Larry/Nate?

[Old Bag]

Over the weekend we were riding some packed singletrack with a bit of loose, dry, dusty stuff on top. After getting my psi right for the small bumps, the bike felt a little "slippery" in tight corners (noticed it in front mainly, but the rear wasn't as solid as I'd have liked either). Is this due to the low psi/large tire size combo? would I find more bite with another tire? I found myself scrubbing speed instead of feeling comfortable riding through it...even with some banking. A friend on a 29er had the same comments.

I'm running Larry/Larry...didn't occur to me at the time to reverse Larry.

Looks like Nate is good in mud, Endo is good in sand? The trails weren't quite either one of those.

Thoughts?

[motorman]

I'm sure Nate's would make a huge difference for now, till Husker Du's come on the market, but I think you need to look at the kind of trail you are riding with a fatty.
Using words like "scrubbing speed" & "tight corners" makes me think the bike might not be the best tool for the job for that kind of trail....

[Velobike]

Probably more to do with the steering geometry.

I reckon a tighter head angle is needed for a fatbike for non-winter conditions.

[Old Bag]

I'm sure Nate's would make a huge difference for now, till Husker Du's come on the market, but I think you need to look at the kind of trail you are riding with a fatty.
Using words like "scrubbing speed" & "tight corners" makes me think the bike might not be the best tool for the job for that kind of trail....

Actually it was hella fun -- we've got some trails in the city close to home (Minneapolis, where they make the most of an acre...too much sometimes) that I've tried with the fatty and probably won't ride again unless with the hardtail: too tight and too many corners. Last weekend's trails were perfect as far as singletrack and fatties go -- swooping, elevation, minimal features or roots, worn-in, some great banked descents...however, with loose, dusty stuff here and there and a few tight corners.

Would a traditional mtb have been best? Depends on the experience one is looking for. The Fatbacks were surprisingly nimble! Great climbers too. What a gas.

So, you're suggesting Nates front and back for hardpack with loose covering?

[motorman]

I can't really comment from experience on Nates for your riding conditions, but there have been quite a few people on here who really rate them on loose conditions, especially up front.

[ishouldbeworking]

Velobike - tighter = steeper?

[Velobike]

Velobike - tighter = steeper?

Yes. Ideally steeper head angle and adjust the fork offset to keep a good trail figure. Also gets rid of that flat tyre feeling on grippier surfaces.

Purely my opinion, but it's based on trying several different combinations of head angle and fork offset with fat tyres.

I haven't tried the different combinations in deep snow, so I can't speak for snow conditions yet.

[Old Bag]

Hadn't thought about the head angle -- 1.5 degree slacker than my mtb. Interesting. Out of curiosity I'll see what I can dig up with regard to the offset....not to say I'll mess with it, but interesting to know.

[sryanak]

As long as you are having fun ride that thing. Don't get caught up in the Fatbikes have too slack a head tube or too much this argument. In your post you said the 29er had the same problem so it wasn't just the fatbike. Sure there are better bikes for different applications but if you are having fun that is what counts. If you make the turns tight enough and vary the surface then every bike will at some point slip out. I ride Larrys on 47 mm rims pumped up a bit harder than is optimum for "suspension" and they work pretty well on packed trails with a little loose stuff thrown in. I am looking forward to trying some Husker Du's, for me Nate seems like overkill but I get it that others will like them.

[damnitman]

another factor might be rim width...narrower rims make for a bunch of sidewall to flex and potentially negatively impact your ride...I know I notice the difference on 44mm rims v 65mm or 100mm...not as noticeable on 65mm v 100mm, though I would imagine the more aggro you get the more the 65's would flex...

[Guitar Ted]

Actually it was hella fun -- we've got some trails in the city close to home (Minneapolis, where they make the most of an acre...too much sometimes) that I've tried with the fatty and probably won't ride again unless with the hardtail: too tight and too many corners. Last weekend's trails were perfect as far as singletrack and fatties go -- swooping, elevation, minimal features or roots, worn-in, some great banked descents...however, with loose, dusty stuff here and there and a few tight corners.

Would a traditional mtb have been best? Depends on the experience one is looking for. The Fatbacks were surprisingly nimble! Great climbers too. What a gas.

So, you're suggesting Nates front and back for hardpack with loose covering?

Minneapolis? I'm familiar with the trails to some extent up there.

I rode my Mukluk in Northfield over Labor day weekend on some single track around Carleton and St. Olaf colleges. At times I forgot I was on a fat bike.

That said, at times it was painfully clear I was on a fat bike. (Going up anyone?) As has been stated here on these forums, a fat bike isn't as efficient as a hard tail or light FS rig on single track, but a fat bike is definitely capable of running that terrain, and a ton of fun, so.....

Horses for courses. Run what makes you smile.

Personally, I wouldn't run Nates up there. I'd run the Huskers when they come out, or just Larry's. Nates are overkill for those trails, in my opinion.

[joboo]

Over the weekend we were riding some packed singletrack with a bit of loose, dry, dusty stuff on top. After getting my psi right for the small bumps, the bike felt a little "slippery" in tight corners (noticed it in front mainly, but the rear wasn't as solid as I'd have liked either). Is this due to the low psi/large tire size combo? would I find more bite with another tire? I found myself scrubbing speed instead of feeling comfortable riding through it...even with some banking. A friend on a 29er had the same comments.

I'm running Larry/Larry...didn't occur to me at the time to reverse Larry.

Looks like Nate is good in mud, Endo is good in sand? The trails weren't quite either one of those.

Thoughts?

OB~
Glad to see you guys are giving the Fat Biys some summer loving!!!
Snows just around the corner and, IMHO that's where you'll really learn about how the PSI effects your Fat tire enjoyment!!! What I found out riding my Fat boy during the non dark times............. Don't over think your PSI in the tires. I was playing with PSI in the beginning and it seemed like I was doing more stopping and going than just plain old riding. I settled on 15-22 PSI for full-time non dark time riding pleasure. Dealing with the harsher ride in certain spots, cause around the next corner my set up was perfect....... Then not so much....... Then perfect again. I error on the side of too much PSI, cause I don't like the flexy feeling of too little PSI during my non dark time riding.
Personally I love the Larry's, and yes when I get two of them the rear will be put on backwards just like my Endo is.
As far as the Nate, for my riding here in the northern part of the state it'll be way overkill. Also I don't see it being good in the snow, again just MHO.

Peace, Joboo

[Drew Diller]

Old Bag - I remember you - I had a really random crash on 1" thick dust at a really tame corner at Carver Lake. The front slipped out and I was on the ground before I had time to think. I've since learned that Larry up front is better than Endo for dust grip (MORC trails have a lot of this), but the confidence they inspire compared to an Endo is overstated in the front.

Get a Nate in the front, they stick like glue. Beware they make road riding an absolute chore. And yeah they are a bit overkill, I'm looking forward to Husker Dus.

[Old Bag]

Syranak -- no worries about me getting too caught up in angles and purposes, but I do get into knowing why certain rides have certain characteristics...I'm more of a gearhead when it comes to road bikes (heck, all there is to mtbs is knobs, suspension, and dirt right??), so it's interesting to learn the nuances of mtbs as well.

Damnitman -- hadn't thought about various rim sizes affecting the ride, but it makes total sense.

GT, Joboo, Motorman -- thanks for the thoughts on the Nates, Husker Dus, etc. I've been a little out of the loop in the past month so didn't know how aggressive each one is.

Drew -- Hey! Thanks again for the Battle Creek tour! and for the Endo/Nate thoughts. Have you ridden Cuyuna with your fat yet? Compared to June the trails seemed to have a lot more scruff on top while being more ridden-in underneath (we were on our regular mtbs in June tho).

[sryanak]

another factor might be rim width...narrower rims make for a bunch of sidewall to flex and potentially negatively impact your ride...I know I notice the difference on 44mm rims v 65mm or 100mm...not as noticeable on 65mm v 100mm, though I would imagine the more aggro you get the more the 65's would flex...

The narrower rims sure can make for a squirrely ride if tire pressure is too low. They do have some advantages though for summer riding though. First they are 3/4 pound per wheel lighter. They also make for a rounder tire section which for me makes for more "normal" steering. As I stated earlier I pump up the tires to a slightly higher pressure than would be optimum for suspension. This is to deal with the sidewall flex/squirrely ride issue.

[Velobike]

...Don't get caught up in the Fatbikes have too slack a head tube or too much this argument...

Good point. There's no-one complaining that any of the current crop of fatbikes have bad steering.

It's worth bearing in mind that those bikes have all evolved from experiences learned from snow use.

Another point is that most of them are designed to be capable of being loaded up and taken bush for a few weeks, and that requires steering characteristics that won't fatigue you over an extended period.

My experiments have all been based around an unladen bike for short rides, nothing longer than 12 hours.

[Schmucker]

Maybe the On One will be more suited to Velobike's desires.

[cendres]

Another Twin Cities local here. I rode Lebanon a handful of times in the past month on Larrys. I wasn't overly pleased initially, but once I adjusted my expectations and riding style, they worked okay. Well, the rear worked pretty well, but up front, Larry pushed pretty bad in the corners. I had tire pressure at 8 front/10 rear on 80mm rims.

I put on a pair of Nates last week. I've only been out on them twice so far, but they seem to be a far better dirt tire. I've settled on 8.5 psi front/9.5psi rear, and have been happy with the improved cornering. Jury's still out on rear straight-line traction, though. For the moment, I'm running both tires same direction. I had the rear Larry mounted backwards and it climbed well. Curious to see if Nate responds similarly.

[Old Bag]

Thanks Cendres -- keep me up on what you think of the Nates.

Has anyone tried reverse Larrys front AND back?

[Schmucker]

I saw someone had it setup like that. They weren't pay attention and road it anyways. Do a search it might come up.