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  1. #1
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    looking for comparison of pocketed studs

    I want to see if anyone has any experience and therefor an opinion on the different pocket studs that are out there. i am looking to get a second set of studded tires and i am going with the 4" dillingers. i am currently on 5" dillingers and they work great except in really icy conditions. i actually need less float for the heavily trafficked trails around me.

    Studs i am looking at.
    -china knock off studs (currently running these)
    -45nrth XL concave
    -Wazia triple whatever they call them.

    Basically does one of these work better then the other or is it all marketing. i am leaning towards the wazia's cause they look like they would hold better.

    not going to do any sort of screw in stud as i don't want to have to deal with any issues going tubeless.

    thanks in advance.

  2. #2
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    Concave studs are pretty good compared to the pointy ones. I don't have any experience with the Wazia.
    --Peace

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jefflinde View Post
    not going to do any sort of screw in stud as i don't want to have to deal with any issues going tubeless.
    Using Surly Bud for 2 years and Maxxis Minion DHF 3.0 with BestGrip/GripStuds and zero problems with tubeless. Lots more grip than any of the "normal" bikestuds.

  4. #4
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    I rode the Dillinger 4 studded last year for a few and they hooked up great on ice! I have one w the concave studs on front and the rear w the regular flat top cylindrical studs.

    I could not tell the difference in traction, both ends were aewsome!
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  5. #5
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    I know this isn't the question you asked, but the answer for more traction on ice is to go back to ~2" tires. Which probably means 29" wheels to keep your geometry static. More PSI pushing every stud into the ice is the goal.

  6. #6
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    Unfortunately that is the answer but the trails are a mix of packed snow and then ice in the sunny spots so I need a little bit of float. Plus the trail managers get really pissed if you don't run a fat tire and I need them for racing. I think I am leaning towards the wazia studs as they just look like they will grip better. More jagged with the three points. Thanks everyone for your input.

  7. #7
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    looking for comparison of pocketed studs

    Quote Originally Posted by Jefflinde View Post

    Studs i am looking at.
    -china knock off studs (currently running these)
    -45nrth XL concave
    -Wazia triple whatever they call them.

    I used both the 45nrth and Terrene Wazia studs last year. Have not had a chance to try the 45nrth XL studs.

    In my opinion the Terrene Wazia studs are much sharper and have better bite than the 45nrth studs. If you studded up a full Dillinger 4 with the Terrene studs there is pretty much no way you'll lose grip.

    We had a pretty nasty ice season last year and even with running fewer studs on the Terrene Wazia tires (vs. Dillingers) I had zero issue with sliding out. The guys that designed the Dillinger tires / studs when they worked for QBP now make the Wazia tires and studs and view this as their next generation offering.

    Pics for fun... Makes me excited for ice riding again!





    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  8. #8
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    If grip is the goal I would go with the Grip Studs, they are simply more aggressive. Cost is a factor but that can be mitigated with large buys direct from China. Pricing last year could be well under 50 cents each. Grip can be tailored to a degree with insertion depth and they can be transferred from one tire to the next. They stick in the tire more reliably. I've played with adding pocket studs to D4's, that does improve them markedly but not with a racing intent, just to stay out of the ER!

  9. #9
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    Are the 45N XL studs available yet?
    "At least I'm enjoying the ride"

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    16' Sturgis

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  10. #10
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    Terrene studs are pretty inexpensive. Wondering if they would improve the center of my d5's since the current studs seat a bit too far into the pocket.
    "At least I'm enjoying the ride"

    16' Trek 8.4 DS
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  11. #11
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    Thread resurrection.

    I just tried the flat tip studs from Bikestud.com, and many of them barely protrude from my Gnarwhal tread blocks. I called Trek, and they said 5.8 mm overall height was what they showed in their system. Side note: Trek has really impressed me over the last few months - when I call, a human answers and has answers to my questions. No call routing or anything - awesome.

    So, I pulled out the old calipers and measured about 50 of the bikestud.com studs. Only 1 came in over 5.6 mm overall height. Most were between 5.45 and 5.55 mm. The diagram on their site shows 5.8 mm.

    Next, I grabbed some 45NRTH concave (non-XL) and measured about 10 of those. All right at 5.8 mm overall height. They seem to protrude well enough.

    Doesnít seem like 0.2 mm would make much difference, but itís noticeable when comparing side by side.

    Iíve opted not to use the bikestud ones on the front tire. Gonna grab some Bontrager studs to see how those look.

  12. #12
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    I have piles of the Bontrager studs in stock. Tell me exactly what you're measuring and I'll throw a caliper on 'em and report back.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    I have piles of the Bontrager studs in stock. Tell me exactly what you're measuring and I'll throw a caliper on 'em and report back.
    Hereís what I pulled off one of the the 45NRTH:


  14. #14
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    Yep, I never measured bikestud studs but they barely stick out of my Dillinger 5s. As for grip they are underwhelming, but comparable to other knock off carbide studs I tried and better than no studs. A year before I studded D4s with carbide flat tip studs from amazon and a set of D4 for a friend with pointed carbide tips from amazon as well. Both sticked out further on D4s, but who knows maybe D5 stud pockets are deeper than D4.

    If I ever need to get studded tires again, I'll suck it up and just buy factory studded tires, probably from Terrene. Buying original 45nrth or Terrene studs separately to stud a full set of tires myself never made sense financially with the prices I was able to find so far.
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  15. #15
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    Bikestud got back with me and is going to send me the concave version. They measured ~6.0 mm for that flavor. Iíll check them when they arrive.

  16. #16
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    BikeStud.com Studs

    These are the BikeStud.com studs. As you can see, the concave studs are taller than the flat studs.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/dyi-stud-pockets-so-you-can-avoid-using-those-expensive-screw-studs-1068342.html

    looking for comparison of pocketed studs-studs.jpg
    Last edited by FatBike&SlenderWoman; 02-17-2018 at 03:25 AM.

  17. #17
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    Top notch work, Mr. FBSW

  18. #18
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    Yes, Thanks FBSW, you are saving many $$ and kneecaps with your efforts. I'll soon be drilling some JJs with your method, and want to use the best studs after all that work. My 45N concave studs measure 6.3mm, and the XLs are 6.45mm. Has anyone measured the Terrene studs? I understand they have two sizes.

  19. #19
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    tonight I measured the conical 45nrth studs that came in my older D4s at 5.65mm+/-, the XL studs were around 6.15mm and the Terrene triple traction came in at ~6.0mm. Lengths between random studs would vary by as much as .05mm. Measuring was done with Mitutoyo digital calipers.

    i have found the XL studs to grip very well, but will pull out of the center lugs more often than I would like. (i never lost a standard stud). Thus, I moved the XL studs to the edges of the tires to help with cornering and put the Terrene studs down the two center rows of Dillinger lugs. Terrene makes two lengths of studs and these are the longer ones. On a short test ride on clean ice they were very grippy. At $.50/stud they are not cheap, but a good improvement. if they stick in the tires better than the XL's, then they will be worth it.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by kryten View Post
    ... maybe D5 stud pockets are deeper than D4.
    It's my understanding that the stud pockets are deeper on the d5 (as reported here on mtbr forum).

    I can confirm this tomorrow evening when i get back. There have been those who have succesfully placed a little washer/spacer (made of gasket material) under the stud in the pocket to get the stud to sit more proud of the tire lug.

    Of course thus can be applied to most any tire or stud but nice to have all the stud options!
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    tonight I measured the conical 45nrth studs that came in my older D4s at 5.65mm+/-
    Same height as the BikeStud.com flat stud. $0.16 ea.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    Terrene triple traction came in at ~6.0mm.
    Same height as the BikeStud.com concave stud. $0.22 ea.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    i have found the XL studs to grip very well, but will pull out of the center lugs more often than I would like.
    Try injecting a little Shoe Goo into the pocket prior to inserting stud. I have been successful at retaining studs in center lugs of a Surly Lou using this method. This also helps fill any voids in the pocket preventing the stud from sinking deeper (bedding) into the lug.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkerik View Post
    It's my understanding that the stud pockets are deeper on the d5
    D5 pockets are 4.5mm deep.

    Quote Originally Posted by kryten View Post
    Yep, I never measured bikestud studs but they barely stick out of my Dillinger 5s.
    The aluminum body of a BikeStud flat stud is flush with a D5 pocket leaving the carbide tip sticking out 1.1mm.

    The aluminum body of a BikeStud concave stud is .3mm taller than a D5 pocket leaving the carbide tip sticking out 1.5mm.

    This is a photo is a new D5 with a BikeStud concave stud on the left and a BikeStud flat stud on the right following a 25 mile ride round trip across a lake.

    These stud profiles can be viewed by scrolling up to post #16 of this thread.
    You can click on this image to enlarge.

    looking for comparison of pocketed studs-bikestudsd5.jpg
    Last edited by FatBike&SlenderWoman; 02-26-2018 at 11:10 AM.

  22. #22
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    the Terrene triple traction came in at ~6.0mm
    Quote Originally Posted by FatBike&SlenderWoman View Post

    Same height as the BikeStud.com concave stud. $0.22 ea.
    However the Terrene studs have a scalloped edge along the concave top, so they are a bit different. Are they worth 2+ times as much? Hard to say.

    Good work on your pocketing tips. I am going to try it with a Nate.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by FatBike&SlenderWoman View Post
    Same height as the BikeStud.com flat stud. $0.16 ea.



    Same height as the BikeStud.com concave stud. $0.22 ea.



    Try injecting a little Shoe Goo into the pocket prior to inserting stud. I have been successful at retaining studs in center lugs of a Surly Lou using this method. This also helps fill any voids in the pocket preventing tthe stud from sinking deeper (bedding) into the lug.



    D5 pockets are 4.5mm deep.



    The aluminum body of a BikeStud flat stud is flush with a D5 pocket leaving the carbide tip sticking out 1.1mm.

    The aluminum body of a BikeStud concave stud is .3mm taller than a D5 pocket leaving the carbide tip sticking out 1.5mm.

    This is a photo is a new D5 with a BikeStud concave stud on the left and a BikeStud flat stud on the right.

    These stud profiles can be viewed by scrolling up to post #16 of this thread.
    You can click on this image to enlarge.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	BikeStudsD5.jpg 
Views:	45 
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ID:	1184300

    Thanks, just checked bikestud website and I see the option to buy slightly more expensive concave studs. When I purchased from them the option was not there yet, or I missed it. Wish I have those instead as the regular flat ones are terrible in a D5. Amazon knock off (probably same as bikestud flat ones) in D4 were OK, gripped better than what I have now.

    How would those compare to 45nrth original concave studs?
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  24. #24
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    Excellent work again, FBSW. The 45N concave stud edges look sharper to me. Still not sharp enough, or tall enough the other night on off-camber wet ice. If that stuff keeps happening I'll need Kold Kutters.

  25. #25
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    On my D5 sample pocket depth was:
    center knobs: 3.3, 3.45
    side knobs: 3.95, 4.15

    The concave studs protrude just fine on a new never ridden or mounted D5.

    The D4 center knob pocket depth was 3.1mm

    The concave stud height measured 5.8mm
    Studded Dillinger 4/5 For Sale

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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    However the Terrene studs have a scalloped edge along the concave top, so they are a bit different. Are they worth 2+ times as much? Hard to say.
    On the Terrene website it states, "3-pointed crown shape delivers significantly more traction than any other stud on the market"

    It should be a stipulated that... For as long as this stud never comes in contact with any surface other than frozen water, the 3-pointed crown shape delivers significantly more traction than any other stud on the market.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by FatBike&SlenderWoman View Post
    On the Terrene website it states, "3-pointed crown shape delivers significantly more traction than any other stud on the market"

    It should be a stipulated that... For as long as this stud never comes in contact with any surface other than frozen water, the 3-pointed crown shape delivers significantly more traction than any other stud on the market.
    LOL, I expect that to be true. My first real ride with them will probably be the Birkie Fat Bike Race. They are expecting a little thaw/rain between now and the race. If it gets icey, my Dillingers aught to be be pretty good with a combo of XL and Terrene (new) studs.

    I have some Bikestud concave studs showing up today to stud up a Nate using your pocketing method. That should be a climbing beast.

  28. #28
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    Did anyone ended up measuring those Bontrager studs?

    I would like to replace the original Bikestud flat studs that barely stick out in my D5 and pretty much don't do anything for traction with something taller with more bite. 225 pack of Bontrager studs is way cheaper than Terrene or 45NRTH XLs.
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  29. #29
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    Iíd also like to know the height on the Bontrager. I have a set of Johnny 5ís coming, and am looking at 640 studs to do both tires.

  30. #30
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    Did a little digging. Thereís a FAQ at Bontragers website on these. Somebody asked the dimensions. Here is the answer from Trek: The Studs weight 115g for 225 studs. Each stud is 6.25mm wide at the base and 5.5mm tall.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bentpushrod View Post
    Did a little digging. Thereís a FAQ at Bontragers website on these. Somebody asked the dimensions. Here is the answer from Trek: The Studs weight 115g for 225 studs. Each stud is 6.25mm wide at the base and 5.5mm tall.
    If they are only 5.5mm tall, i would go with the 6mm tall concave Bikestuds.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bentpushrod View Post
    Did a little digging. Thereís a FAQ at Bontragers website on these. Somebody asked the dimensions. Here is the answer from Trek: The Studs weight 115g for 225 studs. Each stud is 6.25mm wide at the base and 5.5mm tall.
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    If they are only 5.5mm tall, i would go with the 6mm tall concave Bikestuds.
    Thats too bad, as they would be useless in my D5.
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  33. #33
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    In a similar boat trying to figure out what to stud a Johnny 5 with. Big question will be it's pocket depth, is it set up for the standard depth studs, or for the xl depth ones. 640 studs is a pile of studs, would prefer to buy correctly the first time.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comfisherman View Post
    In a similar boat trying to figure out what to stud a Johnny 5 with. Big question will be it's pocket depth, is it set up for the standard depth studs, or for the xl depth ones. 640 studs is a pile of studs, would prefer to buy correctly the first time.
    I am going to go out on a limb and expect that the J5 is set up for the Terrene studs. XL studs are 45nrth items, so doubtful Terrene would design a tire around them.

  35. #35
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    For some reason I had it in my head that terrene had longer studs, that were more similar in thength to the xl stud length.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comfisherman View Post
    For some reason I had it in my head that terrene had longer studs, that were more similar in thength to the xl stud length.
    From above in the thread the Terrene studs are 6mm long, as are the Bikestud concave studs. Flat and the original pointed 45nrth studs are more in the 5.5-5.6mm range.

    The Terrene studs are .50/ea and the Bikestuds were about .22/ea. I have may have a couple hundred used, but good, original 45north pointed studs that I would sell for about .10/ea if you are interested.

  37. #37
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    If anyone wants to go Mad Max's Hedgehog with their winter tires, these are standard dimensions for stud pockets, except overall length comes to ~8mm.

    7c per on orders of 500....

    https://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...52b07b44n1cWeY

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximumX View Post
    If anyone wants to go Mad Max's Hedgehog with their winter tires, these are standard dimensions for stud pockets, except overall length comes to ~8mm.

    7c per on orders of 500....

    https://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...52b07b44n1cWeY
    8mm is too long. They have these at 6mm but it would require a group order or a desire to go in the stud business to place a minimum order:

    https://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...1cae2ea0tXAzwm

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    8mm is too long. They have these at 6mm but it would require a group order or a desire to go in the stud business to place a minimum order:

    https://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...1cae2ea0tXAzwm
    Considering we could all get 200 of them for 10 bucks, I don't think it'd take much for people around here to give them a try. I'd probably be in for 300 or so myself, even though I live in the desert, because why not?

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by twodownzero View Post
    Considering we could all get 200 of them for 10 bucks, I don't think it'd take much for people around here to give them a try. I'd probably be in for 300 or so myself, even though I live in the desert, because why not?
    But someone would have to front the cash, organize it, mail them and collect the $. If someone wanted to do that, .10/stud would be screaming deal for those buying and make it marginally worth someone's while. .15/stud would be a deal.

  41. #41
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    Anyone interested in joining in on these 6mm Alibaba studs? It looks like you can get 10000 for $200. I'd be willing to front the money and divide/ship them if we can get an initial group together of 10+ willing to commit to at least 250 per person at $0.10/stud. I'd heavily discount for bulk orders, as I really don't want to spend my winter counting out and shipping bicycle studs.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by mt2u77 View Post
    Anyone interested in joining in on these 6mm Alibaba studs? It looks like you can get 10000 for $200. I'd be willing to front the money and divide/ship them if we can get an initial group together of 10+ willing to commit to at least 250 per person at $0.10/stud. I'd heavily discount for bulk orders, as I really don't want to spend my winter counting out and shipping bicycle studs.
    Looks like they may come 200 per bx, Maybe you can get them customized at 250 per bx?
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