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  1. #1
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    Latest Narrow Q Factor Bikes?

    What are the current options for true narrow Q factor based frames with short chain stays?

    Are these still the primary options? Or are there any other options?

    Rocky Mountain Suzi Q
    Otzo Voytek
    Salsa Beargrease

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevbikemad View Post
    What are the current options for true narrow Q factor based frames with short chain stays?

    Are these still the primary options?

    Rocky Mountain Suzi Q
    Otzo Voytek
    Salsa Beargrease
    It might be helpful if you list the Q factor and the crank set/ spindle used for the three bikes you listed.
    Lucky neighbor of Maryland's Patapsco Valley State Park, 39.23,-76.76 Flickr

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    Nothing special about the Q factor on the Rocky or Salsa ( both use cranks for 170 spaced bikes...unless I'm missing something)....so you could add Trek Farley in there.

    The Otzo uses a propriotary RaceFace spindle to shave off a few mm's....but you're stuck with that crank.

    And what size/width tires are you looking to use?
    Some bikes like trek and Otso have adjustable drop outs....RM and Salsa don't...so depending on what you want for wheel/tire combos....

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by the mayor View Post
    Nothing special about the Q factor on the Rocky or Salsa ( both use cranks for 170 spaced bikes...unless I'm missing something)....so you could add Trek Farley in there.

    The Otzo uses a propriotary RaceFace spindle to shave off a few mm's....but you're stuck with that crank.

    And what size/width tires are you looking to use?
    Some bikes like trek and Otso have adjustable drop outs....RM and Salsa don't...so depending on what you want for wheel/tire combos....
    27.5 x 4 is fine, fitting 4.5 would be a bonus.

    So the RM, Salsa and Trek are all just setup based on 170 rear spacing?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevbikemad View Post
    27.5 x 4 is fine, fitting 4.5 would be a bonus.

    So the RM, Salsa and Trek are all just setup based on 170 rear spacing?
    Yes,,,,many fatties can use a 170 spindle in a 197 frame ( but some can't)
    I ran a 27.5x3.8 Hodag on the Otso I demoed....it was a while back and I don't remember what rim was used...but it was probably in the 50-65 mm range....or where the rear chip was set.
    I don't think most 27.5 x4.5 tires will fit ,,,they tend to be big.

  6. #6
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    You can add a Kona Wozo to that list for short chain stays...but reg fattie Q

  7. #7
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    The Otso...with a propriotary RF Spindle has a Q factor of 189 with a RF R or Affect crank.
    A 170 spindle is 20mm wider ( 10 per side)
    If you use SPD pedals....XTR pedals have a version 3mm shorter spindles

  8. #8
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    Some of those bikes have an 83mm bottom bracket, so the q-factor is narrower than 100mm bottom bracket bikes. Off the top of my head, I believe the Kona Wozo, Rocky Mountain Suzi Q and one of the RSD bikes use an 83mm bottom bracket for a narrower q-factor.

  9. #9
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    I was Wrong on the Rocky Mountain....it has the same 83mm bb as the Otso.

    But the Wozo lists a 121 bb ( same as Trek and Salsa)

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by the mayor View Post
    I was Wrong on the Rocky Mountain....it has the same 83mm bb as the Otso.
    OK, that makes more sense.

    So those are really still the only narrow Q frames I can find.

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    Huh, I really thought the Kona was 83mm...

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountainbiker24 View Post
    Huh, I really thought the Kona was 83mm...
    I did too..from reading some of the reviews..until I bought one....doh!
    I also did a short test ride on a Suzi Q.....and didn't notice the narrower q factor....so...
    In the end, after building up the Kona...it just didn't do it for me...so I sold it.
    And the Suzi didn't wow me...so I'm sticking with what I have

  13. #13
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    I wanted to buy a Wozo frame, but that had just sold out, so I ended up with a 509. It's not that different than a standard 73mm, but it does take a few minutes to adjust to foot placement. I think it helps having a long inseam.

  14. #14
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    Tumbleweed Prospector is the reigning king I think. You're limited to 4" tires, but you get a standard mtb q factor
    You change your own flats? Support your LBS and pay them to instead.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volsung View Post
    Tumbleweed Prospector is the reigning king I think. You're limited to 4" tires, but you get a standard mtb q factor
    And not so short chain stays.
    So depending what is more important to the OP...

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountainbiker24 View Post
    I wanted to buy a Wozo frame, but that had just sold out, so I ended up with a 509. It's not that different than a standard 73mm, but it does take a few minutes to adjust to foot placement. I think it helps having a long inseam.
    Yes...the Q factor thing is very personal.
    I'm old with wrecked knees and long legs. As long as I have the cleats adjusted correctly, Q isn't an issue for me.
    BUT....wrong seat height or fore/aft placement.....and they start screaming pretty fast.

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    S U R L Y W E D N E S D A Y . . .

    World's best narrow Q-factor fat bike - based on 177m (170m) rear with short chainstays.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman29 View Post
    S U R L Y W E D N E S D A Y . . .

    World's best narrow Q-factor fat bike - based on 177m (170m) rear with short chainstays.
    Pssst....that's not narrow. That's what 98.37293% of all fatbikes are.

  19. #19
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    Wednesday has a 100mm bottom bracket.

    How narrow do you want a fat bike bottom bracket and subsquent q-factor and still have a short chainstay and not have heal strikes.

    I really can't tell the differnce between the Q-factor on my 29+ boost Trek Stache and my Surly Wednesday. I think the boost is a 73mm bottom bracket, so about and inch narrower.

    I do have a friend who complained about heal strikes on his Farley. I never looked into the Q-factor on that bike. I mostly assumed it was his riding style and not too narrow of a Q-factor on a wider rear.

    So, I don't know if you go too narrow on a Q-factor are some people going to have heal strikes and others not.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman29 View Post
    Wednesday has a 100mm bottom bracket.
    fatbikes have a 100mm b/b usually have extrnal cups......the pressfit 121 b/b is the same as a 100 with the external cups.
    So they both meassure 121mm.
    Heal strikes are another matter....and has nothing to do with the b/b
    The bikes the OP is talking about like the Otso have a 83 mm b/b

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by the mayor View Post
    Pssst....that's not narrow. That's what 98.37293% of all fatbikes are.

    You had to know someone was going to come here and make up some cockamamy stats to suit their agenda...

  22. #22
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    There are really only 2 options for production fat bikes with the 83mm BB standard or PF equivalent.

    Rocky Mountain Suzy Q
    Otso Voytek

    If you want the 183mm q factor you need to find one of these with the carbon race face cranks.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    You had to know someone was going to come here and make up some cockamamy stats to suit their agenda...
    Hats off to you sir for the proper use of cockamamy in a sentence.
    Recent marketing studies have shown that 99.72987% of the American public use that word incorrectly...or not at all.
    Make Murica Cockamamay Again!

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountainbiker24 View Post
    Some of those bikes have an 83mm bottom bracket, so the q-factor is narrower than 100mm bottom bracket bikes. Off the top of my head, I believe the Kona Wozo, Rocky Mountain Suzi Q and one of the RSD bikes use an 83mm bottom bracket for a narrower q-factor.
    Sergeant V3. 2.75 x 4 ready with 83mm BB.
    Get fAt, Stay fAt, Ride fAt
    Doctor recommended...

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    Quote Originally Posted by BansheeRune View Post
    Sergeant V3. 2.75 x 4 ready with 83mm BB.
    That's the one! Might be my next bike down the road. I love that company.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by BansheeRune View Post
    Sergeant V3. 2.75 x 4 ready with 83mm BB.
    You all heard it here first, the "new standard" 2.75 wheel diameter. Quicker handling for that tight singletrack!
    Latitude 61

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountainbiker24 View Post
    That's the one! Might be my next bike down the road. I love that company.
    Alex has a good thing going. And now the Sergeant becomes the "Canadian Army Knife" with its ability to go 29+, 27.5+ and 27.5 mid fat.

    Quote Originally Posted by sryanak View Post
    You all heard it here first, the "new standard" 2.75 wheel diameter. Quicker handling for that tight singletrack!
    Who the hell needed to hear it anywhere and not try 29+ vs. 27.5+ for themselves? I traveled from Junktown to Denver in my quest for a +bike.
    With 27.5+ having the rollover of a 29 x WTF tire/wheel, it works well for many conditions. 29+ has its place, indeed, thus, my V3 will have two wheelsets.

    On another note;
    Q factor... Highly subjective, some peeps are affected by it and others simply pay it no mind. Kinda like tire pressure and saddles.
    Get fAt, Stay fAt, Ride fAt
    Doctor recommended...

  28. #28
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    I think you missed where the decimal point was on the post I was responding to.
    Latitude 61

  29. #29
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    The Borealis Telluride has an 83mm bb.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by sryanak View Post
    I think you missed where the decimal point was on the post I was responding to.

    Fair enough.... Lysdexia set in once again!
    Get fAt, Stay fAt, Ride fAt
    Doctor recommended...

  31. #31
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    Custom is fun! 83mm shell, 430-450mm chainstays, fits 27.5x4.5.

    Latest Narrow Q Factor Bikes?-waltworks-fat.jpg

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackflys64 View Post
    Custom is fun! 83mm shell, 430-450mm chainstays, fits 27.5x4.5.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Nice, what is the Q-factor? With what cranks?

    Thanks
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  33. #33
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    Race Face NextR, 189mm. Same as a RM SuziQ or Otso Voytek.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackflys64 View Post
    Race Face NextR, 189mm. Same as a RM SuziQ or Otso Voytek.
    Where id you get the spindle?
    RAce Face only sells those cranks to OEM markets.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by the mayor View Post
    Where id you get the spindle?
    RAce Face only sells those cranks to OEM markets.
    They came off my Otso Voytek. I found a Race Face Affect crank on eBay that I installed on it when I sold it.

  36. #36
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    sweet fatty there! as ever walt nails the clearance/q situation!

    Quote Originally Posted by blackflys64 View Post
    They came off my Otso Voytek. I found a Race Face Affect crank on eBay that I installed on it when I sold it.
    interesting - i thought the spindle lengths roughly equated to the back end width - https://www.raceface.com/media/Crank...chainlines.pdf

    189 is the 190/197 hub, no? i thought otso used the 83mm bb spindle, but with what is in essence a flipped ring position - more or less, though i think they use a special wt camo one with slightly less + offset? 83mm spindle is the 149.5 for next and flipped is a 65mm chainline - i use that on a plus bike with 3" rear tyre on a 177mm hub and 405mm chainstay...

    oh - and i *think* you can buy all the spindles now? certainly you can buy 149.5 - i have one.

    also note the offset of the cranks from the mountingposition is different too - the alu cranks like turbine, have more...as much as 5mm more iirc. so for a given spindle you get more q but no change in ring position which is the critical bit if you run shortish stays and fat tyres...
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  37. #37
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    Spindle length is determined by BB shell and chainline requirments. You can also change the ring offset to alter chainline as needed. I.E. in a 100mm equivalent BB shell you can accommodate a 197 rear end with a higher offset ring (Trek Farley and many other frames are going this). Same thing going on with my Waltworks, but using an 83mm Shell and 177mm rear end.

    189MM Q factor is the measurement from the outsides of the crank arms. Q Factor often changes as the rear end changes, but is not necearrily

  38. #38
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    gotcha - my bad - I didn't follow the mixed spindle /Q factor width part of the conversation- I think the q for the next sl on 149.5 is ~183 - interesting! not just more beef to the carbon on the next R, but more like the sixc in q then? good to know.

    yeah, I have a few bikes that use wider press fit cups and flipped rings with wider than the norm rear ends to get better chain line and short stays. my fatty uses a press fit 30 120mm wide shell with the 169 spindle - giving q of 203 and 410 stays but will only allow the 4.5 26" tyres or *just* 27.5 hodag. its ti though with no plates, just tubes. 197 rear end.

    (here with 29+/27.5+ wheels)

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    plus bike -

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    which is a press fit 100 ish, 177 rear end.

    I like the chain ring to line up much more towards the bigger rear sprockets than the smaller if possible as this improves 'working' chainline and work to use the nominal size up on the rear as would be suggested by manufacturers. 83 flipped/177 is a sweet set up....

    more of my workings and waffle on the options...https://drj0nswanderings.wordpress.c...-versus-cinch/
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackflys64 View Post
    They came off my Otso Voytek. I found a Race Face Affect crank on eBay that I installed on it when I sold it.
    Interesting, I have a Voytek and have toyed with the idea of replacing it with a Waltworks custom steel frame. How's the ride compare?

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