 hour, and its a god damn hassle for nothing.

    I don't have any mechanicals but the next ones I get will definitely be mechs. Its a wire. You adjust the wire and lube moving parts, no matter whats up its a 2 minute operation.

    My hydros have worked well when they're working but they only work well for so long. Until you need to bleed them and do all of the above.. For me its not worth it.

    Hydros are really nice, until they need service, then you wish you'd never bought them.
    Last edited by car bone; 04-11-2012 at 08:26 AM.
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  45. #45
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    Hydros are great for me...but again it does not get that cold in Texas.

  46. #46
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    the hydros on my full suss have been trouble free after 2yrs of abuse, no leaks, no bleeding never of loss of braking power.

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    Carbone,
    I believe you are using wrong or to old oil in your shimano brakes? I never had problems with my XTR brakes and rode in windy below 15C condtions, A change at -5C probably means water in the system?
    But for low temperature riding you could swap to the lighter hydraulic oil from magura (or citron), it is a lighter oil that will not thicken as much. A car that rides in death valley needs other engineoil than a car in the arctics!

    Clean DOT fluid performs better in cold and extreem hot environments, but DOT absorbs water, so old, wet oil will cause problems as well.

    Bleeding my shimano XTR or magura HS33 takes me much less time than changing the cabling of my wife's mechanical rimbrakes! It not just greasing the mechanical parts (I hardly do that).

    And, after reading my previous post, in that downhill in the 2007 transalp where i smoked my brakes, the vast majority had issues on that slope! Just to put things in its context!

  48. #48
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    The DOT is made to absorb water so it won't damage/corrode the interior of the system, I guess it makes more sense one cars with have steel tubes. Dot needs to be replaced every year. But then again, I think all types of brake fluids should be replaced every year, since these systems are far from being air/water/mud/whatever-tight. I pretty much gave up on mineral oil, and shimano don't make any spares any more for their brakes, they are disposable. At least formula makes spares.

    I'm pretty much done now with hydros. Gonna try a pair of hopes and compare them to bb7 on my next build but I'm not expecting much difference to be honest.

    If something can't be fixed with only a hex wrench then its not really suited for bikes IMO.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

  49. #49
    nvphatty
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    Replacing DOT every year is not necessary, simply bleed the system. There's no perfect setup so it's trade off of sorts...ie gain something with one and loose with the other and vice versa.

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    Car bone, I don't bleed my brakes until needed, mostly because they start to feel spongy. I rode a few years pretty intense with HS33 before I bled them, same for the XTR. But the hope M4's will indeed need more regular maintenance I am afraid.

    Spare shimano parts, they are available but so expensive that it is more interesting to replace the whole system! I don't know about formula spares?
    I killed the rear brake handlebody in a crash and it was cheaper to buy a complete new rear XT brake than a new old XTR handle.
    But for 5 years I nor someone I know had problems with XT or XTR brakes, while all the people with other lightweight brakes the same age replaced them, sometimes rather fast!

    Fixing a mechanical brake with only a hex?

    To unscrew the plastic cover on the handle I need a small cross screwdriver
    and I need a good pair of pliers to cut the inner and outer cable and hold the end cap in place
    So leave the mechanical brakes at home and just sit on the tire

    I can imagine some advantage for every system, but they all have there good and bad points! If these hopes would disapoint me i buy XTR trail brakes.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    Replacing DOT every year is not necessary, simply bleed the system. There's no perfect setup so it's trade off of sorts...ie gain something with one and loose with the other and vice versa.
    If I bleed brakes I replace the oil until new, clear oil comes out.
    Sometimes I just fill a brake reservoir for somebody as a quick fix but i consider that bad practice.

    What do you understand under bleeding?

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    Replacing DOT every year is not necessary, simply bleed the system. There's no perfect setup so it's trade off of sorts...ie gain something with one and loose with the other and vice versa.
    Yeah thats spot on, you are only really trading one problem for another and shifting type of maintainence. What appeals to me is that mechs seems a bit more straight forward and lets say easier to quickly get roadworthy in morning before work. That being said, hydros very seldom just quit working fully just like that without warning.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nothing's impossible View Post
    If I bleed brakes I replace the oil until new, clear oil comes out.
    I do this too. And since you opened the system why not do it proper.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nothing's impossible View Post
    Car bone, I don't bleed my brakes until needed, mostly because they start to feel spongy. I rode a few years pretty intense with HS33 before I bled them, same for the XTR. But the hope M4's will indeed need more regular maintenance I am afraid.

    Spare shimano parts, they are available but so expensive that it is more interesting to replace the whole system! I don't know about formula spares?
    I killed the rear brake handlebody in a crash and it was cheaper to buy a complete new rear XT brake than a new old XTR handle.
    But for 5 years I nor someone I know had problems with XT or XTR brakes, while all the people with other lightweight brakes the same age replaced them, sometimes rather fast!

    Fixing a mechanical brake with only a hex?

    To unscrew the plastic cover on the handle I need a small cross screwdriver
    and I need a good pair of pliers to cut the inner and outer cable and hold the end cap in place
    So leave the mechanical brakes at home and just sit on the tire

    I can imagine some advantage for every system, but they all have there good and bad points! If these hopes would disapoint me i buy XTR trail brakes.

    I have had old rim maguras too, can't really remember models but I only bled those once in like 5 years. However those brakes felt very "sloppy" compared to the XTR V-s I had. I liked the XTRs much more.

    Formula has every little part as spares, getting in any local store here is definitely impossible but CRC has them. The point is that where a shimano brake when it breaks is useless the Formulas can be kept rolling for many more years if you want to. Cheap? I don't know, but its cheaper than buying new brakes.

    Yeah bike tools for me is: hexwrenches, torx, regular pliers, and an adjustable wrench (whatever they are called). No but seriously those are the most used tools, sure many parts needs special tools but the sheer simplicity of a wire can't be beat in many situations.

    I cut wires both plastic and steel with a knife and a hammer+wooden block The knife gets dull every time and then I just sharpen it. Creates really good cuts. Works good for electrical cables too. A knife is an underrated bike tool. You just need to know how to sharpen it.

    I'm wondering about Formula vs Hope? Same set of problems or is one better than the other?
    I have the older Megas fwiw.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

  55. #55
    nvphatty
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    Quote Originally Posted by car bone View Post
    Yeah thats spot on, you are only really trading one problem for another and shifting type of maintainence. What appeals to me is that mechs seems a bit more straight forward and lets say easier to quickly get roadworthy in morning before work. That being said, hydros very seldom just quit working fully just like that without warning.
    yes thanks. the hydro systems do not carry a large amount of fluid for pity sakes so bleeding is quick, short and done. IMO thats proper as the system does not require a complete disassembly in order to accomplish this.

  56. #56
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    On a picnictrip a few years ago we repaired a friends broken brakehose, the hose had snapped close to the calliper because it got stock behind a metal bar of a fence, My leatherman was enough to shorten and re-attach the hose.
    I considered spitting in the reservoir but there was enough oil left.
    It was limb home mode anyway, The front brake had to be taken of as the front got a to big blow but he had at least a brake.
    In such cas he might have been brakeless with mechanical brakes (but i can imagine situations where you are ****ed with hydraulics).

  57. #57
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    The biggest problem with hydros is that they can develop problems most regular people could not even imagine being the cause so they will never find the problem, so they need to take it to a LBS. Bikes are not rocket science and nobody should really be required to take the bike to such places. Sure most people here know how to maintain brakes, but we are not "most people".

    Mechs are fairly easy to understand for even a normal chimpansee, you pull the lever and something moves down at the disc. If its not moving theres your problem.

    I love my Megas, best brakes I have ever tried and i bought those for their reputation. Good power, good feel, and good modulation, and "fairly" problem free and fairly little maintaining needed. I just want even less maintaining, or should I say other types of maintainence, don't like this liquid stuff with pumps and bleedkits and whatnot.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

  58. #58
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    Just fyi. KTM uses mineral fluid in their brakes and clutch. If DOT was better they would likely use it.

    I don't know about other off road motorcycles as I don't have any.

  59. #59
    nvphatty
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    Quote Originally Posted by modifier View Post
    Just fyi. KTM uses mineral fluid in their brakes and clutch. If DOT was better they would likely use it.

    I don't know about other off road motorcycles as I don't have any.
    the vast majority of MC on/off road use DOT fluids with high wet/dry boiling points ala ATE supe blue, castrol SRF and Motul rbf 600 as the favs.

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