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  1. #801
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    I'm just messin with ya. Its not THE way to slacken a bike up, but it is A way..

  2. #802
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    Been away from the forum for a long time healing up from ruptured Achilles. Been a long brutal recovery. I have read through this thread and there has been so much tech talk back and forth, I am completely confused.

    I run 26X5 Jumbo Jims and I want a fork that will run 100 or 120 on my Les Fat depending on which works best for me.

    Based on advertised spec, I would choose the EXT model 120. Then, from what I understand reading here, I could reduce that travel to 100 with reconfiguration. However, I've read some contradicting talk here about using the non EXT model to run 5" tires.

    What is the general consensus? EXT???

    I'm traveling in Portland Oregon this week so I have the opportunity to visit the Universal Cycles store where they have these in stock, so just wanted to be correctly informed before I purchase.

    Thanks!
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  3. #803
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    Quote Originally Posted by KTMNealio View Post
    I'm just messin with ya. Its not THE way to slacken a bike up, but it is A way..
    It's a terrible idea, to raise the front end and change all the geo, shortening ETT, raising the bb, and slacking the STA.

    Anglesets work, I've used them on multiple bikes and tandems. I'd still be using one on the Wozo if I was running a 120mm fork.

    but yeah, I thought you'd gone on a bender

  4. #804
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shamis View Post
    Been away from the forum for a long time healing up from ruptured Achilles. Been a long brutal recovery. I have read through this thread and there has been so much tech talk back and forth, I am completely confused.

    I run 26X5 Jumbo Jims and I want a fork that will run 100 or 120 on my Les Fat depending on which works best for me.

    Based on advertised spec, I would choose the EXT model 120. Then, from what I understand reading here, I could reduce that travel to 100 with reconfiguration. However, I've some contradicting talk here about using the non EXT model to run 5" tires.

    What is the general consensus? EXT???

    I'm traveling on Portland Oregon so I have the opportunity to visit the Universal Cycles store where they have these in stock, so just wanted to be correctly informed before I purchase.

    Thanks!
    No, you are all messed up.

    The STD should fit a 26 x 5 without modifications. If it needs more clearance you add a spacer to limit travel, but A-C is unchanged.

    Get an STD 120 and use a pump to adjust travel between 100-120mm.

  5. #805
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    Just an FYI:

    Ordered a Pro STD when these first came out. Just took it apart for the first time since I was only getting 90mm of travel for what should have been a 100mm fork.

    Turns out this is an EXT, not STD set 100 with 7 spacers on the bottom and 1 on top. I removed 2 bottom spacers on each side and now get 110mm without increasing AC length.

    Fits a 4.8 JJ on a Medium Carbon Fatboy with out any issues.

  6. #806
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    Dillinger 5 studded

    Did anyone tried Dillingers 5 with 120 STD? Or any of this fork for pivot les fat medium?

    Quote Originally Posted by BIke N Gear View Post
    Just an FYI:

    Ordered a Pro STD when these first came out. Just took it apart for the first time since I was only getting 90mm of travel for what should have been a 100mm fork.

    Turns out this is an EXT, not STD set 100 with 7 spacers on the bottom and 1 on top. I removed 2 bottom spacers on each side and now get 110mm without increasing AC length.

    Fits a 4.8 JJ on a Medium Carbon Fatboy with out any issues.

  7. #807
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    FYI. Anyone looking for a good deal on a EXT 120mm Worldwide just lowered the price to $665. Add in the RIDEFOR20 coupon and it goes to $532. I was tempted to go with EXT with that price, but still got a decent deal on the STD.

  8. #808
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    Just got word that parts are in to change an EXT to an STD. Contact Dirt works.

  9. #809
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSH View Post
    FYI. Anyone looking for a good deal on a EXT 120mm Worldwide just lowered the price to $665. Add in the RIDEFOR20 coupon and it goes to $532. I was tempted to go with EXT with that price, but still got a decent deal on the STD.
    Thanks for the deal coupon. I was torn between lauf carbonara (mostly for bikepacking) and mastodon pro (for everything), but finally have decided to go for mastodon pro 120 STD and just ordered one from Worldwide. I think it will be more versatile overall (just a little bit concerned about fork weight though - got used to carbon rigid now).

    As far as I understand from Nurse Ben's valuable comments, 120 STD have enough clearance for 26x5 and 27.5x4.5, correct? Is this without modifications or after adding bottom spacer?

  10. #810
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    So on a ride on Saturday I got blasted by ice droplets for about 20 minutes, creating a thin layer of verglas on the upper half of the stanchions (guess I was bumping along enough to keep the lower half clear). Looked like trouble but I didn't have anything to clear it with (like maybe an old credit card?).

    On the way down the fork started sinking and I started bottoming out the fork (2000í descent, pretty rough). I adjusted the low speed damping (red on-the-fly knob) from full open to half closed and it kept the fork from bottoming easily, but even after I dropped down and the ice cleared the fork was still sinking.

    Back home next morning, checked air pressure (unchanged) and lowered and raised fork (while pump attached) and everything seems normal. Any ideas? Clear verglas before descents? Something to try adjusting? Increase air pressure (set pretty low normally)? Get fork checked out?

    Thanks!

  11. #811
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    Manitou Mastodon?

    Apparently the comp wont work in the cold as well as the pro? So the pro is lighter, better damper and works under -20c?

    Also 120 pro can go larger and smaller? Only down to 100mm tho? Or can it go to 80mm
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  12. #812
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat-Tire View Post
    Mastodon is much wider than the Bluto. So much so that the tire hooks on my Kuat NV bike rack won't fit.
    Have you managed to fit the Mastodon into Kuat NV or you change the bike rack to 1UP? I asked Kuat if I could use any parts from NV2 which supposed to be wider and the answer was no.

  13. #813
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    So Iím a bit confused now on the whole adding bottom out spacers to get extra clearance for the STD. I should preface this by saying Iím only the messenger here based on a long discussion I had on the phone with Dirtlabs here in CO https://www.dirtlabs.com

    Anyway, I had my 120mm STD Pro dropped shipped to them to have them add one additional bottom out spacer to each leg (so 2 qty B/O spacers total) for the additional clearance and to bump the travel to 130mm. After discussing everything at length via email and then a long phone call today with them they indicated the additional bottom out spacer wonít provide any additional clearance for larger tires. I told them my understanding (based on the discussion on this thread) is that at full compression that the crown could contact the tire and that the additional bottom out spacer would supposedly provide additional clearance for larger OD tires. They insisted this is not the case? These guys have been in business a long time and have a great rep (they are also a Manitou official service center), but I'm still a bit skeptical based on all the dialogue here suggesting otherwise. At this point Iím just having them bump the travel to 130mm and hope for the best when I get it and test things out. I have an email into Hayes tech support to try and get the official lowdown as well.

  14. #814
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    This post (from a Manitou rep) and the information in the Mastodon Travel Adjust manual seem to make it pretty clear that you can limit the travel to add clearance by changing the spacer configuration.

  15. #815
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    Quote Originally Posted by david.p View Post
    This post (from a Manitou rep) and the information in the Mastodon Travel Adjust manual seem to make it pretty clear that you can limit the travel to add clearance by changing the spacer configuration.
    Yup I get it man and I explained that. We even had that travel adjust manual up talking through it, so no idea. Again, I'm just the messenger here

  16. #816
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSH View Post
    So Iím a bit confused now on the whole adding bottom out spacers to get extra clearance for the STD. I should preface this by saying Iím only the messenger here based on a long discussion I had on the phone with Dirtlabs here in CO https://www.dirtlabs.com

    Anyway, I had my 120mm STD Pro dropped shipped to them to have them add one additional bottom out spacer to each leg (so 2 qty B/O spacers total) for the additional clearance and to bump the travel to 130mm. After discussing everything at length via email and then a long phone call today with them they indicated the additional bottom out spacer wonít provide any additional clearance for larger tires. I told them my understanding (based on the discussion on this thread) is that at full compression that the crown could contact the tire and that the additional bottom out spacer would supposedly provide additional clearance for larger OD tires. They insisted this is not the case? These guys have been in business a long time and have a great rep (they are also a Manitou official service center), but I'm still a bit skeptical based on all the dialogue here suggesting otherwise. At this point Iím just having them bump the travel to 130mm and hope for the best when I get it and test things out. I have an email into Hayes tech support to try and get the official lowdown as well.
    Adding spacers under the bottom out bumpers is essentially an off label modification. It works and is completely safe but wasn't considered by forks designers and isn't in the official documents at all.

    The Mastodon is also unique in the way it is offered in different sizes but with the same lower legs. So don't expect everyone else to know about this and how it works. I don't even know if Manitou tech support know about this.
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  17. #817
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSH View Post
    So Iím a bit confused
    Yes adding one 10mm spacer to the bottom of each rod will change bottom out tire clearance. The 120std will become 110 with an extra 10mm of tire clearance.

  18. #818
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Adding spacers under the bottom out bumpers is essentially an off label modification. It works and is completely safe but wasn't considered by forks designers and isn't in the official documents at all.

    The Mastodon is also unique in the way it is offered in different sizes but with the same lower legs. So don't expect everyone else to know about this and how it works. I don't even know if Manitou tech support know about this.
    Ok thanks Dougal. I actually emailed them a screen shot of your post that "david.p" linked to above. I want to get this sorted before they send me my fork

    Quote Originally Posted by fugsworth View Post
    Yes adding one 10mm spacer to the bottom of each rod will change bottom out tire clearance. The 120std will become 110 with an extra 10mm of tire clearance.
    Yup got it...unfortunately the guys working on my fork seem to think otherwise

  19. #819
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    2018 Foes Mutz 150

    The all new, longer, lower, slacker version of the original "best bike ever"
    With up to 6.5" of travel, the new Mutz 150 breaks all fatbike rules and is truly ready for anything!
    From big hits in the dirt to snowy flow, this is your one bike to do it all.

    Gx11 with Mastodon 150. Race ready machine!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Manitou Mastodon?-foes-mutz.jpg  

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  20. #820
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    Bike is at the shop for installation of 100mm standard fork. We did a quick check of the tire clearance for the 29+ Chronicles and it looked good with it fully depressed. More testing is needed though. Iíll try to get some pictures too.

  21. #821
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    Winter is upon us, so I got the Barbes back on the Wozo.

    Set up: Barbe 27.5 x 4.5, Jackalopes, 8 psi, Mastodon STD set at 140mm (one travel spacer), no travel limit spacers used.

    Pressure dropped to zero, 200# body weight, repeatedly slammed down on the front end with all I got while moving and there was zero tire to fork interference.

    As Dougal said, this is not as safe as Manitou wants, so rider beware

    I also have a Monster fender installed under the fork brace and even with the same zero pressure slamathon I still stayed rolling; the fender did run, but the tire didn't stop.

    To be perfectly safe, you should add a single spacer to limit travel.

    Gotta love this fork. Using a shock pump I can reduce ride height and tweak handling on the trail, no fat fork touches that!

  22. #822
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Adding spacers under the bottom out bumpers is essentially an off label modification. It works and is completely safe but wasn't considered by forks designers and isn't in the official documents at all.

    The Mastodon is also unique in the way it is offered in different sizes but with the same lower legs. So don't expect everyone else to know about this and how it works. I don't even know if Manitou tech support know about this.
    So you were spot on here(i.e. Manitou tech support not knowing about this). I spoke with Dirtlabs again today, who spoke with Hayes/Manitou tech support at length this morning on adding the bottom out spacers to increase clearance. Manitou is maintaining the same position on this as Dirtlabs, so at the end of the day it sounds like Manitou's official stance on this is adding additional bottom out spacers makes no difference with regards to additional tire clearance....or at least that's what they are saying for whatever reason.
    I just told DL to ship me the fork and I'll hope for the best once I get it and test. Judging by the size/types of tires people are running with the STD I'm not too worried at this point.

  23. #823
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    Received my Mastodon std today and clearance seems fine compressed all the way with a 4.6 Flowbeist

  24. #824
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Received my Mastodon std today and clearance seems fine compressed all the way with a 4.6 Flowbeist
    Yup.

    Still leaves me wondering about the EXT... perhaps they're gonna increase travel down the road??

    I would so take another 10-20mm of travel!

  25. #825
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    After reading 9 pages of posts I understand STD/EXT, reasons to opt for the 120 over the 100, and ways to adjust travel and bump stop. Can anyone comment on real world differences between the Pro and the Comp (besides the obvious differences on paper)? I had my mind made up on a Bluto for my ICT, but after reading through this thread I'm not so sure. My local terrain features lots of rocks and roots so I'm looking for a fork that will take the edge off but not become a noodle when pushed hard in a corner. Weight and presumably a better damper favor the Pro. My wallet likes the Comp which is widely available and subject to some pretty deep discounts which are undercutting some Bluto offerings. I've not seen very many Pro STDs available and those that I have are close to MSRP. I assume that either would perform better than a Bluto. Any real-world impressions would be greatly appreciated.

    GtB

  26. #826
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    The Comp is a far better fork than a Bluto. The Comp weighs more than a Pro and is limited to 140mm max travel, otherwise they are nearly the same fork.

    For gawks sake, donít buy a Bluto, itís a terrible fork. If weight is your issue, get a Lauf or ride rigid.

    Friends donít let friends buy a Bluto.

    But if you insist, Iíll happily sell you my Bluto...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunther View Post
    After reading 9 pages of posts I understand STD/EXT, reasons to opt for the 120 over the 100, and ways to adjust travel and bump stop. Can anyone comment on real world differences between the Pro and the Comp (besides the obvious differences on paper)? I had my mind made up on a Bluto for my ICT, but after reading through this thread I'm not so sure. My local terrain features lots of rocks and roots so I'm looking for a fork that will take the edge off but not become a noodle when pushed hard in a corner. Weight and presumably a better damper favor the Pro. My wallet likes the Comp which is widely available and subject to some pretty deep discounts which are undercutting some Bluto offerings. I've not seen very many Pro STDs available and those that I have are close to MSRP. I assume that either would perform better than a Bluto. Any real-world impressions would be greatly appreciated.

    GtB

  27. #827
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    The Comp is a far better fork than a Bluto. The Comp weighs more than a Pro and is limited to 140mm max travel, otherwise they are nearly the same fork.

    For gawks sake, donít buy a Bluto, itís a terrible fork. If weight is your issue, get a Lauf or ride rigid.

    Friends donít let friends buy a Bluto.

    But if you insist, Iíll happily sell you my Bluto...
    Thanks for the insight Nurse Ben. It's a Surly so I really can't say weight is my main concern and keep a straight face.

  28. #828
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunther View Post
    Thanks for the insight Nurse Ben. It's a Surly so I really can't say weight is my main concern and keep a straight face.
    It's silly to talk about weight when we are riding bikes with large tires and big wheels. If anything, rotational weight has a bigger effect on ride quality than a heavy frame or fork.

    I think one of the reasons folks worry about fork weight is that adding weight up front makes it harder to manual... but then so does riding a bike with long chainstays. I ride a Wozo and Fatillac, both have short chainstays, both run a Fatillac, and both manual with ease.

    Instead of worrying about weight, folks need to choose bikes with better geometry.

  29. #829
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    Just another tire clearance datapoint on the STD Pro. Received my fork from Dirtlabs yesterday. They bumped the travel to 130, but did not end up adding any additional bottom out spacers. Installed today and did a test fit with both Chupas on i35s and 4.8 Jumbo Jims on Mulefut 80's. Plenty of clearance on both. Slammed w/ fork aired down the crown contacts the fender just a bit, but there is absolutely no tire rub...not even close....Manitou Mastodon?-masto-clearance.jpg

  30. #830
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    Cool-blue Rhythm

    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    The Comp is a far better fork than a Bluto. The Comp weighs more than a Pro and is limited to 140mm max travel, otherwise they are nearly the same fork.

    For gawks sake, donít buy a Bluto, itís a terrible fork. If weight is your issue, get a Lauf or ride rigid.

    Friends donít let friends buy a Bluto.

    But if you insist, Iíll happily sell you my Bluto...
    I sure am interested in getting the Mastodon but only because you can put a beefier tire in front. Also it sure is better susupension fork than Bluto, I have no doubt but never tried one. But before even considering getting one, I am going to wait at least a year to hear how Mastodon behaves in low temps.

    Currently I have a Bluto, been riding it for a year and a half - including winter. Had some problems with it @ -20C but changing oil to synthetic made it behave well even in lower temps. Overall, I am very happy with it and would never change it to a rigid or Lauf, no way.

    I read from internet that Bluto is very bad fork, twisty and everything so Internet must be right . On the other hand, it must be noted that I have never ridden a bike with excellent front end so riding one could change my mind.

  31. #831
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    Bluto still has one merit: lightest and cheapest (used) and I would still use one for racing purposes on trails were rigid is rough enough that it causes you to slow down.

  32. #832
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    Questions: I have a bucksaw with a bluto 120( yes, I know the bucksaw is designed for a bluto 100 but I run a lot of sag so the leverage should be limited), is the pro 120 worth the difference in price to the 120 comp for a bucksaw? Does anyone know the real difference in ride quality between the pro and the comp? Also, what is the weight difference between the 120 comp, 120 pro and 120 bluto? Any input you guys can give me would be great...thx
    The bike is never to heavy, you are just to WEAK!

  33. #833
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    Has anyone had problems where the brake post studs were too short? Just received a new Pro Ext for a customer. With a 180 rotor and Guide brakes we had to add a washer between the caliper and fork. I run the exact same setup on my bike and there was no need for that washer to space out the caliper. Has me a little concerned with the quality.

  34. #834
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    Quote Originally Posted by BIke N Gear View Post
    Has anyone had problems where the brake post studs were too short? Just received a new Pro Ext for a customer. With a 180 rotor and Guide brakes we had to add a washer between the caliper and fork. I run the exact same setup on my bike and there was no need for that washer to space out the caliper. Has me a little concerned with the quality.
    Same fork and brakes here but didn't have any issues.

  35. #835
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpd131 View Post
    So I have been very interested in the Mastodon and I've read this thread a few times. Though I will admit, I lose focus often.

    I run 26X4.6 Spec GC for fat and 29X3.0 Chupacabra. Right now I run 110mm of travel in my Bluto. 100mm travel did not seem like enough. I had 120mm but it made a difference in geo, but was very rideable. I could deal with the 531mm A2C, but I did not want the 551mm (the extra 20mm ride height for the EXT model). 120mm in the Bluto also made the flex more noticeable to me compared to 100mm.

    But according to the Mayor, I should be good the standard height Pro model for my tire choices. And according to Dougal, I should be able to lower the travel to 110mm if I desire, even though it is not stated that way by Manitou. This would be the exact same geo and specs as my Bluto, but with a better performing fork. No down side at all.

    Does anyone see this differently? If anyone has a different info, please share.......before I spend some money.

    Also has anyone tried this on the Pivot Les Fat? Are there any fitment issues for downtube?

    Mastodon 120std will not clear Pivot LesFat in medium. It needs maybe 1-2mm. When used with zero stack lower cup. It work with 18mm but it is little high. I will look for couple mm lower cup.

  36. #836
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    Quote Originally Posted by JacekB View Post
    Mastodon 120std will not clear Pivot LesFat in medium. It needs maybe 1-2mm. When used with zero stack lower cup. It work with 18mm but it is little high. I will look for couple mm lower cup.
    You've got to be kidding me. I am just about to make this purchase and I own the Pivot Les Fat in a Medium. I spent some time on the phone with Pivot and they assured me it fits all sizes with the zero stack headset.

  37. #837
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    Quote Originally Posted by JacekB View Post
    Mastodon 120std will not clear Pivot LesFat in medium. It needs maybe 1-2mm. When used with zero stack lower cup. It work with 18mm but it is little high. I will look for couple mm lower cup.
    Another option might be the Salsa Cane Creek +3mm crown race Salsa had made to allow the Bluto to clear some of their frames.

  38. #838
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    If you rotate the adjustment then yes with slightly touching frame. I have helicopter tape on downtube so it is maybe 0.5mm. But if you have the dumper knob in worst position it needs probably 1 to 2 extra mm. If you find nice cup or headset lower that is just few mm bigger than zero stack than let me know. I can send you picture.

  39. #839
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    This sounds really good for me. Where to buy it?

  40. #840
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    Will it work for pivot headset cup and bearings? They have some custom bearings I heard.

  41. #841
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    https://www.google.com/search?q=sals...+crown+race&oq

    I'm not sure if it will work with the stock lower cup/bearing on the Pivot. It's designed for the Cane Creek 40 bearing.

  42. #842
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    Quote Originally Posted by david.p View Post
    https://www.google.com/search?q=sals...+crown+race&oq

    I'm not sure if it will work with the stock lower cup/bearing on the Pivot. It's designed for the Cane Creek 40 bearing.
    I use the Cane Creek 110 ZS56 lower cup/bearing so it will work for me

  43. #843
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpd131 View Post
    You've got to be kidding me. I am just about to make this purchase and I own the Pivot Les Fat in a Medium. I spent some time on the phone with Pivot and they assured me it fits all sizes with the zero stack headset.
    Itís a really wide crown, many bike frames; esp smaller frames, will have clearance issues. It barely clears on a medium Wozo and does not clear on a small Wozo.

    Pivot probably hasnít had the chance to test their frames with a Mastodon.

  44. #844
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Itís a really wide crown, many bike frames; esp smaller frames, will have clearance issues. It barely clears on a medium Wozo and does not clear on a small Wozo.

    Pivot probably hasnít had the chance to test their frames with a Mastodon.
    Yeah, I've heard and seen it's wide, which is why I went to them. They stated that one of there employees had the fork and tested it. But, maybe it was the comp model they tested, which has the single damping adjuster and was able to clear the frame. The pro mode has two adjusters making it slightly taller and might be causing the issue. Hopefully someone posts a picture.

  45. #845
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Gotta love this fork. Using a shock pump I can reduce ride height and tweak handling on the trail, no fat fork touches that!
    Can you explain how reduce ride height on the trail? I also want to know if you have to cycle the fork when filling air to balance the chambers? It seems to be the case on my fork.

    I have installed IRT on mine, and it works much better than IVT.
    About travel, I am dissapointed that not gaining more than 140-142mm travel measured on my fork :-(

  46. #846
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Itís a really wide crown, many bike frames; esp smaller frames, will have clearance issues. It barely clears on a medium Wozo and does not clear on a small Wozo.

    Pivot probably hasnít had the chance to test their frames with a Mastodon.
    Interesting info. Nurse Ben. I'm considering buying the Wazo in a small, looks like I will not be running a Mastodon on it unless it can be resolved with a specific headset.

  47. #847
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiboy View Post
    Interesting info. Nurse Ben. I'm considering buying the Wazo in a small, looks like I will not be running a Mastodon on it unless it can be resolved with a specific headset.
    I'm going install a -1 works components headset on my Wozo/mastodon, I should gain some clearance??

  48. #848
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    Stock headset and 3mm thick cane creek race allowed plenty of clearance and my small wozo and Mastodon fork crown.

    Get a reverse rise stem by syntace to lower the bars. It allows me to run 140mm travel with good positioning with a flat bar.

    https://flic.kr/p/ZrWy99



    Quote Originally Posted by Tiboy View Post
    Interesting info. Nurse Ben. I'm considering buying the Wazo in a small, looks like I will not be running a Mastodon on it unless it can be resolved with a specific headset.

  49. #849
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    Attach the pump until it pressurizes, push or pull fork into the preferred travel extension, check pressure, then disconnect. The fork will maintain that travel until the pump is reattached.

    Real important to check travel each time pressure is checked as it's super easy to get less extension because the fork will sag from the weight of the bike/gravity.

    To get full travel, you will need to pull down on the wheel when the pump is attached, then disconnet before releasing tension.

    I get 150mm full travel from my 150mm fork and 140mm full travel from my 140mm fork.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rumblefish2010 View Post
    Can you explain how reduce ride height on the trail? I also want to know if you have to cycle the fork when filling air to balance the chambers? It seems to be the case on my fork.

    I have installed IRT on mine, and it works much better than IVT.
    About travel, I am dissapointed that not gaining more than 140-142mm travel measured on my fork :-(

  50. #850
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    An anglset will add about 10mm of stack, so for those into changing hta you can get a two for one if you have clearance issues.

    I don't thnk the Comp and pro have different clearance, same crowns, perhaps the damper knobs are different but not by much.

    Quote Originally Posted by GspotRider View Post
    Stock headset and 3mm thick cane creek race allowed plenty of clearance and my small wozo and Mastodon fork crown.

    Get a reverse rise stem by syntace to lower the bars. It allows me to run 140mm travel with good positioning with a flat bar.

    https://flic.kr/p/ZrWy99

  51. #851
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    I should probably run 150mm travel and use this trick to adjust travel when needed instead of opening it up to adjust spacers


    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Attach the pump until it pressurizes, push or pull fork into the preferred travel extension, check pressure, then disconnect. The fork will maintain that travel until the pump is reattached.

    Real important to check travel each time pressure is checked as it's super easy to get less extension because the fork will sag from the weight of the bike/gravity.

    To get full travel, you will need to pull down on the wheel when the pump is attached, then disconnet before releasing tension.

    I get 150mm full travel from my 150mm fork and 140mm full travel from my 140mm fork.

  52. #852
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    Quote Originally Posted by david.p View Post
    Another option might be the Salsa Cane Creek +3mm crown race Salsa had made to allow the Bluto to clear some of their frames.
    It needs 3mm to be safe and came creek +3mm race will not work with current headset as it has 36deg at bearing and pivot is 45deg

  53. #853
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    Mastodon

    Mastodon guidance... answer found
    Last edited by donkeykongchamp; 11-28-2017 at 04:50 AM. Reason: Found answer

  54. #854
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    Quote Originally Posted by JacekB View Post
    It needs 3mm to be safe and came creek +3mm race will not work with current headset as it has 36deg at bearing and pivot is 45deg
    Just pop out the factory black cup and get a Cane Creek ZS56 lower cup and bearing or just get a Cane Creek lower bearing. It has a slightly bigger OD, but on my factory Pivot cup I was able to get it in and out. I'm guessing that tolerances on the cup may not be that precise since it rides on the angle.

  55. #855
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    One thing that needs to be considered in all these DIY clearance checks is the bump stop is not being compressed fully. I don't have mine yet but it looks like its about 20mm uncompressed which means it will be about 10mm fully compressed. So whatever 50% of the actual bump stop height is should be subtracted from static clearance checks.

    I am referring to tread to crown clearance to be clear.
    Last edited by rcracer2; 11-15-2017 at 10:39 AM.

  56. #856
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcracer2 View Post
    One thing that needs to be considered in all these DIY clearance checks is the bump stop is not being compressed fully. I don't have mine yet but it looks like its about 20mm uncompressed which means it will be about 10mm fully compressed. So whatever 50% of the actual bump stop height is should be subtracted from static clearance checks.
    Good point!! Going to double check clearance for sure. That being said if I hit hard enough to fully compress the bump stop I'm pretty sure I'm going to eat sh!t anyways 🤔

  57. #857
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    What has to be done to convert a pro extended to a pro standard? there seems to be a lot of the pro 120 extended(27.5) out there but not many of the pro 120mm 26 inch forks. I have a Bucksaw and I do not want to put a 550mm for on it when I can get a 531mm one......note: seems the 27.5 forks are cheaper.
    The bike is never to heavy, you are just to WEAK!

  58. #858
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    Not worth the cost and effort, parts will run $75-100, special order from a Manitou certified repair center.

    Quote Originally Posted by MUSTCLIME View Post
    What has to be done to convert a pro extended to a pro standard? there seems to be a lot of the pro 120 extended(27.5) out there but not many of the pro 120mm 26 inch forks. I have a Bucksaw and I do not want to put a 550mm for on it when I can get a 531mm one......note: seems the 27.5 forks are cheaper.

  59. #859
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    That extra 19mm will cause you to wheelie out of control...

    Just lower your sag by 19mm, or reduce the travel, or.....

  60. #860
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    Quote Originally Posted by KTMNealio View Post
    That extra 19mm will cause you to wheelie out of control...

    Just lower your sag by 19mm, or reduce the travel, or.....
    The fork is for a Bucksaw, Salsa says you shouldnít put any fork on the bike longer 511mmís. I am Not comfortable putting a 551mm fork on the bike frame designed for 511mm. I figured I could add sag to a 531mm fork to get it closer to the 511mm max for the frame.

  61. #861
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    Any of you guys that is feeling play in he fork? I have play that is felt as play between inner and outer stanchions. I have tested these when stand still, and tire against the wall?

    It is felt more with more air pressure and more compression damping....

  62. #862
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    Quote Originally Posted by MUSTCLIME View Post
    The fork is for a Bucksaw, Salsa says you shouldnít put any fork on the bike longer 511mmís. I am Not comfortable putting a 551mm fork on the bike frame designed for 511mm. I figured I could add sag to a 531mm fork to get it closer to the 511mm max for the frame.
    You don't need to sag it, hook the shock pump up, compress fork to desired level, and remove pump. It equalizes the pressure between the pos and neg chambers and holds it there.

  63. #863
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rumblefish2010 View Post
    Any of you guys that is feeling play in he fork? I have play that is felt as play between inner and outer stanchions. I have tested these when stand still, and tire against the wall?

    It is felt more with more air pressure and more compression damping....
    Bushings should have ~0.1mm clearance each. Enough to just feel with your fingers when rocking the fork, but not enough to notice while riding.

    Tight bushings mean no tolerance for axle clamping and no place for the oil film. Both result in a sticky fork that doesn't like to slide.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  64. #864
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Bushings should have ~0.1mm clearance each. Enough to just feel with your fingers when rocking the fork, but not enough to notice while riding.

    Tight bushings mean no tolerance for axle clamping and no place for the oil film. Both result in a sticky fork that doesn't like to slide.
    Okay, but it should not be the loose sensation, almost like when you have loose head tube bearings?
    Could something come loose inside the fork, giving these sensation? Or could it be some kind of wrong balance in positive negative chamber air filling, not right balanced, making these sensation?

  65. #865
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rumblefish2010 View Post
    Okay, but it should not be the loose sensation, almost like when you have loose head tube bearings?
    Could something come loose inside the fork, giving these sensation? Or could it be some kind of wrong balance in positive negative chamber air filling, not right balanced, making these sensation?
    I couldn't tell you without feeling the fork myself. But first things to check are axle, brake and headset.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  66. #866
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    I couldn't tell you without feeling the fork myself. But first things to check are axle, brake and headset.
    Checked all, nothing else to adress the loose sensation. It is felt in the first millimeters of the stroke. When riding hard it is felt most when using compression damping and less without. Really annoying when I was replacing my Wren fork to exactly get rid of this. Still struggling with getting plush ride, since when using enough air pressure to prevent bottom out, it rides to firm. To soft it needs more compression damping and it feels loose. IRT helps but gives not enough bottom out resistance, until I get so much pressure that the fork gets to firm. Using 90psi in the fork now. I am 250-260lbs in winter clothes. Have been riding a super plush fork, a Fox 36 with MRP ramp control, from spring until autumn.Maybe I am spoiled, and have to high expectations?

  67. #867
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rumblefish2010 View Post
    Checked all, nothing else to adress the loose sensation. It is felt in the first millimeters of the stroke. When riding hard it is felt most when using compression damping and less without. Really annoying when I was replacing my Wren fork to exactly get rid of this. Still struggling with getting plush ride, since when using enough air pressure to prevent bottom out, it rides to firm. To soft it needs more compression damping and it feels loose. IRT helps but gives not enough bottom out resistance, until I get so much pressure that the fork gets to firm. Using 90psi in the fork now. I am 250-260lbs in winter clothes. Have been riding a super plush fork, a Fox 36 with MRP ramp control, from spring until autumn.Maybe I am spoiled, and have to high expectations?
    That doesn't sound like bushings. That sounds like something in the damper loose. Send it in for warranty.

    Your expectations aren't too high. You should expect this fork to outperform everything else.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  68. #868
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    For some reason (comp) I need to run more psi than most others are running, at 180 geared up I'm at about 100psi at 130mm travel with 20% sag?

  69. #869
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    My first fork had a rattling/clunking that seemed related to compression, but after I got my new upper assembly and had the fork completely torn down and put back together it went away.
    So I concur with Dougal.

  70. #870
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    Mine are all tight, three Mastodons to date, theyíre all solid, all feel the same. The two STD forks I adjusted travel, the EXT was stick 120mm.

    Are you sure you have the axle and headset tight? Try adding a thin spacer on your headset.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rumblefish2010 View Post
    Any of you guys that is feeling play in he fork? I have play that is felt as play between inner and outer stanchions. I have tested these when stand still, and tire against the wall?

    It is felt more with more air pressure and more compression damping....

  71. #871
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    No idea why the Comp would need more air pressure, maybe the comp is different than the pro...

    On a Pro I run 50-60psi depending on air temps.

    As long as it works, no bother.

    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    For some reason (comp) I need to run more psi than most others are running, at 180 geared up I'm at about 100psi at 130mm travel with 20% sag?
    Last edited by Nurse Ben; 11-20-2017 at 08:05 AM.

  72. #872
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    I'm running 65-70psi to get 25% sag on a Comp @ 160lbs.

  73. #873
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    Hmmmmmm..........

  74. #874
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    Quote Originally Posted by KTMNealio View Post
    My first fork had a rattling/clunking that seemed related to compression, but after I got my new upper assembly and had the fork completely torn down and put back together it went away.
    So I concur with Dougal.
    okay, so the rattling was inside the compression side? Did you tear down and put together yourself? Maybe it is a good idea to do it through a service workshop?

  75. #875
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rumblefish2010 View Post
    okay, so the rattling was inside the compression side? Did you tear down and put together yourself? Maybe it is a good idea to do it through a service workshop?
    I took it too a certified Manitou mechanic.
    I couldn't tell where the noise was coming from, just that on very small bumps it would clunk. Same if I compressed it slightly and released it. It was like the compression/rebound rod was loose.

  76. #876
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    Quote Originally Posted by KTMNealio View Post
    I took it too a certified Manitou mechanic.
    I couldn't tell where the noise was coming from, just that on very small bumps it would clunk. Same if I compressed it slightly and released it. It was like the compression/rebound rod was loose.
    Ask them to check the rebound check shim. This is a shim on the underside of the rebound piston (on the end of the damper shaft) which has a spring behind it. If the spring or shim gets out of place the shim can knock shut instead of closing smoothly.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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    Dougal - I sent you a PM if you get a moment to check

  78. #878
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    Yeah mine clunks/ticks (comp) when its anywhere but in the wide open position. Any threshold applied at all and tick tick tick all day long.

  79. #879
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    I realize that not everyone wants or has the dollars to throw at their bike, but I've had great success with the Pro.

    Like Dougal said, it's one of the best forks designs out there. We are so lucky to have Manitou on our team

    So Bob, other than the noise, how does it ride? Do you like the Wozo? Have you tried a longer travel, 130-140?

    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Yeah mine clunks/ticks (comp) when its anywhere but in the wide open position. Any threshold applied at all and tick tick tick all day long.

  80. #880
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    I realize that not everyone wants or has the dollars to throw at their bike, but I've had great success with the Pro.

    Like Dougal said, it's one of the best forks designs out there. We are so lucky to have Manitou on our team

    So Bob, other than the noise, how does it ride? Do you like the Wozo? Have you tried a longer travel, 130-140?
    Yeah so far it's been great!! I started at 120 and slowly bumped it up to 140 as I got use to the stack height running it with a -1 deg headset as well. I'm coming off of a neck injury so haven't pushed it real hard yet but it is showing promise.

    I was thinking about upgrading the damper to the pro model but not sure if it's worth it or not? What is the price on just the damper?? Too be honest the fork was an impulse buy and I thought the weight was the only difference only to find out the damper is different as well.

    Most of my summer riding with it will be park riding (jump lines) so I'm not sure how much the upgraded damper will help? I pretty much run my forks very stiff and not worry about small bumps too much.

    Edit: I'm going to bring the bike inside and let the oil warm up to see if that helps the clicking.

  81. #881
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    At 140mm travel you got 66deg HTA, might as well pull the angleset, reduce stack by 10mm, still got 67deg HTA, thatís how I run mine. Itís a nice compromise that way, you can drop it to 120mm and 68deg HTA for snow/XC if you like faster response.

    Howís Asheville treating you?

    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Yeah so far it's been great!! I started at 120 and slowly bumped it up to 140 as I got use to the stack height running it with a -1 deg headset as well. I'm coming off of a neck injury so haven't pushed it real hard yet but it is showing promise.

    I was thinking about upgrading the damper to the pro model but not sure if it's worth it or not? What is the price on just the damper?? Too be honest the fork was an impulse buy and I thought the weight was the only difference only to find out the damper is different as well.

    Most of my summer riding with it will be park riding (jump lines) so I'm not sure how much the upgraded damper will help? I pretty much run my forks very stiff and not worry about small bumps too much.

    Edit: I'm going to bring the bike inside and let the oil warm up to see if that helps the clicking.

  82. #882
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    I'm just about ready to change my Comp to 140mm. After going over the manuals and instruction video I've come up with the following procedure:

    References:
    Mastodon service manual: https://www.manitoumtb.com/wp-conten...vice-Guide.pdf
    Mastodon travel adjust manual: https://www.manitoumtb.com/wp-conten...ange-Guide.pdf
    Mattoc travel change video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PtIW79qN00

    -Remove lowers/casting (service manual pg9 steps 1-5)
    -Optional: IVA spring rate adjustment (service manual pg12 steps 1-3) and adjust spring rate spacers
    -Remove air spring (service manual pg13 steps 4-5)
    -Adjust air spring spacers (spacer guide pg9); remove 2 top-out spacers
    -Re-install air spring (service manual pg 14 steps 7-12)
    -Optional: Remove compression damper and change damper oil to 2.5wt for cold weather performance
    -Re-install lowers/casting (service manual pg 31 steps 1-7)
    -Clean fork and set to riding pressure

    Edit: Went through this and changing travel was straightforward. Removed steps indicating it should be possible to put bumpers taken from air shaft onto bottom of rebound shaft because the shafts have different diameters on the Comp.
    Last edited by david.p; 06-08-2018 at 02:01 PM.

  83. #883
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Yeah mine clunks/ticks (comp) when its anywhere but in the wide open position. Any threshold applied at all and tick tick tick all day long.
    I never reduce damping, so no idea what it sounds like, I suspect the noise youíre hearing is the damper controlling oil flow.

  84. #884
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    I changed my fork from 120mm to 140mm using the procedure I posted above. Changing travel was straightforward but I'd hoped that I'd also be able to increase clearance by 10mm by moving the two top-out spacers taken from the air shaft to the bottom of the air and rebound shafts (one on each). This doesn't work because the two shafts have different diameters.

    Unfortunately the travel change guide specifies that both shafts need the same number of bottom-out spacers and gives the part number for the air shaft but not for the rebound shaft. I guess I'll need to contact Manitou to get the bottom-out spacer for the rebound side.

  85. #885
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    Quote Originally Posted by david.p View Post
    I changed my fork from 120mm to 140mm using the procedure I posted above. Changing travel was straightforward but I'd hoped that I'd also be able to increase clearance by 10mm by moving the two top-out spacers taken from the air shaft to the bottom of the air and rebound shafts (one on each). This doesn't work because the two shafts have different diameters.

    Unfortunately the travel change guide specifies that both shafts need the same number of bottom-out spacers and gives the part number for the air shaft but not for the rebound shaft. I guess I'll need to contact Manitou to get the bottom-out spacer for the rebound side.
    Dougal seems to have a lot of insight with this fork and he told me specifically that all the spacers were the same. I hope they are because I am doing this same thing as you tomorrow evening on my new Mastodon. In speaking with Dougal, I was referencing the Pro model, is yours the Comp? I am not sure if it is the same rebound damper for both.

  86. #886
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    Sorry, should have specified that I'm on the Comp. The rebound dampers do have different part #s for Pro and Comp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by david.p View Post
    Sorry, should have specified that I'm on the Comp. The rebound dampers do have different part #s for Pro and Comp.
    The difference is about a mm. You can file or dremel the spacer to fit in 2 seconds.
    The Pro uses the same spacers on each side
    Last edited by the mayor; 11-27-2017 at 07:34 AM.

  88. #888
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpd131 View Post
    Dougal seems to have a lot of insight with this fork and he told me specifically that all the spacers were the same. I hope they are because I am doing this same thing as you tomorrow evening on my new Mastodon. In speaking with Dougal, I was referencing the Pro model, is yours the Comp? I am not sure if it is the same rebound damper for both.
    Yeah Pro models are 10mm both sides. Comp uses a 12.7mm (1/2") damper shaft.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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    Mastodon Pro STD with Pivot Les Fat Frame and Chupacabra 29+

    OK, so I got my Manitou Mastodon Pro STD 120. I installed it on a Pivot Les Fat size Medium frame. I don't use the standard or the extended lower cup headset, I use a Cane Creek ZS56 lower bearing set. I mention the headset because it is a very close clearance for crown to down tube and different headsets may have different fitment issues. The Mastodon air side clear easily. The damper side may have issues. The red low speed adjuster clears in any position, but at it's tightest point with red tang pointing out to the side, I get about 1-2mm of clearance. The black high speed adjuster, when one of the four ends is pointing straight out, will hit the downtube. However, if they are pointed at the 45 degree angle (or the 1:30 and 4:30 positions) it also clears the frame with about 1mm. I might carefully grind and blend down the ends to have clearance all the time just to be on the safe side. I think the right thing to do is install the Salsa Cane Creek 3mm extended race, that will provide ample clearance. I am unsure if I will do the right thing.

    I do realize that with frame or fork flex and the minimal clearance, there could be contact. However, those circumstances with the wheel turned exactly 90 degrees to the right so the crown damper side is under the down tube and the force needed to flex the frame and fork in order to have contact, it will be almost unheard of. If this does happen, think of the catastrophic event that is taking place anyway.

    Now on to tire clearance, obviously the 26X4.6 Ground Controls fit easily. I also have Chupacabra 29X3.0 mounted on 45mm ID rims. The tires are a year old and have had the time to stretch. I mounted this wheel/tire combo and let out all the air in the fork. I hold down the fork until it hits the rubber bottom out bumper and there is about 4-5mm of clearance between the crown and the tire. The rubber bumper can compress, even while in the stand, enough to take away half that clearance. I think with a full force bottom out it may touch the tire, or it will be real close. I think the right thing to do is install a spacer on the bottom of both the air spring and the rebound damper. I wish they made a 5mm spacer, because I would prefer not to use the full 10mm.

    If anyone knows of a 5mm Manitou spacer, please post it or send a PM.

    Now to finish the swap and get out on the trail with it.

  90. #890
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    You can probably make a 5mm spacer by cutting a 10mm in half, but with that much clearance and all the factors that would have to come together for contact, you're really at low risk; you'd probably be crashing at that moment anyhow

    For the frame-fork interference, I'd get the thicker race.

    How does it ride? Are you going to bump the travel?

    Quote Originally Posted by bpd131 View Post
    OK, so I got my Manitou Mastodon Pro STD 120. I installed it on a Pivot Les Fat size Medium frame. I don't use the standard or the extended lower cup headset, I use a Cane Creek ZS56 lower bearing set. I mention the headset because it is a very close clearance for crown to down tube and different headsets may have different fitment issues. The Mastodon air side clear easily. The damper side may have issues. The red low speed adjuster clears in any position, but at it's tightest point with red tang pointing out to the side, I get about 1-2mm of clearance. The black high speed adjuster, when one of the four ends is pointing straight out, will hit the downtube. However, if they are pointed at the 45 degree angle (or the 1:30 and 4:30 positions) it also clears the frame with about 1mm. I might carefully grind and blend down the ends to have clearance all the time just to be on the safe side. I think the right thing to do is install the Salsa Cane Creek 3mm extended race, that will provide ample clearance. I am unsure if I will do the right thing.

    I do realize that with frame or fork flex and the minimal clearance, there could be contact. However, those circumstances with the wheel turned exactly 90 degrees to the right so the crown damper side is under the down tube and the force needed to flex the frame and fork in order to have contact, it will be almost unheard of. If this does happen, think of the catastrophic event that is taking place anyway.

    Now on to tire clearance, obviously the 26X4.6 Ground Controls fit easily. I also have Chupacabra 29X3.0 mounted on 45mm ID rims. The tires are a year old and have had the time to stretch. I mounted this wheel/tire combo and let out all the air in the fork. I hold down the fork until it hits the rubber bottom out bumper and there is about 4-5mm of clearance between the crown and the tire. The rubber bumper can compress, even while in the stand, enough to take away half that clearance. I think with a full force bottom out it may touch the tire, or it will be real close. I think the right thing to do is install a spacer on the bottom of both the air spring and the rebound damper. I wish they made a 5mm spacer, because I would prefer not to use the full 10mm.

    If anyone knows of a 5mm Manitou spacer, please post it or send a PM.

    Now to finish the swap and get out on the trail with it.

  91. #891
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    You can probably make a 5mm spacer by cutting a 10mm in half, but with that much clearance and all the factors that would have to come together for contact, you're really at low risk; you'd probably be crashing at that moment anyhow

    For the frame-fork interference, I'd get the thicker race.

    How does it ride? Are you going to bump the travel?
    I actually have the thicker race, just not sure I will use it.

    As far as tire clearance, I may put a few layers of duct tape under the crown and see if it rubs, and make a determination from there.

    But I am waiting on a brake adapter, so I am hoping to have it ready to ride this weekend. If not, it will be another week. I do have high hopes for the performance.

  92. #892
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    With the Barbe 4.5 I have just a few millimeters of clearance, so in theory I could, under hard riding, compress the bottom out damper at the same time the tire could be "stretched" vertically, leading to contact with the steerer... but is that really going to happpen?

    Nah

    More likely is I pick up a bunch of mud, hit a compression, and have enough impact to throw me over the bars so I do a fact plant in a puddle.

    Yup, that's how it's gonna go

    Running 140mm of travel makes it less likely.

    Quote Originally Posted by bpd131 View Post
    I actually have the thicker race, just not sure I will use it.

    As far as tire clearance, I may put a few layers of duct tape under the crown and see if it rubs, and make a determination from there.

    But I am waiting on a brake adapter, so I am hoping to have it ready to ride this weekend. If not, it will be another week. I do have high hopes for the performance.

  93. #893
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Running 140mm of travel makes it less likely.
    Especially if you leave the IVA spacers at the 120mm spring rate setting.

  94. #894
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Yeah Pro models are 10mm both sides. Comp uses a 12.7mm (1/2") damper shaft.
    I'm about to attempt setting my STD Comp up to 140mm. Do I understand it correctly that it is NOT necessary to make any adjustments to the damper side, only remove 2x 10mm spacers from the air spring side? Thanks, R-

  95. #895
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvercoe View Post
    I'm about to attempt setting my STD Comp up to 140mm. Do I understand it correctly that it is NOT necessary to make any adjustments to the damper side, only remove 2x 10mm spacers from the air spring side? Thanks, R-
    Fork extension is controlled by air side only. The bottom-out bumpers on the Mastodon are on both sides because the fork is so wide.
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  96. #896
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    Hey Dougal,

    I'm doing a budget build Wozo for my 21yo son, using parts out of my bin, some new stuff, got a decent deal ($532) on a Mastodon STD Comp 120mm that is currently backordered.

    Is there any reason; other than saving $175, that I shouldn't get a Comp?

    A Pro would run $700.

  97. #897
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Hey Dougal,

    I'm doing a budget build Wozo for my 21yo son, using parts out of my bin, some new stuff, got a decent deal ($532) on a Mastodon STD Comp 120mm that is currently backordered.

    Is there any reason; other than saving $175, that I shouldn't get a Comp?

    A Pro would run $700.
    I was thinking how well your son is doing, having his Dad buy and build bikes for him at 21!

    Pro is lighter and has a more adjustable damper.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  98. #898
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Fork extension is controlled by air side only. The bottom-out bumpers on the Mastodon are on both sides because the fork is so wide.
    Sorry, I am a newby at doing my own suspension fork work. Sooo, Is that a Yes or a No that I need to mess with the damper side when bumping the STD Comp from 120mm up to 140mm? Thanks Sir.

  99. #899
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvercoe View Post
    Sorry, I am a newby at doing my own suspension fork work. Sooo, Is that a Yes or a No that I need to mess with the damper side when bumping the STD Comp from 120mm up to 140mm? Thanks Sir.
    For adjusting travel with with the top set of spacers, no.

    Only for adjusting ride height/tire clearance issues using the bottom tokens on the bottom of the damper/air spring. Which is something that NOT specified in manuals.

  100. #900
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    It's really all about me, cuz when he's riding then I have a biking buddy.

    Also, he's s a good kid, working and doing college, he even listens to me sometimes

    Yeah, ghetto build Wozo with a Mastodon Comp and my left overs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    I was thinking how well your son is doing, having his Dad buy and build bikes for him at 21!

    Pro is lighter and has a more adjustable damper.

  101. #901
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvercoe View Post
    Sorry, I am a newby at doing my own suspension fork work. Sooo, Is that a Yes or a No that I need to mess with the damper side when bumping the STD Comp from 120mm up to 140mm? Thanks Sir.
    Step by step instructions for changing travel on the Comp in this post

  102. #902
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    It's really all about me, cuz when he's riding then I have a biking buddy.
    Yep. My kids ride tuesday nights whether they like it or not.

    Prying them away from electronics after school can be hell but 10 min into the ride they are all-in. Of course ice cream or donuts and coco afterwards don't hurt.

  103. #903
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    Totally, I bribed my kids with coca cola, reduced chores, their choice of dinner, whatever it took. I started riding muni with my son when he was a pre-teen, we rode weekly through high school, it was a once in a lifetime experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by bme107 View Post
    Yep. My kids ride tuesday nights whether they like it or not.

    Prying them away from electronics after school can be hell but 10 min into the ride they are all-in. Of course ice cream or donuts and coco afterwards don't hurt.

  104. #904
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    Quote Originally Posted by david.p View Post
    Step by step instructions for changing travel on the Comp in this post
    Yes, That post is super helpful as the best step by step description of the process with all the necessary sources linked. Thanks for posting that up.

    My only question came from your edit at the end of that post= "Edit: Went through this and changing travel was straightforward. Removed steps indicating it should be possible to put bumpers taken from air shaft onto bottom of rebound shaft because the shafts have different diameters on the Comp."

    There seemed to have been a bit of conflicting opinions as to whether it really IS or is NOT necessary to add some spacers on the damper side to support the additional travel on the air spring side once it is bumped up to 140mm. Cheers, Richard

  105. #905
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    Gotcha.

    For just changing travel from 120mm to 140mm, no - nothing is needed on the rebound side. Essentially all that is done is removal of two spacers from the top of the air shaft.

    Originally that post had included optional steps for increasing crown clearance by adding bottom out spacers, which are needed on both sides, in addition to increasing the travel. The assumption was that since I was removing two spacers from the top of the air side (this is the part that increases the travel from 120mm to 140mm), I could move the spacers to the bottom of each shaft to add aditional crown clearance (but this also reduces travel by 10mm so net travel would be 130mm).

    It was this second part that didn't work out so I removed those steps from the procedure. The procedure is still complete for changing the travel.

  106. #906
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    Glad that's over, rvercoe you've been officially told at least 3 times now you don't mess with the damper side for travel change . There has never been conflicting reports on the damper side as that is for limiting travel/crown clearance only and then you still don't need to remove the rebound damper for that adjustment.

  107. #907
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Glad that's over, rvercoe you've been officially told at least 3 times now you don't mess with the damper side for travel change . There has never been conflicting reports on the damper side as that is for limiting travel/crown clearance only and then you still don't need to remove the rebound damper for that adjustment.
    So...you're saying I have to remove the steerer from the crown and remove the rebound damper to adjust the air pressure?
    Got it!

  108. #908
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    Quote Originally Posted by the mayor View Post
    So...you're saying I have to remove the steerer from the crown and remove the rebound damper to adjust the air pressure?
    Got it!

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    Cheers, y'all are an informative and supportive group. Much obliged, R-

  110. #910
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    Reading the discussion above, it seems that 1) the standard version has room for 4.8" tires and 2) if I wanted to increase tire clearance I would move travel adjust spacer(s). Did I get that right? Trying to decide if I should go with the 100mm extended or the 120mm standard version...

  111. #911
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    Yes, that's right. Additionally the 120mm can be extended to 140mm while the 100mm can be lowered to 80mm.

  112. #912
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    Quote Originally Posted by david.p View Post
    Yes, that's right. Additionally the 120mm can be extended to 140mm while the 100mm can be lowered to 80mm.
    Got it. Thanks!

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

  113. #913
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    I've seen a lot of talk on this thread about the +3mm lower race for Medium Les Fat, but is anyone actually using it? I'm currently running the the OEM rigid for with +18mm lower cup and 26X4.8 JJ's. I want to install Mastodon 120 Pro STD and thinking the additional A to C would warrant going back to Zero stack lower cup.

    What all do I need to run the +3mm race?

    Thanks
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  114. #914
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shamis View Post
    I've seen a lot of talk on this thread about the +3mm lower race for Medium Les Fat, but is anyone actually using it? I'm currently running the the OEM rigid for with +18mm lower cup and 26X4.8 JJ's. I want to install Mastodon 120 Pro STD and thinking the additional A to C would warrant going back to Zero stack lower cup.

    What all do I need to run the +3mm race?

    Thanks
    You absolutely do NOT need the +3 for the Les Fat when using the +18 cup. I currently have mine set up with a zero stack and NOT using +3, it just barely clears with knobs facing a certain way. Adding the +3 would make clear no matter which way knobs face.

    Using the +3 race would require using a Cane Creek lower bearing or ZS56 lower set.

  115. #915
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    Thanks, I would not be using the 18mm if I run the 120 fork, so I would switch back to zero stack.

    i read back a little and see that you are running the Cane Creek 110 ZS56 which has a 4mm stack so may not be equal to my set up if I use OEM zero stack, anyway.
    Last edited by Shamis; 12-02-2017 at 11:42 AM.
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  116. #916
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    Mastodon with LesFAT medium extra 3mm race. Limiting travel from 120mm to 110mm

    Quote Originally Posted by Shamis View Post
    Thanks, I would not be using the 18mm if I run the 120 fork, so I would switch back to zero stack.

    i read back a little and see that you are running the Cane Creek 110 ZS56 which has a 4mm stack so may not be equal to my set up if I use OEM zero stack, anyway.
    I have Medium frame LesFat. You need the extra 3 mm. It will clear the knobs when they are in specific position but you would not ride like that. The Mastodon has long part of the fork tube that is wider for the race so you could add machined 3mm aluminium spacer and everything is super solid. Ideally the Cane Creek solution with replaced bottom cup/bearing and the 3+ race. I had it with 18mm cup first but with zero stack cup the bike is better.

    I have another question with using 120 mm STD. Everyone is saying you can add spacer or two at the bottom and limit 120mm to 110mm or 100mm even Manitou do not approve that settings. But maybe they do not because the 120mm is using different rebound damper and if you add two spacers at the bottom you may bottom out more often? But then maybe we could add axtra volume reducer to the air chamber. I aske them in email but not answer and I guess they will say it wasn't tested or not designed that way.

  117. #917
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    Can you explain why the second part of limiting the travel by 10mm did not work Please ?

    Everyone here is saying that is should. You would think you can limit the travel as long there is space for the extra tokens at the bottom. I think that maybe the rebound damper might not work in designed range as the the fork will never go to the max but I am not sure is that will change the performance. I think you may bottom out more often if you do not add air volume reducing tokens in the air chamber to make it more progressive.

    I think I just found the answer you gave before: "On Comp the top shaft and bottom have different diameters." What about PRO? I guess with PRO it will work.

  118. #918
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    Quote Originally Posted by the mayor View Post
    I plan on taking mine( 120 ext) apart again next week to play with travel.

    I also ordered a 120 STD but recieve another EXT
    Where did you buy yours. I ordered 120STD and did not pay attention when received buy after riding felt high so I measured AC and it is 551 and there is even a sticker EXT. Did you keep EXT or exchange for STD?

  119. #919
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shamis View Post
    Thanks, I would not be using the 18mm if I run the 120 fork, so I would switch back to zero stack.

    i read back a little and see that you are running the Cane Creek 110 ZS56 which has a 4mm stack so may not be equal to my set up if I use OEM zero stack, anyway.
    The race is a little thicker on the standard Cane Creek Race when compared to the OEM Les Fat. Stack height doesn't measure 4mm on my bike. but who am I to argue with Cane Creek. Regardless, to ensure there are no problems, you should use the 3mm extended race. With the 110 ZS56 and standard race, my knobs clear, but only in the detent positions. If the high speed, black, knob spins slightly (approx 45 degrees), and I turn the wheel 90 degrees (or so), there is contact with the downtube.

    I rode my Mastodon 120mm STD today for the first time today on my Medium Les Fat with Cane Creek 110 ZS56, standard race with 29X3.0 on 50mm rims at 14 PSI. No tire rub with crown and no downtube clearance issues. But I must state, it is not the proper way to do things. It's risky, but I don't mind testing things outside the norm.

  120. #920
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpd131 View Post
    The race is a little thicker on the standard Cane Creek Race when compared to the OEM Les Fat. Stack height doesn't measure 4mm on my bike. but who am I to argue with Cane Creek. Regardless, to ensure there are no problems, you should use the 3mm extended race. With the 110 ZS56 and standard race, my knobs clear, but only in the detent positions. If the high speed, black, knob spins slightly (approx 45 degrees), and I turn the wheel 90 degrees (or so), there is contact with the downtube.

    I rode my Mastodon 120mm STD today for the first time today on my Medium Les Fat with Cane Creek 110 ZS56, standard race with 29X3.0 on 50mm rims at 14 PSI. No tire rub with crown and no downtube clearance issues. But I must state, it is not the proper way to do things. It's risky, but I don't mind testing things outside the norm.
    Would you rather have EXT version?

  121. #921
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    Quote Originally Posted by JacekB View Post
    Would you rather have EXT version?
    Absolutely not. I did not want the extra A-C. This is why I am trying to do everything possible without adding unnecessary A-C. I actually enjoy this type of tinkering and figuring these things out. A semi-custom approach to get what I'm after using off the shelf parts, because I don't have the ability and time for custom fabrication.

  122. #922
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpd131 View Post
    Absolutely not. I did not want the extra A-C. This is why I am trying to do everything possible without adding unnecessary A-C. I actually enjoy this type of tinkering and figuring these things out. A semi-custom approach to get what I'm after using off the shelf parts, because I don't have the ability and time for custom fabrication.
    Did you try to install the 10mm spacers on the bottom to reduce travel and increase that way clearance? This is what I wanted to do buy I just realized that they send me EXT 120. I could have bought that much cheaper at that time and I bought 120STD. I realized that it is was wrong after installed it.

  123. #923
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    Quote Originally Posted by JacekB View Post
    Would you rather have EXT version?
    Also the EXT Version only addresses tire to crown clearance issues. It does nothing for the crown to downtube issues.

    With a little patience, creatvity and effort, I can solve any and all of the potential clearance issues, with 8mm total added to the A-C. Where the EXT version adds 20mm and still has crown clearance issues that would still add another 3mm with the Salsa Race.

    Now, I do realize that that the 20mm extra height on the EXT version can be reduced from 20mm to 10mm, therefore decreasing A-C by 10mm as well. Just another way to attack the problem.

  124. #924
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpd131 View Post
    Also the EXT Version only addresses tire to crown clearance issues. It does nothing for the crown to downtube issues.

    With a little patience, creatvity and effort, I can solve any and all of the potential clearance issues, with 8mm total added to the A-C. Where the EXT version adds 20mm and still has crown clearance issues that would still add another 3mm with the Salsa Race.

    Now, I do realize that that the 20mm extra height on the EXT version can be reduced from 20mm to 10mm, therefore decreasing A-C by 10mm as well. Just another way to attack the problem.
    By Adding Extra spacer at the top of the air shaft?

  125. #925
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    Quote Originally Posted by JacekB View Post
    Did you try to install the 10mm spacers on the bottom to reduce travel and increase that way clearance? This is what I wanted to do buy I just realized that they send me EXT 120. I could have bought that much cheaper at that time and I bought 120STD. I realized that it is was wrong after installed it.
    I could do this, but right now my STD version clears my 29x3.0 Chupa with a few mm to spare. I rode it this way yesterday and it did not rub. Therefore, I will not put the full 10mm spacer in there. I ride this bike rigid with fat tires, which will be going on soon, so this fork won't be on long. I will try to find or make a 5mm spacer over the winter and install that for the spring.

  126. #926
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpd131 View Post
    I could do this, but right now my STD version clears my 29x3.0 Chupa with a few mm to spare. I rode it this way yesterday and it did not rub. Therefore, I will not put the full 10mm spacer in there. I ride this bike rigid with fat tires, which will be going on soon, so this fork won't be on long. I will try to find or make a 5mm spacer over the winter and install that for the spring.
    Do you keep 18 mm cup installed or changing while going rigid? I changed to ZS Andrzej 120 ext is not so bad but I would prefer STD as I ordered.

  127. #927
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    Quote Originally Posted by JacekB View Post
    By Adding Extra spacer at the top of the air shaft?
    Yes, sort of, but that only adjusts the travel by itself. You would have to remove a spacer from the bottom as well. Removing one from the bottom and adding one to the top, you keep the same amount of travel, but decrease A-C by 10mm.

  128. #928
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    Quote Originally Posted by JacekB View Post
    Do you keep 18 mm cup installed or changing while going rigid? I changed to ZS Andrzej 120 ext is not so bad but I would prefer STD as I ordered.
    No, I ride with the steeper HTA for the winter.

  129. #929
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpd131 View Post
    Yes, sort of, but that only adjusts the travel by itself. You would have to remove a spacer from the bottom as well. Removing one from the bottom and adding one to the top, you keep the same amount of travel, but decrease A-C by 10mm.
    Are you sure you will not hit any internal parts when removing bottom spacer?

  130. #930
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpd131 View Post
    No, I ride with the steeper HTA for the winter.
    You have always ZS? No problems with low BB and pedals strikes?

  131. #931
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    Quote Originally Posted by JacekB View Post
    Are you sure you will not hit any internal parts when removing bottom spacer?
    I am sure of nothing, because I do not have the same fork as you. But by understanding how the system works, and knowing that all you are doing is adjusting where on the air shaft that the travel occurs, I don't think it would matter. Now if someone was to start removing numerous spacers from various spots, that will probably lead to a problem eventually.

  132. #932
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    Quote Originally Posted by JacekB View Post
    You have always ZS? No problems with low BB and pedals strikes?
    Nah. If you look at the Pivot Les Fat Geometry Website page, the ONLY geo shown using the 18mm cup is the 26x3.8. All other geo references use the zs cup. Not saying I couldn't use it, but it's not worth it to me or my time pressing in and out different cups twice a year.

    I ride NE with rocks and roots everywhere, so pedal strikes occur no almost matter what. Eventually you learn to navigate and turn your pedals appropriately.

    When you lose your focus like I did once, a pedal strike that sent me over the bars on to my head, you will be reminded quickly. It provided great laughter for my riding partner though, so there's that upside. Just wish it was on video.

  133. #933
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    My bike came with 18mm cup installed since they are spec'd with 26x3.8 tires. I almost immediately swapped for 26x4.8 JJ's and never removed the cup. Running rear as short as possible with minimal clearance. But I have to say, that I would have no interest in riding it with ZS as I would not want to steepen the HA. I think I'll be quite happy with ZS and 120mm STD for as it will gain a tad more slack overall, but with sag, it should be pretty close to my current HA.
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  134. #934
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    Received my Mastodon Pro 120 std yesterday. I have to say I'm somewhat disappointed. Out of the box there is a fair amount of stiction; much more than I'm used to seeing. Comparing this to an almost new Pike...well, no comparison...

    I'll take it for a spin in the next day or two and report back. It's not fully extending either, but that's usually an easy fix.

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  135. #935
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    Quote Originally Posted by compengr View Post
    Received my Mastodon Pro 120 std yesterday. I have to say I'm somewhat disappointed. Out of the box there is a fair amount of stiction; much more than I'm used to seeing. Comparing this to an almost new Pike...well, no comparison...

    I'll take it for a spin in the next day or two and report back. It's not fully extending either, but that's usually an easy fix.

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    There's stiction....because it's a tight new fork....like any fork.
    And it's probably not extending because you set your air pressure wrong

  136. #936
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    Quote Originally Posted by the mayor View Post
    There's stiction....because it's a tight new fork....like any fork.
    And it's probably not extending because you set your air pressure wrong
    I'll report back, but like I said, there is a lot of stiction. Much more than I'm used to seeing in a new fork.

    As far as airing up the fork, I followed the little instruction sheet that came with fork. Not much to do wrong there.

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  137. #937
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    Quote Originally Posted by compengr View Post
    As far as airing up the fork, I followed the little instruction sheet that came with fork. Not much to do wrong there.
    You'll want to make sure the fork is fully extended before disconnecting the pump - this fork can change length with a pump connected. Some are using this quirk as a way to lower travel / ride height on the fly.

  138. #938
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    Quote Originally Posted by compengr View Post
    As far as airing up the fork, I followed the little instruction sheet that came with fork. Not much to do wrong there.

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    Yet...you did.
    You might want to read this thread to and you see how the air chambers work and what you did wrong

  139. #939
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    Quote Originally Posted by the mayor View Post
    Yet...you did.
    You might want to read this thread to and you see how the air chambers work and what you did wrong
    Flipped the bike over. Adjusted the pressure. Pulled on the fork before disconnecting the pump. What did I miss?

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  140. #940
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    Try pulling and pushing the fork legs in and out, this will give you an idea of the available travel. A 120 STD will compress to zero and extend to 120. You need to hold the fork at the desired position as you disconnect the pump. No need to flip the bike upside down, I can do mine on the trail

    You might want to measure the maximum extension. If it only goes to 100mm, you got the wrong fork. A 120 STD should extend to 120mm.

    Stiction? No problems with any of mine, three so far, working on a fourth next week.

    Great forks, far better than a Pike (I got one, had a few), maybe your Mastodon needs so break in?

    Quote Originally Posted by compengr View Post
    Flipped the bike over. Adjusted the pressure. Pulled on the fork before disconnecting the pump. What did I miss?

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  141. #941
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    Just installed the new Mastodon Std 120 Pro on my Wozo in place of my Fox 34.

    Haven't done any adjustments yet, but there is a pronounced top-out klunk whether the lockout is on or off. Has anyone else experienced this, and is there anything I can do to alleviate the problem?

    Scanned the threads but did not find any suggestions. Thanks!

  142. #942
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    Whenever I bottom out, that's generally a sign that I have the pressure set too low.

    Quote Originally Posted by PCT View Post
    Just installed the new Mastodon Std 120 Pro on my Wozo in place of my Fox 34.

    Haven't done any adjustments yet, but there is a pronounced top-out klunk whether the lockout is on or off. Has anyone else experienced this, and is there anything I can do to alleviate the problem?

    Scanned the threads but did not find any suggestions. Thanks!

  143. #943
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    Not bottom-out, plenty of pressure and not coming close to that. Top-out, as in when you compress the fork and let it rebound to the top, and it makes a Klunk sound.

  144. #944
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCT View Post
    Just installed the new Mastodon Std 120 Pro on my Wozo in place of my Fox 34.

    Haven't done any adjustments yet, but there is a pronounced top-out klunk whether the lockout is on or off. Has anyone else experienced this, and is there anything I can do to alleviate the problem?

    Scanned the threads but did not find any suggestions. Thanks!
    Decided to tinker a bit tonight. After going for a quick spin I was able to finally extend the fork to full travel. Not sure what changed. Gave it another try and it extended without rebounding back. So that part seems to be working fine.

    As far as top-out noises; even with rebound set to fastest I get nothing but a dull thud of the top out bumper doing its thing. Same exact fork.

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  145. #945
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    Quote Originally Posted by compengr View Post

    As far as top-out noises; even with rebound set to fastest I get nothing but a dull thud of the top out bumper doing its thing. Same exact fork.

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    Wouldn't you want it set on slowest to cushion the top out effect and soften the return?
    Working to stomp out redundancy, I repeat, working to stomp out redundancy.

  146. #946
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Mega View Post
    Wouldn't you want it set on slowest to cushion the top out effect and soften the return?
    The setting itself is a different topic (and a bit of a personal preference). The point I was trying to make was, even at the fastest return speed I didn't experience a clunk.

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  147. #947
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    Quote Originally Posted by compengr View Post
    The setting itself is a different topic (and a bit of a personal preference). The point I was trying to make was, even at the fastest return speed I didn't experience a clunk.

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    Gotcha. We're saying the same thing - I misread your comment. For other poster - PCT: see if slowest rebound changes anything. Still clunk?

    Edit: Another thing to check - HS tightness. When I first installed mine, I had a bit of clunk that I was sort of writing off as being the fork. Happened during manuals and hefting the front end. My HS from all the normal checks was tight. However, I decided to give that HS just a bit more of a turn and it all went away. Didn't process on it very much but sort of thought that maybe the big, heavy front wheel/tire carried a lot of momentum (when returning) and made a just ever so slightly loose HS move enough to make a top out feeling.
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  148. #948
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    Quote Originally Posted by compengr View Post
    Decided to tinker a bit tonight. After going for a quick spin I was able to finally extend the fork to full travel. Not sure what changed. Gave it another try and it extended without rebounding back. So that part seems to be working fine.

    As far as top-out noises; even with rebound set to fastest I get nothing but a dull thud of the top out bumper doing its thing. Same exact fork.

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    Have you checked to see if the lower bearing race settled in? May just have to tighten up the stack. Happened to me. after 2 rides.

  149. #949
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaster182 View Post
    Have you checked to see if the lower bearing race settled in? May just have to tighten up the stack. Happened to me. after 2 rides.
    I think you comment was meant for PCT. It could certainly be something other than the fork. I had a loose axle feel like a top-out issue once. Best to check all the obvious stuff first before diving into the fork.

  150. #950
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    Anyone tried installing the IRT upgrade in the Mastodon?

  151. #951
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    Quote Originally Posted by compengr View Post
    I think you comment was meant for PCT. It could certainly be something other than the fork. I had a loose axle feel like a top-out issue once. Best to check all the obvious stuff first before diving into the fork.
    Sometimes we overlook the simple stuff.

  152. #952
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    IRT Upgrade

    Quote Originally Posted by HDTVdevil View Post
    Anyone tried installing the IRT upgrade in the Mastodon?
    I've got one but not had time to install it yet.....watch this space!

  153. #953
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    Quote Originally Posted by compengr View Post
    Received my Mastodon Pro 120 std yesterday. I have to say I'm somewhat disappointed. Out of the box there is a fair amount of stiction; much more than I'm used to seeing. Comparing this to an almost new Pike...well, no comparison...

    I'll take it for a spin in the next day or two and report back. It's not fully extending either, but that's usually an easy fix.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
    Mine had a lot of stiction as well, thought I made a mistake in buying. After 30 miles of use, the fork is amazing, just take some miles to break in. Just like the old Marz forks. IMO, this is how a fork should come, if there is no stiction to start then when it breaks in you will have slop or need more service intervals.

  154. #954
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    My Mastodon PRO STD showed up yesterday. Because this thread is so long and confusing I am hoping to verify that I have the spacer set up correct.

    I am looking to set it up with 140mm travel minus 10 to safely account for large tires. This will leave me with 130mm travel with minimal impact to current handling characteristics and balance travel with my rear suspension.

    My belief is that I should have 1 top out spacer for 140mm travel and 2 bottom out spacers to increase the axle to crown length. Is that correct?

    Thanks



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  155. #955
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stu Pidassle View Post
    I am looking to set it up with 140mm travel minus 10 to safely account for large tires. This will leave me with 130mm travel with minimal impact to current handling characteristics and balance travel with my rear suspension.

    My belief is that I should have 1 top out spacer for 140mm travel and 2 bottom out spacers to increase the axle to crown length. Is that correct?
    Yes, that spacer config will get you 140mm - 10mm = 130mm net travel and 10mm additional crown clearance.

    The one clarification I would make has to do with this statement:

    This will leave me with 130mm travel with minimal impact to current handling characteristics...
    The ride height in the 140mm - 10mm configuration is the same as the ride height in the 140mm configuration; adding bottom out spacers reduces available travel without lowering the fork so A-C for the unsagged fork is still 551mm.

    I don't think this will change your plans but if you were expecting the 140mm - 10mm config to handle any differently than the 140mm config, it won't.

  156. #956
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    Quote Originally Posted by david.p View Post
    Yes, that spacer config will get you 140mm - 10mm = 130mm net travel and 10mm additional crown clearance.

    The one clarification I would make has to do with this statement:



    The ride height in the 140mm - 10mm configuration is the same as the ride height in the 140mm configuration; adding bottom out spacers reduces available travel without lowering the fork so A-C for the unsagged fork is still 551mm.

    I don't think this will change your plans but if you were expecting the 140mm - 10mm config to handle any differently than the 140mm config, it won't.
    Thank you. My statement about impacting handling was specific to running the STD vs. EXT version of the fork. I also plan on cutting the steerer tube to eliminate the number of headset spacers vs. the bluto keep my handle bars in roughly the same place. My current setup has 2+ inches of spacers.

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  157. #957
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    A quick update. I have a handful of rides on the fork and it is indeed breaking in. There is still a small amount of stiction at room temperature, but i only notice it when working on the bike. Nothing when riding. Another thing I noticed is it's completely stiction free when out in the cold. Don't know if that's by design (could very well be). Either way, I'm happy.

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  158. #958
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    Building up my old Wozo for my son, outfitted with a Mastodon Comp STD 120mm.

    Bumped the travel to 140mm, easy peazy, same process as the Pro.

    After having done this a few times, it takes me no more than twenty minutes with the fork off the bike.

    Then yesterday afternoon I took out my Wozo and did an extended ride in the hills behind our new house, dirt roads that lead out and way out, ended up taking the shortcut back, basically a mountain side of baby head lava boulders, some serious risk for self harm, and it was child's play

    Big tires and big suspension are made for that kind of stuff, but next time I'm taking the Barbes!

    I rode down that slope from the top and I didn't even land on my head once!

    Manitou Mastodon?-goni-1a.jpg

    Manitou Mastodon?-goni-2a.jpg

  159. #959
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    Well, after all the hemming and hawing, I finally pulled the trigger on a Pro STD 120 for my Les Fat. Also ordered the cane creek lower headset and +3mm race.

    Since I haven't seen many pics in this thread, I definitely post up a couple after I install the fork.
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  160. #960
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    Manitou Mastodon?-mastodon-2.jpg

    Offering a breath of fresh Eye Candy for those who might find value.

    120STD set at 140 on Crestone. Somewhat saddened by the image quality.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Manitou Mastodon?-mastodon-1.jpg  


  161. #961
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    Is anyone rocking this fork on a Beargrease yet? Specifically a large aluminum Beargrease. Trying to decide between this and the bluto. From what I've read, as long as this fork fits right, it's the clear winner.

    Thanks!,

  162. #962
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    Ok, got my 120 Pro STD on my Medium Les Fat. I'm pretty happy with this fork as it looks the beast and I have some confidence that it will meet my expectations of stiffness. Leaving it 120 for now. Will do some experimentations with aire pressure and dampening over the next few rides and this will determine if it stays on. Every previous attempt of me adding a fork to a hard tail has always resulted in reverting back to full rigid.

    Cane Creek ZS56 110 Lower Bearing and +3mm race. Looks like it has created the perfect clearance for the control lever.

    Perfect tire clearance with JJ 4.8 on Mulefuts.

    I saw someone else on here who was complaining of compatibility with their Kuat NV rack. I found a solution and tested on 65 miles of winding rough mountain roads with no issues.

    Hopefully a maiden voyage of Santa Cruz Mountain singletrack tomorrow morning.

    Manitou Mastodon?-img_7272.jpgManitou Mastodon?-img_7263.jpgManitou Mastodon?-img_7269.jpgManitou Mastodon?-img_7268.jpgManitou Mastodon?-img_7248.jpgManitou Mastodon?-img_7274.jpgManitou Mastodon?-img_7273.jpg
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  163. #963
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    I'm about to pull the trigger on a 120 Pro STD for my large farley ex 9.8, but couldn't find a definitive answer if it clears the downtube, even though trek is spec'ing the 18's with the comp. Anyone?

  164. #964
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    Quote Originally Posted by monkey bike View Post
    I'm about to pull the trigger on a 120 Pro STD for my large farley ex 9.8, but couldn't find a definitive answer if it clears the downtube, even though trek is spec'ing the 18's with the comp. Anyone?
    I know someone is running that set up. Clearance is a challenge, he removed the adjuster knobs to give it a bit more space and added some frame protection.

    For factory Farley's with the Mastodon doesn't Trek utilize the knock block device on the headset to protect the frame from the fork? Could you use one of those for your bike?

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  165. #965
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    Something like this may give the needed clearance: https://www.mtbtools.com/product/ext...ork-clearance/


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  166. #966
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    Thanks to all that have posted here...it's been a good read and really helped me understand this fork. I've now got a Pro 120 Std which I've just put through it's first ride today. A couple quick notes:

    I did not find it to have any stiction out of the box. Maybe some do but this one felt like butter to me.

    I know the book says the Surly Bud won't work but I gave it a try anyway mostly because I don't have time to adjust it right now. Anyway, the Bud does rub the bottom of the crown just a tiny bit when you bottom the fork pretty hard. Not enough to send me over the bars but noticeable enough that I can agree with Manitou and suggest you don't do it without knowing the risk. I did let the air out of the fork and compress it to check the clearance and did not have any rubbing when doing this statically. So, the bumper must be doing it job well compressing a fair bit when needed which allows the rub.

    Yes, I could bottom the fork off a small jump on the trails with 95psi in the fork. I'm a tall, 245lb rider so I tend to be rough on things. I started kinda low with pressure based on feedback from this forum and it honestly feels really great most of the time but I'll need to add pressure for bigger hits and summer riding where more speed is involved. Not a big deal as the label on the fork suggests I could run more psi anyway.

    I plan to adjust this to 130mm travel by removing two spacers at the top and adding one at the bottom when I get the time. I know that will increase the A-C but I think it's worth trying before deciding. That should stop the tire rub on bigger hits and give a touch more travel to soak up those hits.

  167. #967
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    Hey guys,i have followed this thread with interest as a plan on putting a Mastodon on the front of my Salted rock candy(dual sus fatty).It has a bluto now,which is adequate for general trail duties but not for what the bike is capable of.Now,there is a company based down here in Australia selling Mastodon forks for a very reasonable price,BUT the stanchions are SILVER ?!! Ive loooked on the Manitou website and even asked the Manitou facebonk page and they didnt reply if they did a run of non black forks,but were interested to know the company that was selling them.This company is legit,ive bout from them before and no dramas whatso ever but im wondering if they have picked up Counterfit forks and not themselves realised.(I emailed them in regards to the silver stanchions and they seemed to know nothing at all about the fork(ie could it be extended etc..)but they said they were a liscenced dealer for Manitou,and they do carry other manitou forks that all look legit.Seeing as some of the posters here seem to be very much in the know I thought perhaps someone on here could shed some light on this,cheers

  168. #968
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikemad1 View Post
    Hey guys,i have followed this thread with interest as a plan on putting a Mastodon on the front of my Salted rock candy(dual sus fatty).It has a bluto now,which is adequate for general trail duties but not for what the bike is capable of.Now,there is a company based down here in Australia selling Mastodon forks for a very reasonable price,BUT the stanchions are SILVER ?!! Ive loooked on the Manitou website and even asked the Manitou facebonk page and they didnt reply if they did a run of non black forks,but were interested to know the company that was selling them.This company is legit,ive bout from them before and no dramas whatso ever but im wondering if they have picked up Counterfit forks and not themselves realised.(I emailed them in regards to the silver stanchions and they seemed to know nothing at all about the fork(ie could it be extended etc..)but they said they were a liscenced dealer for Manitou,and they do carry other manitou forks that all look legit.Seeing as some of the posters here seem to be very much in the know I thought perhaps someone on here could shed some light on this,cheers
    Who's the seller? There has been a change in Aus distributor in the last year, but I've never seen or heard of a Mastodon with silver stanchions. It could be an OEM special build.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  169. #969
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    ive seen in posted by some aus sellers, silver stanchion
    17 Lynskey Fatskey
    07 Kona Stab
    14 Specialized Fatboy
    04 Santa Cruz V10

    My Ebay store link

  170. #970
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    they are a company called cyclingdeal. I found them on ebay.com.au .They claim to be a liscenced dealer,they have plenty of Manitou forks in their lineup so Idont doubt them,but like I said based on their reply they dont know much about them.The guy on the facebook Manitou page said he would look into it,as yet no reply.If they are legit and Made by manitou then I might jump on them,they are 650au and free postage

  171. #971
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    I think its just cyclingdeal,or have you seen them elsewhere as well mate?

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  173. #973
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    Thats interesting MozFat,also looks like cyclingdeal is probably a branch of the american version.Would love to find out why the colour difference though,perhaps some prototypes they did before the settled on Black stanchions and just want to offload them?!

  174. #974
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikemad1 View Post
    they are a company called cyclingdeal. I found them on ebay.com.au .They claim to be a liscenced dealer,they have plenty of Manitou forks in their lineup so Idont doubt them,but like I said based on their reply they dont know much about them.The guy on the facebook Manitou page said he would look into it,as yet no reply.If they are legit and Made by manitou then I might jump on them,they are 650au and free postage
    That's a US seller and the fork is a Mastodon Comp that appears to be OEM. Because OEM can order whatever spec they want, you won't know what it actually is until you've got it.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  175. #975
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    Sorry,what does OEM mean?

  176. #976
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikemad1 View Post
    Sorry,what does OEM mean?
    Original Equipment Manufacturer. It means they were made in a special spec for a bike company.

    They're different to the ones sold aftermarket retail.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  177. #977
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Original Equipment Manufacturer. It means they were made in a special spec for a bike company.

    They're different to the ones sold aftermarket retail.
    Ah I see. So some company wanted the fork for a particular model but with silver stanchions. So these would be a legit product.Any idea if they would be any better or worse than the black ones?

  178. #978
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    The silver stanchions are different... Thankfully, both of mine are black.



  179. #979
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    well at least they seem legit

  180. #980
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy Carter View Post
    Yes, I could bottom the fork off a small jump on the trails with 95psi in the fork. I'm a tall, 245lb rider so I tend to be rough on things. I started kinda low with pressure based on feedback from this forum and it honestly feels really great most of the time but I'll need to add pressure for bigger hits and summer riding where more speed is involved. Not a big deal as the label on the fork suggests I could run more psi anyway.
    Have you considered using the IVA to adjust the spring rate? If you decide to keep the fork at 120mm, setting the IVA to the 100mm config will allow you to use lower pressure and not use all the travel as easily.

    If you go to 140mm then leaving the IVA at 120mm would probably be a good idea.

    When I changed my fork to 140mm I left the IVA at 120mm. In stock config I was regularly using all the travel, after the change I've yet to use full travel (though most riding has been on snow since the change). I haven't yet added the additional bumpers for tire clearance - after doing that I may adjust the IVA to allow the travel to be used more easily.

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  182. #982
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    Quote Originally Posted by david.p View Post
    Have you considered using the IVA to adjust the spring rate? If you decide to keep the fork at 120mm, setting the IVA to the 100mm config will allow you to use lower pressure and not use all the travel as easily.

    If you go to 140mm then leaving the IVA at 120mm would probably be a good idea.

    When I changed my fork to 140mm I left the IVA at 120mm. In stock config I was regularly using all the travel, after the change I've yet to use full travel (though most riding has been on snow since the change). I haven't yet added the additional bumpers for tire clearance - after doing that I may adjust the IVA to allow the travel to be used more easily.
    I honestly have not got that far yet. I got the fork, dropped it on and rode it. I'm hoping to adjust the travel this week if I have time and ride it a bit more before deciding what to do with any other adjustments. But, it's interesting you say this because I thought I had read that adding travel without adjusting the IVA will make the fork more progressive and stiffer at the limit which could help me and you seem to confirm that.

  183. #983
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    How are these forks handling the cold?

  184. #984
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rangie View Post
    How are these forks handling the cold?
    I've only got a few rides in on mine so far. All rides between -5įf and +5įf and it's been perfect so far.

  185. #985
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    I've on many rides with mine and down to about -5 f and it has been flawless. Actually so good I forget about it.

  186. #986
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    Does anyone sell the fork set at 140mm or do you have to adjust the 120mm version?

    I'm assuming the Pro standard version (not ext) would work for a Fatillac?

  187. #987
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy Carter View Post
    I honestly have not got that far yet. I got the fork, dropped it on and rode it. I'm hoping to adjust the travel this week if I have time and ride it a bit more before deciding what to do with any other adjustments. But, it's interesting you say this because I thought I had read that adding travel without adjusting the IVA will make the fork more progressive and stiffer at the limit which could help me and you seem to confirm that.
    I'm 255 and I run alll 4 IVA tokens above the piston/seal. Without that I would either bottom out or it's too harsh.

  188. #988
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shark View Post
    Does anyone sell the fork set at 140mm or do you have to adjust the 120mm version?

    I'm assuming the Pro standard version (not ext) would work for a Fatillac?
    i'm sure your vendor can make the change to 140mm for you before shippping.

  189. #989
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    You guys that are extending these forks are paying attention to the fork requirements of the frame makers. You put a 160mm fork on a frame that was designed for a 120mm fork, you risk tearing the head tube off the frame. That fork is a big lever arm and by increasing its the length you are increasing the load on the frame.

  190. #990
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    Quote Originally Posted by MUSTCLIME View Post
    You guys that are extending these forks are paying attention to the fork requirements of the frame makers. You put a 160mm fork on a frame that was designed for a 120mm fork, you risk tearing the head tube off the frame. That fork is a big lever arm and by increasing its the length you are increasing the load on the frame.
    Wouldn't that only be a risk if it changes the A-C distance? Changing the 120mm to 140mm keeps the same A-C.

  191. #991
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    Quote Originally Posted by HDTVdevil View Post
    Wouldn't that only be a risk if it changes the A-C distance? Changing the 120mm to 140mm keeps the same A-C.
    Ummmm no, it lengthens the axle to crown measurements by 20mm.

  192. #992
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Ummmm no, it lengthens the axle to crown measurements by 20mm.
    Think the docs say 571mm for both.

  193. #993
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    From the Mastodon travel change guide:
    Name:  mastodon-ac.jpg
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  194. #994
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    Quote Originally Posted by HDTVdevil View Post
    Think the docs say 571mm for both.
    Your docs are wrong then. Think about where the axle is and then where the crown race sits. Now make them 20mm further apart. That gives you a longer a2c.

  195. #995
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    Point being that the extra travel has to come from somewhere. When you lengthen the travel by removing top out spacers you are allowing the fork to extend further and increasing the A-C.

    It's possible to configure the Mastodon to use only the bottom out spacers to limit travel giving the same 551mm A-C for the STD fork at 120mm and 140mm but that's not how it's configured from the factory or spec'd, likely because that would make the fork taller than most would want in the 120mm configuration.

  196. #996
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Your docs are wrong then. Think about where the axle is and then where the crown race sits. Now make them 20mm further apart. That gives you a longer a2c.
    Are you sure it's not just limiting the travel inside similar to a lefty?

  197. #997
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    Quote Originally Posted by KTMNealio View Post
    I'm 255 and I run alll 4 IVA tokens above the piston/seal. Without that I would either bottom out or it's too harsh.
    Thanks for that. I'll make an adjustment to the IVA when I get in there and see how it changes things.

  198. #998
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    Don't ask, don't tell.

    Quote Originally Posted by MUSTCLIME View Post
    You guys that are extending these forks are paying attention to the fork requirements of the frame makers. You put a 160mm fork on a frame that was designed for a 120mm fork, you risk tearing the head tube off the frame. That fork is a big lever arm and by increasing its the length you are increasing the load on the frame.

  199. #999
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shark View Post
    Are you sure it's not just limiting the travel inside similar to a lefty?
    Positive we are not talking about limiting but extending. Now if someone has 20mm of spacers limiting the travel by the bottom out bumpers on a 140 fork giving you only 120mm of travel but the same a2c of of 140 than yes removing said spacers would give you back all 140 and keeping the A2C the same. That being said they are not configured that way (as stated above) and have absolutely no idea why one would set up a fork like this that way. Now a lefty that's another story.

  200. #1000
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy Carter View Post
    Thanks for that. I'll make an adjustment to the IVA when I get in there and see how it changes things.
    I should also put that I run about 95 psi (on my gauge). Before I swapped the tokens I had to run 110 psi to keep it from blowing through the stroke.

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