Results 1 to 13 of 13
  1. #1
    This place needs an enema
    Reputation: mikesee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    12,536

    Kuroshiro 6105 rims, long term review.

    I first laced these up in October of 2015.

    They are 100mm wide internal, 105mm external. 550g/rim = very light.

    90% of the miles they've seen have been snow of the incredibly soft variety.

    The other 10% have been washes and sand dunes and some rock crawling.



    I used DT Swiss SuperComp triple butted spokes, laced 2x, with DT Prolock alloy nips. I find that with fatbike-width hubs the spoke gauge and lacing pattern matter very little, because so much of the wheel's stability is coming from the excessive center to flange distances. Might as well go light. More on that in a bit.



    On normal doublewall rims the nipples are buried between the walls, and they never come in contact with the sealant or a tube. On singlewall rims like these, the nips are right there, being bathed in sealant if tubeless, or poking into the tube if there is one.

    I think it's important to cover the heads of the nips somehow.

    Why? Long term protection of the nipples from corrosion by sealant, and of the tube (should you ever need to use one) from being punctured by the nipples. So in the pic above you're seeing blobs of Shoe Goo over top of the nipple heads. Couldn't see a good reason to get more complicated than that. YMMV.



    This wheelset was built for a brand new chassis, and as such the first rides were spent more focused on getting my contact points in the right places, and marveling at the size and (slow!) speed of the tires. Never really noticed anything about the wheels in any direction.



    A few months later we'd managed a few deep snow alpine rides and a few local dirt/rock/ice rides. The latter are emphatically not what this bike was designed for, and -- largely because these rims are so expensive and relatively fragile -- not the sort of place I like to take this bike. I have other bikes for that.



    After a ~month worth of soft snow, cold temp, high alpine rides, it became obvious that the Vee 2XL tires had massive float, but that the rubber compound was sub-optimal for subzero temps. A few calls later and I'd not only learned that Vee made a cold-temp-specific compound, but I also had a few of those tires on the way. Seen below, the 2XL's with creme-colored "PSC" cold-specific compound. Much, much better.



    I did a few springtime wash bashing rides using a Manitou Mastodon and (usually) with a set of B Fat wheels and tires on the bike. Wash bashing is hard on bikes -- especially when there are pourovers or house-sized boulders that need to be clambered over or under -- and this bike is too rare and too precious to just beat senselessly like that. I still ride washes but I typically do it on a stock Trek Farley with taller/skinnier B Fat wheels these days. In essence I save this Meriwether for deep snow specific missions as it is so, so dialed for that purpose.



    When we ride the alpine it usually means pressures of 1psi, usually less. Basically just groveling along, almost riding on the rims. Run more pressure, or narrower rims, or smaller tires, and you dig holes while remaining in place -- simple as that. Anyone that doubts this is welcome to bring whatever bike they have and come join us sometime: We never tire of looking back to see their incredulous faces walking next to their inadequately floating bikes. And then we leave them with their thoughts.



    I'm reluctant to say that any one part of this package is "the key" because without all of the attendant parts it simply wouldn't work. Like, remove the crown race -- then what?

    Pedantry aside, I get asked often which of the many attendant components make this bike work so well at it's intended purpose. Is it the geometry? The steering damper? The enormous volume tires? The gucci rims?

    It's just never that simple.

    Below is a clip that shows a few seconds of an average winter ride in our backyard.



    There is a clearly delineated and marginally packed trail. There is no one else out, and the wind is drifting the trail in quickly. I rode for another hour -- until I couldn't even make out where the trail had been -- then found an exit and got out while I could.



    Because the snow we ride is so consistently soft, so devoid of moisture, with so little traffic compressing it before it gets buried again, and again, I think it's important to recognize that it's the sum of the parts of this package that make it work.

    How do I know? Last week I took my Trek Farley up to these same trails, shod with industry-standard rims and tires, and running low-as-you-could-go pressures. The Farley is a great design, aimed at the bulk of the market whom ride trails with a lot less snow and a lot more traffic than what we get. It is a universally loved bike -- I bought it because it is so good at so many things.

    And on that day last week, with my trusty Farley by my side, I walked. A lot. While my wife (on her Meriwether) and Pete (on my Meriwether) pedaled along and conversed, somewhat oblivious to how soft the snow really was, and being careful to wait at intersections so that I could see which way they'd gone.



    The Farley is -- just like every other box-stock fatbike -- adequate for an average range of conditions in an average range of places. I love mine, and I use it when I go to those places, or when I ride fat in non-snow months.



    In scenarios where maximum float is necessary I always reach for my Meriwether, shod with 2XL tires on these Kuroshiro rims. Finally -- back to the rims. The entirety of this post has been aimed at getting to where you the reader and hopefully soft-snow rider could understand the conditions we have to work with when we ride snow. And the pressures we have to ride, even with 5" tires on 105mm wide rims.

    So?

    So, I've never had to true or round or retension these wheels since built. I check the tension on occasion as a preventative thing.

    And, not once in the hundreds of hours and miles that I've ridden these tires have I been able to get them to burp when riding. Think about the forces you can put on a 5" wide tire that's effectively running on the rim. No burps, no seeps, no fluid or air loss whatsoever.

    As unexciting as the above might seem, I consider that the highest form of flattery I can offer.

    These wheels? I don't notice anything about them, except that they just keep going and going with effectively no air in the tires.



    Future changes? I'll probably unlace them at some point and re-lace using Berd spokes. Knocking ~100g per wheel off might not be that noticeable in the grand scheme of things -- especially when it's loaded for a weeklong self-support in the sub-arctic. But it's not going to hurt anything, either.

    Don't hesitate with questions.


  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    12
    Thanks for the post. Love the pictures and the thought of riding that kind of snow (on suitable equipment).

  3. #3
    Anchorage, AK
    Reputation: Lars_D's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    1,338
    Awesome review, thanks Mike. Have you used the Berd spokes?

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
    --Peace

  4. #4
    This place needs an enema
    Reputation: mikesee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    12,536
    Quote Originally Posted by Lars_D View Post
    Awesome review, thanks Mike. Have you used the Berd spokes?

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

    Yes. I've built several sets for customers. Two sets for myself. Soon to be a 3rd when I relace these Kuro's with Berds.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    490
    'a weeklong self-support in the sub-arctic'

    Got any more deets on said excursion? ITI related?

  6. #6
    This place needs an enema
    Reputation: mikesee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    12,536
    Quote Originally Posted by frozenmonkey View Post
    'a weeklong self-support in the sub-arctic'

    Got any more deets on said excursion? ITI related?

    Usually but not always. Spent one ~week along the Quest route a few years back. Been looking at something different for this winter, but living where I do -- Colorado -- timing ephemeral conditions in AK is tough. Which is why I've so often ended up on the Iditarod.

    Which is still an amazing route, just not the wilderness that it once seemed to be.

  7. #7
    Anchorage, AK
    Reputation: Lars_D's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    1,338
    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Yes. I've built several sets for customers. Two sets for myself. Soon to be a 3rd when I relace these Kuro's with Berds.
    Are they compatible with brass nipples? I've had little luck with alloy nipples.

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
    --Peace

  8. #8
    This place needs an enema
    Reputation: mikesee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    12,536
    They have no idea what nipples are made of.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Posts
    48
    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Yes. I've built several sets for customers. Two sets for myself. Soon to be a 3rd when I relace these Kuro's with Berds.
    Mike, thanks for the nice post!
    Do you have an info - how much does the set of Berd-spokes weight?
    I mean - 64 pcs. of the needed length, to build your Kuro's?

    P.S. Normal weight of the light spokes (e.g. Sapim Laser or CX-Ray) is about 280 grams per set (64 pcs. of them).
    I have my wheelset with ENSO 6105 built with the TUNE hubs and CN-spokes (double butted titan spokes - just 200 grams per set of 64 pcs.) - I call it "the lightest on Earth full-size one", since it is below 1700 grams level, while being 105 mm wide.
    I do not know - if anyone had build and is using the lighter one...

    The question is - how much could be saved with the Berd spokes (and nipples) in comparison with the traditional set of, e.g. "Lasers+Polyax(alu)" that comes at about just 300 grams (280+22 for the set of 64 pcs)...?

    P.S. Could you, please, share a bit knowledge about the process of building wheels with the Berds? Seems to be a bit complicated and not so usual... so, very interesting to know about the specifics of the building process and results!
    Maybe, you also have some nice pictures to illustrate this?!

    Many thanks beforehand!

  10. #10
    This place needs an enema
    Reputation: mikesee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    12,536
    Quote Originally Posted by Comrade Sukhov View Post
    Do you have an info - how much does the set of Berd-spokes weight?

    P.S. Could you, please, share a bit knowledge about the process of building wheels with the
    I unlaced my everyday 29+ wheelset a ~year+ ago. They had DT SuperComps. I replaced those with Berds. Each wheel lost 110g with only that change.

    I have a Berd thread in the wheel building forum with pics and some of the details you’re after.

  11. #11
    1:18
    Reputation: Corvette's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    503
    That's a great post, thanks for sharing Mike.

    A side note, 1 PSI sounds absolutely crazy I've yet to try anything below 4 PSI, albeit on a different rim+tire combo (85 mm rims w/ Vanhelgas and not nearly as bad snow conditions as on your post). FWIW I've had great experience with single wall carbon rims as well, would take the Kuroshiro ones over Chinese rims for sure if budget would allow.

  12. #12
    This place needs an enema
    Reputation: mikesee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    12,536
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvette View Post
    That's a great post, thanks for sharing Mike.

    A side note, 1 PSI sounds absolutely crazy I've yet to try anything below 4 PSI, albeit on a different rim+tire combo (85 mm rims w/ Vanhelgas and not nearly as bad snow conditions as on your post). FWIW I've had great experience with single wall carbon rims as well, would take the Kuroshiro ones over Chinese rims for sure if budget would allow.

    4psi is like pavement pressure to us. Even all the way up at 1psi feels luxurious compared to what we most often ride.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation: serious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    3,267
    Not surprised about the 1 PSI. I ride 3.8 TIRES at 4 PSI but I am 152 lbs. On the hard,
    frozen ground we now have it is downright harsh.

    I do have the Accu-Gage, so pressure should be fairly accurate.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    My rides:
    Lynskey Ti Pro29 SS
    RM Suzi Q 90 RSL
    KHS Team 29
    S-Works Roubaix
    KHS CX 550 cyclocross

Similar Threads

  1. Looking for carbon tubeless non-tape 29er rims like kuroshiro?
    By OilcanRacer in forum 29er Components
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 07-29-2018, 06:39 PM
  2. Carbon tubeless non-tape 29er rims like kuroshiro?
    By OilcanRacer in forum Wheels and Tires
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-24-2018, 03:07 PM
  3. Long LONG term review 2FO's
    By Osco in forum Apparel and Protection
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 11-23-2017, 09:56 AM
  4. kuroshiro v HED Rims
    By Lars_D in forum Fat bikes
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 03-27-2016, 08:01 PM
  5. Kuroshiro Carbon Fatbike Rims
    By SmooveP in forum Fat bikes
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 10-13-2014, 09:44 AM

Members who have read this thread: 158

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.